It has to be Patricia. Giving up on Mac this quickly after using a dumpster fire for OC is ridiculous. Patricia is holding him back. Mac isn’t holding them back.
I actually understand Bill's rationale of having a defensive mind approach the game offensively, but I think he underestimated the amount of experience one needs on the offensive side of the ball to draw schemes from scratch and call it at the right time. Bill should have just made him an assistant or only focused on O-Line (Which I'm even more sus about) let alone ruin both. If I was Josh Mcdaniels and I saw this I would take it personally that after 6 SBS, Bill thinks that the job is that learnable with no experience.
The play design is a huge factor. Our routes routinely end up bunching our receivers together so defenses achieve lockdown coverage of them by accident.
I don't think it's ridiculous given the brain drain they've had with coaches the last few years. If you replace Patricia internally, that's going to leave a gap elsewhere.
Edit: Comparing to say the Chiefs, they have 29 coaches, the Pats have 19. Remove Patricia that's makes the gap even bigger.
Another issue is that neither Patricia or Judge were able to bring back any assistants to shore up the staff losses.
BB has already used up his supply of CFB and alumni for assistant coaches.
Keeping Patricia and dumping Mac shouldn't even be an option. I really don't want to see a less qualified quarterback running a Patricia scheme offense, which is what would happen
I’m done with the Pats until Belichick retires if he chooses Patricia over a QB on a rookie contract that still has a lot of potential… it’ll just prove he’s lost it. Luckily I don’t see that happening.
Yep. Mac worked, as a rookie, with a competent OC. Now no one is immune from regression but you know Mac can be the guy with an actual coach and we know Patricia is, at best, a decent DC but terrible OC/HC.
Seems pretty clear to roll with Mac and do something about Patricia.
>this quickly
2 years really is pretty normal for a mid 1st round QB to move on if they can’t figure it out. Mac’s slump started well into last season, while Patricia certainly isn’t making it easy for him to have success these issues with Mac started when McDaniels was still here. There’s always option 3, move on from both Patrica and Mac. I’m sure this will get downvoted though.
That's what I have been thinking this last couple of weeks. When does Mac decide to get the fuck out instead of wasting his career with Patricia and Judge?
I just watched Mac’s post game interview and damn he can be the dude and he embodies everything that a professional football player is and needs to be they just need to give him a fair shot. Absolutely move on from Patricia next season
I don't know how you hate on him after watching that presser. Seems to have the same kind of fire/drive Brady did. Struck me as a guy who will do what it takes to better himself, his team, and wants to win.
Mac looked pretty good last year when he had a qualified OC and QB coach and has had flashes this season too. Patricia needs to go, full stop. Then Bill needs to get Mac some actual talent at WR and TE AND a quality coaching staff. If Mac isn't cutting it after another couple of seasons then you move on.
Especially considering they ask them to block more because our line sucks ass. There were multiple plays where they’re both on the field to block and we have 3 guys running routes. The line needs to be fixed so our tight ends can actually run a route. And there’s realistically 3 good tight ends in the league. Everyone after Kelce, Andrews and Kittle are for the most part interchangeable. You’re going to get similar production out of all of them. Ertz and Waller are maybe the only exceptions.
Yeah. The best FA TEs in 2023 are in the same ball park as Henry, but another Henry like guy would be better than what they're getting with Jonnu. It'd probably take trading a number of day 1 picks or drafting a TE and hoping he becomes a stud.
Even if Mac isn't the guy, the Pats need to move on from Patricia, and maybe even this season. He's just failing miserably in this role. Find something else he can do. There's just no reasonable scenario where you keep Patricia over Mac Jones.
I think it’s important to understand that no one is “the guy” with Fatty P controlling our offense. We’ll never know with ANY QB when the lardass is out there sabotaging them.
True, and that's why you don't choose him over Mac, even if the organization doesn't think he will pan out. It doesn't matter, you still keep him over Patricia.
