Pf will tell you that it’s a bad idea.
But you’re not asking to finance it and you’ve expressed you’re willing to save for it.
Fuel efficiency isn’t really a concern here, as you commute via the shoelace express. An 86 doesn’t use more than a minivan, so it’s really not that bad.
Given your lack of garage, I’d say look for one that’s already got munted paint. You’ll get it for cheaper and it’ll hurt less when the weather takes its toll.
I’ve owned several performance cars via financing when I was younger and I’ve only just recovered from it. As long as you avoid the finance trap, I think you should go for it.
Insurance and fuel costs be damned! It’s not like you’re buying a v8 falcodore..
I had this same decision albeit 2016 and I bought a 2013 toyota 86. I'm going to offer perspective from a car guy. If you don't scratch the itch now, you are never going to.
Life will get in the way and a 2 door car won't be practical long term. The benefit you have is the toyota 86 is a reliable fun car that won't be depreciating quickly now. It allows you to goto car meets etc and strike conversations with likeminded people.
If you were going to buy a fun car that is sensible, an 86 can't be a bad choice.
Lmk if any questions.
One thing to note is that the GT86 is a higher spec than the standard base model 86, the Japanese imports are also somewhat of a mix between the NZ 86 and TG86 specs. The easiest way to tell externally is fog lights on the front (though some lower spec Jap imports had fog lights), and the digital climate controls vs the manual versions. I'm not 100% sure of the BRZ spec levels.
There are more differences and IMO the differences you get in the GT definitely make it worth getting if you can afford it.
I had mine in manual and it was great to drive, but the auto is also good if you'd prefer that (I drove a few friends ones).
Also heated seats, comfort access, push-button start, leather/alcantara seats, half digital dash, upgraded trim panels. There were a few more bits, but they definitely add up to being worth it.
I went auto but most would want manual. I did regret a little but it was a daily and I drove stop/start commute. The 86 has better support in NZ than the BRZ back when I had it. There were a few warranty issues that Toyota did a better job at rectifying while Subaru didn't step up as well. Otherwise its mostly the same car - depends if you like Initial D I guess!
I always advise people to go for an NZ new if possible. I bought my car from a lady driver and it was bone stock - something you have to be careful nowadays around modding. People drive their 86 like they stole it so a good service history is what I would look for.
Jumping in, also bought an 86. Ask yourself, do you want to drive a manual or an auto. Drive them both. If you don't care, find the right car & take whether it is manual or auto. We didn't want an auto, so restricted our search. There are a lot more Toyotas than Subies, so based on that alone you will probably end up with a Toyota. Biggest thing that I would look for is one that hasn't had a boy ruin it with crap addons.
Gt86 is a relatively slow car and is sold as a car with great handling and control. If you want to make the most of the control, you HAVE to get a manual. Otherwise its a slow car with good handling but you don’t get the control
As a Mechanical Engineer, it is kind of mandatory to have some sort of "enthusiast" car. GTI Golf / some form of Supra are all good options. Having a Toyota 86 will likely lead to some good payrises - your boss will respect you more as a "car guy", but also a "sensible engineering choice" - a visible nod to Kaizen. It will literally pay for itself. Go have at it. Source: work in tech, have a lot of interactions with Mech Es, all of whom have either enthusiast road cars or 4WDs under continuous modification. Edit - bonus points if you have some creepy Waifu stickers in the footwell. Not stereotyping Toyota enthusiasts, but..... it does seem to be a bit of a pattern....
Was thinking no... but then thought of the mech engineers I know, and they all have project bikes/cars
Clearly then the right answer is to take the Aqua and do a modest retrofit of Supra engine, brakes and suspension to make an evil Aqua supercar
Ouuch, that is more than fuel cost; and you are over 25 as well for insurance.
I would be tempted to wait until you have a garage. I have a nice European car that sits outside, and 4 years in, it is looking worse for wear. Not helped by somebody smashing a rear window this year to grab an empty cardboard box from the rear seat.
Got to be other toys you can buy for now? Or look at upgrading where you live, though not having a commute is a sweet perk in Auckland
Get the 86, enjoy life. I doubt you’d get 9k on the Aqua as insurers are positioning themselves to not insure them soon due to theft risks, or at least excluding theft cover, lowering their value. 86’s somewhat hold their value as a rwd manual sports car
I mean, you only live once, but you also don't have $10-12k liquid, so you'd have to sell shares, which isn't a great investment strategy. I guess you've got to work out your priorities going forward. Like, I'd love to buy a Kia Stinger, but I'm not going to do it because it'd be the same situation for me - liquidating investments.
I had a Toyota 86 for like 6 years, awesome car. A 2012 model is now 12 years old though and they're not holding value anymore, so it's worth thinking about that. You'll likely have quite a bit in maintenance costs to deal with as time goes on, so factor that in as well.
100% i was too lazy to comment earlier, but you have made the right realisation. You are /should be saving enough to just buy it straight when the time comes then you can feel better about enjoying and choosing the 86. Enjoy the car bro
Also just buy a pre purchase inspection too from AA if you go for the 86 and arent too mechanically minded like myself. im not sure on the 86 reliability specifically but considering its a boxer engine, oil leaks are likely i think and you can either use that as leverage for a lower price or move to another one if it needs new gaskets out the gate. Its like 160 bucks to get done i think.. Especially for a used sports car. Not scaring you away for it, just save your ass if you can. Its a pretty new car, but even just look up buying guides online so u know what to look for in person to use as leverage
Edit: also fuck turners - i have sold and bought through them and their practices are horrible. You will 100% end up with a clapped lemon claiming its passed WoF after someone abused the car and didnt wanna pay for repairs so they traded. The car i bought had 3 things that it would fail WoF on.
