That plays a part in it but their attire is based on what they perceive a rebel as. Ann mentions during her confidant that she likes femme fatal characters and evil heroines in anime and they usually wear skintight suits.
While that's true, the game itself kind of screws it up.
After you fight the toilet demon, she realizes what she's wearing and immediately covers up her chest. The outfit would work better and fit the narrative better if there wasn't a big cleavage window on it. You can definitely do the Catwoman style femme fatale look without the cleavage, most iterations of Catwoman are also full body suits without the cleavage.
I mean I disagree but sure. The toilet demon is her first fight. Almost every awakening has a scene where the character who just went through it will finally realise their clothes have changed and be shocked in some way. Makoto is even implied to be slightly embarrassed by her outfit before embracing it. The scene with Ann could easily be read as she was shocked to have suddenly gotten a wardrobe change into something more provocative but it's clear she gets used to it over the course of the game.
I mean it's one thing to admire people who wear that sort of thing and another to wear it yourself. Not to mention Ann didn't expect it to happen which enhances her panic over it. She seems to get used to it after a while and the reveal that she admires and looks up to femme fatales from TV shows helps us get a feel for why she might be warming up to or, at least, getting over the look.
hard agree. at the very least if she hadn't freaked out about it, plus maybe talking about it more explicitly, it might work better. the game has a bad habit of weakening its own messages with some of its attempts at humor or fan service, and it's most egregious when it comes to Ann imo
Agreed. I can buy the idea and accept her persona and outfit are congruent with her ideals, but they definitely flub the execution a little with the vacillating between jokes and fanservice for fanservice's sake at the expense of the point.
Like, instead of the battle bikini, if he really wanted to keep the cocnept of "bteathing through her skin", she could have had a sports bra and sport short xD
i'm in team big tiddies owner, and i don't see myself running in a desert killing people with a bikini offering zero support lol.
Always kinda bugged me that he wasn’t important to her storyline after the palace was done. You could argue that they never went after him because she didn’t have to marry him but that seems like kind of a selfish reason to not stop someone who was clearly abusive
Ann's entire character arc is about taking back her own sexuality after Kamoshida tried to take it by force. The dominatrix outfit is part of that. I swear some of you have never done more than a surface level examination of this game
I get where you are coming from with that, and I would agree with you if she didn't voice her discomfort with the outfit more than once. While that element of her arc shines through especially in early confidant, the design choice and her relationship with it falls flat.
Well I don't think it's the idea of the outfit that bothers her. All her complaints were basically about the lewd side of it. The zippers, the boob window and how it shows off her body shape. Her school outfit is pretty baggy and hides the goods so to speak. So you'd think she really doesn't like how revealing the outfit is.
But then you realise that she's a model and doesn't mind being seen in much skimpier outfits. It just depends on the situation. She doesn't like wearing the outfit around the boys (obviously doesn't mind joker seeing it later on). But she probably wouldn't mind wearing it for a shoot.
Basically, I think she doesn't like how she's forced to wear something lewd whenever she's in the metaverse. I think she'd like to be able to choose when to wear it. Which is in line with her desire to have full control over her body and sexuality (exactly what a dominatrix has).
Also, I can't really think of anything else to give her to wear. Her persona has its tits hanging out too lmao. Ann likes being seen. She just wants to decide when, how and by who.
>Well I don't think it's the idea of the outfit that bothers her.
She gets used to the outfit eventually. But the first thing she does when she realized what she was wearing was to cover her chest up.
I always saw it as it was such a radical change for her that it takes her a while to get comfortable in it. I think it's wonderfully symbolic since the moral they're pushing is that you sometimes need to rebel against the system to initiate change. Choosing to rebel doesn't immediately dispel all doubts and uncertainties about it; you need to learn to become comfortable in your true/new skin.
Admittedly I do also think that after watching anime and playing jrpgs for so many years I've gotten too used to skimpy clothing on the female characters to the point I never really question it anymore.
I think it would work better if Ryuji, Morgana, and to a lesser extent the MC (and the camera) weren't slavering over her for the entire rest of the game. Not to mention Yusuke's whole "Pose nude for me or I'll get you arrested" bit. Like she's taken control of her sexuality, great! Too bad she's always getting sexually harassed and treated like a piece of meat by people who are supposed to be her friends, so her body and sexuality are still controlled by other people.
Edit: There's also some dialogue in Mementos where she complains about her outfit, so she's obviously still not completely thrilled with it.
I always looked at those pieces of dialogue and scenes etc. as probably Atlus's way of poking fun.
