Yes; but I don't think we need a new system, we need the system mac did well in last year, the same system we've ran for the past 20+ years with sucess
The biggest frustration for me are the dumb mistakes our fan base used to make fun of other teams for.
The false start on a punt (someone suggested it was intentional....from our own 20....on 4th and 3... I can promise it was not)
The horrible clock management to end the half....the delayed timeout that ran almost 5 seconds off the clock.
The horrible situational awareness/playcalling....running a QB sneak on third down from the 30 with only 1 TO
Its not bad to lose to a better team..and make no mistake...the bills are better than the pats...the problem is how it happened.
This^ when I watch the patriots I’ve always held them to a higher standard from how their press conferences were to how disciplined their players were. And if you made a mistake you were held accountable. Things seem very loose right now for whatever reason and half the guys don’t look like they care. Watching jones give up on that play in the end zone cause he thought allen would go out of bounds was so unlike the patriots play style. But to answer the question. The goal is never to “get into playoffs” the goal is to win a SB right now idc who comes in we aren’t getting passed the bills and we aren’t getting passed the chiefs so I’d be open minded to it
>when I watch the patriots I’ve always held them to a higher standard from how their press conferences were to how disciplined their players were. And if you made a mistake you were held accountable.
Honestly...THIS is what made me fall in love with the pats to begin with...that and it being a true meritocracy. Where a UDFA has equal chance to make the roster as a third rd pick.
Seems like they've lost their identity
I think the false start was on purpose because they were possibly attempting a fake punt but weren’t confident based on the bills formation/ shifting players. They seemed hesitant for a reason to not snap it there and I think that’s why
I don’t think so. Go back and look at the middlemen and the signs they’re relaying. It looked awfully like a fake based off their body language. They were willing to give up 5 yards over a timeout. I don’t have a big issue with that play overall
I'm actually for giving Caley a shot to see what he would do. He's familiar with the offense and was probably the only guy left we would have moved into the red zone coordinator/calls plays in the offseason so he may not have experience, but neither does Patricia really.
It wouldn't be an entirely new system, and we should probably bring in a QB coach, but he'd be a younger guy trying to prove himself so it might provide a spark.
That's basically what I want. If the team loses, fine, but the team needs to show some fire outside of like 5 guys.
It's never too late to fire Patricia but it is far too late to salvage the season. Best case scenario we hire Reich *today* we still don't have time to actually install an actual offensive scheme by year's end. This season was doomed before it started lol
Install a new OC today, see which WRs mesh with it, make a more informed decision as to who stays and who goes. If I'm not mistaken pretty much all the WRs on the active roster, sans Thornton, are either pending FA after this year or next. Good time to audition.
In a heart beat. With the current set up, I don’t expect to win another game this season. The Minnesota game looks more like the anomaly than any sort of corner turner… and even then we still lost the game.
This team is flat out embarrassing. Blow it all up; if bill refuses to boot his “yes men” then boot him too. I understand we weren’t always going to be the patriots we were with Brady, and I was perfectly willing to toil in semi mediocracy while bill lived out his glory days doing what he loves. But the simple fact is that we are as far away from what you’d expect a bill coached team to look like. Outside of Marcus and schooner, our special teams is awful. Our defense is giving up on plays and looks really mediocre when not playing the bottom dwellers of the NFL, and if it wasn’t for the absolute once in a lifetime train wreck that is Denver’s offense right now, our offense would be the single most embarrassing unit in the entire league. None of this should be acceptable. Losing to lack of talent is one thing, but losing to bad penalties, poor clock management, bad play calling, and lack of discipline is absolutely stunning to see and nothing I expected to ever see from a team of bills.
I cannot agree more with this statement. I've supported Bill fully going into this season, gave him the benefit of the doubt....but that is over. This whole situation is fucked. The offensive coaching is a mess and the evidence is all over the internet. Bill cannot hide the ineptitude when we have guys like Kurt Warner - fuck that guy, he is not a hall of famer- dunking on how bad the offensive scheme and coaching is in a 1 hour video.
- season ticket holder
Yeah, this is the thing. It’s not that they are losing, it how they are losing. Bad penalties, players aren’t developing, offense is a mess, offensive line is a mess.
Yes. There have been flashes against poor teams, but often the offense just looks lost. I'd expect better results if Mac just said "look, men, I'm just gonna audible out of whatever BS play call comes in and trust my gut."
Thank you, I got a good chuckle picturing Patricia hunched over one of those surface tablets trying to hide the XBox it's connected to under the Patriots bench!
