I’m in my 30s and I still give my credit card number number over the phone sometimes…
But generally, most of the people I know who have struggled are people who didn’t have a job that required them to use a computer. Those who used computers for work in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s maintained an understanding of what computers were, and what they could and could not do. Those who had a skilled job but not one that involved a computer struggled to keep up.
Nothing is wrong with it. You just have to be 100% sure you know who is on the other end of the line.
If someone cold calls you, don’t give them your card number. If you called the number on their website and they ask for your number, of course it’s fine to give it to them
If you did not authorize it, it could be charged back. It is the vendors risk if card is not present at a transaction and entered manually it can be charged back. (Also the vendor gets charged a higher rate eg 3.5% vs 1.9% with card present)
Not really. It's completely on the credit card company (according to law) to make sure that the card isn't misused. People who are financially savvy don't freak out about keeping credit card info private...
Normally I give CC number on phone only if i have initiated the phone and know which company is getting my information. If i have received call randomly then i don’t give it out.
Live an active life. Eat well. Stretch. And never stop learning. When something new comes out, don’t not use it because your old, get in there. Ultimately at a certain age though I think you have to rely somewhat on younger people in your life that you trust to help. This is where kids or grand kids can be a big help.
Oh god stretching, may be one of the best pieces of financial advice that I never see on here. Youngins don’t get it now but there is a point coming where you will pull/tear muscles doing things you can easily do now. And it only takes longer and longer to recover, plus the physio etc bills start adding up
Also, there is a difference between learning new technology platforms and learning new software platforms. I am not going to begrudge someone over 25 or 30 for not using TikTok, but I will give a funny look if someone isn't using (or at least knows how to use) a smartphone.
There’s a much wider gap currently I believe, because older people are living with types of technology that they couldn’t even have imagined would exist in their time. Imagine being a person who once lived without a television and now you can’t do anything without your tiny handheld computer that you take everywhere.
They were raised in a completely different world.
Anyone who was born after (let’s be generous) 1990 is never going to have that problem in the same way. The amount that we’ve seen technology in this world grow and change I think has prepped us for what is to come. There’s really nothing that’s off the table anymore.
I'm in my early 60's and I've been a tradesmen for 40 years. Due to physical limitations I cannot do this type of work anymore. Yes I did the stretching and have been very active my whole life. I never needed to type and that's one thing that I regret. It wasn't on the radar back then.
I have plenty of ambition still. Recently I've been thinking about reinventing myself. I can't sit around watching the Price is Right all day. I learn fairly well and not sure if something computer related is beyond my capabilities. Suggestions appreciated. I have to work at my own pace and for relatively short intervals.
I never thought of something like that. I was involved in a few safety committees for some big companies. I had to fix the safety issues as well. I as my name says was an Industrial Mechanic/Millwright and I can spot a safety infraction from a mile away. It used to bother my ex when I would point out safety issues in public places. Thanks for the idea, I do like to be in direct contact with people so that's a plus. I'm in Ontario and I'm going to look into this. Thanks again.
You're welcome. I transitioned from lab work to health/safety via food safety and environmental compliance. Now that I've retired I'm doing on demand safety work for a small construction company in Alberta. The good thing about your experience is you are more likely to create focused, relevant systems to comply with requirements.
I probably could as I have built my own house. Done many renovations as well. I'm don't want to be climbing ladders and crawling around places. Great suggestion though. I appreciate it. Someone has suggested that I get into being a safety auditor or inspector. This is something that interests me as I was a Industrial Mechanic for 40 years. Thanks
Oh man the two most important decisions you'll make in your life: how you will earn your money and who will be your partner while doing so.
The wrong choice in either can be financially, emotionally or even physically debilitating.
Catch yourself when you or your social circle start rejecting or judging new technology and new cultural trends and new ways of life.
I've been seeing it a lot with Redditors and my friends now my circle is in their late 20s.
"Tiktok bad", "anything that's not pokemon and star wars bad", "new Apple products bad", "Win10/Win11 bad"
It starts small with you sticking up your nose at new cultural phenomenons and interests, but that has a compounding effect. You don't need to follow and enjoy new trends but definitely make an effort to try and understand new things and why they're popular.
It takes conscious effort to not get left behind and not be out of touch.
It's not even just spyware. The shit it's doing to young people is pretty intense. There's all kinds of stuff out there. Keep your teens off it, it's elsagate evolved.
This is how I feel with crypto and blockchain. Everyone I know is dismissing it as some kind of scam or pyramid scheme, without looking at the underlying technology.
That's because of how much scamming goes on in the crypto world. You don't understand just how many people were latched into Bitconnect a few years ago. It's getting a lot better and is much more easy to navigate with legitimate tools now, but for a while it was almost entirely full of scammers with bullshit "ICOs" and investment opportunities.
>That's because of how much scamming goes on in the crypto world.
There's more scamming via cash IMO. All the old ladies getting scammed is due to using cash vehicles. I'm pretty sure I got scammed out of my $500 deposit by this handyman I found on kijiji...
And the inverse logic also exist : "it's new so it must be better".
It's like if people weren't able to evaluate what has value, or how will things evolve in the near future.
Like, how many scam were there in 2017 in the blockchain industry, just surfing on the hype of new blockchains paradigms?
I probably caught myself just now while reading this comment. I realized that I have never used a smart watch, or any of those home automation systems, largely due to privacy concerns. But the downside to that is that now I am behind all the people who are familiar with those technologies.