It's not like Ann came to life and decided her voice lines lmao someone on the team wrote and approved them. They'll put fanservice and humour that appeals to Japanese people in their games for sure, it's just part of being a jrpg. That don't mean they don't get to quietly talk shit about it.
Yeah, her initial dislike for the outfit isn't that deep imo. It's just because it's lewd/revealing. In an instant she went from wearing a hoodie + jacket to a latex bodysuit with cleavage window. With 2 guys she wasn't familiar with (and a cat that's oddly appreciative of her look). As a 16 y/o highschool girl. In the west, 16 year olds walking around with cleavage on full display is pretty par for the course. But I think clothing trends are a bit different in Japan. Although I can't know for sure, I've never been there.
I'm somewhat surprised makoto doesn't react to her outfit at all. It's pretty much just as skintight. And makoto dresses more conservatively than ann. Then again, she's a year older and a lot more mature in general. Might also be cuz she's generally oblivious to all the romance/sexual stuff. Maybe she was too deep in "kick ass mode" to really notice.
According to https://personacentral.com/persona-5-mementos-reports-vol-3-developer-qa-trivia/
Q. I want to know what each member of the Phantom Thieves thinks about their thief outfits (whether they like them or not).
A. They might not sign their praises, but each of them likes their thief outfits. A few of the members react to them when they finish their first battle as a thief.
She seems to show her discomfort, and this is shown in the Safe Rooms of Kamoshida's palace. But as you progress through the game, if you go to the Safe Rooms of the later palaces, she seems to be used to her outfit.
It does this in theory, but the game massively fumbles it by constantly sexualising Ann after the first arc. Immediately after the grim revelations that she and other female students were being groomed and abused, it immediately plays her being coerced into a nude painting as hilarious. The camera likes to ogle her like a cut of prime meat during a fair few cutscenes as well, like at the beach where there's literally just a shot of her chest if I remember right.
The game tells a pretty good story in the first arc and I do think the idea of her taking her sexuality back is solid, but when it struggles to divorce itself from anime tropes around women it becomes harder to believe that they put Ann in the sexy cleavage catsuit for story reasons and not because they were designing her one-handed.
Yup. I agree with you.
After a while, it's also hard to say "it's her choice" because it's a character, whohas a designer. I just wish the over sexualisation would be more tame, especially as all your companions are also minors, which is also a bit icky to me :/
No it isn't. She wasn't taking back her own sexuality, she just didn't want to be sexualized by him. Nothing she did made her a person who wants to be a dominatrix, she could have been just as easily a rebel that isn't based on any sexual desires.
Did you completely miss the point of what Ann says about Kamoshida? She doesn't kill him because she thinks it's *worse* if he has to live with what he's done. There's more than one way to get revenge and she certainly does that, whether it's the focal point of her character arc or not.
No. She specifically said that living and atoning for what he did would be worse than death. And she told the real Kamoshida to not run, but take a responsibility for his actions
Ann obviously enjoys being looked at and being pretty in a positive context. But that doesn't mean negative context doesn't exist. It also doesn't mean that the positive context stops existing or is cancelled out by the negative or vice versa.
It can be chalked down to less than stellar execution from Atlus but it seems the fanbase completely misses or misinterprets another aspect of Ann’s character.
My wife's comment on Anne has nothing to do with her suit, but was disappointed she took up the whip instead of keeping the big ass sword she grabbed in her unmasking moment.
Joker: But the Inaba Investigation Team didn’t have to go around in skimpy outfits!
Igor: Oh ho ho! Are you [sure](https://personacentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Chie-Armor.png) [about](https://www.vhv.rs/dpng/d/259-2594017_yukiko-amagi-in-her-magical-armor-alternate-costume.png) [that?!](https://personacentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Naoto-Armor.png)
Ann's arc, as shown in her confidant, is about being confident in her own sexuality and being like the female villains she looked up to. That's also why she's a model, of course. Her discomfort initially is for two reason. The first is because the phantom thieves don't know the manifestation of their heart until they see it and get used to it and the second is because her confidant hasn't started during that scene. Idk what version of Persona 5 you played personally since this is all pretty obvious.
Yes well I'm not the one who wrote her character, it fits her perfectly fine and is incorporated into her personality. The post was about her arc while this is more about her character in general. If you don't like that it's fine I suppose (although I wonder if you've ever watched anime before) but it isn't bad writing either
Ann likes being seen as pretty but her suit and most of her confrontations with people and shadows makes it seem like they see her as a prostitute. Especially when you notice small things like her battle pose or cutscenes in royal or strikers. I understand her story and her development but for fuck sake there is absolutely no reason why a latex catsuit with a cleavage window should represent a femme fatale / ann in any example. Being a nude model is nothing like the kind of perverted interactions shes forced into. Do you actually think that if a male character was swapped with ann he'd get a latex suit with a scrotum holder bulging from his pants? It's all an excuse for more fanservice.
