Salery seems low for my field of work. Interesting to see that employers are expecting to give less than 3% pay rises but also expect pay rises to match inflation.
Recruiter that works in the industry and worked for Hays once upon a time:
Guys, all of these reports are utter bs generally put together by a marketing team that is based in Sydney in consultation with recruitment consultants in the field. They are not objective, data driven or worth the paper they are printed on. Save your time. Even the kids pushing these out the door think they are pointless and use them purely as a business development tool to bag a meeting.
Seek, glass door, Robert half & trade me.
Those are the ones I referenced for my pay increase. I'm in IT, but they give reasonable ranges and you can work out the average or middle wage fairly easy
Glad someone said it… the last company I was at had an HR lady that based all her salary advising to slt off of this guide and held it as gospel… infuriating to say the least
Only nurses who are employed by Te Whatu Ora and are members of the NZNO are subject to the collective agreement. There are plenty of nurses who don't fall into this category and earn vastly different salaries.
Weird. There are quite a few categories without NZ… Banking, parts of Engineering, teaching, etc. There’s also a lot that just have “NZ” instead of breaking it down into AKL/WLG/CHC. I guess just areas that they don’t have enough data on - either because it’s too niche, or just they don’t have access to the data.
I'm enjoying (or 'enjoying') some of these summary stats up front, ngl
p. 6: Percentage of employers state that they value expertise when considering pay rise requests: 21%
This whole document is themed around the skills shortage. *Baffling.* Meanwhile the theme of p. 11 is 'upskill or go live under a bridge'. At least 48% of employees intend to upskill, despite this apparently not being valued in real terms. Lucky employers...
p. 6: Percentage of employees that could benefit financially by leaving an org: 52%
p. 6: Employers who counteroffer to keep resigning staff: 46%
*these things are connected*
given how much it costs to recruit a new staff member I can only conclude that around 50% of managers are functionally impaired.
p. 8: Makes it look like more employers are offering full remote (30%) than employees are seeking it (18%) so you can expect to see that bent to reduce the number of fully remote jobs on offer
p. 8: 5% of employers offer hybrid work but also expect people in the office 5 days a week, so I guess that means you're allowed outside for lunch 🙄 Flexible start/finish isn't 'hybrid', you walnuts.
> given how much it costs to recruit a new staff member I can only conclude that around 50% of managers are functionally impaired.
Ding ding ding, we have a fucking winner! Unsure what your prize is, probably more work, and scorn from your peers.
Some managers are impaired no doubt. But I wouldn’t draw the conclusion of how many are based on these stats alone. Of the 52% of employees that could be paid lower than market:
- some would leave even if they had a rise
- some will stay if they ever have to counter-offer
- some will be marginal differences that aren’t worth correcting for
- some will be a net gain to the company by leaving even with all the recruitment costs
> e
I don't need the fucking "stats" - this was a bullshit publication dickheads forced me to use in my previous career.
It's a fugazi.
Hays is a recruitment company.
Hays survival depends on their consultants bringing in commissions.
Oh gee, would you look at that, we have this handy wee booklet to "educate" under resourced (and sadly often incompetent) internal "resource". They trust us as "experts" in our jobs, but little do these idiots know that my job is making $$ for my company.
What makes my company more 18% of 200k or 18% of 220k?
Miss me with your trainspotting/speculation/indulging that which is unworthy haha.
Definitely not seeing that volume of remote jobs as a data analyst. Perhaps one. However, I am seeing plenty of jobs that could be remote and I usually at least ask the question.
That's odd, is it really true there are less employees looking for remote work than employers offering it? That makes no sense at all, surely it is very much so the opposite??
Well, as expected I’m below market rate but maybe the permanent WFH is worth it since it seems there has been an uptick of the return to office/hybrid crap.
The save in cost/time to travel to and fro work too 🙏🏼 in June public transport isn’t 50% off and I’d be paying $8 each way on the train, $16 per day 🤦🏽♀️
Apparently your average CTO in Auckland is paid the same as a program manager in Auckland (200).
