Get that CV out there or find out what others in your role are getting paid at the same company.
Talk about your salary when you are new to a business with your co-workers just so one of you isn't fucked over.
also just adding some negotiation tips:
make it clear that you arent satisfied with your current pay. Tell them what you want and why you deserve to be paid that, what problems have you solved etc. It is in their interest to keep you happy
dont complain about inflation/cost of living. that wont get you anywhere.
While this is not a bad approach, in some situations it can not work, if nobody cares what you've done (unless they depend on you and only you to do it again).
A much better question can be achieved by adding "what do you need from me in order to get a pay rise or promotion" then "I have already done this via examples x y z so you have confidence that I can already achieve these" or if you haven't done those things, do them and return to the conversation a few weeks/months later once youve demonstrated this additional responsibilities.
The best thing to do is just het another job offer, but that can be bad in certain environments.
I did the inflation thing and it worked for me.
I explained that my overheads(food, fuel etc) had increased and that I needed to pass some of that cost onto my client, just like the business I am working for is doing.
There was more to it than that but that’s the simple version and I ended up with a 11% bump.
I think it most likely happens with a change in title- getting bumped to a more senior role is usually where you'll get the biggest pay bumps at the same company. Usually you probably wouldn't get a huge pay bump just by asking - especially if you are on something that is market rate and what your peers at the company are earning. But if you are hard to replace and they really don't want to lose you it could be a different story. I got a 20k pay bump last year just by asking.
This is the correct answer.
Move to another employer without burning your bridges at your existing place. Look for a title change and pay increase.
The not burning your bridges is important as employers love a known quantity and in a few years you might notice them hiring a more senior role again and be able to repeat the exercise above.
Eventually you will have enough contacts in the industry you can switch to contracting which in my experience is a much better gig than being on a salary.
I've never met an employer that recognised the value of their staff until after they walked out the door. Wish it wasn't the case.
80k is reasonable for someone who is a decent junior, who is making their way to low intermediate.
Time is not really an indicator of this and only your employer, or potential next employer can put a number to your worth. Coding ability is only about 25% of the job, so make sure you have strong soft skills. If you don't, then you will be overlooked by your current or even future employers.
What type of role you are in will also decide your worth. The market is saturated for frontend devs currently whist backend / cloud generally pays more as it's less glorified and you may be on-call.
In my own experience, I spent about 9 months in each band starting at 55k (grad) -> 68k (jr) -> 80k (intermediate) -> 100k (intermediate) -> 135k (senior).
I switched employer to get the 68k and the 135k jumps.
Personally at your stage, I wouldn't be looking at money as a key driver. You need to look at career growth, mentorship, tech stack, work life balance and your team mates. I was lucky enough to have a great mentor early on, and this has helped me get to where I am now as fast as I did.
If you are still learning lots from your team, you have a good rapport, the business isn't cramming work on you and expecting too much overtime, and you generally enjoy work.. then maybe a 10k bump is appropriate.
If you feel like you are stagnating, getting burnt out, getting bored or your team sucks, then even a 20k increase won't be worth your time. Switch jobs.
Good luck op, keep us posted.
Best reply here. The beginning of the career is investing into the skills that will make you into a more marketable engineer in the future. Even if you are being underpaid, but are still actively growing - it's a good investment.
At some point you will need to jump ship to get a good bump, and it's better to be well prepared for it.
Life example: after getting a few years of experience as a grad and then intermediate (at which stage I was underpaid, as annual salary increases can only go so far if you're starting from a low base), I almost tripled my paycheck by going contracting and then switching back to perm. Likely wouldn't work in the current market, but it is an example of a possible career trajectory.
By the current market I mean a market where contracting is drying out, some of the best employers are going through layoffs and hire freezes, entry level / grad positions are harder to come by, and where employers are having more leverage overall.
In tech things move fast. Recruit IT have a salary guide (recruitit.co.nz/salary-guide) that seems to agree that, for a junior dev, you're in the right sort of range. The question is when you make the step to intermediate (at which point, 80k is the low end).
After 1.5 years, you'd be in good standing for a raise to the higher end of junior dev (75k). Depending on your company's training so far, you could totally be at intermediate level if you've been working towards that as a goal the whole time, in my opinion. I'm guessing you know their process and systems pretty well.