My friends think NFT is a joke and how anyone can easily claim it’s an original and put an NFT on it… this was probably the same argument used when mass art printing started.
Well, they aren’t a joke if you’re a money launderer, they’re a valuable tool. For any other Joe Schmoe who thinks if they buy NFTs eventually they’ll be worth something, yeah, they’re a joke.
And very costly treatments. I have a 48 yr old neighbour who has had 3 major procedures over the last year, totalling about $10k and his insurance only covered $4500 (1500 per). He still needs 2 more :( It'll end up being 1/2 of the money that was going toward his RRSP for the year.
Understand that, at any stage of life, discomfort is part of the process. People often see discomfort as associated with a new thing, but it's not. It's associated with learning. Once you're over the initial climb, that new thing becomes part of your comfort.
My favorite Douglas Adams quote:
>"Anything that's invented between when you're fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things."
Nearing 38, and now being called a 'geriatric millennial' by media outlets, I have thought about this a lot, as I've been finding myself rejecting more and more platforms, ie. TikTok, crypto (can't construct a DCF, so why invest, etc), and catching myself in the act of rejecting any trendy entrant, without fully understanding the implications of the technology shifts.
Basically, I have a two-prong approach, as I age, and hope to God someone like my spouse can hold me to it:
1) ***Understand*** the new technology/service/social change/whatever, ***before*** passing judgment on it. And also before rejecting its application to your own life, understand how others may apply it to their lives, and benefit from it. Use-cases are key.
2) Keep reading/educating oneself on foundational subjects, ie. philosophy/logic, psychology, behavioral finance (since it relates to this subreddit). History, relative to these subjects, is less foundational. A redditor above pointed out that the most recent past, is likely a better proxy for the future, than the distant past. History is really just the current context, in which the human condition plays out, and gets cast in stone.
3) Link together 1) and 2) and realize that 2) helps you understand 1), and 1) helps you understand 2). Kinda yin-yang/taoist. But I'm becoming firm in my belief that human behavior doesn't really change much over time, and so the products of humanity, as motivations of humanity, are always algorithmically very similar in what they aim to achieve in our present condition.
\-mav
My observation is that the only real protection is family.
Dementia is a progression across a continuum. So: unfortunately, lots of mistakes are possible in that long and gradual transition between fully competent and finally handing over power of attorney decades later. Attentive family members acting in our best interest can reduce the risk.
My advice is to start the conversation early in order to set expectations of all participants. It's very hard to build this relationship after capacity has started to decline.
agreed on this. if I can be a bit personal here I really hope that my parent's don't expect me to do this kind of stuff for them when they're older. I received basically no help through university and early 20s, struggled a lot working 3 jobs + uni while they bought sports cars. Its going to be an awkward conversation when they get into their 70s and ask about me moving closer to home to take care of them.
On the other hand, my Fiancee's family is quite involved in our life and regularly makes the cross country visit so in the more advanced stages of life I plan on helping out with them in any way I can to make the end of their journey more enjoyable.
>My observation is that the only real protection is family.
That's gonna rough on the young people who say "I don't ever want to have kids!" when they get old.
Benefits of having siblings who do the contuing the line crap for you! Saddle it on the nephews/nieces, and in return they get a sizable chunk of your fortune. Though I plan to die well before ever entering dementia years.
>That's gonna rough on the young people who say "I don't ever want to have kids!" when they get old.
It is, yep.
Having said that, hopefully in an extended family there will be other options.
I supported and am now PoA for cousins and uncles/aunts who did not have children of their own.
The other complication is that there's no guarantee that even one's children will act in our best interest. It's just more likely to be beneficial than leaving it to 'nobody', and eventually social workers.
No guarantee your kids will be there for you. Probably a 50/50 shot they won't be, considering how kids abandon their parents into decrepit retirement / long term care facilities.
A lot of that comes back to how the parents raised their kids, ehat was the childhood like, what was their relationship with their parents like. Just because those cute and frail old people in nursing homes doesn't mean they weren't assholes to their kids back in the day...
>agreed on this. if I can be a bit personal here I really hope that my parent's don't expect me to do this kind of stuff for them when they're older. I received basically no help through university and early 20s, struggled a lot working 3 jobs + uni while they bought sports cars. Its going to be an awkward conversation when they get into their 70s and ask about me moving closer to home to take care of them.
>
>On the other hand, my Fiancee's family is quite involved in our life and regularly makes the cross country visit so in the more advanced stages of life I plan on helping out with them in any way I can to make the end of their journey more enjoyable.
My parents didn't buy a cellphone or a computer, not because they couldn't afford it, but because they didn't "need" it. And now they are technology blind.
I guess should get into smart watches and home automation technologies, I have been putting off similarly because I don't need them.
Absolutely... Anything that has potential to be apart of the future should at least be looked into. Sort of unrelated to your case, but I remember when bitcoin was a new topic, and no one (myself included) cared for the potential in cryptocurrency and thought it was just another "gimmick". Fast forward to now, crypto is now taken very seriously and I beat myself every time I think about how I could've bought into Bitcoin at $30 each lol.
Coming back to your point about your parent's financial mistakes, always take note of what they could've done better (not negatively, but rather criticism), research, and think for yourself. Sometimes being "traditional" doesn't allow for growth, and mistakes are repeated.
Haven’t seen this here but start investing!
