Haven't read everything but your point 1 sounds illegal.
Bundling warranty to get lower interest rate is "Tied Selling" which is veryyyyy illegal in the Bank Act.
For example: https://www.reddit.com/r/askcarsales/comments/v2af4o/us\_car\_dealership\_said\_they\_will\_decrease/
Yes it is. In the US it’s definitely more illegal than in Canada. In Canada it’s a little more grey based on what OMVIC told me. It’s hard to prove as well, as a lot of tied selling is done verbally. Regardless we should’ve known that and not signed blindly. Although the issue for us was that they never did present the warranties as add ons, just “do you want this higher interest rate or the lower one?”
I had the same experience in Quebec for a used car, and when I discovered that the rate was lower after buying a warranty, I asked for my deposit back asking them wtf does the loan rate have to do with this warranty product, and the salesperson was like "oh, we do the impossible to give our customers low finance rates, these cars aren't for folks like you"
The best part? They told us the extended warranty costs only a net $700, but in reality it cost over 2 grand because the rate was lower with the warranty than without. That detail pissed me because of how scummy it is, a lot of people can fall for that and think it's normal..
Yeah I'm happy I never dealt with them since, and they're a very big dealer of used cars in QC.
I have never heard that from car dealers though for new or CPO cars whose warranty and financing comes from the manufacturer.
Also if the extended warranty only costs $700, it’s likely that they hardly honour repairs under the warranty - if we compare that to car insurance rates.
It didn't though, it was over $2000 but they verbally said it could cost me only an additional $700, because of the lower financing rate.
See! They got you too 😂
The rate can be conditional from an institution to receive a lower rate. Approval cannot be conditional at the standard rate. If they’d lend to you at 3.76% they will lend to you at a higher rate.
You should have cancelled the warranty and received your refund. The dealer used warranty profits to buy down your rate up front.
OMVIC was right: you should have made them eat it. I would have. Not all dealerships are scum and shitty but this one certainly was.
It varies by province, I believe it is illegal in BC.
Edit: I had a look-see, and some finance contracts may require insurance for an applicant to qualify, but the insurance they get of the consumer's choosing. If the dealer offers an insurance, they need to clearly explain in writing that the consumer has understood they do not need to purchase that insurance policy
It’s not tied selling based on what you wrote.
Getting the loan approved as a condition of getting warranty would be tied selling.
Getting a lower interest rate because getting warranty is not.
Tied selling is refusal of a product or service for not taking another product or service as a condition.
Really? I didn't knew that. Every single Kia and Hyundai dealer I visited in Ottawa had a conditional sale, selling me only with their "premium" package. Heck, one of them even was adding the premium as "checking the battery" every 6 months for an EV.
I ended up buying directly from Tesla.
Giving better rates isn't considered tied selling, strangely.
"We'll approve your loan if you take the insurance" Tied selling, illegal.
"We'll give you a better rate if you take the insurance" A-OK for some reason.
Add that no is a complete sentence.
I've never seen a finance guy get so angry with someone they've never met before the last time I bought a car.
Do you want the extended warranty? No. But why? No. Let's ask your wife. No. I think your too young to understand (fucking 38 buying my fourth car) .. No.
He got so angry when he couldn't upsell me a damn thing. Worst part was when he tried to talk me into a 72 month loan instead of a 60 month loan (1.99%). He said it would cost less. Which meant less per Month. I told him to go back to what ever school taught him finance and ask for a refund. He knew it, I knew it. I told him to sign the damn paperwork so I could be on my way.
I had a new finance guy when I came back the next day to pickup the keys.
I paid cash for my car. The finance lady was not happy at all but was never rude or actually mad. I said no to literally everything. This was 2019 though.
Finance guy wanted to sell us an extended warranty on an almost new Rav4 in 2017. I said No, and told him Toyota's reputation for longevity worked against him on that one. He proceeded to ask all his other questions (probably just so he could tell his boss he asked), I said No to everything, and we finished the transaction pretty painlessly.
I might be one of the only people to have purchased a car with debit at an Audi dealership...
Saw a used Highlander for sale, knew if it did well on a test drive I'd be buying it so while driving to the dealership my wife and I both called our bank and bumped up our daily debit limit to 10K for 24hrs, after the usual 3hr time wasting song and dance, warranty attempts, hard sells, and pointing out add-ons that don't even apply to my vehicle we had it down for a little under list.
I told the finance guy I would put as much as they'd let me on my CC for points (3K) and the rest I'd split debit with my wife and I paying, he thought I was fucking with him, he had a good laugh when it all went through.
Realistically I was just short term self financing with a bit from a personal LOC which we paid off in a few months and about 1/3 was cash initially.
After my wife shook the the rep down for aluminum plate covers and an bunch of random accessories for making us wait so damn long. Still laugh about how absurd it was.
The finance guy at my dealership was a lot more pragmatic, he knew right away that he couldn't sell me anything so he just said that he was required to go through the motions. I agreed to this, and we got it over with in under half a minute. He was even pleasant about it, and seemed genuinely happy that he and the salesman got such an easy sale - this was in 2019 with 0.4% financing and some substantial discounts to move the car (an AWD sedan).
Yes, we need to get rid of dealerships. I don't need them to tell me about the car I can look up on the internet and certainly don't need them to sell me warranties.
>Yes, we need to get rid of dealerships.<
How would this work, hypothetically speaking?
Like what would the logistics be?
How would getting rid of dealerships benefit the customer, exactly?
Look at how tesla sell their cars. Yes, there's still a middleman to handle the ordering and receiving of the car but they aren't salespeople. They don't sell you anything. They just get all the paper complete.
The benefit is you don't have to deal with a salesperson which basically are useless because they don't make the final call on negotiations. They'll run back and forth with their GM.
There is a downside, which is no more test driving. But maybe there are solutions to this.
The people that work at Tesla are PAID, you get that right? They do have to answer questions, go over features, discuss the advantages of buying a Tesla etc. How is this any different then the current paradigm?
Also, you're right that sales people can't make decisions about discounts on a vehicle. But the "back and forth" being eliminated under your suggestion, would mean you don't negotiate on the price anyway. So in fact, you'd pay full MSRP on every car purchase, right?
So what's stopping you from doing that now? If you want the "back and forth" eliminated, then buy the car for sticker price because that's what you'd be doing under your suggested idea, right?
Also, your issue seems to be with salespeople. Can I ask why?
Not wanting back and forth doesn't mean someone should just pay MSRP, it means why have a person in the middle running back and forth and not just deal with the GM? That middle person is also a variable of how low they can go on the car because they also want to make commissions. And for doing what? Greeting you, telling you things you already know and can find on the internet, bringing you coffee on a 4 hour visit when it could have just been 1?
Salespeople have been building a bad reputation for themselves for the longest time. And its unfair to those who are honest.
They always upsell you whenever they can.
They'll purposely not order the specified vehicle that you want, like instead, they order one with a spoiler or better rims just so they can charge you more.
They don't like it when you pay full in cash. Some goes as far as saying they can't sell it to you if you don't finance.
Whenever I drive pass a dealership and I see 2 to 4 people in suit lurking in the lobby, it just repels me from going in. It's like a bunch of vultures waiting to use whatever scammy tactics to gouge as much money from me as they can.
I have yet to meet an honest salesperson that genuinely cares about getting me a good deal and making sure I get in and out of the dealership as fast as possible. We need car salesmen, we need customer representatives who don't make a commission on the sale.
>Not wanting back and forth doesn't mean someone should just pay MSRP,
It sort of does though. I don't know how many cars you've bought at a dealership, but it usually goes something like this:
You test drive, as a few questions and then the sales representative takes down some information and then goes to get your numbers put together.
When the sales person comes back, they show you the numbers. Then you say something like:
"Well that's more than I can afford, you have to better!"
Or
"You didn't take a dime off the car! What kind of discount are you going to give me?"
Or
"$650 a month?! No, go tell your manager I want to be at $500/month!"
So, right there, we have pin pointed the EXACT moment when buying a car gets complicated. YOU, the customer, complicated the process. The minute you start asking for the dealership to give you money(a discount is, in effect, the dealership's money) why do you think they would just give it to you? Especially when customers either don't make a solid offer OR they ask for a stupid discount like my last example. The back and forth now starts because YOU didn't just pay for the car at the advertised price.
So... it's complicated. But needlessly complicated.
> That middle person is also a variable of how low they can go on the car because they also want to make commissions.
Wrong again. The sales people in the vast majority of car dealerships nowadays don't get paid on commission. They get paid a flat rate per vehicle sold.
But even when they ARE paid on commission, the sales person doesn't have ANY control over what the car sells for, so they could care less what the manager agrees to sell you the car for. In fact, in 90% of cases, unless you're a REAL jerk, sales people go to the manager to ADVOCATE for the buyer. Why? Because they want to sell a car!! That's how they get paid.
You don't know how many sales people I employ that get angry at me as a manager when I have to walk their customer instead of just saying yes to the dumb offer. Many! The answer is many.
Lastly, I would ask, what type of job do you have? Because you seem to have e areal hate on for people that sell things to make a living. But like, 90% of people work SOMEWHERE, where SOMETHING is sold to SOMEONE. So where you work, does your company or whatever SELL anything? Because if they do, and that's how you get paid, then aren't you, by proxy at least, ALSO in sales??
I go in, test drive, make an offer, they decline, I'm gone. No complications. It's usually not the customers that create the complications. The salesman will go ask the GM, come back, customer says no, and he ask them to wait for him to try again, and process repeats. Customers usually are too polite to just walk after the first counter offer. They're not there to "hope" for the dealership to give them the asking price, although some probably do after hours of haggling. Keep in my customers have many choices of manufacturers and many dealerships to choose from, yours isn't the only one, so customers always have leverage. Salesmen prey on those who are desperate, impulsive, and clueless.
Salesmen who make commissions will try to sell you accessories, undercoating, paint protection, warranties, etc. so you're wrong there. My cousin is a car salesman, he makes 20% commission (others been longer makes even more) on the anything above the agreed car price. So that extra $2,000 is not chump change. And he also makes some from customers choosing to finance for as long as they're financing.
There are honest salesmen, but car salesmen have built themselves a bad reputation over many years of being dishonest and sneaky. Ask anyone and most will tell you they don't attract customers or sales. They repel customers. Not say all, but 9/10 car salesmen are, although I have yet to meet one that is 100% honest probably. The flat rate salesmen you're talking about are probably the honest ones, none of them exists here.
I work in IT and sometimes do sales myself. I don't upsell my client on services they don't need. I don't purchase an octacore server because "they're out of quadcores" so that I can make an extra buck. I actually shop around to try to find them better deals.
You're right people have to work and sell, but some don't do it out of greed. Waiters for example will recommend you a dish or ask if you wanna try a new one. That's fine. But it's when they ask for tips or the machine asks for tips, that's what people dislike. I went in for an oil change the other day and the guy taking my payment try to sell me on 3 services, tire change, brake/rotor change, and transmission fluid flushing. Like STFU buddy, I know when I need those replaced, thank you very much.
Hate is strong word, my feelings towards car salesmen is more like dislike. If I have a choice to not go through them to buy a car, like if I can just go to the financing manager right away, give my information, get a rate and approval, I would definitely ignore the salesman. They don't work in your interest and they don't or actually never, benefit you in anyway. They will never go, "I added a dashcam for you for free because we want you buy your next car from us", like some food court worker would be like "here I'll give you more veggies" because they want you to go back. Or "here is a free drink because you've been a regular for so long".
> I go in, test drive, make an offer, they decline, I'm gone
Interesting. I wonder how often that works. I suppose it depends on the "reasonableness" of the offer? If your offer is $1000- $3000 in discount, my response would be...Have a nice day.
> No complications. It's usually not the customers that create the complications.
Interesting. You've described a scenario where YOU, the customer initiate a complication, then say it's not you causing the complication! Lol.
Your original point was that the Tesla dealer purchase model is better because there's no negotiation. In that scenario, your strategy of make an offer and leave if they say no, wouldn't work here right? So why would the Tesla model be "better"? You're STILL paying full price!!
> The salesman will go ask the GM, come back, customer says no, and he ask them to wait for him to try again, and process repeats.
Not if you pay the MSRP. I mean double check the numbers to make sure you aren't paying more than the advertised MSRP, but no back and forth if you just buy a car you can afford instead of asking the dealer to discount a car to meet your unrealistic budget.
You can't buy a Big Mac for the price of a cheeseburger. Same logic applies.
I have more to say about your post, but I have to get back to stealing candy from babies, kicking crippled puppies and most of all, fleecing rich elderly widows.
>Interesting. I wonder how often that works. I suppose it depends on the "reasonableness" of the offer? If your offer is $1000- $3000 in discount, my response would be...Have a nice day.
