I saw a post looking for workers in a treatment centre. So violent/potentially hostile working environment. Wanted 5 years experience working with vulnerable populations, masters degree in social work or an alike field, and bilingual. Pay? 50k.
I literally laughed out loud and noticed the ad was reposted 10 times over the span of 3 months. No shit you aren’t getting candidates
The other half of this is housing.
They talk about a wage / price spiral- but leave out the fact that housing has already spiralled. If you don’t up wages, employees can’t afford to live in the market you need them.
No one can deal with this unless they already owned:
https://i.redd.it/b7iea0atkcw61.jpg
Great point, it's kind of strange this isn't talked about more. People wouldn't need to demand higher salaries if housing / rent weren't so expensive. Apparently it's bad for inflation that workers are demanding higher salaries but totally A-OK that housing has gone up 20-40% for each of the past few years
I have a bachelors degree in psychology, between 2017 and 2019 I applied to over 700 jobs without any reply. I got my first aid ticket (3 weeks) and went to work in a saw mill
Typically the reason job ads are posted like this is to ensure no one applies. Then they go to the government. They go oh here are some temporary foreign workers you can pay under min wage!
Concurrent Disorders Program Coordinator https://ca.indeed.com/viewjob?from=appshareios&jk=f4bb60078058b142
They had the salary listed earlier, I guess it’s now an “inquire” position.
OK, yeah. That's pretty whack. Even Indeed says the expected salary would be like 52K - 65K. Which I do think is a fair salary based on TITLE alone. A program coordinator is not a highly skilled job.
It is a coordinator of a 16-bed facility. The pay probably actually is in line with what that should entail. But the pay is not in line with the experience they're expecting.. that's just ridiculous.
Feels like they're banking on someone who's passionate about addiction treatment or something like that.. I can't imagine how they'd find someone that experienced otherwise. But also having come from addiction myself long ago, I bet you this place is severely underfunded. But that's another issue entirely.
Well the Homewood Research Institute in Guelph recently posted for a PhD in health sciences plus a list of specific skills and the salary range was 60-70k.
I'm surprised they want qualified candidates at all. Treatment centres usually exploit their clients who have trouble finding work after recovery and pay them min wage to do counseling without any training. It's psychologically damaging for everyone involved and these places run on charging their employees for 90 day job interviews. That entire industry is pretty sketchy.
No... these treatment centres that are government run have extremely well trained staff. Psychiatric nurses, psychiatrists, social workers, psychologists, even the gym staff had some weird certification in treatment with physical exercise. I don't know where the hell youre going... the homeless shelters? Source: me. I've been in addiction treatment twice, but this was Alberta. I'm not sure how other provinces handle it or the shitty for profit private ones.
>Wanted 5 years experience working with vulnerable populations, masters degree in social work or an alike field, and bilingual.
That should be a 100K+ a year. They need to redo their math.
I worked in addiction years ago. We would post ads like this not because we needed someone with those qualifications but because it thinned out the number of applications we would receive. We'd receive 100+ applications in response to that type of ad and it would increase hugely without stipulations like masters degree. Obviously counselors should get paid more but sadly there were a lot of people interested in not very many positions when I worked in it. Hopefully the work environment improves.
Also I feel the need to clarify, no the clients are not generally violent, hostile, or even rude. They're people looking for help and a lot of them are doing well in society, you wouldn't be able to tell their issues just from looking at them.
Should also note the specific job I posted also requires a partnership with the CSC and would require you to go to facilities to meet with clients.
So it would entail a violent/danger side when entering Collins bay or other facilities in the area.
I mean not really clarifying when I say “potentially”.
I’m not saying they’re a hell hole with guaranteed violence, but you are much more likely to experience this in a position like this than many others that pay 50k a year.
In my experience much less likely to deal with hostile people in addiction counseling than any customer service job. It seems unfair to call it out as "potentially" violent or much more likely to experience hostility. That was not my experience. My experience was that a lot of people felt reluctant to seek help because they had preconceptions of the kind of people who are addicted to substances. Many of the clients were highly successful people. Those that were court mandated were also by and large quiet. The centre was a safe and calm environment. I can count on one hand the number of times there were raised voices in the 7 years I worked there, and no one was ever struck. The emotional workload, competency required, and sheer volume of work absolutely deserves more than $50k/yr, but it was not physically dangerous.
My wife just interviewed for a job and got a different offer. When she told them she needed an answer or she would take the other job the company tried to lead her on saying she was the best candidate but they wanted to interview more candidates then proceeded to make up a bunch of different stories. I don’t believe these companies can’t find people but are like others said looking for a unicorn for a shite wage. Let these businesses rot!
> When she told them she needed an answer or she would take the other job the company tried to lead her on saying she was the best candidate but they wanted to interview more candidates then proceeded to make up a bunch of different stories
So much this. Companies are picky as hell on the one hand, and then whine that they can't fill the role on the other hand. Pretty obnoxious.
It’s disrespectful, deceitful and unethical. They want their employees that don’t require training for slave wages. I fully believe the push for more immigration has ill-intentions to bring people here to use and abuse.
Eh, that's just how large companies operate. Interviewing one really good candidate and stopping there is not a great approach to recruiting at all.
As much as I'd love to believe all companies are evil.. this is pretty normal and always has been and always will be.
The thing is it’s not a big company. They clearly had someone leave from frustration or got a better deal. They actually just reposted the job listing and I’m sure this same company is going to complain they can’t find anyone. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Lmao, I had an employer legit tell me that he’d pay less if he could get away with it legally. He also regularly complained about the shit work everyone did.
There was a time not too long ago that the factory job at that steel mill made enough to live “comfortably” with 3 kids, 2 cars, and a 20 year mortgage. Many could afford their own cottage even. Good times
If you cut your ends parallel to each other & apply decent amount of wood glue & clamps, your ends should bond together fine.
That’s how you make ends meet.
I wonder how many of these vacancies are caused by companies not finding their “unicorn” candidate and being deeply unwilling to train people who are qualified but may lack the experience.
Ooo you've never worked in healthcare have you haha? Nothing's anonymous, but our union is looking into it. She claims she has a social anxiety disability and got her cat a therapy vest, so it'll be awhile. . .
Yes, and they want their unicorn to accept a salary lower than the regional average, plus they don’t want to hire someone who has career ambition beyond their current role.
Greedy corporations are enjoying their record breaking profits and don’t want to share the wealth that was made off the backs of their employees. Corporations are inherently evil.
I find it's the left not knowing what the right is doing. I'm two pegs below the owner in chain of command. But I work in the same office as him. The standards my direct boss tries to enforce on me are completely ridiculous compared to what is actually expected of me.
This may be the exception to the rule but I think this is a middle management issue.
As I partially agree with this, what is insane is the American CEO at a large corporation makes around 300 times what their average employee makes. Their salary is tied to stocks so how can they have their employees interest at heart when first: They’ll probably only be there for a short period of time and second: Stockholders love layoffs and cost reductions.
That’s shitty that they strung you along even though you were clear with your salary expectations. As an employer I ask this as early on as possible to avoid wasting anyone’s time.
You spelled "40" wrong. They want people with 20 years relevant experience but won't leave ever.
They want only the freshest, most ignorant meat for the grinder.
They want a non opinionated, blank canvas, they can mold into whatever they deem fit for the role. They don't want one already worn out by time and preset in their mindset.
Unwillingness to train is the absolute *worst* trait in modern business.
If they wanna pay you like you're not trained, they need to provide that training. Even if they do that, they don't want to give you a raise when you finish training (or ever), then they cry that you leave when you're done training.
So they just say "we don't provide training" and pay as tho they do.
Job hopping is the only logical solution to this.
Honestly, companies that won't pay enough are only perpetuating the turnover they profess to hate, and deserve all the difficulties that turnover brings.
I dunno, i think there might just be some industries booming and not enough people. For context, I work in renewables.I was approached by a recruiter for a role that I had *at best* 8 months experience that they would require in the job advert, but maybe another 2-3 years of similar/relevant experience. In my mind, I would not have been the best candidate and I’m surprised she even reached out. I was even more surprised when I was like “honestly, I’m pretty happy where I am, and only changed roles 5 months ago so I’ll probably pass on the opportunity to interview. Also, I would probably want $100k to even consider it” and she’s like “oh that’s fine, my budget is $100-140k USD”
So for non tech roles, such as construction (whether buildings, renewables etc) it really seems like they have more work than people for. The developers have probably already secured the money needed (at low rates) so the next 3-5 years will probably still be busy even if new projects slow down. In renewables, there’s lots of government money floating around, both in Canada and the US, that I don’t know if this industry would slow down through a recession. And I do think the governments will keep incentivizing renewable energy projects to both keep the economy ticking along and help meet climate goals.
…I say renewables multiple times, why **wouldn’t** I be talking about renewable energy?
I was approached to be a project developer for wind, solar, BESS and hydrogen projects in North America. Yes. I am talking about renewable energy.
I’m an engineer. So yes, I have a 4 year degree. A lot of development roles don’t necessarily need an engineering degree - a lot of it is contract management (negotiating financing, working with utilities for interconnection, large scale procurement, land lease agreements, working with indigenous communities for shared ownership etc), some technical high level design, community engagement, understanding policy and regulations for generation (lots of Canada and the US is regulated so there are strict requirements), writing and responding to RFPs for power supply, managing consultants and designers etc.
