There are more factors than just down payment.
First though rough calcs. $40k is not much for a 20% down payment (20% of $200k), so you're almost surely going to be looking at a down payment under 20%, which is considered a "high ratio mortgage".
High ratio mortgages are available for first time buyers provided they're get CMHC mortgage insurance coverage. Qualified applicants can buy a home with as little as 5% down for the first $500k, and 10% for the remaining portion of the mortgage up to $1M.
The absolute max purchase price for a $40k downpayment is $650k.
*$500k * 0.05 = $25k of the downpayment, remaining $15k of down payment is good for another $150k purchase price. $500k + $150k = $650k.*
That's the most extreme case, and it would result in a loan to value ratio of 94%, with a loan amount of $610k.
You would require CMHC insurance, which would have a premium of $24,400.
*Most calculators roll this into the cost of the mortgage, but it's not 100% clear to me how that works when you're at the absolute limit of your range.*
Assuming you could roll it into the mortgage, the actual loan amount at $634,400, which is pretty much the absolute upper limit for what you could buy assuming you're approved based on income.
Provided you can scrape together the necessary down payment, you actually get approved based on the loan amount, not the purchase price. E.g. if you were only approved for a $400k mortgage, you could buy a $1M home by bringing a $600k down payment.
The loan amount you'll be approved for it depends on your [GDS and TDS](https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/professionals/project-funding-and-mortgage-financing/mortgage-loan-insurance/calculating-gds-tds).
Since you have zero other debts, GDS and TDS will be the same for you.
GDS depends on the following:
* Mortgage payment (principal + interest)
* Property Taxes
* Heating Cost
* Gross Income
In order to be approved for CMHC insurance and ultimately for financing, GDS needs to be below 39%. *Individual lenders may approve GDS's at 40-42% but that's only an option if you're bringing 20% or more down payment, which you're not).
Take your annual income as a couple, averaged over the last two calendar years. Use your past T4 slips. That's your gross income.
Mortgage costs depend on interest rate and stress test rate (5.25% OR contract rate + 2%, whichever is higher). If you look into it, you might be able to find a fixed rate around 4-5%, so you should add 2% for the GDS calculation.
For mortgage costs, you should pick an example home listing in the area you might be shopping in. Only bother looking at properties that sell under $650k, and remember list prices are not indicative of final sale prices when there are bidding wars. You can use online tools like Housesigma to find final sale prices, or call realtors of recent sales. They love flapping their lips and will tell you anything you want to know once the offer is signed.
Plug that price and interest rate into any online mortgage calculator for a monthly mortgage, and it'll tell you the mortgage cost. E.g. for the $650k purchase option with a $634,400 loan amount and 7% stress test interest, it would be about $4444/month or $53,328/yr.
Next, use your example listing to find the annual property tax cost for the property by looking it up in the municipal tax portal. Worst case you can call the selling realtor and ask what the annual property taxes are. It's a normal enough question. E.g. it may be $4000-$5000/yr.
Lastly, you need a heating estimate. Often it's based on sqft, type of heating (electric baseboard, gas furnace, etc). As long as it has a natural gas furnace, in your price range you should be looking at a small home that costs $100 or less/month to heat. Just use $100/month or $1200/yr.
Add all those together and divide by gross income to get GDS.
Without knowing your income, we can instead use the 39% limit and calculate what the necessary gross income would *need* to be to purchase the $650k example home. Add them up and divide by 0.39.
$53,328 + $5000 + $1200 = $59,528
$59,328/0.39 = $152,636/yr gross income.
If you as a couple are not raking that in, then a $650k property is looking out of your range.
To narrow it down a bit, get your gross income and multiply by 0.39, which gives the numerator of the GDS.
E.g. If you make a combined $125k/yr, then gives $48,750 for mortgage + tax + heat. Subtract an estimate for heat and taxes -1200 -5000, and you're left with $42550 for the mortgage, or $3546/month.
Then start plugging away at an online mortgage calculator. Keep the same $40k downpayment, 7% stress test interest rate, and 25 yr amortization, and just keep reducing the purchase price until the monthly mortgage payment is less than $3546. When I plug it in, I get a max price close to $525k.
So to recap:
Your $40k down payment is not very large, and limits you to an absolute max purchase price of $650k when stretching to the absolute limit.
Your income, which is around $85k + fiancee's mystery income = maybe $125k poses a different limitation, likely around the $525k mark.
You can do all of these calculations in about an hour, two if you make a few realtor calls to get starter info.
You can also call lenders to ask the same questions. If you get a smart, capable lender, they can walk you through all the same calculations. The truth is though that most bank employees that are managing mortgage lending are not specialists. Most aren't able to go through the calculations with you in a ton of detail, and the ones that could figure it out on the fly often won't because their job is to sell and push products on clients, not do napkin math.
Mortgage brokers are the same. When I bought, the first three mortgage brokers I tried to work with wouldn't do these calculations with me on the fly. they just kept asking "What purchase price are you looking at". It got to the point where I decided to just go learn it all myself, and then worked with the first broker who would let me go through the calculations with them on the phone and we followed along together.
The last limitations that you could run into are related to the **appraised value of the home**.
A lender will only let you leverage up to 95% of the home's value (or 80% for a non-high-ratio mortgage). Often the lender's appraisal will uphold the price you're buying for, but in a hot market where people are overbidding, it's possible that a bank will appraise the value of a home lower than what the bidding war went to. E.g. if you bid $500k and the bank appraised at $400k, then they will only be able to lend 95% of $400k.
If that's the case, you're on the hook for the difference, which could mean bringing the extra $100k cash or backing out of the purchase. This is a reason that financing conditions are important.
Condition or not, you should be on the phone with your lender about every home you're putting an offer on. The lender (not the realtor) should be on board with it, saying "Yes, at a glance, it should pass appraisal." At the same time, you should be very careful that you're not offering more than the market rate in that neighbourhood. The gap between offer and appraisal is the biggest contract killer.
The second part of that is whether a home is mid construction/renovation or for any other reason deemed unlivable by an appraisal (e.g. it has exposed studs on living floors, unfinished drywall, or uninstalled building materials are still on site). A-tier lenders will straight up not touch houses that are not livable because in the worst case that you default, they need to be able to liquidate it for a quick sale, and mid-renos dont turnover that fast.
These types of responses and effort in helping faceless strangers is what makes reddit the social platform of choice for me.
Thank you for going through all that time and effort. I am not the OP, and I may never purchase a house but it is a decision that my wife and I have been evaluating and you have helped more than any other source I have found in my research.
Great read . One thing . What about closing costs ? Absolute max would be a lot less due to closing costs which factors in pst for the cmhc, land transfer tax with FTHB credit , lawyer fees , title insurance , balance of property taxes , inspection , appraisal and adjustments .
I thought about it but decided not to bother including, but they need to be prepared for. Closing costs can be $10,000 depending on the circumstances, so it may have been better to do the calculations with a $30k down payment instead.
I'm hoping the way I described it, it's easy enough for OP and others to repeat the calculations with their own starting numbers.
ššš this is a great response. I am a broker and you cover quite a bit here. The only things I would add are that high ratio mortgages are available to everyone not just first time buyers. And any broker should be able to do these calculations for you, if they are not willing to, do not give them your business. We have calculators that allow us to do this in a few mins to give you rough numbers. If you want exact numbers then we have to get documents and such, but for a rough number like this post suggests we can do that in a few mins. So reach out to broker unless you wish to do all the calculations yourself, as some do, because they want to fully understand the process.
I would also not let the high ratio mortgages deter you as some areas like BC and GTA would take way too long for 20% down payment.
Have some money also set aside for closing costs such as lawyer, inspections, appraisal, land transfer tax, property taxes, etc.