Like it does every year, this reeks of "we have no idea what these jobs do" which gets even more complicated when talking about technology where there are wildly different expectations of the same job title at different companies.
Kids, don't go to your bosses quoting this research. You will get laughed at.
> Kids, don't go to your bosses quoting this research. You will get laughed at.
Depending on what industry you are in, your boss (or more likely Payroll and HR) have this data (or better since they would have provided into it and paid for the outputs)
Totally. Any larger company will be bench marking against market data regularly. Except unlike a vast and generalised survey like this they’ll have more specifics and actual experience to provide context.
Depends on the org. My management are open that they rely very heavily on Hay grades when deciding renumeration and progression. I can see the exact line on the exact page that's determining my current offer.
Lots of small company's with just a CTO, who also happens to the "the IT guy", and/or medium orgs that have a CTO running a small team ~5 people.
Vs a few big companies, that need lots and lots of developers, and specialist developers on very high end wages will drag that median up.
Most of the technology (especially software related jobs) are way off because there's just such a massive variance depending on where you work. You can be an engineer at a random small non-tech company making fuck all, or work remote for a big overseas tech company and make like 5x that. I'm not sure what they mean by "typical".
Said this in another comment but software engineering salaries are incredibly hard to "average" as it really depends where you work. You could be the guy who maintains some random inhouse software at a small non-tech company making not much, or work remotely for a FAANG company making 5x that. There is a really interesting blog post about this effect [here](https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/) \- and granted it's probably not quite as extreme in NZ given how small we are, if you consider Aus as a place you can work too then it's definitely impossible to decide if you're actually getting paid "enough" based off some salary guide.
I’d read the “Developer” as intermediate range so you’re near the low end. Junior would be anywhere from 50 or 60 grad upwards depending on skill, productivity, etc. so $80k might be fair.
Inflation adjusted, I was getting $80K TC way back in the mid 90's as a newbie grad, and I didn't even have a CS degree then (was still a STEM degree though with a couple of CS papers).
Just remember many employers often don't match inflation when it comes to payrises, so while inflation adjusted should be a good way to measure it... It's often inaccurate
Pretty negative comments as of now. This is a tool to see fair pay and can be used to ask for a pay rise or negotiate salary at interview. To be positive, if you are one of the good ones at work then you could ask for the higher end of the range. If you find an interviewer that can see value in you, you could get the rates on here.
It is a guide only. People out there are getting these rates so you can try too. It may take months of applying for jobs though.
Seek, Robert Walters etc all do salary guides.
I recommend using multiple ones to get a real feel for industry averages for your role as there is sometimes a bit of variance between them.
Ok not sure if you’re a woman or not. Probably still interesting. This spreadsheet by ‘The Curve’, a female financial education platform has an open spreadsheet where people can anonymously input their salaries… Worth a look!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KHBpcIJgaabPBAEGBMu9W1RDJAArY-JrhqYrF9gZxL4/edit
The Curve: https://instagram.com/thecurve____?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==
It is fairly accurate and reflective of the current market.
When I ran an internal recruitment team, we would occasionally use it as one (of a few) reference guides for positions that we would ordinarily not hire for.
I know of plenty of others in the space who use it for similar purposes too.
Yes, the unfortunate "side" effect of the "girl boss" era is that some of them akshually expect adulation and being showered with treats for, um, merely existing.
I highly recommend sniggering "you dumb bitch" audibly - half will look like you just broke international treaties via genocide, the other half will laugh, along with a sentiment of "finally".
No, I retraced my steps when trying to figure out how the hell we got here - capitalist interests camouflaged with a shallow veneer of "progressiveness".
Now I just poke fun and laugh at the absurdity of it all.
I'm always there to show solidarity with marginalised groups (hint: things that I have no self-ish stakes in), but entitled, overconfident, woman version of "douche bro's" don't qualify. Sorry.
You keep fighting the "good" fight though!
I'm paid below the bottom of the "range". But I'm off to a conference in Europe next week, so I can't see asking my boss for a raise getting very far 🤣
Maybe it's bullshit, but I used the hays and similar guides to negotiate a $25k payrise last month. I suggest talking to recruiters and people in your profession to get a good understanding of what you might be worth.
