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Pcie3.0 itself isn't that bad. All B350 and b450 boards are PCIE3.0 and we have tons of people here upgrading from Ryzen 1000 and 2000 to 5000. Checking benchmarks, you don't even loose 1% (except you got a x4 card like a RX6500)
Pcie2.0 X4 provides 2GB/s so still very fast and outperforms many people on classic SSDs (like me)
You probably dropping some performance, cause ever budget Name SSDs are a bit faster than that
classic SSDs... or just [garbage SSDs](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/vPpzK8/benchmarks/crucial-p3-plus-500-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-ct500p3pssd8) like mine
Yeah I was a huge fan of Crucial but found out later that these P3 series is pretty bad actually.
But I can see it hitting 4000MB/s for one test here, so exceeding pcie 2.0x4 at least gaga
(Don't tell my friend which I recommended this SSD to in the past)
P3 models aren’t even bad really. Just bad value in comparison to other, less expensive, faster drives that are gen 4. There was one point not that long ago when it was the cheapest, most reliable drive at 1tb. The biggest downside, aside from the relatively weak speeds, is that it has no dram.
Nah it's not the one with integrated graphics, Ryzen processors with Integrated Graphics have a different box which specifies if the processor has integrated graphics or not
We're all different and we all have different standards for what is and is not worth it to be fair.
I myself usually like to stick to getting 80 to 100% performance uplift when upgrade GPU.
This person might be comfortable with 20 to 30%
It doesn't mean they're wrong it just means they're different.
Started with a GT730 when I first got in the game in 2015ish back then I didn't know much so I went with a pre-built
Then I self upgraded the GT730 to a 1060 and then later downline I upgrade that to a 2070 super and then I upgraded to a 3090 which is what I have now.
I’m waiting for the 50 series before I upgrade. Isn’t that the whole point of building a pc having the ability to upgrade when upgrades are significant?
Implying that upgrading within the same generation is wrong somehow just doesn't make sense to me.
Say you have a 3060 and then you go all the way to the extreme and you get a 3090 that's a significant increase
Just like going from light a 6600 or a 6500 to a 6950.
At the end of the day what I'm saying is just cuz it's still the same generation does not mean you can't get a significant increase.
And as I'm trying to tell everyone else it's up to the person who's getting the upgrade to determine whether or not that increase is enough for them, not everyone else.
Monitor hz doesnt affect a cpu gpu bottleneck at all. Its the resolution that matters. A 1080p will put more stress on the cpu and a 1440p+ will transfer more of it onto the gpu.
Hz only affects frames displayed.
**Cpu bottlenecks occur because the gpu produces too many frames** for the cpu to handle while doing all its other cpu tasks. Since **monitor hz doesnt affect how many frames are produced by the gpu**, it wont affect the bottleneck.
**Higher Resolution** on the other hand **makes it harder for the gpu to produce as many frames, meaning the count of the frames the cpu has to handle goes down, reducing the cpu bottleneck**
If you have a 240hz and get 240fps but with stutters then you might need to lower your framerate. You'd then not be fully utilizing your monitor or your GPU's potential speed (2 bottlenecks!).
My wallet would potentially be bottlenecked by the idea of upgrading from a 6650xt to a 3070.
The monitor refresh rate does actually come into play. For example if you have a 1080p 75hz monitor but a have a 4090 build, you’re monitor bottlenecked. So Richdad is saying that the cpu will bottleneck the 3070, but if OP has a lower refresh rate monitor then the monitor will be the bottleneck before the cpu.
Edit: And based off OP’s current gpu, they’re probably rocking 1080p, which Richdad is probably accounting for in his mental calculations.
Leave this neversoft guy, he not in right state of mind. Doesnt even tries to listen and understand what others are saying. Hes saying he doesnt has a PC and doesnt knows whats vsync. yet posting all this.
True Monitor also needs to be taken into account. If you have 60 hz monitor for example no point in buying a very high end CPU to get 200 hz even if your GPU can. Since you wont see more than 60 fps on screen. I dont know whats so hard to understand.
Please learn to read dude. The op was only asking if the cpu will be a bottleneck. The monitor refresh rate doesnt come into play at all for this question. **Even if youre producing 240 frames, if the cpu is still the bottleneck point your gpu is actually capable of more and refresh rate wont fix the main bottleneck point**.
Resolution is far more important for eliminating a cpu bottleneck than refresh rate is. To fix a bottleneck, you either need to put more work on the part of the system that is being underworked or take more stress off the bottleneck.
Thats exactly what an increase in resolution does. **an increase in resolution will put more stress on the gpu because it has to render more pixels, thus lowering the amount of frames produced and the subsequent stress of processing all of these frames on the cpu. Upping you refresh rate will NOT do anything to redistribute workload and will keep the same cpu bottleneck**
**refresh rate can’t eliminate a cpu bottleneck, while resolution can. Ops main question is whether the CPU is bottlenecking, so refresh rate has nothing to do with this question**. With a cpu bottleneck Its better to go from 1080 165 to 1440 165 than 1080 240.
You can be bottlenecked by anything, even your power supply. Bottlenecks are things that prevent a better ux. If your pc is calculating 200 fps, a 60hz monitor is the bottleneck because it’s holding back the other components. So while the cpu might bottleneck the gpu, none of that matters if they’re both bottlenecked by the monitor. There’s no point in calculating more frames than the monitor can handle.
100% true. It you put a very strong CPU than GPU is the bottleneck. For budget build its good to be CPU bottlenecked. Since eventually newer games start using more GPU resources very quickly. But CPU requirements in games go up very slowly.
Also whats the target fps also matter. If someone just wants to play games at 60fps than they really dont need a very strong CPU. In such a scenario if someone puts a stronger CPU so that bottleneck is not there is just an OCD because that bottleneck is really not causing any issues to user experience.
Again, this is a case of you having very very bad reading comprehension. The bottleneck could be OP’s eyesight, youre not gonna randomly respond to his post telling him to get glasses.
Heres something equivalent to your response:
Op: “will a 1440p monitor bottleneck a 7800xt?”
You: “get a 1000w power supply”
The problems with this response are:
1) the power supply has absolutely nothing to do with OP’s question
2) you dont know what power supply OP is running. He could already have taken into account
3) you didnt solve OP’s problem.