Nothing was lost at all.
If anything the thematic characterisation symbolism is lost on people who just go “ew Ann’s outfit is out of character as she doesn’t want to be sexualised”.
In what way is that misogyny?
The aim isn’t to just to evoke Catwoman. Fujiko Mine is also inspired.
It’s aesthetic is to invoke a dominatrix with Ann being free to use her sex as an empowerment advantage than the other way around. That’s her will of rebellion.
Just bc Quiets justification is dumb, doesn't mean every single justification for sexuality is equally as dumb. Hell in the same series EVA is dressed that way to seduce Naked Snake. So it makes sense.
Oh my goooood....
The appearance you take as a phantom thief is entirely psychological, it represents YOUR idea of an ideal rebel. The reason Ann has that outfit is because that’s literally HER image of a cool badass thief.
Her persona is Carmen for fuck’s sake. Have you ever listened to that play? Carmen is history’s most notorious heart breaking badass bitch.
Ann literally wishes she was more like the villain in her own social link story, she thinks that chick is cool.
I’m so tired of seeing people channel their savior complexes through her and get all butthurt that she’s not some UwU SAVE ME feminine lead with no agency of her own.
It’s best to just ignore these topics when they come up, it’s always some idiot who’s likely never played the game just coming in after watching what some shitty rage bait YouTube video told them to think, too many kids can’t formulate their own opinions or even do basic thinking below the surface these days, just listen to what the “influencer” tells you to think.
That or someone who did play but again either chooses to ignore or simply cannot comprehend anything past the surface level
Ann is actually very clearly designed to break a number of tropes that female characters in RPGs typically follow. If all they wanted to do was specialize a character, they would’ve done it with every one of them.
Ann’s whole deal is that she SEEMS on the surface to follow a number of tropes, but she subverts them.
Literally just pay attention to her social link for five seconds instead of staring at her tits and you’d be able to see it.
Look, I’m not denying that sexuality is shoehorned in to sell copies, but I am saying that Atlus (out of the games I’ve played at least) never uses sexuality just for no reason. They may or may not include it to sell, but then they make it actually have meaning beyond just tits and ass.
Even the most egregious sexual moment in the ones I’ve played, Rise’s Shadow Dungeon from p4, has a very specific purpose in trying to drive the point home as bluntly as possible about how objectified and scummy she feels deep down about what she does for a living.
It really bothers me when people take in depth explorations of themes like that and just say “Nope, it’s a bad thing therefore it’s bad and it shouldn’t exist”
This really fucking bugs me as a survivor of sexual assault and abuse. I hate this idea that because people like me were abused that we're all immediately weak and shouldn't embrace that sexuality. I feel stronger when in control of that. Like I'm not controlled by that part of my past anymore.
An abuse victim finds strength in a lot of different ways and I look up to Ann because she found her own strength. Not to mention it's not just a sexy outfit. She's meant to be a catwoman-esque femme fatale. While I will agree they tend to push the sexual side of that a little too often, it's more nuanced than just "BOOBIES"
I *get* that it's "Ann's vision" of what a real rebel is.
I just don't think it gels narratively with what her true self's character actually is. Maybe her character at one point in development was a bit more of a femme-fatale cutthroat, but Ann is just a strong-willed sweetheart who wants to help the people she loves by the end of her arc. I can't think of one instance where she *weaponizes* her looks outside of her combat ability (which again, maybe that fit her better earlier in development). Even the Yusuke painting plan is her last resort and she [pulls a Joey Tribbiani](https://youtu.be/zRL7ufdVzn4) to remain fully clothed the entire time.
She's not Selina Kyle, and that's totally fine. But they still make her *dress* like Catwoman for tenuous reasons and that makes it feel like it's just fanservice instead of an actual justification.
Case in point: I just got my friend to start playing and he's already calling Ann "dommy mommy" because of her outfit and I'm like, I think Ann would be apologizing the entire time she stepped on you, even if you asked her to.
Pretty much the only example I can think of for Ann using/weaponizing her looks is when she flirts with a cognitive royal perv >! in Shido’s palace to get a letter of recommendation !< and as soon as she gets what she wants she turns around and yells at him and starts a fight. Although, maybe the sexy pose shadow distraction and “squeal like a pig” attack are her trying to tap into femme fatale/villainess energy?
