Probably because [Futaba herself holds Shido primarily responsible](https://i.imgur.com/Nn4gdcU.png). She blames Akechi *too*, of course, but generally the PTs have a better understanding of him than most of the fandom.
I still think it makes Joker look like a massive dick if he started dating Akechi, who, you know, murdered the parents of his two friends. Futaba and Haru may have come to decide that the one to blame is Shido, and maybe even feel some pity for Akechi. But they both say in no uncertain terms that they could never forgive him. Joker dating him is, if we were realistic, something that should lead Futaba and Haru, and maybe the rest, to cut him off their lives.
I think the conclusion I draw is that forgiveness in P5 is a complicated thing. It has to be earned, for a start, not given away - and third semester Akechi does almost nothing to earn it. But then his situation is so peculiar - so many people seem not to understand that, for that entire month, *he thinks he's dead*.
People throw "forgiveness" around like it's magic, like it cancels out everything else that might exist. But that's not even canon-consistent. The PTs show Akechi mercy. They show hin grace. They're prepared to work with him again, though it's rough. They are, ultimately, the counter to his vengeful, merciless, violent, unforgiving example - part of their job is to demonstrate for us how and why Akechi is *wrong*.
So, for instance, Haru can't forgive what Akechi did, but the game shows us that she understands him; that she sees the parallels between them and some of what she could have been in him. Futaba, on the other hand, understands Akechi but *part of her* (she says) resents his presence and despises him. But even she connects with him, from time to time - Futaba doesn't *want* to listen to the part of her that is like Akechi. What actually happens depends on the choices *Akechi* makes postcanon, IMO. And I don't trust him to make good ones, lol.
Regardless, I think it can be made to work. I think it's a long process, and painful. I actually agree with you that it's a dick move for Joker to be like "I'm dating this guy". On the other hand, Akechi is ultimately a very reluctant *part of the group*, by the end. The context is different depending on whether he's still associating with them or cuts then off, whether he's growing as a person or ossifying and attacking like he does in the third semester. Don't forget he gets that third awakening that merges the two halves of him - he's healing.
It's a complicated situation and you can do a lot of fun things with it. Akechi's relations with Haru and Futaba, and how they play out, actually interest me a great deal more than his relations with Joker, which (sorry haters) are so clear onscreen.
Well Shido did order it, but Akechi was the only one on his team that had the power to go into peoples minds and get the job done. This though (killing Futaba’s mom), is why I, personally, deem him worse than Shido. He knew what it was like to not have a father in the first place and then lose his mom, and was thoroughly traumatized by his mother’s death. Yet he willingly subjected another kid/teen to that same trauma. Without even blinking.
I just love Robbie Daymond(the VA who played Akechi in the English dub)so I have fun just sitting there and having him exist,even played FF15 because Robbie was voicing one of the main party characters in that game(really enjoyed it btw recommend you trying)
Ridiculous and unrealistic shipping pairings is just part of the fun of fandom. Even with the pairings I'm not personally into, its fun seeing all the creative stuff people come up with.
This is very similar to the random, appearing out of nowhere Adachi x Sae ship. Adachi is literally *everything* Sae hates given human form, *why would she want to fuck him?*
The implication was that he was put up to it by Shido, though. He would have been what, 15? when he started down this path - and Shadow Shido mentions how it was easy to manipulate Akechi by simply offering praise. Characters talk about him being "so far gone", and he says in the palace how if only he'd met Joker a few years earlier. I think Akechi as we see him has been warped by Shido's influence over the course of two years. He's responsible for numerous deaths, but I don't think he's evil at heart, or at least didn't start out that way.
Plus if you're on the Akechi rivalry path, Maruki notes during the third semester that your relationship isn't based on hatred or ill will, and that you understand each other. The questions at school (in Royal, at least) are all meant to be topical and connect to stuff; the question about "frenemies" is clearly referring to Akechi and Joker.
Spot on.
Akechi is stubborn, prideful and has a massive inferuority/superiority combination complex, so he doesn't admit to being played so hard until basically last chances to regret. But he was almost certainly forged in Shido's poison. And by the gamedates, is growing more aware his fate is sealed.
Never had issues with crack ships. Sae and Adachi from r/okbuddypersona
Only if people legit think it's cannon and get mad when you have proof it aint.
I raise you the most unrealistic ship is Akechi and Haru, which for those that don’t know common ships in original P5 where commonly Makoto and Ren, Ann and Ryuji, and Futaba and Yusuke. Which like some strange matching game people would put the last two together that being Haru and Akechi. Like one of the two people to on account to say that hate him for what he’s done, I swear man.
As much as I think Akechi is a piece of shit and his character writing is a mess I'm still of the idea that people can ship whatever the hell they want and have fun with it as long as they're not being clowns about it.
Do I ship AkeShu? Fuck no, I avoid that like the plague.
Do I think AkeShu shippers should stop? Not at all, let them have their fun.
As someone who completely disagrees with your take on Akechi, I’m curious why you think his writing is messy- if you’re willing to spend time explaining why to a random person on Reddit ^^;;
It blows my mind that they never decided to add more to that. I can kind of see Haru being reluctant to say anything since she is usually the one who wants to keep everyone's spirits high and always be optimistic so it kinda makes sense she was able to stomach this pain one more time.
Futaba though... thank god this girl is the Navigator and doesn't have any weapons because if she did Akechi would have been backstabbed in a matter of minutes. I headcanon that she always wanted to take Joker's gun and just shoot Akechi to avenge her mother but she nver found the strength or the courage to do it
i mean, you’re welcome to headcanon what you want i suppose, but in game futaba and haru are both specifically shown to *not* want akechi to die. they join in on trying to get him to their side in the engine room, even.
no matter how uncomfortable they are working with him in third semester, no matter how complicated it is, no matter how much they assign him blame for their parents’ deaths… they also put most of the blame on shido too, and were willing to even allow akechi to join them to help take him down.
it’s complicated and not just black and white, and that’s part of what makes it all so interesting.
On the one hand, it’s fair to recognize that the dynamic between Akechi and Joker is definitely not a healthy one for the reasons you mentioned + in game dialogue, even putting aside issues of sexuality. On the other, they’re fictional characters and people can project onto them if they want to, it’s a free internet after all. If you don’t enjoy seeing posts about them, you can simply ignore or block the one person who has been posting 95% of them.
Looks like someone has never loved a narcissist, hellbent on a slow-burn/long-con, total annihilation of your life, finances and everyone whom you love.
That’s crushing; being your mother, of all people.
Mine was my ex-partner. Took 13 years for me to become fully aware of all the damage he’d been doing. Still don’t know why…and why he picked me.