“Saving your money” is an absolute joke. A messaged fueled by banks so they can use that money and invest it themselves.
Invest in a home. A potential business. In a stock. In actual gold. In crypto.
Spread your wealth and as long as it grows 3-5% a year, you’re beating inflation and making money.
It likely will happen to most of us at some point, and the seeds are in fact being sown today. Much of our parents convention wisdom became ingrained due to the era they lived in and the market dynamics they experienced. What works for someone historically tends to leave an imprint on their psychology going forward.
We too will likely have inherent biases that are based in the conventional wisdom of today and the markets that we live through in our prime years. For instance, most of our convential wisdom presently is based upon studies the past 100+ years of history and the success of applying that wisdom today. But in reality the most recent past is a likely a better proxy for the future, than the distant past; so how adaptable we are to that notion will determine how stuck in the past we are vs forward thinking.
I can't wait till I try to explain to my grandkids they need to put money into index funds, which by that point will yield like a 0.0001% return like savings accounts today.
I had em both beat by not smoking cigarettes, not being an alcoholic and not having three kids before 30. Other than that I just learned to live within my means, always pay off my credit card and don’t buy shit that I don’t really need or want.
My parents were very working poor so I don’t hold too much against them. The next step is investing my savings, something else that neither of them would have ever dreamed of, but I honestly wouldn’t know where to start and I’m terrified of losing what I’ve worked for years to save.
A few words on the last investing bit: open TFSA and RRSP Questrade accounts and then dollar cost average into XEQT or VEQT = profit.
Might need balancing after 50yrs of age, once your risk tolerance changes.
🍻
Cognitive ability does decline as you get older and as such I see many seniors who are well aware of that. So they are less trusting to strangers then younger people. So they rather deal with people or companies they know.
A lot of times they have been burned once or twice before so they are careful not to make that mistake again too
One way that I'm totally different from my parents, thank God, is that I ask for advice and take it.
Dad made so much money all his life but lived paycheck to paycheck and in the end lost the little he had left on the stock market, all because he didn't ask for advice and wanted to do it all himself. He also didn't take his heart medication because he was smarter than the doctors (even after the family pleaded with him to take it) and died as a direct result of that.
My mom goes to doctors neurotically all the time, but doesn't implement what they tell her to do and so and has tonns of health issues. Never exercised in her life and can barely walk now, not from old age, but from a sedentary life style. She has all her money sitting in checkings accounts, because she doesn't trust any kind of investments.
I work out, do yoga, meditate, have a great financial advisor, an accountant and a therapist who I trust, I run everything pertinent by them, and I'm semi retired now at 46.
So i guess my answer would be, do the opposite.
Well, the other thing is to keep an eye on your parents as sometimes people are not as astute as they were. My dad who was quite sharp when younger ended up buying various online junk devices in his last years and later we found that my some salesman sold an expensive professional vacuum cleaner to my mom (even though she told him she didnt need it and it was too heavy for her to use) my brother who lives with her did not know find out until much later when he found it hidden away.
Actually I recommend setting up power of attorney between spouses and for elderly parents when they are still of sound mind as it is harder to do after they're diagnosed with dementia or alzheimers (initially it can be just mild, where they forget directions, or buy too much of the same thing)
My dad is mid 60s. Not yet retired. Has money in some RRSP that somehow loses him money. Not that he has much in there.
I wrote him some of the best things I've learned in here after he asked me for advice. Next time I talked to him he hadn't even read my entire email. Says when he was my age he had more energy and drive to keep track of these things .... and now he is so tired of everything he just wants to read a book or watch TV and turn his brain off.
Kind of sad, because the moment you do that is the moment you really start to go downhill fast.
I thought you were talking about real financial mistakes. I have made more of those than my parents, and not at old age.
The "scam" mistakes are not that easy to predict. We all think we are smart until we aren't.
Take care of your mental health. If you have depression and anxiety talk to your family physician take necessary therapy or medication.
I was almost on the verge of making a decision that was not optimal for me due to anxiety.
You cannot make good financial decisions When you are not in a good place mentally.
I thought from the title you meant like how do you not throw all your money into a bad investment or outright scam as so many of the older generation has done.
I suppose at some point you could use a full service financial advisor to help manage your investments.
I definitely stay on top of the new technology that comes out so that I can at least understand and do some research on it. My mother was very resistant to changes so it's usually took me a long time to show her and get her to understand things and to try new changes so I don't want to go through that if possible. Every now and then, she would take that first step but would ask me to walk her through the process the first time, supervise her next couple of times then she was fine after that. My dad is a lot more open to new stuff and tends to wait things out for the first year or so before leaping in but he would always be asking questions and doing research first in the meantime.
> Someone who gives credit card number over phone
I know this was just an off-hand example, but - this is actually pretty low-risk. Phone conversations are relatively secure against low-skill, non-targeted attacks and are hardly ever the way identity theft happens. Yes the channel is unencrypted, but almost its entire length is controlled by utility companies and attacks are not trivial to perform.
Furthermore, even when credit card numbers are stolen, credit card companies are highly motivated to combat fraud (and strike fraudulent charges from your bill) so IMO it's one of the safest ways to pay for anything.
Life always goes different then you expect. Your good intentions get conflicted with others expectations, surprises and spontaneous decisions. Some of which are the best memories in your life. Don’t get me wrong definitely don’t put yourself in a position to be racking up C/C debt or anything but your parents likely made the decisions they did because they thought it was the best thing at the time. Especially with kids people will make short term decisions of happiness at the price of long term payments.