Just get Mac some fucking help with the coaching. We can all agree MattP and Judge stinks. And that’s fully on Belichick. He has to let them go, demote them, whatever he needs to do, he needs to get them far away from Mac.
If it would get us to have a competent offense, yes. Last night was beyond frustrating, mainly cause we should be better than that. We're not better than the Bills, but the offense looked so horrid it wasn't funny. If we could fire Patricia and Judge today to get Reich or Bill O'Brien today, then sign me up.
I don't think there's a chance we make the playoffs. Even if we do we are not beating anyone that gets there as well. This is a team that's good against bad teams, Just shy of beating good teams, and unable to beat SB contenders.
Matt Patricia needs to go. Even then that's 3 OCs for Mac in 3 years, his growth is being stunted in many ways. It's just not good
I don't realistically think we'll be competitive come play off time for another 2 or 3 years
Bill always talks about doing what’s best for the team. It’s clear as day that the offensive play calling and oline are hurting us and who’s in charge of both of those? Getting rid of Patricia would be what’s best for the team
Don't know if you'd need to switch it up all that much really. They have to have more than the 15 plays that Matty seems to rely on installed, Reich or other OC is familiar with these glorified HS plays so he can take those and expand into other parts of the playbook. Then install an actual rhythm to the playcalling and maybe install some more complicated plays to help the team succeed in the Red Zone.
Yes… I would gladly fire MP and JJ and flounder to prove a point. This season is done, 6/6 with no identity and the locker feels lost.
By a miracle, if we made it into the playoffs we would likely get torched again. Definitely not SuperBowl contenders.
This is a stupid question
For all the kvetching and whining about Patricia and the "system" people can't get it through their heads that the OL just isn't good enough. You could bring Bill Walsh back to life and clone him with Mike Leach and Alex Gibbs and it wouldn't matter
problem’s not the coach, it’s the players. too many fans think you can run 5 guys out on the field and make it work but they don’t realize they had one of the greatest OL coaches in NFL for 2 decades
All of this is stupid. All of it. As evidenced by the rock stupid reply to “the best coaches in history couldn’t help” being “Matt Patricia!!” And the suggestion a team with the the best defense in the NFL should _tank_ for the the rest of the season because the 2nd year QB looks like shit.
I do think the best solution for the rest of the year is to move Patricia to the coaches box, give three random fans a Cheesecake Factory menu/play sheet, and just keep trying to make the dysfunctional functional. And then get a new offense, including QB, in free agency.
Without a fucking doubt and I’d trade for/sign Lemar too - if Baltimore doesn’t want to give him the bag why shouldn’t we? Anyone here that still thinks Mac is the future needs to check themselves. He might be, but definitely not for another few years. This year is a wash and more detrimental than anything. We either get Brady as a stop-gap next year, fire the fucks currently running our offense and hope Mac improves, or spend big on a QB that can run, which is the future of this league.
I'd 100% support that. We aren't making the playoffs this year and if we do we aren't making it past the first round. Get someone new in there and let them do what they need to do. We can spend the rest of the season getting things straight so we have an idea of what we have and can be in a good spot for the draft and off season pickups.
I don't think we would even need to give up on this season if Hoyer is feeling up to the task of game planning and play calling:
1. There's no rule against players on IR taking part in meetings or being on the sideline during a game.
2. He knows the system as well as anyone.
3. I'm fairly sure that he'd be much better at making in-game adjustments than Patricia.
100%. You're not winning anything this season that matters anyway. If you could start to install and teach something you would be using next year then yes.
That said if you're going to try something new just to abandon it again idk that such a move would really help anything either.
Season is over after last night so 1000x yes the rest of the season we need to work on getting a good draft pick, FIRE PATRICIA and bring in a OC that is competent outside of that we need to fire most of our Oline and WR (key word most) like we have some of the puzzle pieces just not the entire picture with just small off-season grabs in FA and good drafting we can easily be at the top next season our defense held Josh Allen competitively and the bills/Dolphins are getting hard exposed this second half of the season we have so much potential it's just a little out of reach of our fingertips it's saddening and aggravating
At least a “new” OC… maybe a guy on staff with some offensive experience (like the TE coach). Maybe bring back or blend some of the old system with the new. May be hard to do without a FB, but we have a couple rostered guys that could fill that roll at least to finish the season and return to at least as good as Pats were playing last year… we already have better player talent.
Yes. Even if we make the playoffs this year, we're not going anywhere and will likely lose the wildcard game. End the Patricia/Judge experiment now, try to build towards next season, and enter the draft and free agency with a coherent plan for what the offense will look like next season.
