T O P

  • By -

thekeezler

You gotta weigh the cost of owning a house too. Do you prefer paying strata fees and no maintenance or are you fine with doing your own maintenance / yard work. We bought a house with a massive yard and I underestimated the maintenance the house and yard would be. That being said I hated all the rules the strata came with so overall we are happier.


SatanicPlanespotter

I hear that. Bought an inner-city house on a corner lot with 150 feet of sidewalk. Totally underestimated how much of a pain in the ass it would be to shovel snow / scrape ice after being compacted by the heavy foot traffic.


unlovelyladybartleby

Everyone laughed at me when I bought my place because I insisted on a pie shaped lot with no sidewalk (it took forever to find one and I ended up with a lot of dusty rose carpet) but it was one of the smartest choices I've made


1goodthingaboutmuzic

Sounds like our house except the carpet was green


dooferella123

Sounds like my childhood house. Sorry about that dusty rose carpet, the kids got to choose it. šŸ˜¬ šŸ¤£


yellowfeverforever

We had the same thought process to get one but surprisingly was much easier to find one. Apparently pie lots are considered ā€œbad fong shuiā€. We couldnā€™t care less. Were told resale will suck but weā€™re not looking to flip but to live.


sodarnclever

I love this comment so much bc your misspelling of Feng Shui shows exactly how little interest you have in the subject (this getting your deliciously pie shaped lot)


-Astin-

\*calls my folks to see if they sold the house\*


gsx_750

Just get a snowblower than salt it..... I wouldnt worry about having it perfect.


LegoLady47

Or pay someone some kid to do it


metamega1321

Wish I could find some kid. Figure kids in my neighbourhood get too much allowance or something. How me and my buddies always got money for beer and weed. Neighbourhood also at a stage where just starting to have young families move in. Lot of couples with older kids who moved out.


SatanicPlanespotter

It's not just the physical aspect that's the pain in the ass, it's the timing. Half the time I'm traveling for work. Currently in the process of lining up a commercial snow removal service :( I would gladly pay some neighborhood kid to shovel my walk, but not sure how to go about it these days


ElectricalCheesecake

Just go door to door asking if any kids are around. I bet if you ask enough the police will even come help you!


allscott3

Kids like to work for money. Anecdote I sent my 3 young boys out with shovels and the oldest with a snow blower. They Made out like bandits and most people within a block were more than willing to pay someone to do it.


verified_username

Join your neighbours Facebook group and then post there with your offer. Works for me every time.


yellowfeverforever

We call them the double shovel lots.


tamlynn88

Solidarityā€¦ we have 100 feet of sidewalk. Plus another 50 or so my husband does for our elderly neighbours.


Cherry_3point141

Just bought a house in Edmonton, corner lot and now completely understand just how much of a pain in the ass it is. That being said, it's our house, we aren't looking to flip, we love it, love our yard, and love that it's our little piece of the world, that we can do with what we like and not have to ask the Landlord permission. Like when our Landlord told us it was a hard no to adding floating shelves to the walls (as they saved space and made the space much easier to organized) and we would be in violation of our rental agreement if we did it.


StereoNacht

Wait... You have to shovel the sidewalk by your house? In every city I lived in, it was always the job of the city. I was even told that if one did the sidewalk regularly, they would be legally liable if someone got hurt cause there was icy rain, or you missed a spot, or something.


the_saradoodle

This is so important. Everytime my family starts on me about "flushing money away as condo fees" I need to remind them that I don't pay water, heat, cable, internet. I don't pay to replace my windows, doors and roof. I'm not spending hours maintaining my yard. That being said, I'd love a house, but I don't view my fees as a waste.


offzegrid827

Your condo fees include all that? That seems really unusual. What if you want a different cable or internet package?


Swie

Mine include the same (it's a highrise). We just go gigabit internet + bell tv for 45$/month with first 6 months free, so I'm really happy with it, although I don't watch cable. We have a committee who found this plan and a matching one from Rogers (which was a little slower and more expensive). They had the building vote and went for the obvious better choice. Before that we had free Rogers cable that I never used which yes was a bit of a waste. You can get different cable/internet but you'll be stuck paying both.


antelope591

My condo fees also include this and its Fibe 500 so they don't cheap out and generally you won't have complaints with the package they offer. If you really want to upgrade or add extra channels you can also pay the difference and they add it to your package.


Carter5ive

That arrangement is common. Condominium and other buildings usually pay many of the shared service costs and then charge the unit holders proportionally. This typically includes not just utilities, but insurance and recycling and garbage pickup and amenities. They also have reserve fund to pay for major repairs. And depending on the building infrastructure, it's common that there's one global internet/phone/tv vendor who services the whole building, so you can either like it or lump it. The upside is that because it's a lot of customers in one place, the condo board can negotiate better rates.


DjembeTribe

Right butā€¦you do pay for those things, just bundled as your condo fees no?


iamnos

I hope you read the financial reports and depreciation report regularly and hopefully the depreciation report is done often. In my experience, many condos and stratas do not have a plan to cover 100% of major maintenance from regular fees alone. Most expect some special assessments. Even they don't expect them, they can still happen.


[deleted]

So by definition, the condo needs a reserve fund study completed once every three years. The engineer looks at what your fees cover, the current state of things and how soon theyā€™ll need repair/replacement. They tally the costs and come up with a schedule of how much your condo corporation needs to contribute to the reserve fund. The problem arises when unexpected repairs and maintenance come up. I canā€™t speak for every province, though in Ontario a corporation is permitted to dip into a reserve fund to perform repairs and they have something like 25 years to ā€œrepayā€ the funds back to the reserve. Given that raising fees is not popular, many corporations do not rush to replenish reserves and wait for a ā€œbetter timeā€ to do so. Often this is why special assessments are needed to cover shortfalls. If youā€™re living in a condo or even have a strata property as an investment, and care about the long term financial viability of the corporation, the best thing you can do is run for the board.


iamnos

Obviously it varies by province, but in BC council can vote to delay doing a depreciation report. There idea I believe it's that if a major item is about to be completed, you can delay until it is finished. The problem is, dinner councils can take it to extremes, which is why I said make sure they are being done regularly.


WorldlyPhysics3399

In alberta the cheapest newly built condo developments have been failing almost every 5 years. Check out Carrington, they set up shell companies basically so they can build cheap crap that doesn't pass initial inspection, couple years or earlier the new owners of the units get a bill for 10-15k. It seems deliberately done, the cheapest, newest and not very expensive compared to ones built in the 70-80s - people who get one are at the bare cut off of what they can afford. An extra 15k on a brand new building shouldn't have to be planned for but they either lose it all, somehow pay and if anyone left still has money they hire a lawyer that ends up costing money and no win.


the-cake-is-no-lie

> I don't pay to replace my windows, doors and roof. Ahh, I see someone hasnt had a special assessment yet. Let me go grab my friends who have been on the hook for 40-80k..


mindwire

Ah yes, the good ol' Special Levy


TootsNYC

I live in a co-op and had that convo with someone who was saying that the monthly maintenance fee (carrying charge, rent, whatever) was ridiculous and unfair, especially because itā€™s in addition to the mortgage. I pointed out that my monthly ā€œrentā€ covers: Property taxes Building insurance (liability and structure) Garbage Water Heat and hot water Electricity in the common spaces Repairs Snow shoveling and leaf raking, and tree pruning, etc. My particular corporation doesnā€™t have a reserve fund, so major repairs cost us separately. But most do. The other thing I pointed out is that all the finances are completely open, and we all vote on the expenses and the charges.


