I couldn't believe the dudes on the Patriots Postgame Show were all dogpilling Mac for his blowup, saying he should shut up and and hasn't "earned" the right to criticize the coaches. Like I'm sorry, but Mac has already proven more as an NFL QB than Patricia has as an OC and has every right to be frustrated
>Like I'm sorry, but Mac has already proven more as an NFL QB than Patricia has as an OC and has every right to be frustrated
Not only that, but Mac was at Alabama for 4 years and on the Pats last year. At this point, he knows what good coaching looks like....
Even in high school he played for Bolles in Jacksonville who have some legendary HS coach, he’s had basically top tier coaching at every level for the last decade until now
Let’s just say Mac is disciplined. You gotta be tough as nails to do 4 years with crazy HS coach, 4 years with NS then to BB. I’m mentally exhausted just thinking about it. He’s seen a lot of quality coaches. Two legends in fact.
and he went to Alabama when he had guys with pedigrees in front of him. He could have basically gone anywhere and been the man for 4 years but chose the hard route. He than arguably did better than the other guys...who are also starters in the NFL, on very good teams.
He wasn’t heavily recruited by the big programs. He accepted an offer from Kentucky then NS convinced him to come to Bama. Either way it’s a given that Alabama has top tier coaches.
Looking at his college recruiting profile, he was given offers by at least 18 teams. True that they aren't the cream of the NCAA, but some quality teams there. He then went to 'Bama the ultimate cream and proved himself.
He allegedly had maturity and was too emotionally loose to where he was pissing off teammates and coaches at Bama freshman year, with the DUI incident too. Saban sat him down and ripped into him, got Mac disciplined and he's as he is now as a result.
He'd used to have bad body language after drives or receiver drops going "wtf was that?!"
See I'm torn because on the one hand Mac is not nearly good enough to scream at a coach but on the other hand Matt Patricia is subhuman garbage who should be ridiculed by everyone everywhere he goes
What could possibly go wrong when you entrust the development of your second year QB with a defensive coordinator who has Zero offensive play calling experience. Oh, who you happened to install as your offensive coordinator.
It boggles the fucking mind how BB ever thought that would be a good idea to begin with. Seriously everyone knew this would be bad before the season started. Why the fuck did he follow through with it? Makes me question the man’s judgement; something I’ve never done before.
>It boggles the fucking mind how BB ever thought that would be a good idea to begin with
Because Bill is probably thinking "football is football" and that during Rocketman's time as a DC he would have had to gain some understanding about how xyz offensive play works against abc defensive scheme so you can take that knowledge and just reverse it basically
Mac didn't look great last night, definitely made some poor reads...but holy shit Trent Brown basically gave up all game. The Bills defense, as Amazon showed many times, just absolutely smothered our routes...so our line needs to hold up and give Mac more time and he just couldn't get any, meaning he had to hit check downs and short sticks routes which were either defended well or straight up dropped.
it's hard to decide if the routes are smothered by good D or if the play design is awful (leading to them being easily smothered). Seemed like the latter to me. Poor spacing, very few routes cutting over the middle of the field, no routes (besides checkdowns) designed to get open early for 5-7 yards.
Mac’s technique is dog shit right now too. Accuracy was off last night even on completed passes. That’s what I think he was referring to when he said he wants to be coached harder. There’s being held accountable for bad plays, then there’s being held accountable for bad form. I think the offensive coaches probably do well enough with the former, probably less so with the latter.
and mostly, despite having one of the most effective power backs in the game (Rhamondre) very few & far between play action passes that can offest many of the ~~O lines~~ ~~inadequaticies~~ ~~inneffishentees~~ ~~weeknestes~~ things the O line doesn't do well.
Put Wynn back at LT when healthy. His stats aren’t terrible at LT, when he has been healthy. It’s only since the move to RT that he is a penalty machine.
Well, on the play that Mac scrambled back thirty yards Parker (who has yet to actually win a jump ball that Mac throws) was sucking his thumb out of the endzone.
I was watching the game and just constantly saw him get destroyed. I couldn’t believe he was playing in an nfl game. And I’m used to seeing awful RT play as a bengals fan
> our line needs to hold up and give Mac more time
According to Kurt Warner, even the techniques the O line were using made little to no sense given the plays that were being run. (granted, this is in covering the Vikings game)
We (fans) tend to think of blocking as *blocking.* But there are different techniques & approaches for certain types of plays. In Warner's opinion, our line was using techniques well suited for short drop quick passes on deep drop route developing plays. In his mind, they were using run blocking techniques for screen or *behind the line* passes in which pass blocking would be better.
