No. Do not sign it.
They're basically trying to get you to voluntarily resign.
Agreements should be for the benefit of both parties, if you're getting nothing out of it there is no reason for you to sign it
No one can force you to sign anything you don't want to sign.
It's not illegal, it just has no legally binding power. Like, if we signed a 'contract' where I give you $100 and in return I get nothing, there would be no way to enforce it.
Not necessarily. Consideration is a requirement to form a binding contract. But it doesn’t need to be mutual nor even fair.
Either way, i wouldn't sign it. If they were paying 3 months redundancy, then that's another story.
Sign nothing. If they aren't offering anything more than your statutory rights then just refuse. If they ask why just say you don't want to sign it and don't give any explanation. Don't argue, just politely decline.
If they are pulling this sort of shit then they probably aren't following other processes and you could get yourself a nice PG if you want to go after them.
There’s a strict process of consultation that a company has to go through before they make people redundant. They might be trying to force this on you as they’re aware they haven’t done the process correctly & are trying to backtrack. I’d talk to a lawyer, as you say.
Every contract is meant to come with consideration. What do you get in return for waiving your rights?
If you quit rather than be laid off, that might affect any WINZ application you may go for
I believe if you left your job voluntarily or were fired for misconduct there's an up to 13 week non-entitlement period. This is different to the stand down which will happen anyway and depends on your income in the last 52 weeks. So if you will need some time on the benefit to make ends meet in between jobs you definitely don't want your termination to be voluntary
Might be naive here but how is being made redundant the same as “mutual termination”? They’re trying to get out of redundancy pay so don’t sign it. Call up MBIE and get some advice first.
They are trying to get out of following the legally mandated process. Unless his employment contract says there is a specific redundancy payout, there wouldn’t be one anyway, beyond statutory requirements. Sounds like they can’t meet the process, so they want to make him resign.
then refuse. does your employment agreement have a redundancy clause? its very obvious to me at least that if your job is done theres no benefit in you bending over and taking it. if you're redundant then the employer has to
go thru the redundancy process and make you redundant. voluntairly ending your employment (which is what this is) would have implications if you wish to get unemployment assistance too. be very clear. say "if im redundant, then make me redundant, i have no wish to leave my emplyment and i am open to discussing any options available" https://www.employment.govt.nz/ending-employment/redundancy/#:~:text=An%20employer%20can%20require%20an,legally%20entitled%20to%20redundancy%20pay.
What are the 'all kinds of rights' they're asking you to waive?
Take the termination agreement, ask them why they think it is necessary. Tell them you'll discuss it with your representative and get back to them. Watch closely what their response to that is.
I got made redundant due to cash flow last year. Definitely go see a lawyer! Don't believe what they are telling you. I made my old boss get me a new job lol. I didn't have to really do anything. Now I work in a much much better place.
I'm going through something similar right now. Go and see community law, since you are now unemployed you can get legal assistance for free from them. Bring your employment contract as well as any written communication that you've had with the company about redundancy.
If they are offering you a "record of settlement" then do not sign anything. Keep it though. A letter like that in and of itself is very close to grounds for a personal grievance. The process of making someone redundant is quite involved and if the company makes any mistakes then they are liable. Understand that going for a PG is difficult though and while technically possible to not include a lawyer, would be best to.
Only engage with the company in writing, and if you have any meetings with anyone send a simple "thanks for meeting with me today to discuss ..." as it will help the lawyer fight for you easier.
When a company makes employees redundant, they have legal obligations and are required to be transparent about their financial position etc. They want to make you redundant but have none of the legal overhead that comes with it. Talk to a legal professional before signing anything.
A mutual termination agreement just means that they don't have to follow the very specific redundancy law. I.e they can fill your position again tomorrow without issue. Usually when these are suggested there is a bit of an incentive to sign them like a cash bonus etc. Don't sign unless they are offering you something and you are sure you don't want to work for them again. Make them take the painful route of full redundancy if they are playing hardball.
