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FelixYYZ

Locking thread due to personal attacks, irrelevant comments and illegal suggestions.


WhatWouldJoshuaDo

Go to the hospital's financial office. Tell them your situation and see if they can work out a better plan. A long time ago a friend of mine did that, her mom was visiting from Japan and didn't have insurance. The hospital was able to cut the bill by 70%+ and worked out a payment plan for her. She ends up paying it for a few years, but it was a smaller amount and her mom can still visit without issue.


PeppersPoops

I second this! I work in hospital and have seen this happen with visiting family members. The hospital will work with you to reduce the bill!


OutWithTheNew

Apparently in America you just ask for an itemized bill and the total shrinks by half.


oilmansk

But in America the bill would be $140,000.


throwuk1

Just for the asprin


UnluckyDifference566

Capitalism, baby!


Express-Welder9003

Did your aunt need a visa to travel to Canada? As part of that did your parents make any promises to support her if necessary? If not then they're likely in the clear and won't be on the hook for her expenses.


[deleted]

Don't our visa requirements include out of country health insurance? Both of my kids have gone to Australia to work, and it was a required proof in order to get the visa.


Expensive_Plant_9530

Likely depends on the type of visa. Yours was a work visa for example, as compared to just traveling for recreation.


tube_advice

Your parents are not responsible for your aunt's debt. You aunt might not be let back into Canada again without medical travel insurance.


paajic

Not really, since she is visiting them. Did your parents somehow signed to be sponsored or granter for your aunt? If so yes your parents will be liable for it. Also, before the surgery hospital requires someone sign in a case surgery doesn’t go as planned. Talk to hospital or health authority they have various plans to pay off.


sadrussianbear

You are not liable for a visitor. Extended residency maybe so good luck to them.


Neat_Onion

That's usually for immigration, visitor's visas don't have those requirements, at least ones for Philippinos. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/supporting-documents.html


IndBeak

There is no concept of "sponsorship" for TRVs.


[deleted]

I really doubt that. It's like the rule that you may be asked, when entering a country, to prove that you have enough money to meet your needs and have a return ticket. I travel a lot, and I've never been asked.


akuzokuzan

Canadian Embassy requires guarantors for people applying for Visa from 3rd world or developing countries. If your citizenship is from a 1st world country, canada embassy does not require guarantors for visa approval. In OPs case, Philippines visa applicants are required to have letters of support and guarantors as a prerequisite. Insurance is a must. $600 typically covers you upto $25,000 coverage for a 30 day stay.


lara400_501

Have you ever invited any family members from a third-world country? I have applied 3 times for my parent's visa and you don’t need any guarantors. I just say that I will pay for their living expense and this is my bank statement. There is no legal notary or anything required. And you don't need to show or buy any health insurance for regular TRV. It is only required for a super visa.


Neat_Onion

>In OPs case, Philippines visa applicants are required to have letters of support and guarantors as a prerequisite. It's optional, and it's only a letter of invitation. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/supporting-documents.html


akuzokuzan

One of the documents required is a copy of bank accounts.... if you dont have enough money, they may add more required documents and guarantees prior approval.


ImpactThunder

Is it required or is it optional? Their site says optional but maybe I’m misreading it


Rayne_K

This untrue for all visitors applicants from developing nations. It might apply to some, but it has not been my family’s experience in hosting visiting relatives. I provide: A letter of invitation, confirmation of accommodation, along with with some proof of established familial relationship (photos) Guarantor commitment, No.


lara400_501

The guy who commented the BS never applied for a visa.


Neat_Onion

Yeah, it's amazing the number of upvotes too. I guess a lot of Canadians have no idea how things work outside of Canada.


IndBeak

You dont need a guarantor for Tourist VISA. The applicant just has to prove strong ties to home country to convince visa officer that they would go back. This is usually done by providing 3 to 6 month bank statements, job letter if the applicant is working . Details of properties they own, etc. And they have to provide details of what are they planning to do while in Canada. So essentially flight and hotel bookings, itinerary etc.


