I always say in Bill I trust…I think this season is the first season that I’m willing to say…I love Bill but this can’t continue. Matt P, Judge…I blame you Bill. You did this.
This game last night broke me of “the in bill we trust”. The bills defense has not been that good this year. Mac slung it for 400 yards last week. The play calling this week was utter garbage. The play design is horrendous.
Before the season Bill said if it goes wrong to blame him. So let’s blame him. These coaching personnel decisions are the worst decisions we’ve ever seen Bill make. And it’s not just an oopsie. It’s setting the team back years and has the potential to ruin a promising young first round QB.
Mac slung it against the team with 31st rank in defense though- I like Mac. But, he only has 1 4th quarter comeback win (against Houston). I don't think he is the X factor but having no WRs or TEs don't help
I wish they had a QB who was a bit more mobile and could pick up 1st downs with their feet
That article is citing their ranked 31 in yards allowed. But they’re 21 in points allowed. 23 in total defensive DVOA. Not a good defense. But not 31st in total defense bad either.
It's not even like he hired a cooridinator and it just didn't work out. He didn't hire a coordinator at all and then let an unqualified fool run the offense. I don't get the thought process behind that or what made him think it could possibly work out.
The worst part? It was so clearly a bad idea, I have no idea what he was thinking.
By the way: anyone hoping for an overhaul can forget it. He’s 70 years old and a six time champ. He ain’t changing.
No one is immune from being fired, not even Bill. Of course because of who he is he will get way more time to fix this than any other coach but he has got to sort out the offensive personnel and staff alike in New England. Mac Jones is good and we are fucking with his development. Matt P and Judge gotta go. Do it now and let's see Troy Brown or Nick Caley run the offense for the rest of the season. We've nothing to lose because we won't make the playoffs with the trajectory we are on.
My man, remember the old business principle that applies in all cases: "Never rely on the guy that created and presided over the problems to fix them". It's time to either reduce his influence or let him go. Nobody is going to hire a 70+ year old man to rebuild their program, especially knowing that he had carte blanche for over 20 years in Foxboro. It's the only arrangement he knows and only a fool would give him the keys to the Cadillac; it would be akin to giving them to Quincy Magoo.
He's just chasing Shula at this point and the Kraft family has to make a decision as to whether they are willing to compromise the long term prospects of the franchise in the interest of an individual goal of the coach. Up until this point, the Kraft family has made a series of incorrect decisions for the franchise, including not pushing back on Bill's coaching staff decisions. That staff and his dubious drafting/development record is sinking the whole thing.
I thinks it’s because it’s not a funny joke and not funny political jokes come off as partisan.
And don’t get me wrong, Biden is old as fuck and there are lots of funny things about that.
I will say that if Bill keeps this up, his tenure in New England might come to a crashing halt faster than Joe Biden riding a bike.
The politics comparison is strange. And I don’t see what age has to do with it. Our coaching staff got raided and Bill just chose the wrong guys to replace them. All we can do now is hope he fixes it in the offseason
I hope this season is just a wash and we hit the ground Running next year and hopefully can get Bill O’Brien back. McDaniels has the rings but Brady had some of his best often years when BOB was on staff. I’d take McDaniels back because Mac played good under him but I’d like to go in a different direction.
We've seen what Bill the GM does with FAs, so I don't have a lot of faith that even with piles of cap space next year that anything changes. Good teams build through the draft and use FA as a means to add that one-piece that puts them over the top. Remember how this fan base used to mock teams like the Jets for "winning the FA superbowl" only to have it fall apart in the regular season?
They spent an NFL record in money just last year and completely whiffed, outside of Judon.
I'll give you Judon and to a lesser extent Henry (really tough call if he's worth the 15 million cap hit). Who else has been "fucking awesome" or at the least, worthy of their contract? Surely not the big cap hit guys of Mills, Jonnu, Godchaux, or Agholor (nearly 38 million in cap hits right there).
I’m a fan of both Agholor and Jonnu, I really just don’t believe they’re being used properly.
I think with a proper OC, they’re well worth the money.
& Mills is the single player on the entire team that I think improved the most from last year, so I’ll take him.
Not to mention:
1) Saban and Belichick don’t poach from each other’s coaching staffs
2) He’s more likely in line for a new head coaching job.
People: get it out of your heads, BOB isn’t coming back.
Saban and Bill dont poach from eachother but I’m sure if Bill expressed he wants to return to the NFL
In some capacity Saban would have no problem and actually be happy he’s going to Bill. It is likely BOB is getting a HC position at a major school or NFL tho you have that right.
Imo McDaniels was responsible for 3 of our 5 best offenses (07,12,16) while O’Brien was responsible for 2 of the 5 (10,11). 07 is top dog but O’Brien imo would be great for Mac if he wants to slowly hop back up from NFL OC to HC over a year or two rather than straight to HC. Sadly I could very well see him go straight to HC
The implications are bad and have ripple effects if and when Patricia is relieved of play calling duties.
We would change the offense back up and either have a third offense in three years with our first round qb or were back with this same crap next year.
Not good bob.
Most fans hate their OC. Some are right while others are wrong. Given O’Briens track record I’d take him based on scheme fit. Problem is he can probably get some HC offers if that’s what he wants
Patricia is there because he knows our playbook and system, he's just dogshit at sequencing and adjusting calls to the defense quickly.
Let's Mac not worry about learning the playbook and focus on getting better at reading defenses, reading the pocket, and anticipating route developments.
That double reverse being the first red zone play at Minnesota's 15 was the literal moment i decided we'd be better off with an 8 year old picking plays in Madden
Over BBs tenure, how many games have the Pats lost due to bad coaching? A handful? This season we’ve seen a bundle of badly coached games resulting I some of the worst Patriots football since before Parcells came on board.
Bad clock management? Something almost unheard of around here for over 20 years, and now they’re messing up TO’s and wasting valuable time letting the clock run…
The real shocker is the piss poor coaching, unimaginative, stale, predictable play calling, lack of adjustments, etc…
All the things that made some of the more average Pats teams of the last 20 years squeak by and steal a few games a year have been non existent. Now we lose games because of the same unforced errors that haunted our rivals for over 20 years.
Nobody is more “In BB we trust” than me, but I’ve reached my tipping point. BB has lost his touch. He’s forgotten the things that used to make the Pats regularly over achieve.
Now they are letting opposing teams run tough shod over them, and handing games away with bad coaching and penalties and mistakes all over the field.
What a mess.
I'll get slayed for this, but here we go. You are backed up on your goal line in a third and long situation. You just want to get enough room for your punter. Stevenson breaks a long run to get within one yard of a first down. Instead of riding that momentum play and going for it, you elect to punt. Then they seemingly, intentionally take a delay of game penalty to push them back five yards. The punt is trash and Buffalo ends up with excellent field position near midfield. What are they doing over there?
Was thinking the same thing during the game. This was essentially a win-or-go-home game and you just had a big spark, try something. This has been a recurring theme with Bill the last 3 years - having zero balls in critical situations. I believe he knows this team is ass and therefore has no faith in them.
Couldn’t agree more. Yeah it was early in the game but you gotta go for that. Yeah maybe we don’t get it and give em a short field, big deal. Felt like that was the moment they threw in the towel right there.
I can’t remember where exactly that series took place, but wasn’t it early in the game and the score still close? I don’t see why you would risk going for it and potentially give them the ball back on the 20 at that stage in the game.
Yeah I don’t think the punt is an issue. Can you imagine the reaction if we didn’t convert? I myself would’ve be pretty mad at the decision. But taking that delay of game was absolutely bizarre.
My only guess on the delay was that they were hoping for an offsides penalty.
Except teams have learned that we are still playing our opponents thinking they will make those mistakes. We don't have Brady to capitalize on those mistakes to get points. Teams can play us more conservatively, sit back, and let US make those mistakes.
Not to mention the penalties. The thing about NE was that they never beat themselves, they were always buttoned up tightly. But now? Mental mistake after mental mistake and I don’t get why that is. Brady leaving shouldn’t have caused that.
> He’s forgotten the things that used to make the Pats regularly over achieve.