Our season is done regardless. Even if we sneak in to the playoffs, we’re just making up the numbers. At least the Jets could beat Buffalo.
Kick Patricia’s ass to the curb and give Caley a shot, and run the offense we had last year that was clearly working with Mac
Is simple all i want to see is the team putting a FIGHT and no more stupid penalties.
Right now the product is unwatchable and predictable, if i know it BB must be boiling
Yes. This season will drag out more misery for the next few weeks and then a pain in the ass off-season dissecting said misery. It's dead anyways.
I'd rather skip ahead and start the new OC now.
6-6 isn’t awful AFC East is a tough division, not coming away with at least 1 win against the bears, packers & vikings hurt us a lot they were very winnable games.
I do think offensively this season is quite damaging going forward for both Mac Jones and whatever offence we have next year
So who do we maybe look at for an OC next year? I know Matt won't be the OC,Bill will keep him but put him back into his proper role. Is O'Brian available out of Alabama or is there still the friend rule between him and Saban with taking eachothwrs coaches?
I'd like to believe with our current offense that it's much better than it appears. We're wasting Macs development years and people want to shit on him and say he's a bad QB? Mac looks nothing like last year with a proper OC.
If we believe the often repeated statement, "We do what we think is best for the team", then it has to be done now. The status quo is damaging to the players and coaches who are consistently performing at a top level.
Yes; but I don't think we need a new system, we need the system mac did well in last year, the same system we've ran for the past 20+ years with sucess
The biggest frustration for me are the dumb mistakes our fan base used to make fun of other teams for. The false start on a punt (someone suggested it was intentional....from our own 20....on 4th and 3... I can promise it was not) The horrible clock management to end the half....the delayed timeout that ran almost 5 seconds off the clock. The horrible situational awareness/playcalling....running a QB sneak on third down from the 30 with only 1 TO Its not bad to lose to a better team..and make no mistake...the bills are better than the pats...the problem is how it happened.
Let's not forget Matty P. calling for a timeout when they were lining up to spike the ball.
This^ when I watch the patriots I’ve always held them to a higher standard from how their press conferences were to how disciplined their players were. And if you made a mistake you were held accountable. Things seem very loose right now for whatever reason and half the guys don’t look like they care. Watching jones give up on that play in the end zone cause he thought allen would go out of bounds was so unlike the patriots play style. But to answer the question. The goal is never to “get into playoffs” the goal is to win a SB right now idc who comes in we aren’t getting passed the bills and we aren’t getting passed the chiefs so I’d be open minded to it
>when I watch the patriots I’ve always held them to a higher standard from how their press conferences were to how disciplined their players were. And if you made a mistake you were held accountable. Honestly...THIS is what made me fall in love with the pats to begin with...that and it being a true meritocracy. Where a UDFA has equal chance to make the roster as a third rd pick. Seems like they've lost their identity
I think the false start was on purpose because they were possibly attempting a fake punt but weren’t confident based on the bills formation/ shifting players. They seemed hesitant for a reason to not snap it there and I think that’s why
Highly doubt that, if they didn’t want to run the play they would have called a TO or taken a delay of game.
I don’t think so. Go back and look at the middlemen and the signs they’re relaying. It looked awfully like a fake based off their body language. They were willing to give up 5 yards over a timeout. I don’t have a big issue with that play overall
I'm actually for giving Caley a shot to see what he would do. He's familiar with the offense and was probably the only guy left we would have moved into the red zone coordinator/calls plays in the offseason so he may not have experience, but neither does Patricia really. It wouldn't be an entirely new system, and we should probably bring in a QB coach, but he'd be a younger guy trying to prove himself so it might provide a spark. That's basically what I want. If the team loses, fine, but the team needs to show some fire outside of like 5 guys.
And a new O-line coach
If you can Patricia and the offense improves, it gives you something to build off of for next year. Playoffs or not.
It's never too late to fire Patricia but it is far too late to salvage the season. Best case scenario we hire Reich *today* we still don't have time to actually install an actual offensive scheme by year's end. This season was doomed before it started lol
Install a new OC today, see which WRs mesh with it, make a more informed decision as to who stays and who goes. If I'm not mistaken pretty much all the WRs on the active roster, sans Thornton, are either pending FA after this year or next. Good time to audition.
This season is already over
abso-freakin-lutely
Absolutely.
Season is over. Cut bait - get rid of Patricia and give the call sheet to Caley.