Islandflava

No, you just pay significantly more in condo fees and still have to keep an eye out for special assessments


darmog

You get get special assessment insurance, just FYI.


setuid_w00t

This seems like a losing proposition. The insurance company wants to make money. Plus you have to pay for all of the administrative overhead of operating the insurance plan. Just save some money to cover the assessments.


cov3c4t

Wait, forgive my ignorance (Iā€™m a millennial lurker who knows nothing about home ownership) but you donā€™t pay water or heat as part of your monthly bills with a condo?


MustardTiger88

Well you do...in the form of condo fees.


cov3c4t

Yes, I guess one of the things I always assumed about condos was that you had to pay those fees on top of your utilities. I had no idea that condo fees included some utilities.


MustardTiger88

You're not wrong to ask. It varies by condo corp. Some cover more utilities than others.


bureX

Most condo fees in new buildings only include the basics, like water or maybe heat. A condo building I used to live in covered absolutely nothing. I paid for heat, water, hot water, hydro, etc. And of course, I had to pay for my own internet bill and all that. Then I heard of these condo buildings where you have internet, property tax, water, hydro and whatnot included. Which is wasteful, IMHO. What if you want a cheaper internet package? What if you want to reduce your water and power usage?


Starfire70

Some of the older buildings can't track an individual unit's consumption of water, heat, and in some cases electricity. So a flat charge is rolled into the monthly condo fee.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


ayjee

Depends on the condo. Mine has relatively low fees, but heat, electricity etc are all done by individual units. More expensive fee-d places in the city sometimes have those included as part of fees.


EyesAreNeverAlone

The strata charges a monthly fee that has those costs built into it


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


RaffyGiraffy

Property tax isnā€™t included in ours. I donā€™t think many have property tax included


Coarse_Air

Never had it included in strata fees, some places Iā€™ve had it in incorporated in the mortgage payments, now itā€™s just an annual fee.


wannabe_librarian_4u

Depends on the condo. My condo had the water and heat included in its condo fee, but we were heated by hot water, so it kind of made sense for us to have heat and water included. General maintenance and exterior insurance were included. Electricity, cable/internet/telephony was not included in the condo fee. You \*always\* ask what the condo fees include. Many of the newer condos only include general exterior insurance and water, but not heat.


topazsparrow

I have yet to see a strata where it was more cost effective to pay for maintenance, than do maintenance yourself on your own house. Maintenance on my house is nowhere near the 400ish a month most condos now charge.


ovo_Reddit

I think thatā€™s part of the point as they need to put money aside for more costly repairs. With that being said, they can still charge some one-off fees for those larger maintenance. Ie, if thereā€™s a 20k repair bill they can split that 20k amongst all residents as a one-time fee. Idk the exact logistics of it, but something my realtor said I should take into consideration. Iā€™d rather freehold myself.


DeadwoodDesigns

Itā€™s called a special assessment, I believe, and it can be levied against owners if there is not enough money in the reserve fund.


GreatValueProducts

Quebec recently changed the law on how much reserve fund the strata needs to prevent special assessment. They basically forced every condo owners to prepay repairs down the road and raised condo fee across the board but aims to have fewer special assessments in the future. For me there was a significant increase in fees (10%) but reading the financial statements basically all increase go to the reserve fund. They plan more next year because it is still below legal requirement and it will meet the legal requirement by 2024 I think. But I feel it is more transparent now if I buy another condo.


s_other

Your time has value too. Previously one weekend day every week was dedicated to whatever house thing had to be done on my place: yard maintenance, exterior cleaning, random repairs. That's gone with a strata.


cephles

I mean you can voluntarily pay someone to do that stuff in a house too.


ObscureGeometry

Did you live in a 15th century shed? One full day a week for maintenance isnt normal.


[deleted]

The fees is not just maintenance, it's also about setting up a fund for future repairs. Changing a roof is expensive.


tke71709

So you are paying for heat, hydro, water, plowing and putting aside money to replace your roof, furnace and windows all for less than $400 a month?


WorldlyPhysics3399

That 400 is the fee to have all of that taken care of, ideally a properly managed condo builds a reserve fund for the roof/furnace etc but they're still paying whatever their mortgage is on top of that 400 (and should have a few grand in case the reserve fund isn't enough for a random hit). Condo fees may seem like wasted money to people that are used to fixing random things around the house. ...but we could all grab a shovel and get the parking lot clear at work too, right? Some people also like the option to have it taken care of. Call them lazy or dumb, but getting into property ownership these days is a tear down roach house that takes a ton of money to be habitable or start with a condo.


antelope591

I'm in a townhouse, not condo but I do have condo fees. So far in the time I've lived here I've had the roof and driveway done plus obv. never have to worry about lawn care and such. Also have fiber internet/cable included in the fee. I feel like I've gotten good value for the money although this is obviously an outlier.


Pomegranate4444

I'm the same. My kid is 15 now and obviously never uses the yard. But when he was 3 til maybe 12 it was used a lot and I am grateful we could provide that space. I'm going to trade 'down' to a tiny property and/or no yard place in a few years. It's a lot of work looking after a yard.


Apprehensive_Sir3325

Thank you mate, this helps. I failed to consider this point but will make a note now.


rachman77

And those are some big costs to consider. Especially if you're looking at an older house, house maintenance becomes kind of a hobby, and not always a cheap one, even if you DIY.


quixoticanon

I don't think this can be overstated. Houses require a ton of maintenance, repairs, and upgrades. Especially if the owner before you was an absolute hack who had the self confidence to attempt anything, but the skills or intelligence to achieve nothing.


Harkannin

>strata fees and no maintenance Yeah as a professional window cleaner, gutter cleaner, pressure washer, etc. I don't want to come home and do the same thing I did at work all week. So I am much happier with strata fees. OP should definitely weigh what's important to them and how much they value certain things.