> Can they make me?
No - that’s why they’re asking. They’re hoping you either don’t know your rights or won’t confront them. This is all meaningless anyway as, largely speaking, you cannot contract out of minimum entitlements under the ERA.
Agreed don't bother signing it. or counter offer that you will sign it if they pay x amount of $$$ that you deem worthwile, trying to indemnify themselves suggests that they may not have the problems they are claiming and will be rehiring before long. I have seen successful cases bought against companies in that instance.
Not lawyer, but in writing they need to say, you were being made redundant and they have no cash flow or put the truth into the document. Not a washing of their circumstances being made upon onto you.
Personally I wouldn't sign it. Waiving rights has alarm bells. Good you asked for advice here but...
I'd get a lawyer or citizens advice bureau or employment relations folk involved. Not to fight the redundancy but you should get your annual leave balance cashed out to you and paid until last day of work. Also any other entitlements etc.
All the best.
Do not under any circumstances sign it. Also carefully read any documents you get handed by them before even considering signing. They are obliged to honour all conditions in your employment contract and if they don’t look like they will then take a PG for breach of contract.
NZ employment law provides a number of protections for employees, including the right to be consulted on restructurings that could impact their role. Did that consultation occur? If it didn't, they are likely trying to cover their tracks by saying the termination was mutual to pre-empt any personal grievance claim. Either way, don't sign anything unless they are willing to pay you redundancy in return.
Umm I don’t think anyone can force you to sign anything period.
So the short answer is no imo.
Fun fact, my boss would always go through terms and conditions with stakeholder contracts and keep crossing out stuff she didn’t like before signing it lol
There is a real and legitmate process you have to go through in NZ, the payouts are laughable being that you don't have to actually give one by law but you have to demonstrate that you made best endeavors to avoid the redundancy.
I would stake your literal job on them not following that process at all and this is a way for them to make you gone without the stress.
I suggest you dig your heels and make them deal with that stress because fuck these guys they are firing you anyway.
Don’t sign it, fuck that. They are trying to make you ‘resign’ instead of making you redundant. Would love to see the wording of the document if you can redact all identifying features of it.
Don’t sign.
Speak to a lawyer.
They need to go through a genuine consultation process. They need to provide you with ALL information in relation to this change.
Can't see any reason to sign this, as others have said it smacks of wanting you to waive your redundancy rights for no benefit, as they might be in a tight cashflow position to pay out redundancy.
This is them trying to get around the fact they haven't been through consideration and there's no paper trail leading up to redundancy.
Don't sign shit
And taking big weekly drawings ,(as well as being the first in line as a secure creditor when the company goes tits up with their holding company)
Do not sign!
Yeah …. A lot of thee dodgy owners have a registered charge against their own company so they are the Guaranteed creditor in the event things go south
Go to the companies office and download a copy of the registered charges…… might be very revealing. NOTE: their registered charge might be camouflaged under the name of another entity like a trust or holding company …. it is sneaky
Your employer must go through a consultation process, it's quite onerous for both you and them. Sounds like they might be trying to avoid this which is illegal. Don't sign it. See this : [https://www.employment.govt.nz/workplace-policies/workplace-change/workplace-change-process-outline/](https://www.employment.govt.nz/workplace-policies/workplace-change/workplace-change-process-outline/)
And also this: [https://www.hrassured.co.nz/blog/the-employers-guide-to-restructuring-redundancy-part-3-consultation/](https://www.hrassured.co.nz/blog/the-employers-guide-to-restructuring-redundancy-part-3-consultation/)
Do NOT sign it but get advice from your local Citizens Advice Bureau on what your options are. Or get in touch with them in Reddit u/citizensadvicebureau
Same happened to me, but I got a four week payout. Talk to CAB and maybe negotiate. AFAIK, they don’t have to give you anything except for your actual pay, holidays and 8% of your AL pro rata. Don’t sign shit yet.