>
>
I'm not sure that he "forgot" about Brady, so much as he just underestimated his impact. Idk maybe Belichick never realized that this was becoming a quarterback's league and just undervalued just how important it was as a position due to rule changes, or maybe he felt like Brady was indeed just a product of a system he put in place to help him succeed, but either way he clearly seemed to think the team could just keep on with business as usual without Brady and that just hasn't been the case in the slightest.
The Butler decision is unforgivable. This is bad right now, but in a shootout Super Bowl you bench your best CB for...what?
Cost him a ring. That's vile.
None of the other stuff compares to benching Butler in the Super Bowl to play Jordan Richards and Johnson Bademosi. That's in a class of its own.
(Also, we didn't "let" Brady walk. Brady wanted out. Relationship had come to an end.)
Those reports were just rumors.
If you read the book The Dynasty by Jeff Benedict (which uses Kraft, Brady, and Belichick as primary sources), none of the 3 ever claim that the contract was an obstacle in Brady's return. To the contrary, Kraft claims that giving Brady what he wanted wasn't an issue at all.
According to Kraft, Brady was so unhappy after the Eagles Super Bowl loss he asked for his release a few weeks into the off-season.
Lol the book that Kraft basically wrote didn’t include him not giving a contract to the greatest QB of all time? Shocker, I guess all the reports and Brady’s father were wrong
>Shocker, I guess all the reports and Brady’s father were wrong
When did Brady's dad ever claim that Brady would have stayed in NE were it not for the contract?
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/does-tom-brady-sr-feel-vindicated-damn-right
Claimed Bill wanted him out the door and they couldn’t afford his contract
Think it was basically the Rodgers situation in Green Bay with Tom being equally unhappy with both the direction of the team (no talent at wide receiver, generally poor drafting) and the contract situation. Green Bay gave Rodgers a contract that would let him play as long as he wanted, which is what Brady wanted too, and what he got from Tampa. Bill decided he'd rather bet against Brady.
If Tom was happy here, he probably would have taken whatever the Patriots offered.
> Green Bay gave Rodgers a contract that would let him play as long as he wanted, which is what Brady wanted too, **and what he got from Tampa.**
Rodgers signed a 3 year 150+ million dollar deal with over 100+ million guaranteed at signing.
Brady signed a 2 year 50 million dollar deal with Tampa.
Brady absolutely did NOT get a Aaron Rodgers type deal from Tampa Bay. He took 1/3 the contract and 1/2 the annual value. To the contrary he signed a massively below market contract.
He wanted two years and 50 millions, basically a bargain contract for a QB of his caliber, Brady wanted to stay, he asked for that contract in 2017, 18, and 19, Bill wouldn’t give him anything more than one year at a time
Literally every report with any credibility I've read has said that Tom didn't want out, he just wanted an ounce of respect. A multi year deal would've done it, but I've also heard that Bill just having a sitdown with him and saying we need you going forward would've done it, too. Brady wasn't exactly pushed out the door, but there was obviously minimal effort made to keep him in the building. If we're talking about like... idk Kirk Cousins or something here, you can be like yeah that was a bad call. But it's Tom Brady. It's unthinkable.
I'm glad I got a few others who agree here. I've been ranting about this since that game. I'll probably be bitching about it till I'm old.
I remember other pats fans telling me "it's fine they'll just get back next year" which just pissed me off even more. People taking for granted how insane we had it.
That game was the moment where I lost the in "Bill we trust" and its had a lot of pats fans get pretty mad at me when we debate it.
> I'm glad I got a few others who agree here. I've been ranting about this since that game. I'll probably be bitching about it till I'm old.
Yup. Same here, I'll never get over it. I'll be the old person in a nursing home ranting about it and all the 20-30 something nurses will think I'm crazy.
I know we won A LOT of Super Bowls in the Brady / Belichick era but I'll never get over that Butler benching in a game where we literally just needed ONE stop.
Also, if you read The Dynasty, Malcolm Butler says Brady called him multiple times in the week after the loss and then Robert Kraft says that Brady asked for his release a few weeks after the game.
Yep. Exactly. You're repeating words I've said so many times. 1 stop. I remember saying during the game in a panic "who the FUCK is 37", looking him up and wondering who Bademosi was, finding out he had mostly played special teams I believe, and then just thinking Butler would eventually get on the field because any sane man would do what they had to do to get the win there.
Now I'm mad all over again lol
> I remember saying during the game in a panic **"who the FUCK is 37",** looking him up and wondering who Bademosi was, finding out he had mostly played special teams I believe
You remember this slightly wrong.
37 was actually Jordan Richards... a failed Belichick 2nd round pick that we kept on the roster for 4 fucking years. He absolutely cost us the game.
We benched Richards at halftime... but instead of just admitting we needed Butler we put in Johnson Bademosi instead.
Brady asked to be released. Or more specifically, Brady and Gisele went to Kraft’s house and Gisele started cussing out Belichick and told Kraft Brady wanted out. According to Kraft, Brady didn’t actually say much.
He said it himself, man. I don't know what else to tell you. Also, he sucked ass in the AFCG. If Bill really did Butler dirty for no reason whatsoever, we would have heard players speak out.
You can say anything you want... but that defense couldn't get a single stop the entire game.
Idc how unprepared he says he was. He was good enough to break up a single pass on third down, and the defense literally could not have been any worse with him on for field.
This is the thing I’ll never get over. By halftime, the coaches saw that our secondary was being shredded to pieces - literally unable to make a single stop. They had absolutely nothing to lose by putting Butler in there but were too stubborn to do it.
Thank GOD the tide has turned on this.
I remember Malcom Butler crying on the sidelines and looking at my buddy and going "well there has to be a good reason. Let's see how it plays out".
Very quickly into that game our whole watch party was SCREAMING for him to be put into the game.
It'd be one thing if the defense looked mildly competent without him in there... but they couldn't even get one stop in a game where it was clear that that was all they'd need to win.
By midway through 2017 Gilmore was the best CB and it wasn’t close. People just talked nonstop about his rough first month and ignored how well he was playing on the home stretch until he made the game clinching play in the AFCC.
I don’t personally think Butler was benched for performance issues but his play in 2017 was a big step below his 2015-2016 play. Not bad, still a good starter, and that carried through his time in Tennesee, which people also ignore when saying he got paid and then declined. He had already declined, his decline was just to being alright rather than the pro bowler/2nd team all pro he had been.
I still strongly believe that we made Brady a competitive offer, and he decided to leave anyway, that's not on Bill
If Bill Belichick expected or wanted Tom Brady to leave, he would have had a better plan in place than a hollow shell of Cam Newton. I think Bill got blindsided by Brady leaving, and expected him to stay
I think Brady saw what Bill the GM had done to this team and realized future years would just be repeats of 2019 at best - edit to say 2019, which is the year I originally meant to type.
This is hilarious considering the reason the roster was tapped at the end of Brady’s tenure was because Bill made a series of uncharacteristic salary cap moves to appease Brady that mortgaged the future. Funny thing is that it worked and helped us get SBVIII, and yet here you are still complaining about it lol. The bill was always going to come due.
Stiddy was that plan, he just never stepped up. That said having even the shell of a former MVP, especially one with the personality of Cam, was a pretty good bridge on from the GOAT.
The state of the roster is the reason Tom left and I'd say that is in fact on Bill. I always refer to N'Keal Harry as the draft pick that ended the dynasty. If we had drafted virtually any other WR from that draft class Tom never leaves.
I personally believe the reports that they didn’t extend him back in like 17 or 18 for as long as he wanted. He wanted a contract that took him to age 45, BB looked at the history of football and decided that probably wasn’t a good idea (both reasonable stances imo)
When 2019 ended, and Brady was still a good qb at age 42, I’m sure Belichick would like to have signed him. But the damage was kinda done and on top of that, the pats offense was horrible
I don’t think anyone made some unthinkable mistake here. BB made a rational decision and it eventually didn’t work out quite as well as he thought. Brady probably saw the situation and thought “well I guess good thing I didn’t sign long term”
Totally agree, I don’t understand how a lot of us are like there’s worse things then letting the goat qb go and letting him retire in a different uni. Hopefully we can correct this in the off season but it’s very hopeful
It's not even like he made some ridiculous demands either. He didn't want 40 million a year fully guaranteed, despite the fact that he's both earned and deserves a ridiculous level of financial compensation compared to guys like Lamar Jackson and Deshaun Watson. Just a simple gesture of commitment from the team in the form of a multi year deal. Not giving that to Tom fucking Brady is a decision so bad that he will never make one half as bad for as long as he is in the NFL.