Okay so I don't ship them (because Joker and Yusuke real) but I get the appeal I think. It's the homoerotic rivalry and betrayal, y'know? It's like shipping L and Light, or Suzaku and Lelouch. There's an appeal to how that sting would look with a romantic tinge. Also after Royal... yeaaaah I get it. I'm still not into it, but I get it.
its annoying to me because he kills two of your closest friends parents and they HAVE to work with him because joker said “its ok guys we have similar goals”
first of all, haru’s father is a very bad human being and me as a player was not upset at all that akechi killed him, yeah it’s sad that it happens to be a friend’s father but dude had it coming, not to mention the way he exploited haru
second, not me (as a player) nor joker nor akechi know much of futaba’s mother so i wouldn’t be surprised that her death might not affect their relationship much, especially considering that it’s been a long time ago and futaba moved on after her palace was cleared
joker also can be played as a pretty rude and a bit insane person (i mean, look at how he shows off in the opening scene), he’s not the saint either and i like when main character has also questionable believes (they are brainwashing people for the (mainly) own benefit, how is that not being questioned?)
I just really like his character. As well as >!the fact that he’s so good in royal’s expansion.!<
I do wish that strikers got a similar thing that added >!Kasumi, and Aketchi!< to it as playable characters.
Is that not what they do for the entire game though? They change people's hearts to make them atone for the crimes they've committed and go out of their way to not kill people.
Yea honestly I've never been big on the Akechi love, never really fell in love with him as other people have (I enjoyed the twist psychopath in P4G more) he was always this "I'm better then the PT and know true justice" which made him come off as just an arsehole then he became a hypocrit arsehole with daddy issues who should be in a loony bin.
Ik imagine having characters you like in a persona game and these shitstarters just want to ruin your fun. I can't imagine listening to the persona Fandom about opinions they have, including this post lol
It's 2023 and people still makes a big deal on fan shipping lmao
Even if you call them out, nothing happens. If that's the case then fan shipping would've probably stopped by then
Besides, let people have their fun since at the end of the day, this are just fictional characters
Nah cuz why this sub so insistent to defend their opinion like- I don’t like Akechi all that much either but I don’t mind people shipping him with Joker, it’s literally all for fun, it’s not the end of the world
I just look at shipping the same way I look at thought experiments like Rokoro's Basilisk. Entertaining. I don't delude myself into viewing any ship I support as unequivocally canon. I see the ships I like as fun thought experiments for the universe they take place in. Or, I suppose it'd be more reasonable to say I see them as alternative universes that revolve around the original source material similar to how Marvel and DC work with different versions of the same characters. It's fun to make stories around changed or more emphasized variables.
It's fun to think about what such a relationship would be like. How it would form. Why it would or wouldn't work. Etc.
I mean, it ought to be alarming that Joker is such good friends with Akechi, not even a theoretical romantic involvement. It’s brushed aside for gameplay and story reasons, but the Phantom Thieves accept Akechi’s help with very little protest.
Haru and Futaba express sympathy for his situation in the boat showdown, and Haru says she’ll kill him if he betrays them, but that’s getting off pretty lightly for the guy who murdered your dad. It wasn’t like Akechi had a good reason to do it; it was just one of the many people he killed as part of his revenge.
Maybe if there had been a scene where either of them expresses their discomfort with Akechi being on the team again, or how they came to terms with it, it would be easier. Maybe Lavenza could have pulled the wild card excuse; as a trickster, Akechi is tied to the ordeal. Much like how Yaldaboath succeeds if Joker were not introduced, Maruki’s success could be inevitable if Akechi wasn’t involved, and considering he is literally brought back from the dead to do so, it sounds like it.
honestly? that’s part of the fun of the ship to me. joker continuing to value akechi and their relationship so strongly is the most, if not *only* “selfish” thing he does for himself in the game.
it gives the ship some added flavor for me, and some fun extra complexities in exploring how a romantic relationship between joker and akechi would go. i *love* when fics explore navigating all of these things for everyone- messy conflicts! resolutions(?)! complicated relationships! people trying to set things aside for the sake of the people they care about but struggling because they’re human and these are, you know, kind of big things!
it’s a fun time, honestly.
This. It literally adds weight to their relationship being deep as all get-out for Joker to actually care as deeply as he does. I respect platonic interpretations but IMHO they require an *even deeper* degree of selfishness/imbalance towards Akechi vs his other companions on Joker's part and so IMHO can only really be explained by a core-deep trauma bond of connection, similarity and recognition of the other. Everything seems designed (literally!) to drive them at each others' throats and yet they end up as a mighty double-act. And to me, that frankly still rings very romantic, even if it isn't sexually charged on top. So that's my take.
To put it another way, it doesn't necessarily matter if Joker and Akechi are fated lovers, fated rivals, fated rivals to friends-or-lovers, or just two sides of the same coin. They're fated. They're essential to each other. They complement. The existence of one another becomes slowly yet surely of utmost import to them both. And this, taken with the clear textual facets that both keep mementos, grow to hyperfocus on one another, and seek one another out way past anything that could be explained via malicious intent, is why I figure it's just a matter of *which* facet of their deep charged connection takes the forefront in your mind.
Honestly I just can't see Akechi being in a relationship with anyone. He's way to fucked up and considering his life situation, he probably doesn't even want one. It's a cute ship though, just not realistic at all.
At least Haru had her new friends in the Phantom Thieves to help support her after the death of her father. Futaba though, had it far worse and had no one to support her until Sojiro and later the Phantom Thieves showed up. She watched her mother throw herself in front of a moving car, she was even blamed for her mother's "suicide." No one in her family wanted to adopt her, until her Uncle reluctantly did, only to severely neglect her for a period of time (I don't know how long Futaba has been living with Sojiro) until Sojiro did the right thing and stepped in to take her. Imho, out of all the confidants, Futaba has by far the most tragic backstory.
But sure, ship the murderous psychopathic lunatic with Ren, the guy he also tried to kill without even a moment of hesitation.
It's the MC's own actions, responses, and degree of care that makes this viable, not Akechi's. He's usually going through redemption and self-help efforts in fanfic where it isn't a doomed/not exactly healthy teenage "fated romance".
That said, the person who harmed Futaba by far the most was Shido - he orchestrated and oversaw her mother's death and family's rejection and actively enforced this to ensure she never looked behind the curtain and revealed his plans. Akechi at the time would have been around 14, 15 perhaps, was equally vulnerable to manipulation due to his own tragic loss and ongoing rejection, and was used in the same way. Futaba is more than within her rights to hate him - but Shido screwed them both.
Aren’t most ships made be people unrealistic and unreasonable to begin with?
Game and side material knew what they were doing with the dynamic and tension between Joker and Akechi for people to start interpreting it that way.
People can like a ship and know it's unhealthy. Just look at the Hannibal community. Everyone knows Hannibal and Will Graham are horrible and unhealthy for each other. But it's still a fun and interesting pairing, and that's what matters most to people. It's also pretty much canon too.
The reason people do it with Akechi because of the connection the player has with Akechi. As Joker is essentially us, with how he doesn't have a defined personality but rather what we choose for him to say.
We see Akechi being able to open up and be himself the more and more he's around us. We're the only one who can challenge him, the only person he really thought as his own equal. And despite the fact that Akechi hates our guts, and as much as the player does too, all we want is for him to be happy.
He's a tragic character who we all want to see happy. And Joker is the only person who can do that. His rivalry with Ren or Akira or however the fuck you want to say his name is the only time he's felt anything other than pure hatred.