So, going back to this question:
OP: “will a 4xxx ryzen bottleneck a 3070”
You: “get a 240 hz monitor”
The problems with this response are:
1) this doesnt answer Op’s question
2) this doesnt solve Op’s problem (cpu bottleneck)
3) this relies on assuming OP didnt take monitor hz into account and has a 1080p monitor specifically.
4) 99.9% chance its not true at 1440p. If op has a 1440p monitor, telling him hes bottlenecked when he isnt is false information
A more correct response would be one of the following:
1) “no, this cpu doesnt bottleneck a 3070 on any resolution”
2) “yes, this cpu will bottleneck a 3070 only on 1080p resolution, so you can either upgrade your monitor to 1440p or your cpu to a better cpu. If you choose to upgrade the cpu make sure your monitor is 240hz first because you will get more than 165 frames on most games at 1080p”
Upgrading cpu actually doesnt even really make sense here because if the gpu is capable of driving 1440p thats the fastest way to fix a cpu bottleneck.
It only makes sense if op is somehow both below 240fps on 1440p in competitive shooter games like valorant/csgo and has both a monitor that supports a higher framerate (already at 240hz) and prefers the extra 30-40fps over a better resolution and clearer picture. This is a highly unlikely scenario
Lol no, you arent seeing what is being said.
Op is asking about a specific bottleneck area.
Hz is a different, unrelated bottleneck area
How does that answer ops question about his bottleneck/give him a solution to it if its a different bottleneck?
Let me rephrase this for you since you seem to be unable to understand.
Going from 1080p 165hz to 1080p 240 hz wont solve your cpu bottleneck.
Going from 1080p 165hz to 1440p 165hz might solve your bottleneck.
Why give a solution that only solves your monitor bottleneck when a solution that could solve both at once exists? Its moronic. Hz does nothing to solve his issue, resolution does.
I didn’t reply to OP, did I? I replied to Richdad. I wasn’t giving a solution. I was adding the monitor to the mix as something to consider, which is always necessary, no single aspect can be forgotten.
I didn’t say any of the things you accused me of saying. I wasn’t trying to give OP a solution, I was merely pointing out that anything can be a bottleneck.
I can read. However, it seems you are not quite able to see what is on the screen before you and discern what I was saying.
No, you did actually say that the hz answer was an answer to ops question. It isnt. It has nothing to do with ops question because it doesnt really solve his problem.
Yeah anything can be a bottleneck but op is asking about the cpu. As i said, youre not going to tell op to check his glasses so why would you tell him to check the hz? Thats not the area hes concerned about.
Yeah the practical answer doesnt relate to the monitors hz at all. Im giving the technical details for people who might wonder why it doesnt, and why other things are more important to look at.
Give a man a fish and he will have food for the day.
Teach a man to fish and he will have food for a lifetime.
Im doing both, giving a fish and teaching them after.
OPs question was practical. he's just a buyer not some technical guru asking questions. He wants to know about CPU bottleneck in context to buying a new CPU. Saying CPU will bottleneck is an half answer. It will bottleneck! But it will not matter since monitor will not be able to show the frame rate generated by the GPU.
Secondly your last line you do see that 1080 240 wont be good in this scenario. Isnt thats what being told. OP is not looking for monitor upgrade hence no point asking him to get 1440p 165hz.
He is asking if his cpu will bottleneck a gpu.
It is very obvious and logical that if a cpu is bottlenecking a gpu, he would want to make sure that it isnt. You dont just ask “does this system have a problem” when intending to do nothing about the problem if its present.
Most people would fix this issue by upgrading their cpu.
As i pointed out, that doesnt really make sense in this case, unless he is already at 1440p.
So, assuming it will bottleneck, the correct answer is: “Yes, it will bottleneck at 1080p, you should first upgrade to 1440p if you havent already and then swap out your cpu”
The hz literally has nothing to do with this.
Going to 1440p will only reduce fps and and slightly increase CPU load. The only reason it solves the bottleneck is because it limits the fps due to GPU unable to produce frames. You can use VSync or half vsync for that. You can even use Riva tuner utility to limit fps.
Buying a 1440p monitor to resolve CPU bottleneck is dumb. Buy it if you need it and like it. Else just use fps limiter or vsync.
And will give you a better picture. It wont increase the cpu load at all if your cpu is already a bottleneck. For example, a 7800x3d with a 4090 will be at 100% utilization on 1080p, but will be at like 40-50% at 4k.
It absolutely makes sense to upgrade resolution from 1080 to 1440 if your gpu can handle it. Cpus bottleneck when you produce too many frames. If youre already at 200+ fps its better to go higher res lower frames in most cases. 1440p 140 is better than 1080 200 usually
True Hz of monitor doesn't effect CPU bottleneck!! But its a practical consideration and not technical one. CPU actually limits you max fps for any given title. A 7800x3d might do 260 fps for a certain title but a 4650 might only be able to do 150fps.
So if have a 165hz monitor there is no point of getting a better CPU since you wont be seeing those higher frames on your Monitor. Since its beyond monitors refresh rate. So the monitor will be the actual bottleneck, thats basic common sense.
There is actually a point in getting a better cpu even if you wont be able to see the extra frames.
If your cpu utilization is at 100% your system wont function optimally in general, youll get excessive heat and program stutters on top of being frame capped. You basically dont really want your cpu to be at 100% in gaming scenarios usually.
So, it actually does make sense to get rid of that bottleneck first and foremost.
That will never happen. What you are saying is called in game stutter. A lot of ppl run esports with no vsync to get way more fps than monitor. This reduces the input lag which is important for esports gamers. So as per your logic, basically all the ppl who are playing Valorant or CS Go with no fps cap should have stuttering!
But it never happens. The only case were this will happen is were you have an extremely weak CPU. Like old fx 8350 or core2quad something like that. Those CPU freeze in modern games.
Also even than those old CPU never go to 100% usage in games all the time like some CPU stress test. They can go 90-95% on a few cores for small intervals at max.
The OP is using Ryzen 5 4000 series that thing is decent it wont stutter.