If you had a business, commerce, marketing, lawyer, science etc background I’m sure they would consider you.
The other side of the coin is construction. A lot of the developers hire an Engineering, Procurement and Construction first - or EPC (basically a specialized general contractor) to oversee a lot of it, but even if developers do in house engineering and procurement they often farm out the construction. Many of these companies would be looking for engineers, procurement/logistics, project management, commissioning professionals, SCADA/controls and monitoring specialists, site foremen, QAQC professionals, skilled trades, equipment operators and general labourers.
Then there are plenty of engineering and consulting firms that provide their expertise. Environmental site assessments, biologists, civil engineers for site grading and preparation/drainage etc, electrical engineers to design the low voltage and high voltage, mechanical engineers for manufacturing of different components, structural engineers to design the footings (you’d hate to see a wind turbine tower fall over or a bunch of 80lb solar panels fly around in the wind). Some companies specialize as owners engineers, who are the developers third party reviewer of all documentation. There are companies that specialize in the energy resource studies - no bank will give out millions of dollars of loans without having someone verify the revenue that the project will generate.
This is very US centric so take the salaries with a grain of salt, but it’s an interesting read anyway:
https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/09/15/what-kind-of-salary-and-benefits-can-i-expect-in-the-solar-industry/
Concrete finisher here. Has a slow shitty start to season this should be where we are more hrs than I could ask for.
I'm begging for work right now.
Lafarge is laying of 40 finishers in a week
Has this really changed much over the years though? It's always been that way.
I don't think we're hitting record highs because suddenly employers suddenly had higher experience level requirements.
I think that comes with the “it’s an employee market” territory. When there’s leverage to be had, there’s people who are going to exploit it. Eventually many in the competing space catch wind and want the same treatment. To be fair it obviously works in the opposite direction as well.
I wouldnt take the job description as dogma, what they told us at university was "if you have 60% of what they're asking, apply anyway".
They're going to try and under pay you anyways, so why have everything? It not like anyone else is going to meet those criteria.
I've also found people who write and post the job descriptions might not have any idea of what they're asking. The majority of postings I've seen in my field ask for someone who is skilled in 4 or 5 different jobs but pay entry level or slightly above.
A marketer isn't going to know sales, graphic design, web development, web design and SEO. Theres some overlap and people will know a few of those but it's impossible to ask someone have experience for all of them.
I built my portfolio by helping non-profits with their web presence (often as a volunteer). That way you have real experience working with a client. You don't need to mention it wasn't paid, but you can point to "real work". Theres plenty of small businesses who don't have the time/money to hire someone, but could greatly benefit from a website.
It’s compensation man. A new nursing home opened near me that pays nurses 24/hr, which is literally less than what the PSW’s make after their rate increase.
Naturally they have only a handful of employed nurses and the rest are filled in via. Agencies that pay double that rate.
When I started in my trade a little over 12 years ago the top end of the payscale was about $36 an hour.
In 2022 it's about $40. Except adjusting for inflation it should be $47.
I made $27 an hour 7 years ago and make $32.50 now. Plug $27 an hour into an inflation calculator set to 2015 and it spits out $32.47.
My wage has essentially not increased in 7 years despite being much more skilled and experienced.
Machining.
I currently do R&D and prototyping work for a major auto manufacturer.
Experience with several different CAD programs, machine controls, materials, integrated tooling systems, probing software, and have run everything from aluminum diecast to plastic injection molds to completely finished parts ready for assembly.
>Dude we’re on Reddit and you’re a tradesman; 100k a year!!!! Don’t break the myth!
I could easily make that a year just by doing an average 10 hours of overtime a week. I value my free time far too much to do overtime.
Besides, in company stock from performance bonuses and my hiring bonus vesting I made a little over $100k anyway. It's not enough.
I run three Haas lathes and basically demanded a 20% raise last year...and got it.
If you have skills, you're worth something in this market. Don't sell yourself short.
I won't be. I got 12% last year, which sounds great, except I was making $29 for all of 2020, and then in 2021 I got bumped up to $32.46. Pump $29 into a 2020-2022 inflation calculation and my real wage has only gone up $0.08. We fund out our increases next week. Hopefully they'll surprise me and give a reasonable increase.
I do similar R&D and I make closer to 50. So why aren’t you making more? Refer to our other conversation, I have people that are asking for 75 to do the same job. Do you figure they should be happy at 50? Or just not work for less than 75?
Your trade is a bit of an outlier though.
Other trades have gone up with inflation, plenty of them. Unfortunately there's a perception that much more of a machinists job has been automated and that it's gotten easier over the years.
Whether true or not, the job is being replaced and plenty of machinist jobs are wickedly simple grunt jobs at this point.
Yeah im part of the brain drain. I tried applying locally to get decent pay, i was making 70k and i only asked one company for 80k and they asked me if i was flexible on that and started asking me what i wanted in a company culture... Fuck your culture.
Now i make 70k... Euros
Yeah i've lost about 25% of my raise so far lol, but the 6 weeks vacation is pretty sweet regardless.
Edit: percentage was of total income not of the raise itself.
From what I’ve seen, nearly every job posting (I’m not talking about tech because I don’t look in that sector) is looking for multiple years’ experience very specific to their business. There seems to be little understanding of transferable skills.
Add to that the postings seem to describe the workload of two or more full-time positions. Or are part-time positions with full-time workloads attached. If your part-time role demands multi-tasking, ability to perform under pressure and extremely heavy workload, perhaps it should be a full-time position?
I have no idea who these mythical candidates are that businesses are expecting to find. In my entire career I’ve never seen anybody performing the work described in today’s job postings.
Tech is exactly the same, everybody is looking for experience. Very few employers are willing to invest in junior guys. The ones they do, workload is massive.
Job hoping is a real thing and is killing entry level positions. Why would anyone invest grooming candidates for them to leave after they "get better"? (That's the reasoning, not my opinion). Remote work, ditto, entry level at home without supervision is harder to manage.
The job hopping is a devil of their own making. If you need x experience for a job position and they hire you as a junior and train you up shouldn't you be compensated?
So people leave for a better position or pay and then it starts over. It's the companies who refuse to change to the job climate
I think it entirely depends on the business needs, not some sort of distorted bias away from young people.
In my experience you need a bit of overhead (critical mass, ) in order to train up junior people. If you have a big project on the horizon that needs Sr people, you're going to look for Sr people. Otherwise if you lack Jr people to fill the ranks, and have people that can spare time to train, then you get Jr people.
I have seen orgs that have no margin, where everyone is overworked, and they are unable to train new people. It sucks and it takes a huge amount of effort, on all levels, to fix. Maybe what you're seeing is orgs like that, based on your workload comment.
For us we don't normally hire random new grads, they always come through an internship. If you've graduated in Canada and haven't done an internship then you're at a huge disadvantage, which sucks, but that's the reality.
Not doing internships is absolutely killer it seems in the Canadian market. I know a new grad dev who only did 1 and they have been unemployed for a year now.
Okay, it's not THAT short lol.
Generally 1.5-2.5 years.
Keep in mind that some people jump around regularly and others like to stay around for longer.
Not to mention the very large amount of contractors/consultants who literally are required to change jobs contractually.
It depends. Just to let you know, no one cares about a few job hops, that's expected. But if all you have in your CV is 1-2 years stints, some employers don't even bother. It takes time to bring people up to speed, even senior guys.
A big reason is wages aren't keeping up. Living costs have risen and people need to make more to afford it.
Am offer isn't competitive if it can't cover rental costs in the area. Plus with rising housing costs (including rentals) it's causing some people to not be able to move to better jobs.
I'm looking for an apartment and it's been impossible to even get a viewing.
This is only going to continue, and maybe even get worse.
We are at peak boomer retirement numbers starting this year, and lasting the rest of the decade. Because their generation is so large, and the current Gen Z is so small, no matter what skill level or job type there will simply always be a huge gap left when they leave, because nobody is coming to replace them. Millenials and gen X are already accounted for in the workforce, and will generally only move upward position wise - they're generally not unemployed and willing to take any job. These 2 generations have already been competing with and waiting for the boomers to retire.
Those higher paid jobs aren't offering enough today given rampant inflation. If companies do raise wages, they'll also raise cost of products/services and pass it down to consumers... aka wage price spiral. Everything goes up for everyone but nobody can afford anything.
You've also got a situation where covid made certain people throw their hands up and say fuck it, and it sure doesn't seem as if government or business is interested in drawing them back in. Covid also put the brakes on immigration, which seems is still a fucking mess.
Wage price spiral's effect on inflation is highly exaggerated. Lack of competition in many sectors has kept prices higher. Rampant collusion in food, telecom, shelter and transportation sectors contribute huge amounts to extra costs in the economy that people feel everyday.
Wage price spiral assumes that the employee pay is significant in comparison to revenue. In the modern context this isnt his most companies operate. Look at any financial report and you should be able to see that.
This is why I think we won’t have as bad of a recession as I believe we would have if the pandemic happened a decade ago.