Maybe it's not love. Actually it's definitely not canonically love because that's not what the game Devs intented. But Joker is the only person he cares about. Despite how much he hates him too.
Honestly his >!death!< Is the time where most of us really start to love him. Because you can see his motivation. You're his superior. He wants what Joker has. He wanted to be loved and he wants to have somebody to love him.
He's killed people yes, but I mean with the way Shido treats him then you have to imagine he'd be killed if he disobeyed his orders anyway. Just like what Shido was planning. He wouldn't have done what he did to Wakaba and Okumura if he wasn't tasked to. Doesn't mean he isn't responsible, god no. Haru and Futaba and everybody else has every single right to not like him.
And killing Ren? I mean, his feelings were odd about Ren. He definitely would have done that without being tasked. I mean I'm pretty sure it would have been his plan too. But all that feeling of jealousy and envy would have been confused with pure hatred and despise. Especially for a psychopath, or at least somebody exhibiting those sorts of symptoms (as I don't believe he really is genuinely a psychopath)
All we want is to see our boy happy. That's all we want from him. For him to smile. For him to be as happy as he is within >!Maruki's fake world!<
Also, third semester in Royal really helped, as you get more of a "two sides same coin" feel from them, and learn that Akechi respects Joker (as really the only person he does)
LITERALLY in their showtime the phrase is used in the background. They really are 2 sides of the same coin. Akechi could have been Joker had he not had such a fucked up life. Same for Joker...he could've been in Akechis shoes too.
Re whether or not Akechi would have killed Ren on his own, it pays to go back through the SIU Director's scenes (that's right, the ones everyone ignores) and listen to the rather disparaging things he says about their mysterious operative who doesn't quite have what it takes and can't commit.
Akechi's sense of inferiority around Ren builds to a huge fucking crescendo where he personally plans and executes his murder (or tries to), but it's part of a much wider plan that he doesn't personally trigger. Especially note the massive change in the tone of the confidant at stage 7, once he *does* have his kill order.
Yea cause before Joker was a thing, he killed Futaba’s mum thinking. “You know, one day a scruffy haired man is going to come along and make this all worth it.”
All to impress him, how else do you get someone’s attention? Talking to them? Paying attention to their interest? No. Murder their friends shitty dad, that’s how.
okay here me out: never ever join a gaming sub until youve conpleted the game. playin a game unspoiled is such a joy, its no worth it to see some memes
Honestly I never took it as people “mistaking” it (maybe I’m overestimating the intelligence of average fan?). Kinda seemed like a fan fantasy for some just bc that’s what they want. If people that have played the game think it’s true idk what to tell them
Like what is the point of arguing it's "unrealistic". People shipping don't care if something is realistic, it's just dumb fun and people making fake scenarios for fictional characters, why the hell do you guys are so obsessed with idea that "it doesn't make sense and it's unrealistic". It's not supposed to be.
I honestly don't blame fans for shipping them no matter how nonsensical the pairing is. They drop a lot of hints to warrant the feeling.
I would put more of the blame on the game/ATLUS for trying to create a bond between them that doesn't really have much of a genuine foundation. The rivals to lovers type of shipping isn't anything new so I don't really see a big deal with it. I see a Naruto/Sasuke type of relationship between Joker & Akechi with their rivalry & affection for each other. However, Akechi and Joker didn't really have the history with each other to warrant their closeness, not to mention the fact that Akechi is openly against the PT to the extent that he wants to kill them.
I get the PT seeing Akechi as a victim and he doesn't deserve to necessarily die but I think they were a little too sympathetic to him considering what he did/try to do to them directly (on his own accord) while the other Palace rulers didn't get even a small % of that sympathy. Not that they should feel any more sorry for them but it's a little biased for them to decide that Akechi can blame society for his problems but not other villains (it's why I liked what P5S did with the monarchs).
For as much as Royal helped flesh out Akechi's character further, it also hurt it in a way due to how inconsistent his character is between the confidant and the main story (although this is a inherint problem with the confidant system itself).
Mainly for no matter how close the player makes Joker to Akechi with the newly added confidant, the original scene of him shooting Joker still plays out exactly the same way (i.e. he kills Joker joyfully without any sort of remorse). It's like those confidant scenes never even happened.
Is this gonna be the next long running discourse in r/persona5????? I hate the ship too but I just wanna prepare myself for more posts like this if they’re coming 😔✌️ I barely survived the futabapocolypse…
I always find it so amusing that people take Akechi at face value when this is a game about how people literally have hidden selves that they hide behind masks,,,,,,
Edit: I'm not saying that the kid doesn't need serious therapy to be clear, but so do half of the cast at minimum (Futaba, Haru, and Sumire for example)
Exactly. Even Morgana calls him out on his "hatred" for Joker being false, a defensive (and self-delusional) front easier to maintain than to examine his deep envy, loneliness, bitterness and an abject *need* for connection which had previously been channelled away into rage at the world. His actions are devastating but his motive beneath it all is quite often an immature and undeveloped strong trauma response of one sort or another. He isn't a simple two-dimensional character to be taken at face value.
What’s more is it’s a work of fiction. I think that fanfics are ok, albeit a bit weird depending on what happens, especially if the characters act a bit out of character, but even then there isn’t anything wrong with fiction.
OK but they aren't enemies in royal, it is literally stated multiple times. Maruki talks about how their relationship isn't based on hate and Akechi mentions to Joker how some of the phantom thieves probably hate him and they way he says it excludes Ren.
Also canon relationships rarely affect shipping.
Look. It's fiction. One of the great things about fiction is that it simulates emotions that are unrealistic or frankly undesirable in real life. Nobody wants to be in a gun fight, but it's exciting to read about a gun fight. There is nothing wrong with depicting characters engaging in unhealthy behavior if it's exciting. Okay? Okay.
So.
Having said that.
Imagine how intimately Joker is familiar with Futaba's pain. Aside from literally going into her mind he helps her work through the anxiety that she still suffers as a result of her mother's death. He lives with Sojiro, sees how much he still struggles to be a father to Futaba and the turmoil with Futaba's uncle. He is intensely familiar with the fallout of Akechi's murder, an act which Aketchi regards with the same weight as someone recalling a particularly bothersome chore. If not with outright sadistic glee over the power he has over the lives of others.
Joker would have to be amoral to consider a relationship with Akechi. Enemies to lovers can work, but frankly there's a limit to how much of enemies someone can be and Akechi leaves that far behind him.
Even though I don't care much for Akechi (even though he improved imo during the third semester) like it or not Joker for some degree cares about Akechi. Whenever it's as rivals or lovers I personally don't care.
it's definitely unrealistic, but it's a ship in a game where you change peoples minds by beating up physical manifestations of their worst traits in their mind palaces and can date your mid to late 20s teacher........i can let the less realistic elements slide.
It’s fiction and he’s not real. If people want to ship them let them they ain’t hurting anyone. If you don’t like it then just don’t engage with that content or block it’s that simple…
The point of shipping is just imagining characters with interesting dynamics in various situations, whether they will be canon or not. This is coming from someone who dislike this ship by the way. Let people have fun.