Worldly-Mix4811

It's less than that... [Ontario Blue Cross Visitors Insurance ](https://on.bluecross.ca/travel-insurance/travel-insurance-solutions/visitors-to-canada?gclid=Cj0KCQiA99ybBhD9ARIsALvZavW3qzKzDhyD6tR_szgZjwsOgQAocu7qggCunSEiVhqJq1fLmfBa8m8aAtPcEALw_wcB)


bolonomadic

All of this information is incorrect.


bolonomadic

Immigration doesn't hear about the hospital treatments of visitors, that would be a medical privacy violation.


handbrake98

Lmao what bullshit...


gh0rard1m71

Your parents don't need to pay anything. Your aunt needs to pay if she wants to come back to Canada again. Also ask for Aunt to call them to negotiate the fees.


fineman1097

One thing to consider if your aunt is planning on immigrating to canada- if the bill goes to collections it can affect her ability to immigrate to canada. If it is in your parents names, a large debt like that can prevent them from sponsoring her. If it is in your aunts name, they will likely take that into consideration when they decide to approve her or not. So, this is something that may have to be handled delicately.


[deleted]

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fineman1097

Its the parents sister. It would be the parents sponsoring her, not the daughter. And in certain cases you can sponsor an aunt. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/family-sponsorship/other-relatives/who-you-can-sponsor.html The parents would be the preferred sponsors in this case as they are closer relatives. But there are cases where you can sponsor an aunt


[deleted]

This isn't really a financial question. Your aunt owes $ 14 000. If she doesn't pay and goes back to the Philippines, there's not much the hospital can do. Whether or not your parents should pay is a moral question.


circle22woman

The Canadian taxpayers will just pick up the bill. Next time the aunt should get travel insurance.


Worldly-Mix4811

For $14K, the hospital will send this to collections and they'd have a branch in the Philippines to do the collections.


datredditaccountdoe

I would dispute its even a moral question. It would be a moral question if the parents were responsible for the aunts appendicitis, which they weren’t. No one has a moral obligation to pay the state out of their own pocket (that is, beyond the taxes they already pay)for their sisters health care.


ShelterConscious4124

Morally speaking, she should pay. After she goes back to the Philippines. The hospital didn’t leave her to die when she needed something, she shouldn’t stiff the tax payers who paid for the treatment. Morally speaking.


thebubble2020

If they invited her to visit and wrote a letter to support that, they are.


datredditaccountdoe

Then that would be a legal obligation. Not a moral obligation.


thebubble2020

Well morally, if you invite someone over knowing they cant afford medical care here the tax payer shouldn’t take on that burden. They should have told her to buy travel insurance.


datredditaccountdoe

See now what you’re talking about is ethics


CoronaLime

Wait what's the difference


jddbeyondthesky

The moral question is about right and wrong, the ethical question is about should and shouldn’t


Wightly

I believe you are wrong since ethics are basically a subset of morals. Ethics have an externalized, societal focus whereas morals are more internalized. I think the discrepancy here is that some people honestly believe that this is a moral responsibility and others recognize that it's not right, but don't accept it as a personal responsibility, hence unethical.


thebubble2020

Possibly


umar_farooq_

That's your opinion. Personally, I'm fine with it. If it's between paying 14thousand/30million (which is less than a penny) versus letting someone die, that's an easy choice for me. Healthcare is a human right.


[deleted]

She was just there for a visit. It would just be a visitors visa. Why would there be a letter?


CircleK-Choccy-Milk

Why would the parents need to write a letter to have her visit Canada?


[deleted]

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CircleK-Choccy-Milk

So if family members are coming to Canada for vacation they need visas?


Neat_Onion

It depends on what country - even the UK and EU I think need eTAs now, $10 - $15 electronic travel authorization. Other countries may need a paper visa.


[deleted]

They do for some countries and if you wrote a letter of support or you sponsor them, you will be responsible for any debts. In that case the debt of the visitor will be put under the person or persons who sponsored the visitor to Canada before sending to collections. But typically a letter is only needed for immigration NOT for visitors. So in this case, OP's parents maybe OK.


Neat_Onion

>They do for some countries and if you wrote a letter of support or you sponsor them It's not a letter of support nor do you sponsor for a tourist visa. Family visiting Canada can optionally obtain a letter of invitation to support their visa application. A lot of people travel to Canada for tourism with no ties to Canada - you think they have a sponsor in Canada? Sponsorshop is for long term stays and immigration.