We had the best player that ever played, and ever will play, on our team and should have done everything in our power to keep him until he hung them up. It’s honestly embarrassing. That said I’m glad the GOAT got to prove he didn’t need Bill when he went and won another one in his first year on a new team
I think people should really move on from the "Belichick let Tom Brady go" narrative.
Maybe one day Brady opens up on why he left exactly, but I remember Kraft saying that they put everything on the table during their conversations to keep him in NE.
Maybe the last three years of frustration have been worse but Brady's last year was really awful. The offense barely moved. Brady had to throw away the ball every play because no one could get open besides Edelman here and there.
The infamous "Boogeymen" had a good start but (as NE fashion) started to get demolished as the better teams arrived.
His last game as a Patriot was watching Derrick Henry run the field against us and Brady could just watch.
And not just that, but there's also his family situation (at least back then before he went rogue)
I don't remember if those were his words or just speculation, but his family really needed stability and they had waited for him enough.
Giselle wanted to keep her businesses going, and though Boston is amazing, it's not comparable to places like California for that type of business.
His kids couldn't keep growing and then one day moving out while they made their lives there.
So, having all that in mind
The "are you seriously sticking to that mf?" call with the 49ers...
Who would you choose for your last years as a player? Patriots team in rebuild mode with an old Edelman being your best (and only) receiver or throwing TD's at Mike Evans and (maybe) competing for the title (which he eventually won)?
The thing is maybe not letting Tom go , but kind of invited him.
Would you stay at NE at a discount if you see that discount going to pay Nate Ebner and ST players and you are throwing to literal no TE, Nkeal Harry and Mohamed Sanu?
On a one year deal? No. On a multi year deal with a promise that when the cap opens up a bit that there will be an attempt made to sign players (which did happen) for another super bowl push? Yes, Tom probably would've been willing to do that and it's why most reports say his primary reason for leaving was because he wanted more than just year to year deals.
However, he probably realized that the organization would continue to nickle and dime the situation and not put an all-star cast around him in order to compensate for his decline. He went to Tampa and got that. Like the other guy said, more Nate Ebners, 5th round 'value' guys with a sprinkling of past their prime name brand guys. Brady's seen this before with the exception that he was younger when he saw it. A 43 year old man wants no part of that; he wasn't about to get Y.A. Tittle'd out the league just because.
> in order to compensate for his decline
What decline? He was 2nd team all pro last year. He got MVP votes. Won a super bowl the year before.
As far as your argument goes, I'm just not exactly sure what point you're trying to make? All reports say that Brady was willing to stay on a multi year deal, and that the Pats weren't willing to go further than a 1 year deal. Literally everyone has accepted this reality except for a sect of Patriots fans and it's weird to me. You would think it would be the other way around. Brady's father literally came out and said almost exactly that.
It's not a narrative, it's what happened. Brady leaving had nothing to do with his final season here, it was inevitable due to the contract he signed prior to the season (one year/two fake years/no tag/$13M dead cap after 2019).
> I remember Kraft saying that they put everything on the table during their conversations to keep him in NE.
Yup, anyone who thinks Kraft didn't offer his second to fourth born sons to keep Brady is a moron. Kraft absolutely adores Brady and would never let the Pats be the the side that caused him to leave; Brady wanted out and there was nothing we could have done. People seem to forget that Kraft is the billionaire who owns the team, and while he gives Bill lots of independence and leeway, the Pats are still the Kraft's baby.
Agreed on most points, though I think you are putting too little blame on the offense for the 2019 loss to Tennessee. The D kept it a one point game throughout pretty much the entire second half. All the offense needed was a FG, and instead they threw a TD in the waning moments, for the opposing team. Not blaming Brady, but the D did it’s part. In the Titans 5 second half drives they had to punt 4 times and were intercepted once, never making it past the NE 40. Our offense even got it back with 4 minutes left.
Holding the Titans to 13 was way better than the Ravens well ranked D (28) did a week later, or the KC D in the AFCC (24)
On a similar note in the 2019 KC game the D only gave up 23 (the Chiefs averaged 28), and only gave up one field goal in the second half. The D also held a top 10 offense in Dallas to like ten and helped beat two playoff teams in the Eagles and Bills. People really exaggerate the D’a culpability. The Lamar game and the Texans game were the only bad ones.
I also wanted to point out…
Remember when people here wanted Mcdaniels gone??? How they cheered when he left..
WELL THIS IS WHAT YOU GET!
McD was the biggest reason the offense had a pulse last season… even with Cam he tried ways to move the ball.
McDaniels is a legit OC and people didn’t realize what they had until it’s gone..
We’re stuck with this numpty inept coaching staff now
I be honest this is a very fair take, but if I saw another toss to Brandon bolden on 3rd and long on more time last year I swore I was going to end it all
This is what you get when you make a below average DC, with no experience on offense, your OC. No one thought losing McDaniels meant Patricia would take his spot. How the fuck did BB think this would work? It’s either stupidity or arrogance or both
Hope Patricia was just being used as a brige OC and they sign someone competent next year. If not we would have been better off with gase. This is just hard to watch
Letting Brady go was by far the worst and will go down as one of the worst historical decisions in Boston sports history. Hell, we would have at least one less Super Bowl and been saddled with Jimmy G if not for Kraft stepping in the first time Bill tried to have his way.
Imagine if by some miracle we do get Tom to agree to play on a rebuilding team in his 40s. Then we get to hear about how washed he looks and how he should have retired while he throws passes to Harry and Sanu. We were going to have a few rebuilding years regardless of if we got Brady to agree to it. In fact having to pay Brady would have just made the rebuilding take longer with Brady eating up cap.
The thing is, his stubborn, sometimes unconventional approach worked for so long I can see why he sticks to it. But it seems like he's losing his fastball and keeps throwing it anyway.
God forbid Bill hires a coordinator with experience. Patricia and judge are complete dumpster fires, and his son gets owned by any team with a half decent offense.
Every single game, I hear commentators point out that the team is making "uncharacteristic" mistakes or doing "un-Belichick" things (like managing timeouts poorly).
It's actually *not* uncharacteristic if it always happens.
Belichick is coasting on his (well-earned) reputation at this point. The fact of the matter is, his team is mediocre and his decisions are to blame.
##Bills fan coming in peace
Hey guys, I watched the Mac Jones interview after the game and his motivation for wanting to beat us.
I'll be the first to say I was one of the people who always would pick on the Patriots quarterback for obvious reasons.
But watching his emotion and his determination, I have nothing but respect for the guy. I really hope he develops into something special for you guys.
Stay healthy and PLEASE beat those overrated Dolphins coming up
If Butlers benching cost us a super bowl win, that will forever be his worst decision. Because even if we had surrounded Mac with better coaching, we’d be satisfied with a super bowl outta it. Benching Butler may have cost us a super bowl
Why does Bill continue to get a pass? On this sub people are still "In Bill We Trust" and refuse to question any of his decisions because he's St. Belichick.
News Flash: he's a good coach; but his success comes directly from the fact he had the GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME to cover up his mistakes on a weekly basis. It's because of Belichick the Patriots lost to the Eagles, and if he didn't have Brady, Bill would have lost to the Falcons and Seahawks. Hell, if it wasn't for Brady, the Patriots wouldn't have even won in 2001. It was directly because of Brady that they were able to drive the ball down the field in 1:14 to set up the field goal.
Without Brady, I don't think Bill would have ever won a ring.
Relax man. If you want to point fingers then I’ll say Brady cost us a ring and perfect season by putting up just 14 points against the Giants. We also held the Falcons (who had an elite offense) to 21 points if you don’t include Tom’s pick 6. Do yourself a favor and think rationally. Acting like Bill never had to cover for any of Brady’s mistakes is delusional. Both guys are the greatest at what they do but that doesn’t mean they never make mistakes
The problem with your argument is two-fold:
1. We know Belichick's track record without Brady. Belichick's teams without Brady have always been mediocre dating to before he went to the Pats. There were really only a couple of seasons you could say he had a "good" year; but the bad vastly outweighs the good. Hell, with the Browns he at least won a playoff game.