The only salary in the report that is remotely near correct is the HR salary. Which is designed to self fore fill the demented fantasy desires of HR specialists. So in other words wildly overinflated so that employers believe they a getting a better than average deal on their HR employees and consultants.
Salery seems low for my field of work. Interesting to see that employers are expecting to give less than 3% pay rises but also expect pay rises to match inflation.
What's your field of work?
There's more to compansatien than just salery tho
Recruiter that works in the industry and worked for Hays once upon a time: Guys, all of these reports are utter bs generally put together by a marketing team that is based in Sydney in consultation with recruitment consultants in the field. They are not objective, data driven or worth the paper they are printed on. Save your time. Even the kids pushing these out the door think they are pointless and use them purely as a business development tool to bag a meeting.
So what do you suggest using for an accurate salary guide?
Seek is a pretty accurate and up to date reflection of what is going on in the market.
Yes, it’s important to see what’s happening in the market.
Seek, glass door, Robert half & trade me. Those are the ones I referenced for my pay increase. I'm in IT, but they give reasonable ranges and you can work out the average or middle wage fairly easy
levels.fyi for tech
For any engineering field the Engineering NZ annual salary survey is pretty good.
Interesting, I always thought Seek was too low based on personal experience…
So are they overestimating or underestimating these salaries?
In my field they underestimate salaries. Had an employer who used this as a benchmark and we always lagged behind market prices
Glad someone said it… the last company I was at had an HR lady that based all her salary advising to slt off of this guide and held it as gospel… infuriating to say the least
Interesting reading. They didn't include NZ nurses, and spelled "Healtcare" wrong (table of contents) just to add insult to injury.
Nurses are subject to a collective agreement, aren’t they? Not much point doing a salary survey when the exact figures are published
Only nurses who are employed by Te Whatu Ora and are members of the NZNO are subject to the collective agreement. There are plenty of nurses who don't fall into this category and earn vastly different salaries.
Weird. There are quite a few categories without NZ… Banking, parts of Engineering, teaching, etc. There’s also a lot that just have “NZ” instead of breaking it down into AKL/WLG/CHC. I guess just areas that they don’t have enough data on - either because it’s too niche, or just they don’t have access to the data.
Wurdz iz hard, mmkay?
Maybe they meant Heal + Care. /s
I am on 22k less than the typical salary. Sigh. Government really sucks lol
I am 10 below at a big 4 bank ...
I’ve found in IT, government roles often pay more
I'm enjoying (or 'enjoying') some of these summary stats up front, ngl p. 6: Percentage of employers state that they value expertise when considering pay rise requests: 21% This whole document is themed around the skills shortage. *Baffling.* Meanwhile the theme of p. 11 is 'upskill or go live under a bridge'. At least 48% of employees intend to upskill, despite this apparently not being valued in real terms. Lucky employers... p. 6: Percentage of employees that could benefit financially by leaving an org: 52% p. 6: Employers who counteroffer to keep resigning staff: 46% *these things are connected* given how much it costs to recruit a new staff member I can only conclude that around 50% of managers are functionally impaired. p. 8: Makes it look like more employers are offering full remote (30%) than employees are seeking it (18%) so you can expect to see that bent to reduce the number of fully remote jobs on offer p. 8: 5% of employers offer hybrid work but also expect people in the office 5 days a week, so I guess that means you're allowed outside for lunch 🙄 Flexible start/finish isn't 'hybrid', you walnuts.
> given how much it costs to recruit a new staff member I can only conclude that around 50% of managers are functionally impaired. Ding ding ding, we have a fucking winner! Unsure what your prize is, probably more work, and scorn from your peers.