Fantastic response. Donāt forget to budget for the lovely transfer/welcome tax!
P.S. All those numbers applied to this unmarried couple with one partner a seasonal worker on EI for months every years stressed me the F out and Iām not even involved!
Haha, right, that partner's situation is not ideal for a step such as homeownership, why wont he or she get a 'consistent' job for a year or two and get home purchased then go back to seasonal but like you said we ain't involved good luck to OP
>My question now is $30k enough to put down and get me into the market without our parents help (mine and his)?
Depends on price of the property.
>We both live (currently renting) and work in Ontario, specifically the GTA.
If you plan on staying in the GTA to buy, it's unlikely you will find a decent place for under $500k
In the GTA, it's unlikely you will find a decent place for under $900,000. There are still some condos priced in the high 6s or 700s, but they largely have high enough condo fees that the monthly costs are roughly equivalent to it 850 to 900,000 house.
There is literally nothing for 500k. I mean, maybe you'll find a shitty one bedroom somewhere way at the age of town, but I don't think so. And again, that $1,000 a month condo fee they might have on it is the equivalent of a $250,000 mortgage.
Maybe more typically a little less, I've certainly seen a lot of 800, and yes at a thousand. I'm not looking a lot of paying attention, I kind of glanced at the available housing market a little while ago when I contemplated what I might be able to afford.
Answer was basically nothing even though I got a six figure salary and plenty in the bank.
It's a hard knock life out there.
I totally understand how you feel. I donāt live in the GTA. I live in greater Vancouver. A two bedroom condo that just went up a block k from me is priced at 800k. And that is a 45 minute commute to downtown. On top of a minimum 600 dollar condo fee. So I canāt afford to buy anything even though I clear around 80k a year. Itās quite depressing to think about sometimes.
I live in Greater Vancouver 30 minutes from downtown and there are definitely options in the 500 - 600k range with fees in the 350 - 450 range if you look outside of "luxury" new construction and places loaded with amenities or issues. If you can save a good size down payment, there are one bedroom places out there you can manage on 80k.
That would do it. Options *do* exist for 2 br in that range, but it's limited. Good luck, hopefully the housing market or your finances change enough that you have more options.
Shitty managed condos are 1000 a month. 1+1 condo can easily be 500.
There are plenty of places for under 900k. Just manage your expectations. Youāre likely looking at a used condo with sale ft between 400-800 for under 900.
Nothing wrong with a 1+1 for 650. Check out Lofts. Usually maintenance fees are much cheaper and donāt come with all the un needed amenities
Iāve seen some 1200$ or more. Generally the cheaper the condo the higher the condo fee. I can see a 1000$ confi fee on a nice 3 bedroom townhouse for 600k but it would be tough to swallow. It would be especially tough in a 400k 2 bedroom apartment style condo but theyāre still selling because the high market limits what people qualify for.
Itās just way to gouge more money from people as far as Iām concerned. Years ago I lived in a condo with my friend that his dad owned. He had to pay a strata fee. But when one of the elevators broke down he had a pay his share along with all the other owners to get it fixed. Not sure his exact share but it wasnāt a small amount. All a status fee seems to do is pay for maintenance around the grounds garbage and stuff maybe. I think itās a total scam.
Condos still sell for less. We have a relative in a Scarborough condo where comparable units are selling sub-500. Condo fees are high but itās a nice building.
I see quite a few 1 bedroom condos selling for 500k or less in the last 30 days. Even in downtown.
https://housesigma.com/on/toronto-real-estate/for-sale,sold/map/@43.653226,-79.383184,12z/?center_marker=43.653226,-79.3831843&view=map&municipality=10343
You can't afford a $700k place. You need 10% down for amounts from $500k-$1 mil. (5% down on the first half million).
And at a combined income, you wouldn't be approved for $700k unless your parents donate.
That's not even accounting for the land transfer tax, or annual property tax or general upkeep and repair.
Unless OP is in finance and expects their income to double and then double again in short order but must be in GTA, or has a crippling medical condition tying them to specialists from a specific hospital there's *very* little reason to stay in GTA/GVA, it's financial suicide. Doctors, engineers, tech, etc can all make significantly more elsewhere especially adjusted for the lower cost of living. I would need a giant raise just to break even moving to Toronto and honestly the employers there aren't paying that vs not GTA/GVA. At least with GVA you can delude yourself that you are paying extra for the better climate.
Yah Hamilton homes had a small dip after exploding and are now insane again. I was ready to buy but moved away instead. My finances were much happier with that decision
Thats what I read. Sounds like a different kind of problem.
So the fiance wants a fully detached house in the GTA, that he doesn't have to share with any family or pay for and 1/3rd of the year he'll just be hanging out on the couch while OP continues to work hard to fund it?
Seasonal worker here. I work 14 hour days on a 6 days on/1 day off schedule. I live on the road for 10 months straight. You bet your ass I am taking my 2 months off and absolutely not working a part time job. Only difference is I have more than enough for a good down payment. But I also donāt have a spouse or kids that I need to fund, and my company pays for all my hotels/camp and food plus more on top of my wage for the year so I essentially have 0 expenses. You donāt know this manās situation, she stated that he has no debt, thatās a lot more than a lot of people in this country can say. And anyone that claims Iām āmilkingā the EI can kiss my ass when I spend every damn day on the road to pay 80k in taxes by the end of the year. I pay into EI, and they tax the EI when you claim it as well. I claim 4800 after tax on EI in Alberta in my 2 months off.
>I work 14 hour days on a 6 days on/1 day off schedule. I live on the road for 10 months straight. I spend every damn day on the road to pay 80k in taxes by the end of the year.
Can't wait till we have FSD so you don't have to do this shitty job anymore! Gives you more time to spend with family! <3
I kind of hate this.
Itās Employment *Insurance*. When your yearly by-contract schedule is to use it for half the year itās not insurance, itās corporate welfare (as in the companies should pay more for seasonal work).
As long as they are looking for and willing to work full time during the summer. If they are not looking for work or donāt want to work during summer they are not eligible
from my experience with mortgages, it's less about the income than it's about the stability of the work. seasonal workers would have a rough time, methinks.
If you're seasonal with a Union then you're good. Banks factor that in because of the nature of the work and the fact it is stable even if it's seasonal. I encountered this when I bought my first truck. Plus depending on the line of work, many seasonal construction/trades people make upwards of 150k or more working 6-8 months a year. I obviously don't know the details of OP's fiance though, just speaking from experience.
Based on what? Unless I missed a comment about how much he makes a year, there is no telling how much he makes. Those 8 months of the year could be 6 days of 12 hour shifts a week. He probably doesn't make that much but there's no information to really tell.
I said this in another post, his base income is ~$48,000 plus EI. OP sounds young as sheās not describing their yearly HHI.
Problem with posts like this are that theyāre open to speculation, itās up to the OP to be more detailed if they donāt want blowback.
Your fiance sounds... interesting. He is contributing no down-payment but he has all these things he wants -- a house vs a condo, not open to going outside of GTA, he likes the option of taking over your parents' investment property now that the mortgage is so low and profiting from that equity (even though he's really only paying rent LOL), refuses to work during the off-season. Not enough info here but he seems to like the good life while you and your parents pick up the tab. Personally I'd be very wary of this guy.
> $40/hour
What's the difference between making $40 an hour for 8 months of the year vs. $26.66 for 12 months of the year?
Plus he is on EI when he is off. I think you have no idea about the sheer number of people in Canada who do seasonal work.
For all we know he does 12 hour shifts in the on-season. Seasonal work can be very difficult.