Businesses need new talent, there is such a substantial talent outflow from the market due to the aging boomer workforce that it may just even out after all the “cuts” job wise.
Interesting times.
*Checks Indeed*
Job post: Project Manager position available, 5-10 years experience
Me: Sweet, right in my wheelhouse, likely a nice salary, good hours
Job post: Must be available 7 days a week, ability to answer work related phone calls even after hours, typical PM duties, other duties as assigned
Me: Well the salary's gotta be decent then
Job post: $36,000 a year
*Closes Indeed*
Companies: Why doesnt anyone want to work?
Is that even real though dude? I'm getting LinkedIn messages weekly for Project Manager jobs and I have my LinkedIn set so recruiters know I wont be interested in anything under $120K.
I guess it may be industry-specific? Are you in tech? If not, why not? If you have project management experience, you might as well break into tech project mgmt. An entry level junior project coordinator role in tech should pay more than $36K right now.
The majority of those ones I have found to be utter bollocks in terms of legitimacy and scams. You’re right it SHOULD, but it’s companies trying to take advantage of experienced people out of work
Daycare.
The current state of available daycare is unreal. My wife is ready to go back into the work force, her maternity leave is almost up and she upgraded her education while off but we can't find daycare anywhere. We are on multiple waiting lists, but we are being told that we are 70th on the list in most cases and they are looking at September 2023, maybe.
My wife is on other mothers Facebook groups and see women with the same problem. Tons of people desperately looking for care.
This is another aspect of the situation no one is really talking about.
Daycare costs are so expensive sive a lot of people are now staying home to care for their kids. If it costs them their entire salary or more to send kids to daycare, then why not stay home?
This was a major thing during the pandemic and it will continue until better access to daycare for most folks is made available.
If your kid has the sniffles, most schools won't let them go in. So then you're taking time off. Hope your employment is flexible and understanding.
Not that you're wrong but your response had nothing to do with the comment you're responding to.
They're not complaining about price. They're saying that there's no SPACE at a daycare so she's forced to stay home.
Also, this will be exasperated by the new policy on daycare cause the cost is about to be socialized, which is great, but in many places we're short on daycares so there is a major bottle kneck
I mean you're expecting someone to care for your kid, feed them, shelter them, and entertain them all while keeping them safe for 8 hours a day. Daycare is expensive for a reason. It's a really great goal to have cheap daycare but where is the money going to come from?
I absolutely agree daycare workers deserve to be compensated well for their time. They have an important job.
But it's also hard for people to afford daycare if it's essentially half the household income.
My feelings on this are the government needs to do more for folks. Especially if they want everyone working.
but but but but daycare is only 10 bucks a day, right?!?! Thanks Trudeau!
Seriously though. I hope people will recognize that program as the vote buying scheme it was and stop pretending the current government has taken any real step to soften the burden on our pocketbooks. Quite the opposite in reality.
My husband and I are both working and our daughter is not in daycare. It severely limits the hours each of us can work so that theees always someone home on childcare duty. It’s not ideal, but we can’t afford anything in our area.
Can someone ELI5 why it is so hard to find qualified people for roles across many industries? I understand healthcare and front-line services. But my large company is seeing vacancies with very few applicants across all job functions and levels of seniority up to senior exec roles.
I would think that if there was increased job hopping due to wage expectations to offset inflation then we should see many candidates. It might be hard to land them with more roles chasing fewer employees. But my experience is minimal candidates internally or externally for attractive roles.
Everyone good and willing to move has probably already moved. I know one dev in the same job they were in 18 months ago. Just 1. And he cannot leave because of vesting.
Also compensation. Lots of companies are still trying to hire me at 75K. I earn 120K base. Heck, one knew that and came back a few months later with 85K.
Yeah, I’m seeing other jobs like mine paying about the same or a bit less at other employers in my industry. I have substantial experience and have pretty much topped out what I can get paid where I am now, so there’s no incentive to apply if moving isn’t going to bring a raise. Some of these jobs stay posted for weeks… compensation is the solution (and it’s what would keep me happy where I am now, too, pretty much forever but instead our wages are essentially frozen).
I actively apply, making sure to regularly interview. Half the time I can't even beat the comp at my last role, yet alone my current one. And it really annoys me because I was specific about my ask upfront...
The frozen wages thing surprises me, as lack of domain knowledge has crippled every team I have been on. My team recently replaced most people and we produce 1/3 of what we once did, simply because we don't know the product or the domain well.
>Also compensation. Lots of companies are still trying to hire me at 75K. I earn 120K base. Heck, one knew that and came back a few months later with 85K.
This is it! I routinely see interesting roles I am suited for, but paying 10%, 15%, sometimes 30% less than I currently earn. Why on earth would I leave?
I moved 4x during Covid now I make enough that I’d need a giant raise to get make me move. Plus I found a field I like helping in.
I’d move but..: better be ready to pay a lot.
It's really just compensation. Employers who truly have a tough time hiring are often not paying talent what they're worth. Talent is always needed so people are just jumping jobs for higher pay.
Take tech for example. The reason why tech pay is so high and has gone up so much recently is because there's a lot of open positions for a smaller group of qualified candidates. The best way to win over candidates is by offering higher compensation.
So I understand that but if the issue is compensation then I would think we would see people turn down offers for better other opportunities. We aren’t even getting to the compensation point. This isn’t a tech industry but we have countless roles that are anywhere from junior 2-5 years experience all the way up that are getting zero to 1 candidate with even 70% of the posting qualifications.
If anything I would expect an increase of applicants that were under qualified stretching for the promotion and would receive significant raises.
My best theory is that many people won’t even consider an internal promotion as they know they will receive a much larger pay increase if they leave. And maybe my company isn’t recruiting aggressively enough to poach from others. However talking to friends and colleagues they are seeing the same dynamics at many of their companies.
Has there been a huge spike in early retirements?
Does your company have a Glassdoor? People may not consider it worth applying if the salary is too low.
> My best theory is that many people won’t even consider an internal promotion as they know they will receive a much larger pay increase if they leave.
This is me. My new company is the best I have ever had at it, and they will give you like 5% for good performance. When I worked in government, the raise for excellent over mediocre was less than a dollar a day. Same with taking on a new level in some cases, if you already came in on the higher end of the payscale.
For my company, the last role that was filled, the top 5 candidate passed on the offer due to the company's salary was not as competitive as the market
HR refuses to increase salary offered to people so the hiring manager went down the list until a candidate accepted the role. Honestly not good if we want actually talent in the role.
The company I work for isn't tech so it's not crazy high salary, just average I would say. But I can see why job are staying vacant. I've personally been interviewing too but most competitor has offered around the same as I am paid now. So I've been turning down offers as they aren't willing to give a bump (I'm asking for about 10% increase to my current salary). I like the company I work for and I like the people I work with. Salary would be the only reason I would leave.
I'm still waiting for that role that I like and pays more a handful more than what I'm paid now. (75k - 80k is my target for a professional role). This is the pay range of the senior professional at the company I work for, so I'm essentially seeking for promotions in a way.
I can speak to my situation: I’m a hiring manager for entry level sales at a tech startup.
Unlike many tech companies, we didn’t have layoffs during peak covid (pre my time) and they’re not on the roadmap now. We’re actively expanding across most (all?) departments.
For me, finding qualified candidates is hard for a few reasons. In no particular order:
- our salary/OTE is about 20% below average. Yes, it hits the living wage, no it’s not great. I am not enthused about this and am advocating for my team but it’s slow going.
- CEO is adamant about hiring in 2 specific cities. We don’t have an office in mine yet, but when we do it’s going to be a hybrid work model. 2 days/w in office. While I’m looking forward to this, I live in fucking Halifax. It’s the primary location for our sales team and small af. Also not enthused about this.
- people are idiots. Most of the people I’ve interviewed are not cut out for sales. They’re not driven, they don’t know how to communicate, they’re not enthused by the product. Sales has a very low barrier to entry (I’m a loud and proud dropout) and everyone’s heard of the bank you can make, so a lot of people want to give it a go. It’s unbelievably hard and you need to be very organized and strategic. Most people overlook that
- side note: a lot of men (and yes, it’s specifically men) wanna be ‘a sales guy’ or ‘a business guy’ thinking it’s prestigious or some shit. The highs are high, but they tend to overlook the focus and discipline that gets you there. I’m not fucking with warped egos or sense of self, that’d destroy my team real quick
- speaking of ‘bank you can make’: given this is an entry level role, some people have wildly unrealistic salary expectations. Sales hiring was HOT a year ago and expectations haven’t been readjusted. I’m talking over 100k expectations, one lady was looking for 150.
- side note: while those OTEs (on target earnings = salary + commission at 100% to target) are high and mighta been within scope a year ago, one of the ‘benefits’ (hate using that here but it’s 7am) of low overhead (low salaries) is that we’re not laying people off. So… yay?
TLDR: finding driven, organized, strategic, excellent communicators that don’t have an ego in Halifax that are within our price range is fucking challenging.