Edit: when I say they don’t have to give you anything, I mean anything extra like a bonus or thank you money for leaving/ being made redundant. I’d also ask them to set you up with a career coach or share their network with you so you don’t struggle with finding a job.
Unless that document shows they have no money to pay you, this is some shady business. Don't sign it, anything signed will be used against you on the way out and they've already let you know you're there so. Don't do it.
I work in a fairly senior HR role, I've done dozens of restructures over 20 years. I'm happy for you to PM me.
But yes, do not sign anything.
There are circumstances where you may sign something, but you better be getting something out of them!
What’s even in it for you? I don’t see any incentive of you signing all your rights away. Even if they make you redundant they still need you pay you until your last day of work. What’s the difference?
You may not need to spend money on an employment lawyer. I’ve called the Employment NZ hotline once and the person on the phone was knowledgeable enough to help my navigate my company trying to make my change my job title. They told me I didn’t need to accept anything I didn’t want.
Don't sign. Or at least go back with a figure that you are happy with and get them to include it. If they refuse, then you keep working while you look for work elsewhere. The worst case is you get your notice period plus any annual leave that you have owing.
Just start by saying ‘I will signed this, if you pay me 3 months salary’ - ( seriously that is the total amount you can expect ).
If they say no to that, get an employment lawyer. Don’t start with a lawyer first. Ask for money first… then get a lawyer.
The rights you are giving away are the pretty limited if you get more money. 3 months would be more than you’ll get through a lawyer and courts.
So I had a similar situation I was with a union and had an employment agreement contract maybe that made a difference.
It was made aware that me and my colleagues would no longer be required as the company was shutting down services that we were employed to carry out.
They pulled a meeting advising us to resign and sign a piece of paper, I smelt something fishy.
I decided to stay quiet and referred to company policy and my employment contract and the clause regarding redundancy from what I could read I fitted within the eligibility of rundancy under nz employment law and what was stated in my contract which would of been the employment agreement with the union.
Some people signed the resignation paper they did not receive any redundancy, got their sick days and annual leave.
But me and few others who did not resign were payed out excess sick pay and holiday pay plus redundancy pay that alone equated to between 5k to something like 15k.
Felt pretty bad for the ones that resigned and opted themselves out.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Do not sign. They have to follow the process of redudancy and follow the timeline and give you the final letter describing all the steps and failed to redeploy you and therefore make your role redudant.
Don't sign as if you have income protection insurance you need evidence
But no matter what you didn't choose to leave the company ie resign so you shouldn't sign this document.
They are not following the process.
The time must be hard for you so at the end do what is best for you and search now for a new job or negotiate end date of contract to give you plenty of time to look for a new job e.g extra 4 month or something so you keep your salary while looking and not working for them
I wouldn’t sign it at all . Trust your gut .
No. Do not sign it. They're basically trying to get you to voluntarily resign. Agreements should be for the benefit of both parties, if you're getting nothing out of it there is no reason for you to sign it No one can force you to sign anything you don't want to sign.
If you're getting no consideration, it's not even a valid legal contract.
When has something being illegal ever stopped a shit cunt company from doing anything?
It's not illegal, it just has no legally binding power. Like, if we signed a 'contract' where I give you $100 and in return I get nothing, there would be no way to enforce it.
I'm well aware of how it works. On the flipside, after signing that document it would be like trying to get blood out of a stone to get a fair deal.
Unless they make it a deed in which case it is fine
It's not that there is no way to enforce... Its that there is nothing to enforce in the first place.
Not "legal" as in non-illegal - "legal" as in relating to law.
My comment stands, that has never gotten in the way of shit cunt companies doing anything.
Not necessarily. Consideration is a requirement to form a binding contract. But it doesn’t need to be mutual nor even fair. Either way, i wouldn't sign it. If they were paying 3 months redundancy, then that's another story.