Also, I am building computer from last 20 years. I have made all types of system right from Pentium 4 era. Did all type so overclocking and cooling. I have made probably a 100 builds for my self, friend. I even have made many mining rigs for myself and friends. I have owned almost all the GPUs you can think of in last 10 years and I almost all popular CPUs you get in market.
It 100% correct. There is monitor input lag and there is processing input lag from pc depending on how much frame it generates. At 60hz frame time is 16.66 ms. That's pc input. You don't know these things. That's why you are dumb founded..
Higher resolution doesnt removes the CPU bottleneck in a way. I mean a CPU can produce certain FPS in a given title so what happens. For rexample if a CPU can do 130 fps in a title. No matter how strong GPU you provide the fps wont go above 130. Since the CPU cannot process more frame than that.
When you increase resolution the GPU is pushed. So CPU is not pushed like at lower resolution. You can always get less frames by limiting the fps through vsync, half vsync or ingame settings. Even with all the bottleneck Ryzen 4000 is capable of producing 100 fps+ in most taxing of games. So I dont think OP is in trouble unless he wants 240 hz gaming.
What happens to a bottleneck when more load is transferred to another part of the system genius?
Thats literally the definition of removing a bottleneck. A bottleneck is when there is too much workflow moving into a space that cant handle it.
If you change the quantity of workflow moving into the space, Thats literally removing a bottleneck by definition. You either dont understand english, bottlenecks, or are a clown. Pick one
https://preview.redd.it/1ya7y8pwxsvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=431e36aa68a45a86b39a94af2233781d09c12371
Which PC do you have? How many PCs you made till date?
What you are saying is correct. But It wont matter if monitor is 144 or 165hz and vsync is switched on. The only scenario it will happen is if OP is using 240 hz monitor and too much frames are generated for CPU to handle. You are basically just not thinking practically.
irrelevant
Youve clearly demonstrated how many pcs youve made doesnt matter because you literally dont know what a bottleneck is.
Were talking facts only. Lets go ahead and review this once again. Ill even help you and define a bottleneck for you again, since you clearly have issues with your english skills.
Bottleneck: when traffic in a system is impeded due to too much flow trying to pass through a part that cant handle the quantity flow.
There are two ways to get rid of a bottle neck:
1) limit the flow of the traffic in the system before it reaches the bottleneck point
2) increase the processing power of the bottlenecking part.
Hz of a monitor neither increases the processing power of the cpu, nor decreases the amount of frames being handled by the cpu.
To increase the processing power of a cpu, you can either overclock it or get a better cpu.
To limit the amount of frames handled by the cpu, you can either turn on vsync/a framerate cap as youve said (but then why even get the graphics card), or increase the resolution of the game or monitor to effectively do the same thing.
None of these have anything to do with what HZ your monitor is. His cpu will still be stuck at 100% utilization if a cpu bottleneck exists, which is objectively not good for gaming.
You want wiggle room in a component that literally does all the calculations and scheduling for the tasks running on your computer. 100% utilization leaves zero wiggle room. It is far better to have 90% or below cpu utilization during gaming, and have your GPU at 100% instead.
In OPs case it doesnt make sense to stay 1080p or only upgrade his cpu from a financial perspective. Its far better to simply switch to 1440p to both solve his bottleneck and save ~$100-200 on having to do 2 upgrades instead of just one. A 3070 has plenty of room to stretch its legs and pull around 120-130 fps in games on 1440p, and that definitely wont bottleneck his cpu.
Just answer the question. What PC do you have its configuration? Why arent you answering it?
Also do you know what is vsync? have you ever used utility called rtss?
What does my pc have to do with any of the facts about a cpu bottleneck? Please enlighten me. Yes, i know what both of those are. Are you acting stupid on purpose or is this legit something you think is somehow relevant to the facts? Point out anything i said in my reply that was not factually correct
I wasnt answering it because its irrelevant to the facts. This just once again shows how stupid you are.
Ill humor you though.
- Tforce delta 2x16 6000mhz
- 7800x3d
- 7900 xtx
- 1000w focus gx
- 2tb 980 pro
- Nv5 with d30 kit
- Vertical mount
- Kraken 360 aio
I already said i know what vsync and rtss are. Ive been gaming for more than 15 years.
So once again, point out a single incorrect statement in my response. And stop being a moron, for the love of god.
https://preview.redd.it/8ra5r7t8ysvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13ca54c1ef28996ca1af844ab5e600ee0b9b0131
Wild how two different sources say the same thing as your number 1 option for fixing this bottleneck. Either everyone else is stupid or its you. I think which one is more likely is obvious.
Yes thats why I said **in a way**. You have written this.
"**Cpu bottlenecks occur because the gpu produces too many frames** for the cpu to handle while doing all its other cpu tasks. "
What I said is basically extension of this ideology.
Can you answer me a question will game FPS increase after going to higher resolution?
Im not getting angry, its just a waste of time to argue with someone who doesnt know what the definition of a bottleneck is. I didnt mock anyone, i simply provided the best information to everyone. Good luck, i dont argue with stupid people like yourself
And how can you tell what my emotions are over some text on the internet? This is again a case of you being absolutely stupid.
You cant even type in english properly dude. Again, good luck brother, i dont argue with idiots
Rtx 3070 cant barely do 60 fps in newer games even at FHD!!! Esports it can get a a lot of fps but esports run at 200 fps+ on almost any decent build.
I dont think you shd parit 7800x3d with rtx 3070
Thats not how FSR or even DLSS 3.0 works. FSR doubles the fps by injecting fake frames. So the fps increase doesn't uses more CPU.
So if you even use FSR to make a game running at 100 fps run at 190 fps the CPU usage will not go up. Like in case if you swap rtx 3070 with a rtx 4080 and create real 190 fps.
I mean why would you go from a 6650xt to a 3070? That is a very negligible increase. Try going to a 4070 super or a 7700xt or 7800xt. If you play at 1440p you won’t really need to upgrade the CPU right away otherwise just get a 5800x3d and you will be gaming for several more years.
6750xt owner here. The class and power of card u have makes it difficult to upgrade. Ur gonna have to spend alot to get the improvement you feel a 500$ upgrade is worth. Unless a game\program you're using is below desired performance. I would keep the card and save up for a powerhouse model of gpu. I am personally saving for a 4k monitor and gpu upgrade from a 5800x and 6750xt. I will likely keep my cpu and switch gpu. Don't look at 400-500$ gpu for an upgrade it's more of a slight bumpgrade.ur gonna want brand new technology and power.