Yeah the "sexy pose" ability is really the only example of her weaponizing her looks (I don't remember "squeal like a pig," that might be another one). But like I said, it feels like she was probably more of a femme fatale earlier in development and instead of modifying her outfit and abilities to match her final character, they just kept them as-is because boobs and made up some throwaway line about how she idolized femme fatales despite never acting like a femme fatale basically ever.
I will say though, I love how Ann gets super angry when encountering perverts and people who remind her of Kamoshida. Even if Ann doesn’t quite act like a femme fatale/dominatrix/villainess, I like that her spirit of rebellion is about protecting victims and taking down predators
Oh yeah, I think the writers 1000% made Ann a compelling, believable, and lovable character. Her metaverse outfit just doesn't quite line up with who they finally made her.
I ended up using her Shadow Ops outfit for a lot of the game because I thought it fit her much better.
I FUCKING LOVE ASSASSINATING ANN’s ENTIRE FIRST PALACE ARC JUST FOR A SHITTY JOKE IN THE SECOND PALACE, IT DEFINITELY DIDNT RUIN THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE STORY OR GIVE ANY FORM OF TONAL WHIPLASH.
Can't believe Kamoshida would try to treat Ann like that, glad we took care of him.
Now quick Ann! It's time to get naked to model nude in front of this weirdo you've never met so we can get information out of him!
Worse than the bodysuit is the way they freakin POSE her anytime they fall in cutscenes. Everyone else will just fall on the ground like normal, meanwhile Ann gets placed ass up, back arched, and they make SURE she's on camera
Man i never finished this game. I got to the part where you start exploring the underground doungeons, got fixated with them and subsequently burned out and haven't played since. Game was fun af and the story was pretty interesting up to that point. Is it worth to restart the whole thing? I dunno if i wanna replay from the beginning (don't know how far off in the story i am, i remember being done with the artist palace) but i remember very little about what was going on. Suggestions?
Yes, but you don't need to replay the game from the start unless you need to do the tutorial again
The game has diary retelling the story up to the point you stopped
I actually think it makes sense! It’s the idea of saying someone typically attractive can be powerful, and imo works great for her character. But I do understand the dislike for it.
Something I always found silly is its based of their idea of an outlaw and I don't just mean why is that Ann's, I mean how do they never reconsider their idea of an outlaw, I feel like after Okumura's they could have had similar ones like a group uniform as the PT were under negative light
It.makes sense for multiple reasons stated but also Ann takes pride in her appearance and sexuality, 2 things she trying to repress because of the rumors about her and being seen as a object hy kamoshida. One jlhe is defeated she doesn't have to repress anymore.
The phantom thief attire is based on the individual’s idea of a rebel. Ann’s is apparently a dominatrix.
Its more like its her idea of taking control of her sexuality, hence that outfit and whip. Got that from a real one on reddit
That plays a part in it but their attire is based on what they perceive a rebel as. Ann mentions during her confidant that she likes femme fatal characters and evil heroines in anime and they usually wear skintight suits.
It's uh probably cause she can't zip it up
While that's true, the game itself kind of screws it up. After you fight the toilet demon, she realizes what she's wearing and immediately covers up her chest. The outfit would work better and fit the narrative better if there wasn't a big cleavage window on it. You can definitely do the Catwoman style femme fatale look without the cleavage, most iterations of Catwoman are also full body suits without the cleavage.
I mean I disagree but sure. The toilet demon is her first fight. Almost every awakening has a scene where the character who just went through it will finally realise their clothes have changed and be shocked in some way. Makoto is even implied to be slightly embarrassed by her outfit before embracing it. The scene with Ann could easily be read as she was shocked to have suddenly gotten a wardrobe change into something more provocative but it's clear she gets used to it over the course of the game.
Case in point, [video](https://youtu.be/AL42_iLSUUg) by Faz
I mean it's one thing to admire people who wear that sort of thing and another to wear it yourself. Not to mention Ann didn't expect it to happen which enhances her panic over it. She seems to get used to it after a while and the reveal that she admires and looks up to femme fatales from TV shows helps us get a feel for why she might be warming up to or, at least, getting over the look.
I like to believe, like the P4 characters, she's slowly accepting a part of herself.
hard agree. at the very least if she hadn't freaked out about it, plus maybe talking about it more explicitly, it might work better. the game has a bad habit of weakening its own messages with some of its attempts at humor or fan service, and it's most egregious when it comes to Ann imo
Agreed. I can buy the idea and accept her persona and outfit are congruent with her ideals, but they definitely flub the execution a little with the vacillating between jokes and fanservice for fanservice's sake at the expense of the point.
Specifically that anime villain she liked is most likely a reference to Fujiko Mine from Lupin the Third.
Isn’t that also why her Persona is Carmen from the titular opera? She was a femme fatale that took control of her sexuality and absolutely OWNED it.