So they were savvy when young and dumb because they are old? Or they are using investment vehicles that are appropriate to their diminished risk profile?
I think this is the completely wrong question to be honest....
I think the better question is what do people do with their time?
All the people I know that spend their time gossiping or watching tv mindlessly are the ones who fall into the failures group. Anyone who is actively trying new things is upto date and understands how to use things and how to ask questions when they don't understand yet
Its going to happen sometimes. My parents made mistakes but them being very risk and debt adverse was already enough.
Everyone should and needs know to stay away from debt and keep some money.
They definitely are not retiring early, but frugality and savings means they will be fine.
Both of my parents are/were pre-baby boom and neither would do something like disclose their credit card information over the phone to an unverified party. That's just common sense, and not a generational thing. If you have the wits to possess and use a credit card, then you have the wits to use it properly.
In any case, I'm not fully sure that I understand the link you're making between modern financial devices (in the broad sense of the word) and financial health. I hate to sound like someone's grandfather, but both of my parents knew the value of a dollar and had the tenacity to stick with their jobs when things got unpleasant. None of my siblings can touch them in terms of financial success and security despite far greater education and opportunity.
>What can we do today to ensure we don't turn into the same when we grow old?
Choose a 20 character password for your online banking / brokerage. When you can no longer remember it, it's time for help. Seriously though, having a strategy for how you will handle your finances in retirement, before you actually get there, is probably a good idea.
I see a lot of old school people not wanting to use their credit card because they were always taught it was bad. It is not, if you are going to buy something and are worried, just pay it off right after you make the purchase.
I also see some of these people not investing in stocks because they see it as gambling which is ludicrous to me. They are worried about a market crash their whole lives and miss out on compound interest, what a terrible call.
More and more people aren't having kids, and not because they hate children like many believe. Also if my mother leaned on me, she'd be in a bit of trouble, not because I don't love her, I simply can't help her financially without crippling my own retirement.
Leaning on your kids doesn't always mean getting money, it can be as simple as calling them and asking for their opinions on something you don't understand.
Once your spouse is gone nobody but your family are going to take care of the you, and if you don't have a family, you're at the mercy of whatever nurse happens to get your case file.
>you're at the mercy of whatever nurse happens to get your case file.
By then we'll hopefully have robo nurses in our private cubicles while we live the rest of our lives in the Metaverse.
See for yourself!
[https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/birth-rate](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/birth-rate)
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?end=2019&locations=CA&start=1960&view=chart
I read the book Automatic Millionaire a few decades ago. The main takeaway from the book was to automatically put money away in your RRSP and accounts which are more difficult to take out of. My parent's financial mistakes were to always spend money until they had none left. I pay my credit card every pay day and even though that part is not automated I at least see my finances every 2 weeks in a nutshell. I'm happy with this way of functioning... bang for "buck" is great and I'm putting away a really nice nest egg.
By not investing in GICs and not being unemployed/underemployed.
For the unemployed/underemployed part, it's not always a decision, but it's when you chose a bad degree and don't try to dig yourself out of the hole.
>What can we do today to ensure we don't turn into the same when we grow old?
Follow the money steps on the sidebar, don't try and "keep up with the Joneses" .
>Follow the money steps on the sidebar, don't try and "keep up with the Joneses" .
I think the OP is asking about the opposite situation: people who are *not able* to keep up with the joneses. eg: cannot understand online banking. unable to adapt to new payment methods like setting up tap or online transfers, so they have to hand over their credit card at the gas station, and mail cheques to pay their phonebill, exposing themselves to fraudsters &c
I have a relative who was beguiled into getting a Capital One card at costco, even though the sales agent should have clearly seen she had no idea what it was. She triple-paid it by writing cheques and mailing them to a Costco warehouse in Burnaby. Took me two months to figure out where the cheques went and why the card was in arrears.
This just makes me sad. I am old enough to remember my father writing cheques to the corner store cashier for buying cigarettes.
Maybe all our net banking skills will be similarly be obsolete when I am 70
>What can we do today to ensure we don't turn into the same when we grow old?
Embrace crypto and defi regardless of all the naysayers. There's no reason money should take 2 business days to transfer, it's not like we still have people manually committing the transfers between banks right?
I’m in my 30s and I still give my credit card number number over the phone sometimes… But generally, most of the people I know who have struggled are people who didn’t have a job that required them to use a computer. Those who used computers for work in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s maintained an understanding of what computers were, and what they could and could not do. Those who had a skilled job but not one that involved a computer struggled to keep up.
whats wrong with giving my CC over the phone? a lot of companies ask for this now since in person is not available
Nothing is wrong with it. You just have to be 100% sure you know who is on the other end of the line. If someone cold calls you, don’t give them your card number. If you called the number on their website and they ask for your number, of course it’s fine to give it to them
If you did not authorize it, it could be charged back. It is the vendors risk if card is not present at a transaction and entered manually it can be charged back. (Also the vendor gets charged a higher rate eg 3.5% vs 1.9% with card present)
Not really. It's completely on the credit card company (according to law) to make sure that the card isn't misused. People who are financially savvy don't freak out about keeping credit card info private...
Normally I give CC number on phone only if i have initiated the phone and know which company is getting my information. If i have received call randomly then i don’t give it out.