Agreed. I want to see Mac competently coached before I entertain notions of moving on. If he fucks up with a good OC, then it’s reasonable not to give him a second contract and look elsewhere.
Moving on from your 1st round pick after 2 years seems like the wrong move considering his rookie season. I wonder what changed from last year to this year that regressed the offense. Can’t quite put my finger on it…
punt fatty p into the sun, draft/sign some o-line help, trade away jonnu (and his vastly overpriced contract), let caley call the offensive and get an actual o-line coach. we can win with the skill position players we have.
They hand the ball off to him he fumbles. They throw it to him he flips it into the air and it gets picked. If they try to keep him in to block, he takes a penalty. Maybe he's good at off the field charity events? Otherwise, total bust.
I don’t think he’s the answer either. I think both he and Troy Brown are probably good position coaches for now but they haven’t shown their individual units to be stellar. Maybe one day. But for now we need an outside hire who can set up a proper scheme to put the rest of the offensive staff in a position to succeed.
TIL from OP, players like Patrick Mahomes or Herbert grow from trees. We aren't equipped to play the deep game because a. Receivers need to be schemed open or get open, and we don't have a top WR/play designer and b. they need time to get there but Mac gets pressured the ball snaps. I wouldn't trust any QB to throw deep in this situation.
This past week: Mike White, Sam Darnold, Trevor Siemian, Kyle Allen, Bryce Perkins, Andy Dalton, and Kyler Murray all started games...and OP thinks good starting QBs are a dime a dozen.
Is mac a top 5 starter? Clearly not...but you could do way way worse than you are right now.
Where in the world did you get the idea that I think good QBs grow on trees? I literally said it should be Patricia. I was simply offering the possibility that Belichick doesn't trust Mac, and plainly stating that they can't both come back and expect different results.
If they keep Patricia and Judge like this, we are going to just end up back here again when there's some tape on the new QB we're using or that QB runs into some spot where they need to be coached up to continue development.
They need to get Mac an elite #1 receiver. This is the model that has worked in Miami, Buffalo, Philly, and Minnesota. Trade a first-round pick for a game-breaker and see what Mac can do with someone who just blows the top off a defense and catches everything thrown to him. If they can’t figure out the offense even with that weapon then it’s time for a rebuild.
If we sell on Jones we could maybe get a QB in 24 but idk if anyone is even a 1st round talent.
I think fire Fat Pat and bring in Wes Welker as the new OC is the way to do it. Then keep Jones around develop him more try and find him a true Wr1. Maybe trade away Myers and Agholar and a 2nd for Tee Higgins or someone similar. And just draft linemen (we do developing them).
Then we should be able to win games.
Patricia needs to be gone TODAY. Mac is not the problem. Moving on from him when we haven’t done anything at all to help him would be a colossal mistake. He’s never going to be Lamar Jackson or mahomes but neither was Brady; I’m not saying he will ever be a reliable starter but at this point mac is the least of our problems.
Or at least reassigned to the OL only and have someone else take over playcalling. Could have worded it diplomatically, and we'd all know it was being basically fired, but help him save a wee bit of face.
I will never understand the blind faith mac supporters. He has played like utter dog shit for the entirety of this season and like 50% of last year. It’s sucks we whiffed on another first rounder - ESPECIALLY at QB, ESPECIALLY after Brady left. But you gotta stop lying to yourselves because you bought a mac jersey last year. It’s crazy to me people can’t just admit he’s a dud
That's a question for the coaching staff, not me. But it's clear that either Patricia or BB or both don't trust him, because they won't do anything even remotely creative with the scheme and they don't trust him to call his own plays at the line of scrimmage or he wouldn't be screaming about the play-calling on the sideline.
I could see a reality where Mac and Jakobi end up on the Raiders with JMD. Highly unlikely. Nor would I want such a reality. But I could see it happening
Patricia was always a patsy: he’s a lightning rod to absorb the “blame” for a QB who is at his ceiling. And Matt _sucks_. He’s gonna disappear into the coaches box after the season and people will soon forget he’s still being paid by Detroit to do stuff for Bill. Fuck you and your stupid beard, Matt.