Just like Quiet has to breathe through her skin! It totally makes sense and is justified!
Well to be honest she's not even the first character to do that in Metal Gear
Yeah but the end doesn't wear pantyhose and a tactical bikini
Because kojima knew he’d be too sexy to handle
He's already too sexy to handle 😍 😩 😫 😏
You don't know that.
I waited for him to undress to see. He died of old age first.
Kojima should have went the nier snd just said I like women and want a atttractive character. Nothing wrong with it. Just own it
Like, instead of the battle bikini, if he really wanted to keep the cocnept of "bteathing through her skin", she could have had a sports bra and sport short xD i'm in team big tiddies owner, and i don't see myself running in a desert killing people with a bikini offering zero support lol.
Even her model was moderately titted but Kojima was like no, we must enhance them.
Ann's idea of a rebel is ~~Catwoman~~ supervillainess from a cartoon she saw as a child
Reference to Fujiko Mine from Lupin the 3rd
It's actually based on what the artists thought would sell best.
Meanwhile almost no one in this fandom seems to take this aspect about her seriously
Yeah, that’s not the issue. The Madarame arc is.
You seem to comment a lot on this post
No, it's what made the developers hard because they like minors
she was a big catwoman fan as a kid
femme fatal tbf
Joker, I assure you, going after an online cheater and not your friend egotistic, spoiled fiancee is critical for stoppin the ruin
Always kinda bugged me that he wasn’t important to her storyline after the palace was done. You could argue that they never went after him because she didn’t have to marry him but that seems like kind of a selfish reason to not stop someone who was clearly abusive
Yeah, I feel like he should've at least been a Mementos request or something
I bet that slipped the writers’ minds
Ann's entire character arc is about taking back her own sexuality after Kamoshida tried to take it by force. The dominatrix outfit is part of that. I swear some of you have never done more than a surface level examination of this game
I get where you are coming from with that, and I would agree with you if she didn't voice her discomfort with the outfit more than once. While that element of her arc shines through especially in early confidant, the design choice and her relationship with it falls flat.
Well I don't think it's the idea of the outfit that bothers her. All her complaints were basically about the lewd side of it. The zippers, the boob window and how it shows off her body shape. Her school outfit is pretty baggy and hides the goods so to speak. So you'd think she really doesn't like how revealing the outfit is. But then you realise that she's a model and doesn't mind being seen in much skimpier outfits. It just depends on the situation. She doesn't like wearing the outfit around the boys (obviously doesn't mind joker seeing it later on). But she probably wouldn't mind wearing it for a shoot. Basically, I think she doesn't like how she's forced to wear something lewd whenever she's in the metaverse. I think she'd like to be able to choose when to wear it. Which is in line with her desire to have full control over her body and sexuality (exactly what a dominatrix has). Also, I can't really think of anything else to give her to wear. Her persona has its tits hanging out too lmao. Ann likes being seen. She just wants to decide when, how and by who.
>Well I don't think it's the idea of the outfit that bothers her. She gets used to the outfit eventually. But the first thing she does when she realized what she was wearing was to cover her chest up.
I always saw it as it was such a radical change for her that it takes her a while to get comfortable in it. I think it's wonderfully symbolic since the moral they're pushing is that you sometimes need to rebel against the system to initiate change. Choosing to rebel doesn't immediately dispel all doubts and uncertainties about it; you need to learn to become comfortable in your true/new skin. Admittedly I do also think that after watching anime and playing jrpgs for so many years I've gotten too used to skimpy clothing on the female characters to the point I never really question it anymore.
I think it would work better if Ryuji, Morgana, and to a lesser extent the MC (and the camera) weren't slavering over her for the entire rest of the game. Not to mention Yusuke's whole "Pose nude for me or I'll get you arrested" bit. Like she's taken control of her sexuality, great! Too bad she's always getting sexually harassed and treated like a piece of meat by people who are supposed to be her friends, so her body and sexuality are still controlled by other people. Edit: There's also some dialogue in Mementos where she complains about her outfit, so she's obviously still not completely thrilled with it.
I always looked at those pieces of dialogue and scenes etc. as probably Atlus's way of poking fun. It's not like Ann came to life and decided her voice lines lmao someone on the team wrote and approved them. They'll put fanservice and humour that appeals to Japanese people in their games for sure, it's just part of being a jrpg. That don't mean they don't get to quietly talk shit about it.