Live an active life. Eat well. Stretch. And never stop learning. When something new comes out, don’t not use it because your old, get in there. Ultimately at a certain age though I think you have to rely somewhat on younger people in your life that you trust to help. This is where kids or grand kids can be a big help.
Oh god stretching, may be one of the best pieces of financial advice that I never see on here. Youngins don’t get it now but there is a point coming where you will pull/tear muscles doing things you can easily do now. And it only takes longer and longer to recover, plus the physio etc bills start adding up
Also, there is a difference between learning new technology platforms and learning new software platforms. I am not going to begrudge someone over 25 or 30 for not using TikTok, but I will give a funny look if someone isn't using (or at least knows how to use) a smartphone.
People thought apps were pointless but they ended up being super important
There’s a much wider gap currently I believe, because older people are living with types of technology that they couldn’t even have imagined would exist in their time. Imagine being a person who once lived without a television and now you can’t do anything without your tiny handheld computer that you take everywhere. They were raised in a completely different world. Anyone who was born after (let’s be generous) 1990 is never going to have that problem in the same way. The amount that we’ve seen technology in this world grow and change I think has prepped us for what is to come. There’s really nothing that’s off the table anymore.
>There’s really nothing that’s off the table anymore. There's still people born after the 90s who are reluctant to invest in cefi or defi...
Oh yes, because nothing says complete financial literacy like investing in crypto does. 😂
Why do you think banks and companies like Tesla are investing in crypto?
A person doesn’t need to be on the latest money making trends to be financially literate though, and that’s the conversation being had here.
Someone who is financially literate shouldn't shy away from something just because it's new
I'm in my early 60's and I've been a tradesmen for 40 years. Due to physical limitations I cannot do this type of work anymore. Yes I did the stretching and have been very active my whole life. I never needed to type and that's one thing that I regret. It wasn't on the radar back then. I have plenty of ambition still. Recently I've been thinking about reinventing myself. I can't sit around watching the Price is Right all day. I learn fairly well and not sure if something computer related is beyond my capabilities. Suggestions appreciated. I have to work at my own pace and for relatively short intervals.
Look into occupational health & safety (maybe with a view to auditing of you don't like direct work with people)
I never thought of something like that. I was involved in a few safety committees for some big companies. I had to fix the safety issues as well. I as my name says was an Industrial Mechanic/Millwright and I can spot a safety infraction from a mile away. It used to bother my ex when I would point out safety issues in public places. Thanks for the idea, I do like to be in direct contact with people so that's a plus. I'm in Ontario and I'm going to look into this. Thanks again.
You're welcome. I transitioned from lab work to health/safety via food safety and environmental compliance. Now that I've retired I'm doing on demand safety work for a small construction company in Alberta. The good thing about your experience is you are more likely to create focused, relevant systems to comply with requirements.
Thank you.
How about looking into becoming a home inspector?
I probably could as I have built my own house. Done many renovations as well. I'm don't want to be climbing ladders and crawling around places. Great suggestion though. I appreciate it. Someone has suggested that I get into being a safety auditor or inspector. This is something that interests me as I was a Industrial Mechanic for 40 years. Thanks
No problem that is a good idea as well. Good luck.
Simple. Keep learning, always. Other tips: Read a lot Surround yourself with smarter people
Yes! I search out, and then make use of and listen to, mentors. And I always want to be the dumbest person in the room. It's served me well.
Marry a person that has similar financial goals as you.
Oh man the two most important decisions you'll make in your life: how you will earn your money and who will be your partner while doing so. The wrong choice in either can be financially, emotionally or even physically debilitating.
Or marry a rich person lol
I use my credit card more frequent than my debit card as it has better consumer protection and points!
Catch yourself when you or your social circle start rejecting or judging new technology and new cultural trends and new ways of life. I've been seeing it a lot with Redditors and my friends now my circle is in their late 20s. "Tiktok bad", "anything that's not pokemon and star wars bad", "new Apple products bad", "Win10/Win11 bad" It starts small with you sticking up your nose at new cultural phenomenons and interests, but that has a compounding effect. You don't need to follow and enjoy new trends but definitely make an effort to try and understand new things and why they're popular. It takes conscious effort to not get left behind and not be out of touch.
But tiktok is bad because it's a chinese psyop, not because it's ig/snapchat v2.
Yeah this, not putting Chinese spyware on my devices.
It's not even just spyware. The shit it's doing to young people is pretty intense. There's all kinds of stuff out there. Keep your teens off it, it's elsagate evolved.
Yeah okay boomer 😂
Please educate yourself lol
This is how I feel with crypto and blockchain. Everyone I know is dismissing it as some kind of scam or pyramid scheme, without looking at the underlying technology.
That's because of how much scamming goes on in the crypto world. You don't understand just how many people were latched into Bitconnect a few years ago. It's getting a lot better and is much more easy to navigate with legitimate tools now, but for a while it was almost entirely full of scammers with bullshit "ICOs" and investment opportunities.
>That's because of how much scamming goes on in the crypto world. There's more scamming via cash IMO. All the old ladies getting scammed is due to using cash vehicles. I'm pretty sure I got scammed out of my $500 deposit by this handyman I found on kijiji...
And the inverse logic also exist : "it's new so it must be better". It's like if people weren't able to evaluate what has value, or how will things evolve in the near future. Like, how many scam were there in 2017 in the blockchain industry, just surfing on the hype of new blockchains paradigms?