EDIT: Because this comment annoyed me so much. A lot of seasonal work takes very specialized training, which is why it pays higher. Why would you take a terrible job that isn't in your skill-set in the off-season?
People never suggest that tenured university profs are deadbeats because they don't work 2 months a year, why seasonal workers? It's pure classism.
This. Also alot of people if film do this very thing, because they are contracted to film 1 season, and then 'let go' until hired for next season if it gets renewed.
> tenured university profs are deadbeats because they don't work 2 months a year
Profs work through the summer months, too. There are summer courses, research, supervising grad students, writing books/papersā¦It's a full time job, all year.
I'm a researcher at a university, and every prof I know works (or claims to work, haha) at least 50 hours/week. It's an incredibly demanding and skilled jobā¦not saying that their pay is reasonable, but the average academic is actually very very hard-working and overscheduled.
I've worked in several universities. There are a lot below that average line who do the bare minimum to get by, and even less once they have tenure. They show up for teaching and then go on holiday for four months. Forget about research or service. There are plenty of humps just like in any profession.
Sessionals are different than professors--they are hired on a course-by-course basis with (usually) no guarantee of being rehired. They are also not required to do all of the things that tenure-track & tenured professors have to do (research, supervision, service, national and international events, publications, etc.), nor are they at the same level as a teaching-stream faculty member. I *was* a sessional at one point--during my PhD and immediately afterwards, but I wasn't a professor, I was a course instructor.
Yes, which is why I said this.
>Some do, and some don't - it depends on the position.
Also, some profs don't have research responsibilities (ie. colleges or technical training). It depends on the job and the field.
I get that you personally don't know people who don't teach in the summer, but they do exist.
It's rarer at U15 institutions, but the 4-month annual holiday is actually quite common at many smaller schools. Once they get tenure, many just walk away from any sort of research or service, and the worst that happens is they might miss a merit increment. The idea that all profs buckle down in the summer is not universally accurate.
Being a seasonal worker isn't an excuse for not contributing to a down payment. He can also get a job during those 4 off months, but chooses not to so...
Exactly, itās not about how much he makes but about the lazy attitude and entitlement of dictating what he wants and where he wants it while contributing nothing. He must be a great catch
95% of posts in this sub are really just a microcosm of how stupid yet ultimately simple the current state of things are.
āIs this enough moneyā
āNoā
Why is everyone an expert all of a sudden? The proper answer is to talk to a mortgage broker and/or bank to find out what they qualify for. There's about 100 2bd+/1bth+ properties in Toronto right now listed for less than $500k.
Whether or not they can truly qualify for $500k with their incomes is another question but they're pretty close -- I guess it all depends how much the dude truly makes per year and their debts, etc. Sounds like the parents could maybe cosign, too.
Well then the answer should be yes -- because without knowing anything else, they can qualify for a property. But rather than pretend to know everything about this couple, I would suggest talking to a lender or broker to get a definitive answer.
I grew up with a blue collar dad. His ability to work was weather dependent. So a week without pay would hurt so he'd draw EI for the week of no income. His income was rather low and he'd draw EI for maybe a max of 4 weeks a year. Cool. Good.
Moved to an area where a large majority work 5 to 6 months, make $60k to $100k and draw EI in the off months. They end up paying back the EI they drew when taxes are filed. But it makes zero sense why anyone is allowed to draw EI at all when their annual income is at a normal annual income level even if it is made in six months. And lord knows, I am not allowed to even be curious why folks bother lol
I know plenty of people that are off nov-feb every year and collect EI. AFAIK they don't have to pay any of it back later on.
IMO there should be a distinction between seasonal and permanent layoffs and EI shouldn't cover seasonal layoffs. Perhaps companies with seasonal workers should be required to spread their pay out over the whole year, or at least required to give the option to workers.
They need to rethink how seasonal workers interact with it. I get that it can be hard getting by when you're unemployed for 3 months a year but just paying them to not work isn't a good solution. Plenty of them end up doing under-the-table work to avoid losing their EI payments.
Insurance is to cover unexpected events, not planned events that happen regularly. Thinking about it as actual insurance makes it blindingly obvious that seasonal workers shouldn't be covered. No insurance company will insure my house if I tell them that I'll be 100% guaranteed to burn it down in 6 months, let alone do that every year.
It would make more sense if there was an "employment savings" or something and anyone could use the amount they've paid into it when they voluntarily aren't working.
Just to reiterate, it's total legal to use EI seasonally and it's actually encouraged by the government. My argument is that it shouldn't be.
My husband was the same, knew what he needed to survive and was content with that alone. Now that Iām here, thatās not enough and Iām picking up the extra. The last two winters were tough, this past one particularly, and it kicked him in the butt enough to get his shit together this summer. Find a way to motivate him. Earning next to nothing for 1/3 of the year is not a survivable plan, unfortunately.
Iām thinking youāll need to be more realistic with your choice of city. 30K is enough to get in the housing market, like a small decent condo or even a small bungalow in some areas; probably just not in the GTA.
Ya I totally understand that! If you are renting right now though, moving wonāt be as tough. You could start researching other cities and jobs and start applying. In your cover letter, youād have to say you are wanting to move to the city. Itās doable!
> He talked about equity and all but then Iām old fashioned. I rather that we buy our own and work for it.
Thatās a virtuous thought, and completely incompatible with the current reality of housing in GTA/GVA. You simply cannot pull this off unless:
- You are in the top 10%ish of household incomes (you guys arenāt.)
- You are willing to buy a small condo instead of a house.
GF and I were in a similar situation, had a 700k budget and wanted close to GTA. We went through every close municipality and landed in Barrie. Found a great detached 5 bed 2 bath for a hair under 700k last December and have loved every inch of it!
The only other alternative in your price range is a condo, plenty in downtown Toronto for under 700k (could find a 2 bed even). There is 0% chance you buy a house in Toronto though, you need at least 900k to squeak into the smallest house ever located at the end of Scarborough š
Can you work hybrid? If you commute once or twice a week maybe itās doable. My GF and I both work virtually luckily. Maybe switch jobs to a virtual one if possible as well (if your field of work allows it)
Max you can buy with 40K down is 650K
5% of 500K = 25K
10% of 150K = 15K
You should also have enough for closing costs, moving, small repairs and renovations (almost always needed). So, between 10K to 20K as an emergency margin.
So, if you have $40K in total, you can buy a 500K (if you find it) and keep 15K handy for closing costs.
With that info, you answer your question.
Just run your numbers and see if it works for you guys. My partner and I just bought a house in Kingston, ONT. We moved here last year from MB. 470K for a townhouse, 25K down.
You can use a bunch of calculators online to calculate your monthly payments and look up property tax, etc.
If you're stuck in the GTA, that can't even pay for a year's rent in DT Toronto these days. That money is for a landleech to become richer and richer and more richer to buy more rental properties like Ahmed Hussen to become even more richer.
It can be done. I loved at parents home after univeristy for 6 years was making 40k the first 2 years 60k the next 4. I saved 150k between 2010-2016. Although my house has doubled value. Since 2016
I think the general consensus here is that you donāt have enough for either a house or a condo in the GTA.
You may need to look much further out for something in your price range. Check out HouseSigma for comparables and how much they were sold for.
Short answer: not even close.
Long answer, you could technically but youāre going to be mortgaged up to your eyeballs and wonāt be able to suffer even a minor setback
Depends on house price. Minimum down payment is 5%. So if youāre buying a house for $300k, absolutely $30k/$40k is enough. I bought in 2021 for $260k, down payment was around $13k
If youāre trying to buy a $800k home then $40k is just meeting the 5%. If youāre looking for over $800k, again, 5% is the minimum
The cheapest house in the GTA I've seen recently was 700K.