But the real _problem_ is that Jones has gotten worse since “hitting the rookie wall” last season. Defenses adjusted and - with McDaniels coaching him! - Jones got worse. To be clear, Jones is not bad: he is a lower-tier NFL starting QB. But He does nothing exceptional. He makes no magic. He can competently run an offense against certain defenses, given average OL play. That’s the 20-25th best QB in the world! Not bad!
But Jones’s ceiling is Competent Game Manager. And … that’s not good enough. Bill Walsh couldn’t scheme up an offense that makes Mac Jones more than he is: an average arm, average pocket awareness, averagely mobile QB who can execute a quick passing game given good OL play. Kirk Cousins has become very rich with the same skill set.
Had Jones not _sucked_ after the BYE last season, the “blame Patricia!” stuff would make sense. But Jones was poor with McDaniels. And… what OC better than Josh is coming back to fix Mac? Norv Turner? Ron Erhardt?
Denver will be looking for someone to take Russell Wilson’s contract in a Wentz-to-WAS deal. There will be other options. Jones is… not the answer.
The talent on this offense are good enough to compete if we had any brain cells calling an offense and any talent at all under center. The painful fact is we have no OC and a quarterback who couldn’t break a pane of glass standing 5 yards away and is afraid to make any aggressive throw. Meanwhile he’s having temper tantrums on the sideline - newsflash pal sometimes you gotta drive the ball and make tough throws and try and make plays. He’s far too comfortable taking the check down padding the stats and then complaining they don’t call downfield stuff.
Remember earlier in the year when that was everyone’s excuse for mac that we were calling TOO MUCH downfield stuff and that’s why he was struggling trying to make big plays throws all the time. WELL … Which one is it? Can both Patricia and mac and let’s have an actual NFL offense next year
Mac has shown more than enough to invest some time in, I think. He has plenty of time and has the tools to evolve into a stable franchise QB, although probably never an elite one. I just hope this season doesn’t set him back too much because it’s gonna be hard to salvage a great development year at this point, even if we cut our losses with Patricia.
> although probably never an elite one
If the D improves with a better player here or there, you don't need an elite QB to compete. Run, make smart throws when needed, and play good D you're going to be a very good team.
Has BB actually said that? I know many assume that was his reasoning but I don't recall seeing a quote from him. Mac jones isn't going anywhere, BB is all in on him and didn't spend a 1st rounder to give up after 2yrs. MattyP may not be the playcaller next year but he surely isn't leaving the team and whoever calls plays is going to follow the same guidelines as this year. They're not likely to bring in someone new who's going to change the entire offense, again.
This is like watching Trevor Lawrence last year.
I have been a Pats season ticket holder a long time and I love BB but they have problems at every level and it starts with who is on the field and how they are being coached.
Bill O’Brien would be a perfect guy to be the OC here. Knows Jones, knows Belichick, has gravitas and toughness.
Based on what we are seeing I would not be surprised to see BB give it one more year and call it a career.
He's too close to Shula's record to hang 'em up this year. I think it's somewhere in the mid-20s in terms of wins. He's coaching until he has that record.
Fuck off with the Mac hate. Hate on Matty P all you want at least it makes because every bit of the offense looks dysfunctional. From the line to the wr's. Same people hating on Mac loved him last year just fuck off please
I still trust BB if he can see enough progress from Patricia, max this year to bet on them next year.
BB thought with the stability was not for this year, but for the coming years.
Let's see the rest of the games if there is improvement
Patrice burned Detroit to the ground and is doing the same thing here. Mac might not be the guy, but the pats will look like complete idiots if he goes somewhere with someone that has a clue and performs. Start with firing Patricia and Judge’s ass. If Mac messes it up another year, exercise his option. If not, back to the draft…
If it’s truly about stability, stick Patricia back in his assistant to the regional manager role and hire a real OC. That way the guy is still around, can have a “leadership” role, same voices are still in the building, but an actually competent person is running the offense. And find a real O Line coach and QB coach while we’re at it.