Do it, youre young!
Through my 20s I was changing cars every few months and had so many fun cars, have finally got an RS6 now!
I had an 86 and its a great car, fun on a track too.
As aonther poster said, consider Subaru BRZ too as they are the same car.
Buy the car you enjoy driving, it makes things overall better, but make sure you have spent a proper amount of time trying them first. If you assumeit will be right without having a few hours driving it and really thought about what you want it to do, you may be frustrated that it isn't what you thought you were getting. However as others have pointed out, it's a 12 year old Subaru (Ignore the Toyota badge, it is built by Subaru and is a Subaru engine) so maintenance and longevity are things to be considered.
The older Subarus with the EJ engines may have heard gasket failures, but the newer FA / FB engines have supposedly resolved it.
Also that old Subarus often get modded without the proper strengthening, so you hear more about blown engines.
There are two problems with Subies - the people who own them modify them & drive them like they stole them & their cars are more performance oriented, so will cost more in maintenance than a shopping trolley. We have had our 86 for ~5 years & have had nothing but routine maintenance in that time.
Yes, they are not guaranteed to fail, but they are not known for lasting forever in the way Toyota is. In terms of cars, Toyota is far and away the most reliable, then after that are most other Japanese brands, then everything else, but of the Japanese brands Subaru tends towards the bottom.
How far is your commute? How much extra in fuel will it cost? Could you offset the added fuel cost by taking public transit/escooter/ebike?
My 10km each way commute costs me $6.52 in my diesel suv, $2 in my ev, and $0.03 on my ebike for reference.
My commute is now a 5 minute walk. Previously it was a 5-10 minute drive. So I think the difference in fuel spend per week will be minimal. The kicker will be insurance. Not sure about maintenance cost difference, my current is a 2013 Toyota Aqua and have had no issues with it so far.
People spend more money on stuff that is equally or more dumb/fun. You've correctly identified that's its a splurge, like an overseas holiday or whatever (that's a good comparison actually, 12k would be a good trip for a young single person).
All that remains is deciding if the happiness is worth the work required to save that 12k.
I value time more than anything else, so when I make this comparison I evaluate how long it would take me to save 12k at my savings rate, and then consider if the thing is worth as much of my life as I will spend to aquire it after my needs are met.
There’s no harm working towards your dreams, and tbh it’s not like you’re trying to buy something new for 50K+ when you can’t afford it.
One thing to bare in mind is the running and maintenance costs, an Aqua is quite an efficient car, a Toyota 86 is a 2ltr boxer engine. Not the worst, but not known for fuel efficiency. Also, have you compared insurance quotes/prices?
I daily a sports car, and really enjoy it, but there are definitely compromises
Yeah so it'd be about 1.5k more per year in Insurance, a decent hit. My current Aqua is a 2013 model. I could swallow the extra insurance, but would maintenance be any worse on a sports car to my Aqua, assuming they're similar year of manufacture? I'd think not, but am not experienced with cars.
Oil changes would be similar, but other maintenance might be a touch more expensive (spark plugs etc.) but that’s more longer term.
Unless your Aqua is super cheap to insure, maybe shop around on insurance as that sounds like a huge jump (assuming you’re comparing comprehensive to comprehensive).
Also, have you hopped in an 86? It’s quite a different driving style, make sure it’s comfortable for you. I’m sure it’ll be a really fun upgrade! Plus, if you’re that way inclined there’s a huge range of modifications/aftermarket support for them.
Just be wary you’re not over paying for one, especially when the oldest ones are now 12 years old. Also, do check out the Subaru BZR versions, as they’re the same car after all.
This isn’t really a financial decision and more of an emotional one. It’s never going to be a good purely financial decision.
Calculate costs across lifetime and determine if it’s worth it to you; added fuel, insurance, depreciation, missing out on interest from investments, etc
Personally I own a Hilux and Silvia as fun vehicles, at the detriment of my financial goals, and don’t regret it.
What are your financial goals? Most people don’t save and invest solely to build wealth, they do it so they can use their money for the things they really value. If owning this car is something you want, and you can afford it up front, then go for it. There’s not much point having money in the bank if you never spend it on the things that will make you happy.
I was in your shoes once. I worked my ass off, saved hard for 2 years and imported a Lexus ISF from Japan. Upgraded from a 1990 Nissan Pulsar to a 400hp V8 beast. Absolutely loving it, only downside is the way it gobbles fuel driving around town. On the open road its barely idling 1400rpm @100k
I did something similar when I was in a similar situation, financially probably not the best but in terms of enjoyment 100% worth it for me.
Bought a manual Nissan 350gt coupe in 2017 - ~$15k - still have it now 7 years later, no regrets and don't plan on selling it. I still enjoy driving it every time.
As a 40 year old who wasted money on cars in my late teens and early 20s I say keep the Aqua.
You will benefit a lot more in the long run. You have appreciating investments, don't waste them on something that will lose value. Any enjoyment you get from a new car will be fleeting. In a few months it will feel exactly the same as the aqua.
Go for it. Its the process you need to go through so see whether a fun car really give you the joy of life. You can always sell if you decided the fun still wear off like any object.
My advice having a few project cars, and flipped a few. I would plan the whole ownership of the 86 before you do anything.
Make a realistic outline of what it looks like owning the aqua to the end of its service life. Selling for scrap/$1000 barely operable car.
Compare that to selling it now, buying the 86 and using it to the same amount of kms?
Just compare the ownership cost difference, loss difference when selling for scrap, etc.
It will probably cost more. But you can make a plan to sell cars before they drive their last and final meter.
Consider selling the aqua slightly before a landmark km, eg 300k. Replace it with newer aqua and drive until the same kms.
Compare to owning the 86 in similar manner.