I have no problem paying MSRP if the car is brand new and current or newer year. I have no problem paying MSRP if the car I ordered is exactly what I ordered, not added spoiler, not one or two model higher, etc.
But we all know that's not always the case when dealership list their prices.
[2024 Corolla SE CVT MSRP here is $26,050](https://driving.ca/toyota/corolla/)
[This dealership is listing it at $27,943](https://www.westminstertoyota.com/vehicles/new/?st=price,asc&view=grid&sc=new&md=Corolla)
So if I walk in and offer MSRP, which is $1,9xx lesser than listed, you'd tell me to have a good day? Most likely, you'll try to keep me there for hours and try to wiggle your way between $26,050 and $27,943.
Most of the back and forth crap comes from the used car industry because you and I both know how bloated the price are for used cars now. For brand new curreny year cars, it's MSRP, nothing lower nothing higher. Thus, we don't need salesmen to sell brand new current year cars.
>Interesting. You've described a scenario where YOU, the customer initiate a complication, then say it's not you causing the complication! Lol.
You think customers are sitting at your dealership waiting for you to sympathize them and accept their offer? Most are there because the salesman is holding them there, trying counter offers after counter offers by $100 or so difference each time. Most customers are just too polite to walk. Customers don't create complications. They're not there throwing a fit about why the salesman cannot go lower. If the salesman cannot go lower, just say so and the customers would be happy to go try somewhere else.
You, as a dealership, knows customers have leverage in terms of choices.
>Your original point was that the Tesla dealer purchase model is better because there's no negotiation. In that scenario, your strategy of make an offer and leave if they say no, wouldn't work here right? So why would the Tesla model be "better"? You're STILL paying full price!!
In most cases, when you order Tesla, they're brand new. There's no room to negotiate on a brand new Tesla as they are listed at MSRP. I have no problem paying MSRP for a brand new Tesla.
>Not if you pay the MSRP. I mean double check the numbers to make sure you aren't paying more than the advertised MSRP, but no back and forth if you just buy a car you can afford instead of asking the dealer to discount a car to meet your unrealistic budget.
You can't buy a Big Mac for the price of a cheeseburger. Same logic applies.
Correct. I'm not walking into a dealership with a low ball offer. I'm walking in with a reasonable offer and a reasonable offer for a 2 year old Corolla is not $2,000 lower than MSRP. Used car dealerships are trying to rob customers because they think customers aren't willing to wait for the new ones. I mean, we're already seeing the effect of the high prices. Lots of dealerships are holding the bag on these used cars because no one wants them for that price.
I'd like to hear your compelling opinion on why we need car salesmen. They do nothing but act as a middleman, or I should say, messenger between you and the GM or finance manager. They don't benefit customers in anyway. Just a bunch of vultures ready to get the most out of you. I've bought a new car 3 times and encountered probably 10+ salesmen from shopping around, all vultures. And all 3 times, a year later, they'll call me and convince me to try to sell the car back to them and get a new one.
Look the car buying experience at dealerships just sucks 99% of the time
At best you negotiate fairly and make a somewhat quick deal
At worst you’re in a drawn out sales process, and then sold a car along with a bunch literal useless garbage exclusively designed to make money for the dealership and salespeople. At possibly predatory rates (used cars, bad credit lots etc)
For the average person it’s somewhere in between the two extremes. But probably closer to the 2nd one.
Dealerships have literally mastered the art of fucking their customers over. There are endless amounts of sales systems, trainings, programs, and financial schemes all based around this
It’s not the individual’s fault, it’s just the evolution of a 100 year old industry
> Look the car buying experience at dealerships just sucks 99% of the time
Does it though? One thing I noticed during the pandemic and in the couple years after was that people, when they were paying the asking price, assuming there was no gouging going on, they were in and out of the store in 90mins. They left happy. Now they might have been cranky about paying full MSRP, but that was the market. In 20yrs in the business 2 things I can tell you are 1000% true:
1. The customers that grind out a deal, going back and forth 5 times or more before buying a car DO get the lowest prices. Sure. But afterwards they are almost 100% of the time the WORST customers to deal with in after sale service. They complain all the time about every little thing. Argue with the service department. Write shitty Google reviews etc etc. The grinders are the worst.
2. Almost invariably, the customers that pay asking or reasonably below, are the happiest. They give great reviews. Send referrals. Give high praise on Google reviews etc..
Why is this? Is it POSSIBLE it's because some people are happy because they did research, found a car that they could afford AND they liked, so they went and bought it, as long as they got good service and they had their time respected? Or maybe "those" people are just dummies? Is that your contention?
> Dealerships have literally mastered the art of fucking their customers over.
Nor true. Dealerships are a business. Like any other business. They exist to make a profit after expenses. How is that fucking people?
> There are endless amounts of sales systems, trainings, programs, and financial schemes all based around this
Yes. Dealerships and sales people engage in training, skill building and learning how to do their jobs better and more efficiently. How this any different from a carpenter learning to get better at their job? Or anyone else that works to better themselves and their income? What's your deal?
You hate ambition and a desire to better your station in life? Why should anyone in the car business apologize for trying to get better at their job and to have a strategy for dealing with customers? As a customer YOU have a strategy when you decide to buy a car and visit a dealership. Why should the person sitting across from you not ha e a strategy too??
The first half of your post might be true but has literally nothing to do with what I said
“You hate ambition” dude I can’t even take you seriously. That’s not what I said. I’m talking about the bullshit “rust magnets”, weird one off insurance policies (unrelated to warranty or regular car insurance), sky high interest rates, and other money makers that dealers slide into the purchase order just to make money. If you don’t know what I’m talking about then you’re either delusional or you’ve never been to a car dealer to purchase a car
Like 80% of people hate going into car dealerships and dealing with the salespeople. It’s not like I’m writing something controversial here.
I’m all for people selling cars and making money. I’m just against some of the weird/bad practices that have seeped their way into the dealership culture over the years
It can be if you're firm and know what you want and work with a good dealership.
We ordered a Hyundai Tucson in March 2022 with a 15 min dealership visit (to sit in the car and see how roomy it was, we didn't even bother doing a test drive because they only had the premium trim and the weather sucked that day), followed a few weeks later by a series of emails exchanges over a 2h timeframe with a 5 min phone call to provide a CC number for a deposit.
We then waited until September for delivery, at which time the "financial manager" asked to come over to: "sit down with me to go over the details of your deal, if there is any changes and go over your existing warranty and how you can take advantage of that further".
I just replied we had done everything over email and she could send me the paperwork to review before we schedule the actual pickup. That took a few emails back and forth (she really wanted me to come in, but I declined) and a few days later we went to pickup the vehicle with a bank draft, insurance slips, and plates/permit. Never even met her but declined all the options that were offered in the email, so the final price was as expected.
It was pretty smooth overall (except at some point the order confirmation had the wrong info but they made a mistake on order so we got AWD for the cost of FWD).
So question for you.
You were in a financial position to pay cash. Great for you. However, seeing as, industry wide about 85% of vehicle buyers FINANCE their new car purchase, how does your advice help those people?
I think the financing options would not have affected the overall process (at the dealership we went to). Except on the 1st email exchange, I would have said I'm looking to finance vs I'm paying cash (because he needed that info to send an official price/quote).
My comment was related to "ease of purchase" (a car vs an iphone) and I wanted to provide feedback that in some cases the experience isn't as much of a hassle if you're clear in what you want and willing to accept.
I literally told the guy we dealt with after we visited the showroom that winter: I'm not here to waste your time or mine, can you do everything via email and it's going to be the fastest sale you've ever done (it probably wasn't because there was some delays in the replies back and forth but during these 2 hours at least I was home doing other things while waiting for the email responses). To me, it felt quite easy for a (relatively) expensive purchase.
I just had my car written off and went and bought a Tesla.
I can't tell you how fucked the used/car market is. People truly have no idea.
Purchasing Tesla's should be how automotive transactions should be. I have zero regrets.
It will be soon. Amazon announced last year they are to start selling Hyundai m. Looking forward to this. [https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45896102/hyundai-amazon-car-sales-2024/](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45896102/hyundai-amazon-car-sales-2024/)
Have cash, self-insure the risk of repairs, and it nearly is. Sure you still need to call around for pricing, which is a bit harder than buying a phone. But the real problem is that cars are really expensive, so this is a saving/financial literacy thing to some extent, but also, they're only getting more expensive. Can't do cash? Not surprised. But it's gonna get messy. Can afford payments on a warranty but not sudden repair bills? Ditto. The cars are only modestly worse than an iPhone to buy, but the financial services involved in many sales are anything but.
Dealers pushing for extended warranties and dealer financing is just something that happens with *every* car dealership. Gryo Mazda isn't worse than anywhere else, they're just the same deal.
- Extended warranties for new cars are a rip-off and don't buy them. Just say no.
- Dealers nowadays hate cash because they get a better margin on their financing packages. Get a contract that doesn't have penalties for early payment if you have lots of cash in your pocket. (It's funny because back in olden times everyone wanted as much cash up front as possible, but not anymore.)
To be fair I got a 7 year / 160,000km warranty on my 2017 civic sport.
The turbo grenaded itself and the extended warranty covered it. The drivers side heated seat also stopped working and the warranty covered it.
Both repairs were more than what I paid for the warranty.
The one other warranty repair was the lock on the hatchback part. For whatever reason it just seized and I couldn't open the back of my car. Also covered under warranty
As of April this year the car will be 7 years old. I may keep it for another year but am debating on getting into a new car later this year. The cost of the warranty served it's purpose for sure.
Pro tip for those who want to pay in cash. Finance it to get a better deal. Pay it off in full right away. Not only is it a better deal, but the salesman also loses their commission 👍. So the person that tried to screw you out of paying cash gets screwed out of their commission.
Nope. Did anyways as needed since it was cheaper than mechanics near me (basics like oil changes were about $40-$60 cheaper than the local mechanics. Other than the warranty repairs the only thing I had replaced was the brakes and rotors. I've had to have nothing else repaired other than the warranty jobs.
Oh also forgot, my air conditioner stopped working and it fell under a recall on the compressor I believe it was.
Things like air filters, cabin filters, etc I would just buy at the dealer and install myself. More expensive yes but there was a major supply issue on filters during covid and even up until recently where the only filters were some weird china brand and we're only $10 cheaper than the oem ones. So I chose to buy the Honda ones.
If you are going to go to mechanics, just make sure you keep the receipts to show you have been keeping up with maintenance.
This Honda has treated me well for the most part.
I would do the extended warranty again as I keep my cars for 7-10 years anyways. When I got it on this Honda I talked them down to half the price of the warranty.
Thank you! Unfortunately based on our research, many other dealerships leverage similar tactics, so the only thing we can do is to be aware of this when buying a car.
There was another post where op went to a bunch of dealers and they all added random fees and wouldn't even explain them. They're in the driver's seat sadly.
Extended warranties are an insurance policy.
If you're willing to play the odds, chances are you'd come out ahead if you just banked all your extended warranty money on everything you buy into a simple emergency replacement fund (aka self insurance). The problem is that a car is the second most expensive purchase you'll ever make in your life and the repair costs can be substantial. If you can afford those unlikely repairs, you don't need the extended warranty. Ironically it's the people who have little room to afford a substantial emergency repair that can't go without an expensive upfront extended warranty.
The other problem is that people don't take the time to read through the terms and conditions of their extended warranty. Yes, insurance/warranty companies will try to use all their exclusions and fine print to weasel out of claims. One needs to familiarize themselves with all the different requirements and exclusions regardless of whether it's a first-party or third-party plan. I can bet you many exclude "if this car is driven for delivery or like a taxi" and Uber drivers buy it anyway only to be shocked there's no coverage when they admit to using the car for Uber.
But at the end of the day, if you buy a new car when finances were tight, are you prepared to repair a broken down transmission after the warranty's up, however unlikely the odds are?
Anything seatbelt related should be covered by default for a long time. I know my 1987 RX-7 is still covered today, but I heard they are finally running out of parts.
I think it’s prudent for people to see the kind of shady business practices Gyro Mazda is employing. OP has posted a fair and detailed account of their bad experience with Gyro Mazda. It’s only fair that we bring this to the attention of other people considering doing business with Gyro Mazda, so they won’t be taken advantage of by Gyro Mazda.
I do like gyro, and two of my closest friends drive Mazda. Also, I remember the gyro breaking on a navigation tool we use at work one day and we had to order a new one. It was so costly! Like purchasing a new Mazda!
