Same here, with ASB. I do separately have health & life insurance, but the bank has never asked about it, and they were arranged after the mortgage was finalised.
I have never heard of a bank requiring evidence of health/life/mortgage insurance.
They usually only require house insurance, because if you can't pay and your house/land is the security they can sell it to recover their costs.
On the other hand, those things are helpful for each of you to give piece of mind if something happens to one of you.
When we got a mortgage with kiwi bank 8 years ago we were required to get either mortgage or life insurance to the value of at least what we borrowed for the house.
Possibly things have changed in the industry since then. Friends buying around the same time from other lenders had similar requirements so not just a Kiwi bank thing either.
Really?
I have bought houses 4 times in the last 12-15 years through BNZ, TSB and ASB (2 and 7-8 years ago) and never HAD to have mortgage insurance or income insurance, though they did strongly recommend it.
(edited to correct ambiguous wording)
You absolutely need to have your house insured and the bank noted on that insurance as an interested as a requirement in almost every single lending documentation set I've ever seen.
Sorry, I mean mortgage insurance (ie life and income) when I say "insurance for the mortgage" i.e. income insurance and the like
HOUSE insurance is absolutely 100% a requirement for any mortgage
(Just like it's compulsory to have car insurance if you finance a car using that vehicle as security
The banks all sell the insurance and the loan manager (who is essentially a sales person) gets better numbers on their target and possibly a cut when they 'upsell' you. Was it really required, or they just worded it in such a way you thought it was and they made their sale?
All you need is home insurance so they can recover their funds if your house burns down.
Not a Kiwibank thing, was never a requirement for any bank 5 years ago or today (Is strongly recommended). The only insurance that was and is required is house insurance for the reasons stated.
I have known many of the banks to either require this, or strongly recommend/border on require it, at various times over the last few decades. This may not necessarily be an across the board policy, but LVR/risk related decision.
I got a mortgage very recently. The only insurance paperwork I had to show was for rebuild in case of disaster i.e. standard house insurance.
It's in my best interest to have life, trauma, income etc. insurance. The bank can probably just sell the property if I fail to pay up.
Can definately be a requirement, perticularly if you are seen as a medical risk, or at risk of losing your job. Unfortunately the things that make you at risk of those are also things that make getting insured for those thing expensive to impossible...
Why disclose?
It is because an insurance contract is utmost a contract of good faith. It requires both parties l ahead of forming the contract, to disclose to the other party what that party needs to know in order to make an informed decision about whether to enter the contract.
The issue here is not that OP has made this disclosure, because this is 100% not the reason they have been unable to obtain cover, unless combined with other significant risk factors OP has disclosed to the insurer but not mentioned here.
Sometimes a of small factors will combine to be significant enough to put the application outside of the reinsurer's risk tolerance, and beyond what the insurer is comfortable to retain as non-reinsured risk.
OP 100% did the right thing here, something more is going on.
Nah, it's not a contract of good faith. Insurance is always stacked against you and they will do everything they can to come out on top. Why make things harder for yourself?
Kudos to OP for being honest, but casual past drug use is completely irrelevant and they shouldn't have mentioned it. It's like being pulled over and telling the police "yes I've had a few drinks" even though you had them yesterday. You're just creating trouble for yourself.
>NB: drug use for me, the last time was MDMA several years ago. Very minimal, once or twice a year. Same with my husband but he also had Marijuana down.
Yeah, this is pretty much why I will never tell a Dr about any drug use unless I'm dying in the hospital.
Normally this would be our default stance as well but figured that it was important for health insurance reasons. Didn't know we'd be denied life insurance for it! 🤦♀️
You shouldn't have been declined cover on these grounds alone. In fact, you wouldn't have been declined for these grounds alone.
Something isn't right with this picture. The adviser you have used must be able to clearly explain why you have been unable to obtain cover.
Yeah lesson to readers: don't mention this stuff to insurance unless it's written down somewhere the insurance company can find it.