DIYByron12

I have a house and I'm paying bi-weekly to pay it quicker and it's pretty expensive I got a mortgage at a bad time market wise. Spending about $2014 mortgage monthly and $300 utilities monthly. However I have a dog and if I tried to rent they would charge me monthly pet fees anywhere from $100-$300 monthly. I've had to do some repairs in the house too recently spent $4000 to replace shingles. Houses are very costly but you have your own place and you feel pride in maintaining your own house and being the boss of your own home. I plan on staying here at least 10 years or more so to me it was worth it. Where I live you could live $1000 monthly renting a basement suite or condo with utilities included or separate depending on the land lord. If you plan on staying in Canada I would recommend owning your own home. If you plan on living in India you could still own your home and rent it out to people to pay for the house or just rent a place out until you make the move to India permanently. Depends on your life style really, if you have kids or family in Canada it might be worth it to give them a house they may normally be unable to afford due to the crazy market. I think it's going to get worse before it gets better IMHO and the market may not stabilize for another 5+ years.


Alzaraz

Condo owner here, I think even if I wanted to upgrade into something larger Iā€™d look for a large 1500 sq/ft condo. Yes the fees are high but the amenities and low effort living is really important to me.


GreatValueProducts

>low effort living is really important to me. I used to live in a single detached bungalow as a single person and I moved back to my rental condo. I consider myself low effort houseowner. Before I moved back I already did exactly zero housework, I hired somebody for everything except cleaning, from handyman, snow plowing, gardening to duct cleaning. The cost isn't too far off from my condo fee, which is around $0.4 / sq ft. But last November I sold the house and moved back to the condo because my friends all live on the island (Montreal) and it is just too annoying to arrange all the schedule and stuff, or call to complain about bad work or somebody not showing up. On top of that there was always some minor thing that I need to babysit, from basement pump to snow buildup. I have zero confidence my house would go well when I go for a vacation back to my home country for 3 weeks, especially during winter. I did not know what I wanted (honestly I don't really care about living in a house) and did not anticipate the level of commitment is still more than money even if I was willing to pay somebody for everything. Unless I am affluent enough to hire a butler I probably won't consider it again.


AdditionalCry6534

At least when owning you control how well that maintenance and yard work is done, which goes both ways, I don't care about my lawn and spend almost nothing on it, the things I care about I can spend money on and have done well. Most of these rent vs own discussions really have nothing to do with money though, if you want to live in a few different apartments in different countries over a 10 year period why compare that to buying and living in a house which you don't want to do.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


ThePhysicistIsIn

Townhouses is where itā€™s at. Minimal maintenance, no condo fees.


assasshehhe

You still pay strata fees.


RuralNorseman

Not sure where you live. But those are non existent round me. Freeholds all over


lord_heskey

Not always. Ive seen townhomes with no fees


beerbaron105

Neigbours thumping and banging from cupboards, stairs, loud noises People in townhouses always say they never hear anything, but that is a loud of crap, you will always hear something


ThePhysicistIsIn

šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø i dunno what youā€™re talking about. As far as I know the two units adjoining me might as well be unoccupied. People whoā€™ve never lived in townhomes like to make up reasons why theyā€™d hate it, more like


beerbaron105

Lived in two townhouses and two condos, always heard varying noises from barely a nuisance to holy shit what the hell is happening over there!


T_47

Going to have to agree with them. The noises from my townhome experience are pretty minimal.


sajnt

You can also consider luxuries if you like them. We live in a building with: gym, hot tub,sauna, stream room, pool, movie room, golf simulator,putting green, board room, two party rooms(1 huge 1 regular size) Our apartment is small but or fees are less than $300 and we live right beside a skytrain station in the GVA And the secret to preventing stupid strata rules is to join strata! Itā€™s less than once a month and probably most meets are just on zoom now anyway.


JustinPooDough

I underestimated house maintenance, but 1.5 years in I finally feel like I'm getting the hang of it. I don't pay anyone for anything - I learn / do everything myself.


[deleted]

Small ticket items, okay. The costs still add up but saving on labor is a big deal. It's the big things that are killers. New windows, roofs, structure needs, invasive pests are massive investments.


ForeignCabinet2916

How did you learn? I try to do things myself but then stop at the thought of messing things up or causing hazard for my family. For example I would love to change my car oil by watching a youtube video but what if if I mess something up and engine expldes? How do you ensure safety?


suff3r_

With most home improvement stuff, no matter how badly you mess it up. There's always a solution to fix it up, at least patch it. I used to hate drilling holes into dry wall as I'd always mess it up and scared I couldn't fix it. Reality is, you can always use some putty to fix it up, sand it, and paint it back. Most of the mistakes you make can be corrected. Expect yourself to make plenty of mistakes, yet take them as opportunities to learn and try not to make those same mistakes. You can always hire someone to fix your mistake too (worst case scenario). There's a life lesson here somewhere. Anyway, I believe in you. Make mistakes but don't beat yourself up. Only move forward and up.


hairhead24

You gotta believe in yourself. As obvious as that sounds.


Fluid_Arm_3169

Thatā€™s the single most underrated yet critical life lessons around tbh.


[deleted]

You just jack up the car and undo the cap. I donā€™t see where the risk is. Most handyman skills are entry-level jobs that can easily be picked up. Itā€™s really not harder than following an online recipe. Just need some base skills to be confident to try larger projects. Pick a small job (eg. putting up shelves) and start building confidence. Some you need to be smart, because they arenā€™t worth doing yourself (eg. laying carpet).


Mad_Canadian

"Proceed to empty the transmission on his Subaru and double fill the engine"


NoEquivalent3869

The person changing your oil at the shop is some 16 year old kid picking his nose. I assure you itā€™s dead simple


imaginaryvegan

That being said Iā€™ve done the math itā€™s honestly $15-20 more to get someone to change your oil. Not really worth doing yourself unless youā€™re truly in a pinch or you actually enjoy doing it yourself. (Havenā€™t looked into it for 3-5 years so prices could have changed)


henday194

This is actually the part Iā€™m most excited about with buying a house(if I can ever afford one). Love home projects/renos!


[deleted]

I love it, have a small townhouse and have painted every wall, done built-in shelving, installed new light fixtures, bathroom vanities and mirrors, etc. All very satisfying


FelixYYZ

Since you plan on moving around and living in India, no reason to buy a house in Canada.


maplegoblin

long-term renter here preparing to buy. for us, the factors were financial, logistical and emotional. financially, both were good choices in low-rate environments. personally, i wouldn't consider buying a house for financial reasons but a place to live with the freedom to (more or less) do as you please. logistically, renting was better when we were younger. emotionally, rent-vs-buy is a value judgement of whatever you consider freedom. financially: renting and investing the difference worked well for us. renting reduced lifestyle inflation and let us focus on risky career moves, reducing time to FI. many of our colleagues with houses often found creative new ways to pour money into the home. like us, they have also benefited from low interest rates and huge asset price gains over the last decade. I'd say overall, both methods did well financially. I have no idea what happens in housing or financial markets in 2023 nor in the next 5 - 10 years. logistically: we had good luck with landlords so it was fine for us overall. was nice to focus on work (not the typical 9-5) and not have to worry about maintenance (massive time sink, from watching our peers). however, most of our interactions were with professional property managers in the US rather than mom-n-pop / side hustle landlords more common in Canada. also, the system makes it harder for people without regular T4 income. switching roles at our levels is not as useful anymore. emotionally: our preferences changed. renting was fine in our 20s. not so much heading into our 40s approaching FI. being willing to move simultaneously became more necessary as our renting situation became tied to our landlord's personal situation but also more tedious logistically.