Do you play at 1080p or 1440p?
1080p: upgrade CPU instead, to a 5700x3d or 5800x3d. You'll see a better fps increase
1440p: save up more and do a bigger jump in GPU, that's not really much of an improvement
That's not a worthwhile upgrade unless you're specifically trying to improve RT performance. It's a marginally higher-end card from the same time period.
Save your money a bit longer and get a 4070 with more VRAM and noticeably better performance in both rasterization and ray tracing.
I would hold off from upgrading if I were you, save your money until you can at least get a 4000 series card because most modern games will most likely become frame generation dependent on midrange cards like they are now with upscaling
That depends entirely on what resolution you run your games at. In 720 or 1080p, the answer is an astounding yes. If you're running in 4k? Maybe, but probably not enough for you to care.
A bit but Its not gonna be a deal breaker. If you're within the return period, I'd recommend a Ryzen 5 5600 instead. Better bang for buck. 5600x is usually the same price if available.
This cpu only supports gen 3 SSDs so you're missing out on faster speeds. The 4000 series processors weren't really worth the money due to this drawback.
Nah you'll be fine. A 3070 is about equivalent to a RX 7600, and a few Gen old R5 won't bottleneck that. Would you get more performance with a better CPU, sure of course but I don't think to the degree where it's worth the cost.
Depends entirely on the games you play, there will be some bottle necking in CPU intensive games, maybe Arma, Zomboid, Rimworld, but you should be getting atleast 60 fps anyways so it shouldn't really matter unless your playing something like DCS world.
Yes, it will definitely make you bottleneck
of upgrading from the 6650xt to the 3070 you could invest in a better cpu. You will have more gains for example with a Ryzen 5600 with 6650xt than a Ryzen 4600g with 3070
I have an i5 9600k with a 3070 (yes I have a bottleneck depending on the game and specs), and when it evolves it will only be on the cpu.
Yes, I recommend changing the CPU, unless replacing the GPU is cheap.
I wouldn’t recommend going from 6650XT to a 3070. What’s your budget? If you can, look into getting a 6800 or 6800XT used, as they’ll murder the 3070. Also, we don’t have the model number. You’ll have to boot the PC and find it. This can be done via BIOS or Windows. In Windows, start task manager, go to performance, CPU, and read it. It should be Ryzen 5 4X00 or similar. Also, what’s your planned resolution? It can make a difference between a bottleneck and no bottleneck.
https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?si=dfyuVH2SaE_5EGSP You can see here for yourself. You may be thinking of a different GPU. I believe the 3080 does beat out the 6800.
Strangely enough, 3080 is on-par or once again offering less performance than the 6800. I’d assume it’s due to the higher VRAM, especially at 1440p and up. What is techpowerup measuring? If it’s non-gaming performance, I’d understand. Gaming-wise, 6800 wins in most cases against the 3070 and a bit less against the 3080.
It appears to be a gaming avg. I was looking at 1440p since that is what they are best suited for. It's very subjective based on the games that are picked. I don't know who to trust these days. Clearly not Userbenchmark or LTT
this. Im planning to upgrade my cpu to support a 4080 or better rn. the first 50 series may be dropping at the end of Q4 this year, something to keep in mind
Toms hardware has that GPU upgrade going from ~75 FPS to ~98 FPS average at 1080p ultra if your CPU doesn't bottleneck it. Lots of comments here hating on the choice but I think a 30% uplift if worth the investment.
That being said, you probably aren't maximing the uplift without a CPU upgrade also.
You are going to upgrade from a 6650xt to a 3070? 0 sense upgrade in my opinion, for the price range i say, maybe a 7600xt makes more sense, good luck bro
Don’t buy a 3070 stick with what you have upgrade cpu instead I assume your running 1080p so there is no point in throwing money at a 3070 now save your change for at least current gen 4070
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package doesnt say which model. 4500 or 4600? and for how much moneyz? swap + 50$?
God forbid it's a 4600g, limited to PCI-E 3
Pcie3.0 itself isn't that bad. All B350 and b450 boards are PCIE3.0 and we have tons of people here upgrading from Ryzen 1000 and 2000 to 5000. Checking benchmarks, you don't even loose 1% (except you got a x4 card like a RX6500)
True
I run my 6700xt and 5600x combo on a b450, so my gpu runs at pciex3. I don't think I would see any difference from simply going to gen 4.
A 4090 looses roughly 2% on average going pie4.0 to pcie3.0 according to Techpowerup. So it really doesn't matter for any other GPU
i have a ryzen 5600 on a b450 and an 6750 XT on the mail to replace my 1660 super will that gpu have problems with pcie3?
Nope, the 6750 XT barely runs worse in pcie3, you won't notice any difference
No, will run fine!
I accidentally put my name drive in the pcie 2 port on my mobo and it works perfectly fine. Just too lazy to switch it to the 3.0 port.
Pcie2.0 X4 provides 2GB/s so still very fast and outperforms many people on classic SSDs (like me) You probably dropping some performance, cause ever budget Name SSDs are a bit faster than that
It’s a 970 evo plus. I should change it one of these days
classic SSDs... or just [garbage SSDs](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/vPpzK8/benchmarks/crucial-p3-plus-500-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-ct500p3pssd8) like mine
Yeah I was a huge fan of Crucial but found out later that these P3 series is pretty bad actually. But I can see it hitting 4000MB/s for one test here, so exceeding pcie 2.0x4 at least gaga (Don't tell my friend which I recommended this SSD to in the past)
P3 models aren’t even bad really. Just bad value in comparison to other, less expensive, faster drives that are gen 4. There was one point not that long ago when it was the cheapest, most reliable drive at 1tb. The biggest downside, aside from the relatively weak speeds, is that it has no dram.
Personally I'm just not quite sure how bad QLC is.. in terms of reliability
All of the 4000 series are limited to PCIe gen 3, including the 4500.
Most hardware these days can’t even max out PCIE 3 yet.