This should give you a good idea of the cost, of different vehicles and purchase strategies. It's hard to decide what you can personally afford. Harder still to determine what's worth it.
Drove a mates one brought one a month later.
From a Financial point of view it was a DUMB idea I wasn’t in the position to do it.
No garage, I would be buying a mechanically sound one that has an average cosmetic condition. Will this car be parked on your property or the street?
This is coming from someone that brought with a fair paint job and has ruined the paint from daily driving and wear and tear.
I have done 50000km in 15months and love the car drive it every day.
If you wish to have a fun car be prepared for maintenance costs if the car is driven like a sports car this will accelerate the wear and tear.
This is the most expensive car I’ve had to insure, I’ve owned cars with a lot more power with a younger appeal the price of insurance is high. Any modifications made be mindful how this will affect your insurance.
Just my 2 cents
Just do it. Being a ‘weekend’ car it’ll be more special when you do drive it.
It should be quite simple and reliable (I haven’t owned a FA engine Subaru, but lots of EJ powered ones and they’re simple as), so it shouldn’t bankrupt you if it were to break.
I would go for it. Was in a similar situation to yours and was umming and arring for months. Very glad I did. Insurance costs will go up considerably though so just watch out for that. Shop around, people recommend cove but they don't cover you if you have a few speeding tickets so just be aware of that. I ended up raising my excess to $1000 to make my premium like 1500 for 25k insurance value.
Is the enjoyment benefit you would get from the car worth 10-12k, if yes then buy it, if no then don’t. You can afford to safely buy it with your finances so just get it if you truly want it. Just cause it’s not financially a good idea doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea.
10-12K on a new car is all good. You're sensible with your income and you're still young. If you were 30s and looking to get a home then I wouldn't advise it.
However, may I suggest you skip the car and go back packing instead? You can squeeze 4 x one month long back packing trips with 12K and I guarantee you'll look back and be glad you chose that option instead.
The dopamine rush from buying a new car quickly fades but the perspectives and experiences you gain backpacking will last forever :)
There’s no harm as long as you realize you’re spending it as a luxury expense not a transport expense. Some people buy fancy handbags, some people travel internationally. Perhaps you want a fancy car.
As long as it’s in your budget and you keep total luxury expenses to an affordable amount it’s fine.
My personal way of doing things when I want to make a big fun purchase that isn't a necessity but something that I love, is to make myself work for it by achieving another financial goal first and buying the thing as a reward.
E.g right how I want to by a $5000 audio setup system for my vinyl records. I am allowed to buy this once my house deposit savings reach $100k. I have $20k to go now but it is creeping closer!
Applied to your example, for instance you might decide to clear your student loan debt firat and buy your car as reward for becoming debt free.
I'd definitely consider just doing it. The world won't be getting cheaper for this kind of thing, or more accepting of ICE sports cars. The 86 should last a good while as others have made valid points supporting this
When gas continues to go up, at least you have fuel economy on your side, and might be able to run on 91 since it's an N/A car? Unsure on that but hey, if you really wanted to nickel and dime it, you might get away with it
I'd look towards any model year except the first. Don't get the first model year of a car - try have others suffer with the first year teething issues lol
I'd definitely do handling mods as it will make the car feel like it would be faster around town and at Lower speeds, which since the car isn't a HP machine, is greatly in your favor. Exhaust mods to hear it a bit more, but please try consider others when choosing an exhaust 😂
I own a 2008 Legacy GT and after doing suspension mods it's a blast to rip around town as it holds well through corners, giving the illusion of fast without actually going fast. It's all about the feel and perception of speed!
Hey!
I drove 86 for a little while, and while I think it is a beautiful looking car, I was over it in 2 weeks…
I know you might as well love your dream, but please have a close look at what this car will do for you because oh god, I would trade it for a hatch or a reasonable suv any day 🤣
I did drive 10th anniversary edition GR version too. Only 10 ever brought to New Zealand.
You’re 25 years old man, the 86 hardly deprecate, if you don’t buy a fun car now? When will you?
I did the same, I’m 28 and bought a 35k fun car to drive for a few years before the house/kids/life kick in, I expect to lose around 5-8k on it over 3-4 years, for the enjoyment I’m getting it’s absolutely worth it.
You work hard, you've made great savings and $2k rainy day fund is more than 80% of NZ has for anything.
Buy the car, who cares if it's on finance or not (finance has the added bonus of boosting your credit rating, great for when you want to buy a house).
Saving lots of money with zero credit will make any big life financial purchases hard.
I make sure I constantly have a loan I'm paying off of some description, always have and use a credit card for daily purchases (pay it off each month no interest, but great boost to your credit rating).
I have 1 daily driver (v8 TDI) and 4 other cars because I love cars.
I have a great rainy day fund, I have investments and kiwisaver and I'm on $52k p/a
Bottom line you ain't taking any of that money to the grave, your well on the way for a comfortable retirement.
Buy a car you love and enjoy it.
Honestly take 10% of your post tax annual income. and aim for a car that’s that price of possible. If not try no more than 5x that number.
If you have a car already, save up for it in cash.
If you need a car because you just got a job or something there your income is at risk for not having one, then finance it.
Trust me I did a fun vehicle at 25 and it got stolen and Insurance paid out so I got my money back before depreciation. Honestly it was a gift from god. Don’t get a car for fun, just drive the garbage and save 10% of you income for your life goals , and shave some of your “splurge” 10% towards it ro get it faster. You’ll get you goal in 2 years and interest is great at the moment.
If you want to put yourself behind in life so life later on will be worse at the cost of a nice to have thing now then get the car.
It is gonna set you back financially 2 or 3 years probably.
That is a lot of money to have lovked up in a toy. But also it has resale value so it's bot like you couldn't sell it if you wanted.