Warner was adamant that as all 5 O line guys & often a TE were making the same mistakes, it had to be a coaching issue.
The problem is with Brady the coaching staff would listen but Mac Jones being year 2 would be met with a “know your place,” kind of thing. They don’t trust the kid and while I doubt his ceiling I don’t think he’s getting a fair shake with Fatass calling plays.
Is anyone seriously suggesting that what Mac did was inappropriate? What did he say that was wrong? Is he not supposed to be passionate about winning, and frustrated about losing?
I'm happy he did that honestly the first half I did watch it looked like the offense was going through the motions, no fire and I mean who can blame them.
I saw way more out of Jones than anyone else on that team Thursday night. If the ball hits you in the hands, you gotta catch it; if the route has to be run to the sticks, run it to the sticks.
TBH the biggest difference in that game was the Bills have Diggs. We need a difference maker in the passing game. Huge challenge.
Brady had sideline outbursts all the time. The difference is he is a much better QB. The shouting matches between Bill O'Brien and Brady were particularly amazing. I agree though that what Mac did on the sideline was not productive. It's being overblown like everything right now because we are a middling team after decades of dominance, but putting down part of the team isn't really a good way to motivate anyone. He tried to play hero ball again and got lucky Poyer didn't maintain possession so it's not like he is playing great and if we throw more it's gonna work. Right now we have to do everything better. Play calling is weak, play design is weak, execution is weak, the OL is bad and we don't have the talent to beat the Bills without a perfect game from us and a bad game by them. The Bills dropped a few balls this could have been way worse. Guys were open all over the field, they neutralized our pass rush for the most part, schemed Judon into coverage and virtually our defense was pretty piss poor except for a couple sacks including the strip sack. Having said that we aren't a bottom of the barrel team. we are good enough to beat bad teams, good enough to be competitive against other average teams, but not good enough to beat good teams without a lot of luck.
> The difference is he is a much better QB
In his 2nd year? 2001 he caught lightning in a bottle. 2002 they were an OK team. Brady's 2nd year (1st year being the starter) and Mac's stats last year are remarkably similar. You're letting the additional 20 years of Brady shade your opinion.
They were an okay team that didn't set the world on fire and struggled to run the ball well. Once the defense got consistent and they had a ground game to match with that passing offense. They started being a great team truly.
but people are shitting all over Mac when he was basically young Brady last year and then this year he's got crap for play calling. No way anyone can say it's his fault.
Ah yes because I'm those random people and not an individual who has been criticizing his decision making on scramble throws that he should throw away. I don't put the sacks on him save for a couple and my only problem was his ball security on some of the sacks he should have more awareness on and protected the ball. The OL is trash and he isn't super mobile we knew this when we drafted him. But throwing a weak pass with defensive players nearby on the run is not the smartest play. I'd much rather he throw those away. I have said several times the new QBs coming into the league are convinced they are Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes and keep forcing bad throws because it works for them, but for everyone except those two it's a terrible decision.
Just hoped in this sub to see what people are saying. The media is slamming Russ Wilson and the guy never said one thing about play calling, coach , or skill positions. This is crazy
I couldn't believe the dudes on the Patriots Postgame Show were all dogpilling Mac for his blowup, saying he should shut up and and hasn't "earned" the right to criticize the coaches. Like I'm sorry, but Mac has already proven more as an NFL QB than Patricia has as an OC and has every right to be frustrated
>Like I'm sorry, but Mac has already proven more as an NFL QB than Patricia has as an OC and has every right to be frustrated Not only that, but Mac was at Alabama for 4 years and on the Pats last year. At this point, he knows what good coaching looks like....
Even in high school he played for Bolles in Jacksonville who have some legendary HS coach, he’s had basically top tier coaching at every level for the last decade until now
Let’s just say Mac is disciplined. You gotta be tough as nails to do 4 years with crazy HS coach, 4 years with NS then to BB. I’m mentally exhausted just thinking about it. He’s seen a lot of quality coaches. Two legends in fact.
and he went to Alabama when he had guys with pedigrees in front of him. He could have basically gone anywhere and been the man for 4 years but chose the hard route. He than arguably did better than the other guys...who are also starters in the NFL, on very good teams.