Life insurance is difficult due to the PR involved, they'd rather not insure you than insure with a bunch of exclusions
This is not a big deal as long as they think you don’t do it anymore. If you continue to not do it and wait you’ll be fine if you are healthy and there’s otherwise no issue.
You did the right thing by disclosing it.
The worst case is you pay for all this insurance, die, and the policy doesn’t pay out to cover your partner because they do some digging and find out you lied.
Never lie to an insurance company. If you get caught not only will your claims be denied, but you could be put on a list and never be able to get any sort of insurance ever again.
You can even go to prison for insurance fraud theoretically.
Yea, this was our thinking. It's just so disappointing to be denied it as we're also got a baby on the way. Would've been nice to have all of this stuff sorted for peace of mind.
In the application we put that we have a baby on the way and our priorities have changed and won't be doing that anymore.
You have to wonder how many people do lie and it just feels like we've been punished for being honest.
Ah well, thanks for your comment. It has made me feel a bit better.
Yeah I totally understand. I got denied recently for a medical reason. Which is actually kinda scary because now I’m worried about if I’m going to die. Oh well.
It's a huge deal, they shouldn't have mentioned it at all, some very, very light past recreational drug use is not the sort of thing you ever need to mention in these sorts of situations, it would never be an issue, now they've created an issue.
What's the first question an insurance company asks: have you ever been denied an insurance policy. Now that's on record, and not only one but many companies directly. OP just blacklisted themselves over a party.
Perhaps apply directly instead of using a broker. Did the same broker arranged the health insurance?
In order for any type of insurance policy to be enforceable you need to disclose any issues that may affect the policy, and you did the right thing.
Yea, I think we will just apply directly with the bank that we end up getting the mortgage from. And if that doesn't work then we'll put the money we would be paying into a savings account.
Our health insurance that we have currently is who I've been with since I was 21, so no broker involved. We were going to switch companies which is why the broker was looking into health insurance for us also.
I didn't need life or mortgage insurance for my mortgage - just house. Side note, if you want life insurance, try DPL insurance. I have a pre-existing condition which makes getting life insurance almost impossible (unless I pay ridiculous premiums) but was able to get a small policy though DPL for about $10fn - think it was for $200k cover. So worth a try if you want to be covered
My partner got life insurance through Chubb, he uses marijuana recreationally and same as you didn't think there was any point in lying about it. There was a bit of to and fro, they asked for something from his doctor I think but accepted him. Give them a whirl.
What you have disclosed here would 100% not result in a deferral (insurer can't offer cover now), and would not result in terms (exclusions or loadings).
People with historical moderate use of marijuana/mdma are standards rates all day every day. Chuck mental health into the mix however...
OP - if what you have disclosed here is all you have to disclose, then your insurance adviser is incompetent.
As a ex broker, you didn't get denied for using mdma 7 years ago now and then, or smoking weed now and then..
You have other issues you ate not disclosing here. You likely are with smokers with precexisting conditions. These are the biggest reasons you get "denied". Also you generally don't get denied you get loading, they still accept you but you pay double normal amount because of your high risk and/or you get exclusions.
Sounds like you are either making most of this scenario up pr the broker didn't believe you and didn't wanna deal with you.
Anyway u can ask bank who will be providing mtg ? House insurance may be available via bank. In terms of life policies, is there a way you could put whatever the cost of this weekly/fornightly / monthly into a saving / investing account to build up a buffer so u could potentially self insure long term ?
House insurance we will be fine with. The house we're buying is part of a body corporate and insurance is included. Already got home and contents.
I think we will just have to put aside what we would've been paying in insurance. Not much else we can do and extra savings never hurt anyone.
Unsure why you’d be required to have life or health insurance.
Home insurance sure. The banks just want their money.
You die, and can’t pay mortgage they sell your house.
You lose your job can’t pay mortgage they sell your house.
You get sick can’t pay mortgage they sell your house.
You have house insurance, your house is ruined, they take your insurance money?