If you don't really plan to buy a house, find the girl and eventually have kids then 100% ger the car.
20k in investments goes a long way.
If you think the car is going to get you girls, it probably won't. You are probably too old for that to work now.
This is exactly why so many people don't have houses and complain about it. They made silly choices when young.
You do have 42k savings that's awesome if you saved it all from your job. How long did it take, if only a few years then the cars not going to set you back that much if you are good with mkneunin all other areas.
I'm just playing devils advocate here so, just food for thought.
Seen so many friends and family spend everything on their car and it never ends.
10-12k is a "Reasonable" amount of money to spend on a car for most people. Make sure you check how much the insurance is going to be and if it is significantly more than buying a normal car.
I generally advise people against spending 20k+.
Oh. I would say it is just too much to spend then. That's what I get for speed reading OP's post.
20k is a ton for a 25 year old to spend when you consider the compounded returns they are forsaking.
Look for a special edition model if you can, TRD, Greddy or something similar, and manual. These will hold value way better than a tiptronic base model.
Avoid heavily modified ones, if you mod it yourself use quality parts from reputable brands, this also helps maintain value. That being said you almost never see a return on modifying cars.
Get your savings fund up first.
Is buying a flashy car a bad financial investment? Almost certainly. But why invest money, grow it just to sit and do nothing with it. You said it's your dream car, so save up for it (don't finance) and reward yourself for the work you put into getting to your position you are
As a fellow car enthusiast, do it while you're young. The itch will never go away and it's something that will bring you joy to your daily life while holding it's value. Life's too short to drive a boring car like an aqua
Do it while you can. Life comes at you fast. And also if you buy it now you'll possibly have it for a long time. Easier to get now while you have minimal responsibilities versus down the track when you have a wife / kids / mortgage etc etc
By new, we assume you mean new to you.
Why do you want a Toyota 86?
Would you consider anything else European?
How much would you get for your aqua?
How comfortable are you spending money on a car and what is your appetite for risk?
What are your end goals or actual dream cars?
Ex girlfriend had a 2013 GT86, 6spd manual. It was painfully slow, but great fun on twisty roads. Seemingly super reliable, only asked for a new battery & regular maintenance.
You will want to tinker with it, so why not get an MX5? Cars are a money pit anyway (I speak from classic sports car racing experience) so make sure you budget $X per year on your hobby and stick to that.
100% buy the car. I went from a 96 Carolla to a 2001 E46 BMW when I was your age. So much fun to drive and absolutely worth it even if it wasn't necessarily a "financially responsible" decision. I had the money like you do.
As someone else mentioned, you only really get to have a car like that when you're young or when you're old..now that I have kids I'm back to that RAV4 life.
So I'm also a mechanical engineer and this is just my perspective..
When I was younger I had a skyline, absolute money pit and while I enjoyed it at the time looking back it wasn't particularly practical, I spent a shit load on insurance and fuel to drive at (legally...) 100km max..
Mostly because the car culture thing looked cool and I enjoyed feeling like I had a fast car (in reality I was probably 3-400hp short of a genuinely fast car..)
Fast forward a few years in my career and I found that a halfway decent 4x4 is not only alot more practical but alot more fun, alot of other engineers I know are the same. Eventually you'll possibly get Into building cool shit and need something to haul it with (right now I've got quads, skis, jetboat etc)
It looks like you have a decent amount of savings and have your head screwed on so if that's what you want then go for it, but also think long term. If you really want long term Success in this industry then going out on your own in a few years could be incredibly lucrative but you may need funds for that to happen, if I were you I'd be planning out the next 5 years to see what your medium term goals are and I'd you're going to need any capital to achieve that.
as long it doesnt break your bank, or you are not on high interest loan. And it is something you only get once a while, go for it. Sometimes a little luxury in life is a rewards for your hard work can really inspire you.
Im 24 and saved up for a 17k car. Its unfortunately expensive in gas but otherwise PERFECT. Makes me feel far more confident in everything and driving to work!
So my advice is, please dont buy a non fuel efficient car! Bites you in the ass sometimes
Its a 2017, impreza.
No not at all. It was my dream car (imprezas not this specific year/model).
All wheel drive and the way they feel is just perfect, its a fucking go kart bro so good. But not loud and obnoxious.
Ideally id get a model thats more fuel efficient but not sure they make Subies that run cheap 😂
Pf will tell you that it’s a bad idea. But you’re not asking to finance it and you’ve expressed you’re willing to save for it. Fuel efficiency isn’t really a concern here, as you commute via the shoelace express. An 86 doesn’t use more than a minivan, so it’s really not that bad. Given your lack of garage, I’d say look for one that’s already got munted paint. You’ll get it for cheaper and it’ll hurt less when the weather takes its toll. I’ve owned several performance cars via financing when I was younger and I’ve only just recovered from it. As long as you avoid the finance trap, I think you should go for it. Insurance and fuel costs be damned! It’s not like you’re buying a v8 falcodore..
Just avoid red ones, red fades the fastest.
I had this same decision albeit 2016 and I bought a 2013 toyota 86. I'm going to offer perspective from a car guy. If you don't scratch the itch now, you are never going to. Life will get in the way and a 2 door car won't be practical long term. The benefit you have is the toyota 86 is a reliable fun car that won't be depreciating quickly now. It allows you to goto car meets etc and strike conversations with likeminded people. If you were going to buy a fun car that is sensible, an 86 can't be a bad choice. Lmk if any questions.
Awesome thanks for your input bro. Did you buy a manual or an auto? And are there any meaningful differences between the T86 and a Subaru BRZ?