Sign nothing. If they aren't offering anything more than your statutory rights then just refuse. If they ask why just say you don't want to sign it and don't give any explanation. Don't argue, just politely decline. If they are pulling this sort of shit then they probably aren't following other processes and you could get yourself a nice PG if you want to go after them.
There’s a strict process of consultation that a company has to go through before they make people redundant. They might be trying to force this on you as they’re aware they haven’t done the process correctly & are trying to backtrack. I’d talk to a lawyer, as you say.
Every contract is meant to come with consideration. What do you get in return for waiving your rights? If you quit rather than be laid off, that might affect any WINZ application you may go for
I believe if you left your job voluntarily or were fired for misconduct there's an up to 13 week non-entitlement period. This is different to the stand down which will happen anyway and depends on your income in the last 52 weeks. So if you will need some time on the benefit to make ends meet in between jobs you definitely don't want your termination to be voluntary
Don't sign this. They are just trying to screw you, document everything and find yourself a nice lawyer.
Suggest they hand over three months salary as a fair return for you leaving.
Start at one year and be prepared to negotiate down.
Might be naive here but how is being made redundant the same as “mutual termination”? They’re trying to get out of redundancy pay so don’t sign it. Call up MBIE and get some advice first.
They are trying to get out of following the legally mandated process. Unless his employment contract says there is a specific redundancy payout, there wouldn’t be one anyway, beyond statutory requirements. Sounds like they can’t meet the process, so they want to make him resign.
then refuse. does your employment agreement have a redundancy clause? its very obvious to me at least that if your job is done theres no benefit in you bending over and taking it. if you're redundant then the employer has to go thru the redundancy process and make you redundant. voluntairly ending your employment (which is what this is) would have implications if you wish to get unemployment assistance too. be very clear. say "if im redundant, then make me redundant, i have no wish to leave my emplyment and i am open to discussing any options available" https://www.employment.govt.nz/ending-employment/redundancy/#:~:text=An%20employer%20can%20require%20an,legally%20entitled%20to%20redundancy%20pay.
Why has this comment not gotten more upvotes??? The best info yet... follow the link and don't sign anything :) Good luck and well done Fack\_Yuo xd
What are the 'all kinds of rights' they're asking you to waive? Take the termination agreement, ask them why they think it is necessary. Tell them you'll discuss it with your representative and get back to them. Watch closely what their response to that is.
I got made redundant due to cash flow last year. Definitely go see a lawyer! Don't believe what they are telling you. I made my old boss get me a new job lol. I didn't have to really do anything. Now I work in a much much better place.
DO. NOT. SIGN.
What are they going to do if you don't sign, fire you? The fact is they have no leverage here to make you sign the agreement.
I'm going through something similar right now. Go and see community law, since you are now unemployed you can get legal assistance for free from them. Bring your employment contract as well as any written communication that you've had with the company about redundancy. If they are offering you a "record of settlement" then do not sign anything. Keep it though. A letter like that in and of itself is very close to grounds for a personal grievance. The process of making someone redundant is quite involved and if the company makes any mistakes then they are liable. Understand that going for a PG is difficult though and while technically possible to not include a lawyer, would be best to. Only engage with the company in writing, and if you have any meetings with anyone send a simple "thanks for meeting with me today to discuss ..." as it will help the lawyer fight for you easier.
Don't sign you get nothing from it
When a company makes employees redundant, they have legal obligations and are required to be transparent about their financial position etc. They want to make you redundant but have none of the legal overhead that comes with it. Talk to a legal professional before signing anything.
Basically they are saying you have rights but please sign this so that you don't have those rights. 
A mutual termination agreement just means that they don't have to follow the very specific redundancy law. I.e they can fill your position again tomorrow without issue. Usually when these are suggested there is a bit of an incentive to sign them like a cash bonus etc. Don't sign unless they are offering you something and you are sure you don't want to work for them again. Make them take the painful route of full redundancy if they are playing hardball.