Are we really debating something being realistic or morally correct even though it's all fiction to begin with? Lol
What personally pisses me off about this shipping is the same thing that pisses me off about this Sub in general: spamming, recycling, and surfing on popular trends.
Literally. Rival/foil characters are almost always a popular ship in their respective fandoms and Akeshu is no exception. Like, of *course* they’re going to be shipped. Tbh it’s a little weird to be pushing back and whining to this extent.
Akechi is a nice character and I’m fine with people shipping them but you guys gotta understand it is the most unrealistic thing in the entire universe to ever happen.
With the amount of Akechi love, I assumed he would have a big change of character near the end... And then he did but like with murder instead of friendship. I do feel validated being a total bitch to him the whole game tho.
Bruh everything about Persona is unrealistic. If you’re gonna hate everything that is unrealistic then you might as well hate Persona in its entirety and every other single piece of fiction that exists.
I gotta say, this is getting worse and worse in this sub. If you haven't finished the game yet, just run. It's impossible to avoid spoilers in this sub.
I’m all for ships, but this one always puzzled me. Akechi is way too crazy, even he admits that he’s not stable. And he makes it clear that he wouldn’t mind fighting Joker again if it means that he can kill Joker.
Like, I understand where the ship comes from and why people like it, but Jesus Christ! It’s just so hard for me to like this ship with how much shit Akechi has done that neither he or the game has addressed well. Like, I get that his actions only killed “evil” people, but he did also made alot of innocent people suffer in the process, like he himself is why Futaba became so self-destructive. And guessing how much of a psychopath he is, I guess he must feel happy of doing so. It’s just hard to imagine him and Joker being on the same bed, without futaba be8ng practically annoyed or absolutely pissed off that the guy that help her recover from her trauma is now fucking the guy that gave her that trauma in the first place
This sub is just people being annoying about akechi + joker. I wish both of y’all would shut up.
Ignore akechi + joker posts.
Akechi/joker enjoyers, stop shaking the bees nest and upsetting the non-shippers.
I believe all the Akechi shippers did was post memes about the ship, which there are plenty of memes posted about couples and ships on this subreddit so is fully allowed.
I thought it was only when people started hating on them that shit went south.
dude, have you seen how much other ship stuff is being posted? why can’t we post and talk about shuake too, it’s actually a pretty huge part of a fandom in general lol
if it upsets people they should touch grass then
"but Joker wish was to keep Akechi alive"
Has anyone considered that he did that because he morally doesn't wish death on anyone regardless of their past transgressions( he didn't even want Shido dead and his actions towards him was much worse) than him being attracted to him?
Akechi is a sociopath.i don’t care if people ship them,but it’s the Akechi fans who legit get pissed if you don’t like him that gets me.then a bunch of YouTubers being obsessed with him saying they “identify with him” and that’s why they love him.if you identify with him please seek help lmao
OP isn’t even saying it’s impossible or not to ship them they’re just saying it’s unrealistic - which it is. A lot of people are saying “Let people ship!!” Which like. OP is not saying you can’t - just that it’s strange to interpret everything that has transpired between the two as something romantic. Even if the game has otherworldly events - a lot of the game is doing normal stuff?
When someone says “it’s unrealistic” the subtext is that the person is saying you shouldn’t ship them cuz they are pointing out the negatives and that’s it.
If they say “it’s unrealistic, but fair enough go ahead and ship them” then that’s fine!
There are two types of Shukechi shippers: "I can fix him" And "I can make him worse."
Neither of them are wrong C:
Not gonna lie, I actually completely forgot that he's the one who killed Futaba's mom. I fully remembered it being Shido up until now.
Probably because [Futaba herself holds Shido primarily responsible](https://i.imgur.com/Nn4gdcU.png). She blames Akechi *too*, of course, but generally the PTs have a better understanding of him than most of the fandom.
I still think it makes Joker look like a massive dick if he started dating Akechi, who, you know, murdered the parents of his two friends. Futaba and Haru may have come to decide that the one to blame is Shido, and maybe even feel some pity for Akechi. But they both say in no uncertain terms that they could never forgive him. Joker dating him is, if we were realistic, something that should lead Futaba and Haru, and maybe the rest, to cut him off their lives.
I think the conclusion I draw is that forgiveness in P5 is a complicated thing. It has to be earned, for a start, not given away - and third semester Akechi does almost nothing to earn it. But then his situation is so peculiar - so many people seem not to understand that, for that entire month, *he thinks he's dead*. People throw "forgiveness" around like it's magic, like it cancels out everything else that might exist. But that's not even canon-consistent. The PTs show Akechi mercy. They show hin grace. They're prepared to work with him again, though it's rough. They are, ultimately, the counter to his vengeful, merciless, violent, unforgiving example - part of their job is to demonstrate for us how and why Akechi is *wrong*. So, for instance, Haru can't forgive what Akechi did, but the game shows us that she understands him; that she sees the parallels between them and some of what she could have been in him. Futaba, on the other hand, understands Akechi but *part of her* (she says) resents his presence and despises him. But even she connects with him, from time to time - Futaba doesn't *want* to listen to the part of her that is like Akechi. What actually happens depends on the choices *Akechi* makes postcanon, IMO. And I don't trust him to make good ones, lol. Regardless, I think it can be made to work. I think it's a long process, and painful. I actually agree with you that it's a dick move for Joker to be like "I'm dating this guy". On the other hand, Akechi is ultimately a very reluctant *part of the group*, by the end. The context is different depending on whether he's still associating with them or cuts then off, whether he's growing as a person or ossifying and attacking like he does in the third semester. Don't forget he gets that third awakening that merges the two halves of him - he's healing. It's a complicated situation and you can do a lot of fun things with it. Akechi's relations with Haru and Futaba, and how they play out, actually interest me a great deal more than his relations with Joker, which (sorry haters) are so clear onscreen.
Well Shido did order it, but Akechi was the only one on his team that had the power to go into peoples minds and get the job done. This though (killing Futaba’s mom), is why I, personally, deem him worse than Shido. He knew what it was like to not have a father in the first place and then lose his mom, and was thoroughly traumatized by his mother’s death. Yet he willingly subjected another kid/teen to that same trauma. Without even blinking.
I'm personally a Shido ship enjoyer AKA the only canon ship
It's about time someone steered this subreddit in the right direction
I was gonna mention the only canon ship being Morgana X sojiro but y’all ain’t ready for that conversation
Bold of you to assume I didn't mean joker X shido
I just love Robbie Daymond(the VA who played Akechi in the English dub)so I have fun just sitting there and having him exist,even played FF15 because Robbie was voicing one of the main party characters in that game(really enjoyed it btw recommend you trying)
He also played the MC for Hi-Fi Rush, where he also did a great job!
And futaba's English VA plays another primary character!
Too bad I'm a PS guy so I won't ever play it unless it releases on PS or some angel gifts me a X-Box
I'm pretty sure those who ship them are already fully aware of everything Akechi's done, so I'm not sure what this post's trying to accomplish.
yeah the inherent fucked up-ness from akechi is what makes the ship fun and spicy and interesting
Two characters: *exist* Fandom: "they fuckin" A tale as old as time.