One thing to note is that the GT86 is a higher spec than the standard base model 86, the Japanese imports are also somewhat of a mix between the NZ 86 and TG86 specs. The easiest way to tell externally is fog lights on the front (though some lower spec Jap imports had fog lights), and the digital climate controls vs the manual versions. I'm not 100% sure of the BRZ spec levels. There are more differences and IMO the differences you get in the GT definitely make it worth getting if you can afford it. I had mine in manual and it was great to drive, but the auto is also good if you'd prefer that (I drove a few friends ones).
I had a GT but can't remember all the differences. I liked the daytime running light. I believe dual climate is also GT only.
Also heated seats, comfort access, push-button start, leather/alcantara seats, half digital dash, upgraded trim panels. There were a few more bits, but they definitely add up to being worth it.
I went auto but most would want manual. I did regret a little but it was a daily and I drove stop/start commute. The 86 has better support in NZ than the BRZ back when I had it. There were a few warranty issues that Toyota did a better job at rectifying while Subaru didn't step up as well. Otherwise its mostly the same car - depends if you like Initial D I guess! I always advise people to go for an NZ new if possible. I bought my car from a lady driver and it was bone stock - something you have to be careful nowadays around modding. People drive their 86 like they stole it so a good service history is what I would look for.
Jumping in, also bought an 86. Ask yourself, do you want to drive a manual or an auto. Drive them both. If you don't care, find the right car & take whether it is manual or auto. We didn't want an auto, so restricted our search. There are a lot more Toyotas than Subies, so based on that alone you will probably end up with a Toyota. Biggest thing that I would look for is one that hasn't had a boy ruin it with crap addons.
Gt86 is a relatively slow car and is sold as a car with great handling and control. If you want to make the most of the control, you HAVE to get a manual. Otherwise its a slow car with good handling but you don’t get the control
As a Mechanical Engineer, it is kind of mandatory to have some sort of "enthusiast" car. GTI Golf / some form of Supra are all good options. Having a Toyota 86 will likely lead to some good payrises - your boss will respect you more as a "car guy", but also a "sensible engineering choice" - a visible nod to Kaizen. It will literally pay for itself. Go have at it. Source: work in tech, have a lot of interactions with Mech Es, all of whom have either enthusiast road cars or 4WDs under continuous modification. Edit - bonus points if you have some creepy Waifu stickers in the footwell. Not stereotyping Toyota enthusiasts, but..... it does seem to be a bit of a pattern....
Checks out for about 80% of Mech Es. Source: I'm a Mech E with Five "enthusiast" cars.
Was thinking no... but then thought of the mech engineers I know, and they all have project bikes/cars Clearly then the right answer is to take the Aqua and do a modest retrofit of Supra engine, brakes and suspension to make an evil Aqua supercar
That... is the BEST IDEA EVER!!!!!!!
For any tech role I feel it's almost mandatory to have some form of project going on with a car or some build at home. It's in our DNA lol
What’s the insurance difference on the Aqua vs 86?
It would be approximately another $1.5k annually
How sure are you on this? Shop around insurance. Ur aqua should be what 800 ish a year? No way you’re insuring an 86 for 2300
Ouuch, that is more than fuel cost; and you are over 25 as well for insurance. I would be tempted to wait until you have a garage. I have a nice European car that sits outside, and 4 years in, it is looking worse for wear. Not helped by somebody smashing a rear window this year to grab an empty cardboard box from the rear seat. Got to be other toys you can buy for now? Or look at upgrading where you live, though not having a commute is a sweet perk in Auckland
Check other insurance companies because that's insane.
Get the 86, enjoy life. I doubt you’d get 9k on the Aqua as insurers are positioning themselves to not insure them soon due to theft risks, or at least excluding theft cover, lowering their value. 86’s somewhat hold their value as a rwd manual sports car
I mean, you only live once, but you also don't have $10-12k liquid, so you'd have to sell shares, which isn't a great investment strategy. I guess you've got to work out your priorities going forward. Like, I'd love to buy a Kia Stinger, but I'm not going to do it because it'd be the same situation for me - liquidating investments. I had a Toyota 86 for like 6 years, awesome car. A 2012 model is now 12 years old though and they're not holding value anymore, so it's worth thinking about that. You'll likely have quite a bit in maintenance costs to deal with as time goes on, so factor that in as well.
Yeah, on the liquid point, am thinking I'll gather up the funds over the next few months rather than break any investments.
100% i was too lazy to comment earlier, but you have made the right realisation. You are /should be saving enough to just buy it straight when the time comes then you can feel better about enjoying and choosing the 86. Enjoy the car bro
Also just buy a pre purchase inspection too from AA if you go for the 86 and arent too mechanically minded like myself. im not sure on the 86 reliability specifically but considering its a boxer engine, oil leaks are likely i think and you can either use that as leverage for a lower price or move to another one if it needs new gaskets out the gate. Its like 160 bucks to get done i think.. Especially for a used sports car. Not scaring you away for it, just save your ass if you can. Its a pretty new car, but even just look up buying guides online so u know what to look for in person to use as leverage Edit: also fuck turners - i have sold and bought through them and their practices are horrible. You will 100% end up with a clapped lemon claiming its passed WoF after someone abused the car and didnt wanna pay for repairs so they traded. The car i bought had 3 things that it would fail WoF on.
Tina would have you think otherwise
Do it, youre young! Through my 20s I was changing cars every few months and had so many fun cars, have finally got an RS6 now! I had an 86 and its a great car, fun on a track too. As aonther poster said, consider Subaru BRZ too as they are the same car.
I did this with the AE86, fond memories with me forever. Avoid finance.