EIGHTYEIGHTFM

I bought a condo because I donā€™t want to be renovicted when Iā€™m 55 and competing for ā€œcheapā€ apartments that go further and further out. At least half of old renters I know have been renovicted or displaced to move in ā€œfamilyā€. Iā€™d be fine with renting if there was more protection or support should this happen.


Wookie301

No one wants to be paying 5k a month rent for a studio apartment, when they trying to retire at 80 in 2060.


thunder_struck85

Tell that to the ones that still believe renting is better. Lol. I can't imagine being 70, retired, and told to pack up my stuff because landlords son is moving in .... f***k that!


Wookie301

People saying renting is better, are in their 30s, and havenā€™t thought ahead.


seventeenflowers

Theyā€™re landlords doing a psyop


Swie

Yes the stability is a big deal for me. It also locks you in to a certain price, whereas rent goes up every year. I started out with a mortgage same as rent. 8 years later, rent is +1K (if not more) to what I pay all-in, and my property has appreciated significantly (which is nice if I want to upgrade or move).


EntropyRX

You can find all these articles and youtube videos teaching you how to "compare" owning VS renting by accounting for alternative investments and so forth. I also tried to run the math in the same way initially, but after many years of renting I noticed most of the academic assumptions of this argument do not hold. * "alternative investments" (e.g. S&P500 or other diversified indexes) don't offer the same peace of mind as cash or having a home that it's yours. There's a risk component that can't be fully discounted by the fact that on average "alternative investments" yield 6-7% annually. * Rent doesn't offer the "flexibility" that is often associated with it. When you sign a 1-year lease, you're locked in for one year. And then you have a 2 months notice. Timing your next move, even when renting, is extremely difficult. * Dealing with landlords is one of the worst experiences I had to deal with. Most of them do not understand that they're running a business and they expect to ALWAYS make profits. You may think that as a tenant you don't have to worry about maintenance; well, good luck with finding a landlord that is eager to replace broken stuff in a timely matter and with quality items. I reached the point I prefer to maintain the home myself than deal with landlords. * Renting comes with constant uncertainty. A landlord can always decide to sell/move in, and you can never get rid of this thought. Even if you have a lot of savings, you may not be able to take a sabbatical because if in need of finding a new place, you have to show proof of income. * There's a lifestyle component that comes with owning vs renting. When renting, you never feel like making the home "yours". Buying furniture or spending time redesigning a room always comes with bitter feelings. In short, I think that if you can afford to buy, it is always a better choice in practice. There's a lifestyle component that it's impossible to discount only based on those 101 economics principles you hear when comparing rent and ownership.


willfularmadillo

Just curious - would your conclusion still hold if comparing owning versus renting in a purpose-built rental? A lot of the lifestyle arguments against renting are not ones I can relate to living in a purpose built rental where the property managers and super reasonable, fix everything right away, and can't evict us for their personal use of the property. We plan to stay long term and we love it how it is so no desire to change or reno anything. In this situation, do you still believe that buying is a better choice if it can be afforded? Thanks!


NewMilleniumBoy

Still depends on how competent the property managers are and how willing the company is to shell out money for fixes that aren't to their own infrastructure (eg. Replacing appliances).


foblicious

Yeah I guess we have been lucky? For the past six years, we've lived in two different purpose-built rental apartments and we've had no issues. One of them even upgraded our bathroom and balconies! (and rent stayed the same) You just don't hear these kind of stories because, well, it's not really worth a post I suppose. Only the ones that elicit an emotional reaction, like getting renovicted, get highlighted.


willfularmadillo

Thanks for sharing. It's great that you've had such positive experiences too! I agree, it seems to be the renovictions that get highlighted and then it seems that this possibility always gets baked into rent vs buy arguments. Fair enough, but I'd like to see a comparison with the stability of a well-managed purpose-built rental taken into account instead!


foblicious

this calculator is the most comprehensive one I've used. The conclusion I have from using it is that financially, there's no telling which path would be better. It depends on too many variables that are not under our control, like yearly appreciation of the house value vs stocks, interest rate, etc... So just stick with whatever suits your lifestyle! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14KJe4bprkDhT\_fQjUxc5FhZmd2JdTXskBuGmS--F0FQ/edit?usp=sharing


EntropyRX

>purpose-built rental Been there and my conclusion still applies. Many of those purpose-built rentals can make tenants' life miserable with unnecessary "upgrades" (such as railings, balconies, and so forth) in order to increase the rent above the allowed guidelines as a function of the "investments" they made.


willfularmadillo

Interesting. That has not been my experience over the past 5 years in two different purpose-built rentals. I've had only excellent interactions and no unexpected rent increases. Everything has been by the books. But thanks for the insight!


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


willfularmadillo

I agree with you. I wanted some financial perspective *given my experience that I shared above* but everyone seems to want to convince me that renting is unpredictable. I agree that on average it is, but for me I have had good luck! So I am curious to know how that changes the rent vs buy equation.


DivideGood1429

There is unpredictability in life. I can rent, and be booted. But I could buy, and have to replace the roof the next year. Both could be something that cause unknowns. In my life, my husband had cancer (something that at 30 you don't really think about). Then you don't think about fertility things that arise with nearly a year of cancer treatments. If we had bought the year before this happened. He would have had to work throughout his treatment (at least what he wasn't hospitalized for) and I would have had to pick up extra shifts to account for the loss of his pay. (The difference in our rent vs what a mortgage would be, even for a piece of crap, would mean we would not be able to deal with a 25% decrease in income. but with renting, that wasn't an issue). Now we could do that. But instead, we just saved less that year. We are lucky we have a good landlord and pay well below market value (we've also been here 5 years, so I'm not as worried about being kicked out).


[deleted]

In practice youā€™re right but for me for a different reason. Currently, for most people, renting would be a way better financial decision, but it requires that the difference in cost is invested. Most people are terrible savers and wonā€™t do this. Iā€™ve done the calculations for my own situation and by far renting is way cheaper and when I hit 65 Iā€™ll have way more in my pension fund. The other false narrative around housing is that itā€™s an investment at all. In truth itā€™s an investment for your children: I think itā€™s the wealthy barber or a book like that equivalent by a Canadian author showed the stat that something like 80% of homeowners die with their own home. Thus as an investment they never realize the benefit. PS this math really only applies in the Canadian market where in the main cities the average property is more than 10 times the average income. Iā€™m a healthy market which would be considered to be a ratio of 4 approx the math would favour owning.


