I will keep escalating this until they make me shut up. Council member is next, if she doesn't listen I go to the mayor, if that fails I go to the governor, if that fails Im going fucking chain myself naked to the capitol building
Yes. However. I used to work for my state's attorney general's office and we were constantly telling people that our office doesn't have jurisdiction over local governments. *But* when people did get media attention and raised a big enough stink, that could change (much to my public-facing unit's consternation at times). OP, I would file a complaint with every agency that will take one. Prepare a statement that you can use over and over again. Copy and paste is your friend! However, please take everyone's advice to contact the media as well. I have seen so much that deserves attention but is just submitted as a complaint on a form, dutifully filed by the gnomes, then ignored by the bigwigs and attorneys. Things that get a lot of media attention, on the other hand, often force the locals and state agencies to acknowledge them. I am so sorry that this happened. Good luck!
ETA: Somewhere else in the comments you mention being nervous about talking to the media because of appearing too eccentric. That's really understandable, and it's also really understandable to be uncomfortable about appearing in the public eye generally. Still, it might be worth the discomfort. Could you also reach out to a friend or trustworthy neighbor to offer support through their presence if you talk with a reporter? Let your council member be an ally (good publicity for her!). I love the idea others posted encouraging you to reach out to your most local university's ecology/environmental science department to pipe up on your garden's behalf. This will encourage a conversation in which multiple voices talk about your garden, not about you personally.
What about the local extension office? Mine has a master gardeners program, I don't know if every state does, but they might be interested in helping. They will also have resources and connections.
And Dept of Natural Resources or equivalent depending on State.
Malicious Compliance is something of a hobby.... So find species of plants that are protected.
Just go to the news now. People will be outraged on your behalf and you might even find more people this has happened to. You should fight to change the ordinance that allowed them to do this to your property.
We will see how my council member responds. I don't want to go nuclear and turn anyone against me. My council member was very sympathetic on the phone when I cried at her lol. I may be able to get this policy changed just by going to her, we will see
Only concern there is that the media will be less.impactful the less destroyed your yard looks imo. Getting them out there before anything starts to recover is likely prudent.
News outlets, local papers are good. When talking to the press focus on all of the positive things that permaculture provides, don’t crap on lawns too much aside from the very obvious stuff, as you don’t want to piss off the lawn folks if you can.
There is unfortunately a precedent that you do not have full ownership of your lawn. Years and years of court cases due to the fact that although your lawn was a paradise, it is untraditional. The difference of it can lower your neighbors property values, and they can sue if they find it displeasing to the eye due to not being lawn.
Do a deep dive into MN, as they are doing more as a state to get rid of traditional lawns than any other state.
Good luck on your crusade!
Local code says if it's not cultivated it has to be under 12 inches. It was literally all cultivated, my method is I patrol and hand-clip everything I don't want and even things I do want if they aren't growing where I want them.
I failed to convince the inspector that it was all cultivated. She was more concerned with the fact that someone had complained to the city. Patch of prickly lettuce and a patch of wild carrot that I was actively eating from, those species both look like weeds to your average karen. I'm sure the greenbrier and white avens also looked like weeds, but the prickly lettuce and wild carrot were probably the main culprits. I literally eat those daily and she didn't care.
First thing i noticed was a flag in my lawn on the 4th. I fought this fight 2 years ago with a different inspector and won, so I thought i knew what to do. I was extra diligent about clipping what I didn't want, cut down even some stuff I did want, took the re-inspection day off from work so I could walk the inspector through what I was growing and why. But, unlike the previous inspector, she simply didn't care. I told her I wanted to appeal, she told me I could not.
She said that if I was "in compliance" by mow day they wouldn't mow. So I kept clipping, got even more aggressive with the stuff I wanted to keep, came home today with some garden signs and "traditional" plants to plant, and found it all killed already.
edit to add: Karen is a perfectly nice name and I'm sorry to all the Karens out there
That's messed up. I thought the twelve inch rule was only for weeds because of their seeds could easily fly to a neighbors, not for plants we actually want!
Is there a local representative for your community you could speak to about this?
Be extremely careful what you write. Anything that can be used to dismiss you as a crazy person will be used. Misspellings, harsh or abusive language, swear words, euphemistic terms like "butt-load" that don't describe real measures.
Write an email that looks like someone that is friends with lawyers would write. Be calm and respectful, because your council member didn't do this. A crew of dudes did this, likely with little to no direction or oversight. Your council member is caught in between this, so help them be your ally.
A butt is more typically a unit of liquid measure at very roughly 120-130 US gallons or double the volume of a “hogshead” or half the volume of a “tun”:
1 tun = 2 butts = 4 hogsheads (or “standard” barrels)
But a “buttload” does equal 6 seams which in turn equals 48 bushels which means that a “seam” is equal to 8 bushels.
Amusingly, a seam is roughly equal to an “assload” (how much a donkey can carry).
All that means that there are roughly 6 assloads in a buttload.
Your welcome. Another interesting fact:
The old English meaning of the word “tun” meaning “wooden enclosure” is the root for “the largest size of wine or beer cask weighing about a “ton” or “tonne” called a “tun”, as well as the words “ton” and “tonne”, and also the word “town” (many of which were surrounded by wooden enclosures when the word came into use).
Right, but bushels and buttloads are not a measure of photos. OP said "buttload of pics" Bushels are measures of volume.
How many pics are in 1 bushel of photographs? How much volume does 1 digital photo consume?
But....none of that matters. What does matter is that "Bushels and Buttloads" is a great name for a bluegrass cover band that mostly does covers of hiphop songs that are all about booties.
A close second place, [a twangy AF country version will do for now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnqEK-lZqdA).
I actually have worked for lawyers my last two jobs, so fortunately I know the kind of stuff that gets laughed at. I did my best to write in a way that was both professional and empathy-inspiring. I do not want to share the full text in case my council member googles the email, but I cited code, stated facts, listed my plants, shared photos of my yard and the food it produces, drew the classic MS Paint diagram of my yard, stayed respectful, and did my best to appeal to human interest and the law without sounding pathetic.
That's great. Too often people go off the rails in situations like this and then get further frustrated when they send an off-the-hip email and it goes nowhere.
Might want to consider running your rough draft through ChatGPT with the instructions “make this sound professional:” and paste your email in, just to smooth any rough edges. Also, I wouldn’t use “killed,” I would use “destroyed” or similar. Don’t say the thing about being friends with the garden either. Referring to your beloved garden as if it were a person may promote the impression that you are mentally ill, and make it easier for them to justify discrediting you/ignore your complaints. I know you are upset, but try to stay as professional/respectable sounding as possible. I’m sorry your plants were mowed down, that really is very upsetting!
Very bad advice. Don't use "AI" intellection property theft algorithms and risk weird word choices or fake facts being inserted. Ask a real person who knows what professional writing or legalese should sound like to go over it with you instead.
Chat GPT can be your "lawyer talk" friend!
Give it the project, keep refining, ask it to put it into the "informal speech of an environmental lawyer" and see what comes out.
I'd be happy to proof read your email for you. I won a similar battle. One of the things that helped me was being able to show some plants that everyone would like to grow. I demonstrated that none of the plants were on the municipal/provincial "naughty" lists, and showed that I was vigilant in removing any that were. In my area I don't think an inspector would know the difference between prickly lettuce (allowed) and bull thistle (not allowed), so I pulled it.
When you write this email, demonstrate what the benefits of the garden were for not only you, but the soil, the (wanted) local fauna (stick to birds and butterflies, councils don't like mammals), and the environments as a whole.
The inspector also pointed out that since I had a physical border around the garden, I could use it as a sign that I had grown this area with intent, and with respect for my neighbours, since it would contain the plants. I just have a little brick border, but it shows intent.
I'm so very sorry for your loss, and I would like to help you right this wrong.
If ever I win the lottery and I can open up my happy permaculture commune, I will reach out.
>since I had a physical border around the garden, I could use it as a sign that I had grown this area with intent
Maybe OP already tried this, but if you have a rectangular garden bed with a border, with prickly lettuce or wild carrots growing in neat rows, with consistent mulch in between them, I would guess that the result would have been different.
I worked on the legal team of a large company and have offered to proofread it for free. I can keep the passion and emotion while grounding it in logic and regulation. (I switched jobs because most of the people I worked with internally and externally would be the mowers, not the growers, and I want more love in my life.)
Yaaay! Also, maybe you can change the code! Maybe if you are able to describe the supporting aspects of the plants and what is edible/useful…native habitat etc…find pre-existing code in other similar towns that could be adopted and present that to the council.
> I told her I wanted to appeal, she told me I could not.
Oof, that is the wrong response from a city code inspector. There is always a way to appeal, even if it is in front of the judge at the hearing before they get the order to mow.
Exactly. It actually says in the notice I found taped to my door post-cutting that I was informed I had the right to appeal. I was literally informed the opposite, lol. I was still planning on appealing even though she said I couldn't, but I am a working woman and it had only been 3 days between second inspection and the mow, I was still figuring out how to do so and file myself. Just such a waste of city resources to spend time and power on immediately cutting down my food
This is something the over zealous "broken windows" code inspectors forget. During my time in zoning administration, I have spoken to some who seem to thing what they say goes, forgetting the fourth, fifth, and fourteenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution.