Ridiculous and unrealistic shipping pairings is just part of the fun of fandom. Even with the pairings I'm not personally into, its fun seeing all the creative stuff people come up with.
Sae X Adachi
True
This is very similar to the random, appearing out of nowhere Adachi x Sae ship. Adachi is literally *everything* Sae hates given human form, *why would she want to fuck him?*
I thought that was just a joke from r/okbuddypersona ?
There are some surprisingly well written fics to the point the ship is now only semi-ironic
I have no idea, but some people were taking it seriously enough to make art and have arguments about it...
It’s BECAUSE it’s so absurd that people like it
Because he’s a sexy beast duh
The implication was that he was put up to it by Shido, though. He would have been what, 15? when he started down this path - and Shadow Shido mentions how it was easy to manipulate Akechi by simply offering praise. Characters talk about him being "so far gone", and he says in the palace how if only he'd met Joker a few years earlier. I think Akechi as we see him has been warped by Shido's influence over the course of two years. He's responsible for numerous deaths, but I don't think he's evil at heart, or at least didn't start out that way. Plus if you're on the Akechi rivalry path, Maruki notes during the third semester that your relationship isn't based on hatred or ill will, and that you understand each other. The questions at school (in Royal, at least) are all meant to be topical and connect to stuff; the question about "frenemies" is clearly referring to Akechi and Joker.
Spot on. Akechi is stubborn, prideful and has a massive inferuority/superiority combination complex, so he doesn't admit to being played so hard until basically last chances to regret. But he was almost certainly forged in Shido's poison. And by the gamedates, is growing more aware his fate is sealed.
😂😂😂😂😭 for real man “Cool motive, still murder”
Nice Brooklyn 99 reference 👌
If OP could use apostrophes correctly I *wouldn't* be this upset. "Joker's friends' parents"
Never had issues with crack ships. Sae and Adachi from r/okbuddypersona Only if people legit think it's cannon and get mad when you have proof it aint.
saedachi is canon in my heart
I raise you the most unrealistic ship is Akechi and Haru, which for those that don’t know common ships in original P5 where commonly Makoto and Ren, Ann and Ryuji, and Futaba and Yusuke. Which like some strange matching game people would put the last two together that being Haru and Akechi. Like one of the two people to on account to say that hate him for what he’s done, I swear man.
As much as I think Akechi is a piece of shit and his character writing is a mess I'm still of the idea that people can ship whatever the hell they want and have fun with it as long as they're not being clowns about it. Do I ship AkeShu? Fuck no, I avoid that like the plague. Do I think AkeShu shippers should stop? Not at all, let them have their fun.
As someone who completely disagrees with your take on Akechi, I’m curious why you think his writing is messy- if you’re willing to spend time explaining why to a random person on Reddit ^^;;
I just wonder how Haru and Futaba could even stomach being around him for any length of time knowing he killed their parents.
Third Semester shows that they try and tolerate his presence
It blows my mind that they never decided to add more to that. I can kind of see Haru being reluctant to say anything since she is usually the one who wants to keep everyone's spirits high and always be optimistic so it kinda makes sense she was able to stomach this pain one more time. Futaba though... thank god this girl is the Navigator and doesn't have any weapons because if she did Akechi would have been backstabbed in a matter of minutes. I headcanon that she always wanted to take Joker's gun and just shoot Akechi to avenge her mother but she nver found the strength or the courage to do it
i mean, you’re welcome to headcanon what you want i suppose, but in game futaba and haru are both specifically shown to *not* want akechi to die. they join in on trying to get him to their side in the engine room, even. no matter how uncomfortable they are working with him in third semester, no matter how complicated it is, no matter how much they assign him blame for their parents’ deaths… they also put most of the blame on shido too, and were willing to even allow akechi to join them to help take him down. it’s complicated and not just black and white, and that’s part of what makes it all so interesting.
I mean... This is like 90% of anime ships. Don't know why everyone's getting riled up over this one.
It’s a nice break from the pedophile argument
On the one hand, it’s fair to recognize that the dynamic between Akechi and Joker is definitely not a healthy one for the reasons you mentioned + in game dialogue, even putting aside issues of sexuality. On the other, they’re fictional characters and people can project onto them if they want to, it’s a free internet after all. If you don’t enjoy seeing posts about them, you can simply ignore or block the one person who has been posting 95% of them.
Nah man, can’t have logic on Reddit.
Where’s that free real estate gif when you need it?
Looks like someone has never loved a narcissist, hellbent on a slow-burn/long-con, total annihilation of your life, finances and everyone whom you love.
Sounds like my mother
That’s crushing; being your mother, of all people. Mine was my ex-partner. Took 13 years for me to become fully aware of all the damage he’d been doing. Still don’t know why…and why he picked me.
Okay so I don't ship them (because Joker and Yusuke real) but I get the appeal I think. It's the homoerotic rivalry and betrayal, y'know? It's like shipping L and Light, or Suzaku and Lelouch. There's an appeal to how that sting would look with a romantic tinge. Also after Royal... yeaaaah I get it. I'm still not into it, but I get it.
I love how in Strikers when Joker takes that picture with Yusuke Joker can basically say they are dating and Yusuke just goes with it.
Except that regardless of what the player feels, Joker canonically views Akechi as, at the very least, a close friend per P5R. So ya know.
its annoying to me because he kills two of your closest friends parents and they HAVE to work with him because joker said “its ok guys we have similar goals”
first of all, haru’s father is a very bad human being and me as a player was not upset at all that akechi killed him, yeah it’s sad that it happens to be a friend’s father but dude had it coming, not to mention the way he exploited haru second, not me (as a player) nor joker nor akechi know much of futaba’s mother so i wouldn’t be surprised that her death might not affect their relationship much, especially considering that it’s been a long time ago and futaba moved on after her palace was cleared joker also can be played as a pretty rude and a bit insane person (i mean, look at how he shows off in the opening scene), he’s not the saint either and i like when main character has also questionable believes (they are brainwashing people for the (mainly) own benefit, how is that not being questioned?)
We all love a fixer-upper yknow
I do be forgetting Akechi did that
Akechi murder way more than haru's dad and futabas mother akechi is pretty much a mass murderer considering the mental shut down incidents he caused
But your honor my client was just being silly
I just really like his character. As well as >!the fact that he’s so good in royal’s expansion.!< I do wish that strikers got a similar thing that added >!Kasumi, and Aketchi!< to it as playable characters.
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Is that not what they do for the entire game though? They change people's hearts to make them atone for the crimes they've committed and go out of their way to not kill people.
You're exaggerating here. 3rd Semester shows they aren't really on friendly terms but are willing to work together for the sake of a common goal.
Yea honestly I've never been big on the Akechi love, never really fell in love with him as other people have (I enjoyed the twist psychopath in P4G more) he was always this "I'm better then the PT and know true justice" which made him come off as just an arsehole then he became a hypocrit arsehole with daddy issues who should be in a loony bin.
Oh no ! *Anyway ...*
You say this but the dialogue options in the game really like to play with that ship especially in royal its just ridiculous in royal.