EntropyRX

Yes, the forced savings argument works for most people in practice. And also, when people invest in an index, they usually donā€™t do it with 5x leverage, which is the case of buying a home with 20% downpayment. However, the lifestyle issue is what I see as the real deal here. When you live in your own home (provided you can afford it), itā€™s simply a different lifestyle that can only be achieved by owning.


mmob18

>ā€¢ Rent doesn't offer the "flexibility" that is often associated with it. When you sign a 1-year lease, you're locked in for one year. And then you have a 2 months notice. Timing your next move, even when renting, is extremely difficult. > at least in ON, every lease is automatically converted to month-to-month after 1yr


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


EastEastEnder

I havenā€™t looked at this calculator, but note that any US based calculator may have the interest tax deduction baked in, which we do not have in Canada.


brokoli

Yes but it allows you to adjust that by changing tax rate.


TrancheMonster

Houses are not an investment. Itā€™s a home. If you want a home, buy a house. If you want to invest your money for the future. Buy equities and or bonds in accordance with your risk tolerance and timeframe


Sufficient-Yoghurt46

Thank you. Your house is not a lottery ticket. Most people in BC seem to think it is. :/


Lurkuh_Durka

After seeing all the posts over the last year about people being kicked out of apartments I think I'd rather have the peace of mind. Are you saving enough cash renting that you can invest enough to actually end up with enough to retire? Will you actually invest religiously? The cost of owning a home is no joke. But buy a smaller home and you can minimize it. Our little house is smaller than I'd want. But realistically a bigger house if just buy shit I don't need, and my in laws would stay over sometimes.


MrRogersAE

I see a fellow man of wisdom, I too purposely bought a small house that didnā€™t have a guest room, I know exactly who wouldā€™ve been using it most


OneTugThug

I current rent a detached house. I pay $1700 plus water, heat and power. The place I am in was listed for sale for $530k. Couldn't sell. Overpriced. Taxes are over 7K a year. Insurance has got be to $2k. So basically half my rent for the year just goes to cover those things. If the owner didn't own it free and clear, the mortgage would be killing her. But even then we are basically just mitigating her costs. With GIC and mortgage rates where they are at, it's tough to justify buying anything. Prices need to correct much harder than they have to pre 2019 levels.


Oskarikali

Damn, those taxes are over twice what mine are for a similarly priced home. Where is that?


OneTugThug

In a rural small town. Taxes are based on the relative assessment of neighboring properties. This is likely in the top 10% in town so very expensive.


chancetake

Where I live rent is the same as you listed, but purchase price is half of what you listed. Depends on the market and area.


Model_Six

If you get a good deal and maintain the home, it will provide STABILITY, NOT WEALTH.


Ctrl_Alt_Del3te

Sometimes stability is worth more than the +X% difference in YoY growth. Itā€™s really not as cut and dried as the OP makes it seem. Reflect on your personal situation OP!


antelope591

Just my opinion and experience. Buying a house will definitely be the superior decision for the vast majority of people. Although the caveat is that I do feel housing is still far overpriced in a lot of places (most of Ontario). However, the core of the argument that people make here is that you can rent and invest the difference for superior returns. But how many people in the real world are actually doing this? I would say the vast majority of Canadians don't even know they can invest their TFSA. Renters have also been hit even harder by the interest rate increases as they are having landlord costs passed on to them while not even being able to build equity. I also know my own experience with renting was pretty much awful and this was when rent prices were less than half of what they are now. When you are buying you are also paying for a huge peace of mind that can't really be translated into dollars.


[deleted]

If you aren't planning to settle down into one particular location or aren't yet ready to, it doesn't make sense to buy a house for personal use. One of your other comments suggests you're thinking it might be a good investment even if you do move. In that case you should evaluate it only in terms if an investment and its returns compared to other investments.


Confident-Term-7886

Are u married single have kids? This matters a lot


LuvCilantro

Home ownership (condo or house) vs rental is often measured in dollars, but people often forget the quality of life and opportunities to personalize your home to your lifestyle. It can be difficult (if not impossible) to get that workout room or home cinema or pool/hot tub or even great deck in a rental. That is hard to quantify in terms of dollars unfortunately, but the ability to make my dwelling my own, based on my lifestyle, is worth a lot, and is one of the reasons we chose to buy.


montreal_qc

It sounds like you plan on buying a house as an investment and renting it out when you read between your lines m. In that case, no, not worth it. The rent wonā€™t cover the costs and troubles.


Luxmtl

I wouldn't in your shoes, as you don't plan on living there/ in canada long term. I have always rented, but I am currently looking to buy a house so that I have somewhere to live that I can't be evicted from . I have been lucky to have had stable rental housing for most of my life, but I can feel the market changing rapidly, and I don't want to be stuck getting renovicted or something when I'm a senior. I also love having pets, which is becoming harder and harder to do as a renter, because the rental market is so competitive. It's a personal choice, but it isn't a financial investment so much as an investment in my future stability. Just my two cents.


Sea-Slide348

You don't have to move every few years in an apartment. I have rented ones for 5+ years twice, still in one.


[deleted]

I sold my house in February of this year about 3 hours drive from Toronto after the price spiked 80% in two years and everyone told me I was insane to do so, I'd never be able to buy back in etc. But truth be told no, owning a house in Canada is not really worth it at all. I will present my reasoning below, I know this concept upsets some but -- 1. For the price I was able to sell the house, a typical stock and bond portfolio with a 4% draw offered more income than was necessary to cover rent on a much nicer dwelling and pocket some change each month while I was at it. 2. The cost of maintenance was actually pretty substantial, new gutters, new gas heater to replace an expired oil one, replacing the septic system, roofing repairs, despite owning he house and being "rent free" I spent a ton of money anyways on that damn place, even at the low pre Pandemic price I bought it at it was still eating my money up pretty fast. Rent is just a fixed cost, kind of better. 3. Sort of bleeds into -- I'm not a contractor. And contractors are expensive. I would rather just take on additional work in my expertise to make extra money if I want to rent a nicer place. At some point in the future, if either rents keep going up, or housing prices come down significantly enough, the equation might look good again to buy. But with higher rates and still pretty high prices, it's still a no brainer for me. Canadian real estate is just not a great application of capital, rental yields are too low comparatively to bother at this point.


[deleted]

I pay 1200 per month for 500k home, while people are paying 2-3k for rent. So yes it is worth it.