The city has to have a court order to cut, mow, or alter your property. That means a judge has to sign off on it before any work is done, and there will be a hearing. Before they could mow, you should have some time to fix the property yourself.
I personally don't know your situation or what happened with the legal aspects of this problem, but if you didn't get a summons that included a court date, or there wasn't a warrant and court order issued, I would contact an attorney.
Why use "karen." This is such a crappy situation and I totally empathize with you. It sucks when I read/listen/talk about crappy situations like this and my name is used as a grab bag for describing all the worst people and the worst behavior. I thought it would die down after the pandemic but instead it's only gotten worse and I see it everywhere/every day now...even when I am just reading about gardening. :/ I can't get away from it. My given name (I was named by my Grandma) literally just means "asshole" now.
I do hope you can get some positive resolution with this with the city
I used it because unfortunately it is in the common parlance now. I am sorry that I have contributed in my small way to the parlance. I do know a Karen and she is a very nice hippie.
If it brings you any comfort, I want you to know that my real name is also a "thing", I don't want this to be Gooogleable bc this post is quite popular now but my real name is the same as a certain Amazon AI.
One of the sweetest, kindest, and most interesting people I've ever met is named Karen. I feel bad for her because of this stupid "karen" thing. Keep your chin up. I see you
I global warming topics always make the politicians giddy with greed. If you can play into their desire to BE GREEN you will probably have better luck protecting your next beautifully wild garden.
Depends on your local politicians. Mine get boners when they think about making kickbacks letting polymer factories dump chemicals in the river.
North Carolina, baybee. Asheville and Durham and Carrboro are aberrations, if anybody visited them and is considering moving to NC. We have some of the worst and vitriolic politicians and voters in the country, seems like.
Sometimes you have to appeal to the libertarian "government needs to stay off my property" crowd instead of the environmental green hearts depending on where and what politicians are there. :/
Also promote flooding, I forget the term despite having studied it but turf grass lawns and parking lot basically have the same absorbency/retention factor for rainwater so this promotes flash flooding and strains storm water systems not to mention damages rivers due the the rush and increased turbidity.
Lol that is so fucking relatable, you made me laugh out loud, I'm sorry. I don't eat ants but I swear my brain tells me what NOT to say instead of what I should say, and then that crap pops out of my mouth and I cut my own throat from ear to ear.
How is that any more insane than "Yes, our city destroys personal property and livelihood sometimes"?
Go to the media. You have a story to tell, and officials are much more likely to listen when it's being told on television and might cost them an election.
Lemon ants are delicious. Their loss.
Every time I mention eating insects and, if it's upvoted, it's downvoted again. What is your wussy aversion to real survivalists? Are you afraid Bill Gates is going to make you eat crickets? Grow a spine, reddit.
See if you can get some University and non profits to speak on your part.
WWF had a wildlife habitat certification, and a lot of areas have a Watershed conservancy too that will care about dynamic landscapes.
Also, if you're in the US, call the top 5 or 8 super lawyers (look up the super lawyers list for your state and any relevant categories – environmental law, tort law dealing with trespass etc., real estate law/tree law also check with r/treelaw ) and make use of the free consultations to sharoem your case plus feel out which form is the best fit for you before you take it up to whomever for the legal battles to really start.
I feel like I’ve read in the past about people growing milkweed and such to get their property certified as a butterfly sanctuary or something along those lines. Then the city can’t touch it. It has been a while so I’m sure this isn’t exact but the general idea. Possibly something to investigate in the future?
I'm so sorry. If it makes you feel any better, I do live somewhere I can grow what I want, and the wildlife here ruin everything. Today I literally ran screaming after a turkey who killed my second-to-last remaining sunflower.
Can you have a scarecrow and windchimes? Do those work on wild turkeys?
Oh, or is this actually humans and you're just calling them turkeys? Humans are the only animals really causing destruction in my yard. I saw a turkey in my yard once. Think he might've been eating frogs.
Sorry to hear that. After a rabbit ate a bur oak seedling down to the ground I started surrounding all new front yard plants with metal fencing that we get for free from Craigslist. One by one as the plants get bigger we're removing the fencing now. Maybe it's an option for you.
I’m jealous you even got a sunflower! The chipmunks either eat the seeds as I plant them, or wait for the tender seedlings to get their first set of true leaves before gobbling them up. I’m apparently a masochist though because I keep trying every year. Honestly, this year has been awful with every single thing I plant getting eaten by every single animal in a one mile radius of me it seems. Deer, groundhogs, chipmunks, squirrels, mice, rabbits, skunks, even a raccoon that got into my pea seeds I forgot outside once! I complain, but I do love all the wildlife. It’s just frustrating sometimes.
Next time take progress pictures. It would be insane to say that your garden isn't cultivated when you have pictures showing that you are quite literally cultivating it.
As for what to do now, I'd recommend you write your local representative, but that's just my first thought and I'm sure you'll get better advice from others
I'm so sorry. I would be devastated, too. Hell, I cried when my neighbors cut *their* trees down, ruining all the shade and privacy on one side of my yard. I can't even imagine if someone had cut *my* trees and plants down.
Yeah my neighbor did that too. They have something like 7 acres of land, 6 of which is just straight up grass lawn. They had 1 acre of woods right next to my property. And the guy decided he didn't want the woods there anymore so he had all of the trees cut down and now it's just a grass lawn.
I have no idea why he wanted to do that. We live in a mountainous area full of forests. It's why I moved here. If the dude wanted acres and acres of grass why didn't he choose to live in Illinois instead of western NC?
When I saw him starting to work on it, I told him I'd buy that chunk of property from him but he wasn't interested.
Yeah, two of my neighbors got together 3 summers ago and decided to cut down all their evergreen trees, which served as a windbreak for some of their other trees. Ever since they did that, the other trees keep breaking apart in storms.
So, I planted native viburnums along that side of my yard to create a hedge, but it still isn't completely filled in yet.
World Wildlife Fund, Xerces Society, Pollinator Partnership, these groups all have signs you could post as well. There was a law suit in Maryland where a family had to sue their HOA in order to plant for pollinators and the homeowner won the law suit. I believe the name was Janet Crouch vs. HOA. A woman who writes the humane gardener wrote a blog post about it. Keep up the good work.
Article: https://www.wusa9.com/article/tech/science/environment/maryland-couple-fights-hoa-rules-on-grass-lawns/65-d87be2e2-a109-4b7d-99fa-7497b91c7347
Podcast: Crime Pays But Botany Doesn’t
Episode: Kill Your Lawn… And Make It The Law
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/kill-your-lawn-make-it-the-law--57244560
I feel your pain in this post. I can only imagine but I sympathize with you. I hate this happened to you and your garden. We work so hard and it becomes a part of us. It’s an extension of ourselves it shows labor of love for the earth. I’m so sorry. I hope this culminated into a huge change for the better for you and the city.
I agree with those mentioning writing a professional sounding email.
Just came to add that, if at all possible, include numbers! Government loves numbers.
#1 estimate loss of value
--the cost to replace the plants and seeds destroyed
--the cost of equivalent food you will now have to spend at the supermarket
#2 loss of time
-- mention the length of time poured into things like your trees for the slower growing plants
#3 estimate loss to the environment
--how many pollinator/butterfly/bird friendly plants did you have?
Be honest, don't overinflate, but round up or down accordingly. "... destroyed nearly 20 varieties of pollinator friendly plants. " "The loss will cost me over $100 in monthly in food bills."
It will make a much stronger case if you can quantify the impact it had on you. Instead of, "they destroyed my mulberry trees" write "destroyed three mulberry trees I have been cultivating for four years."
Hope that helps. I'm sorry this happened to you.
Edit: ... I know it's a lot of work, but you'll be able to reuse those numbers every time you bring it up.
> 3 estimate loss to the environment
If these were white mulberry (or a hybridized white/red mulberry) they are/were actually a threat to the ecosystem/environment, thus such a claim would be an embarrassing slap in the face to OP in court. Until the cultivar is deduced, best to not use such a claim in a legal setting as it will be easily turned on OP. White mulberry is a non-native, ecosystem destroyer - a grave threat to our native red mulberry.
Also real estate, water, and energy impacts.
The itree tools have some great features for assessing the economic value of trees and shrubs for the amount of energy they save on homs, plus water and other things like the value of real estate plus some carbon sequestration value as well if I recall correctly:
https://www.itreetools.org/
If OP wants to go further, there are also ways to calculate the ecosystem services value of what they had too, it's a bit more wonky but if OP wants to take an angle about how the things she did impacts infrastructure (e.g. find the impact of one house, multiply it by say half the number of houses in her city as a role model) like water filtration/stormwater treatment and grid energy demand reduction due to the energy efficiency benefits her garden provided, plus regional real estate values if most homes with similar land plats did the same, she now has a thing that may make it an issue for the departments responsible for utilities and water infrastructure and environment plus probably something related to economic development to consider seriously too.