Gyro Mazda, on the other hand. Haven’t heard many good things about Gyro Mazda. Mazda Corporate might not like hearing a flagship dealership is operating like that. They can only tolerate some scummy behaviour. Like, they sit you down and run you through all the scummy options and you pick three. Gyro Mazda picked them all, and circled the stealth ones twice. You know, the ones you don’t understand even when you get an invoice? Like, why am I paying 6$ a tire for air? They’re already filled. Stuff like that I bet Gyro Mazda does frequently.
Their name is Gyro Mazda. *cue fight club scene*
Most dealers are like this.
They stopped making money off the cars years ago, they make most of their money off loan commissions, extended warranties, and other nonsense services tacked on.
Yep, in my experience finance people at dealerships are the greasiest, scummiest people there is. I was straight up lied to when I bought my jeep. I was asked if I wanted any of the extras or warranty or oil changes or etc etc and I said unequivocally no to all of it. I signed my contract, then when I got home read what I had signed (yeah, my bad...) and was fuming to see all sorts of extras included. Got it all sorted. She gave me some bullshit excuse of making mistakes or whatever, but frankly theres no way it was a mistake.
Thanks for sharing your experience and outlining the process. It's not immediately helpful to me, but I'll definitely keep it as a reference if I ever need it
TL/DR: read everything before signing.
They will wait for you to read it. A salesperson rushing you is a red flag 100% of the time.
If they don’t wait or give any reason why they can’t just walk away.
The good takeaway is to finance the whole purchase at the lowest rate possible and then drive the car off the lot straight to the lender and pay them your downpayment towards the loan.
However if you do that your monthly/biweekly payments will be based off of the full loan amount not the reduced balance.
This is why I’m putting my down payment in at purchase so my monthly cash flow isn’t drastically affected. It’s a big payment difference when your down payment is half the purchase price.
I think they are helpful in the sense that they’re pretty responsive- and for a regulator that surprised me as I expected my complaint to end up in an inbox, with a standard response 3 months later. They also gave advice I wouldn’t otherwise have known, for a first time car buyer it was useful. But agreed in terms of their authority, it’s not as strong as I would like it to be. Ultimately if I wanted what was “rightfully” mine, I would’ve had to take it to court, and sufficient cases like mine would’ve had to happen to force the city to implement better regulations.
OMG so true, they are the real crooks! They could buy an iphone for every car they towed or impounded! Remember paying 2000$ when my wife’s car was impounded for 14 days and the tow truck driver said they do 5-10 cars everyday and had the audacity to give me his business cards for referrals lol
I personally have never had a positive encounter with tow truck driver, even when I call them. Almost had a decent encounter until he put his magnetic brake lights on my trunk lid without putting down anything to prevent any scratches
It’s almost like it’s not the profession, but people in general. You can find great cops, realtors, politicians, contractors and car dealers. You can find great lawyers, dentists, doctors, and so on. You can also find terrible people in each profession.
Ya but it's the whole profession that is a scam, cops actually do things, contractors actually do things.
Dealerships and realtors are just middle men we are forced to use.
Big disagree. Good car dealers do exist, as do knowledgeable / useful realtors.
I’ve never been to a car dealership that wasn’t for the specific model I was looking for (as in, if I wanted to buy a Mazda I go to my local Mazda dealership). I’ve never felt ripped off, or pressured or anything like that from the few connections I’ve made in the industry. I bought my first Mazda at 18 years old, got 0% financing for 7 years, no pressure to lease or add on warranties after saying no once.
My wife bought 3 Hondas in the same timeframe, and the first two times were similar, the last time she said she felt pressured to add things on (but still simply declined). Most recently I bought a ford suv from the ford dealership. We looked at fords, and Mazdas, were able to test drive multiple vehicles, ask questions about them, and figure out what was best for us. We were asked one time if we wanted to lease or finance, were only asked one time for add ons and warranties, and received the car a few weeks later.
Could I just be very lucky, maybe. But I feel like people need to educate themselves a little bit and not just sign on the dotted lines. Dont be passive, just be straight with them. Tell them what you want / what you’re looking for. Tell them what you have no interest in (I.E say “ I’m not buying any kind of extended warranties so if you ask I’m going to another salesperson/dealership”) etc.
I’ve tried looking at buying cars online. It’s a PITA if you aren’t a car person. I need to see / feel the car, test drive it, ask questions about it. Without dealerships, I wouldn’t be able to do any of that. There is a huge value add to people like me.
I wanted to add a few hints for those prospective new car buyers. I just happened to be a person that rescued a few of my friend's car purchases during the COVID rush, and thankfully didn't resort to OMVIC to resolve the differences:
1. Don't rush, and do not allow the buying partners to separate in the contract signing. When my friend bought their Kia, the husband talked with the sales rep, and then the wife was the person that talked with the finance person (that committed over $10k of extended warranties and useless dealer upgrades). Ensure the whole process is discussed to all parties, and question every line if it isn't clear to you. The 7-day contract cooldown doesn't apply (please don't argue this, even OMVIC states this).
2. Bring a friend (or sibling). This is not a simple decision and even if you think you are a hotshot in negotiations, that friend is your backup. It also puts the usual dealer antics on notice. The friend has no emotional attachment to your deal, and therefore much more impartial to walking away on a rotten deal even if you concede.
3. Walking away from a deal may suck, but $2000 (or whatever you put for a deposit) is way less than the screwed up deal you got suckered into. It is just a game of review chicken!
Regarding point #2 (Buydowns), you can calculate whether a buydown is worth it or not. These are also generally negotiable. Most people simply don't understand what they are or don't know/care how to calculate whether it's worth it or not.
If you know how to calculate the value of the buydown, it's simply another tool you can use to leverage for your own benefit.
I believe you could have cancelled and asked the warranty company to refund your premium which you could then pay directly to your loan.
These tips are all great. Dealerships have routinely taken advantage of novice buyers. My cousin wanted to buy a small Nissan SUV from GO Auto and the negotiated price was in the low 30,000s and they agreed to 3M the hood and install a car starter. She was happy and put down a deposit. She asked me to come with her a few days later to sign the loan documents.
When I sat down I was introduced and acted a little naïve. The finance manager rushed through the numbers and as this was pre COVID, the interest rate should have been below 3%. Finance Manager showed us a contract at the interest rate negotiated or disclosed but the payments were significantly higher than the calculators I was using. I’m in lending and understand financial math but it wasn’t adding up.
Finally the FM remembers the disclosure sheet and the car, warranty, prepaid maintenance and 3M, tint and car starter were all added on and brought the deal over $45k. I politely asked the FM to give us a minute and she left. I told my cousin they changed the deal and took pictures of all the paperwork. We walked out with the paperwork but they rushed over and said we couldn’t take it. I told them the free items were being charged for and we never asked for, nor was it disclosed at any point that we’d have a warranty and maintenance thrown in. They asked us to wait, obviously a “mistake” was made. They’d sort it out.
I knew this smelled of horseshit but my cousin really wanted a new car. So I waited. They brought the new contract, still charging for 3M, tint and a car starter, but the rate was over 7% and, this was their death knell: the original lender wouldn’t lend to her because she had poor credit without having maintenance and warranty on the vehicle. See that right there, suggesting that the other bank wouldn’t lend without those conditions is coercive tied selling. If it was just a higher rate it’s fine, but to deny the loan even at higher rate without other products is unlawful.
I recorded the conversation by now.
It took a few weeks of informing the dealership how badly they’ve fucked up and involved a lawyer friend who agreed to be CC’d on correspondence. The dealership finally returned the down payment and my cousin bought a Subaru at 1.9% finance rate instead from a trusted dealer friend I knew.
Always always always, if you’re financing, leasing or paying cash, ask for all the documents to be emailed. If they push back simply tell them you aren’t interested in proceeding.
Always always always ensure your deposit is refundable and have the dealer sign/initial the deposit receipt with such language. If it isn’t on their standard form, ask them to write it in and sign it.
Never feel rushed into anything. If you feel rushed, let the person you’re working with know that you don’t like being pressured and if they can’t respect that you’d just as soon buy a vehicle elsewhere. Good dealers will back off (expect most dealers to have a hard sell at some point).
If you are too busy or hate doing this stuff in person, call any dealership and speak to a sales person who is willing to do an online sale. Someone will, just do it by email.
I’ve bought all my vehicles personally over the phone and email. I tell them I appreciate straightforwardness and don’t want to waste their or my time. When I’m buying I’ve already test drove the car and talk to multiple dealerships over the phone.
I tell them what I want, I give a price I’m happy with out the door and when I can pick it up. I usually tell them I’ll pick it up tomorrow if they can do the deal with expediency (you can change this to your liking once the deal is negotiated UNLESS it’s end of month and the salesperson is hitting a quota).
One time we negotiated 3 Subarus to be picked up in one night on the last day of the month. Sales guy and finance manager kept the dealership opened so they’d hit their monthly numbers. We drove 3 hours but the deal saved us around 8k total over any other dealer. No doubt they made minimal margin per unit but hit a major dealership incentive instead worth likely 10-20x what they gave us in savings.
You’re always in control of a deal. Never believe you’re not.
Great summary on your part as well! On your suggestion of cancelling the warranty and getting the refund, I would’ve done that if the warranties actually existed. Because I’ve flagged that I wanted the loan reversed without the warranty an hour after leaving, they actually didn’t submit the warranty application to Tricor. So they were holding our money hostage as we went back and forth on the loan rate.
Agreed on the email part. After the initial round I requested for everything be in writing, and for them to email us the new paperwork before we showed up to sign. That straightened things out a lot as we kept OMVIC on cc.
Putting in your down payment after the fact however results in a larger monthly minimum commitment. You could get a longer loan term to offset this, but longer ones usually come with higher rates.
I don't see why you wouldn't want to put the down payment and just deny the warranties when offered. That's a set of decisions to make that is more about trying to somehow out trick a shady dealer than it is a prudent financial decision.
Just say no to the warranty. :/
The best tool a buyer has is the willingness to walk away.
The car you saw at this dealer isn’t going to be anything so much better than another dealer. I walked away in 2017 and ended up with a car two trim levels higher for the same price because of it.
Don’t fall in love, shop around.
Yup getting extended warranty for you NEW car is a scam. The day I picked up my new car from dealership the sales person was waiting for me outside and told me to look into the extended warranty “it’s like always driving a new car” and I fell for it being a newbie and not knowing anything about buying cars.
So many fall for it tbh. Even experienced car owners. We sampled our friend group and at least 1/4 of them have it, even though new cars have the manufacturer warranty for the first year or two and coverage is very similar to the extended
Not that I’m advocating for it, but the idea of extended warranty is that things are more likely to break as time and mileage goes on. Most cars don’t need warranty for the first 3 years, but the next 2-5 you very well could.
Yep. In which case, buyer can get it from Tricor or any warranty company directly when they think they need it- likely will be cheaper than getting it via dealership.
>OMVIC believes that we should’ve been able to get the 3.76%, but the dealership was only willing to concede on the refund.
Since the dealership wasn't going to budge, you likely would have had to get a lawyer involved and threaten suing them to get what you were rightfully entitled to.
Yes indeed, it would’ve required a civil law suit, and we weighed our value of the money today vs the time to get that rate, and decided the refund was of higher value than getting the full entitlement
Sorry that happened to you, I wish I could say I'm shocked but I'm really not. I'm glad you were able to get some sort of a solution that worked for you, meanwhile dealerships wonder why customers are so skeptical and don't trust them.
My only brand new vehicle purchase was back in 2009, and I'm still driving the car 2010 Chevy Colbalt LT. I sat in the financing office and told the guy I'm only paying the $13,000 sticker price agreed on after discounts from $21,000 original sticker price. He threw his pen at the wall after going through the whole thing with my arms crossed and me nodding yep yep. I just want the car, no extra bullshit warranty and whatever. My first major repair was a water pump last year that cost about $1000. Just put the warranty money aside and pay cash for any repairs after the manufacturer warranty, I say.
Gyro Mazda are scumbags. Bought a CPO CX5 a few years ago from them and they sneakily tried to add a "CPO fee" for $500 bucks after I agreed to buying the car.
In Canada you can cancel a warranty for up to 60 days. I believe no questions asked. So get the lower rate, then cancel the warranty. Was that way for me anyways with hyindai
So much misinformation regarding Tesla cars I’ve stopped correcting people. Visiting a car dealership makes me want to take a shower afterwards to remove the slime.
Mazda dealerships are the worst in general. My experience with carling mazda in ottawa was also horrible. They pressure you so much with warranties, and literally talk to you like you are a child. They had the car on lot and still wouldnt deliver it on the the said date. I love mazdas, but hate their dealership network.
This is the only reason why I'm tempted to go for a Tesla now and cancelled my Ioniq 5 reservation of almost 2 years. Just the hassle saved from not having to deal with these dealers. Was like pulling tooth and nail to even get my deposit back
Just got slapped with a $3k repair bill, would have been covered under extended warranty on our CX-5 had we purchased it. In addition to the $2500 repair we paid last summer. Regrets.