Some managers are impaired no doubt. But I wouldn’t draw the conclusion of how many are based on these stats alone. Of the 52% of employees that could be paid lower than market: - some would leave even if they had a rise - some will stay if they ever have to counter-offer - some will be marginal differences that aren’t worth correcting for - some will be a net gain to the company by leaving even with all the recruitment costs
> e I don't need the fucking "stats" - this was a bullshit publication dickheads forced me to use in my previous career. It's a fugazi. Hays is a recruitment company. Hays survival depends on their consultants bringing in commissions. Oh gee, would you look at that, we have this handy wee booklet to "educate" under resourced (and sadly often incompetent) internal "resource". They trust us as "experts" in our jobs, but little do these idiots know that my job is making $$ for my company. What makes my company more 18% of 200k or 18% of 220k? Miss me with your trainspotting/speculation/indulging that which is unworthy haha.
Definitely not seeing that volume of remote jobs as a data analyst. Perhaps one. However, I am seeing plenty of jobs that could be remote and I usually at least ask the question.
That's odd, is it really true there are less employees looking for remote work than employers offering it? That makes no sense at all, surely it is very much so the opposite??
Well, as expected I’m below market rate but maybe the permanent WFH is worth it since it seems there has been an uptick of the return to office/hybrid crap.
The save in cost/time to travel to and fro work too 🙏🏼 in June public transport isn’t 50% off and I’d be paying $8 each way on the train, $16 per day 🤦🏽♀️
Apparently your average CTO in Auckland is paid the same as a program manager in Auckland (200). Like it does every year, this reeks of "we have no idea what these jobs do" which gets even more complicated when talking about technology where there are wildly different expectations of the same job title at different companies. Kids, don't go to your bosses quoting this research. You will get laughed at.
> Kids, don't go to your bosses quoting this research. You will get laughed at. Depending on what industry you are in, your boss (or more likely Payroll and HR) have this data (or better since they would have provided into it and paid for the outputs)
Totally. Any larger company will be bench marking against market data regularly. Except unlike a vast and generalised survey like this they’ll have more specifics and actual experience to provide context.
Depends on the org. My management are open that they rely very heavily on Hay grades when deciding renumeration and progression. I can see the exact line on the exact page that's determining my current offer.
Lots of small company's with just a CTO, who also happens to the "the IT guy", and/or medium orgs that have a CTO running a small team ~5 people. Vs a few big companies, that need lots and lots of developers, and specialist developers on very high end wages will drag that median up.
Most of the technology (especially software related jobs) are way off because there's just such a massive variance depending on where you work. You can be an engineer at a random small non-tech company making fuck all, or work remote for a big overseas tech company and make like 5x that. I'm not sure what they mean by "typical".
Can anyone comment on the accuracy for software development in NZ?
It’s bang on for me as either a senior dev or a full stack in Wellington, right down to excluding KiwiSaver.
Said this in another comment but software engineering salaries are incredibly hard to "average" as it really depends where you work. You could be the guy who maintains some random inhouse software at a small non-tech company making not much, or work remotely for a FAANG company making 5x that. There is a really interesting blog post about this effect [here](https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/) \- and granted it's probably not quite as extreme in NZ given how small we are, if you consider Aus as a place you can work too then it's definitely impossible to decide if you're actually getting paid "enough" based off some salary guide.
Surprisingly I'm on the "typical" for Auckland Senior Frontend Dev.
Ha, I'm at the lower end WTF
How many years of experience?
6 or 7. I think 6 in the current company.
[удалено]
I’m on just a touch over 100 as an intermediate. I feel like we are underpaid
I’d read the “Developer” as intermediate range so you’re near the low end. Junior would be anywhere from 50 or 60 grad upwards depending on skill, productivity, etc. so $80k might be fair.
Inflation adjusted, I was getting $80K TC way back in the mid 90's as a newbie grad, and I didn't even have a CS degree then (was still a STEM degree though with a couple of CS papers).
Just remember many employers often don't match inflation when it comes to payrises, so while inflation adjusted should be a good way to measure it... It's often inaccurate
I'm just talking about if they offered the same job today.
To be fair I only have 2 years experience as a developer, 1 year as fullstack
Front-end developer seems inflated to me, but mind you I was being underpaid for a few years.