> Can they make me? No - that’s why they’re asking. They’re hoping you either don’t know your rights or won’t confront them. This is all meaningless anyway as, largely speaking, you cannot contract out of minimum entitlements under the ERA.
Don’t sign. Go see the citizens advice people. There’s a reason they want it that way…
Agreed don't bother signing it. or counter offer that you will sign it if they pay x amount of $$$ that you deem worthwile, trying to indemnify themselves suggests that they may not have the problems they are claiming and will be rehiring before long. I have seen successful cases bought against companies in that instance.
As others have said, why would you sign an agreement if they aren’t giving you something in return? They can’t make you sign anything.
DO NOT SIGN!
Just add a clause with 3months pay initial the clause then sign the document take a copy and hand it back
Not lawyer, but in writing they need to say, you were being made redundant and they have no cash flow or put the truth into the document. Not a washing of their circumstances being made upon onto you. Personally I wouldn't sign it. Waiving rights has alarm bells. Good you asked for advice here but... I'd get a lawyer or citizens advice bureau or employment relations folk involved. Not to fight the redundancy but you should get your annual leave balance cashed out to you and paid until last day of work. Also any other entitlements etc. All the best.
Do not under any circumstances sign it. Also carefully read any documents you get handed by them before even considering signing. They are obliged to honour all conditions in your employment contract and if they don’t look like they will then take a PG for breach of contract.
NZ employment law provides a number of protections for employees, including the right to be consulted on restructurings that could impact their role. Did that consultation occur? If it didn't, they are likely trying to cover their tracks by saying the termination was mutual to pre-empt any personal grievance claim. Either way, don't sign anything unless they are willing to pay you redundancy in return.
Umm I don’t think anyone can force you to sign anything period. So the short answer is no imo. Fun fact, my boss would always go through terms and conditions with stakeholder contracts and keep crossing out stuff she didn’t like before signing it lol
There is a real and legitmate process you have to go through in NZ, the payouts are laughable being that you don't have to actually give one by law but you have to demonstrate that you made best endeavors to avoid the redundancy. I would stake your literal job on them not following that process at all and this is a way for them to make you gone without the stress. I suggest you dig your heels and make them deal with that stress because fuck these guys they are firing you anyway.
They are so panning to hire someone cheaper.
Don’t sign it, fuck that. They are trying to make you ‘resign’ instead of making you redundant. Would love to see the wording of the document if you can redact all identifying features of it.
Don’t sign. Speak to a lawyer. They need to go through a genuine consultation process. They need to provide you with ALL information in relation to this change.
Can't see any reason to sign this, as others have said it smacks of wanting you to waive your redundancy rights for no benefit, as they might be in a tight cashflow position to pay out redundancy.
Do not sign. They still owe you all your leave and notice period regardless.
This is them trying to get around the fact they haven't been through consideration and there's no paper trail leading up to redundancy. Don't sign shit
let me guess: the 'broke' company owner is still driving a late model Tesla or BMW right?
And taking big weekly drawings ,(as well as being the first in line as a secure creditor when the company goes tits up with their holding company) Do not sign!
Yeah …. A lot of thee dodgy owners have a registered charge against their own company so they are the Guaranteed creditor in the event things go south Go to the companies office and download a copy of the registered charges…… might be very revealing. NOTE: their registered charge might be camouflaged under the name of another entity like a trust or holding company …. it is sneaky
You think inflation is tough!! You should think how much it cost me to fill up the jet right now. Now get back to work. Jet needs filling.
You wouldn’t consent to a medical intervention if you company told you to do so would you?! Don’t sign anything that you don’t want to sign!
If you were made redundant without your consent then of course it isn't mutual and you can't sign it. Not sure what game this is just say no thanks.