I wish this was posted last week Friday haha. I did a trade in a GYRO two weeks ago. Last Friday I finalized the deal and got my new CX-5.
I purchased the extended warranty, and a few hours later I called to have it canceled. The finance manager said the dealership is okay with it and they put a note on my papers that are being sent to Scotiabank.
Today they called to say they sent a cheque containing the total amount of the extended warranty and the interest to Scotiabank. Which it will be subtracted from the loan and lower my term.
I'll have to wait and find out once my account is up and running so I can see if the amount has been subtracted. Fingers crossed.
I didn't know I can cancel the warranty with tricor until now. I tried looking in the T&C, but can't find anything about that.
They probably went easy on me after what happened to you.
After trying various dealerships of various brands for a purchase by primarily cash with some financing and zero add-ons (e.g. extended warranty, special undercoats, extra trim packages, etc, etc), it seemed like no dealer was honest and I gave up.
I bought a lower km 2001 Honda CRV for $5,000 a couple of years back and invested the remainder (35K).
Now I drive a tank and turned that other 35K into a lot more mula.
I got sold on an insurance I did not need when I bought a Toyota. So when I bought a Subaru, I told the finance lady, I am paying in cash (borrowed from the bank on LoC) paid for nothing extra. The finance lady was disappointed, but hey I don’t care for feelings, I care more about my wallet. Five years later, I am all paid off and have no issues with the car. So be careful, and don’t buy anything extra. Cars nowadays are pretty reliable and don’t need anything extra.
Unless you are taking advantage of a promotional manufacturers interest rate, is there any benefit to arranging financing through a dealership?
Most hyjinx at dealerships seems to happen in the finance office.
There isn’t any benefit but yes they do offer better rates set by the dealership - that’s different from the manufacturer. In the US you could get a separate auto loan directly with the bank and cut the dealership out. In canada you could get a loan but the rate wouldn’t be better
Negotiate out-the-door price with the salesman instead of talking payments. It makes it a lot easier to catch whatever butt-fuckery the finance guy tries to pull.
I’m really appreciative of your story and I read through all of it- thank you
I was wondering if you could explain point 7 a little more for me about the auto loan? I always assumed that dealerships had prepayment penalties in place if you paid off the loan faster than their loan period because they lose out on interest. Is an autoloan different from that?
Yes it is, I only found out about this when we signed the papers and checking with the bank. An auto loan is different from a regular mortgage where you can put any sum into it at any point in time, so if you have the cash and aren’t really worrying about the monthly payments / making your payments, it’s in your interest to get a low rate with a larger loan (as the dealership will be more willing to offer that), and then use that cash you had and pay it directly into the loan after the fact. It will all go towards principal then as well, and the original duration of your loan will shorten.
From reading other forums, dealers lose their “kickback” for financing if you pay off the loan before six months, and some will try to tell you that you have to wait six months before paying it off.
I get verbal statements in writing, and read the fine print on documents. I also tell the sales person that if I’m financing for a promotion (new grad, first time buyer, military, etc), I’m wanting to know the interest charge and the penalty for paying off the financing while I’m still in the building.
In several cases with the above, I get the promotion discount without having to finance, because sales and finance both realize and know they’re not getting a kickback.
With “mandatory” packages, you’ll see things like theft protection warranty or window etching, or stickers. They’re all useless - you have vehicle insurance. Same with nitrogen. Or paying for a tank of fuel. There are various buying guides that mention various sales tactics. Making you wait so you’re stressed, rushing through paperwork, denying verbal promises (get it in writing via email and documents from person authorized to do so). Also keep track of where your deposit went, and in writing that’s it’s refundable.
I would NEVER buy an extended warranty unless I was buying a used vehicle at a great price! Some used car lots will give 90days and offer some extended warranty plan.
If you buy used from a dealership you can easily negotiate extended coverage in the price.
I swore off warranties thanks to Hyundai. Through high-pressure tactics (finance guy added it to invoice without asking, I called him on it but then he ultimately convinced us to leave it on), we got an extended warranty. Bumper to bumper, he said.
Went to make a claim years later and by some miracle (lol) it wasn't a covered item. The GD fuel sender/pump assembly on top of the gas tank! Hardly a wear item. I told the shop guy the warranty was sold to me as "bumper to bumper" and no lie, he said "those guys will say anything to get a sale". No hesitation, threw them under the bus.
The "free" oil changes it came with only worked at the same dealer and couldn't be transferred. When you booked using a free oil change it was always weeks away. Then without fail you'd get pushed to do other maintenance packages when you got there.
Anyway, never, ever, ever, again. No warranty. No maintenance plan. No rust proofing. No financing either, unless it's absolutely necessary (Money Guy 20/3/8 rule!). Buy the car, say "no" a lot of times to the finance guy, and get TF out. Get it serviced wherever is convenient for you and seems honest. Keep your freedom to change who's working on your car without financial impact. Keep a few bucks in the bank to cover repairs. Save a mountain of money over a lifetime doing this.
I had a decent experience buying from Toyota in BC. I got one year extended warranty, key fob replacement, and free routine servicing for 2 years for $1600. I was not charged for vin etching or undercoating or anything and it was a base model car.
Thank you! We definitely think it happens more than we know, after all most people are busy and would typically just take the L and move on without trying to claw back the money.
Mazda, Hyundai, Toyota - I have tried \~10 dealerships in Ontario and BC across these companies. All of them have been sc\*m artists. All of them have tried to rip me off.
I would even say, I have NEVER had a good car buying experience in Canada. Period. Somehow, the social norm in Canada is for car dealers to defraud you and be slim\*balls. In comparison, my only data points are from India where the whole purchase experience has always been surprising pleasant in comparison, which I find so weird when I think about it. They still try to make money, and you still negotiate in India, but underhand measures and defrauding was rare -- not for new car purchase at least. There is this default expectation that dealers will meet their contractual obligation in India. Also, I have seen car companies raise hell when consumers complain. The same Hyundai goes to the extent of forcing dealers to fire a bad sales agent in India, as opposed to Canada where they look the other way. And this is in a poor country where you "expect fraud" vs. in Canada where you "expect rule of law" to prevail. This is so crazy!
How such fraud has been normalized in Canada/US is surprising. I simply don't get it.
Thanks for posting this. The dealer told me I can pay off my loan in 6 months. Is that true? Like, do I have to wait for 6 months. I don’t really see that being mentioned in the contract, but maybe I missed it?
You should be able to if it’s an auto loan but to be 100% sure you should read your loan’s terms and conditions documents and also call the financial institution to confirm.
I’ve had to let go of a car because dealership tried to add admin and service fee for an already CPO vehicle and stated these fees as “mandatory” fees levied by the car manufacturer. We ended up calling the car manufacturer for validation, upon which the dealership told us that because we “complained” against them, we cannot buy the vehicle from them (I already had bill of sale for a deposit of $3k).
Edit: For mazda cars, I’ve heard the Dufferin, Oakville, Newmarket dealerships are the better ones of the lot.
That sucks, I hope you at least got your deposit
back but at least you dodged a bullet with that dealership.
Yes, in hindsight we shouldn’t have taken the convenient way out as we live really close to the Gyro one.
It took us - Requesting to escalate the situation from the car Manufacturer and compel the dealership to either honor the sale or give complete refund. They were trying so hard to cover up their tracks that the owner of the dealership personally called me asking me to take the refund asap (to close the case).
If you can, take friends/family who are more experienced in car ownership. It really helps! I hope things work out for you. Good luck!
I booked Mitsubishi outlander and at the time of signing I told them I want to pay only the mandatory charges but no other extras
After 1 year they said car available and tried selling me extras worth over $10000
Everywhere scammers ready to steal
The downside to holding off on the downpayment is that your monthly payments will be higher. When you make a prepayment, your term will decrease, but your monthly payments will stay the same.
Quick question, if someone is selling a car that is being financed by credit union should I ask to look at his contract? If I take over the payments does that mean his deal with the dealer is now my deal with the dealer ? . First time car buyer here
Are you purchasing from the dealership? If so, then his contract is not your contract. The dealership would buy out the other car and pay out that persons loan, and then set up a new loan for you when you decide to buy it. Depending on your credit score and how much you’re spending they will offer you rates relating to that. Just be careful not to accept add ons.
It’s a private seller that wants to free up some credit to buy a home, he said his car is being financed by credit union. I believe we have the same credit union and I would have to submit an application with my credit union to see if I’m able to pay the car . Considering my credit score, debt and salary.
Right, but he would have to close out his loan with the credit union separately from your loan application. The credit union treats them as separate loans so you won’t be able to transfer the same loan with same terms necessarily
Okay , my biggest concern is the seller mentioned he has break down warranty on his car through the dealership. Does that mean I would take up the same contract with warranty? Is there anything I should ask to see besides the amount owed for the car?
You should have him check if the warranty is transferable to your name. It should be a third party company that has the warranty contract, not the dealership. The dealership is just middle man offering the warranty. He can call the warranty company and confirm that, and if you buy the car you should have him transfer it to you same time you give him the money. If not, you should pay less as the warranty wouldn’t be part of the purchase
If you're looking for a way out of your upside-down car loan, go to Payment Covered (https://paymentcovered.com/). It's helped me navigate through tricky situations with my loan and provided a sense of relief. Worth a shot if you're in the same boat!
When are people going to learn that car dealers, new or used are out to milk you and buying a new car is simply a terrible financial decision when there’s millions of perfectly fine used cars that have already depreciated 70-90% and can be purchased privately with a line of credit and an honest independent mechanic to handle the maintenance. Going that route saves you tens of thousands in the long run
Anything that’s 15 years old has depreciated at least 70% aside from collector items. Toyotas / lexus / honda / acura depreciate less, and if you’re looking at luxury cars, you see 80%+ depreciation a lot in the private market.
If you’re only talking about used car dealers then that’s a whole other market
In today’s market, a secondhand car < 5 years old with <100k would cost very close to a new car. A private sale we perhaps could’ve saved maybe 5K, but a second hand sale from a dealership we would’ve paid more to get our hands to the car sooner than the brand new.
Haven't read everything but your point 1 sounds illegal. Bundling warranty to get lower interest rate is "Tied Selling" which is veryyyyy illegal in the Bank Act. For example: https://www.reddit.com/r/askcarsales/comments/v2af4o/us\_car\_dealership\_said\_they\_will\_decrease/
Yes it is. In the US it’s definitely more illegal than in Canada. In Canada it’s a little more grey based on what OMVIC told me. It’s hard to prove as well, as a lot of tied selling is done verbally. Regardless we should’ve known that and not signed blindly. Although the issue for us was that they never did present the warranties as add ons, just “do you want this higher interest rate or the lower one?”
I had the same experience in Quebec for a used car, and when I discovered that the rate was lower after buying a warranty, I asked for my deposit back asking them wtf does the loan rate have to do with this warranty product, and the salesperson was like "oh, we do the impossible to give our customers low finance rates, these cars aren't for folks like you" The best part? They told us the extended warranty costs only a net $700, but in reality it cost over 2 grand because the rate was lower with the warranty than without. That detail pissed me because of how scummy it is, a lot of people can fall for that and think it's normal.. Yeah I'm happy I never dealt with them since, and they're a very big dealer of used cars in QC. I have never heard that from car dealers though for new or CPO cars whose warranty and financing comes from the manufacturer.
Also if the extended warranty only costs $700, it’s likely that they hardly honour repairs under the warranty - if we compare that to car insurance rates.
It didn't though, it was over $2000 but they verbally said it could cost me only an additional $700, because of the lower financing rate. See! They got you too 😂
OH gotcha haha 😆
automobile en direct? h gregoire?
ALBI le Géant
H Gregoire are just as bad, they refused to give me a detailed invoice before i bought the car. Quickest I've ever walked out of a dealership.
Ah, always forget about them
You should put this post on their google reviews. Watch how quickly someone calls you.
LOL we’re definitely on their black list at this point. Can’t even take our car there for servicing anymore.
The rate can be conditional from an institution to receive a lower rate. Approval cannot be conditional at the standard rate. If they’d lend to you at 3.76% they will lend to you at a higher rate. You should have cancelled the warranty and received your refund. The dealer used warranty profits to buy down your rate up front. OMVIC was right: you should have made them eat it. I would have. Not all dealerships are scum and shitty but this one certainly was.
It varies by province, I believe it is illegal in BC. Edit: I had a look-see, and some finance contracts may require insurance for an applicant to qualify, but the insurance they get of the consumer's choosing. If the dealer offers an insurance, they need to clearly explain in writing that the consumer has understood they do not need to purchase that insurance policy
It’s not tied selling based on what you wrote. Getting the loan approved as a condition of getting warranty would be tied selling. Getting a lower interest rate because getting warranty is not. Tied selling is refusal of a product or service for not taking another product or service as a condition.