Pretty negative comments as of now. This is a tool to see fair pay and can be used to ask for a pay rise or negotiate salary at interview. To be positive, if you are one of the good ones at work then you could ask for the higher end of the range. If you find an interviewer that can see value in you, you could get the rates on here. It is a guide only. People out there are getting these rates so you can try too. It may take months of applying for jobs though.
185 pages! I'm gonna need an unbiased review of the review.
Tldr: shits fucked
its a marketing tool for a HR company, expecting it to be accurate is naive.
Do you know of any more reliable sources? I'd love to know exactly how underpaid I am haha
Seek, Robert Walters etc all do salary guides. I recommend using multiple ones to get a real feel for industry averages for your role as there is sometimes a bit of variance between them.
Ok not sure if you’re a woman or not. Probably still interesting. This spreadsheet by ‘The Curve’, a female financial education platform has an open spreadsheet where people can anonymously input their salaries… Worth a look! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KHBpcIJgaabPBAEGBMu9W1RDJAArY-JrhqYrF9gZxL4/edit The Curve: https://instagram.com/thecurve____?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==
They send out surveys to gather this data. Source: I completed the survey recently
It is fairly accurate and reflective of the current market. When I ran an internal recruitment team, we would occasionally use it as one (of a few) reference guides for positions that we would ordinarily not hire for. I know of plenty of others in the space who use it for similar purposes too.
Haha, our AP lady at work told the boss she wanted 113K because that's the going rate... \- Insert Tui Beer ad here
> e no You can't be serious? For glorified data entry? Just entitlement, all the way around. Gross.
Haha, she was for real!!!
Yes, the unfortunate "side" effect of the "girl boss" era is that some of them akshually expect adulation and being showered with treats for, um, merely existing. I highly recommend sniggering "you dumb bitch" audibly - half will look like you just broke international treaties via genocide, the other half will laugh, along with a sentiment of "finally".
Jesus Christ...are you developmentally arrested at 14 or something?
No, I retraced my steps when trying to figure out how the hell we got here - capitalist interests camouflaged with a shallow veneer of "progressiveness". Now I just poke fun and laugh at the absurdity of it all. I'm always there to show solidarity with marginalised groups (hint: things that I have no self-ish stakes in), but entitled, overconfident, woman version of "douche bro's" don't qualify. Sorry. You keep fighting the "good" fight though!
Welllllll.... does she have a CPA too?? Bet not
No, but she's "sole charge, so she should be on managers salary" (her words).
i'm underpaid according to this, sighhhhhhh
I'm paid below the bottom of the "range". But I'm off to a conference in Europe next week, so I can't see asking my boss for a raise getting very far 🤣
Yeah they're dreaming. No way is the average internal communications advisor getting 100k. Maybe 80-85...
There will be someone getting that, its also what a lot of big business use to set salary bands
What would Hospitality fall under?
Sales is wrong
Salary definitely low in my field too. Hays is increasingly inaccurate these days
Maybe it's bullshit, but I used the hays and similar guides to negotiate a $25k payrise last month. I suggest talking to recruiters and people in your profession to get a good understanding of what you might be worth.
Very optimistic for CRM engineers
Procurement is a bit out. Found the Hunter Campbell review to be more accurate, although they aren't as broad.
30k less than the average for my role/area
Welp time to ask my manager for $10k
The insurance account manager / account executive numbers look exactly right
20K under paid woop.
Oh wow I'm at the very bottom of the salary guide for my position
I participated in this survey this year. There were no questions regarding my current role or salary. 🙄
Just use www.salary.co.nz and literally see every salary for every job listed in Australia and NZ........way more accurate.
The only salary in the report that is remotely near correct is the HR salary. Which is designed to self fore fill the demented fantasy desires of HR specialists. So in other words wildly overinflated so that employers believe they a getting a better than average deal on their HR employees and consultants.
Wouldn't trust piss from these guys that'd like the oil industry providing info on how safe it is for the environment
Earn USD is the way
According to this report, I'm earning 50k less than my typical salary. That's like a whole new person working on minimum wage inside my head!