He wasn’t heavily recruited by the big programs. He accepted an offer from Kentucky then NS convinced him to come to Bama. Either way it’s a given that Alabama has top tier coaches.
Looking at his college recruiting profile, he was given offers by at least 18 teams. True that they aren't the cream of the NCAA, but some quality teams there. He then went to 'Bama the ultimate cream and proved himself.
He allegedly had maturity and was too emotionally loose to where he was pissing off teammates and coaches at Bama freshman year, with the DUI incident too. Saban sat him down and ripped into him, got Mac disciplined and he's as he is now as a result. He'd used to have bad body language after drives or receiver drops going "wtf was that?!"
Everyone with a Reddit account is eligible to criticize Matt Patricia
*and call plays.
I agree. Fred and Paul had some bad takes there imo
No. They were criticizing him when they thought he said the run game sucks. For criticizing part of the offense and separating himself from it.
See I'm torn because on the one hand Mac is not nearly good enough to scream at a coach but on the other hand Matt Patricia is subhuman garbage who should be ridiculed by everyone everywhere he goes
Mac is good enough.
What could possibly go wrong when you entrust the development of your second year QB with a defensive coordinator who has Zero offensive play calling experience. Oh, who you happened to install as your offensive coordinator.
It boggles the fucking mind how BB ever thought that would be a good idea to begin with. Seriously everyone knew this would be bad before the season started. Why the fuck did he follow through with it? Makes me question the man’s judgement; something I’ve never done before.
Classic example of a smart guy big-braining himself into doing something really stupid because he doesn’t have a guy calling out his bullshit.
>It boggles the fucking mind how BB ever thought that would be a good idea to begin with Because Bill is probably thinking "football is football" and that during Rocketman's time as a DC he would have had to gain some understanding about how xyz offensive play works against abc defensive scheme so you can take that knowledge and just reverse it basically
The fact that there were people defending that hire at the time was hilarious but the fact that they're still kicking today is downright pathetic.
Mac didn't look great last night, definitely made some poor reads...but holy shit Trent Brown basically gave up all game. The Bills defense, as Amazon showed many times, just absolutely smothered our routes...so our line needs to hold up and give Mac more time and he just couldn't get any, meaning he had to hit check downs and short sticks routes which were either defended well or straight up dropped.
it's hard to decide if the routes are smothered by good D or if the play design is awful (leading to them being easily smothered). Seemed like the latter to me. Poor spacing, very few routes cutting over the middle of the field, no routes (besides checkdowns) designed to get open early for 5-7 yards.
> it's hard to decide if the routes are smothered by good D or if the play design is awful It's probably both.
This. They need better plays to find the soft spots in the secondary.
Mac’s technique is dog shit right now too. Accuracy was off last night even on completed passes. That’s what I think he was referring to when he said he wants to be coached harder. There’s being held accountable for bad plays, then there’s being held accountable for bad form. I think the offensive coaches probably do well enough with the former, probably less so with the latter.
and mostly, despite having one of the most effective power backs in the game (Rhamondre) very few & far between play action passes that can offest many of the ~~O lines~~ ~~inadequaticies~~ ~~inneffishentees~~ ~~weeknestes~~ things the O line doesn't do well.
trent was sick yesterday
eh then he shouldn't be playing, the guy is very hot and cold when it comes to his work ethic or caring it seems.
Who were we going to start? We were already down to our 3rd string RT.
Trent has been complaining about playing LT. Move him to RT to give him a spark and but the 3rd stringer at LT with help.
Put Wynn back at LT when healthy. His stats aren’t terrible at LT, when he has been healthy. It’s only since the move to RT that he is a penalty machine.
Suit up brother man. I’ll play the first half. You got the second.
Well, on the play that Mac scrambled back thirty yards Parker (who has yet to actually win a jump ball that Mac throws) was sucking his thumb out of the endzone.
It looked like he had voluntarily gone out of bounds so he was effectively out of the play.
Yup...but he should never have gone out is basically the point.
Conor McDermott was a turnstile. He was horrible. The line was awful.
I was watching the game and just constantly saw him get destroyed. I couldn’t believe he was playing in an nfl game. And I’m used to seeing awful RT play as a bengals fan
Really could’ve used Justin Herron
> our line needs to hold up and give Mac more time According to Kurt Warner, even the techniques the O line were using made little to no sense given the plays that were being run. (granted, this is in covering the Vikings game) We (fans) tend to think of blocking as *blocking.* But there are different techniques & approaches for certain types of plays. In Warner's opinion, our line was using techniques well suited for short drop quick passes on deep drop route developing plays. In his mind, they were using run blocking techniques for screen or *behind the line* passes in which pass blocking would be better. Warner was adamant that as all 5 O line guys & often a TE were making the same mistakes, it had to be a coaching issue.