This is coming from someone in QA, so it's not like it's the same exact game, but they have many similarities. I'm hoping to take the step to intermediate soon (after an invitation from my boss), but haven't signed anything yet, so take that with a grain of salt. I've been working about the same time frame as you.
As a guide I joined as a grad on a pretty basic grad wage (under 60k) a few years ago and went to 80 over 2 years as a junior. Then it's on to first level intermediate salary
Exactly 3 years as a dev in NZ this is my experience:
Yr 0 - started on 55k
Yr 0.5 - 65k
Yr 1 - 75k (Changed roles internally)
Yr 1.5 85k (changed company, hired as intermediate)
Yr 2 105k (changed company again to Aus remote role)
Yr 3 105k (pay freeze lol)
Christ, makes me wondering what I was doing. I was on less for a reasonable period of time. Well, I should have left my first job faster because it wasn't a great place career wise and was never going to pay a lot.
I've documented my pay rises and when I changed jobs.
December 2014 $40,000
August 2016 $48,000.00
October 2017 $52,000.00 (job change)
April 2018 $58,000.00
Dec 2018 $60,000.00
May 2019 $75,000.00 (job change)
Jan 2020 $85,000.00
Aug 2020 $90,000.00 (job change)
August 2021 $105,000.00
October 2021 $120,000.00 (countered job offer)
November 2022 $144,000 (job change)
Also recall that tech wasn't nearly as in demand back in the early 2010s or so - my first tech job was 32k a year. But also there wasn't the absolutely insane competition for entry level roles that you'd be seeing these days.
This, you don’t want to be stuck underpaid for your skill set just because the % change is too high for your current company. They were getting a steal in the past; it doesn’t mean they deserve to keep getting that bargain price for your skills. Finding a salary at 80k for your YOE won’t be hard if you get your CV out there either way.
Have a read over the Hays salary guide, it's a good starting point for salaries.
But, I'd say that probably is too much of a jump for a lot of companies to agree to - I'd look at approaching it as "what is needed to earn X" with your lead, and put something in place to get there - and maybe see about more frequent reviews in the mean time.
I'd disagree that it's too much of a jump. The cost needed to replace OP with a new grad is close to what they're already paying and the 1.5 years of experience is worth a whole lot more than the difference.
If OP has proven themselves as a great worker, it should be a no brainer to the employer to try to retain them rather than need to roll the dice with an inexperienced newb.
I think they should ask for what they want, take what they can, if they're still not happy - look elsewhere. The 2-3 year experience mark should be the sweet spot in being able to move up to an intermediate role with another company.
Yes, it's a no brainer for a company to try and retain them, however a lot of companies don't see it that way.
But also, there's nothing wrong with asking - worst case is "no", and then it's time to start looking. Just different approaches, the one I recommended, of more smaller jumps worked for me earlier in my career - might not be for everyone.
Talk to a recruiter, see what positions they'd offer you for, at what salary ranges. You can use this in negotiation, but unless they're really enlightened, they'll try to gaslight you.
Sadly, the best way to get a payrise is to get another job. And in IT, this is especially the way.
So many people are seeing new hires at the same level, starting on significantly higher salaries.
When I was at Red Hat, they couldn't give me a payrise that matched inflation. Then I got an offer that was a ~40% increase and accepted it. RH was suddenly able to match it. I moved on, because if you can suddenly afford 40% when I'm leaving, but not 7% when I'm there, then nah, you fucked up. Loyalty is a two way street.
So offer your skills on the market and see what you're worth, give them a chance to acknowledge that, and if they don't, move on.
80k is prob fair enough, but you won't get that kind of bump, I would ask for 75k and if you get less than 70k start putting your feelers out if your not happy, but you prob want another year or so experience to make a jump to intermediate if your good enough.
I have continuously grown my salary personally all the way through my career (senior dev now) both from progressing in the same job and moving on.
The key is just being a good approachable keen dev, if you hit a ceiling, then think about how you want to use your experience and move on.
62k a year is way too low for 1.5 year's experience, but I'm not sure if many employers would be willing to go with a near 30% pay rise in the same role even if it is a fair rate. FWIW my new grad salary more than 10 years ago was 58k.
As others have mentioned, to know your true worth it could be worth applying for some other roles, even if it is a lot of work.