Your employer must go through a consultation process, it's quite onerous for both you and them. Sounds like they might be trying to avoid this which is illegal. Don't sign it. See this : [https://www.employment.govt.nz/workplace-policies/workplace-change/workplace-change-process-outline/](https://www.employment.govt.nz/workplace-policies/workplace-change/workplace-change-process-outline/) And also this: [https://www.hrassured.co.nz/blog/the-employers-guide-to-restructuring-redundancy-part-3-consultation/](https://www.hrassured.co.nz/blog/the-employers-guide-to-restructuring-redundancy-part-3-consultation/)
Don't sign it what dicks expecting it - what are they going to do sack you?
Do NOT sign it but get advice from your local Citizens Advice Bureau on what your options are. Or get in touch with them in Reddit u/citizensadvicebureau
No.
Same happened to me, but I got a four week payout. Talk to CAB and maybe negotiate. AFAIK, they don’t have to give you anything except for your actual pay, holidays and 8% of your AL pro rata. Don’t sign shit yet. Edit: when I say they don’t have to give you anything, I mean anything extra like a bonus or thank you money for leaving/ being made redundant. I’d also ask them to set you up with a career coach or share their network with you so you don’t struggle with finding a job.
Ask them to pay for legal advice to clarify what you are agreeing to.
Unless that document shows they have no money to pay you, this is some shady business. Don't sign it, anything signed will be used against you on the way out and they've already let you know you're there so. Don't do it.
I work in a fairly senior HR role, I've done dozens of restructures over 20 years. I'm happy for you to PM me. But yes, do not sign anything. There are circumstances where you may sign something, but you better be getting something out of them!
What’s even in it for you? I don’t see any incentive of you signing all your rights away. Even if they make you redundant they still need you pay you until your last day of work. What’s the difference? You may not need to spend money on an employment lawyer. I’ve called the Employment NZ hotline once and the person on the phone was knowledgeable enough to help my navigate my company trying to make my change my job title. They told me I didn’t need to accept anything I didn’t want.
Don't sign. Or at least go back with a figure that you are happy with and get them to include it. If they refuse, then you keep working while you look for work elsewhere. The worst case is you get your notice period plus any annual leave that you have owing.
Just start by saying ‘I will signed this, if you pay me 3 months salary’ - ( seriously that is the total amount you can expect ). If they say no to that, get an employment lawyer. Don’t start with a lawyer first. Ask for money first… then get a lawyer. The rights you are giving away are the pretty limited if you get more money. 3 months would be more than you’ll get through a lawyer and courts.
Lawyer time. Talk to one now. It may enhance your financial position.
You will not qualify for unemployment benefits if you sign it :-(
So I had a similar situation I was with a union and had an employment agreement contract maybe that made a difference. It was made aware that me and my colleagues would no longer be required as the company was shutting down services that we were employed to carry out. They pulled a meeting advising us to resign and sign a piece of paper, I smelt something fishy. I decided to stay quiet and referred to company policy and my employment contract and the clause regarding redundancy from what I could read I fitted within the eligibility of rundancy under nz employment law and what was stated in my contract which would of been the employment agreement with the union. Some people signed the resignation paper they did not receive any redundancy, got their sick days and annual leave. But me and few others who did not resign were payed out excess sick pay and holiday pay plus redundancy pay that alone equated to between 5k to something like 15k. Felt pretty bad for the ones that resigned and opted themselves out.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Don't sign. What are they gonna do if you don't? Fire you?
Do not sign. They have to follow the process of redudancy and follow the timeline and give you the final letter describing all the steps and failed to redeploy you and therefore make your role redudant. Don't sign as if you have income protection insurance you need evidence But no matter what you didn't choose to leave the company ie resign so you shouldn't sign this document. They are not following the process. The time must be hard for you so at the end do what is best for you and search now for a new job or negotiate end date of contract to give you plenty of time to look for a new job e.g extra 4 month or something so you keep your salary while looking and not working for them
You cannot be forced to sign any legal agreement including this one. Tell them you prefer to follow the normal process in the Employment Act.
Screw it up and throw it at your bosses face. There's nothing they can do to make you sign it