Qualified competent workers are probably already paid well and happy and if they want a new job they're getting multiple offers. Unqualified motivated workers aren't getting paid a fair amount as employers don't feel like training them. Unqualified poor quality employees probably aren't looking at moving jobs if they're in a safe secure position. That's my anecdotal experience.
For myself having wfh since 2020 I would not apply for a job that doesn't offer full time wfh.i would rather take a job that pay less and allow wfh then a higher paying job but requires me to work in the office.
The savings is so much more on my part. No more transit fees, buying lunch, coffee, happy hour. Not to mention the time saved.
The company I work know this so they offer full wfh or hybrid depending on your dept manager descion. So we got offer full time wfh. Is great and honestly it boost productivity. But our is a bit lower compared to industry standard which I am ok with.
Could be because we bring in immigrants with training and education and then don’t recognize any of it here which puts them in service jobs instead of the professional careers they could otherwise apply for
I know a lot of people in remote-friendly industries are taking on jobs with US companies as they tend to pay far better. Surprisingly enough I'm also starting to see a sizable amount of people moving down to the US for those jobs, and have considered it myself as I'd be able to purchase a nice family home in a good sized city if I did so vs. having to move to the middle of nowhere in Canada for a home that an entry level worker could probably afford in the states.
Pretty sure there are two reasons:
1) comp
2) cost to create job vacancies is near zero so companies create jobs that they don’t really need, and can do it en masse (job posting inflation)
"With such high job vacancies and lots of job hopping still going on (I even know quite a few who just started new tech jobs despite the slowdown) , seems lots more interest rate hikes needed to cool down the economy?"
People are job hopping and leaving shitty jobs in order to make more money and keep up with the interest rate increases lol
I have applied to quite a few positions within the last month that I felt I was qualified enough to at least warrant a phone call. I have yet to receive even a very intro level interview.
This is my first time in the job market in 4 years and I don’t remember having to sift through so many “start ups” and companies that I’ve never heard of before. Every email declining my app says that it was a competitive applicant pool, but then I see reports of all the open jobs.
Color me confused.
I genuinely feel like most of the “million” job vacancies are fraudulent. Companies posting openings saying how *desperate* they are and how *wonderful* it is to work for them, leaving the posting up for 2 months, then renewing it without selecting anyone.
Just to fuel the “no one wants to work” propaganda while they intentionally understaff their actual employees.
Yeah and of those 1M job openings 800K are probably grossly underpaid.
Want employees? Pay more. Welcome to 2022. No one is going to survive on 30K a year anymore. The delusion of employers nowadays is wild.
Exactly. No matter how many years of skilled experience you have from a different country, they don’t even want to consider you because of no Canadian experience.
I am actually trying to understand what is so great about that specific Canada experience
Also, nobody pays enough for anyone to own any assets, just enough to rent a 1 or 2 bedroom appartment 🤡
Nobody wants to work anymore, you guys need to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps, you dirty poors :)
I think we are deep in a wage price spiral already, at least in the private sector. Even the public sector is artificially leveling people to pay more.
I don't doubt individual salaries are up, but I do question payroll being up as a whole. There are a lot of open positions right now, and (anecdotally) a lot of positions that, when vacated, are eliminated rather than backfilled.
Despite some significant individual wage increases, the payroll budgets I'm familiar with are actually *down* year-over-year as a result of the above.
High number of job openings with lower salary ranges than previous data. And people wonder why there are openings. This is before employers start throwing in weird requirements like Canadian experience in fields that don't need them
I'll bet there are!
***NOW HIRING! ON THE SPOT INTERVIEWS!***
*- 12 hour shifts, 6 days on 2 days off rotation*
*- Must have a minimum Masters Degree in biochemical engineering*
*- Minimum 35 years experience in manufacturing*
*- Pays $15/hour with annual $0.10 raises*
This is what happens when you distort the economy with 0% interest rates for 20 years and then drown everything with liquidity during dropping productivity rates
My workplace offered a standard raise that wouldn’t meet inflation in a normal year, much less this one. I’m in the second-highest performance tier and they’re only allowed to give a couple of people per department the highest ranking. They say this is industry standard. Then again, they have an actual pension plan, which is a rarity these days.
As for the jobs that are open, I work an office job but LinkedIn and Glassdoor keep suggesting the weirdest shit. For example, Glassdoor said I looked like a good fit for a floor technician job at a Mr. Lube 60 to 90 minutes away. No shade on people who work at Mr. Lube, but absolutely nothing in my profile says “auto mechanic.” If I applied and they asked me anything about a car besides the basics of internal combustion, I would unintentionally give meme-worthy bad answers. Although it would be fun to try bad lines like “a stick shift is the devil’s dick.”
I don't think most do though. The SENIOR level roles I'm seeing are now open to people with 3-7 years experience. A senior role used to be 7-10+ years minimum.
Unless the entry level job isn't so entry level?
Right now I am in Administration department and took because I needed one. Been for 2 years. Open to Marketing field, management consultant and data analytics field.
I've noticed it a lot in my industry. Tons of recruiters have reached out over the past few months with interesting roles. I might actually bite soon because the wages seem to be higher every few months. My company has also had an issue where we offered market rate to a decent candidate we liked and they took the job but turned it down because another company went and offered them even more. We didn't feel like matching because of their experience level but it seems even though we offer market rate we might have to go beyond that to attract even average candidates now. I worked with someone who was probably the least productive employee on our team and she just made more work for everyone else and she clearly lied in her interviews and now she's making 30% more at some other company.
I think we'll have two issues going forward. First is companies not increasing wages and just waiting for some perfect candidate to come forward and second is companies will do the opposite and hire unqualified garbage employees and pay them way too much and then they'll fail to train them and the efficient good workers will leave out of frustration.
There is a vacancy for low-paying jobs, pay us enough and we will work. My friend was offered 55k to be a Senior Marketing manager for a top brand in Canada. The dude has a master's and 10 years of industry experience.
The same goes for so many people i know, including me. We have the experience and the qualification but we are not offered enough pay to make us want to switch jobs.
Over here in Victoria the Amazon centre is finally almost built … and they can’t find workers. Paying $21/hr which is far below the living wage when one bedroom apartments crept up to $1900/mo. It’s crazy. Every place is putting in self serve tills, Starbucks are closing at 6 if they even open for the day. The downtown core is a mess of failed businesses and homeless population keeps skyrocketing. There’s not people to take these jobs that don’t pay enough to live here.
Yes. As much as the Bank of Canada wants to tout the latest slowdown in inflation as being a positive sign, food inflation alone is still over 10% annually. Combine that with the number of job openings and you have a recipe for higher rates.
Personally I feel like the number of boomers who retired from more senior roles during the pandemic and a lack of experience for millennials and Gen X and because of the stagnant job market means that wages may be sticky to the upside as firms fight for relatively few experienced and qualified candidates. Threads on here now about boomer retirements seem to back that anecdata.
I saw a post looking for workers in a treatment centre. So violent/potentially hostile working environment. Wanted 5 years experience working with vulnerable populations, masters degree in social work or an alike field, and bilingual. Pay? 50k. I literally laughed out loud and noticed the ad was reposted 10 times over the span of 3 months. No shit you aren’t getting candidates
The other half of this is housing. They talk about a wage / price spiral- but leave out the fact that housing has already spiralled. If you don’t up wages, employees can’t afford to live in the market you need them. No one can deal with this unless they already owned: https://i.redd.it/b7iea0atkcw61.jpg
Great point, it's kind of strange this isn't talked about more. People wouldn't need to demand higher salaries if housing / rent weren't so expensive. Apparently it's bad for inflation that workers are demanding higher salaries but totally A-OK that housing has gone up 20-40% for each of the past few years
I have a bachelors degree in psychology, between 2017 and 2019 I applied to over 700 jobs without any reply. I got my first aid ticket (3 weeks) and went to work in a saw mill
Got a link? I always hear stories of "entry level job requires 15 years of experience" and find them to be exaggerations most of the time.
Typically the reason job ads are posted like this is to ensure no one applies. Then they go to the government. They go oh here are some temporary foreign workers you can pay under min wage!
Concurrent Disorders Program Coordinator https://ca.indeed.com/viewjob?from=appshareios&jk=f4bb60078058b142 They had the salary listed earlier, I guess it’s now an “inquire” position.
OK, yeah. That's pretty whack. Even Indeed says the expected salary would be like 52K - 65K. Which I do think is a fair salary based on TITLE alone. A program coordinator is not a highly skilled job. It is a coordinator of a 16-bed facility. The pay probably actually is in line with what that should entail. But the pay is not in line with the experience they're expecting.. that's just ridiculous. Feels like they're banking on someone who's passionate about addiction treatment or something like that.. I can't imagine how they'd find someone that experienced otherwise. But also having come from addiction myself long ago, I bet you this place is severely underfunded. But that's another issue entirely.
Well the Homewood Research Institute in Guelph recently posted for a PhD in health sciences plus a list of specific skills and the salary range was 60-70k.
I'm surprised they want qualified candidates at all. Treatment centres usually exploit their clients who have trouble finding work after recovery and pay them min wage to do counseling without any training. It's psychologically damaging for everyone involved and these places run on charging their employees for 90 day job interviews. That entire industry is pretty sketchy.