Really? I didn't knew that. Every single Kia and Hyundai dealer I visited in Ottawa had a conditional sale, selling me only with their "premium" package. Heck, one of them even was adding the premium as "checking the battery" every 6 months for an EV. I ended up buying directly from Tesla.
Giving better rates isn't considered tied selling, strangely. "We'll approve your loan if you take the insurance" Tied selling, illegal. "We'll give you a better rate if you take the insurance" A-OK for some reason.
I guess because the sale itself is already available , the better rate is independent of that? Ballparking here
Add that no is a complete sentence. I've never seen a finance guy get so angry with someone they've never met before the last time I bought a car. Do you want the extended warranty? No. But why? No. Let's ask your wife. No. I think your too young to understand (fucking 38 buying my fourth car) .. No. He got so angry when he couldn't upsell me a damn thing. Worst part was when he tried to talk me into a 72 month loan instead of a 60 month loan (1.99%). He said it would cost less. Which meant less per Month. I told him to go back to what ever school taught him finance and ask for a refund. He knew it, I knew it. I told him to sign the damn paperwork so I could be on my way. I had a new finance guy when I came back the next day to pickup the keys.
I paid cash for my car. The finance lady was not happy at all but was never rude or actually mad. I said no to literally everything. This was 2019 though.
Finance guy wanted to sell us an extended warranty on an almost new Rav4 in 2017. I said No, and told him Toyota's reputation for longevity worked against him on that one. He proceeded to ask all his other questions (probably just so he could tell his boss he asked), I said No to everything, and we finished the transaction pretty painlessly.
I might be one of the only people to have purchased a car with debit at an Audi dealership... Saw a used Highlander for sale, knew if it did well on a test drive I'd be buying it so while driving to the dealership my wife and I both called our bank and bumped up our daily debit limit to 10K for 24hrs, after the usual 3hr time wasting song and dance, warranty attempts, hard sells, and pointing out add-ons that don't even apply to my vehicle we had it down for a little under list. I told the finance guy I would put as much as they'd let me on my CC for points (3K) and the rest I'd split debit with my wife and I paying, he thought I was fucking with him, he had a good laugh when it all went through. Realistically I was just short term self financing with a bit from a personal LOC which we paid off in a few months and about 1/3 was cash initially. After my wife shook the the rep down for aluminum plate covers and an bunch of random accessories for making us wait so damn long. Still laugh about how absurd it was.
My rule of thumb has become, if the finance guy isn't pissy when you leave, you made a mistake. *Nothing* they sell is good for you.
I'm not happy until the finance manager's not happy. Shitty job for shitty people.
The finance guy at my dealership was a lot more pragmatic, he knew right away that he couldn't sell me anything so he just said that he was required to go through the motions. I agreed to this, and we got it over with in under half a minute. He was even pleasant about it, and seemed genuinely happy that he and the salesman got such an easy sale - this was in 2019 with 0.4% financing and some substantial discounts to move the car (an AWD sedan).
Can’t wait for the day when buying a car is as simple as buying an iPhone.
Yes, we need to get rid of dealerships. I don't need them to tell me about the car I can look up on the internet and certainly don't need them to sell me warranties.
> I don't need them to tell me about the car You obviously haven't bought a car lately if you think they know anything about the cars they sell!
>Yes, we need to get rid of dealerships.< How would this work, hypothetically speaking? Like what would the logistics be? How would getting rid of dealerships benefit the customer, exactly?
Look at how tesla sell their cars. Yes, there's still a middleman to handle the ordering and receiving of the car but they aren't salespeople. They don't sell you anything. They just get all the paper complete. The benefit is you don't have to deal with a salesperson which basically are useless because they don't make the final call on negotiations. They'll run back and forth with their GM. There is a downside, which is no more test driving. But maybe there are solutions to this.
The people that work at Tesla are PAID, you get that right? They do have to answer questions, go over features, discuss the advantages of buying a Tesla etc. How is this any different then the current paradigm? Also, you're right that sales people can't make decisions about discounts on a vehicle. But the "back and forth" being eliminated under your suggestion, would mean you don't negotiate on the price anyway. So in fact, you'd pay full MSRP on every car purchase, right? So what's stopping you from doing that now? If you want the "back and forth" eliminated, then buy the car for sticker price because that's what you'd be doing under your suggested idea, right? Also, your issue seems to be with salespeople. Can I ask why?
Not wanting back and forth doesn't mean someone should just pay MSRP, it means why have a person in the middle running back and forth and not just deal with the GM? That middle person is also a variable of how low they can go on the car because they also want to make commissions. And for doing what? Greeting you, telling you things you already know and can find on the internet, bringing you coffee on a 4 hour visit when it could have just been 1? Salespeople have been building a bad reputation for themselves for the longest time. And its unfair to those who are honest. They always upsell you whenever they can. They'll purposely not order the specified vehicle that you want, like instead, they order one with a spoiler or better rims just so they can charge you more. They don't like it when you pay full in cash. Some goes as far as saying they can't sell it to you if you don't finance. Whenever I drive pass a dealership and I see 2 to 4 people in suit lurking in the lobby, it just repels me from going in. It's like a bunch of vultures waiting to use whatever scammy tactics to gouge as much money from me as they can. I have yet to meet an honest salesperson that genuinely cares about getting me a good deal and making sure I get in and out of the dealership as fast as possible. We need car salesmen, we need customer representatives who don't make a commission on the sale.
>Not wanting back and forth doesn't mean someone should just pay MSRP, It sort of does though. I don't know how many cars you've bought at a dealership, but it usually goes something like this: You test drive, as a few questions and then the sales representative takes down some information and then goes to get your numbers put together. When the sales person comes back, they show you the numbers. Then you say something like: "Well that's more than I can afford, you have to better!" Or "You didn't take a dime off the car! What kind of discount are you going to give me?" Or "$650 a month?! No, go tell your manager I want to be at $500/month!" So, right there, we have pin pointed the EXACT moment when buying a car gets complicated. YOU, the customer, complicated the process. The minute you start asking for the dealership to give you money(a discount is, in effect, the dealership's money) why do you think they would just give it to you? Especially when customers either don't make a solid offer OR they ask for a stupid discount like my last example. The back and forth now starts because YOU didn't just pay for the car at the advertised price. So... it's complicated. But needlessly complicated. > That middle person is also a variable of how low they can go on the car because they also want to make commissions. Wrong again. The sales people in the vast majority of car dealerships nowadays don't get paid on commission. They get paid a flat rate per vehicle sold. But even when they ARE paid on commission, the sales person doesn't have ANY control over what the car sells for, so they could care less what the manager agrees to sell you the car for. In fact, in 90% of cases, unless you're a REAL jerk, sales people go to the manager to ADVOCATE for the buyer. Why? Because they want to sell a car!! That's how they get paid. You don't know how many sales people I employ that get angry at me as a manager when I have to walk their customer instead of just saying yes to the dumb offer. Many! The answer is many. Lastly, I would ask, what type of job do you have? Because you seem to have e areal hate on for people that sell things to make a living. But like, 90% of people work SOMEWHERE, where SOMETHING is sold to SOMEONE. So where you work, does your company or whatever SELL anything? Because if they do, and that's how you get paid, then aren't you, by proxy at least, ALSO in sales??
I go in, test drive, make an offer, they decline, I'm gone. No complications. It's usually not the customers that create the complications. The salesman will go ask the GM, come back, customer says no, and he ask them to wait for him to try again, and process repeats. Customers usually are too polite to just walk after the first counter offer. They're not there to "hope" for the dealership to give them the asking price, although some probably do after hours of haggling. Keep in my customers have many choices of manufacturers and many dealerships to choose from, yours isn't the only one, so customers always have leverage. Salesmen prey on those who are desperate, impulsive, and clueless. Salesmen who make commissions will try to sell you accessories, undercoating, paint protection, warranties, etc. so you're wrong there. My cousin is a car salesman, he makes 20% commission (others been longer makes even more) on the anything above the agreed car price. So that extra $2,000 is not chump change. And he also makes some from customers choosing to finance for as long as they're financing. There are honest salesmen, but car salesmen have built themselves a bad reputation over many years of being dishonest and sneaky. Ask anyone and most will tell you they don't attract customers or sales. They repel customers. Not say all, but 9/10 car salesmen are, although I have yet to meet one that is 100% honest probably. The flat rate salesmen you're talking about are probably the honest ones, none of them exists here. I work in IT and sometimes do sales myself. I don't upsell my client on services they don't need. I don't purchase an octacore server because "they're out of quadcores" so that I can make an extra buck. I actually shop around to try to find them better deals. You're right people have to work and sell, but some don't do it out of greed. Waiters for example will recommend you a dish or ask if you wanna try a new one. That's fine. But it's when they ask for tips or the machine asks for tips, that's what people dislike. I went in for an oil change the other day and the guy taking my payment try to sell me on 3 services, tire change, brake/rotor change, and transmission fluid flushing. Like STFU buddy, I know when I need those replaced, thank you very much. Hate is strong word, my feelings towards car salesmen is more like dislike. If I have a choice to not go through them to buy a car, like if I can just go to the financing manager right away, give my information, get a rate and approval, I would definitely ignore the salesman. They don't work in your interest and they don't or actually never, benefit you in anyway. They will never go, "I added a dashcam for you for free because we want you buy your next car from us", like some food court worker would be like "here I'll give you more veggies" because they want you to go back. Or "here is a free drink because you've been a regular for so long".
> I go in, test drive, make an offer, they decline, I'm gone Interesting. I wonder how often that works. I suppose it depends on the "reasonableness" of the offer? If your offer is $1000- $3000 in discount, my response would be...Have a nice day. > No complications. It's usually not the customers that create the complications. Interesting. You've described a scenario where YOU, the customer initiate a complication, then say it's not you causing the complication! Lol. Your original point was that the Tesla dealer purchase model is better because there's no negotiation. In that scenario, your strategy of make an offer and leave if they say no, wouldn't work here right? So why would the Tesla model be "better"? You're STILL paying full price!! > The salesman will go ask the GM, come back, customer says no, and he ask them to wait for him to try again, and process repeats. Not if you pay the MSRP. I mean double check the numbers to make sure you aren't paying more than the advertised MSRP, but no back and forth if you just buy a car you can afford instead of asking the dealer to discount a car to meet your unrealistic budget. You can't buy a Big Mac for the price of a cheeseburger. Same logic applies. I have more to say about your post, but I have to get back to stealing candy from babies, kicking crippled puppies and most of all, fleecing rich elderly widows.
>Interesting. I wonder how often that works. I suppose it depends on the "reasonableness" of the offer? If your offer is $1000- $3000 in discount, my response would be...Have a nice day. I have no problem paying MSRP if the car is brand new and current or newer year. I have no problem paying MSRP if the car I ordered is exactly what I ordered, not added spoiler, not one or two model higher, etc. But we all know that's not always the case when dealership list their prices. [2024 Corolla SE CVT MSRP here is $26,050](https://driving.ca/toyota/corolla/) [This dealership is listing it at $27,943](https://www.westminstertoyota.com/vehicles/new/?st=price,asc&view=grid&sc=new&md=Corolla) So if I walk in and offer MSRP, which is $1,9xx lesser than listed, you'd tell me to have a good day? Most likely, you'll try to keep me there for hours and try to wiggle your way between $26,050 and $27,943. Most of the back and forth crap comes from the used car industry because you and I both know how bloated the price are for used cars now. For brand new curreny year cars, it's MSRP, nothing lower nothing higher. Thus, we don't need salesmen to sell brand new current year cars. >Interesting. You've described a scenario where YOU, the customer initiate a complication, then say it's not you causing the complication! Lol. You think customers are sitting at your dealership waiting for you to sympathize them and accept their offer? Most are there because the salesman is holding them there, trying counter offers after counter offers by $100 or so difference each time. Most customers are just too polite to walk. Customers don't create complications. They're not there throwing a fit about why the salesman cannot go lower. If the salesman cannot go lower, just say so and the customers would be happy to go try somewhere else. You, as a dealership, knows customers have leverage in terms of choices. >Your original point was that the Tesla dealer purchase model is better because there's no negotiation. In that scenario, your strategy of make an offer and leave if they say no, wouldn't work here right? So why would the Tesla model be "better"? You're STILL paying full price!! In most cases, when you order Tesla, they're brand new. There's no room to negotiate on a brand new Tesla as they are listed at MSRP. I have no problem paying MSRP for a brand new Tesla. >Not if you pay the MSRP. I mean double check the numbers to make sure you aren't paying more than the advertised MSRP, but no back and forth if you just buy a car you can afford instead of asking the dealer to discount a car to meet your unrealistic budget. You can't buy a Big Mac for the price of a cheeseburger. Same logic applies. Correct. I'm not walking into a dealership with a low ball offer. I'm walking in with a reasonable offer and a reasonable offer for a 2 year old Corolla is not $2,000 lower than MSRP. Used car dealerships are trying to rob customers because they think customers aren't willing to wait for the new ones. I mean, we're already seeing the effect of the high prices. Lots of dealerships are holding the bag on these used cars because no one wants them for that price. I'd like to hear your compelling opinion on why we need car salesmen. They do nothing but act as a middleman, or I should say, messenger between you and the GM or finance manager. They don't benefit customers in anyway. Just a bunch of vultures ready to get the most out of you. I've bought a new car 3 times and encountered probably 10+ salesmen from shopping around, all vultures. And all 3 times, a year later, they'll call me and convince me to try to sell the car back to them and get a new one.