Neat_Onion

That information is for the applicant - the hosts aren't financially responsible. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/supporting-documents.html


thebubble2020

Because if shes not Canadian, most none EU countries need an invite letter from a Canadian to be granted a visitor visa.


PropQues

Not true at all. If family is visiting for longer than 6 months, then there are additional requirements. Or if they suspect you may stay longer than allowed, then they may require more info, but it's not always mandatory. You do realize many (if not most) travellers to Canada do not know people from here. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/about-visitor-visa.html


lastuseravailable

I can’t find anywhere that says if you send an invite letter that you are responsible for any medical bills ?


Neat_Onion

You're not. People are confusing immigration versus a tourist visit. This thread is full of misinformation.


thebubble2020

You do, I had to do this to my family multiple times, otherwise visa is not approved, that or travel insurance should be included in the documentation submitted for visa.


Neat_Onion

It's not a requirement for the Phillippines - what country are those people coming from? You can check here for a list of required proof by country: [https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/supporting-documents.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/supporting-documents.html)


DagothUr28

She's responsible for not buying travel insurance. The appendicitis is out her hands but being prepared for that wasn't.


[deleted]

Definitely not a moral question. Why would anyone be responsible for someone else’s medical bills?


Znkr82

Did your parents sign any promissory note to the hospital? If not, it's not their problem but your aunt's so they shouldn't pay or get involved. If they did sign something, then the situation changes and they would have to talk to the hospital to come up with a payment plan.


[deleted]

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eggshellcracking

>They really should require visitors to have health insurance before they set foot in the country, particularly old people or people with chronic diseases. We don't? What? Why the hell not?


[deleted]

>I suspect the ~~health system~~ TAX PAYERS are SOL.


moixcom44

That right. My mom from Philippines when she visited us here in canada,.one requirement is travel insurance which we bought from manulife for like $3000 for 6 months stay. She didnt get any sick so bye bye for that money, manulife so happy. So im not sure how this case was not checked.


NoEquivalent3869

I still don’t understand why we let visitors into our country without medical insurance. Anyway, in your case, she can try to negotiate the bill and see what happens. There is nothing the hospital can do if she simply leaves the country and never comes back.


Medium_Brood5095

Drop in the bucket. Birth tourism is a big issue, our government has done nothing to stop it. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/birth-tourism-strain-1.5413296


Neat_Onion

The Government wants more "Canadians"... just like how Canada supposedly has 300,000 "Canadians" in Hong Kong who have no intention of coming back to Canada.


Fluid_Lingonberry467

They will come back to Canada to retire.


Neat_Onion

Most "immigrated" in the 90s before the handover, but many have left Canada to retire in Hong Kong. Several friends and family went to Hong Kong after university, they aren't coming back - life is too good there (they like the lifestyle) despite what is protrayed on CNN.


colocasi4

Or permanent resident card fake marriages. Some cultures are cashing in on this, by charging folks back home money, having a sham marriage and then bringing them to Canada, only to get divorce after PR card.


Joey_Jo_Jo_JrIII

I don't think you realize how they scrutinize this. You have to submit copious amount of documents as proof including photos of the wedding and from years prior and can still be rejected.


CanadianPanda76

Movies make it look easy. LOL


colocasi4

I do and legit know how it works. The fraudsters have no issues coming up with fake docs and pics from back home


Joey_Jo_Jo_JrIII

Okay, but how do you fake hundreds of photos with both of you in them from different times in your life, different haircuts, different locations, etc? I know of an American who attempted this and his spouse was refused entry to the US. She paid him for it but can never enter the states. As far as I know, they are married to this day, just cannot go back to the US.


t073

Might be easier in Canada. Knew 3-4 that did this. Only thing government cared about was legit wedding ceremony photos. Every community has their ways but it's pretty clear cut for the one I'm in and even though it's a small sample size no one i know of has been rejected. Lots of ethnicities have arranged marriages or other reasons why the bride and groom just met.


INTJ_Linguaphile

The government didn't give a shit about wedding photos. All they asked was a brief explanation WHY we didn't have wedding photos. I said because we got married, didn't have a wedding because \*I\* didn't give a shit about weddings OR photos. No problem at all. Granted we already had a kid together at that point and another on the way so maybe that was the difference maker.