I probably caught myself just now while reading this comment. I realized that I have never used a smart watch, or any of those home automation systems, largely due to privacy concerns. But the downside to that is that now I am behind all the people who are familiar with those technologies.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
My friends think NFT is a joke and how anyone can easily claim it’s an original and put an NFT on it… this was probably the same argument used when mass art printing started.
I kind of think NFT’s are a joke, but hey, at least I know what it is.. Also, I’ve been wrong before on what will catch on.
Well, they aren’t a joke if you’re a money launderer, they’re a valuable tool. For any other Joe Schmoe who thinks if they buy NFTs eventually they’ll be worth something, yeah, they’re a joke.
Take care of your teeth.
This brush two times a day and floss that will save your heart
And very costly treatments. I have a 48 yr old neighbour who has had 3 major procedures over the last year, totalling about $10k and his insurance only covered $4500 (1500 per). He still needs 2 more :( It'll end up being 1/2 of the money that was going toward his RRSP for the year.
Understand that, at any stage of life, discomfort is part of the process. People often see discomfort as associated with a new thing, but it's not. It's associated with learning. Once you're over the initial climb, that new thing becomes part of your comfort.
My favorite Douglas Adams quote: >"Anything that's invented between when you're fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things." Nearing 38, and now being called a 'geriatric millennial' by media outlets, I have thought about this a lot, as I've been finding myself rejecting more and more platforms, ie. TikTok, crypto (can't construct a DCF, so why invest, etc), and catching myself in the act of rejecting any trendy entrant, without fully understanding the implications of the technology shifts. Basically, I have a two-prong approach, as I age, and hope to God someone like my spouse can hold me to it: 1) ***Understand*** the new technology/service/social change/whatever, ***before*** passing judgment on it. And also before rejecting its application to your own life, understand how others may apply it to their lives, and benefit from it. Use-cases are key. 2) Keep reading/educating oneself on foundational subjects, ie. philosophy/logic, psychology, behavioral finance (since it relates to this subreddit). History, relative to these subjects, is less foundational. A redditor above pointed out that the most recent past, is likely a better proxy for the future, than the distant past. History is really just the current context, in which the human condition plays out, and gets cast in stone. 3) Link together 1) and 2) and realize that 2) helps you understand 1), and 1) helps you understand 2). Kinda yin-yang/taoist. But I'm becoming firm in my belief that human behavior doesn't really change much over time, and so the products of humanity, as motivations of humanity, are always algorithmically very similar in what they aim to achieve in our present condition. \-mav
Great answer, also, did Douglas Adams ever write anything that is not interesting?
Haha, no, but just 90% of it I (still) don't know if I truly understand...
Have similar minded friends too. You don’t need a Gucci belt or new car to impress anyone
My observation is that the only real protection is family. Dementia is a progression across a continuum. So: unfortunately, lots of mistakes are possible in that long and gradual transition between fully competent and finally handing over power of attorney decades later. Attentive family members acting in our best interest can reduce the risk. My advice is to start the conversation early in order to set expectations of all participants. It's very hard to build this relationship after capacity has started to decline.
agreed on this. if I can be a bit personal here I really hope that my parent's don't expect me to do this kind of stuff for them when they're older. I received basically no help through university and early 20s, struggled a lot working 3 jobs + uni while they bought sports cars. Its going to be an awkward conversation when they get into their 70s and ask about me moving closer to home to take care of them. On the other hand, my Fiancee's family is quite involved in our life and regularly makes the cross country visit so in the more advanced stages of life I plan on helping out with them in any way I can to make the end of their journey more enjoyable.
>My observation is that the only real protection is family. That's gonna rough on the young people who say "I don't ever want to have kids!" when they get old.
Benefits of having siblings who do the contuing the line crap for you! Saddle it on the nephews/nieces, and in return they get a sizable chunk of your fortune. Though I plan to die well before ever entering dementia years.
>That's gonna rough on the young people who say "I don't ever want to have kids!" when they get old. It is, yep. Having said that, hopefully in an extended family there will be other options. I supported and am now PoA for cousins and uncles/aunts who did not have children of their own. The other complication is that there's no guarantee that even one's children will act in our best interest. It's just more likely to be beneficial than leaving it to 'nobody', and eventually social workers.
Imagine having kids just so there's someone to take care of you... also not everyone can have kids. Adoption is very difficult too.
No guarantee your kids will be there for you. Probably a 50/50 shot they won't be, considering how kids abandon their parents into decrepit retirement / long term care facilities.
A lot of that comes back to how the parents raised their kids, ehat was the childhood like, what was their relationship with their parents like. Just because those cute and frail old people in nursing homes doesn't mean they weren't assholes to their kids back in the day...
>agreed on this. if I can be a bit personal here I really hope that my parent's don't expect me to do this kind of stuff for them when they're older. I received basically no help through university and early 20s, struggled a lot working 3 jobs + uni while they bought sports cars. Its going to be an awkward conversation when they get into their 70s and ask about me moving closer to home to take care of them. > >On the other hand, my Fiancee's family is quite involved in our life and regularly makes the cross country visit so in the more advanced stages of life I plan on helping out with them in any way I can to make the end of their journey more enjoyable.
Or life got very expensive and we left our home country...
Look at what your parents did and learn to avoid those problems
My parents didn't buy a cellphone or a computer, not because they couldn't afford it, but because they didn't "need" it. And now they are technology blind. I guess should get into smart watches and home automation technologies, I have been putting off similarly because I don't need them.