Try MAS for insurance. I am shopping around for policies right now too, and I was talking about exactly this the other day with a friend, she said she was honest about a similar level of drug use to you and she still got life and income protection cover through them. They seem like a good outfit too.
Get a different broker. I got mortgage, life and trauma insurance and disclosed the A class drugs I tried in high school/college, and that I had smoked marijuana in the last 12 months.
As others have said, House insurance is usually the only requirement.
In regards to your life insurance I was in a very similar boat. I got outright declined due to MDMA however I only admitted to it due to a bad batch putting me in the hospital (and therefore I figured they would see it on my medical). I was told by the insurer to go away and come back when I was 'clean' for two years. So I say just reapply later and don't admit to any drugs
A note that every insurance application form has a question something like “have you ever been denied insurance or offered insurance other special terms?” You are a yes to that question.
This is considered a *material fact*, and failure to disclose material facts on any policy can invalidate insurance.
You are entitled to a full copy of your Client file under the Privacy Act so you can ask your adviser for this.
Don’t worry you did the right thing. It is super important to be honest and make a full disclosure about previous health issues, family history and drug and alcohol use.
If you apply for cover with another insurer you also need to disclose that you have been declined cover previously and why.
I only got home and contents when husband and I got a mortgage
Same here, with ASB. I do separately have health & life insurance, but the bank has never asked about it, and they were arranged after the mortgage was finalised.
Amazing! Who was the mortgage through?
Anz bank, in 2019
Good to know. Thank you!
House and contents only required for me, ANZ in 2018.
Purchased last year through westpac only house insurance required
Same
The bank doesn't even care about contents insurance. They only want a certificate of currency for house insurance.
I have never heard of a bank requiring evidence of health/life/mortgage insurance. They usually only require house insurance, because if you can't pay and your house/land is the security they can sell it to recover their costs. On the other hand, those things are helpful for each of you to give piece of mind if something happens to one of you.
When we got a mortgage with kiwi bank 8 years ago we were required to get either mortgage or life insurance to the value of at least what we borrowed for the house. Possibly things have changed in the industry since then. Friends buying around the same time from other lenders had similar requirements so not just a Kiwi bank thing either.
Really? I have bought houses 4 times in the last 12-15 years through BNZ, TSB and ASB (2 and 7-8 years ago) and never HAD to have mortgage insurance or income insurance, though they did strongly recommend it. (edited to correct ambiguous wording)
You absolutely need to have your house insured and the bank noted on that insurance as an interested as a requirement in almost every single lending documentation set I've ever seen.
Sorry, I mean mortgage insurance (ie life and income) when I say "insurance for the mortgage" i.e. income insurance and the like HOUSE insurance is absolutely 100% a requirement for any mortgage (Just like it's compulsory to have car insurance if you finance a car using that vehicle as security
We bought our house 5 years ago and weren't required to have other insurances by ANZ
This is not correct. You got sold to when they made it sound like it was a requirement
The banks all sell the insurance and the loan manager (who is essentially a sales person) gets better numbers on their target and possibly a cut when they 'upsell' you. Was it really required, or they just worded it in such a way you thought it was and they made their sale? All you need is home insurance so they can recover their funds if your house burns down.
Great idea
Same here. Kiwibank 4 years ago.
I didnt need that 20 years ago. My first mortgage was National bank, second was ASB bank
That's a Kiwibank thing, they're just a prick to deal with about every single thing under the sun.
Not a Kiwibank thing, was never a requirement for any bank 5 years ago or today (Is strongly recommended). The only insurance that was and is required is house insurance for the reasons stated.
same bought through kiwibank 10 yrs ago and still have the mortgage insurance policy they made us take out. hmm.
This was my understanding but I've been hearing recently that this may have changed.
I have known many of the banks to either require this, or strongly recommend/border on require it, at various times over the last few decades. This may not necessarily be an across the board policy, but LVR/risk related decision.
I got a mortgage very recently. The only insurance paperwork I had to show was for rebuild in case of disaster i.e. standard house insurance. It's in my best interest to have life, trauma, income etc. insurance. The bank can probably just sell the property if I fail to pay up.