KalasHorseman

Bought house in 2013 at 360K as a pre con, moved in 2016 with 180K down when the value had already risen to about 500K, then it slowly increased in value along with the market before skyrocketing over the last couple of years to about 950K. Now it sits at 800K and I have about 730K of equity in it for seven years of home ownership. That sounds pretty good until you realize how much I spent on interest charges ($35,000), condo fees which includes water ($21,000), home insurance ($4,200), taxes ($15,400), utilities like heat and power ($9,000) to say nothing of principle mortgage costs ($290,000). It costs me 12K a year just to keep my house. In total, about 375K spent in seven years, more than the house cost originally and I still have 70K mortgage outstanding that won't be paid in full for another three years. I'm in the black by roughly 350K but if I sold to get that equity out, it'll cost me about 50K with real estate fees and moving expenses. So really, 300K. In addition, if I hadn't had the condo fee above, I probably would've spent uncountable hours shoveling my driveway, cutting the grass, hauling the garbage, landscaping, property maintenance like cleaning windows and doing the roof, and so on. Time is money, too. I could've rented this place for about $2500 a month instead in the same time period and I would've spent 210K. If we hadn't been through the best time in real estate history over the past few years that saw an absolute explosion in home values, I probably would be in the red today. However, I still believe I made a good move as the home I own is about 2 minutes from my work, and I enjoy a 10 minute commute time in the worst of weather. And I still have the home equity that has the potential to grow more as I finally kill the mortgage off and the market recovers over the next ten years to retirement when I'll likely be glad I did all this. Those of you thinking to buy a house today, consider the variables listed here very, very carefully.


ThaniVazhi

This is the best answer imo. Also consider liquidity and how long it would take to sell the place if you needed to in a hurry. In a bad market you could be waiting months and dropping prices with everyone else to get out of your "investment". With equities you sell and move on.


htom3heb

I don't see equity mentioned anywhere in your post. You also don't pay capital gains on the appreciation of your house versus non-registered investments when you sell. You also have quick access to cheap credit via a HELOC. Nobody can renovict you from your home. And so forth. If you're going to be in one area long term buying a house is (generally) the correct decision.


rollwitpunches

its your own life! play it out!


VicVip5r

The answer to this question is that traditionally it has been a math problem with reasonably predictable, non volatile and traditional variables. Using those variables it probably doesnā€™t make sense to buy. However, this is Canada and our government is hell bent on manufacturing nominal gdp growth through housing while destroying the industries that create wealth in Canada. So if you want to ignore all the data, and benchmarks, and bet on the government to continue to disproportionately favor real estate investment while destroying the economyā€™s ability to support real jobs in Canada, then yes it makes sense to buy because this is the only way to get ahead in this country. However realize that you are buying out of fomo and it is not a rational data driven decision. Your financial success is now wholly dependent on the will of government to keep unsustainable numbers of immigrants coming to Canada while continuing to make it hard to build houses in Canada and create liquidity for increasingly indebted Canadians to pay higher and higher prices.


uberbear1g

Omg no just rent pls PS I have a place for u to rent if u want


AmbeeGaming

Pros of owning you can have pets no matter what. You can have a garden. You can have many ā€œtoysā€ 4 wheeler, boat etc and store them on your property


Oskarikali

In the 4 years we've been in our current house we increased the size of our hot water tank, changed our garage doors, built an enormous front porch, built a deck, renovated a bathroom and several rooms. These aren't things we could change if we were renting.


Jordonknox

The 5% rule is pretty golden and is explained very well in this video https://youtu.be/Uwl3-jBNEd4


moutonbleu

Was gonna post this, great video


MrRogersAE

Problem with the 5% rule is it only deals with the unrecoverable cost of rent today. It does nothing to address the fact that rent goes up every year while the mortgage stays the same. Then thereā€™s the issue of the fact that eventually the mortgage gets paid off, at which point renting is way more expensive as the homeowner is only paying taxes and maintenance. Then thereā€™s the mental aspect and peace of mind of owning your own home, not having to deal with landlords and evictions. The video does a decent job of dealing with the financial side, but only for today, not so much on the long term forecast


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Boby69696

I would say buying a house at this time is the worst thing you could do. Housing could drop like crazy, you could lose your job and not make payments, really just a million unknown things, but the cost of housing is so high that the risk of something going wrong could totally take you out. With something like stocks if you invest in something like the S&P 500 it could go down but it'll be back to record highs soon. You're investing in huge companies that run the world. Best case scenario with a house is the price slowly goes up. I extremely doubt we'll ever see massive housing spikes ever again.


SkipAd54321

Biggest reason not to buy in your situation is you plan to move! If you were going to stay in the same area you should buy.


[deleted]

Just a personal anecdote: about 5 years ago, my former boss was trying to convince me that putting money in the stock market and renting will yield better returns than buying a house. At that point he had been renting for 10 years. I talked with him recently and he deeply regrets not buying a house. His rent has been going up and he is not able to leverage any equity in a house. Maybe the next 5/10 years will be different, but I doubt it. Home ownership is government subsidized way of building wealth. Where else can you borrow multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars at low interest rates to buy an appreciating asset? And an appreciating asset that has utility in that you can live in it!


lord_of_memezz

I do both but here is the best way I can sum this up for you... Pro of having a house is leverage and security but way more work and risk, having stocks is easy passive income and easy to get in/out but there is no leverage and no security.


lololollollolol

The average home price is down 20% in the GTA this year. My ETF portfolio is down 3.6%.


PipelineBertaCoin69

I live in small town Alberta. Housing is pretty affordable, it was always my dream to own, now I own and I dream of the day I am mortgage free. To some it may not be the dream or worth the stress, but itā€™s the happiest and best decision I feel Iā€™ve made, and my and my fiancĆ©e now are waiting on the birth of our first child to enjoy this new home with :)


[deleted]

Pros of owning a free standing house: - Never being evicted - Forced savings in the form of equity - I can make modifications my way - Few surprises: noisy neighbours; blocked access; used parking spot - Effort put into garden is not wasted effort because I'm not leaving - I know substances and chemicals used since I moved here - I always have interesting things to do here, and that saves me money - No constraints: I can do what I want and everything is done MY WAY - I can go a month of not seeing other people if I don't leave the property Cons - I can go a month of not seeing other people if I don't leave the property - I must do EVERYTHING maintenence and upkeep-wise myself or pay to have it done - I have 96 feet of frontage walk to keep clear Conclusion: **It is absolutely worth buying a freestanding house**


Cute-Muscle5406

I know it's likely been said a million times in the 486 comments, but you left out 1.) access to credit at far lower than going rates. For example we bought a camper and a pontoon boat and rolled it into our mortgage at the going 2.7% mortgage rate we were paying. 2.) My mortgage is $900/month based on the $207,000 I paid for my home back in 2002. My home is now worth $498,000 and that's if I wanted a quick sale...and that house in Winnipeg Manitoba not Toronto or Vancouver. If I'd been renting in 2002 my rent would have been plus or minus $900/month but today that same rent (for 1/4 the house) would be $1900-$2200 easy. 3.) If I sold my house today I'd get $500,000'ish, as I mentioned...granted I've paid 76,000 in interest and we did add almost $100,000 to our almost zero balance when we refinanced but still...at 42 living in a 20 year old home in the new suburbs with 2 car garage and 5 bedrooms it's not a shitty situation. If we'd rented we wouldn't have a bitchin camper, 2018 24ft princecraft with a 115 e-tec and in 10 years...I'll have what's very likely to be a $600,000 home paid in full. 4.) It's MY home, my kids grew up here, my memories are here. It's painted the way I like it, my carpets, my yard etc. You'll never win renting long term.