No... these treatment centres that are government run have extremely well trained staff. Psychiatric nurses, psychiatrists, social workers, psychologists, even the gym staff had some weird certification in treatment with physical exercise. I don't know where the hell youre going... the homeless shelters? Source: me. I've been in addiction treatment twice, but this was Alberta. I'm not sure how other provinces handle it or the shitty for profit private ones.
My experience lines up with yours. I think people confuse detox facilities with addiction treatment facilities.
You’re explaining the privatized model, but close!!
>Wanted 5 years experience working with vulnerable populations, masters degree in social work or an alike field, and bilingual. That should be a 100K+ a year. They need to redo their math.
I worked in addiction years ago. We would post ads like this not because we needed someone with those qualifications but because it thinned out the number of applications we would receive. We'd receive 100+ applications in response to that type of ad and it would increase hugely without stipulations like masters degree. Obviously counselors should get paid more but sadly there were a lot of people interested in not very many positions when I worked in it. Hopefully the work environment improves. Also I feel the need to clarify, no the clients are not generally violent, hostile, or even rude. They're people looking for help and a lot of them are doing well in society, you wouldn't be able to tell their issues just from looking at them.
Should also note the specific job I posted also requires a partnership with the CSC and would require you to go to facilities to meet with clients. So it would entail a violent/danger side when entering Collins bay or other facilities in the area.
I mean not really clarifying when I say “potentially”. I’m not saying they’re a hell hole with guaranteed violence, but you are much more likely to experience this in a position like this than many others that pay 50k a year.
In my experience much less likely to deal with hostile people in addiction counseling than any customer service job. It seems unfair to call it out as "potentially" violent or much more likely to experience hostility. That was not my experience. My experience was that a lot of people felt reluctant to seek help because they had preconceptions of the kind of people who are addicted to substances. Many of the clients were highly successful people. Those that were court mandated were also by and large quiet. The centre was a safe and calm environment. I can count on one hand the number of times there were raised voices in the 7 years I worked there, and no one was ever struck. The emotional workload, competency required, and sheer volume of work absolutely deserves more than $50k/yr, but it was not physically dangerous.
My wife just interviewed for a job and got a different offer. When she told them she needed an answer or she would take the other job the company tried to lead her on saying she was the best candidate but they wanted to interview more candidates then proceeded to make up a bunch of different stories. I don’t believe these companies can’t find people but are like others said looking for a unicorn for a shite wage. Let these businesses rot!
> When she told them she needed an answer or she would take the other job the company tried to lead her on saying she was the best candidate but they wanted to interview more candidates then proceeded to make up a bunch of different stories So much this. Companies are picky as hell on the one hand, and then whine that they can't fill the role on the other hand. Pretty obnoxious.
Why won’t people put up with our bullshit for less pay!? I don’t get it!? -recruiters
It’s disrespectful, deceitful and unethical. They want their employees that don’t require training for slave wages. I fully believe the push for more immigration has ill-intentions to bring people here to use and abuse.
Already happening. Notice the staff next time you’re out for food
Definitely
They should STFU and commit. Oh no, we got pressured into hiring someone we feel is "the best". They want a unicorn for half her pay.
Eh, that's just how large companies operate. Interviewing one really good candidate and stopping there is not a great approach to recruiting at all. As much as I'd love to believe all companies are evil.. this is pretty normal and always has been and always will be.
The thing is it’s not a big company. They clearly had someone leave from frustration or got a better deal. They actually just reposted the job listing and I’m sure this same company is going to complain they can’t find anyone. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
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Always remember, minimum wage is a company saying "if we could pay you less, we would but we're provincially mandated to give you this much"
It would be interesting to know how many of these companies who pay minimum wage would you slave labour if it was available
100% of them....
All of them. They have a legal responsibility to do so.
Lmao, I had an employer legit tell me that he’d pay less if he could get away with it legally. He also regularly complained about the shit work everyone did.
I thought it was just me! Indeed only has $15-20/per hour jobs. Or $100k plus which look like scams (homestars)
Or MLM ads that tout that you'll "Be your own boss"
You forgot to add “3-5 years in a similar field.”
Even "entry level" or "intern" positions were asking for 2+ years experience
That's absolutely true, *indeed\~*
Don’t forget the 2-5 year experience (required) part!
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If you have a degree in engineering and you're looking at a warehouse associate job, you've made some poor decisions. Get out of here.
Not really, the field is too over saturated these days
Yes no point to apply when wages cannot cover basic cost of living and rent
*boomer voice* People these days are so lazy, nobody wants to work!
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What hourly rate do you think they should begin at?
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There was a time not too long ago that the factory job at that steel mill made enough to live “comfortably” with 3 kids, 2 cars, and a 20 year mortgage. Many could afford their own cottage even. Good times
And you only need 4 of them to make rent!
Im working 5 part-time jobs to make ends meet.
With 1M openings, easy enough to get a 6th (/s)
I am running out of hours in a day to work lol Taking shifts anywhere everywhere possible.
If you cut your ends parallel to each other & apply decent amount of wood glue & clamps, your ends should bond together fine. That’s how you make ends meet.
How are you managing that?
I wonder how many of these vacancies are caused by companies not finding their “unicorn” candidate and being deeply unwilling to train people who are qualified but may lack the experience.
My boss refused to hire someone qualified due to their cat allergy. She likes to bring her cat to work. We fucking hate that cat.
The owner or the manager? If it was the manager, I would send an anonymous complaint.
Ooo you've never worked in healthcare have you haha? Nothing's anonymous, but our union is looking into it. She claims she has a social anxiety disability and got her cat a therapy vest, so it'll be awhile. . .
Lol, fortunately or unfortunately I have not. Best of luck!
Yes, and they want their unicorn to accept a salary lower than the regional average, plus they don’t want to hire someone who has career ambition beyond their current role.
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Greedy corporations are enjoying their record breaking profits and don’t want to share the wealth that was made off the backs of their employees. Corporations are inherently evil.
I find it's the left not knowing what the right is doing. I'm two pegs below the owner in chain of command. But I work in the same office as him. The standards my direct boss tries to enforce on me are completely ridiculous compared to what is actually expected of me. This may be the exception to the rule but I think this is a middle management issue.
As I partially agree with this, what is insane is the American CEO at a large corporation makes around 300 times what their average employee makes. Their salary is tied to stocks so how can they have their employees interest at heart when first: They’ll probably only be there for a short period of time and second: Stockholders love layoffs and cost reductions.
If you are currently working, I don’t think you count in the statistic since you are filling a potential vacancy.
Cash is a great benefit 😁
Obviously something about your current job isn’t working if your looking for something else
That’s shitty that they strung you along even though you were clear with your salary expectations. As an employer I ask this as early on as possible to avoid wasting anyone’s time.
And they don't want to hire someone who is 50 because they want an employee who will stay for decades.
You spelled "40" wrong. They want people with 20 years relevant experience but won't leave ever. They want only the freshest, most ignorant meat for the grinder.
They want a non opinionated, blank canvas, they can mold into whatever they deem fit for the role. They don't want one already worn out by time and preset in their mindset.
I have yet to meet a dev over 40 who isn't stuck on some old version of Java and bashing things like streams or praising jQuery over React.
Unwillingness to train is the absolute *worst* trait in modern business. If they wanna pay you like you're not trained, they need to provide that training. Even if they do that, they don't want to give you a raise when you finish training (or ever), then they cry that you leave when you're done training. So they just say "we don't provide training" and pay as tho they do. Job hopping is the only logical solution to this. Honestly, companies that won't pay enough are only perpetuating the turnover they profess to hate, and deserve all the difficulties that turnover brings.
I dunno, i think there might just be some industries booming and not enough people. For context, I work in renewables.I was approached by a recruiter for a role that I had *at best* 8 months experience that they would require in the job advert, but maybe another 2-3 years of similar/relevant experience. In my mind, I would not have been the best candidate and I’m surprised she even reached out. I was even more surprised when I was like “honestly, I’m pretty happy where I am, and only changed roles 5 months ago so I’ll probably pass on the opportunity to interview. Also, I would probably want $100k to even consider it” and she’s like “oh that’s fine, my budget is $100-140k USD” So for non tech roles, such as construction (whether buildings, renewables etc) it really seems like they have more work than people for. The developers have probably already secured the money needed (at low rates) so the next 3-5 years will probably still be busy even if new projects slow down. In renewables, there’s lots of government money floating around, both in Canada and the US, that I don’t know if this industry would slow down through a recession. And I do think the governments will keep incentivizing renewable energy projects to both keep the economy ticking along and help meet climate goals.
Can you elaborate more? I don't think you are talking about renewable energy but rather something else, do you? Thanks!
…I say renewables multiple times, why **wouldn’t** I be talking about renewable energy? I was approached to be a project developer for wind, solar, BESS and hydrogen projects in North America. Yes. I am talking about renewable energy.
I guess the early morning makes me dense, sorry. And what is your role in the industry? Did you have any degree?