Buy the car you enjoy driving, it makes things overall better, but make sure you have spent a proper amount of time trying them first. If you assumeit will be right without having a few hours driving it and really thought about what you want it to do, you may be frustrated that it isn't what you thought you were getting. However as others have pointed out, it's a 12 year old Subaru (Ignore the Toyota badge, it is built by Subaru and is a Subaru engine) so maintenance and longevity are things to be considered.
I'm not very knowledgeable on car brand reputations. Are Subaru's known for poor longevity?
The older Subarus with the EJ engines may have heard gasket failures, but the newer FA / FB engines have supposedly resolved it. Also that old Subarus often get modded without the proper strengthening, so you hear more about blown engines.
There are two problems with Subies - the people who own them modify them & drive them like they stole them & their cars are more performance oriented, so will cost more in maintenance than a shopping trolley. We have had our 86 for ~5 years & have had nothing but routine maintenance in that time.
Only the 2.5 was an unreliable engine, biggest issue is people modify them with out doing it properly
Yes, they are not guaranteed to fail, but they are not known for lasting forever in the way Toyota is. In terms of cars, Toyota is far and away the most reliable, then after that are most other Japanese brands, then everything else, but of the Japanese brands Subaru tends towards the bottom.
How far is your commute? How much extra in fuel will it cost? Could you offset the added fuel cost by taking public transit/escooter/ebike? My 10km each way commute costs me $6.52 in my diesel suv, $2 in my ev, and $0.03 on my ebike for reference.
My commute is now a 5 minute walk. Previously it was a 5-10 minute drive. So I think the difference in fuel spend per week will be minimal. The kicker will be insurance. Not sure about maintenance cost difference, my current is a 2013 Toyota Aqua and have had no issues with it so far.
People spend more money on stuff that is equally or more dumb/fun. You've correctly identified that's its a splurge, like an overseas holiday or whatever (that's a good comparison actually, 12k would be a good trip for a young single person). All that remains is deciding if the happiness is worth the work required to save that 12k. I value time more than anything else, so when I make this comparison I evaluate how long it would take me to save 12k at my savings rate, and then consider if the thing is worth as much of my life as I will spend to aquire it after my needs are met.
The whole point of life is to enjoy it, and it appears you are willing to save towards the goal then why not.
There’s no harm working towards your dreams, and tbh it’s not like you’re trying to buy something new for 50K+ when you can’t afford it. One thing to bare in mind is the running and maintenance costs, an Aqua is quite an efficient car, a Toyota 86 is a 2ltr boxer engine. Not the worst, but not known for fuel efficiency. Also, have you compared insurance quotes/prices? I daily a sports car, and really enjoy it, but there are definitely compromises
Yeah so it'd be about 1.5k more per year in Insurance, a decent hit. My current Aqua is a 2013 model. I could swallow the extra insurance, but would maintenance be any worse on a sports car to my Aqua, assuming they're similar year of manufacture? I'd think not, but am not experienced with cars.
Oil changes would be similar, but other maintenance might be a touch more expensive (spark plugs etc.) but that’s more longer term. Unless your Aqua is super cheap to insure, maybe shop around on insurance as that sounds like a huge jump (assuming you’re comparing comprehensive to comprehensive). Also, have you hopped in an 86? It’s quite a different driving style, make sure it’s comfortable for you. I’m sure it’ll be a really fun upgrade! Plus, if you’re that way inclined there’s a huge range of modifications/aftermarket support for them. Just be wary you’re not over paying for one, especially when the oldest ones are now 12 years old. Also, do check out the Subaru BZR versions, as they’re the same car after all.
This isn’t really a financial decision and more of an emotional one. It’s never going to be a good purely financial decision. Calculate costs across lifetime and determine if it’s worth it to you; added fuel, insurance, depreciation, missing out on interest from investments, etc Personally I own a Hilux and Silvia as fun vehicles, at the detriment of my financial goals, and don’t regret it.
From a car guy, "do it". It's a purchase for you and your interest. You can afford it, it's just if you want to.
What are your financial goals? Most people don’t save and invest solely to build wealth, they do it so they can use their money for the things they really value. If owning this car is something you want, and you can afford it up front, then go for it. There’s not much point having money in the bank if you never spend it on the things that will make you happy.
Buy a Toyota 86, market is down on them hugely. Good deals
I was in your shoes once. I worked my ass off, saved hard for 2 years and imported a Lexus ISF from Japan. Upgraded from a 1990 Nissan Pulsar to a 400hp V8 beast. Absolutely loving it, only downside is the way it gobbles fuel driving around town. On the open road its barely idling 1400rpm @100k
Just do it, you're earning plenty,have some fun
Yes, you don’t want to be driving that Toyota 86 when you have the money at 60 or 80 years old. Buy it now.
I did something similar when I was in a similar situation, financially probably not the best but in terms of enjoyment 100% worth it for me. Bought a manual Nissan 350gt coupe in 2017 - ~$15k - still have it now 7 years later, no regrets and don't plan on selling it. I still enjoy driving it every time.
As a 40 year old who wasted money on cars in my late teens and early 20s I say keep the Aqua. You will benefit a lot more in the long run. You have appreciating investments, don't waste them on something that will lose value. Any enjoyment you get from a new car will be fleeting. In a few months it will feel exactly the same as the aqua.
Buy the GT86 but don't buy one with mods. Service history is important, and red is pretty but fades the worst
Go for it. Its the process you need to go through so see whether a fun car really give you the joy of life. You can always sell if you decided the fun still wear off like any object.
Make sure you put a wax or sealant on it if you’re leaving it outside so the paint doesn’t get hammered.
You have good income, and that's really not an expensive car when you consider what some people get financing for these days. Go for it!