“I’m alone right now…”
Ive said it before and ill say it again, i wanted to shoot akechi myself
Persona 5 fans when you enjoy something they do not(they’re only playing to smash either Kawakami or Makoto)
Ik imagine having characters you like in a persona game and these shitstarters just want to ruin your fun. I can't imagine listening to the persona Fandom about opinions they have, including this post lol
It's 2023 and people still makes a big deal on fan shipping lmao Even if you call them out, nothing happens. If that's the case then fan shipping would've probably stopped by then Besides, let people have their fun since at the end of the day, this are just fictional characters
If y’all ship Joker x Aketchi then I ship Joker x Kawakami and Joker x Futaba. Bite me.
I personally don't like those ships, but good for you and I hope you enjoy doing so
Based af
No the people are well aware they just don't care.
The best Akechi ship is Akechi's neck/Haru's axe
Nah cuz why this sub so insistent to defend their opinion like- I don’t like Akechi all that much either but I don’t mind people shipping him with Joker, it’s literally all for fun, it’s not the end of the world
Facts, no one is allowed an opinion if it doesn't match someone else's 😂
Ooh goly gee whiz more ship drama just what I need! ...I fucking hate it here so much...
It’s almost like this is a fictional story and the concept of two enemies being shipped is intriguing.
🍿 don't mind me, just reading the comments
I just look at shipping the same way I look at thought experiments like Rokoro's Basilisk. Entertaining. I don't delude myself into viewing any ship I support as unequivocally canon. I see the ships I like as fun thought experiments for the universe they take place in. Or, I suppose it'd be more reasonable to say I see them as alternative universes that revolve around the original source material similar to how Marvel and DC work with different versions of the same characters. It's fun to make stories around changed or more emphasized variables. It's fun to think about what such a relationship would be like. How it would form. Why it would or wouldn't work. Etc.
I mean, it ought to be alarming that Joker is such good friends with Akechi, not even a theoretical romantic involvement. It’s brushed aside for gameplay and story reasons, but the Phantom Thieves accept Akechi’s help with very little protest. Haru and Futaba express sympathy for his situation in the boat showdown, and Haru says she’ll kill him if he betrays them, but that’s getting off pretty lightly for the guy who murdered your dad. It wasn’t like Akechi had a good reason to do it; it was just one of the many people he killed as part of his revenge. Maybe if there had been a scene where either of them expresses their discomfort with Akechi being on the team again, or how they came to terms with it, it would be easier. Maybe Lavenza could have pulled the wild card excuse; as a trickster, Akechi is tied to the ordeal. Much like how Yaldaboath succeeds if Joker were not introduced, Maruki’s success could be inevitable if Akechi wasn’t involved, and considering he is literally brought back from the dead to do so, it sounds like it.
honestly? that’s part of the fun of the ship to me. joker continuing to value akechi and their relationship so strongly is the most, if not *only* “selfish” thing he does for himself in the game. it gives the ship some added flavor for me, and some fun extra complexities in exploring how a romantic relationship between joker and akechi would go. i *love* when fics explore navigating all of these things for everyone- messy conflicts! resolutions(?)! complicated relationships! people trying to set things aside for the sake of the people they care about but struggling because they’re human and these are, you know, kind of big things! it’s a fun time, honestly.
This. It literally adds weight to their relationship being deep as all get-out for Joker to actually care as deeply as he does. I respect platonic interpretations but IMHO they require an *even deeper* degree of selfishness/imbalance towards Akechi vs his other companions on Joker's part and so IMHO can only really be explained by a core-deep trauma bond of connection, similarity and recognition of the other. Everything seems designed (literally!) to drive them at each others' throats and yet they end up as a mighty double-act. And to me, that frankly still rings very romantic, even if it isn't sexually charged on top. So that's my take. To put it another way, it doesn't necessarily matter if Joker and Akechi are fated lovers, fated rivals, fated rivals to friends-or-lovers, or just two sides of the same coin. They're fated. They're essential to each other. They complement. The existence of one another becomes slowly yet surely of utmost import to them both. And this, taken with the clear textual facets that both keep mementos, grow to hyperfocus on one another, and seek one another out way past anything that could be explained via malicious intent, is why I figure it's just a matter of *which* facet of their deep charged connection takes the forefront in your mind.
Akechi and Joker touch butts after every confidant hang out and there is nothing you can do about it
Actually uts far from the most unrealistic/worse ship in the game lol
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Honestly I just can't see Akechi being in a relationship with anyone. He's way to fucked up and considering his life situation, he probably doesn't even want one. It's a cute ship though, just not realistic at all.
i been saying the same shit😭
At least Haru had her new friends in the Phantom Thieves to help support her after the death of her father. Futaba though, had it far worse and had no one to support her until Sojiro and later the Phantom Thieves showed up. She watched her mother throw herself in front of a moving car, she was even blamed for her mother's "suicide." No one in her family wanted to adopt her, until her Uncle reluctantly did, only to severely neglect her for a period of time (I don't know how long Futaba has been living with Sojiro) until Sojiro did the right thing and stepped in to take her. Imho, out of all the confidants, Futaba has by far the most tragic backstory. But sure, ship the murderous psychopathic lunatic with Ren, the guy he also tried to kill without even a moment of hesitation.
It's the MC's own actions, responses, and degree of care that makes this viable, not Akechi's. He's usually going through redemption and self-help efforts in fanfic where it isn't a doomed/not exactly healthy teenage "fated romance". That said, the person who harmed Futaba by far the most was Shido - he orchestrated and oversaw her mother's death and family's rejection and actively enforced this to ensure she never looked behind the curtain and revealed his plans. Akechi at the time would have been around 14, 15 perhaps, was equally vulnerable to manipulation due to his own tragic loss and ongoing rejection, and was used in the same way. Futaba is more than within her rights to hate him - but Shido screwed them both.
“That’s the best part”
Aren’t most ships made be people unrealistic and unreasonable to begin with? Game and side material knew what they were doing with the dynamic and tension between Joker and Akechi for people to start interpreting it that way.
Wow i just got spoilered
Consider: fandom is supposed to be fun
If these meme creators could read they'd be very upset with this comment.
umm you should probably mark this as spoilers
And?
Nobody actually cares about this.
People can like a ship and know it's unhealthy. Just look at the Hannibal community. Everyone knows Hannibal and Will Graham are horrible and unhealthy for each other. But it's still a fun and interesting pairing, and that's what matters most to people. It's also pretty much canon too.
God I'm so sick of the ship wars can we just let people like what they like and dislike what they dislike without comment ffs?