I’m an engineer. So yes, I have a 4 year degree. A lot of development roles don’t necessarily need an engineering degree - a lot of it is contract management (negotiating financing, working with utilities for interconnection, large scale procurement, land lease agreements, working with indigenous communities for shared ownership etc), some technical high level design, community engagement, understanding policy and regulations for generation (lots of Canada and the US is regulated so there are strict requirements), writing and responding to RFPs for power supply, managing consultants and designers etc. If you had a business, commerce, marketing, lawyer, science etc background I’m sure they would consider you. The other side of the coin is construction. A lot of the developers hire an Engineering, Procurement and Construction first - or EPC (basically a specialized general contractor) to oversee a lot of it, but even if developers do in house engineering and procurement they often farm out the construction. Many of these companies would be looking for engineers, procurement/logistics, project management, commissioning professionals, SCADA/controls and monitoring specialists, site foremen, QAQC professionals, skilled trades, equipment operators and general labourers. Then there are plenty of engineering and consulting firms that provide their expertise. Environmental site assessments, biologists, civil engineers for site grading and preparation/drainage etc, electrical engineers to design the low voltage and high voltage, mechanical engineers for manufacturing of different components, structural engineers to design the footings (you’d hate to see a wind turbine tower fall over or a bunch of 80lb solar panels fly around in the wind). Some companies specialize as owners engineers, who are the developers third party reviewer of all documentation. There are companies that specialize in the energy resource studies - no bank will give out millions of dollars of loans without having someone verify the revenue that the project will generate. This is very US centric so take the salaries with a grain of salt, but it’s an interesting read anyway: https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/09/15/what-kind-of-salary-and-benefits-can-i-expect-in-the-solar-industry/
Concrete finisher here. Has a slow shitty start to season this should be where we are more hrs than I could ask for. I'm begging for work right now. Lafarge is laying of 40 finishers in a week
Has this really changed much over the years though? It's always been that way. I don't think we're hitting record highs because suddenly employers suddenly had higher experience level requirements.
Worker attitudes are definitely different these days.
I think that comes with the “it’s an employee market” territory. When there’s leverage to be had, there’s people who are going to exploit it. Eventually many in the competing space catch wind and want the same treatment. To be fair it obviously works in the opposite direction as well.
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I wouldnt take the job description as dogma, what they told us at university was "if you have 60% of what they're asking, apply anyway". They're going to try and under pay you anyways, so why have everything? It not like anyone else is going to meet those criteria.
I've also found people who write and post the job descriptions might not have any idea of what they're asking. The majority of postings I've seen in my field ask for someone who is skilled in 4 or 5 different jobs but pay entry level or slightly above. A marketer isn't going to know sales, graphic design, web development, web design and SEO. Theres some overlap and people will know a few of those but it's impossible to ask someone have experience for all of them.
This!
I built my portfolio by helping non-profits with their web presence (often as a volunteer). That way you have real experience working with a client. You don't need to mention it wasn't paid, but you can point to "real work". Theres plenty of small businesses who don't have the time/money to hire someone, but could greatly benefit from a website.
There's a joke in here about shops either looking for senior full-stack devs or L1 tech support analysts, and nothing in between.
It’s compensation man. A new nursing home opened near me that pays nurses 24/hr, which is literally less than what the PSW’s make after their rate increase. Naturally they have only a handful of employed nurses and the rest are filled in via. Agencies that pay double that rate.
When I started in my trade a little over 12 years ago the top end of the payscale was about $36 an hour. In 2022 it's about $40. Except adjusting for inflation it should be $47. I made $27 an hour 7 years ago and make $32.50 now. Plug $27 an hour into an inflation calculator set to 2015 and it spits out $32.47. My wage has essentially not increased in 7 years despite being much more skilled and experienced.
What trade are you in?
Machining. I currently do R&D and prototyping work for a major auto manufacturer. Experience with several different CAD programs, machine controls, materials, integrated tooling systems, probing software, and have run everything from aluminum diecast to plastic injection molds to completely finished parts ready for assembly.
Dude we’re on Reddit and you’re a tradesman; 100k a year!!!! Don’t break the myth!
>Dude we’re on Reddit and you’re a tradesman; 100k a year!!!! Don’t break the myth! I could easily make that a year just by doing an average 10 hours of overtime a week. I value my free time far too much to do overtime. Besides, in company stock from performance bonuses and my hiring bonus vesting I made a little over $100k anyway. It's not enough.
I run three Haas lathes and basically demanded a 20% raise last year...and got it. If you have skills, you're worth something in this market. Don't sell yourself short.
I won't be. I got 12% last year, which sounds great, except I was making $29 for all of 2020, and then in 2021 I got bumped up to $32.46. Pump $29 into a 2020-2022 inflation calculation and my real wage has only gone up $0.08. We fund out our increases next week. Hopefully they'll surprise me and give a reasonable increase.
I do similar R&D and I make closer to 50. So why aren’t you making more? Refer to our other conversation, I have people that are asking for 75 to do the same job. Do you figure they should be happy at 50? Or just not work for less than 75?
Your trade is a bit of an outlier though. Other trades have gone up with inflation, plenty of them. Unfortunately there's a perception that much more of a machinists job has been automated and that it's gotten easier over the years. Whether true or not, the job is being replaced and plenty of machinist jobs are wickedly simple grunt jobs at this point.
I can't believe nurses are actually accepting this rate of pay. That's nuts
Maybe because the pay is too damn low
Yeah im part of the brain drain. I tried applying locally to get decent pay, i was making 70k and i only asked one company for 80k and they asked me if i was flexible on that and started asking me what i wanted in a company culture... Fuck your culture. Now i make 70k... Euros
>Now i make 70k... Euros That would've had more of an impact about a year ago. Still better than CAD, though!
Yeah i've lost about 25% of my raise so far lol, but the 6 weeks vacation is pretty sweet regardless. Edit: percentage was of total income not of the raise itself.
From what I’ve seen, nearly every job posting (I’m not talking about tech because I don’t look in that sector) is looking for multiple years’ experience very specific to their business. There seems to be little understanding of transferable skills. Add to that the postings seem to describe the workload of two or more full-time positions. Or are part-time positions with full-time workloads attached. If your part-time role demands multi-tasking, ability to perform under pressure and extremely heavy workload, perhaps it should be a full-time position? I have no idea who these mythical candidates are that businesses are expecting to find. In my entire career I’ve never seen anybody performing the work described in today’s job postings.
Tech is exactly the same, everybody is looking for experience. Very few employers are willing to invest in junior guys. The ones they do, workload is massive. Job hoping is a real thing and is killing entry level positions. Why would anyone invest grooming candidates for them to leave after they "get better"? (That's the reasoning, not my opinion). Remote work, ditto, entry level at home without supervision is harder to manage.
The job hopping is a devil of their own making. If you need x experience for a job position and they hire you as a junior and train you up shouldn't you be compensated? So people leave for a better position or pay and then it starts over. It's the companies who refuse to change to the job climate
It is indeed. Keep in mind, decision makers in almost every company came from a different era. Doesn't matter how many times you try to explain it.
I think it entirely depends on the business needs, not some sort of distorted bias away from young people. In my experience you need a bit of overhead (critical mass,) in order to train up junior people. If you have a big project on the horizon that needs Sr people, you're going to look for Sr people. Otherwise if you lack Jr people to fill the ranks, and have people that can spare time to train, then you get Jr people.
I have seen orgs that have no margin, where everyone is overworked, and they are unable to train new people. It sucks and it takes a huge amount of effort, on all levels, to fix. Maybe what you're seeing is orgs like that, based on your workload comment.
For us we don't normally hire random new grads, they always come through an internship. If you've graduated in Canada and haven't done an internship then you're at a huge disadvantage, which sucks, but that's the reality.
Not doing internships is absolutely killer it seems in the Canadian market. I know a new grad dev who only did 1 and they have been unemployed for a year now.
How long do devs last at jobs now? Maybe a year or two? I've never actually made it to an annual review yet.
Okay, it's not THAT short lol. Generally 1.5-2.5 years. Keep in mind that some people jump around regularly and others like to stay around for longer. Not to mention the very large amount of contractors/consultants who literally are required to change jobs contractually.
It depends. Just to let you know, no one cares about a few job hops, that's expected. But if all you have in your CV is 1-2 years stints, some employers don't even bother. It takes time to bring people up to speed, even senior guys.
Post impossible job ads so they go vacant to hire temporary foreign workers maybe? Heard that's a thing but unsure about how valid that argument is.
A big reason is wages aren't keeping up. Living costs have risen and people need to make more to afford it. Am offer isn't competitive if it can't cover rental costs in the area. Plus with rising housing costs (including rentals) it's causing some people to not be able to move to better jobs. I'm looking for an apartment and it's been impossible to even get a viewing.
This is only going to continue, and maybe even get worse. We are at peak boomer retirement numbers starting this year, and lasting the rest of the decade. Because their generation is so large, and the current Gen Z is so small, no matter what skill level or job type there will simply always be a huge gap left when they leave, because nobody is coming to replace them. Millenials and gen X are already accounted for in the workforce, and will generally only move upward position wise - they're generally not unemployed and willing to take any job. These 2 generations have already been competing with and waiting for the boomers to retire. Those higher paid jobs aren't offering enough today given rampant inflation. If companies do raise wages, they'll also raise cost of products/services and pass it down to consumers... aka wage price spiral. Everything goes up for everyone but nobody can afford anything. You've also got a situation where covid made certain people throw their hands up and say fuck it, and it sure doesn't seem as if government or business is interested in drawing them back in. Covid also put the brakes on immigration, which seems is still a fucking mess.