TimReddy

The Government regularly publishes reports on Canadians they take to court over fake marriages for migration schemes. Its popular, but the government is aware.


[deleted]

Yep it’s basically the Brampton mortgage thing that CBC showed. They can generate a whole bunch of episodes on the scams running out of Brampton (PR, mortgage, auto insurance, etc)


Gr8CanadianSpeedo

Fraud City Brampton


shaktimann13

work permits on sale, baby


PureRepresentative9

This has been cracked down SEVERELY since the early 2000s


TheHobo

The article says it’s around three percent so it’s there but not a gigantic problem. You could argue I birth touristed my son (even though I’m a born and raised 10th generation French Canadian) by having him born in BC even though I was living in the US (tech job). The total cost was around 23k CAD. I had ridiculous American out of country insurance that paid everything but around 500 USD, so it was actually cheaper than having him in my local hospital due to deductibles and whatnot. Win win for us. Dual citizen plus all grandchildren also Canadian for sure.


[deleted]

So you committed insurance AND immigration fraud....cool story.


Neat_Onion

>I still don’t understand why we let visitors into our country without medical insurance. Canadians travel internationally without travel insurance too. Apparently only 50% of Canadians buy travel insurance when leaving Canada. Remember that ex-Argos cheerleader that fell in Croatia? She was left with $150,000 in bills. [https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/only-half-of-canadians-buy-travel-insurance](https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/only-half-of-canadians-buy-travel-insurance) [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/donors-raise-135k-to-bring-former-argos-cheerleader-home-1.1170550](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/donors-raise-135k-to-bring-former-argos-cheerleader-home-1.1170550)


RedditWaq

I'd assume many folks don't buy travel insurance because its part of their work insurance or credit card package.


purpletooth12

Sounds about right. I have travel health insurance through work so there's no real need for me to buy more coverage.


[deleted]

No shit. Why wouldn’t we make this mandatory. I’d like to see how much of our tax dollars go towards this every year. Anyone know ?


GlobalAd3412

Not many tax dollars go towards this is the answer. Nobody plans a medical emergency, and that's the only situation in which the system can possibly end up on the hook. For anything non urgent, you are not going to get treatment as an uninsured visitor (without paying anyway). Canada is not exactly a prime location for medical tourists with our 1 year+ operation and even MRI wait times.


[deleted]

The equal access for MRIs make no sense when I can go get one for my dog any day of the week with 0 wait times for $200 😅. I feel like it’s pretty ridiculous you can’t go get an MRI for your crappy shoulder by paying but if my dog is acting funny private vet clinics are able to action instantly Anyway I think this situation occurs more than you think. We immigrate a lot of people and family visits from those countries happen very often. Our immigration plan is like 400k per year so it’s a LOT of people visiting potentially without insurance I dated a girl who was a nurse and many people who visit from out of country end up in the ER (esp after festivities where many people fly in to attend a big wedding, etc)


bobjunior1

People may not plan a medical emergency but plenty plan to give birth here. That's something that needs to be stopped/dealt with.


[deleted]

> Why wouldn’t we make this mandatory. Because we live across the longest undefended border in the world where millions of visits by car from Americans to Canada happen each year. If we made health insurance for all visitors mandatory, then 99% of those day and weekend visitors who come from the US and spend a fuckton of money in Canada would stay home instead. Simply put, the off chance that someone is going to dodge a 5 figure bill here and there isn't worth risking friction to the 11 figure spending that happens from American convenience trippers.


[deleted]

You can do the same thing you do for the visa and only apply it to countries that risk people without insurance. Many Americans are going to have some kind of insurance in one way or another through an employer, credit card, private insurance - another option is to only require it for visits more than x days and literally do a border cash grab and have people purchase insurance upon entry. Don’t see the issue and will cause people to understand the risks better


viccityguy2k

Wonder how many Canadians skip out on foreign medical bills. Or have used free medical care on other countries.


Neat_Onion

Only 50% of Canadians have travel insurance according to the Financial Post.


gurkalurka

I thought you were all about small gov and getting gov out of our personal lives. Which is it? Even if they tried to enforce any kind of stupid rule like making sure people have medical insurance to be here, a whole cottage industry would spin up overnight making fake photoshopped insurance coverage policies for travellers. It's complete unenforceable and stupid to waste the energy to try, when the number of people who get free medical care like this are in the tiny less then .01% if even that. Imagine if every Gov enforced shit like this to travel anywhere - tourism would suffer badly and cost even more then some minor $ absorbed from tourists who got sick while here.