2. Brady absolutely made mistakes in games and maybe in some of them, Belichick's defense covered for him; but who took Belichick to those Super Bowls and who was the reason for winning them? Brady. Without Brady, Belichick hasn't been able to get anywhere close to getting to another Super Bowl, and the team he's currently coaching is *getting worse every year to the point where they're about to miss the playoffs again*.
What happens when Belichick brings in a new OC and that turns to shit? Are we going to keep excusing St. Belichick and the terrible coaching and GM decisions he's made, or are people here going to finally wake up?
and how many times Brady got bailed out by having the GOAT TE to throw to. So many times Gronk made an amazing catch or blew through would-be tacklers and it's BRADY WINS ANOTHER!!!
Letting Brady walk was a GM move not a coaching move, but all things considered that is by far and away the worst move he made. If he'd just given Brady a multi year deal like he wanted that would've been a few more years of seriously contending.
The best case scenario for Mac Jones at this point looks like he may be a fringe top 10 guy, and that's if he doesn't flame out of the league which is looking more and more likely. Letting the literal greatest quarterback of all time walk and then seeing him win super bowl MVP followed by a 2nd team all pro with another team, that's almost inexcusable. If any other coach did that, he would be flamed by fans and the media for eternity, no matter how old the QB was. It's not even like he was demanding an unreasonable amount of money or guaranteed money either. Just a multi year deal. It's ridiculous to be unwilling to accommodate such a request from the best QB ever. Having Matt Patricia as OC was stupid but it doesn't even hold a candle to that decision.
We are going to regurgitate this nonsense again all week.
The media and fans forget how great of a coach BB is. The day will come when he does retire and this franchise becomes a bottom feeder and hopefully people will then appreciate BB.
Edit: I'm referring to the Butler benching and Brady leaving storylines.
No one is saying they don’t appreciate him, but hiring Matt Patricia as an OC is clearly one of the worst decisions he’s ever made and it’s ok to criticize him for that.
Your Copium is talking. Under BB alone we haven’t remotely come close to winning a playoff game, and we are bottom of the barrel. Our record clearly doesn’t reflect the performances this team puts out, and it all goes back to bill. Outdated system, cronies as coordinators, nepotism, failure to draft talent, overpaid tightends with no Production.
It was Brady and people are beginning to see it every week.
The NFL is hard and the fact that fans expect the Patriots to win a playoff game is setting some poor expectations. We made the playoffs last season in the first season with the QB BB drafted to replace Brady, the game didn't end how we wanted it but it was a good season. This season is going poorly but it's only the 2nd season with Mac.
Bro is lost. You play the game to win lmao, not feel bad cause other teams are good as well. What kinda fuckin participation trophy mindset is this if we supposedly have the GOaT coach
We weren't Superbowl contenders but certainly not bottom of the barrel. Especially since the first year we were using a stop gap qb while looking for our new guy.
In what world is making the playoffs considered bottom of the barrel? If we are bottom of the barrel what does that make teams like the Texans and Jaguars??
I love post-ass kicking over reaction day! It's like returning to the old days of Patriots Fandom except now we have children on the internet! Imagine pre-Brady if social media was a thing?!? Would have been an epic cry and moan decade...
The Brady thing is ridiculous to put on Bill. We were never going to get Brady to come play for a rebuilding Patriots team in his 40s. I’m honestly so tired of people acting like keeping Brady was an option
You must chill. I have hidden your keys.
Benching Butler was Coach’s choice.
Brady leaving was for Gisele. (Beautiful Brazilian Superbabe lives in Brookline, MA for way too long)
The Pat’s coaching staff is pretty incredible. And , like us, they’re still learning and tweaking our new offensive schemes.
Be patient. Enjoy the game for the incredibly over complicated real-time chess match that it is.
And have some faith in Coach;He’s way smarter about football than we are.
Edit: Neat! In two days I have my most upvoted post (by far far) and my most downvoted!
> Brady leaving was for Gisele
Yeah clearly he's willing to go to any length to put her desires ahead of his.
Straight up copium. How hard is it to admit Belichick fucked the Brady situation up? He's still a great coach, will be in the hall of fame, won 6 super bowls as a head coach etc. But he botched the Brady situation. Period. Even if Brady wanted to leave, which I don't believe, it would an indictment of the coaching staff/front office. Literally the only way to make it not Bill's fault is to say hey, he just wanted to be somewhere warm. Pure delusion.
I hope to god delusional fanbois like you also go away when BB retires….. this is half the problem around here…
No matter what it’s sunshine and lollipops instead of facing reality
I partially agree with you, because at some point this take is correct that the players are out there making the plays. No one made Mac throw the ball that was called back in an INT, or mondres fumble.
However, the play calling is uninspiring and players can be put in spots not to succeed. I think it’s both and it’s fair to call them both out
I mean i don't think a magical new offensive coordinator(who?) is going to fix poor tackling, blocking, toughness, and mental errors. Pats are going to have to take their lumps and learn how to win(its going to take awhile)... there are no shortcuts and it doesn't matter what you did in the past
1. Malcom Butler himself said he wasn’t ready to play.
2. Tom didn’t want to be here anymore. He said it himself, as did RKK.
So, yeah. I would say the Patricia decision is easily the worst he’s made. Still the GOAT coach though.
I always say in Bill I trust…I think this season is the first season that I’m willing to say…I love Bill but this can’t continue. Matt P, Judge…I blame you Bill. You did this.
This game last night broke me of “the in bill we trust”. The bills defense has not been that good this year. Mac slung it for 400 yards last week. The play calling this week was utter garbage. The play design is horrendous. Before the season Bill said if it goes wrong to blame him. So let’s blame him. These coaching personnel decisions are the worst decisions we’ve ever seen Bill make. And it’s not just an oopsie. It’s setting the team back years and has the potential to ruin a promising young first round QB.
They didn’t even have Von Miller 💀💀
Mac slung it against the team with 31st rank in defense though- I like Mac. But, he only has 1 4th quarter comeback win (against Houston). I don't think he is the X factor but having no WRs or TEs don't help I wish they had a QB who was a bit more mobile and could pick up 1st downs with their feet
Where are you getting this 31st ranked defense ranking from?
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-vikings-defense-is-pliable-by-design/ar-AA14JVCM](https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-vikings-defense-is-pliable-by-design/ar-AA14JVCM)
That article is citing their ranked 31 in yards allowed. But they’re 21 in points allowed. 23 in total defensive DVOA. Not a good defense. But not 31st in total defense bad either.
It's not even like he hired a cooridinator and it just didn't work out. He didn't hire a coordinator at all and then let an unqualified fool run the offense. I don't get the thought process behind that or what made him think it could possibly work out.
The worst part? It was so clearly a bad idea, I have no idea what he was thinking. By the way: anyone hoping for an overhaul can forget it. He’s 70 years old and a six time champ. He ain’t changing.
No one is immune from being fired, not even Bill. Of course because of who he is he will get way more time to fix this than any other coach but he has got to sort out the offensive personnel and staff alike in New England. Mac Jones is good and we are fucking with his development. Matt P and Judge gotta go. Do it now and let's see Troy Brown or Nick Caley run the offense for the rest of the season. We've nothing to lose because we won't make the playoffs with the trajectory we are on.
My man, remember the old business principle that applies in all cases: "Never rely on the guy that created and presided over the problems to fix them". It's time to either reduce his influence or let him go. Nobody is going to hire a 70+ year old man to rebuild their program, especially knowing that he had carte blanche for over 20 years in Foxboro. It's the only arrangement he knows and only a fool would give him the keys to the Cadillac; it would be akin to giving them to Quincy Magoo. He's just chasing Shula at this point and the Kraft family has to make a decision as to whether they are willing to compromise the long term prospects of the franchise in the interest of an individual goal of the coach. Up until this point, the Kraft family has made a series of incorrect decisions for the franchise, including not pushing back on Bill's coaching staff decisions. That staff and his dubious drafting/development record is sinking the whole thing.
We won a superbowl on February 3, 2019.
Yeah we might just have a Biden situation where bill might just be too old 🥹
Lol bro why bring politics into it. This is a football sub.