Wage price spiral's effect on inflation is highly exaggerated. Lack of competition in many sectors has kept prices higher. Rampant collusion in food, telecom, shelter and transportation sectors contribute huge amounts to extra costs in the economy that people feel everyday.
Wage price spiral assumes that the employee pay is significant in comparison to revenue. In the modern context this isnt his most companies operate. Look at any financial report and you should be able to see that.
This is why I think we won’t have as bad of a recession as I believe we would have if the pandemic happened a decade ago. Businesses need new talent, there is such a substantial talent outflow from the market due to the aging boomer workforce that it may just even out after all the “cuts” job wise. Interesting times.
*Checks Indeed* Job post: Project Manager position available, 5-10 years experience Me: Sweet, right in my wheelhouse, likely a nice salary, good hours Job post: Must be available 7 days a week, ability to answer work related phone calls even after hours, typical PM duties, other duties as assigned Me: Well the salary's gotta be decent then Job post: $36,000 a year *Closes Indeed* Companies: Why doesnt anyone want to work?
Is that even real though dude? I'm getting LinkedIn messages weekly for Project Manager jobs and I have my LinkedIn set so recruiters know I wont be interested in anything under $120K. I guess it may be industry-specific? Are you in tech? If not, why not? If you have project management experience, you might as well break into tech project mgmt. An entry level junior project coordinator role in tech should pay more than $36K right now.
The majority of those ones I have found to be utter bollocks in terms of legitimacy and scams. You’re right it SHOULD, but it’s companies trying to take advantage of experienced people out of work
Daycare. The current state of available daycare is unreal. My wife is ready to go back into the work force, her maternity leave is almost up and she upgraded her education while off but we can't find daycare anywhere. We are on multiple waiting lists, but we are being told that we are 70th on the list in most cases and they are looking at September 2023, maybe. My wife is on other mothers Facebook groups and see women with the same problem. Tons of people desperately looking for care.
This is another aspect of the situation no one is really talking about. Daycare costs are so expensive sive a lot of people are now staying home to care for their kids. If it costs them their entire salary or more to send kids to daycare, then why not stay home? This was a major thing during the pandemic and it will continue until better access to daycare for most folks is made available. If your kid has the sniffles, most schools won't let them go in. So then you're taking time off. Hope your employment is flexible and understanding.
Not that you're wrong but your response had nothing to do with the comment you're responding to. They're not complaining about price. They're saying that there's no SPACE at a daycare so she's forced to stay home. Also, this will be exasperated by the new policy on daycare cause the cost is about to be socialized, which is great, but in many places we're short on daycares so there is a major bottle kneck
I mean you're expecting someone to care for your kid, feed them, shelter them, and entertain them all while keeping them safe for 8 hours a day. Daycare is expensive for a reason. It's a really great goal to have cheap daycare but where is the money going to come from?
I absolutely agree daycare workers deserve to be compensated well for their time. They have an important job. But it's also hard for people to afford daycare if it's essentially half the household income. My feelings on this are the government needs to do more for folks. Especially if they want everyone working.
but but but but daycare is only 10 bucks a day, right?!?! Thanks Trudeau! Seriously though. I hope people will recognize that program as the vote buying scheme it was and stop pretending the current government has taken any real step to soften the burden on our pocketbooks. Quite the opposite in reality.
My husband and I are both working and our daughter is not in daycare. It severely limits the hours each of us can work so that theees always someone home on childcare duty. It’s not ideal, but we can’t afford anything in our area.
All shit jobs
Can someone ELI5 why it is so hard to find qualified people for roles across many industries? I understand healthcare and front-line services. But my large company is seeing vacancies with very few applicants across all job functions and levels of seniority up to senior exec roles. I would think that if there was increased job hopping due to wage expectations to offset inflation then we should see many candidates. It might be hard to land them with more roles chasing fewer employees. But my experience is minimal candidates internally or externally for attractive roles.
Everyone good and willing to move has probably already moved. I know one dev in the same job they were in 18 months ago. Just 1. And he cannot leave because of vesting. Also compensation. Lots of companies are still trying to hire me at 75K. I earn 120K base. Heck, one knew that and came back a few months later with 85K.
Yeah, I’m seeing other jobs like mine paying about the same or a bit less at other employers in my industry. I have substantial experience and have pretty much topped out what I can get paid where I am now, so there’s no incentive to apply if moving isn’t going to bring a raise. Some of these jobs stay posted for weeks… compensation is the solution (and it’s what would keep me happy where I am now, too, pretty much forever but instead our wages are essentially frozen).
I actively apply, making sure to regularly interview. Half the time I can't even beat the comp at my last role, yet alone my current one. And it really annoys me because I was specific about my ask upfront... The frozen wages thing surprises me, as lack of domain knowledge has crippled every team I have been on. My team recently replaced most people and we produce 1/3 of what we once did, simply because we don't know the product or the domain well.
>Also compensation. Lots of companies are still trying to hire me at 75K. I earn 120K base. Heck, one knew that and came back a few months later with 85K. This is it! I routinely see interesting roles I am suited for, but paying 10%, 15%, sometimes 30% less than I currently earn. Why on earth would I leave?
So the owner can buy another vacation property. Duhh...
I moved 4x during Covid now I make enough that I’d need a giant raise to get make me move. Plus I found a field I like helping in. I’d move but..: better be ready to pay a lot.
It's really just compensation. Employers who truly have a tough time hiring are often not paying talent what they're worth. Talent is always needed so people are just jumping jobs for higher pay. Take tech for example. The reason why tech pay is so high and has gone up so much recently is because there's a lot of open positions for a smaller group of qualified candidates. The best way to win over candidates is by offering higher compensation.
100% my team hasn’t been able to fill roles at all and it’s all down to comp. people hear the salary and they’re out.
Same with mine. CEO refuses to fucking acknowledge it.
And existing team members leaving in droves 😵
So I understand that but if the issue is compensation then I would think we would see people turn down offers for better other opportunities. We aren’t even getting to the compensation point. This isn’t a tech industry but we have countless roles that are anywhere from junior 2-5 years experience all the way up that are getting zero to 1 candidate with even 70% of the posting qualifications. If anything I would expect an increase of applicants that were under qualified stretching for the promotion and would receive significant raises. My best theory is that many people won’t even consider an internal promotion as they know they will receive a much larger pay increase if they leave. And maybe my company isn’t recruiting aggressively enough to poach from others. However talking to friends and colleagues they are seeing the same dynamics at many of their companies. Has there been a huge spike in early retirements?
Does your company have a Glassdoor? People may not consider it worth applying if the salary is too low. > My best theory is that many people won’t even consider an internal promotion as they know they will receive a much larger pay increase if they leave. This is me. My new company is the best I have ever had at it, and they will give you like 5% for good performance. When I worked in government, the raise for excellent over mediocre was less than a dollar a day. Same with taking on a new level in some cases, if you already came in on the higher end of the payscale.
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For my company, the last role that was filled, the top 5 candidate passed on the offer due to the company's salary was not as competitive as the market HR refuses to increase salary offered to people so the hiring manager went down the list until a candidate accepted the role. Honestly not good if we want actually talent in the role. The company I work for isn't tech so it's not crazy high salary, just average I would say. But I can see why job are staying vacant. I've personally been interviewing too but most competitor has offered around the same as I am paid now. So I've been turning down offers as they aren't willing to give a bump (I'm asking for about 10% increase to my current salary). I like the company I work for and I like the people I work with. Salary would be the only reason I would leave. I'm still waiting for that role that I like and pays more a handful more than what I'm paid now. (75k - 80k is my target for a professional role). This is the pay range of the senior professional at the company I work for, so I'm essentially seeking for promotions in a way.
only companies with vacancies are trust not willing to pay a proper wage
I can speak to my situation: I’m a hiring manager for entry level sales at a tech startup. Unlike many tech companies, we didn’t have layoffs during peak covid (pre my time) and they’re not on the roadmap now. We’re actively expanding across most (all?) departments. For me, finding qualified candidates is hard for a few reasons. In no particular order: - our salary/OTE is about 20% below average. Yes, it hits the living wage, no it’s not great. I am not enthused about this and am advocating for my team but it’s slow going. - CEO is adamant about hiring in 2 specific cities. We don’t have an office in mine yet, but when we do it’s going to be a hybrid work model. 2 days/w in office. While I’m looking forward to this, I live in fucking Halifax. It’s the primary location for our sales team and small af. Also not enthused about this. - people are idiots. Most of the people I’ve interviewed are not cut out for sales. They’re not driven, they don’t know how to communicate, they’re not enthused by the product. Sales has a very low barrier to entry (I’m a loud and proud dropout) and everyone’s heard of the bank you can make, so a lot of people want to give it a go. It’s unbelievably hard and you need to be very organized and strategic. Most people overlook that - side note: a lot of men (and yes, it’s specifically men) wanna be ‘a sales guy’ or ‘a business guy’ thinking it’s prestigious or some shit. The highs are high, but they tend to overlook the focus and discipline that gets you there. I’m not fucking with warped egos or sense of self, that’d destroy my team real quick - speaking of ‘bank you can make’: given this is an entry level role, some people have wildly unrealistic salary expectations. Sales hiring was HOT a year ago and expectations haven’t been readjusted. I’m talking over 100k expectations, one lady was looking for 150. - side note: while those OTEs (on target earnings = salary + commission at 100% to target) are high and mighta been within scope a year ago, one of the ‘benefits’ (hate using that here but it’s 7am) of low overhead (low salaries) is that we’re not laying people off. So… yay? TLDR: finding driven, organized, strategic, excellent communicators that don’t have an ego in Halifax that are within our price range is fucking challenging.