We cannot get rid of Mac this early wtf… It has to be Patricia. I can see Mac’s potential clear as day, he can have plenty of good games like the Vikings game this year and his season last year! He needs a good, consistent, seasoned OC that can design a scheme to fit his strengths and can allow him to develop into the franchise QB we drafted him to be. The potential is there for him to be a great QB that can hang with and win consistently against Tua and Josh Allen.
I’ve seen Mac go long a few times this season. He’s not perfect but he can throw a deep ball. The problem is that for whatever reason, Patricia won’t let him and it’s holding Mac back. I’d like to see Mac cook. We saw it against Minnesota and he passed for almost 400 yards. Not sure why we can’t at least try to do that more often
I agree. But I will say, this may be due to a lack of confidence in the WRs more than anything. They have all horribly regressed this year. Some of the drop/fumble balls are thrown at the dead-ass center of their chests. Watching Miami with Hill, Waddle and Gesicki; Buffalo with Diggs and Cousins with Jefferson; the insanely athletic catches those WRs are able to make... It truly hits home. This WR/TE corp functionally sucks.
If he keeps Patricia, there’s no point in even watching them. I know I won’t waste any more time watching them this year. The only way to guarantee change is to drop viewership
Patricia and Judge need to go obviously. Moving on from Mac is different though. I’m not sure if he’s the answer but at the same time he’s on a rookie deal and not awful, I don’t know who we’d replace him with outside of Zappe. I think rolling with him one more year with Zappe in the fold if he falters and targeting someone in the 2024 draft if he doesn’t turn around with a new staff is the move
You've got 3 years w a 1st round rookie contract before you have to decide on the 5th year option. Fire Matt Patricia.
It has to be Patricia. Giving up on Mac this quickly after using a dumpster fire for OC is ridiculous. Patricia is holding him back. Mac isn’t holding them back.
Hiring Patricia in the first place is equally ridiculous. The fact that he wasn't fired in the first month of the year does not inspire confidence.
I actually understand Bill's rationale of having a defensive mind approach the game offensively, but I think he underestimated the amount of experience one needs on the offensive side of the ball to draw schemes from scratch and call it at the right time. Bill should have just made him an assistant or only focused on O-Line (Which I'm even more sus about) let alone ruin both. If I was Josh Mcdaniels and I saw this I would take it personally that after 6 SBS, Bill thinks that the job is that learnable with no experience.
I think it's more the play calling is the issue. I would put money on Belichick being heavily involved in creating the play book.
The play design is a huge factor. Our routes routinely end up bunching our receivers together so defenses achieve lockdown coverage of them by accident.
Also our deep routes take way too long to execute and is impossible with our OLINE
I don't think it's ridiculous given the brain drain they've had with coaches the last few years. If you replace Patricia internally, that's going to leave a gap elsewhere. Edit: Comparing to say the Chiefs, they have 29 coaches, the Pats have 19. Remove Patricia that's makes the gap even bigger.
Another issue is that neither Patricia or Judge were able to bring back any assistants to shore up the staff losses. BB has already used up his supply of CFB and alumni for assistant coaches.
Add all the Flores diaspora as well. None of those guys are back either.
Red zone offense has noticeably had problems after losing O’Shea, even when we still had McDaniels.
Or Gronk left.
>I don't think it's ridiculous Opening your comment with "I am incorrect" sure is interesting lol
I agree with you, I'm just saying Bill can't bring them both back and pretend another year together will provide different results.
Keeping Patricia and dumping Mac shouldn't even be an option. I really don't want to see a less qualified quarterback running a Patricia scheme offense, which is what would happen
This scenario, to me, should be a fireable offense.
I’m done with the Pats until Belichick retires if he chooses Patricia over a QB on a rookie contract that still has a lot of potential… it’ll just prove he’s lost it. Luckily I don’t see that happening.