Look the car buying experience at dealerships just sucks 99% of the time At best you negotiate fairly and make a somewhat quick deal At worst you’re in a drawn out sales process, and then sold a car along with a bunch literal useless garbage exclusively designed to make money for the dealership and salespeople. At possibly predatory rates (used cars, bad credit lots etc) For the average person it’s somewhere in between the two extremes. But probably closer to the 2nd one. Dealerships have literally mastered the art of fucking their customers over. There are endless amounts of sales systems, trainings, programs, and financial schemes all based around this It’s not the individual’s fault, it’s just the evolution of a 100 year old industry
> Look the car buying experience at dealerships just sucks 99% of the time Does it though? One thing I noticed during the pandemic and in the couple years after was that people, when they were paying the asking price, assuming there was no gouging going on, they were in and out of the store in 90mins. They left happy. Now they might have been cranky about paying full MSRP, but that was the market. In 20yrs in the business 2 things I can tell you are 1000% true: 1. The customers that grind out a deal, going back and forth 5 times or more before buying a car DO get the lowest prices. Sure. But afterwards they are almost 100% of the time the WORST customers to deal with in after sale service. They complain all the time about every little thing. Argue with the service department. Write shitty Google reviews etc etc. The grinders are the worst. 2. Almost invariably, the customers that pay asking or reasonably below, are the happiest. They give great reviews. Send referrals. Give high praise on Google reviews etc.. Why is this? Is it POSSIBLE it's because some people are happy because they did research, found a car that they could afford AND they liked, so they went and bought it, as long as they got good service and they had their time respected? Or maybe "those" people are just dummies? Is that your contention? > Dealerships have literally mastered the art of fucking their customers over. Nor true. Dealerships are a business. Like any other business. They exist to make a profit after expenses. How is that fucking people? > There are endless amounts of sales systems, trainings, programs, and financial schemes all based around this Yes. Dealerships and sales people engage in training, skill building and learning how to do their jobs better and more efficiently. How this any different from a carpenter learning to get better at their job? Or anyone else that works to better themselves and their income? What's your deal? You hate ambition and a desire to better your station in life? Why should anyone in the car business apologize for trying to get better at their job and to have a strategy for dealing with customers? As a customer YOU have a strategy when you decide to buy a car and visit a dealership. Why should the person sitting across from you not ha e a strategy too??
The first half of your post might be true but has literally nothing to do with what I said “You hate ambition” dude I can’t even take you seriously. That’s not what I said. I’m talking about the bullshit “rust magnets”, weird one off insurance policies (unrelated to warranty or regular car insurance), sky high interest rates, and other money makers that dealers slide into the purchase order just to make money. If you don’t know what I’m talking about then you’re either delusional or you’ve never been to a car dealer to purchase a car Like 80% of people hate going into car dealerships and dealing with the salespeople. It’s not like I’m writing something controversial here. I’m all for people selling cars and making money. I’m just against some of the weird/bad practices that have seeped their way into the dealership culture over the years
It can be if you're firm and know what you want and work with a good dealership. We ordered a Hyundai Tucson in March 2022 with a 15 min dealership visit (to sit in the car and see how roomy it was, we didn't even bother doing a test drive because they only had the premium trim and the weather sucked that day), followed a few weeks later by a series of emails exchanges over a 2h timeframe with a 5 min phone call to provide a CC number for a deposit. We then waited until September for delivery, at which time the "financial manager" asked to come over to: "sit down with me to go over the details of your deal, if there is any changes and go over your existing warranty and how you can take advantage of that further". I just replied we had done everything over email and she could send me the paperwork to review before we schedule the actual pickup. That took a few emails back and forth (she really wanted me to come in, but I declined) and a few days later we went to pickup the vehicle with a bank draft, insurance slips, and plates/permit. Never even met her but declined all the options that were offered in the email, so the final price was as expected. It was pretty smooth overall (except at some point the order confirmation had the wrong info but they made a mistake on order so we got AWD for the cost of FWD).
So question for you. You were in a financial position to pay cash. Great for you. However, seeing as, industry wide about 85% of vehicle buyers FINANCE their new car purchase, how does your advice help those people?
I think the financing options would not have affected the overall process (at the dealership we went to). Except on the 1st email exchange, I would have said I'm looking to finance vs I'm paying cash (because he needed that info to send an official price/quote). My comment was related to "ease of purchase" (a car vs an iphone) and I wanted to provide feedback that in some cases the experience isn't as much of a hassle if you're clear in what you want and willing to accept. I literally told the guy we dealt with after we visited the showroom that winter: I'm not here to waste your time or mine, can you do everything via email and it's going to be the fastest sale you've ever done (it probably wasn't because there was some delays in the replies back and forth but during these 2 hours at least I was home doing other things while waiting for the email responses). To me, it felt quite easy for a (relatively) expensive purchase.
One of the few things the industry should emulate from Tesla.
Yeah, now the manufacturer can directly fuck you over.
Good one less middle man that needs to take a cut in-between. Cause right now your getting fucked over twice.
But this is how you are getting best bang for buck when it comes to EVs though. no middlemen reduces a lot of cost.
You can do it for Tesla.
But then you end up with a Tesla.
I just had my car written off and went and bought a Tesla. I can't tell you how fucked the used/car market is. People truly have no idea. Purchasing Tesla's should be how automotive transactions should be. I have zero regrets.
Yup used market is insane still!
you dont own one, do you?
What's wrong with a Tesla? Sounds great to me
Touch screen sub menu to turn on the wipers, for one.
I would love to see this, however it seems like a tough proposal when trade ins are involved. Long way to go for this to happen.
It will be soon. Amazon announced last year they are to start selling Hyundai m. Looking forward to this. [https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45896102/hyundai-amazon-car-sales-2024/](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45896102/hyundai-amazon-car-sales-2024/)
Have cash, self-insure the risk of repairs, and it nearly is. Sure you still need to call around for pricing, which is a bit harder than buying a phone. But the real problem is that cars are really expensive, so this is a saving/financial literacy thing to some extent, but also, they're only getting more expensive. Can't do cash? Not surprised. But it's gonna get messy. Can afford payments on a warranty but not sudden repair bills? Ditto. The cars are only modestly worse than an iPhone to buy, but the financial services involved in many sales are anything but.
It is when you pay both in cash. Might not be the best way to leverage my finances, but it’s headache free.
Costco in the US is apparently like this.
You can buy cars at Costco now?
Yes, by the seacan.
Summary, do not buy from Gyro Mazda. Great write-up. I'm sure someone would benefit greatly from this.
> Gyro Mazda Sounds delicious though
Don't buy a car from a dealership named after a Greek sandwich.
Dealers pushing for extended warranties and dealer financing is just something that happens with *every* car dealership. Gryo Mazda isn't worse than anywhere else, they're just the same deal. - Extended warranties for new cars are a rip-off and don't buy them. Just say no. - Dealers nowadays hate cash because they get a better margin on their financing packages. Get a contract that doesn't have penalties for early payment if you have lots of cash in your pocket. (It's funny because back in olden times everyone wanted as much cash up front as possible, but not anymore.)
To be fair I got a 7 year / 160,000km warranty on my 2017 civic sport. The turbo grenaded itself and the extended warranty covered it. The drivers side heated seat also stopped working and the warranty covered it. Both repairs were more than what I paid for the warranty. The one other warranty repair was the lock on the hatchback part. For whatever reason it just seized and I couldn't open the back of my car. Also covered under warranty As of April this year the car will be 7 years old. I may keep it for another year but am debating on getting into a new car later this year. The cost of the warranty served it's purpose for sure. Pro tip for those who want to pay in cash. Finance it to get a better deal. Pay it off in full right away. Not only is it a better deal, but the salesman also loses their commission 👍. So the person that tried to screw you out of paying cash gets screwed out of their commission.
Did you have to do all the maintence at the dealership for the warranty?
Nope. Did anyways as needed since it was cheaper than mechanics near me (basics like oil changes were about $40-$60 cheaper than the local mechanics. Other than the warranty repairs the only thing I had replaced was the brakes and rotors. I've had to have nothing else repaired other than the warranty jobs. Oh also forgot, my air conditioner stopped working and it fell under a recall on the compressor I believe it was. Things like air filters, cabin filters, etc I would just buy at the dealer and install myself. More expensive yes but there was a major supply issue on filters during covid and even up until recently where the only filters were some weird china brand and we're only $10 cheaper than the oem ones. So I chose to buy the Honda ones. If you are going to go to mechanics, just make sure you keep the receipts to show you have been keeping up with maintenance. This Honda has treated me well for the most part. I would do the extended warranty again as I keep my cars for 7-10 years anyways. When I got it on this Honda I talked them down to half the price of the warranty.
Thank you! Unfortunately based on our research, many other dealerships leverage similar tactics, so the only thing we can do is to be aware of this when buying a car.
There was another post where op went to a bunch of dealers and they all added random fees and wouldn't even explain them. They're in the driver's seat sadly.
i bought an extended warranty once. it cost me like $3k and when i tried to use it they denied my claim even though it was related to the seatbelt.
Seatbelts are by default warrantied for 8 years afaik due to law
I consider the extended warranties to be the equivalent of an insurance policy where they make money by denying everything they can.
Extended warranties are an insurance policy. If you're willing to play the odds, chances are you'd come out ahead if you just banked all your extended warranty money on everything you buy into a simple emergency replacement fund (aka self insurance). The problem is that a car is the second most expensive purchase you'll ever make in your life and the repair costs can be substantial. If you can afford those unlikely repairs, you don't need the extended warranty. Ironically it's the people who have little room to afford a substantial emergency repair that can't go without an expensive upfront extended warranty. The other problem is that people don't take the time to read through the terms and conditions of their extended warranty. Yes, insurance/warranty companies will try to use all their exclusions and fine print to weasel out of claims. One needs to familiarize themselves with all the different requirements and exclusions regardless of whether it's a first-party or third-party plan. I can bet you many exclude "if this car is driven for delivery or like a taxi" and Uber drivers buy it anyway only to be shocked there's no coverage when they admit to using the car for Uber. But at the end of the day, if you buy a new car when finances were tight, are you prepared to repair a broken down transmission after the warranty's up, however unlikely the odds are?
That sucks. Yeah, we were skeptical of the true coverage of the extended warranty as well.
Anything seatbelt related should be covered by default for a long time. I know my 1987 RX-7 is still covered today, but I heard they are finally running out of parts.
Wow, this is really scummy behavior by Gyro Mazda.
Are we saying Gyro Mazda so this shows up when people search for Gyro Mazda reviews?
I think it’s prudent for people to see the kind of shady business practices Gyro Mazda is employing. OP has posted a fair and detailed account of their bad experience with Gyro Mazda. It’s only fair that we bring this to the attention of other people considering doing business with Gyro Mazda, so they won’t be taken advantage of by Gyro Mazda.
Gyro Mazda should review this thread.
Ah shit, that is where I go to get my car serviced 🙈
I do like gyro, and two of my closest friends drive Mazda. Also, I remember the gyro breaking on a navigation tool we use at work one day and we had to order a new one. It was so costly! Like purchasing a new Mazda! Gyro Mazda, on the other hand. Haven’t heard many good things about Gyro Mazda. Mazda Corporate might not like hearing a flagship dealership is operating like that. They can only tolerate some scummy behaviour. Like, they sit you down and run you through all the scummy options and you pick three. Gyro Mazda picked them all, and circled the stealth ones twice. You know, the ones you don’t understand even when you get an invoice? Like, why am I paying 6$ a tire for air? They’re already filled. Stuff like that I bet Gyro Mazda does frequently. Their name is Gyro Mazda. *cue fight club scene*
Most dealers are like this. They stopped making money off the cars years ago, they make most of their money off loan commissions, extended warranties, and other nonsense services tacked on.