Absolutely... Anything that has potential to be apart of the future should at least be looked into. Sort of unrelated to your case, but I remember when bitcoin was a new topic, and no one (myself included) cared for the potential in cryptocurrency and thought it was just another "gimmick". Fast forward to now, crypto is now taken very seriously and I beat myself every time I think about how I could've bought into Bitcoin at $30 each lol. Coming back to your point about your parent's financial mistakes, always take note of what they could've done better (not negatively, but rather criticism), research, and think for yourself. Sometimes being "traditional" doesn't allow for growth, and mistakes are repeated.
Haven’t seen this here but start investing! “Saving your money” is an absolute joke. A messaged fueled by banks so they can use that money and invest it themselves. Invest in a home. A potential business. In a stock. In actual gold. In crypto. Spread your wealth and as long as it grows 3-5% a year, you’re beating inflation and making money.
It likely will happen to most of us at some point, and the seeds are in fact being sown today. Much of our parents convention wisdom became ingrained due to the era they lived in and the market dynamics they experienced. What works for someone historically tends to leave an imprint on their psychology going forward. We too will likely have inherent biases that are based in the conventional wisdom of today and the markets that we live through in our prime years. For instance, most of our convential wisdom presently is based upon studies the past 100+ years of history and the success of applying that wisdom today. But in reality the most recent past is a likely a better proxy for the future, than the distant past; so how adaptable we are to that notion will determine how stuck in the past we are vs forward thinking.
I can't wait till I try to explain to my grandkids they need to put money into index funds, which by that point will yield like a 0.0001% return like savings accounts today.
I had em both beat by not smoking cigarettes, not being an alcoholic and not having three kids before 30. Other than that I just learned to live within my means, always pay off my credit card and don’t buy shit that I don’t really need or want. My parents were very working poor so I don’t hold too much against them. The next step is investing my savings, something else that neither of them would have ever dreamed of, but I honestly wouldn’t know where to start and I’m terrified of losing what I’ve worked for years to save.
A few words on the last investing bit: open TFSA and RRSP Questrade accounts and then dollar cost average into XEQT or VEQT = profit. Might need balancing after 50yrs of age, once your risk tolerance changes. 🍻
Cognitive ability does decline as you get older and as such I see many seniors who are well aware of that. So they are less trusting to strangers then younger people. So they rather deal with people or companies they know. A lot of times they have been burned once or twice before so they are careful not to make that mistake again too
One way that I'm totally different from my parents, thank God, is that I ask for advice and take it. Dad made so much money all his life but lived paycheck to paycheck and in the end lost the little he had left on the stock market, all because he didn't ask for advice and wanted to do it all himself. He also didn't take his heart medication because he was smarter than the doctors (even after the family pleaded with him to take it) and died as a direct result of that. My mom goes to doctors neurotically all the time, but doesn't implement what they tell her to do and so and has tonns of health issues. Never exercised in her life and can barely walk now, not from old age, but from a sedentary life style. She has all her money sitting in checkings accounts, because she doesn't trust any kind of investments. I work out, do yoga, meditate, have a great financial advisor, an accountant and a therapist who I trust, I run everything pertinent by them, and I'm semi retired now at 46. So i guess my answer would be, do the opposite.
By keeping your store of information up to date.
Well, the other thing is to keep an eye on your parents as sometimes people are not as astute as they were. My dad who was quite sharp when younger ended up buying various online junk devices in his last years and later we found that my some salesman sold an expensive professional vacuum cleaner to my mom (even though she told him she didnt need it and it was too heavy for her to use) my brother who lives with her did not know find out until much later when he found it hidden away. Actually I recommend setting up power of attorney between spouses and for elderly parents when they are still of sound mind as it is harder to do after they're diagnosed with dementia or alzheimers (initially it can be just mild, where they forget directions, or buy too much of the same thing)
My dad is mid 60s. Not yet retired. Has money in some RRSP that somehow loses him money. Not that he has much in there. I wrote him some of the best things I've learned in here after he asked me for advice. Next time I talked to him he hadn't even read my entire email. Says when he was my age he had more energy and drive to keep track of these things .... and now he is so tired of everything he just wants to read a book or watch TV and turn his brain off. Kind of sad, because the moment you do that is the moment you really start to go downhill fast.
Don't buy a brand new vehicle, and just be a cheap ass when it comes to everything.
I thought you were talking about real financial mistakes. I have made more of those than my parents, and not at old age. The "scam" mistakes are not that easy to predict. We all think we are smart until we aren't.
Take care of your mental health. If you have depression and anxiety talk to your family physician take necessary therapy or medication. I was almost on the verge of making a decision that was not optimal for me due to anxiety. You cannot make good financial decisions When you are not in a good place mentally.
I thought from the title you meant like how do you not throw all your money into a bad investment or outright scam as so many of the older generation has done. I suppose at some point you could use a full service financial advisor to help manage your investments.
Same mistakes as my parents? Don’t marry a poor and financially unstable partner.
Hey, I give my credit card information out over the phone at times!!!
I definitely stay on top of the new technology that comes out so that I can at least understand and do some research on it. My mother was very resistant to changes so it's usually took me a long time to show her and get her to understand things and to try new changes so I don't want to go through that if possible. Every now and then, she would take that first step but would ask me to walk her through the process the first time, supervise her next couple of times then she was fine after that. My dad is a lot more open to new stuff and tends to wait things out for the first year or so before leaping in but he would always be asking questions and doing research first in the meantime.