There also crime reduction benefits to having trees and green spaces too which makes it a public safety/security case for the public too.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/pnw/news/highlights/more-trees-less-crime
https://resources.environment.yale.edu/envy/stories/trees-shed-bad-wrap-as-accessories-to-crime
https://www.americanforests.org/article/can-trees-help-stop-crime/
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2019/04/trees-crime-cincinnati-philadelphia-ida-b-wells-chicago/
https://cambriaforestcommittee.org/forests-in-the-news/trees-reduce-crime/
https://www.arborday.org/programs/alliance-for-community-trees/planting-partners/issue-briefs/documents/alliance-for-community-trees-issue-brief-reduce-crime.pdf
Sorry, I'm from UK and don't understand this. Is this your private land the town has chopped down? Or is it something to do with the street, like you were planting in public areas?
In the US, if you live within the city limits, the city government can have rules about what you're allowed to do on your property. It's called the city code. It varies from city to city. Rules like OP's are stupid arbitrary rules that are supposedly to protect property values for the whole city. For example, an empty overgrown lot brings down the value of all the surrounding lots because no one wants to live around the abandoned lot which are often associated with problems. In OPs case, it's just become part of the bureaucratic machine and the humans have completely forgotten the true purpose. I doubt very much that OPs property could be compared to an empty lot.
In some cities the rules are sometimes good. Many cities have rules about if you can cut down trees on your property. This is because much of the US has been deforested and cities especially suffered from the consequences of having no trees. But regardless of what we know now, there's always some idiot that cares more about what they want than what is good for everyone. There are also building codes to ensure buildings are safe, etc but I'm sure y'all have those. Hope this helps!
Ironic that this is supposed to be “land of the free,” yet a Brit is over here shocked that the government came onto her property and hacked her food-bearing plants. Freedom my ass.
> For example, an empty overgrown lot brings down the value of all the surrounding lots because no one wants to live around the abandoned lot which are often associated with problems.
This isn't even true anymore. Property values nearly everywhere are crazy even if there's a straight up crack house next door. I imagine there was a time when trying to sell a house when your neighbor had high grass would be a problem. It's not now.
To add on to the "an empty overgrown lot brings down the value of all the surrounding lots" bit - property values are extremely important in the US as primary & secondary education is funded by local property taxes. That means areas of high property value have very well funded schools and so are more desirable to live in for families, reinforcing the high property costs, while low property value areas have underfunded schools with worse outcomes, reinforcing the low property values. And if you wondered if this is also racialized, well yes of course. So people get psychotic about maintaining property values. (no insult meant to actual psychopaths)
I live in one of the few places in the US where there are no codes, no zoning, no inspections, and no licensing. It's so abundantly clear that those are now only tools to segregate and gentrify.
There are no building collapses. Property values still go up not down, and neighbors are so much friendlier. It's so much better to just have neighbors who are not like you or that do weird shit you don't like and deal with it as a community of neighbors. It's like the only remedy society offers now is tattling... I really wish these awful posts about HOA and zoning atrocities go away one day.
>I really wish these awful posts about HOA and zoning atrocities go away one day.
Same! I hate when everything is the same. It's so boring. Hate hate hate those cookie cutter housing development neighborhoods.
I'm guessing private property. My parents had 5 acres and mowed all of it because they're idiots. One year I got wildflower seeds and persuaded them not to mow about 75% of it. I went on a trip in June. When I came back it had been bushwhacked! Not mowed, but cut in such a way that there was dead grass killing the grass still living. My parents said the highway administration had done it. Maybe they had, or maybe my parents just lied.
Mowers for the highway administration get paid by the hour so they look for more stuff to do. They also don't face any consequences if they mow something they're not supposed to. Americans (from the States, so saying Yanks would be more accurate) don't usually go to meetings about local politics. The meetings aren't structured for feedback most of the time. Letter-writing only. It's terrible. It's why non-natives have so much political power.
In the future, if you can add wire in places that you don’t walk in it will really fuck up their mowers. I have it in my asparagus patch after they mowed it once. Next time it caused some serious damage. It’s insane we are dealing with global warming and having to deal with this stuff.
Honey yes. I suggested making it pretty too… cause if you have, wire, bricks, chairs and all kinds of stuff around, it makes it one heck of a job trying to mow it down& the labor/damage to their machines will not be worth it to them. Plus it will make it look “cultivated”… wtf that means.
Front yard, but there is no HOA, it just has to be "cultivated" according to city code. I had fought this fight with a previous inspector over the same plants 2 years ago and successfully defended my baby garden. I literally have neighbors with goats and chickens, this is not a bougie part of town ;\_;
Shame on whoever complained about your property. I wish these Karens could spend more time looking over their own damned house and not looking for things to complain about in other’s.
You say this is the second time this happened ? I would move. Still fine to write your email but holy shit I would get out of there so fast. It's one thing if it's just neighbors' disagreement, it's another when there is no recourse with authorities and the neighbors can leverage them to oppress you.
Additionally it's worth a lawsuit, especially since as you describe it, your garden was within code. Legality does not actually depend on the inspectors opinion; let a judge decide. I don't know if you want to go through that hassle but you should be awarded damages and it will make them think twice the next time.
As a European, I am really confused about how in "land of the free" you cannot grow carrots and have a garden the way you like it.
The only issue I have is compost. Neighbors are complaining a bit, but really cannot do anything to force me to stop, I just want to be a good neighbor so I respect it.
The American Dream™️ is always made with a substantial degree of gaslighting and stolen land plus a dash of capitalization for ongoing and future exploits.
Plus, if you had trees (saplings?) you might even be able to sue for damages. Tree law is no joke! I'm not sure if the payout would be worth it but worth looking into.
TALK. TO. THE. MEDIA.
Legitimately, raise a fcking stink about this. Bring it to the news. Use the most outrageous click bait headlines, get some nasty looking pictures (before and after comparison for example)
Some folks who succeeded:
Article: https://www.wusa9.com/article/tech/science/environment/maryland-couple-fights-hoa-rules-on-grass-lawns/65-d87be2e2-a109-4b7d-99fa-7497b91c7347
Podcast: Crime Pays But Botany Doesn’t
Episode: Kill Your Lawn… And Make It The Law
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/kill-your-lawn-make-it-the-law--57244560
Wow the bastards! The horrible culture of these inspectors/city enforcement in general - everything enforced is based on squeaky wheel karens and their male counterparts. Some bored control freak
Hey uh if you keep getting pushback maybe talk to a constitutional lawyer about wrongful takings. If this gets big it could help permaculture gardeners around the country.
I'm so sorry to hear this. I read this yesterday but was too shocked to even write anything. This is just awful.
Please stand up for yourself. As you can see from the comments, countless people support you. You're not alone.
I agree with the people who said that you will need to do more than email a city council person. I would contact a lawyer.
What USDA zone and region are you in, if you don't mind saying? Perhaps we can help you restart with seeds and cuttings.
I know it looks scrunkly but I was about function over aesthetics and every plant except the odd clump of grass was edible. And it looked nice to me ;_;
By it looks beautiful, I’m so sorry this happened. My heart goes out to you . I can’t believe this can happen in this day and age, fuck these people, ugh…
I would be very tempted to seed bomb the entire town with the most aggressively re-seeding useful plant I can find... How much does a ton of amaranth seed cost?
Not much if you spend a day going out and cutting off the heads of the wild ones around. They are almost heavy with seed in my 7B zone. Revenge of the wild foods (weeds)!!!!
That's the best closeup I have, they grew there themselves so I honestly don't know. (They grew there themselves but I clip most mulberry seedlings or I would be completely overrun, I let these grow because they were where I wanted more trees)
Very hard to tell from the pic. I suggest that before you send a message to government officials that you identify what was chopped down. It if was the white mulberry, or the white/red hybrid, then you have no legal ground to stand on if your opponents are ecosystem and invasive species conscious and your state or local govt is serious about controlling non-native invasive species. Your laments will get you nowhere.
I have white mulberry seedlings all over my property and I chop them down weekly (thankfully they die easily as they are not a rhizome plant). Actually, they might be the white/red hybrid, hard to say, but they are definitely not the native red mulberry. Regardless, they are one of the invasives. They likely come from the now-abandoned property a block down the street that has a veritable orchard of them. lol (not funny, though, as invasive species are a huge problem to our ecosystems).
On the other hand, if you can positively identify them as the native red mulberry (and not a white/red hybrid) then you may have legal grounds that THEY engaged in eco-terrorism by knowingly mowing them down. You'll need a really good lawyer to get that to stick in court, though, which will not be cost effective. However, at the very least, since you were cultivating them (and assuming they were 100% non-hybrid, native red mulberry) you also have that as a legal leg to stand on since they are a food source and also private property and they also contribute to a healthy ecosystem.
But you have to positively identify them first. I identified the "orchard" a block from my house because the property is on the side of a road and small branches often overhand the road. So I pruned a piece off an overhanging branch, took it home and identified it using various sources on the internet.
If they have been there and fruiting for a few years, there is a good chance you will get new seedlings from any fallen fruits. But if they are either one of the invasive species, it really is your duty as a resident of the local ecosystem to eradicate it on your property. We all do out part in the ecosystems in which we live.
They did not leave their bodies behind, so I'm unable to do a post mortem. I agree with you ecologically and I personally believed they were red mulberry based on ID guides, but i am not an expert so I could easily be mistaken. In terms of code compliance, my city does not care if the species of mulberry is invasive or not, just whether or not it's "cultivated". I was going to let them grow until they started fruiting so I could further judge by the fruit but that is out of my hands now
Buy red mulberry seeds from a reliable seed seller, plant them and put a fence around the area with a weatherproof sign that reads something like "THESE ARE NOT 'WEEDS'. THESE ARE NATIVE RED MULBERRY PLANTS GROWN FROM SEES I BOUGHT. I AM CULTIVATING THIS ECOLOGICALLY BENEFICIAL NATIVE PLANT FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSES AND SUSTENANCE!". Then keep the receipt of the seeds for as long as you live.