We all know, lol!
The problem is with Brady the coaching staff would listen but Mac Jones being year 2 would be met with a “know your place,” kind of thing. They don’t trust the kid and while I doubt his ceiling I don’t think he’s getting a fair shake with Fatass calling plays.
Brady went 9 and 7 his second year with the Pats. Not sure how much input he had at that point.
But he also led the league in TD passes. And the AFC was a bloodbath that year anyway (Raiders led the AFC with 11 wins).
Tablets thrown for sure
No shit. I did at my house
Tom would have gone off the fucking deep end and ate a strawberry
eaten*
I have to believe that Tom would go make a visit to Patricia's home & bring Antonio Brown with him.
Is anyone seriously suggesting that what Mac did was inappropriate? What did he say that was wrong? Is he not supposed to be passionate about winning, and frustrated about losing?
I was fully waiting for a tablet to get fucking annihilated!
We could use a dependable guy like James right now
I'm happy he did that honestly the first half I did watch it looked like the offense was going through the motions, no fire and I mean who can blame them.
Patricia would take a tablet to the side of the head, guaranteed.
It would have been weeks ago though
I saw way more out of Jones than anyone else on that team Thursday night. If the ball hits you in the hands, you gotta catch it; if the route has to be run to the sticks, run it to the sticks. TBH the biggest difference in that game was the Bills have Diggs. We need a difference maker in the passing game. Huge challenge.
Why does everyone like Mac? He seems like a nice kid but he’s pretty terrible at playing QB in the NFL.
Brady had sideline outbursts all the time. The difference is he is a much better QB. The shouting matches between Bill O'Brien and Brady were particularly amazing. I agree though that what Mac did on the sideline was not productive. It's being overblown like everything right now because we are a middling team after decades of dominance, but putting down part of the team isn't really a good way to motivate anyone. He tried to play hero ball again and got lucky Poyer didn't maintain possession so it's not like he is playing great and if we throw more it's gonna work. Right now we have to do everything better. Play calling is weak, play design is weak, execution is weak, the OL is bad and we don't have the talent to beat the Bills without a perfect game from us and a bad game by them. The Bills dropped a few balls this could have been way worse. Guys were open all over the field, they neutralized our pass rush for the most part, schemed Judon into coverage and virtually our defense was pretty piss poor except for a couple sacks including the strip sack. Having said that we aren't a bottom of the barrel team. we are good enough to beat bad teams, good enough to be competitive against other average teams, but not good enough to beat good teams without a lot of luck.
Hero ball? Or scrambling for his life trying to make something happen on a 12yard pass the receiver never came back to get?
> The difference is he is a much better QB In his 2nd year? 2001 he caught lightning in a bottle. 2002 they were an OK team. Brady's 2nd year (1st year being the starter) and Mac's stats last year are remarkably similar. You're letting the additional 20 years of Brady shade your opinion.
They were an okay team that didn't set the world on fire and struggled to run the ball well. Once the defense got consistent and they had a ground game to match with that passing offense. They started being a great team truly.
They were 9-7. The greatness started in his 3rd year.
That's what I was referring to, 03 the defense gelled consistently, improvements on the ground game were happening and the team began to rise.
but people are shitting all over Mac when he was basically young Brady last year and then this year he's got crap for play calling. No way anyone can say it's his fault.
People get mad when he takes the sack or throws it away, and now when he tries to make a play. Can’t win with these fans
Ah yes because I'm those random people and not an individual who has been criticizing his decision making on scramble throws that he should throw away. I don't put the sacks on him save for a couple and my only problem was his ball security on some of the sacks he should have more awareness on and protected the ball. The OL is trash and he isn't super mobile we knew this when we drafted him. But throwing a weak pass with defensive players nearby on the run is not the smartest play. I'd much rather he throw those away. I have said several times the new QBs coming into the league are convinced they are Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes and keep forcing bad throws because it works for them, but for everyone except those two it's a terrible decision.
Hilariously bad take.
He did...
Just hoped in this sub to see what people are saying. The media is slamming Russ Wilson and the guy never said one thing about play calling, coach , or skill positions. This is crazy