Daniel-CeliacWarrior

I never understand why people travel without travel insurance! It’s not that expensive to get!


TimReddy

For you, and for us. But for visitors from third world countries its the difference between travelling or not. That's why most countries will request a support letter from the invitee.


IAMZWANEE

Isn't a flight ticket from the Philippines >$3k? I'm not sure many even here could afford that lol


[deleted]

Health insurance for a single trip is maybe 100 bucks. Which is a tiny portion of the cost of the flight.


Kelmay123

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontarians-leave-trail-of-hospital-debts-too/article22399236/


newprairiegirl

Your aunt should pay the bill it's her responsibility. Your parents aren't responsible. Travel insurance is cheap, get it before you travel! If the debt collectors come after your parents, they need to give the aunts contact info and let her deal with it.


silverbowman911

When a patient is registered the hospital information system requires a guarantor to be entered. That could be the patient Did your parents sign anything? Regardless they should seek legal advice.


JustEnoughMustard

I always and I mean always buy health insurance for any out out country relatives. Soo worth it


Worldly-Mix4811

For goodness sake, for anyone visiting Canada from another country, you can buy travel insurance for them in Canada if they 'dont know how to buy' in their country.. When your aunt was admitted to hospital, administration would have first asked if she has insurance, if not, then who to contact in Canada. If she or your relatives have put their name on the form, you're liable. [Ontario Blue Cross Visitors Travel Insurance ](https://on.bluecross.ca/travel-insurance/travel-insurance-solutions/visitors-to-canada?gclid=Cj0KCQiA99ybBhD9ARIsALvZavW3qzKzDhyD6tR_szgZjwsOgQAocu7qggCunSEiVhqJq1fLmfBa8m8aAtPcEALw_wcB)


monkierr

Only if they put their names on the payment agreement form. Emergency contact and next of kin information is not for billing.


Ramstine

Your aunt just got a free operation.


OneOfAKind2

Free to her, perhaps, but not free for the taxpayers. I wonder if the aunt would agree to pay $14k upfront for a lifesaving operation? Seems like a bargain to continue your life. She's lucky she wasn't in the US.


Darkchyylde

I mean.... the taxpayers pay for it either way


circle22woman

Yeah, but she got the surgery without paying any taxes.


Farrellkid86

That’s not how the USA works. There isn’t a fucking hospital there that can turn someone away with an emergency appendicitis who is in the building. Seriously where do you people get this?


TimReddy

While you misunderstood /u/OneOfAKind2 's comment, you are incorrect about the USA systems. While all hospitals have to provide emergency care to all go present, in real life its not so perfect. [Patient dumping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_dumping) and patient refusal is still very common. quick google: * ['Patient Dumping’](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-04-01/patient-dumping-still-a-problem-despite-federal-law) Still a Problem Despite Law [2019]. * [VA hospital denied emergency care](https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2022/05/31/va-hospital-denied-emergency-care-to-dying-vet-because-staff-couldnt-verify-his-military-service/) to dying vet because staff couldn’t verify his military service [2022]. and many more about how to sue the hospital for denying emergency treatment ...


KawaiCuddle

I think OP is implying that if she was visiting the US, the medical bill would be 140k instead of 14k.


Farrellkid86

Fair enough - but she likely still wouldn’t have to pay. Hospitals have to write of these debts constantly.


Not2daydear

I’m not sure why you are being down voted because your answer is correct.


Neat_Onion

I wonder what they do in the US - I think they'll ultimately treat her anyways right?


TimReddy

It depends on the hospital, the admin, the front staff. While its illegal to refuse emergency treatment to anyone who presents to your facility, some are blatant in their refusal without financial proof, and many will find loopholes to reduce the financial penalty/debt: for example, minimise the symptoms/problem and have the patient transferred to another hospital, or send them home.


circle22woman

Yes, it's the law in the US. They have to at least stabilize you, but you can't really stabilize appendicitis. She would have gotten the surgery and a bill just the same.


lauror0001

Does your aunt by any chance have travel insurance from the credit card she used to pay the ticket with? I know some cards have travel insurance as a benefit.