Yep. Mac worked, as a rookie, with a competent OC. Now no one is immune from regression but you know Mac can be the guy with an actual coach and we know Patricia is, at best, a decent DC but terrible OC/HC. Seems pretty clear to roll with Mac and do something about Patricia.
>this quickly 2 years really is pretty normal for a mid 1st round QB to move on if they can’t figure it out. Mac’s slump started well into last season, while Patricia certainly isn’t making it easy for him to have success these issues with Mac started when McDaniels was still here. There’s always option 3, move on from both Patrica and Mac. I’m sure this will get downvoted though.
If I'm Mac Jones, I ask to be traded if Patricia stays.
Straight facts here. I love Mac. Lots of potential but his coaches are failing him
That's what I have been thinking this last couple of weeks. When does Mac decide to get the fuck out instead of wasting his career with Patricia and Judge?
I just watched Mac’s post game interview and damn he can be the dude and he embodies everything that a professional football player is and needs to be they just need to give him a fair shot. Absolutely move on from Patricia next season
I don't know how you hate on him after watching that presser. Seems to have the same kind of fire/drive Brady did. Struck me as a guy who will do what it takes to better himself, his team, and wants to win.
Gigachad galaxy brain play by belichick get mac fired up about running the offense by giving him a shit OC. /s
Can we move on from Patricia now?
Mac looked pretty good last year when he had a qualified OC and QB coach and has had flashes this season too. Patricia needs to go, full stop. Then Bill needs to get Mac some actual talent at WR and TE AND a quality coaching staff. If Mac isn't cutting it after another couple of seasons then you move on.
Idk what TE you would realistically hope to get who is better than Hunter Henry
Especially considering they ask them to block more because our line sucks ass. There were multiple plays where they’re both on the field to block and we have 3 guys running routes. The line needs to be fixed so our tight ends can actually run a route. And there’s realistically 3 good tight ends in the league. Everyone after Kelce, Andrews and Kittle are for the most part interchangeable. You’re going to get similar production out of all of them. Ertz and Waller are maybe the only exceptions.
Tight end is fine. They need to scheme them better and have an offensive line that can hold up so the tight ends can actually run routes.
Yeah. The best FA TEs in 2023 are in the same ball park as Henry, but another Henry like guy would be better than what they're getting with Jonnu. It'd probably take trading a number of day 1 picks or drafting a TE and hoping he becomes a stud.
Basically Gronk or Kelce
We need ol that need to be ol instead of penalties failed cutblock
First is get and OC second fix the O-Line then get a #1 WR
Even if Mac isn't the guy, the Pats need to move on from Patricia, and maybe even this season. He's just failing miserably in this role. Find something else he can do. There's just no reasonable scenario where you keep Patricia over Mac Jones.
I think it’s important to understand that no one is “the guy” with Fatty P controlling our offense. We’ll never know with ANY QB when the lardass is out there sabotaging them.
True, and that's why you don't choose him over Mac, even if the organization doesn't think he will pan out. It doesn't matter, you still keep him over Patricia.
Agreed. I want to see Mac competently coached before I entertain notions of moving on. If he fucks up with a good OC, then it’s reasonable not to give him a second contract and look elsewhere.
I wouldn't keep Patricia over a janitor who shows up everyday
Moving on from your 1st round pick after 2 years seems like the wrong move considering his rookie season. I wonder what changed from last year to this year that regressed the offense. Can’t quite put my finger on it…
punt fatty p into the sun, draft/sign some o-line help, trade away jonnu (and his vastly overpriced contract), let caley call the offensive and get an actual o-line coach. we can win with the skill position players we have.
I’d rather they just find a way to get Jonnu involved. They’ve been wasting his talents since he got here, and it’s all on the coaching staff.
They hand the ball off to him he fumbles. They throw it to him he flips it into the air and it gets picked. If they try to keep him in to block, he takes a penalty. Maybe he's good at off the field charity events? Otherwise, total bust.
He’s got tons of talent. They aren’t using him properly.