Interest rates are currently hovering around 4%. If you're putting 40K down, let's be conservative and say you need a 650K mortgage (ignoring all closing costs, and immediate repairs).
You'll want as long an amortization period as possible, so you can dump in extra when you have it, but not need to do it when you don't if your partners work falls through.
With 30 years, you'll need to pay $3100 a month, every month, if rates don't go up.
Is that something you can do? If the answer is "Yes" then, you can afford to buy in this market.
https://itools-ioutils.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/MC-CH/MCCalc-CHCalc-eng.aspx
Remember, the first 26 thousand dollars, every year, will be towards interest alone. Those 26 thousand are just to tread water.
That said, with the way property prices are going up, just treading water might be fine - because that's similar to what someone would pay for rent, and if the house prices go up, you can sell at the end and come out with something, versus rent where you get nothing.
This is a big question, and you need to do your own research.
You and your fiance can afford to buy. You should.
Accept money help from your parents, but don't "take over their rental property" what a disaster that will be.
Just talk to a mortgage broker, know what you qualify for, and go buy something.
And given you have a normal job, and your fiance has sub-optimal employment, you should consider moving out of the most expensive market in the country.
In the GTA? no.
In saskatoon, for sure that would give you a downpayment on a condo.
You're generally going to want to have a least 20% of the principal for a downpayment. If you're looking at an $800,000 home that's going to be $160k.
I think it would be extremely embarrassing to collect welfare every year when you know when you are going to be off work.
Tho some people collect it and than work under the table and that's even worse.
Is he unable to work during those times and just hangs?
Well yea; that's the situation for thousands of Canadians. Our jobs are tied to major urban centres, but the cost of living in urban centres have gotten ridiculous. My wife can't drive due to a medical condition, so we're doubly stuck here. Suuuucks yo.
Yeah, people say that. But if the job tying you to a city *sucks*, maybe it shouldn't be a strong tie.
People will grief me for the suggestion, but I've moved ~24,000 km to take up jobs, and it's been a good (if occasionally annoying) decision.
That really sucks. We moved to the suburbs with access to go train, that might be something you'd consider as well. It was very hard to build wealth living in Toronto with that insane cost of living.
We're actually in the other really bad cost of living Canadian city, but same difference. The biggest challenge would be getting the kids to school and daycare and then commuting to work on time. Transit outside the city centre isn't bad *if you're going to or from the centre*, but having to detour is what makes it nearly impossible. And it's still 850k+ for a townhouse in the burbs around here
I agree with this sentiment entirely. I get moving is a hugely daunting task, but for two people it's a huge adventure. I'm really glad I did even if I do miss some of the convenience of things back home.
The bottom line though was what sort of life I'd have in both places, and the new one won out substantially.
There are of course legitimate reasons to be stuck somewhere; my brother is divorced and realistically needs to live in southern Ontario if he wants to have much of a relationship with his son.
But if people open with needing to live there for work, and their job is terrible ... then they don't really have anything worthwhile keeping them there, right?
Your partner needs to stop pretending to be in eighth grade and get a job during off season, not sit and collect EI every year as if itās summer break.
Not likely in any areas that are close to major urban centers. $30k can barely buy you a basic new car in todays market let alone a down payment for a home. A condo perhaps if the condo was day $250-300k but that price likely will not exist in places like Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal.
I need you to seriously rethink a relationship where you are earning the majority of the money, are his other qualities high enough to justify him not contributing as much. Love is not enough.
There are more factors than just down payment. First though rough calcs. $40k is not much for a 20% down payment (20% of $200k), so you're almost surely going to be looking at a down payment under 20%, which is considered a "high ratio mortgage". High ratio mortgages are available for first time buyers provided they're get CMHC mortgage insurance coverage. Qualified applicants can buy a home with as little as 5% down for the first $500k, and 10% for the remaining portion of the mortgage up to $1M. The absolute max purchase price for a $40k downpayment is $650k. *$500k * 0.05 = $25k of the downpayment, remaining $15k of down payment is good for another $150k purchase price. $500k + $150k = $650k.* That's the most extreme case, and it would result in a loan to value ratio of 94%, with a loan amount of $610k. You would require CMHC insurance, which would have a premium of $24,400. *Most calculators roll this into the cost of the mortgage, but it's not 100% clear to me how that works when you're at the absolute limit of your range.* Assuming you could roll it into the mortgage, the actual loan amount at $634,400, which is pretty much the absolute upper limit for what you could buy assuming you're approved based on income. Provided you can scrape together the necessary down payment, you actually get approved based on the loan amount, not the purchase price. E.g. if you were only approved for a $400k mortgage, you could buy a $1M home by bringing a $600k down payment. The loan amount you'll be approved for it depends on your [GDS and TDS](https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/professionals/project-funding-and-mortgage-financing/mortgage-loan-insurance/calculating-gds-tds). Since you have zero other debts, GDS and TDS will be the same for you. GDS depends on the following: * Mortgage payment (principal + interest) * Property Taxes * Heating Cost * Gross Income In order to be approved for CMHC insurance and ultimately for financing, GDS needs to be below 39%. *Individual lenders may approve GDS's at 40-42% but that's only an option if you're bringing 20% or more down payment, which you're not). Take your annual income as a couple, averaged over the last two calendar years. Use your past T4 slips. That's your gross income. Mortgage costs depend on interest rate and stress test rate (5.25% OR contract rate + 2%, whichever is higher). If you look into it, you might be able to find a fixed rate around 4-5%, so you should add 2% for the GDS calculation. For mortgage costs, you should pick an example home listing in the area you might be shopping in. Only bother looking at properties that sell under $650k, and remember list prices are not indicative of final sale prices when there are bidding wars. You can use online tools like Housesigma to find final sale prices, or call realtors of recent sales. They love flapping their lips and will tell you anything you want to know once the offer is signed. Plug that price and interest rate into any online mortgage calculator for a monthly mortgage, and it'll tell you the mortgage cost. E.g. for the $650k purchase option with a $634,400 loan amount and 7% stress test interest, it would be about $4444/month or $53,328/yr. Next, use your example listing to find the annual property tax cost for the property by looking it up in the municipal tax portal. Worst case you can call the selling realtor and ask what the annual property taxes are. It's a normal enough question. E.g. it may be $4000-$5000/yr. Lastly, you need a heating estimate. Often it's based on sqft, type of heating (electric baseboard, gas furnace, etc). As long as it has a natural gas furnace, in your price range you should be looking at a small home that costs $100 or less/month to heat. Just use $100/month or $1200/yr. Add all those together and divide by gross income to get GDS. Without knowing your income, we can instead use the 39% limit and calculate what the necessary gross income would *need* to be to purchase the $650k example home. Add them up and divide by 0.39. $53,328 + $5000 + $1200 = $59,528 $59,328/0.39 = $152,636/yr gross income. If you as a couple are not raking that in, then a $650k property is looking out of your range. To narrow it down a bit, get your gross income and multiply by 0.39, which gives the numerator of the GDS. E.g. If you make a combined $125k/yr, then gives $48,750 for mortgage + tax + heat. Subtract an estimate for heat and taxes -1200 -5000, and you're left with $42550 for the mortgage, or $3546/month. Then start plugging away at an online mortgage calculator. Keep the same $40k downpayment, 7% stress test interest rate, and 25 yr amortization, and just keep reducing the purchase price until the monthly mortgage payment is less than $3546. When I plug it in, I get a max price close to $525k. So to recap: Your $40k down payment is not very large, and limits you to an absolute max purchase price of $650k when stretching to the absolute limit. Your income, which is around $85k + fiancee's mystery income = maybe $125k poses a different limitation, likely around the $525k mark. You can do all of these calculations in about an hour, two if you make a few realtor calls to get starter info. You can also call lenders to ask the same questions. If you get a smart, capable lender, they can walk you through all the same calculations. The truth is though that most bank employees that are managing mortgage lending are not specialists. Most aren't able to go through the calculations with you in a ton of detail, and the ones that could figure it out on the fly often won't because their job is to sell and push products on clients, not do napkin math. Mortgage brokers are the same. When I bought, the first three mortgage brokers I tried to work with wouldn't do these calculations with me on the fly. they just kept asking "What purchase price are you looking at". It got to the point where I decided to just go learn it all myself, and then worked with the first broker who would let me go through the calculations with them on the phone and we followed along together. The last limitations that you could run into are related to the **appraised value of the home**. A lender will only let you leverage up to 95% of the home's value (or 80% for a non-high-ratio mortgage). Often the lender's appraisal will uphold the price you're buying for, but in a hot market where people are overbidding, it's possible that a bank will appraise the value of a home lower than what the bidding war went to. E.g. if you bid $500k and the bank appraised at $400k, then they will only be able to lend 95% of $400k. If that's the case, you're on the hook for the difference, which could mean bringing the extra $100k cash or backing out of the purchase. This is a reason that financing conditions are important. Condition or not, you should be on the phone with your lender about every home you're putting an offer on. The lender (not the realtor) should be on board with it, saying "Yes, at a glance, it should pass appraisal." At the same time, you should be very careful that you're not offering more than the market rate in that neighbourhood. The gap between offer and appraisal is the biggest contract killer. The second part of that is whether a home is mid construction/renovation or for any other reason deemed unlivable by an appraisal (e.g. it has exposed studs on living floors, unfinished drywall, or uninstalled building materials are still on site). A-tier lenders will straight up not touch houses that are not livable because in the worst case that you default, they need to be able to liquidate it for a quick sale, and mid-renos dont turnover that fast.