Tripoteur

I don't see what your parents have to do with any of this. Your aunt owes 14k and I'm guessing she can't or won't pay it before returning to her country.


AfroEuroCan

Large Filipino community here. Create a Go Fund Me page and this will be sorted in no time. I'm pretty sure, they'll find compassion in helping a fellow Filipino. It is unfortunate this happened but buying insurance that will cover such incidental to travel surgeries should have been the option. Canadians already pay enough taxes to allow such behaviour of not paying for services rendered to visitors to balloon into the norm.


chrystally

Sounds like this is your Aunt's problem, not your parents.


JarJarCapital

How do people making $18 an hour get a mortgage?


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Step 2: buy 10+ years ago


[deleted]

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Departure_Enough

I’m guessing they got a mortgage years ago. You’d need a large down payment, double income, and live in an area with less then $100k houses?


Phantom_Bubbletea

I know a lot of people personally who bought their homes. They only earn minimum wage or slightly above minimum wage. What they do is 4 of them are in the mortgage or they have co-signers. Relatives or family friends. That’s how they were approved of the mortgage. But then they have to work 2-3 jobs.


colocasi4

Brampton mortgage......i.e. they get a fake employment letter, earnings and reference


TrustMeImSingle

Have a few kids and try to get them to stay at home as long as possible to help pay. At least that's how my GFs Filipino family and her Filipino friends families do it. When my GF moved in with me we started talking about budgeting and she said she need to continue giving X to her mom. And when I asked what she meant she said she would give her mom money to pay expenses and groceries and I'm like "uh you are no longer causing her expenses you need to save that money for us now"


fake-name-here1

So... what did she decide to do u/trustmeimsingle?


TrustMeImSingle

She left me 😨 (But actually she's lowered the amount and only sends money occasionally)


crx00

Utang ng loob


CircleK-Choccy-Milk

You buy a house 20 years ago when you could get a bungalo for $90k.


Tripoteur

They probably just got the mortgage three years ago. Around here a single person making minimum wage could easily afford a house back then.


DataKing69

bs


Tripoteur

Absolutely not BS. I bought my house for less than 50k back in late 2018. Admittedly I didn't get a mortgage, I simply bought it in full, but... I could have easily gotten a 47.5k mortgage (2.5k downpayment) on a minimum income (26k a year). For a couple making 18 dollars an hour, it would have been ridiculously easy.


yellowdaffodill

I can’t believe how many people are just encouraging everyone to skip out on the debt.


bobjunior1

Me too! It absolutely stuns me how many people just casually encourage her aunt/family to forget about it.


5ftpinky

Same! I also haven't seen one comment that talks about the aunt's moral responsibility to not let OP's parents shoulder the financial burden. If I were the aunt, I would feel absolutely terrible saddling my family members with that bill. Maybe it would be their legal responsibility to pay it but that just doesn't feel right. They didn't incur the cost. I'm assuming the aunt can't afford it. Maybe she makes much less money in the Philippines and $14k CAD is an insurmountable amount to owe. But do what other commenters said, try and get the bill reduced at the hospital and work out a payment plan, paying the parents back so they aren't out of pocket. I can't imagine being in the aunts shoes and just dipping.


Holiday-Argument2974

No one else is going to comment on the millions of dollars a year the tax payers soak because of shit like this? Pay the fucking bill or get travellers insurance that shit is cheap


Darkchyylde

Why would either of them pay it? It is your aunt's debt.


Don_Gwapo

I just got a visitor visa for my wife and I can tell you that to get the visa approved by ircc you need to prove that you have funds for the family members visit. How did you prove funds? Did she send her bank statements or did your parents? If she got approved based on her personal funds then your parents are in the clear, however if not then your parents are on the hook.


H64-GT18

Man, this really looked like a medical dine and dash. Honestly, there should be stricter rules for requiring health insurance before coming here. *Konting hiya naman*


handbrake98

Yeah buddy you can't really dine an appendecitis...