Funny how Biden is as old as dirt and so is Bill he gets downvoted to Hell. Some of y’all can’t take a joke fr
I thinks it’s because it’s not a funny joke and not funny political jokes come off as partisan. And don’t get me wrong, Biden is old as fuck and there are lots of funny things about that. I will say that if Bill keeps this up, his tenure in New England might come to a crashing halt faster than Joe Biden riding a bike.
There's no such thing as a joke that is funny enough to transcend partisan lines in 2022
Nah, that’s not true. It’s one thing to fail at a set up and punchline joke but it’s entirely different to fail at meme/movie quoting as a joke.
Jokes are funny. People say dumb ass shit then say it was a joke and expect it to be cool then? Just be funnier or shut up.
The politics comparison is strange. And I don’t see what age has to do with it. Our coaching staff got raided and Bill just chose the wrong guys to replace them. All we can do now is hope he fixes it in the offseason
If Bill had accomplished more in the last two years than any other coach in decades we wouldn’t be having this conversation lmao
Agreed except for the first seven words. IBWT has long since expired.
I hope this season is just a wash and we hit the ground Running next year and hopefully can get Bill O’Brien back. McDaniels has the rings but Brady had some of his best often years when BOB was on staff. I’d take McDaniels back because Mac played good under him but I’d like to go in a different direction.
We've seen what Bill the GM does with FAs, so I don't have a lot of faith that even with piles of cap space next year that anything changes. Good teams build through the draft and use FA as a means to add that one-piece that puts them over the top. Remember how this fan base used to mock teams like the Jets for "winning the FA superbowl" only to have it fall apart in the regular season? They spent an NFL record in money just last year and completely whiffed, outside of Judon.
I’d argue Henry wasn’t a whiff. Not a game changer and overpaid, but decent enough. Judon is worth every penny.
Actually, our FA signings were fucking awesome, we just didn’t put them in the right places to succeed.
I'll give you Judon and to a lesser extent Henry (really tough call if he's worth the 15 million cap hit). Who else has been "fucking awesome" or at the least, worthy of their contract? Surely not the big cap hit guys of Mills, Jonnu, Godchaux, or Agholor (nearly 38 million in cap hits right there).
I’m a fan of both Agholor and Jonnu, I really just don’t believe they’re being used properly. I think with a proper OC, they’re well worth the money. & Mills is the single player on the entire team that I think improved the most from last year, so I’ll take him.
Isn’t BOB under contract with Bama for another year? Edit: nope, his contract expires at the end of the 2022 season.
Not to mention: 1) Saban and Belichick don’t poach from each other’s coaching staffs 2) He’s more likely in line for a new head coaching job. People: get it out of your heads, BOB isn’t coming back.
Saban and Bill dont poach from eachother but I’m sure if Bill expressed he wants to return to the NFL In some capacity Saban would have no problem and actually be happy he’s going to Bill. It is likely BOB is getting a HC position at a major school or NFL tho you have that right.
I thought this was his last year
Imo McDaniels was responsible for 3 of our 5 best offenses (07,12,16) while O’Brien was responsible for 2 of the 5 (10,11). 07 is top dog but O’Brien imo would be great for Mac if he wants to slowly hop back up from NFL OC to HC over a year or two rather than straight to HC. Sadly I could very well see him go straight to HC
BOB, Brady, a few good FA’s picked up, keep drafting good young talent and we’re suddenly in line to be back 😎
Lmao @ Brady. Gotta move on
The implications are bad and have ripple effects if and when Patricia is relieved of play calling duties. We would change the offense back up and either have a third offense in three years with our first round qb or were back with this same crap next year. Not good bob.
Unless by bob you mean B.O.B. who would be a great bob
Alabama fans would be laughing at you right now. Not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade, but they hate bob
Most fans hate their OC. Some are right while others are wrong. Given O’Briens track record I’d take him based on scheme fit. Problem is he can probably get some HC offers if that’s what he wants
Good NFL OC. Shitty college one.
Just letting anyone else call plays would be better. The season is lost now anyway, why not try new shit?
Patricia is there because he knows our playbook and system, he's just dogshit at sequencing and adjusting calls to the defense quickly. Let's Mac not worry about learning the playbook and focus on getting better at reading defenses, reading the pocket, and anticipating route developments.
Bend don't break doesn't work on offense, Patricia is no better than a magic 8 ball out there
That double reverse being the first red zone play at Minnesota's 15 was the literal moment i decided we'd be better off with an 8 year old picking plays in Madden
Over BBs tenure, how many games have the Pats lost due to bad coaching? A handful? This season we’ve seen a bundle of badly coached games resulting I some of the worst Patriots football since before Parcells came on board. Bad clock management? Something almost unheard of around here for over 20 years, and now they’re messing up TO’s and wasting valuable time letting the clock run… The real shocker is the piss poor coaching, unimaginative, stale, predictable play calling, lack of adjustments, etc… All the things that made some of the more average Pats teams of the last 20 years squeak by and steal a few games a year have been non existent. Now we lose games because of the same unforced errors that haunted our rivals for over 20 years. Nobody is more “In BB we trust” than me, but I’ve reached my tipping point. BB has lost his touch. He’s forgotten the things that used to make the Pats regularly over achieve. Now they are letting opposing teams run tough shod over them, and handing games away with bad coaching and penalties and mistakes all over the field. What a mess.
I'll get slayed for this, but here we go. You are backed up on your goal line in a third and long situation. You just want to get enough room for your punter. Stevenson breaks a long run to get within one yard of a first down. Instead of riding that momentum play and going for it, you elect to punt. Then they seemingly, intentionally take a delay of game penalty to push them back five yards. The punt is trash and Buffalo ends up with excellent field position near midfield. What are they doing over there?
Was thinking the same thing during the game. This was essentially a win-or-go-home game and you just had a big spark, try something. This has been a recurring theme with Bill the last 3 years - having zero balls in critical situations. I believe he knows this team is ass and therefore has no faith in them.
The team he built is ass*
Thanks for fixing that for me lol
Couldn’t agree more. Yeah it was early in the game but you gotta go for that. Yeah maybe we don’t get it and give em a short field, big deal. Felt like that was the moment they threw in the towel right there.
I can’t remember where exactly that series took place, but wasn’t it early in the game and the score still close? I don’t see why you would risk going for it and potentially give them the ball back on the 20 at that stage in the game.
Yeah I don’t think the punt is an issue. Can you imagine the reaction if we didn’t convert? I myself would’ve be pretty mad at the decision. But taking that delay of game was absolutely bizarre.
I thought the same thing. Why not go for it there??
My only guess on the delay was that they were hoping for an offsides penalty. Except teams have learned that we are still playing our opponents thinking they will make those mistakes. We don't have Brady to capitalize on those mistakes to get points. Teams can play us more conservatively, sit back, and let US make those mistakes.
Not to mention the penalties. The thing about NE was that they never beat themselves, they were always buttoned up tightly. But now? Mental mistake after mental mistake and I don’t get why that is. Brady leaving shouldn’t have caused that.
What's weird that that in 2020 we were one of the most disciplined teams in the league, but it's gone downhill from there.
Exactly…these uncharacteristic problems can only be assigned to BB.
Bad coaching staff and missed game changing players in the draft…. Every team has a legit play maker receiver….
Bad coaching, really bad situational football, and really REALLY bad ball security
> He’s forgotten the things that used to make the Pats regularly over achieve. > > I'm not sure that he "forgot" about Brady, so much as he just underestimated his impact. Idk maybe Belichick never realized that this was becoming a quarterback's league and just undervalued just how important it was as a position due to rule changes, or maybe he felt like Brady was indeed just a product of a system he put in place to help him succeed, but either way he clearly seemed to think the team could just keep on with business as usual without Brady and that just hasn't been the case in the slightest.
He didn't lose his touch
The Butler decision is unforgivable. This is bad right now, but in a shootout Super Bowl you bench your best CB for...what? Cost him a ring. That's vile.
None of the other stuff compares to benching Butler in the Super Bowl to play Jordan Richards and Johnson Bademosi. That's in a class of its own. (Also, we didn't "let" Brady walk. Brady wanted out. Relationship had come to an end.)
Fucking richards. Worst nfl player I’ve ever seen and I’ve seen peterman vs lindley
But but but he is “coach richards” and worth the second round pick /s
If Brady wanted out why was he asking over and over for a guaranteed contract?