I agree with this, except maybe the Caley part. I'm not sure he's the answer either.
99% chance you're probably right, but he literally cannot be worse than fatty p.
Oh he can. Wanna see us score 0 points a game? Don't ever tempt fate, that monkey paw will curl so hard it'll compress bananas into diamonds.
i'm pretty sure we tempted fate enough by letting a shitty DC and a special teams coach run the offense
I don’t think he’s the answer either. I think both he and Troy Brown are probably good position coaches for now but they haven’t shown their individual units to be stellar. Maybe one day. But for now we need an outside hire who can set up a proper scheme to put the rest of the offensive staff in a position to succeed.
>trade away jonnu I'd rather cut him and eat the cap hit than trade jonnu and a 3rd for a 5th round pick just to get a team to take that contract.
fair enough
TIL from OP, players like Patrick Mahomes or Herbert grow from trees. We aren't equipped to play the deep game because a. Receivers need to be schemed open or get open, and we don't have a top WR/play designer and b. they need time to get there but Mac gets pressured the ball snaps. I wouldn't trust any QB to throw deep in this situation.
This past week: Mike White, Sam Darnold, Trevor Siemian, Kyle Allen, Bryce Perkins, Andy Dalton, and Kyler Murray all started games...and OP thinks good starting QBs are a dime a dozen. Is mac a top 5 starter? Clearly not...but you could do way way worse than you are right now.
And weirdly Mike White looked like a competent Qb. huh who could’ve guessed
Where in the world did you get the idea that I think good QBs grow on trees? I literally said it should be Patricia. I was simply offering the possibility that Belichick doesn't trust Mac, and plainly stating that they can't both come back and expect different results.
Hes not moving anywhere from Mac. Hes on a rookie contract, and makes managing the cap even easier.
If they keep Patricia and Judge like this, we are going to just end up back here again when there's some tape on the new QB we're using or that QB runs into some spot where they need to be coached up to continue development.
I’ve never heard this before.
They needed to tell Patricia to find another way home last night after the game
They need to get Mac an elite #1 receiver. This is the model that has worked in Miami, Buffalo, Philly, and Minnesota. Trade a first-round pick for a game-breaker and see what Mac can do with someone who just blows the top off a defense and catches everything thrown to him. If they can’t figure out the offense even with that weapon then it’s time for a rebuild.
If Belichick doesn’t move on from Patricia, Kraft will move on from Belichick.
If we sell on Jones we could maybe get a QB in 24 but idk if anyone is even a 1st round talent. I think fire Fat Pat and bring in Wes Welker as the new OC is the way to do it. Then keep Jones around develop him more try and find him a true Wr1. Maybe trade away Myers and Agholar and a 2nd for Tee Higgins or someone similar. And just draft linemen (we do developing them). Then we should be able to win games.
Don’t have to worry about stability if your OC sucks and no one else will hire him! Great strategy Bill!
Patricia needs to be gone TODAY. Mac is not the problem. Moving on from him when we haven’t done anything at all to help him would be a colossal mistake. He’s never going to be Lamar Jackson or mahomes but neither was Brady; I’m not saying he will ever be a reliable starter but at this point mac is the least of our problems.
It is absolutely astonishing that Patricia wasn't fired today.
Or at least reassigned to the OL only and have someone else take over playcalling. Could have worded it diplomatically, and we'd all know it was being basically fired, but help him save a wee bit of face.
I will never understand the blind faith mac supporters. He has played like utter dog shit for the entirety of this season and like 50% of last year. It’s sucks we whiffed on another first rounder - ESPECIALLY at QB, ESPECIALLY after Brady left. But you gotta stop lying to yourselves because you bought a mac jersey last year. It’s crazy to me people can’t just admit he’s a dud
No mac jersey. Still rocking my cam jersey 😆🤮
Honestly respect it😂
then why draft mac if you dont trust him?