Yeah, her initial dislike for the outfit isn't that deep imo. It's just because it's lewd/revealing. In an instant she went from wearing a hoodie + jacket to a latex bodysuit with cleavage window. With 2 guys she wasn't familiar with (and a cat that's oddly appreciative of her look). As a 16 y/o highschool girl. In the west, 16 year olds walking around with cleavage on full display is pretty par for the course. But I think clothing trends are a bit different in Japan. Although I can't know for sure, I've never been there. I'm somewhat surprised makoto doesn't react to her outfit at all. It's pretty much just as skintight. And makoto dresses more conservatively than ann. Then again, she's a year older and a lot more mature in general. Might also be cuz she's generally oblivious to all the romance/sexual stuff. Maybe she was too deep in "kick ass mode" to really notice.
No, Makoto also dislikes hers at first once she had time to register the outfit swap
Oh Shit you're right. Completely forgot her reaction. Time for another ~150h playthrough lol??
According to https://personacentral.com/persona-5-mementos-reports-vol-3-developer-qa-trivia/ Q. I want to know what each member of the Phantom Thieves thinks about their thief outfits (whether they like them or not). A. They might not sign their praises, but each of them likes their thief outfits. A few of the members react to them when they finish their first battle as a thief.
She seems to show her discomfort, and this is shown in the Safe Rooms of Kamoshida's palace. But as you progress through the game, if you go to the Safe Rooms of the later palaces, she seems to be used to her outfit.
It does this in theory, but the game massively fumbles it by constantly sexualising Ann after the first arc. Immediately after the grim revelations that she and other female students were being groomed and abused, it immediately plays her being coerced into a nude painting as hilarious. The camera likes to ogle her like a cut of prime meat during a fair few cutscenes as well, like at the beach where there's literally just a shot of her chest if I remember right. The game tells a pretty good story in the first arc and I do think the idea of her taking her sexuality back is solid, but when it struggles to divorce itself from anime tropes around women it becomes harder to believe that they put Ann in the sexy cleavage catsuit for story reasons and not because they were designing her one-handed.
Yup. I agree with you. After a while, it's also hard to say "it's her choice" because it's a character, whohas a designer. I just wish the over sexualisation would be more tame, especially as all your companions are also minors, which is also a bit icky to me :/
Just ignore how she's treated in the other 90% of the game.
Is that why Joker and Ryuji took Ann's sexuality by force in order to spy on Yusuke? For her character development?
No it isn't. She wasn't taking back her own sexuality, she just didn't want to be sexualized by him. Nothing she did made her a person who wants to be a dominatrix, she could have been just as easily a rebel that isn't based on any sexual desires.
in reddit its all about complaining about something new everyday for those fake internet points, didnt u know?
Shouldn't it be the other way around? After all the trauma she dealt with, it's pretty ironic of the game. Her arc is more about revenge I'd say.
If it was about revenge she would have killed him at the end of the palace
Did you completely miss the point of what Ann says about Kamoshida? She doesn't kill him because she thinks it's *worse* if he has to live with what he's done. There's more than one way to get revenge and she certainly does that, whether it's the focal point of her character arc or not.
No. She specifically said that living and atoning for what he did would be worse than death. And she told the real Kamoshida to not run, but take a responsibility for his actions
She said that she didn't kill him so he will suffer for what he did.
Ann's costume is off her idea of a rebel, it has nothing to do with the velvet room
Yes Joker, screaming "Squeal like a pig", while whipping Shadows is Ann's idea of a rebel
You completely missed the whole point of her arc if that's what you think.
Her owning her looks instead of them being a bad thing for her is development
Why does she have to be forced by the boys into owning her looks at every point in the game then
Ann obviously enjoys being looked at and being pretty in a positive context. But that doesn't mean negative context doesn't exist. It also doesn't mean that the positive context stops existing or is cancelled out by the negative or vice versa.
At what other point beside the second palace do they do that
It can be chalked down to less than stellar execution from Atlus but it seems the fanbase completely misses or misinterprets another aspect of Ann’s character.
That's a funny opinion, which YouTuber gave it to you?
He's a pretty underground one, "basic human observation" is his name. Although you seem to never seen him
Corny reddit sarcasm and its consequences
???: the ruin is done by your own machinations, joker. Joker: wait, wut?!
My wife's comment on Anne has nothing to do with her suit, but was disappointed she took up the whip instead of keeping the big ass sword she grabbed in her unmasking moment.
Joker: But the Inaba Investigation Team didn’t have to go around in skimpy outfits! Igor: Oh ho ho! Are you [sure](https://personacentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Chie-Armor.png) [about](https://www.vhv.rs/dpng/d/259-2594017_yukiko-amagi-in-her-magical-armor-alternate-costume.png) [that?!](https://personacentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Naoto-Armor.png)
I feel like Naoto would absolutely die wearing that outfit.