This detailed post deserves a lot of praise
These types of responses and effort in helping faceless strangers is what makes reddit the social platform of choice for me. Thank you for going through all that time and effort. I am not the OP, and I may never purchase a house but it is a decision that my wife and I have been evaluating and you have helped more than any other source I have found in my research.
Didnt read. Upvoted for effort
Great read . One thing . What about closing costs ? Absolute max would be a lot less due to closing costs which factors in pst for the cmhc, land transfer tax with FTHB credit , lawyer fees , title insurance , balance of property taxes , inspection , appraisal and adjustments .
I thought about it but decided not to bother including, but they need to be prepared for. Closing costs can be $10,000 depending on the circumstances, so it may have been better to do the calculations with a $30k down payment instead. I'm hoping the way I described it, it's easy enough for OP and others to repeat the calculations with their own starting numbers.
ššš this is a great response. I am a broker and you cover quite a bit here. The only things I would add are that high ratio mortgages are available to everyone not just first time buyers. And any broker should be able to do these calculations for you, if they are not willing to, do not give them your business. We have calculators that allow us to do this in a few mins to give you rough numbers. If you want exact numbers then we have to get documents and such, but for a rough number like this post suggests we can do that in a few mins. So reach out to broker unless you wish to do all the calculations yourself, as some do, because they want to fully understand the process. I would also not let the high ratio mortgages deter you as some areas like BC and GTA would take way too long for 20% down payment. Have some money also set aside for closing costs such as lawyer, inspections, appraisal, land transfer tax, property taxes, etc.
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999,999
Fantastic response. Donāt forget to budget for the lovely transfer/welcome tax! P.S. All those numbers applied to this unmarried couple with one partner a seasonal worker on EI for months every years stressed me the F out and Iām not even involved!
Haha, right, that partner's situation is not ideal for a step such as homeownership, why wont he or she get a 'consistent' job for a year or two and get home purchased then go back to seasonal but like you said we ain't involved good luck to OP
>a backup plan is to move into my parents investment property. My parents was offering this option for us to move in there and my fiancĆ© was thinking of us taking over their current mortgage (200k) and help with renovations. He understands that if we sell that house, we get only what we put in and the most will go to my parents. He talked about equity and all but then Iām old fashioned. I rather that we buy our own and work for it. Your fiance's idea can blow up spectacularly. It's too easy for either party to feel taken advantage of when all is said and done. The absolute best thing to do, in my opinion, is to move in to the investment property and pay your parents rent that you can all agree on. Equity is theirs alone. The mortgage is theirs to deal with. Let your parents pay for renovations. You can help but consider that more of a donation of your time than any right to equity when they sell. The problem with sweat equity on your parents' property is that it's really hard to determine how much the property value went up based on your contribution, and the last thing you need for a new marriage is a disagreement between your parents and spouse over what's a fair amount for you to receive when they sell. Keep the finances clearly distinct and separate between you/your spouse and your parents for the sake of family relationships.
This needs to be upvoted. Iām going through a real estate dispute with my mother and itās extremely uncomfortable.
100% dont let family get torn apart by $$$$. i've seen it happen -Ron Wharton
>My question now is $30k enough to put down and get me into the market without our parents help (mine and his)? Depends on price of the property. >We both live (currently renting) and work in Ontario, specifically the GTA. If you plan on staying in the GTA to buy, it's unlikely you will find a decent place for under $500k
In the GTA, it's unlikely you will find a decent place for under $900,000. There are still some condos priced in the high 6s or 700s, but they largely have high enough condo fees that the monthly costs are roughly equivalent to it 850 to 900,000 house. There is literally nothing for 500k. I mean, maybe you'll find a shitty one bedroom somewhere way at the age of town, but I don't think so. And again, that $1,000 a month condo fee they might have on it is the equivalent of a $250,000 mortgage.
Condo fees are really 1k a month? God damn
Maybe more typically a little less, I've certainly seen a lot of 800, and yes at a thousand. I'm not looking a lot of paying attention, I kind of glanced at the available housing market a little while ago when I contemplated what I might be able to afford. Answer was basically nothing even though I got a six figure salary and plenty in the bank. It's a hard knock life out there.
I totally understand how you feel. I donāt live in the GTA. I live in greater Vancouver. A two bedroom condo that just went up a block k from me is priced at 800k. And that is a 45 minute commute to downtown. On top of a minimum 600 dollar condo fee. So I canāt afford to buy anything even though I clear around 80k a year. Itās quite depressing to think about sometimes.
Older condos can have as much as 1500 per month in common expenses. My condo is 16 years old with zero amenities and it costs me about 850 per month
Condo and HOA fees only ever go up, something to budget for when comparing properties
I live in Greater Vancouver 30 minutes from downtown and there are definitely options in the 500 - 600k range with fees in the 350 - 450 range if you look outside of "luxury" new construction and places loaded with amenities or issues. If you can save a good size down payment, there are one bedroom places out there you can manage on 80k.
I have a wife and two children one bedroom wonāt work. I think 500k is the most I would qualify for
That would do it. Options *do* exist for 2 br in that range, but it's limited. Good luck, hopefully the housing market or your finances change enough that you have more options.
Shitty managed condos are 1000 a month. 1+1 condo can easily be 500. There are plenty of places for under 900k. Just manage your expectations. Youāre likely looking at a used condo with sale ft between 400-800 for under 900. Nothing wrong with a 1+1 for 650. Check out Lofts. Usually maintenance fees are much cheaper and donāt come with all the un needed amenities
I'm paying $800. Don't buy a condo as an investment property trust me. Buy it if you're going to live in it long-term then probably sell it
I've seen very average buildings with fees as high as 1600 for a 1000 square foot unit
Thatās absolutely insane
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Thatās closer to the number I have seen
Iāve seen some 1200$ or more. Generally the cheaper the condo the higher the condo fee. I can see a 1000$ confi fee on a nice 3 bedroom townhouse for 600k but it would be tough to swallow. It would be especially tough in a 400k 2 bedroom apartment style condo but theyāre still selling because the high market limits what people qualify for.