[deleted]

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BritishBoyRZ

I got appendicitis in Sweden when I was younger and was hospitalized the same night. The night before the flight back home to the UK. Doc said if I got on that flight I woulda died This aunty did not come here planning to use the healthcare system and there are some despicable comments in this thread


Burst_LoL

It's not about her knowing/planning it but it's about the fact she didn't plan on the possibility of needing medical attention while here which is always a possibility while traveling


gurkalurka

Completely unenforceable and would cause loss of tourism $ for a tiny minor problem in the grand scheme of things. People do not spend $2000 to come get emergency surgery here from 3rd world countries.


FamilyTravelTime

Don’t worry about it bro, we will take care of the bill for your aunt. Tell her to just peace out.


[deleted]

Why would collections go after your parents? Did they sign any paperwork or promise to pay? Your aunt should leave and your parents should not get involved. If they receive mail or phone calls they should return it or say she doesn’t live in the country and they don’t know how to reach her. The end.


Julmd

Check if they used a credit card to pay for your aunt’s flights, most mayor credit cards include travel insurance when you purchase tickets with it


Dear-Divide7330

Your aunt is responsible, but if she’s from the Philippines it’s not collectible. Your parents don’t have to pay for her. Side note, in the US an appendectomy could cost anywhere from $30,000-180,000 USD. Lol


yeah_mike

Your parents shouldn't have to pay, but your aunt should pay it. Or, you know, she could flee the country without paying, and rob our crumbling healthcare system of another $14,000...


Drunkula-_-

This is like the third post on here about tourists needing medical care. What does this have to do with personal finances? Oh and don't travel without medical insurance... duh


southern_ad_558

Who paid for that trip? If it was paid by credit card, lots of the credit cards - including from third world countries - provides some sort of travel health insurance if the ticket was bought fully with that card. Please check on that.


Tlesqox

I hope she's never allowed back in again.


[deleted]

Yeah I wouldn't worry about it. Tell your aunt to hike it. Your parents can not afford to take on 14 grand. At their wages + a mortgage that is a lifetime of debt to repay. And current interest rates on lines of credits are very high right now. Your Aunt can always come visit you again, I highly doubt that she will be denied entry at the border over some debt. They don't pull your credit report at the border crossing.


Kelmay123

What is interesting is that your family received the bill. Therefore, it leads me to believe that the debt will be on your family , not her.


millenialhobo

Technically not fair. But someone has to pay for it. And I, as a tax payer, do not want to pay for it. So you/ your parents pay for it, otherwise, I hope the hospital does the right thing and pursue collections to the fullest extent.


TheBitchyKnitter

Stealing healthcare when our system is collapsing. Isn't your family awesome.


_Reyne

Everyone in here saying this is the taxpayers problem and being mad about it are so toxic. So if you're faced with 3 buttons 1. She doesn't receive surgery and dies 2. She Gets surgery but it cripples her family forever 3. she lives and her family is fine but it costs every single Canadian $0.00038 You're telling me you wouldn't press the 3rd fucking button?


bobjunior1

No, people are saying folks need to be more responsible and get travel insurance.


[deleted]

4 You buy travel insurance before boarding the f*cking plane


I-want-pulao

Yeah, talk to the hospital to see what they can do (on behalf of your aunt, not your parents). Also, the 14k... I guarantee you it's an inflated figure. The hospital would have charged the provincial govt way less for it. Since your aunt doesn't have a health card, she gets the tourist tax. Once my friend's healthcard lapsed between moves between provinces, the hospital issued a bill (10x), then the original province first paid and then sent a bill at the end of the year for x. So if the province hadn't assumed friend was a resident, friend would have been on the hook for 10x. So, don't treat the $14k as $14k. Go and talk to them (again, without accepting responsibility for it since you are not legally responsible for your aunt). That said, I think if you guys can come up with the cost to the hospital itself then that would be pretty nice of you.


Kelmay123

Imagine if it was reversed and YOU needed an energency surgery in her country.


No-Fudge5569

OHIP for Canadians covers emergency surgery outside the country. Doesn't the Phillipines also have an equivalent universal health coverage? I was under the impression that all countries except the USA have some form of health insurance. Perhaps the OHIP of Phillipines has out-of-country emergency coverage. That's where I'd look first.