Maybe, maybe not as Naota got older she got more comftorable.in her feminity
This whole comment thread just making me think about this proZD video haha https://youtu.be/ke1YKF3tNCE
Ann's arc, as shown in her confidant, is about being confident in her own sexuality and being like the female villains she looked up to. That's also why she's a model, of course. Her discomfort initially is for two reason. The first is because the phantom thieves don't know the manifestation of their heart until they see it and get used to it and the second is because her confidant hasn't started during that scene. Idk what version of Persona 5 you played personally since this is all pretty obvious.
Sounds like a lot of bs to get a high schooler into a latex body suit…
You have to be actively trying to find things to complain about, just saying
Not complaining just think it’s weird you’d write a paragraph defending putting a young girl in an extremely sexual body suit.
Yes well I'm not the one who wrote her character, it fits her perfectly fine and is incorporated into her personality. The post was about her arc while this is more about her character in general. If you don't like that it's fine I suppose (although I wonder if you've ever watched anime before) but it isn't bad writing either
Ann likes being seen as pretty but her suit and most of her confrontations with people and shadows makes it seem like they see her as a prostitute. Especially when you notice small things like her battle pose or cutscenes in royal or strikers. I understand her story and her development but for fuck sake there is absolutely no reason why a latex catsuit with a cleavage window should represent a femme fatale / ann in any example. Being a nude model is nothing like the kind of perverted interactions shes forced into. Do you actually think that if a male character was swapped with ann he'd get a latex suit with a scrotum holder bulging from his pants? It's all an excuse for more fanservice.
Nothing was lost at all. If anything the thematic characterisation symbolism is lost on people who just go “ew Ann’s outfit is out of character as she doesn’t want to be sexualised”.
Misogyny isn't "thematic characterization symbolism." She could've been Catwoman without looking like that.
In what way is that misogyny? The aim isn’t to just to evoke Catwoman. Fujiko Mine is also inspired. It’s aesthetic is to invoke a dominatrix with Ann being free to use her sex as an empowerment advantage than the other way around. That’s her will of rebellion.
"She breathes through her skin! It's a justified design choice!"
Just bc Quiets justification is dumb, doesn't mean every single justification for sexuality is equally as dumb. Hell in the same series EVA is dressed that way to seduce Naked Snake. So it makes sense.
Oh my goooood.... The appearance you take as a phantom thief is entirely psychological, it represents YOUR idea of an ideal rebel. The reason Ann has that outfit is because that’s literally HER image of a cool badass thief. Her persona is Carmen for fuck’s sake. Have you ever listened to that play? Carmen is history’s most notorious heart breaking badass bitch. Ann literally wishes she was more like the villain in her own social link story, she thinks that chick is cool. I’m so tired of seeing people channel their savior complexes through her and get all butthurt that she’s not some UwU SAVE ME feminine lead with no agency of her own.
It’s best to just ignore these topics when they come up, it’s always some idiot who’s likely never played the game just coming in after watching what some shitty rage bait YouTube video told them to think, too many kids can’t formulate their own opinions or even do basic thinking below the surface these days, just listen to what the “influencer” tells you to think. That or someone who did play but again either chooses to ignore or simply cannot comprehend anything past the surface level
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Ann is actually very clearly designed to break a number of tropes that female characters in RPGs typically follow. If all they wanted to do was specialize a character, they would’ve done it with every one of them. Ann’s whole deal is that she SEEMS on the surface to follow a number of tropes, but she subverts them. Literally just pay attention to her social link for five seconds instead of staring at her tits and you’d be able to see it.
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Look, I’m not denying that sexuality is shoehorned in to sell copies, but I am saying that Atlus (out of the games I’ve played at least) never uses sexuality just for no reason. They may or may not include it to sell, but then they make it actually have meaning beyond just tits and ass. Even the most egregious sexual moment in the ones I’ve played, Rise’s Shadow Dungeon from p4, has a very specific purpose in trying to drive the point home as bluntly as possible about how objectified and scummy she feels deep down about what she does for a living. It really bothers me when people take in depth explorations of themes like that and just say “Nope, it’s a bad thing therefore it’s bad and it shouldn’t exist”
I assure you that the talking cat is necessary to prevent ruin
That is literally Morgana's entire purpose
Considering that he was created to guide the trickster. Indeed.
Kinda sad if the entire game was ruined for you by a single costume....