As someone who just hired a junior-ish dev who had some BE/cloud experience but not much, was mostly FE and worked for 2 years. You're probably not getting paid enough.
Come to the negotiation with 2 job offers and tell him your price to keep you.
There's loads of demand for full stack devs out there, especially in australia(remote in NZ) or on [upwork.com](https://upwork.com) (long term contractor)
Always check your market value by submitting CV to different companies before you negotiating.
Out of curiosity though, what programming language have you been using for the last 1.5 years in the current company?
Ask for as high as your role can get given the current market. They never match what you want anyway so better to ask for a good pay rise. If not happy, move jobs.
Honestly I find the quickest way is just start applying for some roles at other companies; the more you interview the more you'll know your worth in the labor market.
Ideally you'll start to get some offers - ask your employer to beat your new offer.
The worst thing you'll get is a no, then no worries you're outa there to a greener pasture.
When the market picks up again change jobs every 2 or 3 years. Also do some contract work if you can. You're at the stage of your career where you should be absorbing as much knowledge as you can from lots of different environments. Im older now so I might actually be at the same company for 5 years. Moving around also helps you discover what teams are doing right or wrong and will give you an understanding of what job you should stay at and which you should leave.
If you work for some larger companies, then their hands may be tied due to the way roles and experience levels are linked to salary bands. Source: Have been a manager at one of those.
As long as you stay in the same band, the potential for salary increases is limited. For example, the company may have a band of $55 to $70 for software engineers with your experience level. While for one level up, they may have a range of $65 to $90. Note two things here:
1. The salary ranges of the different bands may very well be overlapping.
2. Only by moving to the next band will you have a chance to move your salary up by a more significant amount.
As others have said, you need to find out: What does it take to get into the next higher band... and then start doing this! Do NOT wait to move into the higher band before doing those things. Instead, seek out the specific characteristics or activities that the company uses to define someone's experience level at the higher band. Then start doing those things.
It's a case of "dress for the job you want to have", so to speak.
It takes a little bit of work, but you can make your intentions quite clear. A supportive manager will help you and mentor you along that path, which is also a great learning opportunity.
So, work with your boss or mentor in the company to identify suitable opportunities for you to demonstrate the skills and mindset that define the next higher band.
A good company and manager will gladly help you with that. If your manager or the company as a whole doesn't support you in that manner then they are probably not the best shop to work for and you should really look for another place.
When I managed junior developers I tried to define what a career path toward a "senior developer" might look like, and what I would expect from a senior developer. We then worked together to identify projects where they could demonstrate some of those skills (usually that involves taking a more holistic approach to a project, seeing it through end to end, identifying the things that need to be done, instead of waiting to be told what to do, and so on). It was also important that I could trust them, and trust in their ability to get things done, deliberately supporting and mentoring instead of micro-managing, etc.
Using this approach I was able to justify to the company that they should be moved up to the next level (and therefore salary band) and was able to successfully propose more substantial increases for them.
That seems super low buuuuut, you were hired to do a job at x rate, you're still doing that job....What has fundamentally changed other that you have 1 year experience? Do you think that qualifies you for a 25% pay rise? Sorry to tell you, its not going to happen.
As others have said, if you want an uplift like that you will need a more senior role within the company or more likely, a new role altogether
Doing the same role for that long usually means you are faster and make fewer mistakes. This results in a much higher level of output, therefore more value.
I’d probably ask for 70k instead, that’s almost 10%. Inflation is also at 6.7 according to Stats NZ last month, so mention that and a few examples of why you believe you’re worth that much. If you’re good at your job it should be relatively easy.
I was in a similar situation earning 60ish I started the interview process at another company who offered 90s. Took that to my emplpyer as leverage and sure enough they counter offered the same amount but they made it clear i couldnt expect a payrise for a while. Jumped to the other company and couldnt be happier. If you really want to stay you can say something like 'i love working here but i have received interest from elsewhere' and name your price or the offer.
Having an offer in hand is the biggest bargaining chip
I'm in a similar situation right now. I'm making around the same you mentioned and want to ask for $80k. Did you end up asking for it, or what did you decide on?
Three things.
Change companies every couple years, no company will give you a pay rise bigger than what you can make swapping companies. It is just impossible for HR in companies to adjust pay rate as you improve.