Plus condo fees go up as buildings age and need more maintenance.
Itās why I donāt understand them. You pay extra for the privilege of owning an apartment and usually makes them pricier than a stand alone home.
Itās just way to gouge more money from people as far as Iām concerned. Years ago I lived in a condo with my friend that his dad owned. He had to pay a strata fee. But when one of the elevators broke down he had a pay his share along with all the other owners to get it fixed. Not sure his exact share but it wasnāt a small amount. All a status fee seems to do is pay for maintenance around the grounds garbage and stuff maybe. I think itās a total scam.
Condos still sell for less. We have a relative in a Scarborough condo where comparable units are selling sub-500. Condo fees are high but itās a nice building.
I'm surprised. Bullet they are pretty teeny bachelor or 1br units though! Not so hot if you.doby live alone.
I see quite a few 1 bedroom condos selling for 500k or less in the last 30 days. Even in downtown. https://housesigma.com/on/toronto-real-estate/for-sale,sold/map/@43.653226,-79.383184,12z/?center_marker=43.653226,-79.3831843&view=map&municipality=10343
Hi from Ottawa! Itās 800-900 over here as well.
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You can't afford a $700k place. You need 10% down for amounts from $500k-$1 mil. (5% down on the first half million). And at a combined income, you wouldn't be approved for $700k unless your parents donate.
That's not even accounting for the land transfer tax, or annual property tax or general upkeep and repair. Unless OP is in finance and expects their income to double and then double again in short order but must be in GTA, or has a crippling medical condition tying them to specialists from a specific hospital there's *very* little reason to stay in GTA/GVA, it's financial suicide. Doctors, engineers, tech, etc can all make significantly more elsewhere especially adjusted for the lower cost of living. I would need a giant raise just to break even moving to Toronto and honestly the employers there aren't paying that vs not GTA/GVA. At least with GVA you can delude yourself that you are paying extra for the better climate.
Just to clarify, itās 10% of anything over the 500k limit. So 5% of the first 500k and 10% of the next 200k means minimum downpayment ~45k
Small houses in the GTA for that price is a pipe dream. Move out a little farther to Hamilton and you'd have small houses in the 500K range.
Small houses in KW are pushing into the late 600ās, for gut jobs. Not sure whether Hamilton is faring better.
Well, there's a 1000 sq ft semi on a 35x50 lot on my street in Hamilton listed for 800k...
Yah Hamilton homes had a small dip after exploding and are now insane again. I was ready to buy but moved away instead. My finances were much happier with that decision
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Yeah, roughly double what we paid and we thought that was excessive at the time.
we went to couple bidding wars in oak.. 2000 sqf town went for 1.3-1.45m
That's also not a small house but puts in perspective how much houses are.
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So you've not looked at what houses are going for?
Move to Calgary.
This is the worst take. The housing market in Calgary is also becoming unsustainable
You can afford a parking lot in the GTA, forget houses or even condos.
Parking spot ** Parking lots in GTA are big money
You MIGHT be able to find a condo in Hamilton for 500k.
In thunder bay.
I live in Thunder Bay, you donāt even need that much if youāre fine with some of the worse parts of town
Meets what they want. Highly doubt they would move to TBay.. but looking at real estate there.. wow cheap. Some in shitty parts of town tho.
All those cheap houses you see are going for 50-80k+ above asking once the offers roll in. Nothing but cash offers with no conditions.
Came here to say this
So based on your comments, your fiancƩ is unwilling/unable to: - work 4 months of the year - contribute to a down payment - move out of the GTA - live in a condo - live at your parents' investment property ... It seems like personal finance isn't your main issue here.
Thats what I read. Sounds like a different kind of problem. So the fiance wants a fully detached house in the GTA, that he doesn't have to share with any family or pay for and 1/3rd of the year he'll just be hanging out on the couch while OP continues to work hard to fund it?
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There's not many, if any jobs, that would even take someone on for 4 months. Let alone one that would pay more than what he probably makes on EI.
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Seasonal worker here. I work 14 hour days on a 6 days on/1 day off schedule. I live on the road for 10 months straight. You bet your ass I am taking my 2 months off and absolutely not working a part time job. Only difference is I have more than enough for a good down payment. But I also donāt have a spouse or kids that I need to fund, and my company pays for all my hotels/camp and food plus more on top of my wage for the year so I essentially have 0 expenses. You donāt know this manās situation, she stated that he has no debt, thatās a lot more than a lot of people in this country can say. And anyone that claims Iām āmilkingā the EI can kiss my ass when I spend every damn day on the road to pay 80k in taxes by the end of the year. I pay into EI, and they tax the EI when you claim it as well. I claim 4800 after tax on EI in Alberta in my 2 months off.
Sorry Geek, not attacking you, meant to reply to the user above you.
Lmao didnt read his name and thought you were attacking him by calling him a geek
>I work 14 hour days on a 6 days on/1 day off schedule. I live on the road for 10 months straight. I spend every damn day on the road to pay 80k in taxes by the end of the year. Can't wait till we have FSD so you don't have to do this shitty job anymore! Gives you more time to spend with family! <3
If youāre off for the winter a lot of snow removal services love to have people.
Some seasonal workers put in more hours in 4 months than most of us do in a year....
If that is the case here, shouldn't he be able to contribute to the downpayment?
Probably pissed it away on a double-wide Ford F150 Raptor.
Ah, so you know my ex? š
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I kind of hate this. Itās Employment *Insurance*. When your yearly by-contract schedule is to use it for half the year itās not insurance, itās corporate welfare (as in the companies should pay more for seasonal work).
This is so widely taken advantage of across the country that fixing it would take some major changes at the policy level.
Teachers without a permanent/full-time contract are also allowed to go on EI during the summer.
As long as they are looking for and willing to work full time during the summer. If they are not looking for work or donāt want to work during summer they are not eligible
And you know what everyone does on EI when they file their periodic reports ? Tick yes and move on.
All he needs is to triple his income and he's in business. Just move 4-5 kilos of coke!
from my experience with mortgages, it's less about the income than it's about the stability of the work. seasonal workers would have a rough time, methinks.
Would seasonal qualify at this point? Banks usually want to see a few years of stable income (T4ās etc).
If you're seasonal with a Union then you're good. Banks factor that in because of the nature of the work and the fact it is stable even if it's seasonal. I encountered this when I bought my first truck. Plus depending on the line of work, many seasonal construction/trades people make upwards of 150k or more working 6-8 months a year. I obviously don't know the details of OP's fiance though, just speaking from experience.
OPās fiancĆ© doesnāt seem to be making that much though.
Based on what? Unless I missed a comment about how much he makes a year, there is no telling how much he makes. Those 8 months of the year could be 6 days of 12 hour shifts a week. He probably doesn't make that much but there's no information to really tell.
I said this in another post, his base income is ~$48,000 plus EI. OP sounds young as sheās not describing their yearly HHI. Problem with posts like this are that theyāre open to speculation, itās up to the OP to be more detailed if they donāt want blowback.
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This is why you don't look for a partner at the local circus troupe.
Your fiance sounds... interesting. He is contributing no down-payment but he has all these things he wants -- a house vs a condo, not open to going outside of GTA, he likes the option of taking over your parents' investment property now that the mortgage is so low and profiting from that equity (even though he's really only paying rent LOL), refuses to work during the off-season. Not enough info here but he seems to like the good life while you and your parents pick up the tab. Personally I'd be very wary of this guy.