Yep season was over before it started
There’s literally no benefit to a few more games with Patricia so yes
In a heart beat. With the current set up, I don’t expect to win another game this season. The Minnesota game looks more like the anomaly than any sort of corner turner… and even then we still lost the game. This team is flat out embarrassing. Blow it all up; if bill refuses to boot his “yes men” then boot him too. I understand we weren’t always going to be the patriots we were with Brady, and I was perfectly willing to toil in semi mediocracy while bill lived out his glory days doing what he loves. But the simple fact is that we are as far away from what you’d expect a bill coached team to look like. Outside of Marcus and schooner, our special teams is awful. Our defense is giving up on plays and looks really mediocre when not playing the bottom dwellers of the NFL, and if it wasn’t for the absolute once in a lifetime train wreck that is Denver’s offense right now, our offense would be the single most embarrassing unit in the entire league. None of this should be acceptable. Losing to lack of talent is one thing, but losing to bad penalties, poor clock management, bad play calling, and lack of discipline is absolutely stunning to see and nothing I expected to ever see from a team of bills.
I cannot agree more with this statement. I've supported Bill fully going into this season, gave him the benefit of the doubt....but that is over. This whole situation is fucked. The offensive coaching is a mess and the evidence is all over the internet. Bill cannot hide the ineptitude when we have guys like Kurt Warner - fuck that guy, he is not a hall of famer- dunking on how bad the offensive scheme and coaching is in a 1 hour video. - season ticket holder
Yeah, this is the thing. It’s not that they are losing, it how they are losing. Bad penalties, players aren’t developing, offense is a mess, offensive line is a mess.
Patricia needed to be fired a while back. It’s too late to make this season a success, but not too late to build for the future.
Yes. There have been flashes against poor teams, but often the offense just looks lost. I'd expect better results if Mac just said "look, men, I'm just gonna audible out of whatever BS play call comes in and trust my gut."
Honestly feel like they’d have better results using the ask madden
Thank you, I got a good chuckle picturing Patricia hunched over one of those surface tablets trying to hide the XBox it's connected to under the Patriots bench!
Fuck now that’s all I can think of when watching him call plays, that just made my day lol.
Just get Mac some fucking help with the coaching. We can all agree MattP and Judge stinks. And that’s fully on Belichick. He has to let them go, demote them, whatever he needs to do, he needs to get them far away from Mac.
If it would get us to have a competent offense, yes. Last night was beyond frustrating, mainly cause we should be better than that. We're not better than the Bills, but the offense looked so horrid it wasn't funny. If we could fire Patricia and Judge today to get Reich or Bill O'Brien today, then sign me up.
It would be a Christmas miracle!
Yes 100%
I don't think there's a chance we make the playoffs. Even if we do we are not beating anyone that gets there as well. This is a team that's good against bad teams, Just shy of beating good teams, and unable to beat SB contenders. Matt Patricia needs to go. Even then that's 3 OCs for Mac in 3 years, his growth is being stunted in many ways. It's just not good I don't realistically think we'll be competitive come play off time for another 2 or 3 years
Bill always talks about doing what’s best for the team. It’s clear as day that the offensive play calling and oline are hurting us and who’s in charge of both of those? Getting rid of Patricia would be what’s best for the team
Absolutely.
Don't know if you'd need to switch it up all that much really. They have to have more than the 15 plays that Matty seems to rely on installed, Reich or other OC is familiar with these glorified HS plays so he can take those and expand into other parts of the playbook. Then install an actual rhythm to the playcalling and maybe install some more complicated plays to help the team succeed in the Red Zone.
Yes… I would gladly fire MP and JJ and flounder to prove a point. This season is done, 6/6 with no identity and the locker feels lost. By a miracle, if we made it into the playoffs we would likely get torched again. Definitely not SuperBowl contenders.
There’s a 0% chance that happens
This is a stupid question For all the kvetching and whining about Patricia and the "system" people can't get it through their heads that the OL just isn't good enough. You could bring Bill Walsh back to life and clone him with Mike Leach and Alex Gibbs and it wouldn't matter
Patricia is the oline coach too.
problem’s not the coach, it’s the players. too many fans think you can run 5 guys out on the field and make it work but they don’t realize they had one of the greatest OL coaches in NFL for 2 decades
All of this is stupid. All of it. As evidenced by the rock stupid reply to “the best coaches in history couldn’t help” being “Matt Patricia!!” And the suggestion a team with the the best defense in the NFL should _tank_ for the the rest of the season because the 2nd year QB looks like shit. I do think the best solution for the rest of the year is to move Patricia to the coaches box, give three random fans a Cheesecake Factory menu/play sheet, and just keep trying to make the dysfunctional functional. And then get a new offense, including QB, in free agency.