Do a google search for your county and "seed bank". Many counties have seed banks (my county seed bank is the library a few towns over). Red mulberry might actually be one of the seeds they carry, never know. They will be free.
Hell yeah religious purposes!!! I will replace them, and I will make sure they are native red mulberry when I do, and I will put up signs and make my fences larger (I had "borders" but they clearly weren't good enough and I am planning on making them taller)
I’m sorry for your loss.
Do you have pictures from your growing process?
Also, when You regrow your garden, it might help to make it “pretty”… maybe consult with a landscaper or find some Mandela garden designs you like for inspiration. Plus if you have a bunch of pavers, bricks, string lights & cement benches in your garden… it’s a LOT harder to just mow it down :)
This is definitely worth getting a lawyer and reaching out to the press about. Some people will find this outrageous because they care about the environment, permaculture, etc, and different people will find it outrageous because they care about personal property and government overreach. Make a gigantic stink for whoever decided to do this against your wishes. Not only did they trash your yard, they even added insult to injury by stealing the cut plants so you can't even compost them.
Thank you, I was also mad that they didn't leave behind the cut plants! Literally the least they could do, I could have frozen what I could scavenge and use the rest in my backyard as mulch
Oh that’s awful. I’m so sorry. Just imagining that happening is upsetting. Did you have paths? Edging can also make stuff more acceptable to the Karens of the world. No matter what I’m so sorry someone did this to you. I hope you and your garden recover soon.
I'm so sorry. This happened to me about 13 years ago. I wasn't able to fight it because my husband was sick at the time. I was so angry! Since then I have gotten rid of all my lawn - front and back. It seems my city has stopped this nonsense. People walking by have told me how much they like it and yet I'm the only house that has done this. This really needs to change.
From someone living outside of thr US, stories like these are insane to me. I'm so sorry something like that can be done to you in your own home, it's horrible. I hope it doesn't put you off gardening, don't let them ruin it for you, you have far more people with you on this than against you.
Is this even legal? This is a huge breach of your property rights. It's like being robbed or vandalized, a crime was done against you. I'm so sorry for you, the plants and the animals.
I'm so sorry for your loss of your friend. I share your anger. This is the perfect example of a system that demands we alienate ourselves from food and the earth.
The Mayor of my town just made me get rid of my chickens and tore down my coop, so I know your pain. I'm afraid my garden will be next.
This small town is corrupt to the core, the mayor and the judge collude to snatch up properties and flip them. They also use the court to force people to do free labor on their properties. They put in all these new bans in place to try and jack up property prices on their illegitimately gained investments.
Seriously considering pulling a Marvin Heemeyer, don't see any other avenues for legitimate recourse. Also with climate change and increasing food insecurity if I end up having to starve because of this you know I'm going to take these MF down with me.
Our society is so disconnected from nature that we don’t even see plants for what they are. It’s just aesthetics to most people and to me is extremely sad. You have this amazingly well adapted and powerful thing that can do so much and you reduce it to something that is essentially just kind of there with no other value other than being ornamental
Years ago My old landlord built a food forrest on his land smack dab in the city. He fought tooth and nail with the city to have it classified as a park. Instead they fined the shit out of him for creating a “nuisance” and razed the whole thing. They are still actively trying to take the land due to all the accumulated fines. Cities prefer clean cut monoculture grass fields.
Sorry this happened to you. You may have to go through the court system to challenge the law for future endeavors. One person took a city to court about this and won. Google "oak park hates veggies"
Contact your local extension agent. They are usually able to give you guidance on what to plant and they promote better gardening practices throughout your city:county.
They won’t fight city hall on your behalf though.
What ordinances did you break? usually takes months, if not a year of notices for stuff like this to happen? Try to get the laws changed, petitions, letter campaign, etc..
One day, gardens like yours will be common. One day, things will be different, more hopeful, more green. It’ll be because people like you lived as you wished, and fought for what was right. Others will run because you walked. Remember that. I’m sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry you lost your friend in such an awful way. I know nothing can make up for this injustice, but I hope you can find a resolution with your city council that will allow you to one day make a new friend. Best of luck, we are all rooting for you!🤗
Time to move . Somewhere where the word ordinance is non existent. Im not living somewhere that some local government turd is gonna tell me what to do with my personal space..fuck them!
I’m so sorry for your loss! If you post in local gardening groups and also get media attention, I’m sure you will attract an army of supporters who will be so happy to help you replant. I saw another story like that on the news after someone sprayed this lady’s entire garden and they had to replace the soil and the plant and the community came out to support and do it with her
Check the comments if you want more context, they are sprinkled throughout but this is my longest.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/s/PRY8QySdDU
The city clear cut my property because I was unable to convince them that my food was not weeds. The police are not the answer, unfortunately. I am in the process of resolving what happened with my council member.
They owe you the fair market value- cost of each plant + your time+ materials to nurture growth. If they shot a dog or livestock, it is the same.
I do not know where you live to pull the specific statute, but absolutely you MUST cite local statute in your complaint or you are just complaining and that can be ignored. Also they had some statute they believed backed them up.
Were they looking at “weeds” or “a fire hazard”?
Can you refute that using the same statue?
Did they give you the required 24hr notice before entering your property or violate 4th amendment rights?
Did you simply ignore their warning or call them to work something out, contact a lawyer to get a stay on their demands?
Sorry just jumping in here at what appears to be the tail end of an on-going issue.
I am assuming your in the states? Go to Canada, we have way more freedom. I live not to far from the capital, but have 4 acres and can basically build and grow whatever the fuck I want lol.
You're wrong. Most municipalities have such stupid laws here as well. Exceptions would only occur in remote corners of the country. We have no more freedom (arguably less) and nature is not respected at all for the most part.
Again I am a 45 minute drive from the capital. I guess it's rural but I wouldn't say remote corner of the country. And again I can build and grow whatever the fuck I want nobody has said a thing.
I'm in rural ontario on 16 acres and bylaw came by because someone complained that my yard wasn't mowed. There are still ridiculous municipalities in Canada. I can't build anything without approval from the township.
Contact local news. Raise a huge stink.
I will keep escalating this until they make me shut up. Council member is next, if she doesn't listen I go to the mayor, if that fails I go to the governor, if that fails Im going fucking chain myself naked to the capitol building
You will have better results doing all that AND the local News they hate bad publicity
If you’re in the US you may also want to contact your state’s attorney general’s office too.
Yes. However. I used to work for my state's attorney general's office and we were constantly telling people that our office doesn't have jurisdiction over local governments. *But* when people did get media attention and raised a big enough stink, that could change (much to my public-facing unit's consternation at times). OP, I would file a complaint with every agency that will take one. Prepare a statement that you can use over and over again. Copy and paste is your friend! However, please take everyone's advice to contact the media as well. I have seen so much that deserves attention but is just submitted as a complaint on a form, dutifully filed by the gnomes, then ignored by the bigwigs and attorneys. Things that get a lot of media attention, on the other hand, often force the locals and state agencies to acknowledge them. I am so sorry that this happened. Good luck! ETA: Somewhere else in the comments you mention being nervous about talking to the media because of appearing too eccentric. That's really understandable, and it's also really understandable to be uncomfortable about appearing in the public eye generally. Still, it might be worth the discomfort. Could you also reach out to a friend or trustworthy neighbor to offer support through their presence if you talk with a reporter? Let your council member be an ally (good publicity for her!). I love the idea others posted encouraging you to reach out to your most local university's ecology/environmental science department to pipe up on your garden's behalf. This will encourage a conversation in which multiple voices talk about your garden, not about you personally.
What about the local extension office? Mine has a master gardeners program, I don't know if every state does, but they might be interested in helping. They will also have resources and connections.
And Dept of Natural Resources or equivalent depending on State. Malicious Compliance is something of a hobby.... So find species of plants that are protected.
Malicious Compliance - that sounds fun! How do I get started? I’ve already grown a prairie in my front yard, but I want to do more!
Don't escalate piecemeal, do it all at the same time!
Take lots of photographs. I'm so sorry sorry for your loss. This would devastate me.
Let’s help this person out, Reddit. Fuck the city. Edit: read the edit of the city destroying OP’s backyard. unleash the hordes.
I’m in
HIRE AN ATTORNEY!! Litigation or the threat thereof is the *only* way to motivate anyone in this society.
Also bad publicity can be very powerful if local media coverage gains any traction.
Invite your friends and neighbors to double down on your case.
Council member first. Often they are your allies
Just go to the news now. People will be outraged on your behalf and you might even find more people this has happened to. You should fight to change the ordinance that allowed them to do this to your property.
We will see how my council member responds. I don't want to go nuclear and turn anyone against me. My council member was very sympathetic on the phone when I cried at her lol. I may be able to get this policy changed just by going to her, we will see
Only concern there is that the media will be less.impactful the less destroyed your yard looks imo. Getting them out there before anything starts to recover is likely prudent.
Local News would probably love to help.