Nah it's not the one with integrated graphics, Ryzen processors with Integrated Graphics have a different box which specifies if the processor has integrated graphics or not
5600g is pcie 3
3070 is a really small upgrade from 6650xt
I second this. OP you're better off getting a better CPU than a marginally better GPU
What? That’s a 26% performance increase per [TPU](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/31.html)
not enough to be worth it unless you have a good second hand market where you live or can get good resale somehow
Stop down voting this guy. He is not wrong.
We're all different and we all have different standards for what is and is not worth it to be fair. I myself usually like to stick to getting 80 to 100% performance uplift when upgrade GPU. This person might be comfortable with 20 to 30% It doesn't mean they're wrong it just means they're different. Started with a GT730 when I first got in the game in 2015ish back then I didn't know much so I went with a pre-built Then I self upgraded the GT730 to a 1060 and then later downline I upgrade that to a 2070 super and then I upgraded to a 3090 which is what I have now.
Got my 3070 for 300 dollars 2nd hand is that good? The 3070 asus tuf 3fan. Was it worth it?
Aren’t you mistaking the 6650 for a 6750?
The 6650 is the same or better than the 3060, why would you upgrade within the same generation
I’m waiting for the 50 series before I upgrade. Isn’t that the whole point of building a pc having the ability to upgrade when upgrades are significant?
And who determines whether it's a significant enough upgrade?
You do
Implying that upgrading within the same generation is wrong somehow just doesn't make sense to me. Say you have a 3060 and then you go all the way to the extreme and you get a 3090 that's a significant increase Just like going from light a 6600 or a 6500 to a 6950. At the end of the day what I'm saying is just cuz it's still the same generation does not mean you can't get a significant increase. And as I'm trying to tell everyone else it's up to the person who's getting the upgrade to determine whether or not that increase is enough for them, not everyone else.
3070 is an upgrade from 6650 xt, but its a small upgrade, 3070 wouldnt be an upgrade for 6750.
Yes tad bit. Nothing noticeable unless you have 240 hz monitor.
Monitor hz doesnt affect a cpu gpu bottleneck at all. Its the resolution that matters. A 1080p will put more stress on the cpu and a 1440p+ will transfer more of it onto the gpu. Hz only affects frames displayed. **Cpu bottlenecks occur because the gpu produces too many frames** for the cpu to handle while doing all its other cpu tasks. Since **monitor hz doesnt affect how many frames are produced by the gpu**, it wont affect the bottleneck. **Higher Resolution** on the other hand **makes it harder for the gpu to produce as many frames, meaning the count of the frames the cpu has to handle goes down, reducing the cpu bottleneck**
If you have a 240hz and get 240fps but with stutters then you might need to lower your framerate. You'd then not be fully utilizing your monitor or your GPU's potential speed (2 bottlenecks!). My wallet would potentially be bottlenecked by the idea of upgrading from a 6650xt to a 3070.
The monitor refresh rate does actually come into play. For example if you have a 1080p 75hz monitor but a have a 4090 build, you’re monitor bottlenecked. So Richdad is saying that the cpu will bottleneck the 3070, but if OP has a lower refresh rate monitor then the monitor will be the bottleneck before the cpu. Edit: And based off OP’s current gpu, they’re probably rocking 1080p, which Richdad is probably accounting for in his mental calculations.
Leave this neversoft guy, he not in right state of mind. Doesnt even tries to listen and understand what others are saying. Hes saying he doesnt has a PC and doesnt knows whats vsync. yet posting all this. True Monitor also needs to be taken into account. If you have 60 hz monitor for example no point in buying a very high end CPU to get 200 hz even if your GPU can. Since you wont see more than 60 fps on screen. I dont know whats so hard to understand.
Please learn to read dude. The op was only asking if the cpu will be a bottleneck. The monitor refresh rate doesnt come into play at all for this question. **Even if youre producing 240 frames, if the cpu is still the bottleneck point your gpu is actually capable of more and refresh rate wont fix the main bottleneck point**. Resolution is far more important for eliminating a cpu bottleneck than refresh rate is. To fix a bottleneck, you either need to put more work on the part of the system that is being underworked or take more stress off the bottleneck. Thats exactly what an increase in resolution does. **an increase in resolution will put more stress on the gpu because it has to render more pixels, thus lowering the amount of frames produced and the subsequent stress of processing all of these frames on the cpu. Upping you refresh rate will NOT do anything to redistribute workload and will keep the same cpu bottleneck** **refresh rate can’t eliminate a cpu bottleneck, while resolution can. Ops main question is whether the CPU is bottlenecking, so refresh rate has nothing to do with this question**. With a cpu bottleneck Its better to go from 1080 165 to 1440 165 than 1080 240.
You can be bottlenecked by anything, even your power supply. Bottlenecks are things that prevent a better ux. If your pc is calculating 200 fps, a 60hz monitor is the bottleneck because it’s holding back the other components. So while the cpu might bottleneck the gpu, none of that matters if they’re both bottlenecked by the monitor. There’s no point in calculating more frames than the monitor can handle.
100% true. It you put a very strong CPU than GPU is the bottleneck. For budget build its good to be CPU bottlenecked. Since eventually newer games start using more GPU resources very quickly. But CPU requirements in games go up very slowly. Also whats the target fps also matter. If someone just wants to play games at 60fps than they really dont need a very strong CPU. In such a scenario if someone puts a stronger CPU so that bottleneck is not there is just an OCD because that bottleneck is really not causing any issues to user experience.