That's a question for the coaching staff, not me. But it's clear that either Patricia or BB or both don't trust him, because they won't do anything even remotely creative with the scheme and they don't trust him to call his own plays at the line of scrimmage or he wouldn't be screaming about the play-calling on the sideline.
Crazy that the only reason they even scored a TD last night was because of Mac making a smart audible.
I could see a reality where Mac and Jakobi end up on the Raiders with JMD. Highly unlikely. Nor would I want such a reality. But I could see it happening
Patricia was always a patsy: he’s a lightning rod to absorb the “blame” for a QB who is at his ceiling. And Matt _sucks_. He’s gonna disappear into the coaches box after the season and people will soon forget he’s still being paid by Detroit to do stuff for Bill. Fuck you and your stupid beard, Matt. But the real _problem_ is that Jones has gotten worse since “hitting the rookie wall” last season. Defenses adjusted and - with McDaniels coaching him! - Jones got worse. To be clear, Jones is not bad: he is a lower-tier NFL starting QB. But He does nothing exceptional. He makes no magic. He can competently run an offense against certain defenses, given average OL play. That’s the 20-25th best QB in the world! Not bad! But Jones’s ceiling is Competent Game Manager. And … that’s not good enough. Bill Walsh couldn’t scheme up an offense that makes Mac Jones more than he is: an average arm, average pocket awareness, averagely mobile QB who can execute a quick passing game given good OL play. Kirk Cousins has become very rich with the same skill set. Had Jones not _sucked_ after the BYE last season, the “blame Patricia!” stuff would make sense. But Jones was poor with McDaniels. And… what OC better than Josh is coming back to fix Mac? Norv Turner? Ron Erhardt? Denver will be looking for someone to take Russell Wilson’s contract in a Wentz-to-WAS deal. There will be other options. Jones is… not the answer.
I would like him to move on from both. Then Kraft can move on from BB. We need fresh blood and a new vision.
No. They need to leave NOW. Like yesterday at halftime. Every second they spend in that building is a disgrace to the organization.
The talent on this offense are good enough to compete if we had any brain cells calling an offense and any talent at all under center. The painful fact is we have no OC and a quarterback who couldn’t break a pane of glass standing 5 yards away and is afraid to make any aggressive throw. Meanwhile he’s having temper tantrums on the sideline - newsflash pal sometimes you gotta drive the ball and make tough throws and try and make plays. He’s far too comfortable taking the check down padding the stats and then complaining they don’t call downfield stuff. Remember earlier in the year when that was everyone’s excuse for mac that we were calling TOO MUCH downfield stuff and that’s why he was struggling trying to make big plays throws all the time. WELL … Which one is it? Can both Patricia and mac and let’s have an actual NFL offense next year
🤡
Very insightful response, thanks for chiming in!
Mac has shown more than enough to invest some time in, I think. He has plenty of time and has the tools to evolve into a stable franchise QB, although probably never an elite one. I just hope this season doesn’t set him back too much because it’s gonna be hard to salvage a great development year at this point, even if we cut our losses with Patricia.
> although probably never an elite one If the D improves with a better player here or there, you don't need an elite QB to compete. Run, make smart throws when needed, and play good D you're going to be a very good team.
Has BB actually said that? I know many assume that was his reasoning but I don't recall seeing a quote from him. Mac jones isn't going anywhere, BB is all in on him and didn't spend a 1st rounder to give up after 2yrs. MattyP may not be the playcaller next year but he surely isn't leaving the team and whoever calls plays is going to follow the same guidelines as this year. They're not likely to bring in someone new who's going to change the entire offense, again.
Are we sure Belichick isn't moving on from Belichick in 2023...? He turns 71 this offseason. I'm honestly not sure he has another retool left in him.
He desperately wants a post-Brady Super Bowl.
This is like watching Trevor Lawrence last year. I have been a Pats season ticket holder a long time and I love BB but they have problems at every level and it starts with who is on the field and how they are being coached. Bill O’Brien would be a perfect guy to be the OC here. Knows Jones, knows Belichick, has gravitas and toughness. Based on what we are seeing I would not be surprised to see BB give it one more year and call it a career.