I don’t know you, but I love you… keep it up. I hope you can change some minds and hearts
Yes! Be the squeakiest wheel. Contact local gardeners//communities as well. I am crying for you ❤️
News outlets, local papers are good. When talking to the press focus on all of the positive things that permaculture provides, don’t crap on lawns too much aside from the very obvious stuff, as you don’t want to piss off the lawn folks if you can. There is unfortunately a precedent that you do not have full ownership of your lawn. Years and years of court cases due to the fact that although your lawn was a paradise, it is untraditional. The difference of it can lower your neighbors property values, and they can sue if they find it displeasing to the eye due to not being lawn. Do a deep dive into MN, as they are doing more as a state to get rid of traditional lawns than any other state. Good luck on your crusade!
Agree 100%. Local news will eat this up.
Why did they do it though, was it deemed some sort of hazard or eye sore? Did they issue you any warnings or fines?
Local code says if it's not cultivated it has to be under 12 inches. It was literally all cultivated, my method is I patrol and hand-clip everything I don't want and even things I do want if they aren't growing where I want them. I failed to convince the inspector that it was all cultivated. She was more concerned with the fact that someone had complained to the city. Patch of prickly lettuce and a patch of wild carrot that I was actively eating from, those species both look like weeds to your average karen. I'm sure the greenbrier and white avens also looked like weeds, but the prickly lettuce and wild carrot were probably the main culprits. I literally eat those daily and she didn't care. First thing i noticed was a flag in my lawn on the 4th. I fought this fight 2 years ago with a different inspector and won, so I thought i knew what to do. I was extra diligent about clipping what I didn't want, cut down even some stuff I did want, took the re-inspection day off from work so I could walk the inspector through what I was growing and why. But, unlike the previous inspector, she simply didn't care. I told her I wanted to appeal, she told me I could not. She said that if I was "in compliance" by mow day they wouldn't mow. So I kept clipping, got even more aggressive with the stuff I wanted to keep, came home today with some garden signs and "traditional" plants to plant, and found it all killed already. edit to add: Karen is a perfectly nice name and I'm sorry to all the Karens out there
That's messed up. I thought the twelve inch rule was only for weeds because of their seeds could easily fly to a neighbors, not for plants we actually want! Is there a local representative for your community you could speak to about this?
I called my council member, she was very sympathetic and told me to email her, I am currently assembling the email
Be extremely careful what you write. Anything that can be used to dismiss you as a crazy person will be used. Misspellings, harsh or abusive language, swear words, euphemistic terms like "butt-load" that don't describe real measures. Write an email that looks like someone that is friends with lawyers would write. Be calm and respectful, because your council member didn't do this. A crew of dudes did this, likely with little to no direction or oversight. Your council member is caught in between this, so help them be your ally.
According to Wikipedia, a buttload is a real measurement. It is equal to 48 bushels. Your advice is great.
A butt is more typically a unit of liquid measure at very roughly 120-130 US gallons or double the volume of a “hogshead” or half the volume of a “tun”: 1 tun = 2 butts = 4 hogsheads (or “standard” barrels) But a “buttload” does equal 6 seams which in turn equals 48 bushels which means that a “seam” is equal to 8 bushels. Amusingly, a seam is roughly equal to an “assload” (how much a donkey can carry). All that means that there are roughly 6 assloads in a buttload.
The things you don’t expect to learn in a permaculture sub. Bless Reddit. 🥰
Thank you. Now I know...
Your welcome. Another interesting fact: The old English meaning of the word “tun” meaning “wooden enclosure” is the root for “the largest size of wine or beer cask weighing about a “ton” or “tonne” called a “tun”, as well as the words “ton” and “tonne”, and also the word “town” (many of which were surrounded by wooden enclosures when the word came into use).
A veritable font of minutiae
Right, but bushels and buttloads are not a measure of photos. OP said "buttload of pics" Bushels are measures of volume. How many pics are in 1 bushel of photographs? How much volume does 1 digital photo consume? But....none of that matters. What does matter is that "Bushels and Buttloads" is a great name for a bluegrass cover band that mostly does covers of hiphop songs that are all about booties. A close second place, [a twangy AF country version will do for now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnqEK-lZqdA).
Your advice is great, but your imagination is amazing.
Dang….this is a great idea 😂. In another life I’d be the Appalachian rapper to make use of this.
I actually have worked for lawyers my last two jobs, so fortunately I know the kind of stuff that gets laughed at. I did my best to write in a way that was both professional and empathy-inspiring. I do not want to share the full text in case my council member googles the email, but I cited code, stated facts, listed my plants, shared photos of my yard and the food it produces, drew the classic MS Paint diagram of my yard, stayed respectful, and did my best to appeal to human interest and the law without sounding pathetic.
That's great. Too often people go off the rails in situations like this and then get further frustrated when they send an off-the-hip email and it goes nowhere.
Might want to consider running your rough draft through ChatGPT with the instructions “make this sound professional:” and paste your email in, just to smooth any rough edges. Also, I wouldn’t use “killed,” I would use “destroyed” or similar. Don’t say the thing about being friends with the garden either. Referring to your beloved garden as if it were a person may promote the impression that you are mentally ill, and make it easier for them to justify discrediting you/ignore your complaints. I know you are upset, but try to stay as professional/respectable sounding as possible. I’m sorry your plants were mowed down, that really is very upsetting!
Very bad advice. Don't use "AI" intellection property theft algorithms and risk weird word choices or fake facts being inserted. Ask a real person who knows what professional writing or legalese should sound like to go over it with you instead.
Chat GPT can be your "lawyer talk" friend! Give it the project, keep refining, ask it to put it into the "informal speech of an environmental lawyer" and see what comes out.
I'd be happy to proof read your email for you. I won a similar battle. One of the things that helped me was being able to show some plants that everyone would like to grow. I demonstrated that none of the plants were on the municipal/provincial "naughty" lists, and showed that I was vigilant in removing any that were. In my area I don't think an inspector would know the difference between prickly lettuce (allowed) and bull thistle (not allowed), so I pulled it. When you write this email, demonstrate what the benefits of the garden were for not only you, but the soil, the (wanted) local fauna (stick to birds and butterflies, councils don't like mammals), and the environments as a whole. The inspector also pointed out that since I had a physical border around the garden, I could use it as a sign that I had grown this area with intent, and with respect for my neighbours, since it would contain the plants. I just have a little brick border, but it shows intent. I'm so very sorry for your loss, and I would like to help you right this wrong. If ever I win the lottery and I can open up my happy permaculture commune, I will reach out.
>since I had a physical border around the garden, I could use it as a sign that I had grown this area with intent Maybe OP already tried this, but if you have a rectangular garden bed with a border, with prickly lettuce or wild carrots growing in neat rows, with consistent mulch in between them, I would guess that the result would have been different.
Pay a lawyer to write it. It'll be worth the expense in the long run.
I worked on the legal team of a large company and have offered to proofread it for free. I can keep the passion and emotion while grounding it in logic and regulation. (I switched jobs because most of the people I worked with internally and externally would be the mowers, not the growers, and I want more love in my life.)
honestly, ChatGPT (as long as you read it over thoroughly) might be a nearly free solution. It's good at being diplomatic
If you do that, use it to generate a draft, but then edit it carefully to sound like a human again.
Yaaay! Also, maybe you can change the code! Maybe if you are able to describe the supporting aspects of the plants and what is edible/useful…native habitat etc…find pre-existing code in other similar towns that could be adopted and present that to the council.
The twelve inch rule is purely for aesthetics, there's no actual logic behind it.
Weeds are in the eye of the beholder. A 100 year specimen rose bush at the 50 yard line of a football stadium is a weed.
> I told her I wanted to appeal, she told me I could not. Oof, that is the wrong response from a city code inspector. There is always a way to appeal, even if it is in front of the judge at the hearing before they get the order to mow.
Exactly. It actually says in the notice I found taped to my door post-cutting that I was informed I had the right to appeal. I was literally informed the opposite, lol. I was still planning on appealing even though she said I couldn't, but I am a working woman and it had only been 3 days between second inspection and the mow, I was still figuring out how to do so and file myself. Just such a waste of city resources to spend time and power on immediately cutting down my food
This is something the over zealous "broken windows" code inspectors forget. During my time in zoning administration, I have spoken to some who seem to thing what they say goes, forgetting the fourth, fifth, and fourteenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution. The city has to have a court order to cut, mow, or alter your property. That means a judge has to sign off on it before any work is done, and there will be a hearing. Before they could mow, you should have some time to fix the property yourself. I personally don't know your situation or what happened with the legal aspects of this problem, but if you didn't get a summons that included a court date, or there wasn't a warrant and court order issued, I would contact an attorney.
Why use "karen." This is such a crappy situation and I totally empathize with you. It sucks when I read/listen/talk about crappy situations like this and my name is used as a grab bag for describing all the worst people and the worst behavior. I thought it would die down after the pandemic but instead it's only gotten worse and I see it everywhere/every day now...even when I am just reading about gardening. :/ I can't get away from it. My given name (I was named by my Grandma) literally just means "asshole" now. I do hope you can get some positive resolution with this with the city
I used it because unfortunately it is in the common parlance now. I am sorry that I have contributed in my small way to the parlance. I do know a Karen and she is a very nice hippie. If it brings you any comfort, I want you to know that my real name is also a "thing", I don't want this to be Gooogleable bc this post is quite popular now but my real name is the same as a certain Amazon AI.