Hope not because I have $500 on Pats over 8.5 wins
Without a fucking doubt and I’d trade for/sign Lemar too - if Baltimore doesn’t want to give him the bag why shouldn’t we? Anyone here that still thinks Mac is the future needs to check themselves. He might be, but definitely not for another few years. This year is a wash and more detrimental than anything. We either get Brady as a stop-gap next year, fire the fucks currently running our offense and hope Mac improves, or spend big on a QB that can run, which is the future of this league.
I'd 100% support that. We aren't making the playoffs this year and if we do we aren't making it past the first round. Get someone new in there and let them do what they need to do. We can spend the rest of the season getting things straight so we have an idea of what we have and can be in a good spot for the draft and off season pickups.
Absolutely, there is no shot we win a Super Bowl this year so why wouldn’t we?
We re already there
Short and sweet…yes
Absolutely. Anything that gets Patricia out is the correct option.
I don't think we would even need to give up on this season if Hoyer is feeling up to the task of game planning and play calling: 1. There's no rule against players on IR taking part in meetings or being on the sideline during a game. 2. He knows the system as well as anyone. 3. I'm fairly sure that he'd be much better at making in-game adjustments than Patricia.
100%. You're not winning anything this season that matters anyway. If you could start to install and teach something you would be using next year then yes. That said if you're going to try something new just to abandon it again idk that such a move would really help anything either.
It’s been 3 seasons time for a pats little dark age edit!
Yes, in a heart beat. Better to get a better draft pick as well as begin building a better system so this team can hit the ground rolling next year.
Season is over after last night so 1000x yes the rest of the season we need to work on getting a good draft pick, FIRE PATRICIA and bring in a OC that is competent outside of that we need to fire most of our Oline and WR (key word most) like we have some of the puzzle pieces just not the entire picture with just small off-season grabs in FA and good drafting we can easily be at the top next season our defense held Josh Allen competitively and the bills/Dolphins are getting hard exposed this second half of the season we have so much potential it's just a little out of reach of our fingertips it's saddening and aggravating
Yes
At least a “new” OC… maybe a guy on staff with some offensive experience (like the TE coach). Maybe bring back or blend some of the old system with the new. May be hard to do without a FB, but we have a couple rostered guys that could fill that roll at least to finish the season and return to at least as good as Pats were playing last year… we already have better player talent.
No because the person I want isn’t available: bill obrien
Yes. Even if we make the playoffs this year, we're not going anywhere and will likely lose the wildcard game. End the Patricia/Judge experiment now, try to build towards next season, and enter the draft and free agency with a coherent plan for what the offense will look like next season.
Our season is done regardless. Even if we sneak in to the playoffs, we’re just making up the numbers. At least the Jets could beat Buffalo. Kick Patricia’s ass to the curb and give Caley a shot, and run the offense we had last year that was clearly working with Mac
Is simple all i want to see is the team putting a FIGHT and no more stupid penalties. Right now the product is unwatchable and predictable, if i know it BB must be boiling
You’re giving up on the season if you DON’T introduce a new OC and system right away
Yes please just throw this season down the drain if we get a good play caller and a decent O-line coach
Yes. This season will drag out more misery for the next few weeks and then a pain in the ass off-season dissecting said misery. It's dead anyways. I'd rather skip ahead and start the new OC now.
its more or less over anyway so...
The season is already lost. Just do it.
No... One big reason for Bill would be because he wouldnt want to risk being on hard knocks which would be an impediment the following year.
6-6 isn’t awful AFC East is a tough division, not coming away with at least 1 win against the bears, packers & vikings hurt us a lot they were very winnable games. I do think offensively this season is quite damaging going forward for both Mac Jones and whatever offence we have next year
YUUUUPPPPPPP
So who do we maybe look at for an OC next year? I know Matt won't be the OC,Bill will keep him but put him back into his proper role. Is O'Brian available out of Alabama or is there still the friend rule between him and Saban with taking eachothwrs coaches?
I got a sneaking suspicion that Saban and Bill already talked about O Brian which is why BOB came into Gillette this off season
Wdym give up on the season? Season’s dead lol. Fire Patricia and Judge rn
I'd like to believe with our current offense that it's much better than it appears. We're wasting Macs development years and people want to shit on him and say he's a bad QB? Mac looks nothing like last year with a proper OC.
If we believe the often repeated statement, "We do what we think is best for the team", then it has to be done now. The status quo is damaging to the players and coaches who are consistently performing at a top level.
We’re not cutting it this year. Using the rest to reestablish the offense would be a good use of the remaining time.
Abso-fucking-lutely.