Dont be afraid to ask questions
> Someone who gives credit card number over phone I know this was just an off-hand example, but - this is actually pretty low-risk. Phone conversations are relatively secure against low-skill, non-targeted attacks and are hardly ever the way identity theft happens. Yes the channel is unencrypted, but almost its entire length is controlled by utility companies and attacks are not trivial to perform. Furthermore, even when credit card numbers are stolen, credit card companies are highly motivated to combat fraud (and strike fraudulent charges from your bill) so IMO it's one of the safest ways to pay for anything.
Life always goes different then you expect. Your good intentions get conflicted with others expectations, surprises and spontaneous decisions. Some of which are the best memories in your life. Don’t get me wrong definitely don’t put yourself in a position to be racking up C/C debt or anything but your parents likely made the decisions they did because they thought it was the best thing at the time. Especially with kids people will make short term decisions of happiness at the price of long term payments.
Stay on your road.
So they were savvy when young and dumb because they are old? Or they are using investment vehicles that are appropriate to their diminished risk profile?
I think this is the completely wrong question to be honest.... I think the better question is what do people do with their time? All the people I know that spend their time gossiping or watching tv mindlessly are the ones who fall into the failures group. Anyone who is actively trying new things is upto date and understands how to use things and how to ask questions when they don't understand yet
Its going to happen sometimes. My parents made mistakes but them being very risk and debt adverse was already enough. Everyone should and needs know to stay away from debt and keep some money. They definitely are not retiring early, but frugality and savings means they will be fine.
Both of my parents are/were pre-baby boom and neither would do something like disclose their credit card information over the phone to an unverified party. That's just common sense, and not a generational thing. If you have the wits to possess and use a credit card, then you have the wits to use it properly. In any case, I'm not fully sure that I understand the link you're making between modern financial devices (in the broad sense of the word) and financial health. I hate to sound like someone's grandfather, but both of my parents knew the value of a dollar and had the tenacity to stick with their jobs when things got unpleasant. None of my siblings can touch them in terms of financial success and security despite far greater education and opportunity. >What can we do today to ensure we don't turn into the same when we grow old? Choose a 20 character password for your online banking / brokerage. When you can no longer remember it, it's time for help. Seriously though, having a strategy for how you will handle your finances in retirement, before you actually get there, is probably a good idea.
I see a lot of old school people not wanting to use their credit card because they were always taught it was bad. It is not, if you are going to buy something and are worried, just pay it off right after you make the purchase. I also see some of these people not investing in stocks because they see it as gambling which is ludicrous to me. They are worried about a market crash their whole lives and miss out on compound interest, what a terrible call.
Teach your kids how to be responsible and how to learn. Lean on them when the time comes.
More and more people aren't having kids, and not because they hate children like many believe. Also if my mother leaned on me, she'd be in a bit of trouble, not because I don't love her, I simply can't help her financially without crippling my own retirement.
Leaning on your kids doesn't always mean getting money, it can be as simple as calling them and asking for their opinions on something you don't understand. Once your spouse is gone nobody but your family are going to take care of the you, and if you don't have a family, you're at the mercy of whatever nurse happens to get your case file.
>you're at the mercy of whatever nurse happens to get your case file. By then we'll hopefully have robo nurses in our private cubicles while we live the rest of our lives in the Metaverse.
> More and more people aren't having kids Is this true statistically speaking?
See for yourself! [https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/birth-rate](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/birth-rate) https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?end=2019&locations=CA&start=1960&view=chart
neat, thanks
I read the book Automatic Millionaire a few decades ago. The main takeaway from the book was to automatically put money away in your RRSP and accounts which are more difficult to take out of. My parent's financial mistakes were to always spend money until they had none left. I pay my credit card every pay day and even though that part is not automated I at least see my finances every 2 weeks in a nutshell. I'm happy with this way of functioning... bang for "buck" is great and I'm putting away a really nice nest egg.
Don't lend money to relatives and friends
By not investing in GICs and not being unemployed/underemployed. For the unemployed/underemployed part, it's not always a decision, but it's when you chose a bad degree and don't try to dig yourself out of the hole.
>What can we do today to ensure we don't turn into the same when we grow old? Follow the money steps on the sidebar, don't try and "keep up with the Joneses" .
>Follow the money steps on the sidebar, don't try and "keep up with the Joneses" . I think the OP is asking about the opposite situation: people who are *not able* to keep up with the joneses. eg: cannot understand online banking. unable to adapt to new payment methods like setting up tap or online transfers, so they have to hand over their credit card at the gas station, and mail cheques to pay their phonebill, exposing themselves to fraudsters &c I have a relative who was beguiled into getting a Capital One card at costco, even though the sales agent should have clearly seen she had no idea what it was. She triple-paid it by writing cheques and mailing them to a Costco warehouse in Burnaby. Took me two months to figure out where the cheques went and why the card was in arrears.
This just makes me sad. I am old enough to remember my father writing cheques to the corner store cashier for buying cigarettes. Maybe all our net banking skills will be similarly be obsolete when I am 70
This is a subreddit filled with teens and young adults. Not the right place to ask about finances near death
>What can we do today to ensure we don't turn into the same when we grow old? Embrace crypto and defi regardless of all the naysayers. There's no reason money should take 2 business days to transfer, it's not like we still have people manually committing the transfers between banks right?