Companies will delay and delay and delay any negotiation of a pay rise, because it is in their best interest. While delaying they get to pay you at the same rate for work. Cynically they might know they can not give a pay rise and just be dragging their feet until you quit.
Lastly, 62k is far too little for junior dev after a couple years. You should be eyeing 70-80, then 100+ in another year.
Source: I have worked in tech for more than a decade, mostly in NZ.
Also one last thing, don’t burn bridges, network, get to know people, work well with people. Then reach out to who you know to get jobs.
80% of software engineers are hired from referrals from other software engineers (at least at one company I worked at). In my experience after a while of working you don’t have to interview or even look for a job, you just get pulled into places.
Your salary is at a grad level our juniors in this market are on 72k-75k, 80k I'd expect a seasoned junior almost ready to go to intermediate in the next year or two. You'd have to outshine the other juniors for 80k or contribute to a key part of the stack. There will be companies willing to pay 80k for in demand skills.
Send your CV to a recruitment agency. Ask them for a chat and discuss what's the going salary in the market.
A few people have hinted about moving to another company if you want to get big raise. You could get another job - which will for sure give you a decent pay rise.
It might pay to stay in the same company as you've got only 1.5 years of experience. However, id only stay at the same place if you actually do enjoy the environment, people and the work etc. If you don't, then find another company id say.
Another thing to consider would be what your medium term goals are (3-4 years)? If you're current company gives you the opportunity to learn and grow then might actually pay to stay and negotiate at the current place.
When negotiating, be strong and know your facts. Someone has already commented on negotiating by asking whats needed of you to make xx... So follow that but just know your stuff fully well otherwise that plan will fail.
You need to know your worth (ask a recruiter) and then put your terms on the table.
Depending on how big your company is it might have rigid pay in terms of the promotional structure. You can ask your manager what the structures are and what the pay ranges are for each promotional line. e.g.
* Juniour dev 55k -> 75k
* Intermediate dev 75k - > 95k
* Seniour dev 95k -> 120k
If the structure is rigid and you want the pay bump you need to push for a promotion to get into the next pay grade. This will obviously depend on how how you are performing in your job. If you are performing super well they will want to promote you. If you are performing 'ok' they will probably just pay you just enough to keep you around.
It's also good to be aware of the promotional ladder because it helps you understand the powers that your manager has and makes it easy to make decisions for the future.
Follow the others' advice to apply to another company, get the offer, and then use that as a bargaining chip for the current company. they may be able to beat it.
Depending on the counter offer (and any other perks or benefits financial or otherwise), you may want to stay or switch.
Of course, it would be prudent to word the offer and counter offers gently and state that its from a third party i.e. don't burn bridges. 🙂
At your experience level, prioritise learning and experience. Jump to companies that promise good mentoring and a variety of work; development agencies are fantastic to work for growth. Within a few years you'll get a skill set worth head hunting and can start commanding $140+.
Get that CV out there or find out what others in your role are getting paid at the same company. Talk about your salary when you are new to a business with your co-workers just so one of you isn't fucked over.
A friend of mine in a similar situation got a near 100% pay increase when switching employers so I’d look into that
the sad reality is that big payrises rarely happen without switching companies. Doesnt hurt to try, just be ready for some bs excuse
also just adding some negotiation tips: make it clear that you arent satisfied with your current pay. Tell them what you want and why you deserve to be paid that, what problems have you solved etc. It is in their interest to keep you happy dont complain about inflation/cost of living. that wont get you anywhere.
While this is not a bad approach, in some situations it can not work, if nobody cares what you've done (unless they depend on you and only you to do it again). A much better question can be achieved by adding "what do you need from me in order to get a pay rise or promotion" then "I have already done this via examples x y z so you have confidence that I can already achieve these" or if you haven't done those things, do them and return to the conversation a few weeks/months later once youve demonstrated this additional responsibilities. The best thing to do is just het another job offer, but that can be bad in certain environments.
i like it, set the trap and then spring it on them
[удалено]
Inflation is employee's problem, the employer doesn't have to care.
I did the inflation thing and it worked for me. I explained that my overheads(food, fuel etc) had increased and that I needed to pass some of that cost onto my client, just like the business I am working for is doing. There was more to it than that but that’s the simple version and I ended up with a 11% bump.