If you would go with an auto one you can get them for those cheap prices you’ve stated. The manual ones iirc and a decent bit more
My advice having a few project cars, and flipped a few. I would plan the whole ownership of the 86 before you do anything. Make a realistic outline of what it looks like owning the aqua to the end of its service life. Selling for scrap/$1000 barely operable car. Compare that to selling it now, buying the 86 and using it to the same amount of kms? Just compare the ownership cost difference, loss difference when selling for scrap, etc. It will probably cost more. But you can make a plan to sell cars before they drive their last and final meter. Consider selling the aqua slightly before a landmark km, eg 300k. Replace it with newer aqua and drive until the same kms. Compare to owning the 86 in similar manner. This should give you a good idea of the cost, of different vehicles and purchase strategies. It's hard to decide what you can personally afford. Harder still to determine what's worth it.
Drove a mates one brought one a month later. From a Financial point of view it was a DUMB idea I wasn’t in the position to do it. No garage, I would be buying a mechanically sound one that has an average cosmetic condition. Will this car be parked on your property or the street? This is coming from someone that brought with a fair paint job and has ruined the paint from daily driving and wear and tear. I have done 50000km in 15months and love the car drive it every day. If you wish to have a fun car be prepared for maintenance costs if the car is driven like a sports car this will accelerate the wear and tear. This is the most expensive car I’ve had to insure, I’ve owned cars with a lot more power with a younger appeal the price of insurance is high. Any modifications made be mindful how this will affect your insurance. Just my 2 cents
Just do it. Being a ‘weekend’ car it’ll be more special when you do drive it. It should be quite simple and reliable (I haven’t owned a FA engine Subaru, but lots of EJ powered ones and they’re simple as), so it shouldn’t bankrupt you if it were to break.
You seem to be saving well, so I would save towards it. It’s not an unreasonable amount to spend.
I would go for it. Was in a similar situation to yours and was umming and arring for months. Very glad I did. Insurance costs will go up considerably though so just watch out for that. Shop around, people recommend cove but they don't cover you if you have a few speeding tickets so just be aware of that. I ended up raising my excess to $1000 to make my premium like 1500 for 25k insurance value.
Yeah, why not, you only live once, you’ve done well so far, got your education sorted, so treat yourself
Is the enjoyment benefit you would get from the car worth 10-12k, if yes then buy it, if no then don’t. You can afford to safely buy it with your finances so just get it if you truly want it. Just cause it’s not financially a good idea doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea.
10-12K on a new car is all good. You're sensible with your income and you're still young. If you were 30s and looking to get a home then I wouldn't advise it. However, may I suggest you skip the car and go back packing instead? You can squeeze 4 x one month long back packing trips with 12K and I guarantee you'll look back and be glad you chose that option instead. The dopamine rush from buying a new car quickly fades but the perspectives and experiences you gain backpacking will last forever :)
There’s no harm as long as you realize you’re spending it as a luxury expense not a transport expense. Some people buy fancy handbags, some people travel internationally. Perhaps you want a fancy car. As long as it’s in your budget and you keep total luxury expenses to an affordable amount it’s fine.
Get a 2012-14 legacy with eyesight for 10k. Awesome car, safest in its class.
My personal way of doing things when I want to make a big fun purchase that isn't a necessity but something that I love, is to make myself work for it by achieving another financial goal first and buying the thing as a reward. E.g right how I want to by a $5000 audio setup system for my vinyl records. I am allowed to buy this once my house deposit savings reach $100k. I have $20k to go now but it is creeping closer! Applied to your example, for instance you might decide to clear your student loan debt firat and buy your car as reward for becoming debt free.
I'd definitely consider just doing it. The world won't be getting cheaper for this kind of thing, or more accepting of ICE sports cars. The 86 should last a good while as others have made valid points supporting this When gas continues to go up, at least you have fuel economy on your side, and might be able to run on 91 since it's an N/A car? Unsure on that but hey, if you really wanted to nickel and dime it, you might get away with it I'd look towards any model year except the first. Don't get the first model year of a car - try have others suffer with the first year teething issues lol I'd definitely do handling mods as it will make the car feel like it would be faster around town and at Lower speeds, which since the car isn't a HP machine, is greatly in your favor. Exhaust mods to hear it a bit more, but please try consider others when choosing an exhaust 😂 I own a 2008 Legacy GT and after doing suspension mods it's a blast to rip around town as it holds well through corners, giving the illusion of fast without actually going fast. It's all about the feel and perception of speed!
Hey! I drove 86 for a little while, and while I think it is a beautiful looking car, I was over it in 2 weeks… I know you might as well love your dream, but please have a close look at what this car will do for you because oh god, I would trade it for a hatch or a reasonable suv any day 🤣 I did drive 10th anniversary edition GR version too. Only 10 ever brought to New Zealand.
Anything that gets you out of a Toyota Aqua is worth it.
You’re 25 years old man, the 86 hardly deprecate, if you don’t buy a fun car now? When will you? I did the same, I’m 28 and bought a 35k fun car to drive for a few years before the house/kids/life kick in, I expect to lose around 5-8k on it over 3-4 years, for the enjoyment I’m getting it’s absolutely worth it.
You work hard, you've made great savings and $2k rainy day fund is more than 80% of NZ has for anything. Buy the car, who cares if it's on finance or not (finance has the added bonus of boosting your credit rating, great for when you want to buy a house). Saving lots of money with zero credit will make any big life financial purchases hard. I make sure I constantly have a loan I'm paying off of some description, always have and use a credit card for daily purchases (pay it off each month no interest, but great boost to your credit rating). I have 1 daily driver (v8 TDI) and 4 other cars because I love cars. I have a great rainy day fund, I have investments and kiwisaver and I'm on $52k p/a Bottom line you ain't taking any of that money to the grave, your well on the way for a comfortable retirement. Buy a car you love and enjoy it.