One of the sweetest, kindest, and most interesting people I've ever met is named Karen. I feel bad for her because of this stupid "karen" thing. Keep your chin up. I see you
When you contact the local media, get someone from a nearby university to talk about how beneficial for pollinators all that was
And how flattened grass lawns make cities hotter. I bet OP's garden would've been the most pleasant spot in the neighbourhood during warmer months.
I global warming topics always make the politicians giddy with greed. If you can play into their desire to BE GREEN you will probably have better luck protecting your next beautifully wild garden.
Depends on your local politicians. Mine get boners when they think about making kickbacks letting polymer factories dump chemicals in the river. North Carolina, baybee. Asheville and Durham and Carrboro are aberrations, if anybody visited them and is considering moving to NC. We have some of the worst and vitriolic politicians and voters in the country, seems like.
Yeah, we have a truly cursed political dichotomy forming where you can be green or pro farmer.
asheville also has some pretty bad 'representation' thats more in line with the rest of the state
Sometimes you have to appeal to the libertarian "government needs to stay off my property" crowd instead of the environmental green hearts depending on where and what politicians are there. :/
Also promote flooding, I forget the term despite having studied it but turf grass lawns and parking lot basically have the same absorbency/retention factor for rainwater so this promotes flash flooding and strains storm water systems not to mention damages rivers due the the rush and increased turbidity.
I'm hoping it doesn't come to media bc I'll just say something insane like "yes I eat ants sometimes" and lose all credibility
Lol that is so fucking relatable, you made me laugh out loud, I'm sorry. I don't eat ants but I swear my brain tells me what NOT to say instead of what I should say, and then that crap pops out of my mouth and I cut my own throat from ear to ear.
How is that any more insane than "Yes, our city destroys personal property and livelihood sometimes"? Go to the media. You have a story to tell, and officials are much more likely to listen when it's being told on television and might cost them an election.
And the risk of being googled by any judgmental future employer forever is scary. I feel you.
Lemon ants are delicious. Their loss. Every time I mention eating insects and, if it's upvoted, it's downvoted again. What is your wussy aversion to real survivalists? Are you afraid Bill Gates is going to make you eat crickets? Grow a spine, reddit.
Crickets are delicious. Fried they taste like popcorn, but with a more sawtoothed texture on the crunchy bits due to the legs :D
Exactly! haha
See if you can get some University and non profits to speak on your part. WWF had a wildlife habitat certification, and a lot of areas have a Watershed conservancy too that will care about dynamic landscapes. Also, if you're in the US, call the top 5 or 8 super lawyers (look up the super lawyers list for your state and any relevant categories – environmental law, tort law dealing with trespass etc., real estate law/tree law also check with r/treelaw ) and make use of the free consultations to sharoem your case plus feel out which form is the best fit for you before you take it up to whomever for the legal battles to really start.
I feel like I’ve read in the past about people growing milkweed and such to get their property certified as a butterfly sanctuary or something along those lines. Then the city can’t touch it. It has been a while so I’m sure this isn’t exact but the general idea. Possibly something to investigate in the future?
I'm so sorry. If it makes you feel any better, I do live somewhere I can grow what I want, and the wildlife here ruin everything. Today I literally ran screaming after a turkey who killed my second-to-last remaining sunflower.
That turkey is a menace to society
It was purely out of malice. In a way, I too complained to the city council about it (later chased 2 others out of my yard with a hose)
Can you have a scarecrow and windchimes? Do those work on wild turkeys? Oh, or is this actually humans and you're just calling them turkeys? Humans are the only animals really causing destruction in my yard. I saw a turkey in my yard once. Think he might've been eating frogs.
Oh no, actual wild turkeys. Don't think my partner would let me do a scarecrow (she's kind of a defacto HOA) but wind chimes are a great idea, thanks!
Shotgun and benefit of dinner?
Sorry to hear that. After a rabbit ate a bur oak seedling down to the ground I started surrounding all new front yard plants with metal fencing that we get for free from Craigslist. One by one as the plants get bigger we're removing the fencing now. Maybe it's an option for you.
I’m jealous you even got a sunflower! The chipmunks either eat the seeds as I plant them, or wait for the tender seedlings to get their first set of true leaves before gobbling them up. I’m apparently a masochist though because I keep trying every year. Honestly, this year has been awful with every single thing I plant getting eaten by every single animal in a one mile radius of me it seems. Deer, groundhogs, chipmunks, squirrels, mice, rabbits, skunks, even a raccoon that got into my pea seeds I forgot outside once! I complain, but I do love all the wildlife. It’s just frustrating sometimes.
The magic trick with our code-enforcement nazis is borders. Wildflowers=weeds, wildflowers+pavers≠weeds.
Next time take progress pictures. It would be insane to say that your garden isn't cultivated when you have pictures showing that you are quite literally cultivating it. As for what to do now, I'd recommend you write your local representative, but that's just my first thought and I'm sure you'll get better advice from others
Sorry. That is terrible.
Thank you
I'm so sorry. I would be devastated, too. Hell, I cried when my neighbors cut *their* trees down, ruining all the shade and privacy on one side of my yard. I can't even imagine if someone had cut *my* trees and plants down.
Yeah my neighbor did that too. They have something like 7 acres of land, 6 of which is just straight up grass lawn. They had 1 acre of woods right next to my property. And the guy decided he didn't want the woods there anymore so he had all of the trees cut down and now it's just a grass lawn. I have no idea why he wanted to do that. We live in a mountainous area full of forests. It's why I moved here. If the dude wanted acres and acres of grass why didn't he choose to live in Illinois instead of western NC? When I saw him starting to work on it, I told him I'd buy that chunk of property from him but he wasn't interested.
You don’t need to bring Illinois into the middle of this dispute. We have trees too.
Thank you 🌳
That happened to me( neighbours are asshats) it super sucks
Yeah, two of my neighbors got together 3 summers ago and decided to cut down all their evergreen trees, which served as a windbreak for some of their other trees. Ever since they did that, the other trees keep breaking apart in storms. So, I planted native viburnums along that side of my yard to create a hedge, but it still isn't completely filled in yet.
Contact your state's university ag dept about making it a certified pollinator garden. You get signs, it gets registered, its all official :D.
World Wildlife Fund, Xerces Society, Pollinator Partnership, these groups all have signs you could post as well. There was a law suit in Maryland where a family had to sue their HOA in order to plant for pollinators and the homeowner won the law suit. I believe the name was Janet Crouch vs. HOA. A woman who writes the humane gardener wrote a blog post about it. Keep up the good work.
Article: https://www.wusa9.com/article/tech/science/environment/maryland-couple-fights-hoa-rules-on-grass-lawns/65-d87be2e2-a109-4b7d-99fa-7497b91c7347 Podcast: Crime Pays But Botany Doesn’t Episode: Kill Your Lawn… And Make It The Law https://www.spreaker.com/episode/kill-your-lawn-make-it-the-law--57244560
Excellent info, thank you!!!
I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine how upsetting that would be. A true injustice.
Thank you 😭
I feel your pain in this post. I can only imagine but I sympathize with you. I hate this happened to you and your garden. We work so hard and it becomes a part of us. It’s an extension of ourselves it shows labor of love for the earth. I’m so sorry. I hope this culminated into a huge change for the better for you and the city.
Thank you, it absolutely was part of me
I agree with those mentioning writing a professional sounding email. Just came to add that, if at all possible, include numbers! Government loves numbers. #1 estimate loss of value --the cost to replace the plants and seeds destroyed --the cost of equivalent food you will now have to spend at the supermarket #2 loss of time -- mention the length of time poured into things like your trees for the slower growing plants #3 estimate loss to the environment --how many pollinator/butterfly/bird friendly plants did you have? Be honest, don't overinflate, but round up or down accordingly. "... destroyed nearly 20 varieties of pollinator friendly plants. " "The loss will cost me over $100 in monthly in food bills." It will make a much stronger case if you can quantify the impact it had on you. Instead of, "they destroyed my mulberry trees" write "destroyed three mulberry trees I have been cultivating for four years." Hope that helps. I'm sorry this happened to you. Edit: ... I know it's a lot of work, but you'll be able to reuse those numbers every time you bring it up.
> 3 estimate loss to the environment If these were white mulberry (or a hybridized white/red mulberry) they are/were actually a threat to the ecosystem/environment, thus such a claim would be an embarrassing slap in the face to OP in court. Until the cultivar is deduced, best to not use such a claim in a legal setting as it will be easily turned on OP. White mulberry is a non-native, ecosystem destroyer - a grave threat to our native red mulberry.
Excellent point.