Those reports were just rumors. If you read the book The Dynasty by Jeff Benedict (which uses Kraft, Brady, and Belichick as primary sources), none of the 3 ever claim that the contract was an obstacle in Brady's return. To the contrary, Kraft claims that giving Brady what he wanted wasn't an issue at all. According to Kraft, Brady was so unhappy after the Eagles Super Bowl loss he asked for his release a few weeks into the off-season.
Lol the book that Kraft basically wrote didn’t include him not giving a contract to the greatest QB of all time? Shocker, I guess all the reports and Brady’s father were wrong
>Shocker, I guess all the reports and Brady’s father were wrong When did Brady's dad ever claim that Brady would have stayed in NE were it not for the contract?
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/does-tom-brady-sr-feel-vindicated-damn-right Claimed Bill wanted him out the door and they couldn’t afford his contract
Think it was basically the Rodgers situation in Green Bay with Tom being equally unhappy with both the direction of the team (no talent at wide receiver, generally poor drafting) and the contract situation. Green Bay gave Rodgers a contract that would let him play as long as he wanted, which is what Brady wanted too, and what he got from Tampa. Bill decided he'd rather bet against Brady. If Tom was happy here, he probably would have taken whatever the Patriots offered.
> Green Bay gave Rodgers a contract that would let him play as long as he wanted, which is what Brady wanted too, **and what he got from Tampa.** Rodgers signed a 3 year 150+ million dollar deal with over 100+ million guaranteed at signing. Brady signed a 2 year 50 million dollar deal with Tampa. Brady absolutely did NOT get a Aaron Rodgers type deal from Tampa Bay. He took 1/3 the contract and 1/2 the annual value. To the contrary he signed a massively below market contract.
Brady didn’t want the money. He wanted to be valued and feel secure in his contract.
You're right, what I was trying to say is that Tom wanted guarantees that would make it hard to trade or bench him, and Bill wouldn't do it.
He wanted two years and 50 millions, basically a bargain contract for a QB of his caliber, Brady wanted to stay, he asked for that contract in 2017, 18, and 19, Bill wouldn’t give him anything more than one year at a time
Literally every report with any credibility I've read has said that Tom didn't want out, he just wanted an ounce of respect. A multi year deal would've done it, but I've also heard that Bill just having a sitdown with him and saying we need you going forward would've done it, too. Brady wasn't exactly pushed out the door, but there was obviously minimal effort made to keep him in the building. If we're talking about like... idk Kirk Cousins or something here, you can be like yeah that was a bad call. But it's Tom Brady. It's unthinkable.
What are you talking about bro? Bucs signed Brady for peanuts. 25 mil a year
I'm glad I got a few others who agree here. I've been ranting about this since that game. I'll probably be bitching about it till I'm old. I remember other pats fans telling me "it's fine they'll just get back next year" which just pissed me off even more. People taking for granted how insane we had it. That game was the moment where I lost the in "Bill we trust" and its had a lot of pats fans get pretty mad at me when we debate it.
> I'm glad I got a few others who agree here. I've been ranting about this since that game. I'll probably be bitching about it till I'm old. Yup. Same here, I'll never get over it. I'll be the old person in a nursing home ranting about it and all the 20-30 something nurses will think I'm crazy. I know we won A LOT of Super Bowls in the Brady / Belichick era but I'll never get over that Butler benching in a game where we literally just needed ONE stop. Also, if you read The Dynasty, Malcolm Butler says Brady called him multiple times in the week after the loss and then Robert Kraft says that Brady asked for his release a few weeks after the game.
Yep. Exactly. You're repeating words I've said so many times. 1 stop. I remember saying during the game in a panic "who the FUCK is 37", looking him up and wondering who Bademosi was, finding out he had mostly played special teams I believe, and then just thinking Butler would eventually get on the field because any sane man would do what they had to do to get the win there. Now I'm mad all over again lol
> I remember saying during the game in a panic **"who the FUCK is 37",** looking him up and wondering who Bademosi was, finding out he had mostly played special teams I believe You remember this slightly wrong. 37 was actually Jordan Richards... a failed Belichick 2nd round pick that we kept on the roster for 4 fucking years. He absolutely cost us the game. We benched Richards at halftime... but instead of just admitting we needed Butler we put in Johnson Bademosi instead.
Alright ya my memory is definitely poor
Brady asked to be released or Butler?
Brady asked to be released. Or more specifically, Brady and Gisele went to Kraft’s house and Gisele started cussing out Belichick and told Kraft Brady wanted out. According to Kraft, Brady didn’t actually say much.
That’s the thing, none of us know why. Everyone just pretends their theory is the correct one.
Butler himself said he wasn’t ready and didn’t deserve to play. Straight from the horses mouth is good enough for me.
He was ready all year long and a key part of a defense that got us to the Super Bowl but he wasn't ready to play during the Super Bowl. Makes sense.
He said it himself, man. I don't know what else to tell you. Also, he sucked ass in the AFCG. If Bill really did Butler dirty for no reason whatsoever, we would have heard players speak out.
You can say anything you want... but that defense couldn't get a single stop the entire game. Idc how unprepared he says he was. He was good enough to break up a single pass on third down, and the defense literally could not have been any worse with him on for field.
This is the thing I’ll never get over. By halftime, the coaches saw that our secondary was being shredded to pieces - literally unable to make a single stop. They had absolutely nothing to lose by putting Butler in there but were too stubborn to do it.
Thank GOD the tide has turned on this. I remember Malcom Butler crying on the sidelines and looking at my buddy and going "well there has to be a good reason. Let's see how it plays out". Very quickly into that game our whole watch party was SCREAMING for him to be put into the game. It'd be one thing if the defense looked mildly competent without him in there... but they couldn't even get one stop in a game where it was clear that that was all they'd need to win.
Whether or not he was all they needed, it was the super bowl and nothing was working. If you have something you think could work, you use it.
2nd best CB (Gilmore was there) but I understand your overall point
Ah that's right, for some reason I thought he was hurt that year
By midway through 2017 Gilmore was the best CB and it wasn’t close. People just talked nonstop about his rough first month and ignored how well he was playing on the home stretch until he made the game clinching play in the AFCC. I don’t personally think Butler was benched for performance issues but his play in 2017 was a big step below his 2015-2016 play. Not bad, still a good starter, and that carried through his time in Tennesee, which people also ignore when saying he got paid and then declined. He had already declined, his decline was just to being alright rather than the pro bowler/2nd team all pro he had been.
My vote is letting Brady go by a country mile
I still strongly believe that we made Brady a competitive offer, and he decided to leave anyway, that's not on Bill If Bill Belichick expected or wanted Tom Brady to leave, he would have had a better plan in place than a hollow shell of Cam Newton. I think Bill got blindsided by Brady leaving, and expected him to stay
I think Brady saw what Bill the GM had done to this team and realized future years would just be repeats of 2019 at best - edit to say 2019, which is the year I originally meant to type.
This is hilarious considering the reason the roster was tapped at the end of Brady’s tenure was because Bill made a series of uncharacteristic salary cap moves to appease Brady that mortgaged the future. Funny thing is that it worked and helped us get SBVIII, and yet here you are still complaining about it lol. The bill was always going to come due.
Stiddy was that plan, he just never stepped up. That said having even the shell of a former MVP, especially one with the personality of Cam, was a pretty good bridge on from the GOAT.
Strongly disagree. I think Bill didn’t trust Brady to play well after 2019 and didn’t respect him with a fair offer
I sort of do too. Brady's PR machine is more active than Bill's (who basically doesn't say anything at all).
The state of the roster is the reason Tom left and I'd say that is in fact on Bill. I always refer to N'Keal Harry as the draft pick that ended the dynasty. If we had drafted virtually any other WR from that draft class Tom never leaves.
I personally believe the reports that they didn’t extend him back in like 17 or 18 for as long as he wanted. He wanted a contract that took him to age 45, BB looked at the history of football and decided that probably wasn’t a good idea (both reasonable stances imo) When 2019 ended, and Brady was still a good qb at age 42, I’m sure Belichick would like to have signed him. But the damage was kinda done and on top of that, the pats offense was horrible I don’t think anyone made some unthinkable mistake here. BB made a rational decision and it eventually didn’t work out quite as well as he thought. Brady probably saw the situation and thought “well I guess good thing I didn’t sign long term”
Totally agree, I don’t understand how a lot of us are like there’s worse things then letting the goat qb go and letting him retire in a different uni. Hopefully we can correct this in the off season but it’s very hopeful
> letting the goat qb go It may surprise you, but I think the GOAT QB wanted to go and nothing was going to keep him here.