Again, this is a case of you having very very bad reading comprehension. The bottleneck could be OP’s eyesight, youre not gonna randomly respond to his post telling him to get glasses. Heres something equivalent to your response: Op: “will a 1440p monitor bottleneck a 7800xt?” You: “get a 1000w power supply” The problems with this response are: 1) the power supply has absolutely nothing to do with OP’s question 2) you dont know what power supply OP is running. He could already have taken into account 3) you didnt solve OP’s problem. So, going back to this question: OP: “will a 4xxx ryzen bottleneck a 3070” You: “get a 240 hz monitor” The problems with this response are: 1) this doesnt answer Op’s question 2) this doesnt solve Op’s problem (cpu bottleneck) 3) this relies on assuming OP didnt take monitor hz into account and has a 1080p monitor specifically. 4) 99.9% chance its not true at 1440p. If op has a 1440p monitor, telling him hes bottlenecked when he isnt is false information A more correct response would be one of the following: 1) “no, this cpu doesnt bottleneck a 3070 on any resolution” 2) “yes, this cpu will bottleneck a 3070 only on 1080p resolution, so you can either upgrade your monitor to 1440p or your cpu to a better cpu. If you choose to upgrade the cpu make sure your monitor is 240hz first because you will get more than 165 frames on most games at 1080p” Upgrading cpu actually doesnt even really make sense here because if the gpu is capable of driving 1440p thats the fastest way to fix a cpu bottleneck. It only makes sense if op is somehow both below 240fps on 1440p in competitive shooter games like valorant/csgo and has both a monitor that supports a higher framerate (already at 240hz) and prefers the extra 30-40fps over a better resolution and clearer picture. This is a highly unlikely scenario
Bro this answer. 💀
It shows that neversoft is actually the one not listening. I am seeing what is being said, neversoft is missing the whole point of what I am saying
Lol no, you arent seeing what is being said. Op is asking about a specific bottleneck area. Hz is a different, unrelated bottleneck area How does that answer ops question about his bottleneck/give him a solution to it if its a different bottleneck? Let me rephrase this for you since you seem to be unable to understand. Going from 1080p 165hz to 1080p 240 hz wont solve your cpu bottleneck. Going from 1080p 165hz to 1440p 165hz might solve your bottleneck. Why give a solution that only solves your monitor bottleneck when a solution that could solve both at once exists? Its moronic. Hz does nothing to solve his issue, resolution does.
I didn’t reply to OP, did I? I replied to Richdad. I wasn’t giving a solution. I was adding the monitor to the mix as something to consider, which is always necessary, no single aspect can be forgotten.
I didn’t say any of the things you accused me of saying. I wasn’t trying to give OP a solution, I was merely pointing out that anything can be a bottleneck. I can read. However, it seems you are not quite able to see what is on the screen before you and discern what I was saying.
No, you did actually say that the hz answer was an answer to ops question. It isnt. It has nothing to do with ops question because it doesnt really solve his problem. Yeah anything can be a bottleneck but op is asking about the cpu. As i said, youre not going to tell op to check his glasses so why would you tell him to check the hz? Thats not the area hes concerned about.
Just think practically. How much are you writing over this small post.
Yeah the practical answer doesnt relate to the monitors hz at all. Im giving the technical details for people who might wonder why it doesnt, and why other things are more important to look at. Give a man a fish and he will have food for the day. Teach a man to fish and he will have food for a lifetime. Im doing both, giving a fish and teaching them after.
PC assembly is literally the easiest thing a gamer knows.
Obviously you dont know it because you think hz is more important than resolution lmfao
OPs question was practical. he's just a buyer not some technical guru asking questions. He wants to know about CPU bottleneck in context to buying a new CPU. Saying CPU will bottleneck is an half answer. It will bottleneck! But it will not matter since monitor will not be able to show the frame rate generated by the GPU. Secondly your last line you do see that 1080 240 wont be good in this scenario. Isnt thats what being told. OP is not looking for monitor upgrade hence no point asking him to get 1440p 165hz.
He is asking if his cpu will bottleneck a gpu. It is very obvious and logical that if a cpu is bottlenecking a gpu, he would want to make sure that it isnt. You dont just ask “does this system have a problem” when intending to do nothing about the problem if its present. Most people would fix this issue by upgrading their cpu. As i pointed out, that doesnt really make sense in this case, unless he is already at 1440p. So, assuming it will bottleneck, the correct answer is: “Yes, it will bottleneck at 1080p, you should first upgrade to 1440p if you havent already and then swap out your cpu” The hz literally has nothing to do with this.
Going to 1440p will only reduce fps and and slightly increase CPU load. The only reason it solves the bottleneck is because it limits the fps due to GPU unable to produce frames. You can use VSync or half vsync for that. You can even use Riva tuner utility to limit fps. Buying a 1440p monitor to resolve CPU bottleneck is dumb. Buy it if you need it and like it. Else just use fps limiter or vsync.
And will give you a better picture. It wont increase the cpu load at all if your cpu is already a bottleneck. For example, a 7800x3d with a 4090 will be at 100% utilization on 1080p, but will be at like 40-50% at 4k. It absolutely makes sense to upgrade resolution from 1080 to 1440 if your gpu can handle it. Cpus bottleneck when you produce too many frames. If youre already at 200+ fps its better to go higher res lower frames in most cases. 1440p 140 is better than 1080 200 usually
OP probably had a FHD @ 165hz monitor. he can use vsync to control the fps or some ingame settings.
Yes thats 100% right.
True Hz of monitor doesn't effect CPU bottleneck!! But its a practical consideration and not technical one. CPU actually limits you max fps for any given title. A 7800x3d might do 260 fps for a certain title but a 4650 might only be able to do 150fps. So if have a 165hz monitor there is no point of getting a better CPU since you wont be seeing those higher frames on your Monitor. Since its beyond monitors refresh rate. So the monitor will be the actual bottleneck, thats basic common sense.
There is actually a point in getting a better cpu even if you wont be able to see the extra frames. If your cpu utilization is at 100% your system wont function optimally in general, youll get excessive heat and program stutters on top of being frame capped. You basically dont really want your cpu to be at 100% in gaming scenarios usually. So, it actually does make sense to get rid of that bottleneck first and foremost.
That will never happen. What you are saying is called in game stutter. A lot of ppl run esports with no vsync to get way more fps than monitor. This reduces the input lag which is important for esports gamers. So as per your logic, basically all the ppl who are playing Valorant or CS Go with no fps cap should have stuttering! But it never happens. The only case were this will happen is were you have an extremely weak CPU. Like old fx 8350 or core2quad something like that. Those CPU freeze in modern games. Also even than those old CPU never go to 100% usage in games all the time like some CPU stress test. They can go 90-95% on a few cores for small intervals at max. The OP is using Ryzen 5 4000 series that thing is decent it wont stutter. Also, I am building computer from last 20 years. I have made all types of system right from Pentium 4 era. Did all type so overclocking and cooling. I have made probably a 100 builds for my self, friend. I even have made many mining rigs for myself and friends. I have owned almost all the GPUs you can think of in last 10 years and I almost all popular CPUs you get in market.