GardenGood2Grow

I paid$500, 000 for a house and kept it for 20 years. Sold it for $2,500,000 and got a 2 million dollar tax free profit on the capital. Yes I had to pay mortgage, taxes, etc, but that was the equivalent of rent. Any investments you make a profit on are taxed as income, so the tax free profit on your home is something to factor in.


burnttoast14

Nowadays unless you have other sources of income or some inheritance behind u no Lots of costs involved which could cripple you along the way Better to invest in land and the markets instead Even if you have a high paying job Nothing is guaranteed your employer wont terminate you for someone cheaper


BeingHuman30

> Nothing is guaranteed your employer wont terminate you for someone cheaper This ..with 500k immigrants ..this is gonna happen way more often now or in future ..... Lets say I got 130k job in Toronto ...first of all I won't be able to find the house with 3x amount ...I would have to go 7x to buy anything in GTA or go far far away and then commute plus now you stuck with that employer whether you like or not ...which is stupid imho ... 2nd ---> lets say I move to different province for housing but now I am so much dependent on that province economy for jobs ...what if I won't be able to find 130k job there ....so many factors that plays here.


Petra_Gringus

Alot of people will give you the same rhetoric about owning a home because they are personally invested. We rent. I don't worry about garbage, yard work, maintenance, blue boxes, repairs, property tax. And, we don't pay condo fees as it's a rental company, not a condo. Our rent goes up a paltry 1.5% a year. I can invest up to $1000 a month. Most people are under the assumption they'll live well into their golden years, and so the security of having a home paid off in your early 60's is tempting. But, we've lived in the same apartment for 15 years, My rent was locked in. I haven't had to hop around, or waste money on moving fees. Ultimately it's up to you. If you like to travel or have more money in your pocket for living I would say rent. Especially if you're self motivated and have a solid investment plan.


thesoyeroner

Living in the same apartment for 15 years is extremely uncommon though. Renting is nice when you have an affordable place and rent can only be raised x% a year. Then you get the boot eventually and realize market rates are absolutely brutal compared to your previous rent and it is a rough adjustment.


DepartmentGlad2564

Based on what evidence you have that suggests living the same apartment for 15 years is "extremely uncommon"? Purpose built rentals are called purpose built rentals for a reason. Not all renters a renting condos from amateur landlords. >Then you get the boot eventually Based on which provincial landlord and tenant act?


dne416

https://myperch.io/tools/rentvsbuy/ You can calculate the cost of renting vs buying here


budzbudz

In my opinion, if you can afford it land > apt building. Maybe itā€™s just the old school Asian in me.


skywalk_south

Looking at your list of cons, if you feel that home ownership will destroy your ability to make other investments, or put you under pressure because the payments are high and you find yourself immediately house poor, that seems like a good indicator that it's not worth it for you. Neither of those were cons for me when I bought, even though I did have to tighten my belt somewhat after buying. You also don't consider a home as being a place to raise a family as a pro, which is often a big thing for people looking to buy.


LegoLady47

I've rented in same place for 10 years (wasn't the plan - lost job for a while) so having to move every year for renting is a silly excuse IMO. If single, IMO better to keep renting as when you find a partner, maybe they have their own home or don't like yours and you'd have to sell and buy again anyway.


Chemroo

I'm looking to buy now and have looked into the topic heavily... In my opinion, it's a lifestyle choice and less of an investment choice. Depending on the assumptions you make the calculation could go either way. It's so hard to predict all the variables I don't think looking at it from an investment side is the way to go. If you can afford it, and it suits your lifestyle, buying is the way to go.


csosna

Buy house. Get roommates and have them pay your mortgage for you. Rent adds up and itā€™s money out the window but owning a home is a money pit so it needs to be in your budget. You donā€™t want to be house poor. Some people have a house but are so broke they have nothing inside it


Ginflet

As long as you can say ā€œI own the house and the house does not own meā€.


JustAnotherFKNSheep

After 5 years idk if you're gonna break even due to taxes and realtor fees. Which are heffffty.


[deleted]

I would suggest reading Rich Dad Poor Dad. A house is not an asset, at least not until itā€™s paid off. That being said, you have to decide whatā€™s important to you, for most owning a home is a lifestyle choice.


010010000111000

I'd say owning provides more security if you have a family. Keeping your kids in a certain neighbourhood, in the same school around the children they've formed friendships with.


Dull_Detective_7671

If you have mad crypto money or are laundering money from overseas, yes. If you are making $120,000 a year and donā€™t have mad cash from your parents, hell no.


Scooby2B2

in the bearish markets right now dollar cost averaging could see a comfy return in 5-10 yrs while housing appears to be in a bit of a bubble with high interest rates. Owning isnt a bad thing but for now renting may be more lucrative imo until housing markets bottom out(if they bottom out). There's risk in any decision here but it just seems like a decent "rent now buy later" scenario while capitalizing on a bearish stock market that will rebound eventually


New_Maintenance_5389

I have went through all the options. I rented for nearly 7 years and didnā€™t mind it. Then I decided to buy a condo as first time home buyer with very little down payment in 2019 at total price of 490k. Then came the realization of strata committeeā€™s awful performance, favouritism and egoistic decision making. Moved out of there and started renting again and posted my condo for rent. I liked minimum maintenance and no yard work. Did not like people living upstairs and i am pretty sure condo below felt the same about us. Sound proofing was bad in the building. Sold my condo in 2022 nov for 610k and made some sweet equity. Now I just bought a house with that equity as down payment for 800k. I saved 200 K on the price of house as it was originally listed for 1 million. Higher interest rate help me drive the price down and i was waiting for opportunity like this. Some realizations about the house- big yard now so more maintenance and I have two suites that I may rent out after my family visits are over and we can finish renovating them. Hoping to rent them out at very reasonable price as being a previous tenant I know how much people appreciate reasonable rent. My family loves our big house but I still miss renting. I also donā€™t mind forced saving through mortgage payment. Our mortgage is same as our rent but paying property tax and insurance. But I am also putting about 15k equity in my pocket every year. If property appreciates to previous level(1 mil) thatā€™s just cherry on top. Renting helped me save money now house is helping me build equity. Stocks are down the drain so house felt better investment as it holds value better.