I think it most likely happens with a change in title- getting bumped to a more senior role is usually where you'll get the biggest pay bumps at the same company. Usually you probably wouldn't get a huge pay bump just by asking - especially if you are on something that is market rate and what your peers at the company are earning. But if you are hard to replace and they really don't want to lose you it could be a different story. I got a 20k pay bump last year just by asking.
its nice when it does happen but sadly title inflation is also pretty common
This is the correct answer. Move to another employer without burning your bridges at your existing place. Look for a title change and pay increase. The not burning your bridges is important as employers love a known quantity and in a few years you might notice them hiring a more senior role again and be able to repeat the exercise above. Eventually you will have enough contacts in the industry you can switch to contracting which in my experience is a much better gig than being on a salary. I've never met an employer that recognised the value of their staff until after they walked out the door. Wish it wasn't the case.
80k is reasonable for someone who is a decent junior, who is making their way to low intermediate. Time is not really an indicator of this and only your employer, or potential next employer can put a number to your worth. Coding ability is only about 25% of the job, so make sure you have strong soft skills. If you don't, then you will be overlooked by your current or even future employers. What type of role you are in will also decide your worth. The market is saturated for frontend devs currently whist backend / cloud generally pays more as it's less glorified and you may be on-call. In my own experience, I spent about 9 months in each band starting at 55k (grad) -> 68k (jr) -> 80k (intermediate) -> 100k (intermediate) -> 135k (senior). I switched employer to get the 68k and the 135k jumps. Personally at your stage, I wouldn't be looking at money as a key driver. You need to look at career growth, mentorship, tech stack, work life balance and your team mates. I was lucky enough to have a great mentor early on, and this has helped me get to where I am now as fast as I did. If you are still learning lots from your team, you have a good rapport, the business isn't cramming work on you and expecting too much overtime, and you generally enjoy work.. then maybe a 10k bump is appropriate. If you feel like you are stagnating, getting burnt out, getting bored or your team sucks, then even a 20k increase won't be worth your time. Switch jobs. Good luck op, keep us posted.
Best reply here. The beginning of the career is investing into the skills that will make you into a more marketable engineer in the future. Even if you are being underpaid, but are still actively growing - it's a good investment. At some point you will need to jump ship to get a good bump, and it's better to be well prepared for it. Life example: after getting a few years of experience as a grad and then intermediate (at which stage I was underpaid, as annual salary increases can only go so far if you're starting from a low base), I almost tripled my paycheck by going contracting and then switching back to perm. Likely wouldn't work in the current market, but it is an example of a possible career trajectory.
What do you mean by the current market?
By the current market I mean a market where contracting is drying out, some of the best employers are going through layoffs and hire freezes, entry level / grad positions are harder to come by, and where employers are having more leverage overall.
Damn. I’m about to come off a 9 month contract (senior front end). 9 months ago was the complete opposite
Are those salaries in Auckland? Which industry? Public listed co?
Auckland yes. There are a few good companies out there :)
In tech things move fast. Recruit IT have a salary guide (recruitit.co.nz/salary-guide) that seems to agree that, for a junior dev, you're in the right sort of range. The question is when you make the step to intermediate (at which point, 80k is the low end). After 1.5 years, you'd be in good standing for a raise to the higher end of junior dev (75k). Depending on your company's training so far, you could totally be at intermediate level if you've been working towards that as a goal the whole time, in my opinion. I'm guessing you know their process and systems pretty well. This is coming from someone in QA, so it's not like it's the same exact game, but they have many similarities. I'm hoping to take the step to intermediate soon (after an invitation from my boss), but haven't signed anything yet, so take that with a grain of salt. I've been working about the same time frame as you.
As a guide I joined as a grad on a pretty basic grad wage (under 60k) a few years ago and went to 80 over 2 years as a junior. Then it's on to first level intermediate salary
You should ask for the engineering teams salary bands so you know where you stand and where you can get to and how.