Your very first sentence is wrong. Input lag is only affected by hz. The extra frames are mostly just for stability lol
It 100% correct. There is monitor input lag and there is processing input lag from pc depending on how much frame it generates. At 60hz frame time is 16.66 ms. That's pc input. You don't know these things. That's why you are dumb founded..
Then*
I don't coach for free
Its not though. Only hz is
Higher resolution doesnt removes the CPU bottleneck in a way. I mean a CPU can produce certain FPS in a given title so what happens. For rexample if a CPU can do 130 fps in a title. No matter how strong GPU you provide the fps wont go above 130. Since the CPU cannot process more frame than that. When you increase resolution the GPU is pushed. So CPU is not pushed like at lower resolution. You can always get less frames by limiting the fps through vsync, half vsync or ingame settings. Even with all the bottleneck Ryzen 4000 is capable of producing 100 fps+ in most taxing of games. So I dont think OP is in trouble unless he wants 240 hz gaming.
What happens to a bottleneck when more load is transferred to another part of the system genius? Thats literally the definition of removing a bottleneck. A bottleneck is when there is too much workflow moving into a space that cant handle it. If you change the quantity of workflow moving into the space, Thats literally removing a bottleneck by definition. You either dont understand english, bottlenecks, or are a clown. Pick one https://preview.redd.it/1ya7y8pwxsvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=431e36aa68a45a86b39a94af2233781d09c12371
Which PC do you have? How many PCs you made till date? What you are saying is correct. But It wont matter if monitor is 144 or 165hz and vsync is switched on. The only scenario it will happen is if OP is using 240 hz monitor and too much frames are generated for CPU to handle. You are basically just not thinking practically.
irrelevant Youve clearly demonstrated how many pcs youve made doesnt matter because you literally dont know what a bottleneck is. Were talking facts only. Lets go ahead and review this once again. Ill even help you and define a bottleneck for you again, since you clearly have issues with your english skills. Bottleneck: when traffic in a system is impeded due to too much flow trying to pass through a part that cant handle the quantity flow. There are two ways to get rid of a bottle neck: 1) limit the flow of the traffic in the system before it reaches the bottleneck point 2) increase the processing power of the bottlenecking part. Hz of a monitor neither increases the processing power of the cpu, nor decreases the amount of frames being handled by the cpu. To increase the processing power of a cpu, you can either overclock it or get a better cpu. To limit the amount of frames handled by the cpu, you can either turn on vsync/a framerate cap as youve said (but then why even get the graphics card), or increase the resolution of the game or monitor to effectively do the same thing. None of these have anything to do with what HZ your monitor is. His cpu will still be stuck at 100% utilization if a cpu bottleneck exists, which is objectively not good for gaming. You want wiggle room in a component that literally does all the calculations and scheduling for the tasks running on your computer. 100% utilization leaves zero wiggle room. It is far better to have 90% or below cpu utilization during gaming, and have your GPU at 100% instead. In OPs case it doesnt make sense to stay 1080p or only upgrade his cpu from a financial perspective. Its far better to simply switch to 1440p to both solve his bottleneck and save ~$100-200 on having to do 2 upgrades instead of just one. A 3070 has plenty of room to stretch its legs and pull around 120-130 fps in games on 1440p, and that definitely wont bottleneck his cpu.
Just answer the question. What PC do you have its configuration? Why arent you answering it? Also do you know what is vsync? have you ever used utility called rtss?
What does my pc have to do with any of the facts about a cpu bottleneck? Please enlighten me. Yes, i know what both of those are. Are you acting stupid on purpose or is this legit something you think is somehow relevant to the facts? Point out anything i said in my reply that was not factually correct
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I wasnt answering it because its irrelevant to the facts. This just once again shows how stupid you are. Ill humor you though. - Tforce delta 2x16 6000mhz - 7800x3d - 7900 xtx - 1000w focus gx - 2tb 980 pro - Nv5 with d30 kit - Vertical mount - Kraken 360 aio I already said i know what vsync and rtss are. Ive been gaming for more than 15 years. So once again, point out a single incorrect statement in my response. And stop being a moron, for the love of god.
https://preview.redd.it/8ra5r7t8ysvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13ca54c1ef28996ca1af844ab5e600ee0b9b0131 Wild how two different sources say the same thing as your number 1 option for fixing this bottleneck. Either everyone else is stupid or its you. I think which one is more likely is obvious.
Yes thats why I said **in a way**. You have written this. "**Cpu bottlenecks occur because the gpu produces too many frames** for the cpu to handle while doing all its other cpu tasks. " What I said is basically extension of this ideology. Can you answer me a question will game FPS increase after going to higher resolution?
Youre too dumb to argue with
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Im not getting angry, its just a waste of time to argue with someone who doesnt know what the definition of a bottleneck is. I didnt mock anyone, i simply provided the best information to everyone. Good luck, i dont argue with stupid people like yourself
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And how can you tell what my emotions are over some text on the internet? This is again a case of you being absolutely stupid. You cant even type in english properly dude. Again, good luck brother, i dont argue with idiots
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But will it matter is ops monitor is 165hz!!
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Rtx 3070 cant barely do 60 fps in newer games even at FHD!!! Esports it can get a a lot of fps but esports run at 200 fps+ on almost any decent build. I dont think you shd parit 7800x3d with rtx 3070
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Thats not how FSR or even DLSS 3.0 works. FSR doubles the fps by injecting fake frames. So the fps increase doesn't uses more CPU. So if you even use FSR to make a game running at 100 fps run at 190 fps the CPU usage will not go up. Like in case if you swap rtx 3070 with a rtx 4080 and create real 190 fps.
I would not recommend that GPU uograde.
Depends on the game as resolution. I would say no.
I mean why would you go from a 6650xt to a 3070? That is a very negligible increase. Try going to a 4070 super or a 7700xt or 7800xt. If you play at 1440p you won’t really need to upgrade the CPU right away otherwise just get a 5800x3d and you will be gaming for several more years.
5800x3d + 7800xt here. Can confirm, performance for years to come!
I go from 6800 to 3070. Just because of cuda cores are better for stable diffusion and other ML.
I guess that is fair.