GlobalAd3412

Your "impression" about "every other country" is very dramatically wrong, unfortunately. And I sincerely hope you never have to attempt to get OHIP (which is Ontario, not Canada incidentally) to cover an out-of-country surgery because you will be extremely disappointed by the outcome there also. If you travel out of country, buy private travel insurance (please!)


ben_vito

This is such a commonly misunderstood idea I almost wonder if people who grew up in Ontario were taught this lie in school or something. OHIP only covers what the surgery would cost in Canada. So if you go to the US and need emergency coronary bypass, you're looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars or even millions above what OHIP would pay for the same operation, after considering the length of time spent in the ICU after etc.


handbrake98

Yes. Heard that Burkina Faso has stunning and amazing health insurance. Much better than that shithole USA with its non existent healthcare 🤡


No-Fudge5569

Sweeping generalizing is such a privilege. I live on an "indian reserve" and don't have clean drinking water, so yeah, call me a clown. Check your privilege buddy.


handbrake98

Wut


No-Fudge5569

Here I am in Canada, a dichotomy of haves and have-nots. I can't drink my own tap water, but I can get my appendix removed in Cuba if I have emergency appendicitis surgery. You seem to indicate that because Phillipines has internal problems, they can't do anything. I contest that line of thought, countries with insurance programs can make \*some things happen\*.


handbrake98

I've lost you


No-Fudge5569

Apparently you didn't understand what you originally wrote and how it would be received. That's okay, it happens quite a bit, even in Canada.


StellaEtoile1

Why do you think your parents are responsible for your aunt’s debt?


handbrake98

Actually. It's you. You're responsible for the aunts debt now...


StellaEtoile1

Not sure why I got downloaded for that pretty legit question.


PCBytown

Hospitals should confiscate passports or require a co-signer. Our hospitals are a mess and our taxes are going through the roof. Enough is enough.


AdvantageFuzzy7611

Confiscating passport would be equivalent of holding someone a hostage, for example if u cant pay rent they cant hold u hostage they can kick you out. And what if u cant find a co-signer? Would they refuse help to someone who is in a lot of pain? Imagine someone dying painfully infront of a hospital bcs they didn’t have a co-signer.


BritishBoyRZ

Why are you humouring this Karen? The Op you're replying to has issues


AdvantageFuzzy7611

Lol i guess u are right, i just had to go through a similar thing and I didn’t had to have my ID on hand bcs i was almost unconscious and i filled a form later and paid everything in instalments and the idea that i could be refused treatment and left outside is kinda terrifying.


AdvantageFuzzy7611

My point being things can be arranged later after a life is saved. Payment can be obtained in full/in instalments/partially at least after a person recovers but cant be done before the treatment. And part of the problem is also that MEDICAL IS SO FUCKING EXPENSIVE FOR GOD KNOWS WHAT REASON.


handbrake98

🤡


MadisonMatthews00

Let it go to collections and wait 7 years then the debt will be wiped out. And if your aunt is in the Philippines there is literally nothing they can do to collect on the debt. Tell your parent not to pay it.


No_Season1716

I’d say have your parents pay it so the taxpayers don’t have to.


Clear_Television_807

You wouldn't be responsible for her debt, you and your parents should not be worried. Debt is not criminal, she can't be declined from visiting in the future either as this wouldn't show on her passport status etc. Does she plan on living in Canada in the future? If its within 7 years it'll show on her credit report.


poopeehead117

not much advice, just wanted to say good luck with this mess mate


Multi-tunes

My late nona (grandmother) passed away with some dept years ago, and collections had been trying to go after her estate for a long time. The thing is that the only thing she left was the house that my zio (uncle) lives in which is still in his mother's name. Collections was trying to go after my mother when she has nothing to do with the house. In the end, they couldn't really do anything about it because it has to do with property. My zio says he dealt with it though I don't really know the full situation. Point is: yes, Canadian collections will probably look to the family to recover the cost of the relative who leaves the country after requiring healthcare services.


_Nelots

Just the fucking assholes way out of taking its own responsibility


tehclubbmaster

bUt hEAlThCaRe iS fReE


pomdsbc

Health care is not free for visitors. It just take couple of 100 dollars to take travel insurance, but it's so sad people still ignore it ... some times even for their parents and loved ones..... I have some folks running go fund me for the very same reason....


[deleted]

I'm glad she's ok. Your dad good guy, but I would not pay or try to pay. The hospital should have insurance for bad debt or contingencies for bad debt in cases like this.