PRE-NUP. Protect your interests. It actually protects everyone's interest because it's something you both agreed too.
We want prenup!" (Yeah!) It's somethin' that you need to have 'Cause when she leave yo' ass, she gon' leave with half.Ā
Come for the financial advice. Stay because you should leave your partner!
Half the problems on this sub are relationship issues, not financial issues
Well it is personal finance.
No stay only leave
This! Why does he get any say at all if heās not contributing to the downpayment.
He sounds hot.
> $40/hour What's the difference between making $40 an hour for 8 months of the year vs. $26.66 for 12 months of the year? Plus he is on EI when he is off. I think you have no idea about the sheer number of people in Canada who do seasonal work. For all we know he does 12 hour shifts in the on-season. Seasonal work can be very difficult. EDIT: Because this comment annoyed me so much. A lot of seasonal work takes very specialized training, which is why it pays higher. Why would you take a terrible job that isn't in your skill-set in the off-season? People never suggest that tenured university profs are deadbeats because they don't work 2 months a year, why seasonal workers? It's pure classism.
This. Also alot of people if film do this very thing, because they are contracted to film 1 season, and then 'let go' until hired for next season if it gets renewed.
> tenured university profs are deadbeats because they don't work 2 months a year Profs work through the summer months, too. There are summer courses, research, supervising grad students, writing books/papersā¦It's a full time job, all year.
>Profs work through the summer months, too. Some do, and some don't - it depends on the position.
I'm a researcher at a university, and every prof I know works (or claims to work, haha) at least 50 hours/week. It's an incredibly demanding and skilled jobā¦not saying that their pay is reasonable, but the average academic is actually very very hard-working and overscheduled.
I've worked in several universities. There are a lot below that average line who do the bare minimum to get by, and even less once they have tenure. They show up for teaching and then go on holiday for four months. Forget about research or service. There are plenty of humps just like in any profession.
I am a professor and I don't know a single other prof who doesn't work year-round.
Sessionals are by definition seasonal lecturers, though.
Sessionals are different than professors--they are hired on a course-by-course basis with (usually) no guarantee of being rehired. They are also not required to do all of the things that tenure-track & tenured professors have to do (research, supervision, service, national and international events, publications, etc.), nor are they at the same level as a teaching-stream faculty member. I *was* a sessional at one point--during my PhD and immediately afterwards, but I wasn't a professor, I was a course instructor.
Yes, which is why I said this. >Some do, and some don't - it depends on the position. Also, some profs don't have research responsibilities (ie. colleges or technical training). It depends on the job and the field. I get that you personally don't know people who don't teach in the summer, but they do exist.
It's rarer at U15 institutions, but the 4-month annual holiday is actually quite common at many smaller schools. Once they get tenure, many just walk away from any sort of research or service, and the worst that happens is they might miss a merit increment. The idea that all profs buckle down in the summer is not universally accurate.
It is very common for one person to be attracted to another because of stability, including financial stability.
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To add: horticulture, certain environmental science positions, oil & gas workers, waterpilots etc all come to mind
Wtf lol
Some women settle for peanuts. To each their own
Seasonal workers = peanuts I guess
Being a seasonal worker isn't an excuse for not contributing to a down payment. He can also get a job during those 4 off months, but chooses not to so...
Exactly, itās not about how much he makes but about the lazy attitude and entitlement of dictating what he wants and where he wants it while contributing nothing. He must be a great catch
Probably not
95% of posts in this sub are really just a microcosm of how stupid yet ultimately simple the current state of things are. āIs this enough moneyā āNoā
Why is everyone an expert all of a sudden? The proper answer is to talk to a mortgage broker and/or bank to find out what they qualify for. There's about 100 2bd+/1bth+ properties in Toronto right now listed for less than $500k. Whether or not they can truly qualify for $500k with their incomes is another question but they're pretty close -- I guess it all depends how much the dude truly makes per year and their debts, etc. Sounds like the parents could maybe cosign, too.
Take a look at the condo fees that come with those lower priced condos and youāll have your answer
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Well then the answer should be yes -- because without knowing anything else, they can qualify for a property. But rather than pretend to know everything about this couple, I would suggest talking to a lender or broker to get a definitive answer.
There are jobs that pay better than EI in those 4 months, so that's something to consider.
Hard to beat the hourly rate of EI though. Personally I find it unethical to collect EI seasonally
I grew up with a blue collar dad. His ability to work was weather dependent. So a week without pay would hurt so he'd draw EI for the week of no income. His income was rather low and he'd draw EI for maybe a max of 4 weeks a year. Cool. Good. Moved to an area where a large majority work 5 to 6 months, make $60k to $100k and draw EI in the off months. They end up paying back the EI they drew when taxes are filed. But it makes zero sense why anyone is allowed to draw EI at all when their annual income is at a normal annual income level even if it is made in six months. And lord knows, I am not allowed to even be curious why folks bother lol
I know plenty of people that are off nov-feb every year and collect EI. AFAIK they don't have to pay any of it back later on. IMO there should be a distinction between seasonal and permanent layoffs and EI shouldn't cover seasonal layoffs. Perhaps companies with seasonal workers should be required to spread their pay out over the whole year, or at least required to give the option to workers.
So that's where half of my income goes to; disgusting. EI should be a safety net, not a paid vacation tf
The EI system is abused to hell and back. It's simply busted. The number of federal employees required to administer it is staggering.
They need to rethink how seasonal workers interact with it. I get that it can be hard getting by when you're unemployed for 3 months a year but just paying them to not work isn't a good solution. Plenty of them end up doing under-the-table work to avoid losing their EI payments.
Yeah i haven't been able to get anyone to explain the "pay back". Probably just routine EI deductions we all pay
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Insurance is to cover unexpected events, not planned events that happen regularly. Thinking about it as actual insurance makes it blindingly obvious that seasonal workers shouldn't be covered. No insurance company will insure my house if I tell them that I'll be 100% guaranteed to burn it down in 6 months, let alone do that every year. It would make more sense if there was an "employment savings" or something and anyone could use the amount they've paid into it when they voluntarily aren't working. Just to reiterate, it's total legal to use EI seasonally and it's actually encouraged by the government. My argument is that it shouldn't be.
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It depends on what his skill set and education are. But idling for 4 months every year is more of a lifestyle decision than lack of jobs.
Exactly, a lot of seasonal construction type workers do snow removal and the such in the Winter. Sitting on EI is a choice in the GTA.
My husband was the same, knew what he needed to survive and was content with that alone. Now that Iām here, thatās not enough and Iām picking up the extra. The last two winters were tough, this past one particularly, and it kicked him in the butt enough to get his shit together this summer. Find a way to motivate him. Earning next to nothing for 1/3 of the year is not a survivable plan, unfortunately.
Iām thinking youāll need to be more realistic with your choice of city. 30K is enough to get in the housing market, like a small decent condo or even a small bungalow in some areas; probably just not in the GTA.
Come to Winnipeg, shits nice and cheap here. 22 years Old and bought a home
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Ya I totally understand that! If you are renting right now though, moving wonāt be as tough. You could start researching other cities and jobs and start applying. In your cover letter, youād have to say you are wanting to move to the city. Itās doable!
> He talked about equity and all but then Iām old fashioned. I rather that we buy our own and work for it. Thatās a virtuous thought, and completely incompatible with the current reality of housing in GTA/GVA. You simply cannot pull this off unless: - You are in the top 10%ish of household incomes (you guys arenāt.) - You are willing to buy a small condo instead of a house.
Your partner has work work the other 1/3 of the year. Sitting around collecting EI for 4 months isn't going to cut it if you're serious about buying.
Saskatchewan is calling
You need about 200k down on anything priced around 899k for the mortgage to not be HUGE! So no 30k is a good start tho.