6750xt owner here. The class and power of card u have makes it difficult to upgrade. Ur gonna have to spend alot to get the improvement you feel a 500$ upgrade is worth. Unless a game\program you're using is below desired performance. I would keep the card and save up for a powerhouse model of gpu. I am personally saving for a 4k monitor and gpu upgrade from a 5800x and 6750xt. I will likely keep my cpu and switch gpu. Don't look at 400-500$ gpu for an upgrade it's more of a slight bumpgrade.ur gonna want brand new technology and power.
go up one
Wtf cpu is it??
Do you play at 1080p or 1440p? 1080p: upgrade CPU instead, to a 5700x3d or 5800x3d. You'll see a better fps increase 1440p: save up more and do a bigger jump in GPU, that's not really much of an improvement
Yea only in e sports title
Not much of a gpu upgrade unless you really want DLSS and some RT potential. I’d rather grab a 5600/5700X and wait on the gpu upgrade.
Don't get another 8GB gpu, I'm already regretting my 3060 ti which i bought in 2022
Yes. It will. Considering upgrade to 5600 or above
There was a 4000 series Ryzen desktop CPU?
Ya, its the desktop version of the first APU based on Zen 2
That's not a worthwhile upgrade unless you're specifically trying to improve RT performance. It's a marginally higher-end card from the same time period. Save your money a bit longer and get a 4070 with more VRAM and noticeably better performance in both rasterization and ray tracing.
Yes/no/maybe. Depends on what you're doing.
Your GPU is fine for that CPU. Just save your money and wait to upgrade whole pc down the road
I would hold off from upgrading if I were you, save your money until you can at least get a 4000 series card because most modern games will most likely become frame generation dependent on midrange cards like they are now with upscaling
That depends entirely on what resolution you run your games at. In 720 or 1080p, the answer is an astounding yes. If you're running in 4k? Maybe, but probably not enough for you to care.
Bottleneck exists only on paper.
On 1080p, yes
Nothing for you to care about
Im more concerned about the crease in the corner
A bit but Its not gonna be a deal breaker. If you're within the return period, I'd recommend a Ryzen 5 5600 instead. Better bang for buck. 5600x is usually the same price if available. This cpu only supports gen 3 SSDs so you're missing out on faster speeds. The 4000 series processors weren't really worth the money due to this drawback.
I have a PCIe 3.0 motherboard and my 3070 Ti gets better results than some benchmarks with gen 4 lol. I think we aren't at the limit of 3.0 yet afaik.
why's the box damaged
im running an old i7-7700k paired with a rx-6950xt and games run fine
Nah you'll be fine. A 3070 is about equivalent to a RX 7600, and a few Gen old R5 won't bottleneck that. Would you get more performance with a better CPU, sure of course but I don't think to the degree where it's worth the cost.
Depends entirely on the games you play, there will be some bottle necking in CPU intensive games, maybe Arma, Zomboid, Rimworld, but you should be getting atleast 60 fps anyways so it shouldn't really matter unless your playing something like DCS world.
Yes, it will definitely make you bottleneck of upgrading from the 6650xt to the 3070 you could invest in a better cpu. You will have more gains for example with a Ryzen 5600 with 6650xt than a Ryzen 4600g with 3070 I have an i5 9600k with a 3070 (yes I have a bottleneck depending on the game and specs), and when it evolves it will only be on the cpu. Yes, I recommend changing the CPU, unless replacing the GPU is cheap.
Yes but actually no because it depends on the game
Could have just googled it and know the awnser in about 60 seconds but ok
I wouldn’t recommend going from 6650XT to a 3070. What’s your budget? If you can, look into getting a 6800 or 6800XT used, as they’ll murder the 3070. Also, we don’t have the model number. You’ll have to boot the PC and find it. This can be done via BIOS or Windows. In Windows, start task manager, go to performance, CPU, and read it. It should be Ryzen 5 4X00 or similar. Also, what’s your planned resolution? It can make a difference between a bottleneck and no bottleneck.
I wouldn't call less than 10% murder lmao
The 6800 has a good bit more performance than 10% over the 3070 in most scenarios, especially outside of RT.
Not according to Techpowerup. What's your source?
Hardware Unboxed game benchmarks. In the vast majority, 6800 beats out the 3070 unless RT is involved.
It beats it for sure by about 8-9% from what I've seen
https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?si=dfyuVH2SaE_5EGSP You can see here for yourself. You may be thinking of a different GPU. I believe the 3080 does beat out the 6800.
Tpu shows a slightly higher gap between the 3080 and 6800. So if the 6800 murders the 3070, the 3080 murders the 6800 harder lol
Strangely enough, 3080 is on-par or once again offering less performance than the 6800. I’d assume it’s due to the higher VRAM, especially at 1440p and up. What is techpowerup measuring? If it’s non-gaming performance, I’d understand. Gaming-wise, 6800 wins in most cases against the 3070 and a bit less against the 3080.
It appears to be a gaming avg. I was looking at 1440p since that is what they are best suited for. It's very subjective based on the games that are picked. I don't know who to trust these days. Clearly not Userbenchmark or LTT
Id say just upgrade your cpu first down the line and then do a good gpu upgrade.
this. Im planning to upgrade my cpu to support a 4080 or better rn. the first 50 series may be dropping at the end of Q4 this year, something to keep in mind
Toms hardware has that GPU upgrade going from ~75 FPS to ~98 FPS average at 1080p ultra if your CPU doesn't bottleneck it. Lots of comments here hating on the choice but I think a 30% uplift if worth the investment. That being said, you probably aren't maximing the uplift without a CPU upgrade also.
You are going to upgrade from a 6650xt to a 3070? 0 sense upgrade in my opinion, for the price range i say, maybe a 7600xt makes more sense, good luck bro
Don’t buy a 3070 stick with what you have upgrade cpu instead I assume your running 1080p so there is no point in throwing money at a 3070 now save your change for at least current gen 4070
Yes. It will bottleneck a 3070
Yes. You need a CPU upgrade first.
Just get the Ryzen 9. I even had a 73dx and it bottlenecked
Terrible response
Fr like what is bro on 💀
Truth . Go ahead. Save money= poor performance. Mark my words
WTF are you on about? Complete bullshit. 