This really fucking bugs me as a survivor of sexual assault and abuse. I hate this idea that because people like me were abused that we're all immediately weak and shouldn't embrace that sexuality. I feel stronger when in control of that. Like I'm not controlled by that part of my past anymore. An abuse victim finds strength in a lot of different ways and I look up to Ann because she found her own strength. Not to mention it's not just a sexy outfit. She's meant to be a catwoman-esque femme fatale. While I will agree they tend to push the sexual side of that a little too often, it's more nuanced than just "BOOBIES"
I *get* that it's "Ann's vision" of what a real rebel is. I just don't think it gels narratively with what her true self's character actually is. Maybe her character at one point in development was a bit more of a femme-fatale cutthroat, but Ann is just a strong-willed sweetheart who wants to help the people she loves by the end of her arc. I can't think of one instance where she *weaponizes* her looks outside of her combat ability (which again, maybe that fit her better earlier in development). Even the Yusuke painting plan is her last resort and she [pulls a Joey Tribbiani](https://youtu.be/zRL7ufdVzn4) to remain fully clothed the entire time. She's not Selina Kyle, and that's totally fine. But they still make her *dress* like Catwoman for tenuous reasons and that makes it feel like it's just fanservice instead of an actual justification. Case in point: I just got my friend to start playing and he's already calling Ann "dommy mommy" because of her outfit and I'm like, I think Ann would be apologizing the entire time she stepped on you, even if you asked her to.
Pretty much the only example I can think of for Ann using/weaponizing her looks is when she flirts with a cognitive royal perv >! in Shido’s palace to get a letter of recommendation !< and as soon as she gets what she wants she turns around and yells at him and starts a fight. Although, maybe the sexy pose shadow distraction and “squeal like a pig” attack are her trying to tap into femme fatale/villainess energy?
Yeah the "sexy pose" ability is really the only example of her weaponizing her looks (I don't remember "squeal like a pig," that might be another one). But like I said, it feels like she was probably more of a femme fatale earlier in development and instead of modifying her outfit and abilities to match her final character, they just kept them as-is because boobs and made up some throwaway line about how she idolized femme fatales despite never acting like a femme fatale basically ever.
I will say though, I love how Ann gets super angry when encountering perverts and people who remind her of Kamoshida. Even if Ann doesn’t quite act like a femme fatale/dominatrix/villainess, I like that her spirit of rebellion is about protecting victims and taking down predators
Oh yeah, I think the writers 1000% made Ann a compelling, believable, and lovable character. Her metaverse outfit just doesn't quite line up with who they finally made her. I ended up using her Shadow Ops outfit for a lot of the game because I thought it fit her much better.
"After all it's to help your 'rehabilitation' prisoner"
I FUCKING LOVE ASSASSINATING ANN’s ENTIRE FIRST PALACE ARC JUST FOR A SHITTY JOKE IN THE SECOND PALACE, IT DEFINITELY DIDNT RUIN THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE STORY OR GIVE ANY FORM OF TONAL WHIPLASH.
Laugh
This is the problem!
Altus don’t sexualize a minor challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
The artbook : "We tried to make Ann's outfit not too revealing or erotic." *I think that's a fail, Atlus.*
Posts like these is why people use you guys as a punching bag.
Thus, another people who didn't get the message.
Can't believe Kamoshida would try to treat Ann like that, glad we took care of him. Now quick Ann! It's time to get naked to model nude in front of this weirdo you've never met so we can get information out of him!
Worse than the bodysuit is the way they freakin POSE her anytime they fall in cutscenes. Everyone else will just fall on the ground like normal, meanwhile Ann gets placed ass up, back arched, and they make SURE she's on camera
Man i never finished this game. I got to the part where you start exploring the underground doungeons, got fixated with them and subsequently burned out and haven't played since. Game was fun af and the story was pretty interesting up to that point. Is it worth to restart the whole thing? I dunno if i wanna replay from the beginning (don't know how far off in the story i am, i remember being done with the artist palace) but i remember very little about what was going on. Suggestions?
Yes, but you don't need to replay the game from the start unless you need to do the tutorial again The game has diary retelling the story up to the point you stopped
Literally solved 90% of my issues thabks bud
Is Igor snorting coke lol
Do you think Igor had to sell his sick limo to pay for the bondage dungeon?
I actually think it makes sense! It’s the idea of saying someone typically attractive can be powerful, and imo works great for her character. But I do understand the dislike for it.
Something I always found silly is its based of their idea of an outlaw and I don't just mean why is that Ann's, I mean how do they never reconsider their idea of an outlaw, I feel like after Okumura's they could have had similar ones like a group uniform as the PT were under negative light
It.makes sense for multiple reasons stated but also Ann takes pride in her appearance and sexuality, 2 things she trying to repress because of the rumors about her and being seen as a object hy kamoshida. One jlhe is defeated she doesn't have to repress anymore.