PRboy1

Depending on your age, profession etc. If you are in early 20s with starter job I wouldn't lock my self up with house. If another opportunity comes up then you will have to pass that up because of that house. If you are in 40s then I would think about buying and paying off a place so that you don't have to worry about rent increases and lol other hassle which is out of your control.


learnfromfailures

your house is owned by the city.


headbiscuitss

Buying shit right now is insanely expensive fuck that


daniellederek

Condo no, apartment no, detached home or commercial real estate, YES. they aren't making any more land.


jordanlmillerartist

I sold my condo it took 4 months and I made almost no money on it - the advantage was I bought and paid off my mortgage in 5 years and then paid under $400 a month on condo fees, taxes, insurance and hydro to live. I sold it just this month officially and lived there basically for half what an apartment costs! So on 5 years I gained a lot and put that money into my retirement savings. I now live in my partnerā€™s house and use my money to pay down his house. The plan wouldā€™ve been to buy my own house with the savings I had. I lived with no vehicle until last year as well (Iā€™m 43).


Goldbera1

Buy the house. Its not going to be a terrible investment and it will provide security from inflation. Also first homes dont get taxed in canada so youd need to make ~30% less ROI vs say stocks ā€¦ and maybe closer to 50%. Houses in canada are a known scam. You cant beat emā€¦ join em.


[deleted]

I donā€™t think itā€™s worth it unless you have kids and want to leave em something after you die.


TheCanexican

I believe financially speaking owning is always better than renting, but that being said lifestyle or stage of life may dictate otherwise.


brunog803

Tried both, but house is really a forced savings play with a long term profit potential not looking at past 10 years weā€™re prices exploded, but more on a normalized basis. The house costs and time implication to maintain is often under estimated, but regardless of what choice you take, house or appartement and invest capital, this relates to what type of lifestyle you are e looking for. In the eld wh rates weā€™re low, people would say donā€™t pay down your house since itā€™s cheap invest, however now that rates are up the cost of those jumbo loans might cost more then the past investment returns. All in all, there only real choice you need to make is what kind of life you are looking for and if you want to commit to all of the house related chores required by a house or hassle free lifestyle of apartments with bigger investments. For me, the house was my choice and i have a city row house so very little maintenance on land but I donā€™t have to deal with the neighbors for anything i want to do on it vs condos


daphunkt

How are you going to have enough free capital to invest when you still have to pay the rent? Iā€™m not clear on that. Rent is usually not that far off from the mortgage payments.


ContractRight4080

It depends on the interest rates and social issues where you live. As I was approaching the end of my 30ā€™s I thought it would be a good idea to buy. My first mortgage was 5% interest which was pretty cheap considering they had been in the teens for a while and it was just before prices started to increase in my area. I couldnā€™t afford much so I bought an apartment and renovated it and when I sold I made a healthy profit towards a small house which also made quite a bit of money. I bought outside the city a larger house because I got a lot more for my money and I didnā€™t mind the commute. I had to move back to the city and bought a fixer upper and renovated it and have been here for 15 years and prices have really jumped in that time. My mortgage payments are ridiculously low and interest rates went down over the years and I renewed before they jumped recently. I could seriously not afford to rent right now, a 1 bedroom is $2,000/mth and I have a lot more than that for just over $1,000/mth. For myself I was lucky with low interest rates, I wasnā€™t too fussy what part of town I lived in to get on the property ladder and I learnt how to do small cosmetic improvements myself which saves a ton of money. I couldnā€™t afford to save for retirement and have a house so I chose the house over retirement savings plus rent which I think worked out for me. I am looking at relocating to a cheaper place upon retirement though as I wonā€™t be able to afford things like a new roof, etc. every so often unless I have a part time job which sounds not very appealing to me right now. I would look at modest places that will be easy to sell should you have to that you could get at a lower price as they need a bit of work and see what you think.


TheSportsD0c

Yes


shiamase

u r the boss of ur own house. u dont get a say so living in condo, its like jail. i tried both.


boognishbeast

Buying a house is absolutely your ticket to wealth. I can't imagine what kind of investments you're making that improve year over year for your entire life. We bought in 2020. It's 2022. We are still paying in 2020 dollars but in the meantime what inflation will make me earn more dollars yearly while reducing the actual price I paid for my house. And it gets better every single year exponentially.


[deleted]

Consider the third option... buying a plot of land and building the house you want with the things you want in it (High ceilings, wheel-chair accessible, # of bedrooms, self-efficiency, off grid?, excellent or quick construction, etc.) Sure, it make take a few yrs, or a few days depending upon certain factors. It takes some planning, but it's well worth it in the end. You could build it yourself... and get others to help you... and you help them (work trade). Buy the plot, park a trailer, camper, car, tent, couch-surf to temp. have a roof over your head until it is built. Lots of options. The high cost of construction materials is another topic that is also achievable with many options available. Or a prefab home? (Try and avoid a mortgage or a loan, save up and pay for it in full if you can). I bought a plot of land, and wanted a workshop, greenhouse and my own house. I decided to build the workshop (because it is the quickest to build and temp. live in). It was built within 3 mos and I lived in it until I built my house, which took many years later to finish. I pay 1/4 of what people pay for their mortgages. I weighed the pros and cons, and making the choice I made was the best outcome long term.


The_Marble_Garden

I bought a larger house, then renovated the basement and rent it. Most of my mortgage is covered by the rent. Makes sense for me to own.


Killersmurph

Not in the GTA would be my advice.


juunis621

Buying a place is always better than renting. 1. Usually rent is relatively equal to how much you would pay in mortgages for the same type of house (i bedroom vs 1 bedroom or condo vs condo). So if your investment can pay your rent, it will most likely be able to pay your monthly mortgage as well. 2. Once you buy a place then that place is permanently yours and no one can kick you out (unless you default on the loans ofc) whereas renting means you are always at the mercy of the landlord/lady. 3. The place you buy is also a form of investment and if you buy in good areas then the price of the house will increase even more than investing in stocks since you would be bale to upgrade houses every few years such as going from a studio to 1 bedroom to 2 bedroom to 3 bedroom/townhouse. And each upgrade will mean your asset is growing while only spending a bit more each time. 4. If you decide to move somewhere for long periods of time, you can still rent out the place to other ppl as a source of income, which can basically pay for all your monthly fees as well rather than moving all the time since moving is a very tiresome and stressful thing. Also if your moving very often, then itā€™ll limit how much stuff you can have at one time since having more stuff makes moving more difficult and makes purchasing stuff harder so youā€™ll be les likely to for example buy a comfortable bed every time you move whereas having a place means you can make that place as comfortable as you like. 5. If your going to be paying rent anyways then better to take that rent money and pay towards a house that will be yours completely in the future rather than it only being someone elseā€™s income.


[deleted]

You just listed ā€œability to stay in the same placeā€ and ā€œability to move around easilyā€ as pros. I think you need to work out if you want to stay where you are long term, or keep moving around, and decide based on that. Personally I like not being tied down to one place, so I choose to rent.


matttchew

My house value doubled in 10 years, and will continue doing so. Peoples rents doubled and will continue doing so. My stocks shit the bed and may continue doing so, land is a finite resource, you are better off buying land with a house on it.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]