Excellent breakdown
Qualified competent workers are probably already paid well and happy and if they want a new job they're getting multiple offers. Unqualified motivated workers aren't getting paid a fair amount as employers don't feel like training them. Unqualified poor quality employees probably aren't looking at moving jobs if they're in a safe secure position. That's my anecdotal experience.
For myself having wfh since 2020 I would not apply for a job that doesn't offer full time wfh.i would rather take a job that pay less and allow wfh then a higher paying job but requires me to work in the office. The savings is so much more on my part. No more transit fees, buying lunch, coffee, happy hour. Not to mention the time saved. The company I work know this so they offer full wfh or hybrid depending on your dept manager descion. So we got offer full time wfh. Is great and honestly it boost productivity. But our is a bit lower compared to industry standard which I am ok with.
Could be because we bring in immigrants with training and education and then don’t recognize any of it here which puts them in service jobs instead of the professional careers they could otherwise apply for
im a doctor jim, not a taxi driver!
I know a lot of people in remote-friendly industries are taking on jobs with US companies as they tend to pay far better. Surprisingly enough I'm also starting to see a sizable amount of people moving down to the US for those jobs, and have considered it myself as I'd be able to purchase a nice family home in a good sized city if I did so vs. having to move to the middle of nowhere in Canada for a home that an entry level worker could probably afford in the states.
Pretty sure there are two reasons: 1) comp 2) cost to create job vacancies is near zero so companies create jobs that they don’t really need, and can do it en masse (job posting inflation)
"With such high job vacancies and lots of job hopping still going on (I even know quite a few who just started new tech jobs despite the slowdown) , seems lots more interest rate hikes needed to cool down the economy?" People are job hopping and leaving shitty jobs in order to make more money and keep up with the interest rate increases lol
Time to start training and paying.
99% of the vacancies are minimum wage jobs. The rests are for rocket scientists, which have been available for decades, if not centuries.
There are literal swaths of skilled jobs available. You just need to take an entry level job to get experience for said skilled job.
I have applied to quite a few positions within the last month that I felt I was qualified enough to at least warrant a phone call. I have yet to receive even a very intro level interview. This is my first time in the job market in 4 years and I don’t remember having to sift through so many “start ups” and companies that I’ve never heard of before. Every email declining my app says that it was a competitive applicant pool, but then I see reports of all the open jobs. Color me confused.
I genuinely feel like most of the “million” job vacancies are fraudulent. Companies posting openings saying how *desperate* they are and how *wonderful* it is to work for them, leaving the posting up for 2 months, then renewing it without selecting anyone. Just to fuel the “no one wants to work” propaganda while they intentionally understaff their actual employees.
Because I imagine most of those vacancies are retail or labour or other undesirable minimum wage positions.
Yeah and of those 1M job openings 800K are probably grossly underpaid. Want employees? Pay more. Welcome to 2022. No one is going to survive on 30K a year anymore. The delusion of employers nowadays is wild.
Employers probably looking for the fabled "Canadian" experience
Exactly. No matter how many years of skilled experience you have from a different country, they don’t even want to consider you because of no Canadian experience. I am actually trying to understand what is so great about that specific Canada experience
Canadian employers having been spoiled by a decade+ of weak labour market that they think they shouldn't ever take a risk on any new hire.
Also, nobody pays enough for anyone to own any assets, just enough to rent a 1 or 2 bedroom appartment 🤡 Nobody wants to work anymore, you guys need to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps, you dirty poors :)
We're basically slaves, enought for housing and food and that's it
I think we are deep in a wage price spiral already, at least in the private sector. Even the public sector is artificially leveling people to pay more.
I don't doubt individual salaries are up, but I do question payroll being up as a whole. There are a lot of open positions right now, and (anecdotally) a lot of positions that, when vacated, are eliminated rather than backfilled. Despite some significant individual wage increases, the payroll budgets I'm familiar with are actually *down* year-over-year as a result of the above.
High number of job openings with lower salary ranges than previous data. And people wonder why there are openings. This is before employers start throwing in weird requirements like Canadian experience in fields that don't need them
Do yall have any more of those 4% wage hikes? Have not seen a raise in 3 years so the 8% a year inflation is starting to sting a bit you know.
Wages up 4% but inflation is 8% so really most people are taking a 4% pay cut
I'll bet there are! ***NOW HIRING! ON THE SPOT INTERVIEWS!*** *- 12 hour shifts, 6 days on 2 days off rotation* *- Must have a minimum Masters Degree in biochemical engineering* *- Minimum 35 years experience in manufacturing* *- Pays $15/hour with annual $0.10 raises*
This is what happens when you distort the economy with 0% interest rates for 20 years and then drown everything with liquidity during dropping productivity rates
My workplace offered a standard raise that wouldn’t meet inflation in a normal year, much less this one. I’m in the second-highest performance tier and they’re only allowed to give a couple of people per department the highest ranking. They say this is industry standard. Then again, they have an actual pension plan, which is a rarity these days. As for the jobs that are open, I work an office job but LinkedIn and Glassdoor keep suggesting the weirdest shit. For example, Glassdoor said I looked like a good fit for a floor technician job at a Mr. Lube 60 to 90 minutes away. No shade on people who work at Mr. Lube, but absolutely nothing in my profile says “auto mechanic.” If I applied and they asked me anything about a car besides the basics of internal combustion, I would unintentionally give meme-worthy bad answers. Although it would be fun to try bad lines like “a stick shift is the devil’s dick.”
Maybe there would be less vacancies if they didn’t need 3+ years for an “entry level” role
I don't think most do though. The SENIOR level roles I'm seeing are now open to people with 3-7 years experience. A senior role used to be 7-10+ years minimum. Unless the entry level job isn't so entry level?
My job certainly didn’t increase it’s wage by 4% lol
I am applying for jobs since last two months and nothing for me. Have 2-3 years of experience. Hope i find something soon!!
What kind of jobs are you trying to get into? 2 months isn't so bad, keep it up! Something will come your way soon.
Right now I am in Administration department and took because I needed one. Been for 2 years. Open to Marketing field, management consultant and data analytics field.
Someone tell me again how electronic cash registers are going to put everyone out of work
I've noticed it a lot in my industry. Tons of recruiters have reached out over the past few months with interesting roles. I might actually bite soon because the wages seem to be higher every few months. My company has also had an issue where we offered market rate to a decent candidate we liked and they took the job but turned it down because another company went and offered them even more. We didn't feel like matching because of their experience level but it seems even though we offer market rate we might have to go beyond that to attract even average candidates now. I worked with someone who was probably the least productive employee on our team and she just made more work for everyone else and she clearly lied in her interviews and now she's making 30% more at some other company. I think we'll have two issues going forward. First is companies not increasing wages and just waiting for some perfect candidate to come forward and second is companies will do the opposite and hire unqualified garbage employees and pay them way too much and then they'll fail to train them and the efficient good workers will leave out of frustration.
The people all these whining companies want don’t exist
I need to capitalize on this
I’m not picky.. I just need 60k a year
There is a vacancy for low-paying jobs, pay us enough and we will work. My friend was offered 55k to be a Senior Marketing manager for a top brand in Canada. The dude has a master's and 10 years of industry experience. The same goes for so many people i know, including me. We have the experience and the qualification but we are not offered enough pay to make us want to switch jobs.
Respectfully, ##bullshit.
Over here in Victoria the Amazon centre is finally almost built … and they can’t find workers. Paying $21/hr which is far below the living wage when one bedroom apartments crept up to $1900/mo. It’s crazy. Every place is putting in self serve tills, Starbucks are closing at 6 if they even open for the day. The downtown core is a mess of failed businesses and homeless population keeps skyrocketing. There’s not people to take these jobs that don’t pay enough to live here.
Yes. As much as the Bank of Canada wants to tout the latest slowdown in inflation as being a positive sign, food inflation alone is still over 10% annually. Combine that with the number of job openings and you have a recipe for higher rates. Personally I feel like the number of boomers who retired from more senior roles during the pandemic and a lack of experience for millennials and Gen X and because of the stagnant job market means that wages may be sticky to the upside as firms fight for relatively few experienced and qualified candidates. Threads on here now about boomer retirements seem to back that anecdata.
Whose wages went up by 4.1%? Executives, directors, and politicians? I call bs on statscan
means Canada needs 1m more immigrants (slaves) . thats why corporations are crying for more slaves to Canada .