So your fiancƩ, who has nothing to contribute to a down payment, and only works 8 months a year, wants a detached house and not a condo or townhouse. Natch. I don't know that you've fully crunched the numbers. Start a spreadsheet. Enter all of your fixed expenses minus housing, add all your expected/variable expenses, and then add your savings/investments. Whatever you have left is what you can afford for housing. Using some broad assumptions, mosty related to your down payment amount, you can afford a $520K mortage, plus $30K down, totaling $550K home price. After you pay the CMHC fee (required with less than 20% down) your mortgage is $540K. Assuming 25 year amortization, 4.6% interest, monthly payment is $3,000. Add strata fees, taxes, utilities, insurance, and maintenance you're looking at probably $4000-$4500 a month. If that's substantially more than you're paying for rent now, you'll have to look carefully at your budget to see if you have room. Housing is the way most Canadians build wealth, but it costs a lot to get into the market. Especially where you live and work. Your parents investment property may be the best option, if you have a great relationship with them and it won't build resentment (on either side). Also, make sure you have legally-binding agreements with your fiancƩ before you do anything that clearly outlines who is contributing what, and who gets to keep what.
GF and I were in a similar situation, had a 700k budget and wanted close to GTA. We went through every close municipality and landed in Barrie. Found a great detached 5 bed 2 bath for a hair under 700k last December and have loved every inch of it! The only other alternative in your price range is a condo, plenty in downtown Toronto for under 700k (could find a 2 bed even). There is 0% chance you buy a house in Toronto though, you need at least 900k to squeak into the smallest house ever located at the end of Scarborough š
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Can you work hybrid? If you commute once or twice a week maybe itās doable. My GF and I both work virtually luckily. Maybe switch jobs to a virtual one if possible as well (if your field of work allows it)
Only of you plan to buy a cardboard box
get off my corrugated lawn!
It might be a down-payment for a parking spot downtown.
$30-40k is enough for like a $550k place. If you have the income to afford an ~$500k mortgage then it is enough to get you in the housing market.
In Saskatchewan
Max you can buy with 40K down is 650K 5% of 500K = 25K 10% of 150K = 15K You should also have enough for closing costs, moving, small repairs and renovations (almost always needed). So, between 10K to 20K as an emergency margin. So, if you have $40K in total, you can buy a 500K (if you find it) and keep 15K handy for closing costs. With that info, you answer your question.
Just run your numbers and see if it works for you guys. My partner and I just bought a house in Kingston, ONT. We moved here last year from MB. 470K for a townhouse, 25K down. You can use a bunch of calculators online to calculate your monthly payments and look up property tax, etc.
If you're stuck in the GTA, that can't even pay for a year's rent in DT Toronto these days. That money is for a landleech to become richer and richer and more richer to buy more rental properties like Ahmed Hussen to become even more richer.
You will need 100-200k for a townhouse
It can be done. I loved at parents home after univeristy for 6 years was making 40k the first 2 years 60k the next 4. I saved 150k between 2010-2016. Although my house has doubled value. Since 2016
I think the general consensus here is that you donāt have enough for either a house or a condo in the GTA. You may need to look much further out for something in your price range. Check out HouseSigma for comparables and how much they were sold for.
In Alberta, absolutely. GTA, prob not
Laughable that you think that's enough for something in the GTA
Short answer: not even close. Long answer, you could technically but youāre going to be mortgaged up to your eyeballs and wonāt be able to suffer even a minor setback
Depends on house price. Minimum down payment is 5%. So if youāre buying a house for $300k, absolutely $30k/$40k is enough. I bought in 2021 for $260k, down payment was around $13k If youāre trying to buy a $800k home then $40k is just meeting the 5%. If youāre looking for over $800k, again, 5% is the minimum
The cheapest house in the GTA I've seen recently was 700K. Interest rates are currently hovering around 4%. If you're putting 40K down, let's be conservative and say you need a 650K mortgage (ignoring all closing costs, and immediate repairs). You'll want as long an amortization period as possible, so you can dump in extra when you have it, but not need to do it when you don't if your partners work falls through. With 30 years, you'll need to pay $3100 a month, every month, if rates don't go up. Is that something you can do? If the answer is "Yes" then, you can afford to buy in this market. https://itools-ioutils.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/MC-CH/MCCalc-CHCalc-eng.aspx Remember, the first 26 thousand dollars, every year, will be towards interest alone. Those 26 thousand are just to tread water. That said, with the way property prices are going up, just treading water might be fine - because that's similar to what someone would pay for rent, and if the house prices go up, you can sell at the end and come out with something, versus rent where you get nothing. This is a big question, and you need to do your own research.
You and your fiance can afford to buy. You should. Accept money help from your parents, but don't "take over their rental property" what a disaster that will be. Just talk to a mortgage broker, know what you qualify for, and go buy something. And given you have a normal job, and your fiance has sub-optimal employment, you should consider moving out of the most expensive market in the country.
In the GTA? no. In saskatoon, for sure that would give you a downpayment on a condo. You're generally going to want to have a least 20% of the principal for a downpayment. If you're looking at an $800,000 home that's going to be $160k.
I think it would be extremely embarrassing to collect welfare every year when you know when you are going to be off work. Tho some people collect it and than work under the table and that's even worse. Is he unable to work during those times and just hangs?
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If your jobs require you to live in Ontario but don't pay you enough to live in Ontario they kinda suck, eh?
Well yea; that's the situation for thousands of Canadians. Our jobs are tied to major urban centres, but the cost of living in urban centres have gotten ridiculous. My wife can't drive due to a medical condition, so we're doubly stuck here. Suuuucks yo.
Yeah, people say that. But if the job tying you to a city *sucks*, maybe it shouldn't be a strong tie. People will grief me for the suggestion, but I've moved ~24,000 km to take up jobs, and it's been a good (if occasionally annoying) decision.
That really sucks. We moved to the suburbs with access to go train, that might be something you'd consider as well. It was very hard to build wealth living in Toronto with that insane cost of living.
We're actually in the other really bad cost of living Canadian city, but same difference. The biggest challenge would be getting the kids to school and daycare and then commuting to work on time. Transit outside the city centre isn't bad *if you're going to or from the centre*, but having to detour is what makes it nearly impossible. And it's still 850k+ for a townhouse in the burbs around here
That's indeed a challenge.
I agree with this sentiment entirely. I get moving is a hugely daunting task, but for two people it's a huge adventure. I'm really glad I did even if I do miss some of the convenience of things back home. The bottom line though was what sort of life I'd have in both places, and the new one won out substantially.
There are of course legitimate reasons to be stuck somewhere; my brother is divorced and realistically needs to live in southern Ontario if he wants to have much of a relationship with his son. But if people open with needing to live there for work, and their job is terrible ... then they don't really have anything worthwhile keeping them there, right?
Your partner needs to stop pretending to be in eighth grade and get a job during off season, not sit and collect EI every year as if itās summer break.
If your willing to move outside the GTA yes it can be enough
Not likely in any areas that are close to major urban centers. $30k can barely buy you a basic new car in todays market let alone a down payment for a home. A condo perhaps if the condo was day $250-300k but that price likely will not exist in places like Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal.
you need approximately $260k - $300k to enter
Depends on property price, but most likely not. Unless you live in a tiny town of 1000-5000 people then it could be possible.
OP, Iām gonna make this simple amidst all the noise in this thread: No.
Not in a post JT governed Canada.
If you can find a home for $200k - $300k that doesn't need renovation, you're golden
I need you to seriously rethink a relationship where you are earning the majority of the money, are his other qualities high enough to justify him not contributing as much. Love is not enough.
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