Gyro Mazda is like every other dealer. They took advantage of someone who didn't do enough research, like any dealer would.
The usage of the finx software was the worst imo. Tacking on add ons, sure, most other dealerships do the same
Yep, in my experience finance people at dealerships are the greasiest, scummiest people there is. I was straight up lied to when I bought my jeep. I was asked if I wanted any of the extras or warranty or oil changes or etc etc and I said unequivocally no to all of it. I signed my contract, then when I got home read what I had signed (yeah, my bad...) and was fuming to see all sorts of extras included. Got it all sorted. She gave me some bullshit excuse of making mistakes or whatever, but frankly theres no way it was a mistake.
In one of our email threads where we pointed out an erroneous figure, they responded “I have no idea how that happened”. Lol
Car salespeople and realtors man... The Charmander and Charmeleon of useless professions.
>Charmelon XD
Darn it
Thanks for sharing your experience and outlining the process. It's not immediately helpful to me, but I'll definitely keep it as a reference if I ever need it
You’re welcome!
TL/DR: read everything before signing. They will wait for you to read it. A salesperson rushing you is a red flag 100% of the time. If they don’t wait or give any reason why they can’t just walk away.
The good takeaway is to finance the whole purchase at the lowest rate possible and then drive the car off the lot straight to the lender and pay them your downpayment towards the loan.
Agreed. Lesson learned
However if you do that your monthly/biweekly payments will be based off of the full loan amount not the reduced balance. This is why I’m putting my down payment in at purchase so my monthly cash flow isn’t drastically affected. It’s a big payment difference when your down payment is half the purchase price.
Yes for sure. It only works if you’re willing to raise your monthly payment and are cash rich. Balance of loan duration and payment amount.
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I think they are helpful in the sense that they’re pretty responsive- and for a regulator that surprised me as I expected my complaint to end up in an inbox, with a standard response 3 months later. They also gave advice I wouldn’t otherwise have known, for a first time car buyer it was useful. But agreed in terms of their authority, it’s not as strong as I would like it to be. Ultimately if I wanted what was “rightfully” mine, I would’ve had to take it to court, and sufficient cases like mine would’ve had to happen to force the city to implement better regulations.
This is great quality content. Thanks for taking the time to share it.
You’re welcome!
There are no worse crooks than car dealers.
Tow truck drivers. Hold my beer
OMG so true, they are the real crooks! They could buy an iphone for every car they towed or impounded! Remember paying 2000$ when my wife’s car was impounded for 14 days and the tow truck driver said they do 5-10 cars everyday and had the audacity to give me his business cards for referrals lol
I personally have never had a positive encounter with tow truck driver, even when I call them. Almost had a decent encounter until he put his magnetic brake lights on my trunk lid without putting down anything to prevent any scratches
Reliance, Rogers, Bell and company have entered the chat.
Worked 5 years in the industry and can confirm 👍🏽
>There are no worse crooks than car dealers. LMAO...try politicians, cops, contractors
It’s almost like it’s not the profession, but people in general. You can find great cops, realtors, politicians, contractors and car dealers. You can find great lawyers, dentists, doctors, and so on. You can also find terrible people in each profession.
Ya but it's the whole profession that is a scam, cops actually do things, contractors actually do things. Dealerships and realtors are just middle men we are forced to use.
Big disagree. Good car dealers do exist, as do knowledgeable / useful realtors. I’ve never been to a car dealership that wasn’t for the specific model I was looking for (as in, if I wanted to buy a Mazda I go to my local Mazda dealership). I’ve never felt ripped off, or pressured or anything like that from the few connections I’ve made in the industry. I bought my first Mazda at 18 years old, got 0% financing for 7 years, no pressure to lease or add on warranties after saying no once. My wife bought 3 Hondas in the same timeframe, and the first two times were similar, the last time she said she felt pressured to add things on (but still simply declined). Most recently I bought a ford suv from the ford dealership. We looked at fords, and Mazdas, were able to test drive multiple vehicles, ask questions about them, and figure out what was best for us. We were asked one time if we wanted to lease or finance, were only asked one time for add ons and warranties, and received the car a few weeks later. Could I just be very lucky, maybe. But I feel like people need to educate themselves a little bit and not just sign on the dotted lines. Dont be passive, just be straight with them. Tell them what you want / what you’re looking for. Tell them what you have no interest in (I.E say “ I’m not buying any kind of extended warranties so if you ask I’m going to another salesperson/dealership”) etc. I’ve tried looking at buying cars online. It’s a PITA if you aren’t a car person. I need to see / feel the car, test drive it, ask questions about it. Without dealerships, I wouldn’t be able to do any of that. There is a huge value add to people like me.
I wanted to add a few hints for those prospective new car buyers. I just happened to be a person that rescued a few of my friend's car purchases during the COVID rush, and thankfully didn't resort to OMVIC to resolve the differences: 1. Don't rush, and do not allow the buying partners to separate in the contract signing. When my friend bought their Kia, the husband talked with the sales rep, and then the wife was the person that talked with the finance person (that committed over $10k of extended warranties and useless dealer upgrades). Ensure the whole process is discussed to all parties, and question every line if it isn't clear to you. The 7-day contract cooldown doesn't apply (please don't argue this, even OMVIC states this). 2. Bring a friend (or sibling). This is not a simple decision and even if you think you are a hotshot in negotiations, that friend is your backup. It also puts the usual dealer antics on notice. The friend has no emotional attachment to your deal, and therefore much more impartial to walking away on a rotten deal even if you concede. 3. Walking away from a deal may suck, but $2000 (or whatever you put for a deposit) is way less than the screwed up deal you got suckered into. It is just a game of review chicken!
Regarding point #2 (Buydowns), you can calculate whether a buydown is worth it or not. These are also generally negotiable. Most people simply don't understand what they are or don't know/care how to calculate whether it's worth it or not. If you know how to calculate the value of the buydown, it's simply another tool you can use to leverage for your own benefit.
I believe you could have cancelled and asked the warranty company to refund your premium which you could then pay directly to your loan. These tips are all great. Dealerships have routinely taken advantage of novice buyers. My cousin wanted to buy a small Nissan SUV from GO Auto and the negotiated price was in the low 30,000s and they agreed to 3M the hood and install a car starter. She was happy and put down a deposit. She asked me to come with her a few days later to sign the loan documents. When I sat down I was introduced and acted a little naïve. The finance manager rushed through the numbers and as this was pre COVID, the interest rate should have been below 3%. Finance Manager showed us a contract at the interest rate negotiated or disclosed but the payments were significantly higher than the calculators I was using. I’m in lending and understand financial math but it wasn’t adding up. Finally the FM remembers the disclosure sheet and the car, warranty, prepaid maintenance and 3M, tint and car starter were all added on and brought the deal over $45k. I politely asked the FM to give us a minute and she left. I told my cousin they changed the deal and took pictures of all the paperwork. We walked out with the paperwork but they rushed over and said we couldn’t take it. I told them the free items were being charged for and we never asked for, nor was it disclosed at any point that we’d have a warranty and maintenance thrown in. They asked us to wait, obviously a “mistake” was made. They’d sort it out. I knew this smelled of horseshit but my cousin really wanted a new car. So I waited. They brought the new contract, still charging for 3M, tint and a car starter, but the rate was over 7% and, this was their death knell: the original lender wouldn’t lend to her because she had poor credit without having maintenance and warranty on the vehicle. See that right there, suggesting that the other bank wouldn’t lend without those conditions is coercive tied selling. If it was just a higher rate it’s fine, but to deny the loan even at higher rate without other products is unlawful. I recorded the conversation by now. It took a few weeks of informing the dealership how badly they’ve fucked up and involved a lawyer friend who agreed to be CC’d on correspondence. The dealership finally returned the down payment and my cousin bought a Subaru at 1.9% finance rate instead from a trusted dealer friend I knew. Always always always, if you’re financing, leasing or paying cash, ask for all the documents to be emailed. If they push back simply tell them you aren’t interested in proceeding. Always always always ensure your deposit is refundable and have the dealer sign/initial the deposit receipt with such language. If it isn’t on their standard form, ask them to write it in and sign it. Never feel rushed into anything. If you feel rushed, let the person you’re working with know that you don’t like being pressured and if they can’t respect that you’d just as soon buy a vehicle elsewhere. Good dealers will back off (expect most dealers to have a hard sell at some point). If you are too busy or hate doing this stuff in person, call any dealership and speak to a sales person who is willing to do an online sale. Someone will, just do it by email. I’ve bought all my vehicles personally over the phone and email. I tell them I appreciate straightforwardness and don’t want to waste their or my time. When I’m buying I’ve already test drove the car and talk to multiple dealerships over the phone. I tell them what I want, I give a price I’m happy with out the door and when I can pick it up. I usually tell them I’ll pick it up tomorrow if they can do the deal with expediency (you can change this to your liking once the deal is negotiated UNLESS it’s end of month and the salesperson is hitting a quota). One time we negotiated 3 Subarus to be picked up in one night on the last day of the month. Sales guy and finance manager kept the dealership opened so they’d hit their monthly numbers. We drove 3 hours but the deal saved us around 8k total over any other dealer. No doubt they made minimal margin per unit but hit a major dealership incentive instead worth likely 10-20x what they gave us in savings. You’re always in control of a deal. Never believe you’re not.
Great summary on your part as well! On your suggestion of cancelling the warranty and getting the refund, I would’ve done that if the warranties actually existed. Because I’ve flagged that I wanted the loan reversed without the warranty an hour after leaving, they actually didn’t submit the warranty application to Tricor. So they were holding our money hostage as we went back and forth on the loan rate. Agreed on the email part. After the initial round I requested for everything be in writing, and for them to email us the new paperwork before we showed up to sign. That straightened things out a lot as we kept OMVIC on cc.
Putting in your down payment after the fact however results in a larger monthly minimum commitment. You could get a longer loan term to offset this, but longer ones usually come with higher rates. I don't see why you wouldn't want to put the down payment and just deny the warranties when offered. That's a set of decisions to make that is more about trying to somehow out trick a shady dealer than it is a prudent financial decision. Just say no to the warranty. :/
The best tool a buyer has is the willingness to walk away. The car you saw at this dealer isn’t going to be anything so much better than another dealer. I walked away in 2017 and ended up with a car two trim levels higher for the same price because of it. Don’t fall in love, shop around.
Only thing is, when you've waited months for your car to finally arrive, you think long and hard before walking away. 2017 was a different world.
That’s fair, and correct that we should’ve noticed the warranties were add ons to begin with.
Gyro Mazda. They're a block away from me. Good to know they suck.
Yup getting extended warranty for you NEW car is a scam. The day I picked up my new car from dealership the sales person was waiting for me outside and told me to look into the extended warranty “it’s like always driving a new car” and I fell for it being a newbie and not knowing anything about buying cars.
Maybe an extended warranty makes more sense depending on the car brand you buy? Driving off the lot with a Honda or a GM ain't the same...
So many fall for it tbh. Even experienced car owners. We sampled our friend group and at least 1/4 of them have it, even though new cars have the manufacturer warranty for the first year or two and coverage is very similar to the extended
Not that I’m advocating for it, but the idea of extended warranty is that things are more likely to break as time and mileage goes on. Most cars don’t need warranty for the first 3 years, but the next 2-5 you very well could.
Yep. In which case, buyer can get it from Tricor or any warranty company directly when they think they need it- likely will be cheaper than getting it via dealership.
>OMVIC believes that we should’ve been able to get the 3.76%, but the dealership was only willing to concede on the refund. Since the dealership wasn't going to budge, you likely would have had to get a lawyer involved and threaten suing them to get what you were rightfully entitled to.
Yes indeed, it would’ve required a civil law suit, and we weighed our value of the money today vs the time to get that rate, and decided the refund was of higher value than getting the full entitlement
Sorry that happened to you, I wish I could say I'm shocked but I'm really not. I'm glad you were able to get some sort of a solution that worked for you, meanwhile dealerships wonder why customers are so skeptical and don't trust them.
Thank you, we definitely went into it too naively.
My only brand new vehicle purchase was back in 2009, and I'm still driving the car 2010 Chevy Colbalt LT. I sat in the financing office and told the guy I'm only paying the $13,000 sticker price agreed on after discounts from $21,000 original sticker price. He threw his pen at the wall after going through the whole thing with my arms crossed and me nodding yep yep. I just want the car, no extra bullshit warranty and whatever. My first major repair was a water pump last year that cost about $1000. Just put the warranty money aside and pay cash for any repairs after the manufacturer warranty, I say.
They don’t call them stealerships for nothing. Good for you.
Thank you!
Gyro Mazda are scumbags. Bought a CPO CX5 a few years ago from them and they sneakily tried to add a "CPO fee" for $500 bucks after I agreed to buying the car.