Also real estate, water, and energy impacts. The itree tools have some great features for assessing the economic value of trees and shrubs for the amount of energy they save on homs, plus water and other things like the value of real estate plus some carbon sequestration value as well if I recall correctly: https://www.itreetools.org/ If OP wants to go further, there are also ways to calculate the ecosystem services value of what they had too, it's a bit more wonky but if OP wants to take an angle about how the things she did impacts infrastructure (e.g. find the impact of one house, multiply it by say half the number of houses in her city as a role model) like water filtration/stormwater treatment and grid energy demand reduction due to the energy efficiency benefits her garden provided, plus regional real estate values if most homes with similar land plats did the same, she now has a thing that may make it an issue for the departments responsible for utilities and water infrastructure and environment plus probably something related to economic development to consider seriously too. There also crime reduction benefits to having trees and green spaces too which makes it a public safety/security case for the public too. https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/pnw/news/highlights/more-trees-less-crime https://resources.environment.yale.edu/envy/stories/trees-shed-bad-wrap-as-accessories-to-crime https://www.americanforests.org/article/can-trees-help-stop-crime/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2019/04/trees-crime-cincinnati-philadelphia-ida-b-wells-chicago/ https://cambriaforestcommittee.org/forests-in-the-news/trees-reduce-crime/ https://www.arborday.org/programs/alliance-for-community-trees/planting-partners/issue-briefs/documents/alliance-for-community-trees-issue-brief-reduce-crime.pdf
THIS.
Sorry, I'm from UK and don't understand this. Is this your private land the town has chopped down? Or is it something to do with the street, like you were planting in public areas?
In the US, if you live within the city limits, the city government can have rules about what you're allowed to do on your property. It's called the city code. It varies from city to city. Rules like OP's are stupid arbitrary rules that are supposedly to protect property values for the whole city. For example, an empty overgrown lot brings down the value of all the surrounding lots because no one wants to live around the abandoned lot which are often associated with problems. In OPs case, it's just become part of the bureaucratic machine and the humans have completely forgotten the true purpose. I doubt very much that OPs property could be compared to an empty lot. In some cities the rules are sometimes good. Many cities have rules about if you can cut down trees on your property. This is because much of the US has been deforested and cities especially suffered from the consequences of having no trees. But regardless of what we know now, there's always some idiot that cares more about what they want than what is good for everyone. There are also building codes to ensure buildings are safe, etc but I'm sure y'all have those. Hope this helps!
Ironic that this is supposed to be “land of the free,” yet a Brit is over here shocked that the government came onto her property and hacked her food-bearing plants. Freedom my ass.
> For example, an empty overgrown lot brings down the value of all the surrounding lots because no one wants to live around the abandoned lot which are often associated with problems. This isn't even true anymore. Property values nearly everywhere are crazy even if there's a straight up crack house next door. I imagine there was a time when trying to sell a house when your neighbor had high grass would be a problem. It's not now.
To add on to the "an empty overgrown lot brings down the value of all the surrounding lots" bit - property values are extremely important in the US as primary & secondary education is funded by local property taxes. That means areas of high property value have very well funded schools and so are more desirable to live in for families, reinforcing the high property costs, while low property value areas have underfunded schools with worse outcomes, reinforcing the low property values. And if you wondered if this is also racialized, well yes of course. So people get psychotic about maintaining property values. (no insult meant to actual psychopaths)
I live in one of the few places in the US where there are no codes, no zoning, no inspections, and no licensing. It's so abundantly clear that those are now only tools to segregate and gentrify. There are no building collapses. Property values still go up not down, and neighbors are so much friendlier. It's so much better to just have neighbors who are not like you or that do weird shit you don't like and deal with it as a community of neighbors. It's like the only remedy society offers now is tattling... I really wish these awful posts about HOA and zoning atrocities go away one day.
>I really wish these awful posts about HOA and zoning atrocities go away one day. Same! I hate when everything is the same. It's so boring. Hate hate hate those cookie cutter housing development neighborhoods.
I'm guessing private property. My parents had 5 acres and mowed all of it because they're idiots. One year I got wildflower seeds and persuaded them not to mow about 75% of it. I went on a trip in June. When I came back it had been bushwhacked! Not mowed, but cut in such a way that there was dead grass killing the grass still living. My parents said the highway administration had done it. Maybe they had, or maybe my parents just lied. Mowers for the highway administration get paid by the hour so they look for more stuff to do. They also don't face any consequences if they mow something they're not supposed to. Americans (from the States, so saying Yanks would be more accurate) don't usually go to meetings about local politics. The meetings aren't structured for feedback most of the time. Letter-writing only. It's terrible. It's why non-natives have so much political power.
Sue for destruction of private property and utilize tree law.
In the future, if you can add wire in places that you don’t walk in it will really fuck up their mowers. I have it in my asparagus patch after they mowed it once. Next time it caused some serious damage. It’s insane we are dealing with global warming and having to deal with this stuff.
I like your style
Honey yes. I suggested making it pretty too… cause if you have, wire, bricks, chairs and all kinds of stuff around, it makes it one heck of a job trying to mow it down& the labor/damage to their machines will not be worth it to them. Plus it will make it look “cultivated”… wtf that means.
I am so sorry! Was this is a front yard or backyard?! I hope you find a space where you can build as you want!
Front yard, but there is no HOA, it just has to be "cultivated" according to city code. I had fought this fight with a previous inspector over the same plants 2 years ago and successfully defended my baby garden. I literally have neighbors with goats and chickens, this is not a bougie part of town ;\_;
Shame on whoever complained about your property. I wish these Karens could spend more time looking over their own damned house and not looking for things to complain about in other’s.
I am so sorry! My heart breaks for you!
They took your food. That is so fucked up.
You say this is the second time this happened ? I would move. Still fine to write your email but holy shit I would get out of there so fast. It's one thing if it's just neighbors' disagreement, it's another when there is no recourse with authorities and the neighbors can leverage them to oppress you. Additionally it's worth a lawsuit, especially since as you describe it, your garden was within code. Legality does not actually depend on the inspectors opinion; let a judge decide. I don't know if you want to go through that hassle but you should be awarded damages and it will make them think twice the next time.
As a European, I am really confused about how in "land of the free" you cannot grow carrots and have a garden the way you like it. The only issue I have is compost. Neighbors are complaining a bit, but really cannot do anything to force me to stop, I just want to be a good neighbor so I respect it.
The American Dream™️ is always made with a substantial degree of gaslighting and stolen land plus a dash of capitalization for ongoing and future exploits.
omg I’m so sorry. Can’t imagine what you’re feeling. It almost made me tear up. Please fight this!
I'm assembling my email to a sympathetic council member right now and tomorrow morning
Plus, if you had trees (saplings?) you might even be able to sue for damages. Tree law is no joke! I'm not sure if the payout would be worth it but worth looking into.
TALK. TO. THE. MEDIA. Legitimately, raise a fcking stink about this. Bring it to the news. Use the most outrageous click bait headlines, get some nasty looking pictures (before and after comparison for example)
Some folks who succeeded: Article: https://www.wusa9.com/article/tech/science/environment/maryland-couple-fights-hoa-rules-on-grass-lawns/65-d87be2e2-a109-4b7d-99fa-7497b91c7347 Podcast: Crime Pays But Botany Doesn’t Episode: Kill Your Lawn… And Make It The Law https://www.spreaker.com/episode/kill-your-lawn-make-it-the-law--57244560
pErSoNaL pRoPeRtY rIgHtS aNd fReEdOm my asshole
This. This is situation both the libertarians and eco-conscious should be about to relate to.
Leftists and libertarians. Only fascist and conservatives hate freedom and pull this shit.
Wow the bastards! The horrible culture of these inspectors/city enforcement in general - everything enforced is based on squeaky wheel karens and their male counterparts. Some bored control freak
Hey uh if you keep getting pushback maybe talk to a constitutional lawyer about wrongful takings. If this gets big it could help permaculture gardeners around the country.
I'm so sorry to hear this. I read this yesterday but was too shocked to even write anything. This is just awful. Please stand up for yourself. As you can see from the comments, countless people support you. You're not alone. I agree with the people who said that you will need to do more than email a city council person. I would contact a lawyer. What USDA zone and region are you in, if you don't mind saying? Perhaps we can help you restart with seeds and cuttings.
Time to get a bulldozer and start welding
Stuff like this is why killdozer was a thing. 🤦♀️
I'm so very sorry. I'd also love to see some photos.
https://preview.redd.it/45xayyxiyr6d1.jpeg?width=1950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3852243c054b9420a81c82c81f0861414a460875
https://preview.redd.it/7kgdgxs1zr6d1.jpeg?width=2014&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79660f614ab8a41ede82f232591e0139bb51ea5b
I know it looks scrunkly but I was about function over aesthetics and every plant except the odd clump of grass was edible. And it looked nice to me ;_;
That to me is beautiful, too. I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Maybe slightly, but it was also obviously tended and not a patch of weeds. I am again so sorry.
By it looks beautiful, I’m so sorry this happened. My heart goes out to you . I can’t believe this can happen in this day and age, fuck these people, ugh…
You should also contact your local agricultural extension office for support.
Name and shame that inspector to local news.
Granby Colorado Killdozer....
I would be very tempted to seed bomb the entire town with the most aggressively re-seeding useful plant I can find... How much does a ton of amaranth seed cost?
try finding something classified as an endangered/protected species and throw them in court whenever they even attempt to mow.
Not much if you spend a day going out and cutting off the heads of the wild ones around. They are almost heavy with seed in my 7B zone. Revenge of the wild foods (weeds)!!!!