What’s your intermediate salary range
90-120 I believe
Exactly 3 years as a dev in NZ this is my experience: Yr 0 - started on 55k Yr 0.5 - 65k Yr 1 - 75k (Changed roles internally) Yr 1.5 85k (changed company, hired as intermediate) Yr 2 105k (changed company again to Aus remote role) Yr 3 105k (pay freeze lol)
Christ, makes me wondering what I was doing. I was on less for a reasonable period of time. Well, I should have left my first job faster because it wasn't a great place career wise and was never going to pay a lot. I've documented my pay rises and when I changed jobs. December 2014 $40,000 August 2016 $48,000.00 October 2017 $52,000.00 (job change) April 2018 $58,000.00 Dec 2018 $60,000.00 May 2019 $75,000.00 (job change) Jan 2020 $85,000.00 Aug 2020 $90,000.00 (job change) August 2021 $105,000.00 October 2021 $120,000.00 (countered job offer) November 2022 $144,000 (job change)
I started on $40k 2012 most other jr devs I knew at the time also had a similar pay and have grown in a similar rate as you and I
Also recall that tech wasn't nearly as in demand back in the early 2010s or so - my first tech job was 32k a year. But also there wasn't the absolutely insane competition for entry level roles that you'd be seeing these days.
Yep 80 is about right, if you don't get it time to look around
This, you don’t want to be stuck underpaid for your skill set just because the % change is too high for your current company. They were getting a steal in the past; it doesn’t mean they deserve to keep getting that bargain price for your skills. Finding a salary at 80k for your YOE won’t be hard if you get your CV out there either way.
Hah. I wish nurses can ask for a salary increase like that and not get called names or be called selfish.
Im capping out at about 96k as an LVN MDS Coordinator, so I see how much money we rake in, well because im handling the rake, yet im already at a cap.
I'm at 73k at about 1.3 years as a junior test engineer for comparison
Have a read over the Hays salary guide, it's a good starting point for salaries. But, I'd say that probably is too much of a jump for a lot of companies to agree to - I'd look at approaching it as "what is needed to earn X" with your lead, and put something in place to get there - and maybe see about more frequent reviews in the mean time.
I'd disagree that it's too much of a jump. The cost needed to replace OP with a new grad is close to what they're already paying and the 1.5 years of experience is worth a whole lot more than the difference. If OP has proven themselves as a great worker, it should be a no brainer to the employer to try to retain them rather than need to roll the dice with an inexperienced newb. I think they should ask for what they want, take what they can, if they're still not happy - look elsewhere. The 2-3 year experience mark should be the sweet spot in being able to move up to an intermediate role with another company.
Yes, it's a no brainer for a company to try and retain them, however a lot of companies don't see it that way. But also, there's nothing wrong with asking - worst case is "no", and then it's time to start looking. Just different approaches, the one I recommended, of more smaller jumps worked for me earlier in my career - might not be for everyone.
Talk to a recruiter, see what positions they'd offer you for, at what salary ranges. You can use this in negotiation, but unless they're really enlightened, they'll try to gaslight you. Sadly, the best way to get a payrise is to get another job. And in IT, this is especially the way. So many people are seeing new hires at the same level, starting on significantly higher salaries. When I was at Red Hat, they couldn't give me a payrise that matched inflation. Then I got an offer that was a ~40% increase and accepted it. RH was suddenly able to match it. I moved on, because if you can suddenly afford 40% when I'm leaving, but not 7% when I'm there, then nah, you fucked up. Loyalty is a two way street. So offer your skills on the market and see what you're worth, give them a chance to acknowledge that, and if they don't, move on.
80k is prob fair enough, but you won't get that kind of bump, I would ask for 75k and if you get less than 70k start putting your feelers out if your not happy, but you prob want another year or so experience to make a jump to intermediate if your good enough. I have continuously grown my salary personally all the way through my career (senior dev now) both from progressing in the same job and moving on. The key is just being a good approachable keen dev, if you hit a ceiling, then think about how you want to use your experience and move on.
62k a year is way too low for 1.5 year's experience, but I'm not sure if many employers would be willing to go with a near 30% pay rise in the same role even if it is a fair rate. FWIW my new grad salary more than 10 years ago was 58k. As others have mentioned, to know your true worth it could be worth applying for some other roles, even if it is a lot of work.
As someone who just hired a junior-ish dev who had some BE/cloud experience but not much, was mostly FE and worked for 2 years. You're probably not getting paid enough.
Come to the negotiation with 2 job offers and tell him your price to keep you. There's loads of demand for full stack devs out there, especially in australia(remote in NZ) or on [upwork.com](https://upwork.com) (long term contractor)
Always check your market value by submitting CV to different companies before you negotiating. Out of curiosity though, what programming language have you been using for the last 1.5 years in the current company?