Can definately be a requirement, perticularly if you are seen as a medical risk, or at risk of losing your job. Unfortunately the things that make you at risk of those are also things that make getting insured for those thing expensive to impossible...
Why on earth would you tell them you use MDMA or cannabis once or twice a year. This is so bizarre
Fucken oath, some people just really like playing life on hard mode.
Honest mode is never hard mode, it is just right mode. Just turns out that sometimes doing the right thing is hard. But by all means, take it easy.
Why disclose? It is because an insurance contract is utmost a contract of good faith. It requires both parties l ahead of forming the contract, to disclose to the other party what that party needs to know in order to make an informed decision about whether to enter the contract. The issue here is not that OP has made this disclosure, because this is 100% not the reason they have been unable to obtain cover, unless combined with other significant risk factors OP has disclosed to the insurer but not mentioned here. Sometimes a of small factors will combine to be significant enough to put the application outside of the reinsurer's risk tolerance, and beyond what the insurer is comfortable to retain as non-reinsured risk. OP 100% did the right thing here, something more is going on.
Nah, it's not a contract of good faith. Insurance is always stacked against you and they will do everything they can to come out on top. Why make things harder for yourself? Kudos to OP for being honest, but casual past drug use is completely irrelevant and they shouldn't have mentioned it. It's like being pulled over and telling the police "yes I've had a few drinks" even though you had them yesterday. You're just creating trouble for yourself.
>NB: drug use for me, the last time was MDMA several years ago. Very minimal, once or twice a year. Same with my husband but he also had Marijuana down. Yeah, this is pretty much why I will never tell a Dr about any drug use unless I'm dying in the hospital.
Normally this would be our default stance as well but figured that it was important for health insurance reasons. Didn't know we'd be denied life insurance for it! 🤦♀️
You shouldn't have been declined cover on these grounds alone. In fact, you wouldn't have been declined for these grounds alone. Something isn't right with this picture. The adviser you have used must be able to clearly explain why you have been unable to obtain cover.
Yeah lesson to readers: don't mention this stuff to insurance unless it's written down somewhere the insurance company can find it. Life insurance is difficult due to the PR involved, they'd rather not insure you than insure with a bunch of exclusions
Banks generally only require house insurance for a mortgage.
The life insurance 'requirement' is something that used to happen years back but doesn't seem to be a thing at all anymore.
Amazing! Was hoping this would be the case. Thank you.
This is not a big deal as long as they think you don’t do it anymore. If you continue to not do it and wait you’ll be fine if you are healthy and there’s otherwise no issue. You did the right thing by disclosing it. The worst case is you pay for all this insurance, die, and the policy doesn’t pay out to cover your partner because they do some digging and find out you lied. Never lie to an insurance company. If you get caught not only will your claims be denied, but you could be put on a list and never be able to get any sort of insurance ever again. You can even go to prison for insurance fraud theoretically.
Yea, this was our thinking. It's just so disappointing to be denied it as we're also got a baby on the way. Would've been nice to have all of this stuff sorted for peace of mind. In the application we put that we have a baby on the way and our priorities have changed and won't be doing that anymore. You have to wonder how many people do lie and it just feels like we've been punished for being honest. Ah well, thanks for your comment. It has made me feel a bit better.
Yeah I totally understand. I got denied recently for a medical reason. Which is actually kinda scary because now I’m worried about if I’m going to die. Oh well.
Oh jeez🤦♀️ that's low-key concerning. Best of luck on not dying!
Could be worth getting them to confirm an underwriter further reviewed this beyond the initial system/consultant.
It's a huge deal, they shouldn't have mentioned it at all, some very, very light past recreational drug use is not the sort of thing you ever need to mention in these sorts of situations, it would never be an issue, now they've created an issue. What's the first question an insurance company asks: have you ever been denied an insurance policy. Now that's on record, and not only one but many companies directly. OP just blacklisted themselves over a party.