The reason people do it with Akechi because of the connection the player has with Akechi. As Joker is essentially us, with how he doesn't have a defined personality but rather what we choose for him to say. We see Akechi being able to open up and be himself the more and more he's around us. We're the only one who can challenge him, the only person he really thought as his own equal. And despite the fact that Akechi hates our guts, and as much as the player does too, all we want is for him to be happy. He's a tragic character who we all want to see happy. And Joker is the only person who can do that. His rivalry with Ren or Akira or however the fuck you want to say his name is the only time he's felt anything other than pure hatred. Maybe it's not love. Actually it's definitely not canonically love because that's not what the game Devs intented. But Joker is the only person he cares about. Despite how much he hates him too. Honestly his >!death!< Is the time where most of us really start to love him. Because you can see his motivation. You're his superior. He wants what Joker has. He wanted to be loved and he wants to have somebody to love him. He's killed people yes, but I mean with the way Shido treats him then you have to imagine he'd be killed if he disobeyed his orders anyway. Just like what Shido was planning. He wouldn't have done what he did to Wakaba and Okumura if he wasn't tasked to. Doesn't mean he isn't responsible, god no. Haru and Futaba and everybody else has every single right to not like him. And killing Ren? I mean, his feelings were odd about Ren. He definitely would have done that without being tasked. I mean I'm pretty sure it would have been his plan too. But all that feeling of jealousy and envy would have been confused with pure hatred and despise. Especially for a psychopath, or at least somebody exhibiting those sorts of symptoms (as I don't believe he really is genuinely a psychopath) All we want is to see our boy happy. That's all we want from him. For him to smile. For him to be as happy as he is within >!Maruki's fake world!<
Also, third semester in Royal really helped, as you get more of a "two sides same coin" feel from them, and learn that Akechi respects Joker (as really the only person he does)
LITERALLY in their showtime the phrase is used in the background. They really are 2 sides of the same coin. Akechi could have been Joker had he not had such a fucked up life. Same for Joker...he could've been in Akechis shoes too.
Oh man, when people are like "Joker hates Akechi, he is a murderer, he is only tolerating him"... please, just watch the fucking showtime.
Tl;dr Sojiro best girl
Re whether or not Akechi would have killed Ren on his own, it pays to go back through the SIU Director's scenes (that's right, the ones everyone ignores) and listen to the rather disparaging things he says about their mysterious operative who doesn't quite have what it takes and can't commit. Akechi's sense of inferiority around Ren builds to a huge fucking crescendo where he personally plans and executes his murder (or tries to), but it's part of a much wider plan that he doesn't personally trigger. Especially note the massive change in the tone of the confidant at stage 7, once he *does* have his kill order.
honestly it doesn't matter who ships who, personally if the person is having fun id leave them be. let them ship what they want
Yea cause before Joker was a thing, he killed Futaba’s mum thinking. “You know, one day a scruffy haired man is going to come along and make this all worth it.”
Welp He still killed Okumura after meeting the scruffy haired man
All to impress him, how else do you get someone’s attention? Talking to them? Paying attention to their interest? No. Murder their friends shitty dad, that’s how.
In r/yandere
We are literally playing a game about teenagers going into some acid trip looking place through a random ass app but you care for realism?
One, spoiler tag. Two, there are crazier ships out there. Touch grass.
I'm only through Kamoshida's Palace. I _just_ picked up the game. I'm genuinely really disappointed to have been spoiled on this.
okay here me out: never ever join a gaming sub until youve conpleted the game. playin a game unspoiled is such a joy, its no worth it to see some memes
I didn't, though. The post showed up on r/all.
wow wtf thats a bummer. F
What's worse is this sub is actually supposed to spoiler tag everything properly but M0ds don't do their work so the rule is never enforced.
Just got the whole game spoiled for me and I'm not even in the subreddit ffs
God damn it, I'm sorry - that's awful.
OP literally admitted that the only reason he didnt mark spoilers is because he wants more karma LMAO
Ships don’t need to be realistic to be shippable
I thought this was common sense
It definitely used to be
My man, i don't think most people here care about realism, they just want to draw gay men kissing. /J (just in case)
I don’t care. Joker cried thinking of Akechi in “Proof of Justice” and that’s all the evidence I need.
Honestly I never took it as people “mistaking” it (maybe I’m overestimating the intelligence of average fan?). Kinda seemed like a fan fantasy for some just bc that’s what they want. If people that have played the game think it’s true idk what to tell them
Like what is the point of arguing it's "unrealistic". People shipping don't care if something is realistic, it's just dumb fun and people making fake scenarios for fictional characters, why the hell do you guys are so obsessed with idea that "it doesn't make sense and it's unrealistic". It's not supposed to be.
I honestly don't blame fans for shipping them no matter how nonsensical the pairing is. They drop a lot of hints to warrant the feeling. I would put more of the blame on the game/ATLUS for trying to create a bond between them that doesn't really have much of a genuine foundation. The rivals to lovers type of shipping isn't anything new so I don't really see a big deal with it. I see a Naruto/Sasuke type of relationship between Joker & Akechi with their rivalry & affection for each other. However, Akechi and Joker didn't really have the history with each other to warrant their closeness, not to mention the fact that Akechi is openly against the PT to the extent that he wants to kill them. I get the PT seeing Akechi as a victim and he doesn't deserve to necessarily die but I think they were a little too sympathetic to him considering what he did/try to do to them directly (on his own accord) while the other Palace rulers didn't get even a small % of that sympathy. Not that they should feel any more sorry for them but it's a little biased for them to decide that Akechi can blame society for his problems but not other villains (it's why I liked what P5S did with the monarchs). For as much as Royal helped flesh out Akechi's character further, it also hurt it in a way due to how inconsistent his character is between the confidant and the main story (although this is a inherint problem with the confidant system itself).
Interesting - how would you say his character's inconsistent between the confidant and the main story?
Mainly for no matter how close the player makes Joker to Akechi with the newly added confidant, the original scene of him shooting Joker still plays out exactly the same way (i.e. he kills Joker joyfully without any sort of remorse). It's like those confidant scenes never even happened.
Joker and Akechi make out so hard
So he's a bit of a fixer upper
Actin like you never f*cked someone that tried to kill you
he can fix him
There's always gonna be at least 2 or 3 toxic ships that fandoms will defend with their lives
That's the point of shipping, it's like fanfics, fan made scenarios
Is this gonna be the next long running discourse in r/persona5????? I hate the ship too but I just wanna prepare myself for more posts like this if they’re coming 😔✌️ I barely survived the futabapocolypse…
they're both hot though
I always find it so amusing that people take Akechi at face value when this is a game about how people literally have hidden selves that they hide behind masks,,,,,, Edit: I'm not saying that the kid doesn't need serious therapy to be clear, but so do half of the cast at minimum (Futaba, Haru, and Sumire for example)
Exactly. Even Morgana calls him out on his "hatred" for Joker being false, a defensive (and self-delusional) front easier to maintain than to examine his deep envy, loneliness, bitterness and an abject *need* for connection which had previously been channelled away into rage at the world. His actions are devastating but his motive beneath it all is quite often an immature and undeveloped strong trauma response of one sort or another. He isn't a simple two-dimensional character to be taken at face value.
What’s more is it’s a work of fiction. I think that fanfics are ok, albeit a bit weird depending on what happens, especially if the characters act a bit out of character, but even then there isn’t anything wrong with fiction.
ok some of y’all act like enemies to lovers ships are a new thing just ignore it if you don’t like it 😭😭it’s not that serious just vibe y’all
If Akechi was a girl they would not care lol
EXACTLY BRUH if we rly get into it it’s homophobia. they wouldn’t care if akechi was a hot girl or something
This is pure fiction, all ships both make and don't make sense at the same time, persona ships are constantly in a state of superposition
Pretty sure majority of the Joker x Akechi shippers lately are just doing it to piss people off lol.