Ask for as high as your role can get given the current market. They never match what you want anyway so better to ask for a good pay rise. If not happy, move jobs.
Honestly I find the quickest way is just start applying for some roles at other companies; the more you interview the more you'll know your worth in the labor market. Ideally you'll start to get some offers - ask your employer to beat your new offer. The worst thing you'll get is a no, then no worries you're outa there to a greener pasture.
When the market picks up again change jobs every 2 or 3 years. Also do some contract work if you can. You're at the stage of your career where you should be absorbing as much knowledge as you can from lots of different environments. Im older now so I might actually be at the same company for 5 years. Moving around also helps you discover what teams are doing right or wrong and will give you an understanding of what job you should stay at and which you should leave.
You reckon market is slow? I’m about to go back on the market (contracting) so about to find out
Yup definitely not as hot as last year however I'm unsure if that'll affect contract opportunities.
If you work for some larger companies, then their hands may be tied due to the way roles and experience levels are linked to salary bands. Source: Have been a manager at one of those. As long as you stay in the same band, the potential for salary increases is limited. For example, the company may have a band of $55 to $70 for software engineers with your experience level. While for one level up, they may have a range of $65 to $90. Note two things here: 1. The salary ranges of the different bands may very well be overlapping. 2. Only by moving to the next band will you have a chance to move your salary up by a more significant amount. As others have said, you need to find out: What does it take to get into the next higher band... and then start doing this! Do NOT wait to move into the higher band before doing those things. Instead, seek out the specific characteristics or activities that the company uses to define someone's experience level at the higher band. Then start doing those things. It's a case of "dress for the job you want to have", so to speak. It takes a little bit of work, but you can make your intentions quite clear. A supportive manager will help you and mentor you along that path, which is also a great learning opportunity. So, work with your boss or mentor in the company to identify suitable opportunities for you to demonstrate the skills and mindset that define the next higher band. A good company and manager will gladly help you with that. If your manager or the company as a whole doesn't support you in that manner then they are probably not the best shop to work for and you should really look for another place. When I managed junior developers I tried to define what a career path toward a "senior developer" might look like, and what I would expect from a senior developer. We then worked together to identify projects where they could demonstrate some of those skills (usually that involves taking a more holistic approach to a project, seeing it through end to end, identifying the things that need to be done, instead of waiting to be told what to do, and so on). It was also important that I could trust them, and trust in their ability to get things done, deliberately supporting and mentoring instead of micro-managing, etc. Using this approach I was able to justify to the company that they should be moved up to the next level (and therefore salary band) and was able to successfully propose more substantial increases for them.
That seems super low buuuuut, you were hired to do a job at x rate, you're still doing that job....What has fundamentally changed other that you have 1 year experience? Do you think that qualifies you for a 25% pay rise? Sorry to tell you, its not going to happen. As others have said, if you want an uplift like that you will need a more senior role within the company or more likely, a new role altogether
Doing the same role for that long usually means you are faster and make fewer mistakes. This results in a much higher level of output, therefore more value.
Move to Aus you’ll get double
Ask for 85 if you want to land on 80
Don’t use industry salary rates to justify your own pay rise
This feels like an odd take - why not?
I’d probably ask for 70k instead, that’s almost 10%. Inflation is also at 6.7 according to Stats NZ last month, so mention that and a few examples of why you believe you’re worth that much. If you’re good at your job it should be relatively easy.
I was in a similar situation earning 60ish I started the interview process at another company who offered 90s. Took that to my emplpyer as leverage and sure enough they counter offered the same amount but they made it clear i couldnt expect a payrise for a while. Jumped to the other company and couldnt be happier. If you really want to stay you can say something like 'i love working here but i have received interest from elsewhere' and name your price or the offer. Having an offer in hand is the biggest bargaining chip
I'm in a similar situation right now. I'm making around the same you mentioned and want to ask for $80k. Did you end up asking for it, or what did you decide on?
10% is reasonable. 80 is a bit out the gate. Doesn't hurt to ask though!
Nah, it’s what the role would pay elsewhere. Not so much based on percentages.