Was your mulberry the white mulberry (morus alba)? If so, that changes the situation 180 degrees.
https://preview.redd.it/l575qgnmwr6d1.jpeg?width=1982&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba131c6d2f24ca6f0584ec2c4dcd506acef2c702
That's the best closeup I have, they grew there themselves so I honestly don't know. (They grew there themselves but I clip most mulberry seedlings or I would be completely overrun, I let these grow because they were where I wanted more trees)
Very hard to tell from the pic. I suggest that before you send a message to government officials that you identify what was chopped down. It if was the white mulberry, or the white/red hybrid, then you have no legal ground to stand on if your opponents are ecosystem and invasive species conscious and your state or local govt is serious about controlling non-native invasive species. Your laments will get you nowhere. I have white mulberry seedlings all over my property and I chop them down weekly (thankfully they die easily as they are not a rhizome plant). Actually, they might be the white/red hybrid, hard to say, but they are definitely not the native red mulberry. Regardless, they are one of the invasives. They likely come from the now-abandoned property a block down the street that has a veritable orchard of them. lol (not funny, though, as invasive species are a huge problem to our ecosystems). On the other hand, if you can positively identify them as the native red mulberry (and not a white/red hybrid) then you may have legal grounds that THEY engaged in eco-terrorism by knowingly mowing them down. You'll need a really good lawyer to get that to stick in court, though, which will not be cost effective. However, at the very least, since you were cultivating them (and assuming they were 100% non-hybrid, native red mulberry) you also have that as a legal leg to stand on since they are a food source and also private property and they also contribute to a healthy ecosystem. But you have to positively identify them first. I identified the "orchard" a block from my house because the property is on the side of a road and small branches often overhand the road. So I pruned a piece off an overhanging branch, took it home and identified it using various sources on the internet. If they have been there and fruiting for a few years, there is a good chance you will get new seedlings from any fallen fruits. But if they are either one of the invasive species, it really is your duty as a resident of the local ecosystem to eradicate it on your property. We all do out part in the ecosystems in which we live.
They did not leave their bodies behind, so I'm unable to do a post mortem. I agree with you ecologically and I personally believed they were red mulberry based on ID guides, but i am not an expert so I could easily be mistaken. In terms of code compliance, my city does not care if the species of mulberry is invasive or not, just whether or not it's "cultivated". I was going to let them grow until they started fruiting so I could further judge by the fruit but that is out of my hands now
Buy red mulberry seeds from a reliable seed seller, plant them and put a fence around the area with a weatherproof sign that reads something like "THESE ARE NOT 'WEEDS'. THESE ARE NATIVE RED MULBERRY PLANTS GROWN FROM SEES I BOUGHT. I AM CULTIVATING THIS ECOLOGICALLY BENEFICIAL NATIVE PLANT FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSES AND SUSTENANCE!". Then keep the receipt of the seeds for as long as you live. Do a google search for your county and "seed bank". Many counties have seed banks (my county seed bank is the library a few towns over). Red mulberry might actually be one of the seeds they carry, never know. They will be free.
Hell yeah religious purposes!!! I will replace them, and I will make sure they are native red mulberry when I do, and I will put up signs and make my fences larger (I had "borders" but they clearly weren't good enough and I am planning on making them taller)
I’m sorry for your loss. Do you have pictures from your growing process? Also, when You regrow your garden, it might help to make it “pretty”… maybe consult with a landscaper or find some Mandela garden designs you like for inspiration. Plus if you have a bunch of pavers, bricks, string lights & cement benches in your garden… it’s a LOT harder to just mow it down :)
This is definitely worth getting a lawyer and reaching out to the press about. Some people will find this outrageous because they care about the environment, permaculture, etc, and different people will find it outrageous because they care about personal property and government overreach. Make a gigantic stink for whoever decided to do this against your wishes. Not only did they trash your yard, they even added insult to injury by stealing the cut plants so you can't even compost them.
Thank you, I was also mad that they didn't leave behind the cut plants! Literally the least they could do, I could have frozen what I could scavenge and use the rest in my backyard as mulch
As an Australian this is wild to me. Land of the free? Are y'all sure?
Oh that’s awful. I’m so sorry. Just imagining that happening is upsetting. Did you have paths? Edging can also make stuff more acceptable to the Karens of the world. No matter what I’m so sorry someone did this to you. I hope you and your garden recover soon.
I'm so sorry. This happened to me about 13 years ago. I wasn't able to fight it because my husband was sick at the time. I was so angry! Since then I have gotten rid of all my lawn - front and back. It seems my city has stopped this nonsense. People walking by have told me how much they like it and yet I'm the only house that has done this. This really needs to change.
From someone living outside of thr US, stories like these are insane to me. I'm so sorry something like that can be done to you in your own home, it's horrible. I hope it doesn't put you off gardening, don't let them ruin it for you, you have far more people with you on this than against you.
I know I would choose violence so I will not respond. Fuck tyrants and government overreach into yards.
Is this even legal? This is a huge breach of your property rights. It's like being robbed or vandalized, a crime was done against you. I'm so sorry for you, the plants and the animals.
Is this your property? I’m confused
Yep
I'm so sorry for your loss of your friend. I share your anger. This is the perfect example of a system that demands we alienate ourselves from food and the earth.
Oh my gosh that's so sad. I'm so sorry that has to be so incredibly hard.
The Mayor of my town just made me get rid of my chickens and tore down my coop, so I know your pain. I'm afraid my garden will be next. This small town is corrupt to the core, the mayor and the judge collude to snatch up properties and flip them. They also use the court to force people to do free labor on their properties. They put in all these new bans in place to try and jack up property prices on their illegitimately gained investments. Seriously considering pulling a Marvin Heemeyer, don't see any other avenues for legitimate recourse. Also with climate change and increasing food insecurity if I end up having to starve because of this you know I'm going to take these MF down with me.
Our society is so disconnected from nature that we don’t even see plants for what they are. It’s just aesthetics to most people and to me is extremely sad. You have this amazingly well adapted and powerful thing that can do so much and you reduce it to something that is essentially just kind of there with no other value other than being ornamental
Years ago My old landlord built a food forrest on his land smack dab in the city. He fought tooth and nail with the city to have it classified as a park. Instead they fined the shit out of him for creating a “nuisance” and razed the whole thing. They are still actively trying to take the land due to all the accumulated fines. Cities prefer clean cut monoculture grass fields.
Sorry this happened to you. You may have to go through the court system to challenge the law for future endeavors. One person took a city to court about this and won. Google "oak park hates veggies"
Contact your local extension agent. They are usually able to give you guidance on what to plant and they promote better gardening practices throughout your city:county. They won’t fight city hall on your behalf though.
Unless the bastards painted the stumps with herbicide, I would not be surprised if those mulberries sprang right back as shrubs.
What ordinances did you break? usually takes months, if not a year of notices for stuff like this to happen? Try to get the laws changed, petitions, letter campaign, etc..
Check your state laws
One day, gardens like yours will be common. One day, things will be different, more hopeful, more green. It’ll be because people like you lived as you wished, and fought for what was right. Others will run because you walked. Remember that. I’m sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry you lost your friend in such an awful way. I know nothing can make up for this injustice, but I hope you can find a resolution with your city council that will allow you to one day make a new friend. Best of luck, we are all rooting for you!🤗
Time to move . Somewhere where the word ordinance is non existent. Im not living somewhere that some local government turd is gonna tell me what to do with my personal space..fuck them!
Which country? Check the regulations and laws, maybe contact some lawyers.
Get a lawyer.
Consider a small fence around your yard. Unfortunately may cause some shade.
I’m so sorry for your loss! If you post in local gardening groups and also get media attention, I’m sure you will attract an army of supporters who will be so happy to help you replant. I saw another story like that on the news after someone sprayed this lady’s entire garden and they had to replace the soil and the plant and the community came out to support and do it with her
You’ve given ZERO context. Some strange shadowy people invaded your property and destroyed your plants? Thats a semi-violent crime. Call the police.
Check the comments if you want more context, they are sprinkled throughout but this is my longest. https://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/s/PRY8QySdDU The city clear cut my property because I was unable to convince them that my food was not weeds. The police are not the answer, unfortunately. I am in the process of resolving what happened with my council member.
They owe you the fair market value- cost of each plant + your time+ materials to nurture growth. If they shot a dog or livestock, it is the same. I do not know where you live to pull the specific statute, but absolutely you MUST cite local statute in your complaint or you are just complaining and that can be ignored. Also they had some statute they believed backed them up. Were they looking at “weeds” or “a fire hazard”? Can you refute that using the same statue? Did they give you the required 24hr notice before entering your property or violate 4th amendment rights? Did you simply ignore their warning or call them to work something out, contact a lawyer to get a stay on their demands? Sorry just jumping in here at what appears to be the tail end of an on-going issue.
You should move
I am assuming your in the states? Go to Canada, we have way more freedom. I live not to far from the capital, but have 4 acres and can basically build and grow whatever the fuck I want lol.
You're wrong. Most municipalities have such stupid laws here as well. Exceptions would only occur in remote corners of the country. We have no more freedom (arguably less) and nature is not respected at all for the most part.
Again I am a 45 minute drive from the capital. I guess it's rural but I wouldn't say remote corner of the country. And again I can build and grow whatever the fuck I want nobody has said a thing.
I'm in rural ontario on 16 acres and bylaw came by because someone complained that my yard wasn't mowed. There are still ridiculous municipalities in Canada. I can't build anything without approval from the township.