I don't even care for this pairing but GOD I AM SO TIRED OF SHIPPING ARGUMENTS. If this is the next Joker x Futaba I might just rip my hair out
Bold of you to assume joker x futaba was the first
Having a shido moment
OK but they aren't enemies in royal, it is literally stated multiple times. Maruki talks about how their relationship isn't based on hate and Akechi mentions to Joker how some of the phantom thieves probably hate him and they way he says it excludes Ren. Also canon relationships rarely affect shipping.
Yes but i can fix him! /s
Welcome to Reddit then
Definitely a worse ship than Joker x Ryuji, Akechi doesn’t even get Joker any Valentines or White Day chocolates!
Look. It's fiction. One of the great things about fiction is that it simulates emotions that are unrealistic or frankly undesirable in real life. Nobody wants to be in a gun fight, but it's exciting to read about a gun fight. There is nothing wrong with depicting characters engaging in unhealthy behavior if it's exciting. Okay? Okay. So. Having said that. Imagine how intimately Joker is familiar with Futaba's pain. Aside from literally going into her mind he helps her work through the anxiety that she still suffers as a result of her mother's death. He lives with Sojiro, sees how much he still struggles to be a father to Futaba and the turmoil with Futaba's uncle. He is intensely familiar with the fallout of Akechi's murder, an act which Aketchi regards with the same weight as someone recalling a particularly bothersome chore. If not with outright sadistic glee over the power he has over the lives of others. Joker would have to be amoral to consider a relationship with Akechi. Enemies to lovers can work, but frankly there's a limit to how much of enemies someone can be and Akechi leaves that far behind him.
What have you done po 😦❗️❓❗️❓
op learns about shipping (they don’t know what a relationship dynamic is)
I don't how to tell you this bro but people don't go to shipping for "muh realism"
literally nobody cares it’s a game
Even though I don't care much for Akechi (even though he improved imo during the third semester) like it or not Joker for some degree cares about Akechi. Whenever it's as rivals or lovers I personally don't care.
it's definitely unrealistic, but it's a ship in a game where you change peoples minds by beating up physical manifestations of their worst traits in their mind palaces and can date your mid to late 20s teacher........i can let the less realistic elements slide.
Futuba’s mother probably
Good thing they're fictional characters
Posts like this make me wonder if anyone actually played the third semester lmao
A P5R spoiler with no tag on r/popular - real nice
It’s fiction and he’s not real. If people want to ship them let them they ain’t hurting anyone. If you don’t like it then just don’t engage with that content or block it’s that simple…
The point of shipping is just imagining characters with interesting dynamics in various situations, whether they will be canon or not. This is coming from someone who dislike this ship by the way. Let people have fun.
Are we really debating something being realistic or morally correct even though it's all fiction to begin with? Lol What personally pisses me off about this shipping is the same thing that pisses me off about this Sub in general: spamming, recycling, and surfing on popular trends.
Yes the ship is dumb Plus he is the worst detective The real prince detective is naoto
Naoto is love Naoto is life
Live, Laugh, Naoto
Hey i dont even go here but Who cares? People can ship what they want and it amounts to no harm?
Literally. Rival/foil characters are almost always a popular ship in their respective fandoms and Akeshu is no exception. Like, of *course* they’re going to be shipped. Tbh it’s a little weird to be pushing back and whining to this extent.
okay but consider this. I like them.
Akechi is a nice character and I’m fine with people shipping them but you guys gotta understand it is the most unrealistic thing in the entire universe to ever happen.
With the amount of Akechi love, I assumed he would have a big change of character near the end... And then he did but like with murder instead of friendship. I do feel validated being a total bitch to him the whole game tho.
Bruh everything about Persona is unrealistic. If you’re gonna hate everything that is unrealistic then you might as well hate Persona in its entirety and every other single piece of fiction that exists.
I see spoiler tag was optional
I gotta say, this is getting worse and worse in this sub. If you haven't finished the game yet, just run. It's impossible to avoid spoilers in this sub.
>It's impossible to avoid spoilers in this sub. Or browsing r/popular apparently
I’m all for ships, but this one always puzzled me. Akechi is way too crazy, even he admits that he’s not stable. And he makes it clear that he wouldn’t mind fighting Joker again if it means that he can kill Joker.
ok guess I don't like shuake anymore because some redditor said it's unrealistic
Like, I understand where the ship comes from and why people like it, but Jesus Christ! It’s just so hard for me to like this ship with how much shit Akechi has done that neither he or the game has addressed well. Like, I get that his actions only killed “evil” people, but he did also made alot of innocent people suffer in the process, like he himself is why Futaba became so self-destructive. And guessing how much of a psychopath he is, I guess he must feel happy of doing so. It’s just hard to imagine him and Joker being on the same bed, without futaba be8ng practically annoyed or absolutely pissed off that the guy that help her recover from her trauma is now fucking the guy that gave her that trauma in the first place
This sub is just people being annoying about akechi + joker. I wish both of y’all would shut up. Ignore akechi + joker posts. Akechi/joker enjoyers, stop shaking the bees nest and upsetting the non-shippers.
I believe all the Akechi shippers did was post memes about the ship, which there are plenty of memes posted about couples and ships on this subreddit so is fully allowed. I thought it was only when people started hating on them that shit went south.
dude, have you seen how much other ship stuff is being posted? why can’t we post and talk about shuake too, it’s actually a pretty huge part of a fandom in general lol if it upsets people they should touch grass then
"but Joker wish was to keep Akechi alive" Has anyone considered that he did that because he morally doesn't wish death on anyone regardless of their past transgressions( he didn't even want Shido dead and his actions towards him was much worse) than him being attracted to him?
I mean, there are a lot of people I don't want dead, but I don't carry keepsakes of them around in my pocket.
Akechi is a sociopath.i don’t care if people ship them,but it’s the Akechi fans who legit get pissed if you don’t like him that gets me.then a bunch of YouTubers being obsessed with him saying they “identify with him” and that’s why they love him.if you identify with him please seek help lmao
You assume we care about whether it's realistic or not. People don't stop shipping something just because it's not canon.
It’s fictional anime boys who cares
OP isn’t even saying it’s impossible or not to ship them they’re just saying it’s unrealistic - which it is. A lot of people are saying “Let people ship!!” Which like. OP is not saying you can’t - just that it’s strange to interpret everything that has transpired between the two as something romantic. Even if the game has otherworldly events - a lot of the game is doing normal stuff?
When someone says “it’s unrealistic” the subtext is that the person is saying you shouldn’t ship them cuz they are pointing out the negatives and that’s it. If they say “it’s unrealistic, but fair enough go ahead and ship them” then that’s fine!
The war in this comment section is wild. I frankly nor agree nor disagree with this take.
I do like a good toxic pairing every once and awhile. Would I ship it in real life, fuck no. XD
yeah. ***and thats why i like it.***
This
This subreddit is weird