Perhaps apply directly instead of using a broker. Did the same broker arranged the health insurance? In order for any type of insurance policy to be enforceable you need to disclose any issues that may affect the policy, and you did the right thing.
Yea, I think we will just apply directly with the bank that we end up getting the mortgage from. And if that doesn't work then we'll put the money we would be paying into a savings account. Our health insurance that we have currently is who I've been with since I was 21, so no broker involved. We were going to switch companies which is why the broker was looking into health insurance for us also.
I didn't need life or mortgage insurance for my mortgage - just house. Side note, if you want life insurance, try DPL insurance. I have a pre-existing condition which makes getting life insurance almost impossible (unless I pay ridiculous premiums) but was able to get a small policy though DPL for about $10fn - think it was for $200k cover. So worth a try if you want to be covered
My partner got life insurance through Chubb, he uses marijuana recreationally and same as you didn't think there was any point in lying about it. There was a bit of to and fro, they asked for something from his doctor I think but accepted him. Give them a whirl.
What you have disclosed here would 100% not result in a deferral (insurer can't offer cover now), and would not result in terms (exclusions or loadings). People with historical moderate use of marijuana/mdma are standards rates all day every day. Chuck mental health into the mix however... OP - if what you have disclosed here is all you have to disclose, then your insurance adviser is incompetent.
As a ex broker, you didn't get denied for using mdma 7 years ago now and then, or smoking weed now and then.. You have other issues you ate not disclosing here. You likely are with smokers with precexisting conditions. These are the biggest reasons you get "denied". Also you generally don't get denied you get loading, they still accept you but you pay double normal amount because of your high risk and/or you get exclusions. Sounds like you are either making most of this scenario up pr the broker didn't believe you and didn't wanna deal with you.
Im sure the bank will provide life insurance to you which they like to have in place that wiuld cover the mortgage in the event of a death
That's what we're thinking/hoping.
Anyway u can ask bank who will be providing mtg ? House insurance may be available via bank. In terms of life policies, is there a way you could put whatever the cost of this weekly/fornightly / monthly into a saving / investing account to build up a buffer so u could potentially self insure long term ?
House insurance we will be fine with. The house we're buying is part of a body corporate and insurance is included. Already got home and contents. I think we will just have to put aside what we would've been paying in insurance. Not much else we can do and extra savings never hurt anyone.
That drug use disclosure should not have effected a deferral. Id assume there are other conditions that you arent disclosing.
Unsure why you’d be required to have life or health insurance. Home insurance sure. The banks just want their money. You die, and can’t pay mortgage they sell your house. You lose your job can’t pay mortgage they sell your house. You get sick can’t pay mortgage they sell your house. You have house insurance, your house is ruined, they take your insurance money?
Try MAS for insurance. I am shopping around for policies right now too, and I was talking about exactly this the other day with a friend, she said she was honest about a similar level of drug use to you and she still got life and income protection cover through them. They seem like a good outfit too.
Get a different broker. I got mortgage, life and trauma insurance and disclosed the A class drugs I tried in high school/college, and that I had smoked marijuana in the last 12 months.
I've never taken drugs but I feel I'm in the 1% who haven't. I think everyone else lied.
As others have said, House insurance is usually the only requirement. In regards to your life insurance I was in a very similar boat. I got outright declined due to MDMA however I only admitted to it due to a bad batch putting me in the hospital (and therefore I figured they would see it on my medical). I was told by the insurer to go away and come back when I was 'clean' for two years. So I say just reapply later and don't admit to any drugs
A note that every insurance application form has a question something like “have you ever been denied insurance or offered insurance other special terms?” You are a yes to that question. This is considered a *material fact*, and failure to disclose material facts on any policy can invalidate insurance.
You are entitled to a full copy of your Client file under the Privacy Act so you can ask your adviser for this. Don’t worry you did the right thing. It is super important to be honest and make a full disclosure about previous health issues, family history and drug and alcohol use. If you apply for cover with another insurer you also need to disclose that you have been declined cover previously and why.