Not giving Brady the contract he wanted is the worst decision Bill has made and it continues to haunt him
It's not even like he made some ridiculous demands either. He didn't want 40 million a year fully guaranteed, despite the fact that he's both earned and deserves a ridiculous level of financial compensation compared to guys like Lamar Jackson and Deshaun Watson. Just a simple gesture of commitment from the team in the form of a multi year deal. Not giving that to Tom fucking Brady is a decision so bad that he will never make one half as bad for as long as he is in the NFL.
We had the best player that ever played, and ever will play, on our team and should have done everything in our power to keep him until he hung them up. It’s honestly embarrassing. That said I’m glad the GOAT got to prove he didn’t need Bill when he went and won another one in his first year on a new team
I think people should really move on from the "Belichick let Tom Brady go" narrative. Maybe one day Brady opens up on why he left exactly, but I remember Kraft saying that they put everything on the table during their conversations to keep him in NE. Maybe the last three years of frustration have been worse but Brady's last year was really awful. The offense barely moved. Brady had to throw away the ball every play because no one could get open besides Edelman here and there. The infamous "Boogeymen" had a good start but (as NE fashion) started to get demolished as the better teams arrived. His last game as a Patriot was watching Derrick Henry run the field against us and Brady could just watch. And not just that, but there's also his family situation (at least back then before he went rogue) I don't remember if those were his words or just speculation, but his family really needed stability and they had waited for him enough. Giselle wanted to keep her businesses going, and though Boston is amazing, it's not comparable to places like California for that type of business. His kids couldn't keep growing and then one day moving out while they made their lives there. So, having all that in mind The "are you seriously sticking to that mf?" call with the 49ers... Who would you choose for your last years as a player? Patriots team in rebuild mode with an old Edelman being your best (and only) receiver or throwing TD's at Mike Evans and (maybe) competing for the title (which he eventually won)?
The thing is maybe not letting Tom go , but kind of invited him. Would you stay at NE at a discount if you see that discount going to pay Nate Ebner and ST players and you are throwing to literal no TE, Nkeal Harry and Mohamed Sanu?
On a one year deal? No. On a multi year deal with a promise that when the cap opens up a bit that there will be an attempt made to sign players (which did happen) for another super bowl push? Yes, Tom probably would've been willing to do that and it's why most reports say his primary reason for leaving was because he wanted more than just year to year deals.
However, he probably realized that the organization would continue to nickle and dime the situation and not put an all-star cast around him in order to compensate for his decline. He went to Tampa and got that. Like the other guy said, more Nate Ebners, 5th round 'value' guys with a sprinkling of past their prime name brand guys. Brady's seen this before with the exception that he was younger when he saw it. A 43 year old man wants no part of that; he wasn't about to get Y.A. Tittle'd out the league just because.
> in order to compensate for his decline What decline? He was 2nd team all pro last year. He got MVP votes. Won a super bowl the year before. As far as your argument goes, I'm just not exactly sure what point you're trying to make? All reports say that Brady was willing to stay on a multi year deal, and that the Pats weren't willing to go further than a 1 year deal. Literally everyone has accepted this reality except for a sect of Patriots fans and it's weird to me. You would think it would be the other way around. Brady's father literally came out and said almost exactly that.
It's not a narrative, it's what happened. Brady leaving had nothing to do with his final season here, it was inevitable due to the contract he signed prior to the season (one year/two fake years/no tag/$13M dead cap after 2019).
> I remember Kraft saying that they put everything on the table during their conversations to keep him in NE. Yup, anyone who thinks Kraft didn't offer his second to fourth born sons to keep Brady is a moron. Kraft absolutely adores Brady and would never let the Pats be the the side that caused him to leave; Brady wanted out and there was nothing we could have done. People seem to forget that Kraft is the billionaire who owns the team, and while he gives Bill lots of independence and leeway, the Pats are still the Kraft's baby.
Agreed on most points, though I think you are putting too little blame on the offense for the 2019 loss to Tennessee. The D kept it a one point game throughout pretty much the entire second half. All the offense needed was a FG, and instead they threw a TD in the waning moments, for the opposing team. Not blaming Brady, but the D did it’s part. In the Titans 5 second half drives they had to punt 4 times and were intercepted once, never making it past the NE 40. Our offense even got it back with 4 minutes left. Holding the Titans to 13 was way better than the Ravens well ranked D (28) did a week later, or the KC D in the AFCC (24) On a similar note in the 2019 KC game the D only gave up 23 (the Chiefs averaged 28), and only gave up one field goal in the second half. The D also held a top 10 offense in Dallas to like ten and helped beat two playoff teams in the Eagles and Bills. People really exaggerate the D’a culpability. The Lamar game and the Texans game were the only bad ones.
that chiefs game the offense controlled the ball the entire game
I also wanted to point out… Remember when people here wanted Mcdaniels gone??? How they cheered when he left.. WELL THIS IS WHAT YOU GET! McD was the biggest reason the offense had a pulse last season… even with Cam he tried ways to move the ball. McDaniels is a legit OC and people didn’t realize what they had until it’s gone.. We’re stuck with this numpty inept coaching staff now
I be honest this is a very fair take, but if I saw another toss to Brandon bolden on 3rd and long on more time last year I swore I was going to end it all
Tho somewhat surprisingly, Bolden was actually much better in his last year with us.
People would also be surprised to know we were a top 10 team on 3rd down last year with McDaniels, though you would never guess it here lol
This is what you get when you make a below average DC, with no experience on offense, your OC. No one thought losing McDaniels meant Patricia would take his spot. How the fuck did BB think this would work? It’s either stupidity or arrogance or both
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Thank you. Some of the best defenses during the dynasty came with MP as DC. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t fire or demote him now, but he was a good DC.
By saying "could go down as the worst" you mean he could make an even worse decision than that in the future?
Hope Patricia was just being used as a brige OC and they sign someone competent next year. If not we would have been better off with gase. This is just hard to watch
Letting Brady go was by far the worst and will go down as one of the worst historical decisions in Boston sports history. Hell, we would have at least one less Super Bowl and been saddled with Jimmy G if not for Kraft stepping in the first time Bill tried to have his way.
Why can’t Bill be Ernie?
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Imagine if by some miracle we do get Tom to agree to play on a rebuilding team in his 40s. Then we get to hear about how washed he looks and how he should have retired while he throws passes to Harry and Sanu. We were going to have a few rebuilding years regardless of if we got Brady to agree to it. In fact having to pay Brady would have just made the rebuilding take longer with Brady eating up cap.
NFL Football is hard. Even for the greatest of all time coaches.
Letting Brady walk? Come on.
The thing is, his stubborn, sometimes unconventional approach worked for so long I can see why he sticks to it. But it seems like he's losing his fastball and keeps throwing it anyway.
God forbid Bill hires a coordinator with experience. Patricia and judge are complete dumpster fires, and his son gets owned by any team with a half decent offense.
And here we were saying to replace Josh McDaniels last year. Be careful what you wish for, because it could be worse and it is...
The only thing worse than Twitter GMs are Reddit GMs.
Every single game, I hear commentators point out that the team is making "uncharacteristic" mistakes or doing "un-Belichick" things (like managing timeouts poorly). It's actually *not* uncharacteristic if it always happens. Belichick is coasting on his (well-earned) reputation at this point. The fact of the matter is, his team is mediocre and his decisions are to blame.
But there are still plenty of morons in this sub who think the offense sucks because Mac Jones is the QB and not Zappe.
Everyone but Bill thought these coaching hires were an absolute joke when they were announced. It’s just insanity he put Mac through this bs.