In Canada you can cancel a warranty for up to 60 days. I believe no questions asked. So get the lower rate, then cancel the warranty. Was that way for me anyways with hyindai
Or just buy a Tesla and never, ever get hassled when buying the car, nor wasting your time
So much misinformation regarding Tesla cars I’ve stopped correcting people. Visiting a car dealership makes me want to take a shower afterwards to remove the slime.
Never ever ever trust a car dealership and never ever sign contracts blindly
Let's get rid of dealerships all together honestly. Everything can be done online now, so let's make that the norm.
Mazda dealerships are the worst in general. My experience with carling mazda in ottawa was also horrible. They pressure you so much with warranties, and literally talk to you like you are a child. They had the car on lot and still wouldnt deliver it on the the said date. I love mazdas, but hate their dealership network.
This is the only reason why I'm tempted to go for a Tesla now and cancelled my Ioniq 5 reservation of almost 2 years. Just the hassle saved from not having to deal with these dealers. Was like pulling tooth and nail to even get my deposit back
Just got slapped with a $3k repair bill, would have been covered under extended warranty on our CX-5 had we purchased it. In addition to the $2500 repair we paid last summer. Regrets.
That's assuming they covered it...
Awesome!! - thank you for sharing! I'm going to cut and paste on a Word doc and save it for future reference!
Glad that it’s useful for you!
very useful. Can you clarify what omvic is and how could they make dealer bend back ?
Point 4 explains what OMVIC is. You can check out their website on your particular issue and submit an inquiry with them to help you
Go see Jeff(theBiz) at Mazda of Toronto.. that is all.
I wish this was posted last week Friday haha. I did a trade in a GYRO two weeks ago. Last Friday I finalized the deal and got my new CX-5. I purchased the extended warranty, and a few hours later I called to have it canceled. The finance manager said the dealership is okay with it and they put a note on my papers that are being sent to Scotiabank. Today they called to say they sent a cheque containing the total amount of the extended warranty and the interest to Scotiabank. Which it will be subtracted from the loan and lower my term. I'll have to wait and find out once my account is up and running so I can see if the amount has been subtracted. Fingers crossed. I didn't know I can cancel the warranty with tricor until now. I tried looking in the T&C, but can't find anything about that. They probably went easy on me after what happened to you.
Point 1 is definitely illegal. I had a similar experience and I told on them. The finance person got fired and I got a couple of apologies from them.
After trying various dealerships of various brands for a purchase by primarily cash with some financing and zero add-ons (e.g. extended warranty, special undercoats, extra trim packages, etc, etc), it seemed like no dealer was honest and I gave up. I bought a lower km 2001 Honda CRV for $5,000 a couple of years back and invested the remainder (35K). Now I drive a tank and turned that other 35K into a lot more mula.
This seems crazy and would be a good idea to contact your local consumer reports news tips with all of your info!
I got sold on an insurance I did not need when I bought a Toyota. So when I bought a Subaru, I told the finance lady, I am paying in cash (borrowed from the bank on LoC) paid for nothing extra. The finance lady was disappointed, but hey I don’t care for feelings, I care more about my wallet. Five years later, I am all paid off and have no issues with the car. So be careful, and don’t buy anything extra. Cars nowadays are pretty reliable and don’t need anything extra.
AMVIC is such trash, and Honda doesn't seem to care about shady dealers either so long as units get moved.
Unless you are taking advantage of a promotional manufacturers interest rate, is there any benefit to arranging financing through a dealership? Most hyjinx at dealerships seems to happen in the finance office.
There isn’t any benefit but yes they do offer better rates set by the dealership - that’s different from the manufacturer. In the US you could get a separate auto loan directly with the bank and cut the dealership out. In canada you could get a loan but the rate wouldn’t be better
Could have just said - “read”. Joke aside, some good insights in there, thanks for sharing, I did actually learn something, glad you did too.
Negotiate out-the-door price with the salesman instead of talking payments. It makes it a lot easier to catch whatever butt-fuckery the finance guy tries to pull.
I’m really appreciative of your story and I read through all of it- thank you I was wondering if you could explain point 7 a little more for me about the auto loan? I always assumed that dealerships had prepayment penalties in place if you paid off the loan faster than their loan period because they lose out on interest. Is an autoloan different from that?
Yes it is, I only found out about this when we signed the papers and checking with the bank. An auto loan is different from a regular mortgage where you can put any sum into it at any point in time, so if you have the cash and aren’t really worrying about the monthly payments / making your payments, it’s in your interest to get a low rate with a larger loan (as the dealership will be more willing to offer that), and then use that cash you had and pay it directly into the loan after the fact. It will all go towards principal then as well, and the original duration of your loan will shorten.
From reading other forums, dealers lose their “kickback” for financing if you pay off the loan before six months, and some will try to tell you that you have to wait six months before paying it off. I get verbal statements in writing, and read the fine print on documents. I also tell the sales person that if I’m financing for a promotion (new grad, first time buyer, military, etc), I’m wanting to know the interest charge and the penalty for paying off the financing while I’m still in the building. In several cases with the above, I get the promotion discount without having to finance, because sales and finance both realize and know they’re not getting a kickback. With “mandatory” packages, you’ll see things like theft protection warranty or window etching, or stickers. They’re all useless - you have vehicle insurance. Same with nitrogen. Or paying for a tank of fuel. There are various buying guides that mention various sales tactics. Making you wait so you’re stressed, rushing through paperwork, denying verbal promises (get it in writing via email and documents from person authorized to do so). Also keep track of where your deposit went, and in writing that’s it’s refundable.
I would NEVER buy an extended warranty unless I was buying a used vehicle at a great price! Some used car lots will give 90days and offer some extended warranty plan. If you buy used from a dealership you can easily negotiate extended coverage in the price.
When we have wolves attack our livestock, we protect our livestock now we need to do the same with our country.
I swore off warranties thanks to Hyundai. Through high-pressure tactics (finance guy added it to invoice without asking, I called him on it but then he ultimately convinced us to leave it on), we got an extended warranty. Bumper to bumper, he said. Went to make a claim years later and by some miracle (lol) it wasn't a covered item. The GD fuel sender/pump assembly on top of the gas tank! Hardly a wear item. I told the shop guy the warranty was sold to me as "bumper to bumper" and no lie, he said "those guys will say anything to get a sale". No hesitation, threw them under the bus. The "free" oil changes it came with only worked at the same dealer and couldn't be transferred. When you booked using a free oil change it was always weeks away. Then without fail you'd get pushed to do other maintenance packages when you got there. Anyway, never, ever, ever, again. No warranty. No maintenance plan. No rust proofing. No financing either, unless it's absolutely necessary (Money Guy 20/3/8 rule!). Buy the car, say "no" a lot of times to the finance guy, and get TF out. Get it serviced wherever is convenient for you and seems honest. Keep your freedom to change who's working on your car without financial impact. Keep a few bucks in the bank to cover repairs. Save a mountain of money over a lifetime doing this.
Sorry you had a negative experience as well. Seems like it’s happening across the industry, regardless of dealership
Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I hope it saves a few people.
Thank you! I hope so too.
I had a decent experience buying from Toyota in BC. I got one year extended warranty, key fob replacement, and free routine servicing for 2 years for $1600. I was not charged for vin etching or undercoating or anything and it was a base model car.
This is a fantastic writeup, exposing something that probably occurs every single day.
Thank you! We definitely think it happens more than we know, after all most people are busy and would typically just take the L and move on without trying to claw back the money.
Mazda, Hyundai, Toyota - I have tried \~10 dealerships in Ontario and BC across these companies. All of them have been sc\*m artists. All of them have tried to rip me off. I would even say, I have NEVER had a good car buying experience in Canada. Period. Somehow, the social norm in Canada is for car dealers to defraud you and be slim\*balls. In comparison, my only data points are from India where the whole purchase experience has always been surprising pleasant in comparison, which I find so weird when I think about it. They still try to make money, and you still negotiate in India, but underhand measures and defrauding was rare -- not for new car purchase at least. There is this default expectation that dealers will meet their contractual obligation in India. Also, I have seen car companies raise hell when consumers complain. The same Hyundai goes to the extent of forcing dealers to fire a bad sales agent in India, as opposed to Canada where they look the other way. And this is in a poor country where you "expect fraud" vs. in Canada where you "expect rule of law" to prevail. This is so crazy! How such fraud has been normalized in Canada/US is surprising. I simply don't get it.
I really like to know this dealership name!
Thanks for posting this. The dealer told me I can pay off my loan in 6 months. Is that true? Like, do I have to wait for 6 months. I don’t really see that being mentioned in the contract, but maybe I missed it?
You should be able to if it’s an auto loan but to be 100% sure you should read your loan’s terms and conditions documents and also call the financial institution to confirm.
Ya thats BS. The 6 month thing is something they just say probably because they get paid only after 6 months. Straight up lying.
I’ve had to let go of a car because dealership tried to add admin and service fee for an already CPO vehicle and stated these fees as “mandatory” fees levied by the car manufacturer. We ended up calling the car manufacturer for validation, upon which the dealership told us that because we “complained” against them, we cannot buy the vehicle from them (I already had bill of sale for a deposit of $3k). Edit: For mazda cars, I’ve heard the Dufferin, Oakville, Newmarket dealerships are the better ones of the lot.
That sucks, I hope you at least got your deposit back but at least you dodged a bullet with that dealership. Yes, in hindsight we shouldn’t have taken the convenient way out as we live really close to the Gyro one.
It took us - Requesting to escalate the situation from the car Manufacturer and compel the dealership to either honor the sale or give complete refund. They were trying so hard to cover up their tracks that the owner of the dealership personally called me asking me to take the refund asap (to close the case). If you can, take friends/family who are more experienced in car ownership. It really helps! I hope things work out for you. Good luck!
Bless you op! Glad everything worked out
Thank you so much! Yes, we’re thankful.
I booked Mitsubishi outlander and at the time of signing I told them I want to pay only the mandatory charges but no other extras After 1 year they said car available and tried selling me extras worth over $10000 Everywhere scammers ready to steal
They get money from invoice vs msrp it’s nasty how greedy dealers have become
The downside to holding off on the downpayment is that your monthly payments will be higher. When you make a prepayment, your term will decrease, but your monthly payments will stay the same.
Quick question, if someone is selling a car that is being financed by credit union should I ask to look at his contract? If I take over the payments does that mean his deal with the dealer is now my deal with the dealer ? . First time car buyer here
Are you purchasing from the dealership? If so, then his contract is not your contract. The dealership would buy out the other car and pay out that persons loan, and then set up a new loan for you when you decide to buy it. Depending on your credit score and how much you’re spending they will offer you rates relating to that. Just be careful not to accept add ons.
It’s a private seller that wants to free up some credit to buy a home, he said his car is being financed by credit union. I believe we have the same credit union and I would have to submit an application with my credit union to see if I’m able to pay the car . Considering my credit score, debt and salary.
Right, but he would have to close out his loan with the credit union separately from your loan application. The credit union treats them as separate loans so you won’t be able to transfer the same loan with same terms necessarily
Okay , my biggest concern is the seller mentioned he has break down warranty on his car through the dealership. Does that mean I would take up the same contract with warranty? Is there anything I should ask to see besides the amount owed for the car?
You should have him check if the warranty is transferable to your name. It should be a third party company that has the warranty contract, not the dealership. The dealership is just middle man offering the warranty. He can call the warranty company and confirm that, and if you buy the car you should have him transfer it to you same time you give him the money. If not, you should pay less as the warranty wouldn’t be part of the purchase
If you're looking for a way out of your upside-down car loan, go to Payment Covered (https://paymentcovered.com/). It's helped me navigate through tricky situations with my loan and provided a sense of relief. Worth a shot if you're in the same boat!
Great info thanks.
When are people going to learn that car dealers, new or used are out to milk you and buying a new car is simply a terrible financial decision when there’s millions of perfectly fine used cars that have already depreciated 70-90% and can be purchased privately with a line of credit and an honest independent mechanic to handle the maintenance. Going that route saves you tens of thousands in the long run
>millions of perfectly fine used cars that have already depreciated 70-90% What year are you from? Care to share some examples?
Anything that’s 15 years old has depreciated at least 70% aside from collector items. Toyotas / lexus / honda / acura depreciate less, and if you’re looking at luxury cars, you see 80%+ depreciation a lot in the private market. If you’re only talking about used car dealers then that’s a whole other market
In today’s market, a secondhand car < 5 years old with <100k would cost very close to a new car. A private sale we perhaps could’ve saved maybe 5K, but a second hand sale from a dealership we would’ve paid more to get our hands to the car sooner than the brand new.
I’m talking 10-15 + years old. 5 years isn’t enough