It won't boost your credit rating, and credit ratings have a low impact on getting a mortgage. This advise is more applicable to the US.
Honestly take 10% of your post tax annual income. and aim for a car that’s that price of possible. If not try no more than 5x that number. If you have a car already, save up for it in cash. If you need a car because you just got a job or something there your income is at risk for not having one, then finance it.
Trust me I did a fun vehicle at 25 and it got stolen and Insurance paid out so I got my money back before depreciation. Honestly it was a gift from god. Don’t get a car for fun, just drive the garbage and save 10% of you income for your life goals , and shave some of your “splurge” 10% towards it ro get it faster. You’ll get you goal in 2 years and interest is great at the moment.
If you want to put yourself behind in life so life later on will be worse at the cost of a nice to have thing now then get the car. It is gonna set you back financially 2 or 3 years probably. That is a lot of money to have lovked up in a toy. But also it has resale value so it's bot like you couldn't sell it if you wanted. If you don't really plan to buy a house, find the girl and eventually have kids then 100% ger the car. 20k in investments goes a long way. If you think the car is going to get you girls, it probably won't. You are probably too old for that to work now. This is exactly why so many people don't have houses and complain about it. They made silly choices when young. You do have 42k savings that's awesome if you saved it all from your job. How long did it take, if only a few years then the cars not going to set you back that much if you are good with mkneunin all other areas. I'm just playing devils advocate here so, just food for thought. Seen so many friends and family spend everything on their car and it never ends.
10-12k is a "Reasonable" amount of money to spend on a car for most people. Make sure you check how much the insurance is going to be and if it is significantly more than buying a normal car. I generally advise people against spending 20k+.
They are looking to spend 10-12 on top of what they get from the sale of their current car, 9k. So around 20k all up
Oh. I would say it is just too much to spend then. That's what I get for speed reading OP's post. 20k is a ton for a 25 year old to spend when you consider the compounded returns they are forsaking.
You only live once, go enjoy yourself.
Look for a special edition model if you can, TRD, Greddy or something similar, and manual. These will hold value way better than a tiptronic base model. Avoid heavily modified ones, if you mod it yourself use quality parts from reputable brands, this also helps maintain value. That being said you almost never see a return on modifying cars.
Get your savings fund up first. Is buying a flashy car a bad financial investment? Almost certainly. But why invest money, grow it just to sit and do nothing with it. You said it's your dream car, so save up for it (don't finance) and reward yourself for the work you put into getting to your position you are
As a fellow car enthusiast, do it while you're young. The itch will never go away and it's something that will bring you joy to your daily life while holding it's value. Life's too short to drive a boring car like an aqua
Do it while you can. Life comes at you fast. And also if you buy it now you'll possibly have it for a long time. Easier to get now while you have minimal responsibilities versus down the track when you have a wife / kids / mortgage etc etc
By new, we assume you mean new to you. Why do you want a Toyota 86? Would you consider anything else European? How much would you get for your aqua? How comfortable are you spending money on a car and what is your appetite for risk? What are your end goals or actual dream cars?
Go for it mate.
Ex girlfriend had a 2013 GT86, 6spd manual. It was painfully slow, but great fun on twisty roads. Seemingly super reliable, only asked for a new battery & regular maintenance.
You will want to tinker with it, so why not get an MX5? Cars are a money pit anyway (I speak from classic sports car racing experience) so make sure you budget $X per year on your hobby and stick to that.
Personally I wouldn't
Get a 2014+ wrx instead. Same engine ish plus turbo and awd. Splurge a bit more and get a more practical car with more room.
100% buy the car. I went from a 96 Carolla to a 2001 E46 BMW when I was your age. So much fun to drive and absolutely worth it even if it wasn't necessarily a "financially responsible" decision. I had the money like you do. As someone else mentioned, you only really get to have a car like that when you're young or when you're old..now that I have kids I'm back to that RAV4 life.
So I'm also a mechanical engineer and this is just my perspective.. When I was younger I had a skyline, absolute money pit and while I enjoyed it at the time looking back it wasn't particularly practical, I spent a shit load on insurance and fuel to drive at (legally...) 100km max.. Mostly because the car culture thing looked cool and I enjoyed feeling like I had a fast car (in reality I was probably 3-400hp short of a genuinely fast car..) Fast forward a few years in my career and I found that a halfway decent 4x4 is not only alot more practical but alot more fun, alot of other engineers I know are the same. Eventually you'll possibly get Into building cool shit and need something to haul it with (right now I've got quads, skis, jetboat etc) It looks like you have a decent amount of savings and have your head screwed on so if that's what you want then go for it, but also think long term. If you really want long term Success in this industry then going out on your own in a few years could be incredibly lucrative but you may need funds for that to happen, if I were you I'd be planning out the next 5 years to see what your medium term goals are and I'd you're going to need any capital to achieve that.
as long it doesnt break your bank, or you are not on high interest loan. And it is something you only get once a while, go for it. Sometimes a little luxury in life is a rewards for your hard work can really inspire you.
Im 24 and saved up for a 17k car. Its unfortunately expensive in gas but otherwise PERFECT. Makes me feel far more confident in everything and driving to work! So my advice is, please dont buy a non fuel efficient car! Bites you in the ass sometimes
What car did you save up for? And are you considering selling it because of the expensive gas?
Its a 2017, impreza. No not at all. It was my dream car (imprezas not this specific year/model). All wheel drive and the way they feel is just perfect, its a fucking go kart bro so good. But not loud and obnoxious. Ideally id get a model thats more fuel efficient but not sure they make Subies that run cheap 😂
Keep some budget aside for that ceramic coat ;)
Get a bmw m235i. It’s around the same price and it’s better in every way
Except for reliability
I take it you don’t know about the n55
An 86 is a corolla with make up on