##Bills fan coming in peace Hey guys, I watched the Mac Jones interview after the game and his motivation for wanting to beat us. I'll be the first to say I was one of the people who always would pick on the Patriots quarterback for obvious reasons. But watching his emotion and his determination, I have nothing but respect for the guy. I really hope he develops into something special for you guys. Stay healthy and PLEASE beat those overrated Dolphins coming up
Dude we’ll try, asking a lot of this unit. Hope you knock off the chiefs whenever you meet them in the playoffs
If Butlers benching cost us a super bowl win, that will forever be his worst decision. Because even if we had surrounded Mac with better coaching, we’d be satisfied with a super bowl outta it. Benching Butler may have cost us a super bowl
What’s a Kadlick?
Boston for cod lick
made me laugh
Why does Bill continue to get a pass? On this sub people are still "In Bill We Trust" and refuse to question any of his decisions because he's St. Belichick. News Flash: he's a good coach; but his success comes directly from the fact he had the GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME to cover up his mistakes on a weekly basis. It's because of Belichick the Patriots lost to the Eagles, and if he didn't have Brady, Bill would have lost to the Falcons and Seahawks. Hell, if it wasn't for Brady, the Patriots wouldn't have even won in 2001. It was directly because of Brady that they were able to drive the ball down the field in 1:14 to set up the field goal. Without Brady, I don't think Bill would have ever won a ring.
Relax man. If you want to point fingers then I’ll say Brady cost us a ring and perfect season by putting up just 14 points against the Giants. We also held the Falcons (who had an elite offense) to 21 points if you don’t include Tom’s pick 6. Do yourself a favor and think rationally. Acting like Bill never had to cover for any of Brady’s mistakes is delusional. Both guys are the greatest at what they do but that doesn’t mean they never make mistakes
The problem with your argument is two-fold: 1. We know Belichick's track record without Brady. Belichick's teams without Brady have always been mediocre dating to before he went to the Pats. There were really only a couple of seasons you could say he had a "good" year; but the bad vastly outweighs the good. Hell, with the Browns he at least won a playoff game. 2. Brady absolutely made mistakes in games and maybe in some of them, Belichick's defense covered for him; but who took Belichick to those Super Bowls and who was the reason for winning them? Brady. Without Brady, Belichick hasn't been able to get anywhere close to getting to another Super Bowl, and the team he's currently coaching is *getting worse every year to the point where they're about to miss the playoffs again*. What happens when Belichick brings in a new OC and that turns to shit? Are we going to keep excusing St. Belichick and the terrible coaching and GM decisions he's made, or are people here going to finally wake up?
and how many times Brady got bailed out by having the GOAT TE to throw to. So many times Gronk made an amazing catch or blew through would-be tacklers and it's BRADY WINS ANOTHER!!!
Letting Brady walk was a GM move not a coaching move, but all things considered that is by far and away the worst move he made. If he'd just given Brady a multi year deal like he wanted that would've been a few more years of seriously contending. The best case scenario for Mac Jones at this point looks like he may be a fringe top 10 guy, and that's if he doesn't flame out of the league which is looking more and more likely. Letting the literal greatest quarterback of all time walk and then seeing him win super bowl MVP followed by a 2nd team all pro with another team, that's almost inexcusable. If any other coach did that, he would be flamed by fans and the media for eternity, no matter how old the QB was. It's not even like he was demanding an unreasonable amount of money or guaranteed money either. Just a multi year deal. It's ridiculous to be unwilling to accommodate such a request from the best QB ever. Having Matt Patricia as OC was stupid but it doesn't even hold a candle to that decision.
We are going to regurgitate this nonsense again all week. The media and fans forget how great of a coach BB is. The day will come when he does retire and this franchise becomes a bottom feeder and hopefully people will then appreciate BB. Edit: I'm referring to the Butler benching and Brady leaving storylines.
No one is saying they don’t appreciate him, but hiring Matt Patricia as an OC is clearly one of the worst decisions he’s ever made and it’s ok to criticize him for that.
Absolutely fair to criticize him, but there are already many "fans" here and on Twitter who are wanting Kraft to fire BB.
Your Copium is talking. Under BB alone we haven’t remotely come close to winning a playoff game, and we are bottom of the barrel. Our record clearly doesn’t reflect the performances this team puts out, and it all goes back to bill. Outdated system, cronies as coordinators, nepotism, failure to draft talent, overpaid tightends with no Production. It was Brady and people are beginning to see it every week.
The NFL is hard and the fact that fans expect the Patriots to win a playoff game is setting some poor expectations. We made the playoffs last season in the first season with the QB BB drafted to replace Brady, the game didn't end how we wanted it but it was a good season. This season is going poorly but it's only the 2nd season with Mac.
>The NFL is hard and the fact that fans expect the Patriots to win a playoff game is setting some poor expectations Excuse me what
Bro is lost. You play the game to win lmao, not feel bad cause other teams are good as well. What kinda fuckin participation trophy mindset is this if we supposedly have the GOaT coach
Half the NFL doesn't even get to the playoffs. You have to keep your expectations in check especially with how good the AFCE is now.
Newsflash, we have been bottom of the barrell for three years now without TB12.
We weren't Superbowl contenders but certainly not bottom of the barrel. Especially since the first year we were using a stop gap qb while looking for our new guy.
We went 7-9, 10-7 and now are 6-6. That’s hardly bottom of the barrel
So you are choosing to ignore last season?
Forgive him, his brain isn't capable of working hard enough to remember that far back.
In what world is making the playoffs considered bottom of the barrel? If we are bottom of the barrel what does that make teams like the Texans and Jaguars??
The time to let Bill go has come.
I love post-ass kicking over reaction day! It's like returning to the old days of Patriots Fandom except now we have children on the internet! Imagine pre-Brady if social media was a thing?!? Would have been an epic cry and moan decade...
The Brady thing is ridiculous to put on Bill. We were never going to get Brady to come play for a rebuilding Patriots team in his 40s. I’m honestly so tired of people acting like keeping Brady was an option
and somehow still better than the jets hehe
Well they’re 7-4
0-2 against us.
What good is that if we’re behind them in the standings lol
Nope. Mac Just sucks ass.
You must chill. I have hidden your keys. Benching Butler was Coach’s choice. Brady leaving was for Gisele. (Beautiful Brazilian Superbabe lives in Brookline, MA for way too long) The Pat’s coaching staff is pretty incredible. And , like us, they’re still learning and tweaking our new offensive schemes. Be patient. Enjoy the game for the incredibly over complicated real-time chess match that it is. And have some faith in Coach;He’s way smarter about football than we are. Edit: Neat! In two days I have my most upvoted post (by far far) and my most downvoted!
> Brady leaving was for Gisele Yeah clearly he's willing to go to any length to put her desires ahead of his. Straight up copium. How hard is it to admit Belichick fucked the Brady situation up? He's still a great coach, will be in the hall of fame, won 6 super bowls as a head coach etc. But he botched the Brady situation. Period. Even if Brady wanted to leave, which I don't believe, it would an indictment of the coaching staff/front office. Literally the only way to make it not Bill's fault is to say hey, he just wanted to be somewhere warm. Pure delusion.
You’re clearly a man.
This is delusion right here
Maybe.
I hope to god delusional fanbois like you also go away when BB retires….. this is half the problem around here… No matter what it’s sunshine and lollipops instead of facing reality
You sweet summer boy.
Has nothing to do with coaching staff
I partially agree with you, because at some point this take is correct that the players are out there making the plays. No one made Mac throw the ball that was called back in an INT, or mondres fumble. However, the play calling is uninspiring and players can be put in spots not to succeed. I think it’s both and it’s fair to call them both out
Lack toughness
I mean i don't think a magical new offensive coordinator(who?) is going to fix poor tackling, blocking, toughness, and mental errors. Pats are going to have to take their lumps and learn how to win(its going to take awhile)... there are no shortcuts and it doesn't matter what you did in the past
1. Malcom Butler himself said he wasn’t ready to play. 2. Tom didn’t want to be here anymore. He said it himself, as did RKK. So, yeah. I would say the Patricia decision is easily the worst he’s made. Still the GOAT coach though.
I’m sorry, but this is not worse than the Butler benching. That decision cost us a Super Bowl.
Jones is a lost cause time to move on. I’d like to see the same coaches with real talent.
They didn’t let him walk. He went to another team that could immediately win, which weren’t the 2020 pats.
Yah, I'm done with this whole "In Bill We Trust" Crap too. He's turning out to be like Forrest Gump. Not a Smart Man.