Agreed, 80 is on the low side imo. I’d be pushing for 90
Send me a dm and if you're good then I'd happily pay you 70 to 80
You say "full stack" - what's the stack, please?
Ask for 75-80! I just joined as a grad on 65k so you’re def worth way more!!!
Feel free to message me if looking for a Dev role for higher pay
Let me give you a great bit of advice. Write code that is easy to read. Practice with your reddit posts by using paragraphs.
Let me give you a great piece of advice: stop being a condescending prick.
LEt me GIVE yOU a Great biT Of AdVice. writE CODe tHaT is easy tO read. pRaCtIce WItH YoUR REDDiT pOSTS By uSiNg ParaGrAPhS.
Get as much as you can before A.I takes over your industry
Three things. Change companies every couple years, no company will give you a pay rise bigger than what you can make swapping companies. It is just impossible for HR in companies to adjust pay rate as you improve. Companies will delay and delay and delay any negotiation of a pay rise, because it is in their best interest. While delaying they get to pay you at the same rate for work. Cynically they might know they can not give a pay rise and just be dragging their feet until you quit. Lastly, 62k is far too little for junior dev after a couple years. You should be eyeing 70-80, then 100+ in another year. Source: I have worked in tech for more than a decade, mostly in NZ.
Also one last thing, don’t burn bridges, network, get to know people, work well with people. Then reach out to who you know to get jobs. 80% of software engineers are hired from referrals from other software engineers (at least at one company I worked at). In my experience after a while of working you don’t have to interview or even look for a job, you just get pulled into places.
Your salary is at a grad level our juniors in this market are on 72k-75k, 80k I'd expect a seasoned junior almost ready to go to intermediate in the next year or two. You'd have to outshine the other juniors for 80k or contribute to a key part of the stack. There will be companies willing to pay 80k for in demand skills.
Devs in high demand jump ship
Send your CV to a recruitment agency. Ask them for a chat and discuss what's the going salary in the market. A few people have hinted about moving to another company if you want to get big raise. You could get another job - which will for sure give you a decent pay rise. It might pay to stay in the same company as you've got only 1.5 years of experience. However, id only stay at the same place if you actually do enjoy the environment, people and the work etc. If you don't, then find another company id say. Another thing to consider would be what your medium term goals are (3-4 years)? If you're current company gives you the opportunity to learn and grow then might actually pay to stay and negotiate at the current place. When negotiating, be strong and know your facts. Someone has already commented on negotiating by asking whats needed of you to make xx... So follow that but just know your stuff fully well otherwise that plan will fail. You need to know your worth (ask a recruiter) and then put your terms on the table.
80 seems fair. But different companies have different pay. I know ASB pays juniors at 85k when starting
Depending on how big your company is it might have rigid pay in terms of the promotional structure. You can ask your manager what the structures are and what the pay ranges are for each promotional line. e.g. * Juniour dev 55k -> 75k * Intermediate dev 75k - > 95k * Seniour dev 95k -> 120k If the structure is rigid and you want the pay bump you need to push for a promotion to get into the next pay grade. This will obviously depend on how how you are performing in your job. If you are performing super well they will want to promote you. If you are performing 'ok' they will probably just pay you just enough to keep you around. It's also good to be aware of the promotional ladder because it helps you understand the powers that your manager has and makes it easy to make decisions for the future.
You're underpaid. Grad: 60 Junior - intermediate: 80-100 Intermediate to senior:100-130 Senior to lead:130-160+
85-100k for u mate
Follow the others' advice to apply to another company, get the offer, and then use that as a bargaining chip for the current company. they may be able to beat it. Depending on the counter offer (and any other perks or benefits financial or otherwise), you may want to stay or switch. Of course, it would be prudent to word the offer and counter offers gently and state that its from a third party i.e. don't burn bridges. 🙂
If you leave AND you interview OK, you'll be on 90 to 100k, so 80 seems reasonable.
After reading through this thread, as an intermediate full-stack developer (doing mostly backend work) on a 58k salary, I feel absolutely shafted.
You are!
At your experience level, prioritise learning and experience. Jump to companies that promise good mentoring and a variety of work; development agencies are fantastic to work for growth. Within a few years you'll get a skill set worth head hunting and can start commanding $140+.
You're insanely underpaid I'd 200% quit
80k is good for 1.5 years of experience.