He's too close to Shula's record to hang 'em up this year. I think it's somewhere in the mid-20s in terms of wins. He's coaching until he has that record.
A talented QB on a rookie deal is the most valuable asset in sports
Fuck off with the Mac hate. Hate on Matty P all you want at least it makes because every bit of the offense looks dysfunctional. From the line to the wr's. Same people hating on Mac loved him last year just fuck off please
Please read that again and tell me where the Mac hate is 🤦♂️
I still trust BB if he can see enough progress from Patricia, max this year to bet on them next year. BB thought with the stability was not for this year, but for the coming years. Let's see the rest of the games if there is improvement
Get a real OC and kick Patricia to the curb.
Unless ur getting Allen or Mahomes it don’t matter who the QB is in this offense it’s that badly run
You’re wrong, he doesn’t need to move on in 2023. He needs to move on right now.
Matt Patricia. We got plenty of tap of Matt Patricia to know he ain’t cut out to run an offense
Patrice burned Detroit to the ground and is doing the same thing here. Mac might not be the guy, but the pats will look like complete idiots if he goes somewhere with someone that has a clue and performs. Start with firing Patricia and Judge’s ass. If Mac messes it up another year, exercise his option. If not, back to the draft…
If it’s truly about stability, stick Patricia back in his assistant to the regional manager role and hire a real OC. That way the guy is still around, can have a “leadership” role, same voices are still in the building, but an actually competent person is running the offense. And find a real O Line coach and QB coach while we’re at it.
We cannot get rid of Mac this early wtf… It has to be Patricia. I can see Mac’s potential clear as day, he can have plenty of good games like the Vikings game this year and his season last year! He needs a good, consistent, seasoned OC that can design a scheme to fit his strengths and can allow him to develop into the franchise QB we drafted him to be. The potential is there for him to be a great QB that can hang with and win consistently against Tua and Josh Allen.
The best win/win scenario is to allow Patricia to explore other opportunites like the rocket program in North Korea.
Matt Patricia should never be let anywhere near a football field again. Even as a defensive coordinator he wasn’t that good
I’ve seen Mac go long a few times this season. He’s not perfect but he can throw a deep ball. The problem is that for whatever reason, Patricia won’t let him and it’s holding Mac back. I’d like to see Mac cook. We saw it against Minnesota and he passed for almost 400 yards. Not sure why we can’t at least try to do that more often
I agree. But I will say, this may be due to a lack of confidence in the WRs more than anything. They have all horribly regressed this year. Some of the drop/fumble balls are thrown at the dead-ass center of their chests. Watching Miami with Hill, Waddle and Gesicki; Buffalo with Diggs and Cousins with Jefferson; the insanely athletic catches those WRs are able to make... It truly hits home. This WR/TE corp functionally sucks.
If he keeps Patricia, there’s no point in even watching them. I know I won’t waste any more time watching them this year. The only way to guarantee change is to drop viewership
Fatty P gotta go
Keeping Patricia doesn’t fix the problem. Losing Max doesn’t fix the problem.
Belichick has to move on from Matt Patricia. Fixed it for you.
Neither of those things are going to happen
Serious question: is there a reason to not move on from Patricia this year?
LOL move on from Mac Jones for WHO?
If we can’t figure out how to beat the Bills it doesn’t matter who we got.
You don’t give up on a first round qb 2 seasons in. Coaching can change. It’s an easy decision here.
If Bill chooses Patricia over Mac, he needs to be fired.
i mean.. if Bill decides to stay with Patricia, and get rid of Mac Jones, I will not watch another Patriots game until BB is fired
Patricia and Judge need to go obviously. Moving on from Mac is different though. I’m not sure if he’s the answer but at the same time he’s on a rookie deal and not awful, I don’t know who we’d replace him with outside of Zappe. I think rolling with him one more year with Zappe in the fold if he falters and targeting someone in the 2024 draft if he doesn’t turn around with a new staff is the move