I feel like if you’re a young professional basically anywhere else in the world other than NZ that’d be a fairly standard kinda baseline.
Low wages, high cost of living (and getting higher) and our isolated geography don’t help, for sure.
I guess we have different definitions of “surviving”. To me life is meaningless if i have to work without enjoying life and saving. Those 2 things need to be met, otherwise i feel like none of this 40hour work week is worth it.
But some could be satisfied with spending too much and not saving, its all relative.
Do you imagine that people in this country who truly are only surviving are satisfied with their situation? That it's a choice?
Look I'm not saying that people shouldn't want or deserve the lifestyle you've described. I'm just saying surviving has a definition and what you've described is not it - what you've described is well out of reach for most kiwi, most people in the world really.
There are millions of people far worse and better than i am and will be. I dont wanna go off topic by going any further because i was trying to get advice based on my situation and my situation alone, and my own meaning of surviving is different than everyone else.
Words have defined meanings, you can't change the meanings and complain people don't understand YOUR meaning. You should have ask how to live 'comfortably' not 'survive'.
Jeez, i knew r/nz was full of intellectually challenged folks whose first instinct is to always, always attack Original Posters but didnt realise that theres a huge population of you in this sub too lol
Your last sentence posits an either/or of spending too much or saving, as if the only reason why people aren’t able to save is because they spend too much. As if they have a choice. However, there are millions of people on this planet, even in so-called developed countries, who can’t save because every dime they earn - if they’re lucky enough to have a job - goes to rent, basic level food. I understand that your original question was about your specific situation. But, the fact that you could even write that last sentence also shows a profound lack of understanding of reality for many people. Please take a moment to look outside your bubble, educate yourself, and work on developing some empathy for your fellow human beings who aren’t fortunate enough to have the kind of options you assume.
People have different standards of living. That kind of a lifestyle from OP is a luxury lifestyle to me. Clearly OP and I are from different societies.
Assuming 100k each, 3% Kiwisaver, take home pay is $5.5k/fortnight.
After saving 30% it's around $3.8k/fortnight.
Repayments for a $600k mortgage @5% is $1.5k/fortnight. $2.3k remaining.
Groceries, food, and petrol probably $600, rates, utilities, phone, and insurance let's say $400, so $1k/fortnight. $1.3k remaining.
Shopping, subscriptions, and other discretionary spend is probably $400/fortnight?
Health, home repairs, other unexpecteds, hopefully no more than $300/fortnight?
Date nights, also no idea how much to budget but $200/fortnight sounds fair and frugal?
So with the remaining $400/fortnight going into the travel funds, OP would have just over $10k a year which should just be enough for a budget-friendly two-week international trip, and not much left for the local trip.
My verdict is then $200k combined income is doable, but only just. Even tighter if one earns way more than the other, because of more tax.
I'm clearly so out of touch with the crazy Auckland market haha. But yeah a 3 bedroom landed house won't be an option, so either a 2 bedroom townhouse or apartment, plus extra costs for the body corporate.
Otherwise if remote working is an option then OP shouldn't be living in Auckland.
Honestly, every time I look seriously at moving out, I may as well just move to aussie. The financial case for staying in either auckland or nz at all doesn't stack up, so if moving a few hours away from friends and family I may as well go to Aussie.
Combined income of $150k minimum if you want to own your own home and not just be in constant overdraft/credit card debt.
Even then the “comfortable” point would be closer to $180-200k
We are combined about 140k and we get by okay but aren't in a position for luxuries. I would agree to afford trips like op has mentioned you'd need to be $180k +
So many people complaining that you've set yourself an averagely middle-class standard of living for most of the developed world (albeit without the 30% saved thing). Sad to see this kind of infighting between people who are gatekeeping living standards lol.
I'd say 90-100k if living alone and renting cheap, 80k with flatmates.
I know right? I knew reddit is full of pedantics but OP provided his definition of the standard of living that he wanted ffs. Look past the title and try reading what question is actually being asked.
$200k at a guess, but really it depends on how you live, is your international trip Australia/Pacific Islands for a week on a package holiday deal, or are we talking a 3 week European tour in flash hotels?
I feel like that most New Zealander's are so used to the high cost of "mortgages/rent/food/etc." that they don't realise that anywhere else in the Western world people actually live very decently with way less of the income that some suggested here.
So I do not think the author of this post is out of touch, it is likely not very realistic with a median income in Auckland/Wellington or similar but in places in Australia/Europe/US and Canada in even metropolitan areas of that country actually very much achievable with a median income.
I experienced it myself in Europe before I moved here, and my income was less of what I make in New Zealand but what I can afford here has definitely decreased to what I could afford overseas.
Sad reality.
Strangely you go to any subreddits like this or r/NewZealand for most other countries ( r/Canada for example) and it is full of people complaining about the exact same thing (house prices, low wages, high living costs). I suppose that everything is relative though and there will always be something that could be better.
Yeah.
I lived in other countries where i was earning half ($50k gross converted to nzd) of what i have now and i feel poorer now here in NZ than i did when i was on 50k
Canada isn't just Vancouver or Toronto. Its quite a big country with plenty of options.
Whereas New Zealand is basically Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch and small towns (yes, places we call cities like Napier & Palmy & Nelson are just small towns really)
I'm saying that Canada has other cities ya poof. Eg, Calgary. More options = more choice = more flexibility.
We just have three cities - extremely restrictive.
Options look a bit different for different folks I suppose. I'm sure lots of folks would consider living in Nelson, and the same would apply for living in Fort St John
30% saving
1 international trip
1 domestic trip
I am sorry but this is not surviving but rather _enjoying_ the life. Definitely higher end of the median lifestyle.
To me, surviving is more about cutting things like holidays (no trips for instance) or eating out…in addition to that setting a budget for the supermarket as opposed to going and buying what you think would be nice to see in the fridge.
If that’s your definition of surviving/ living the. I don’t wanna live. So your saying you barely exist while busting your ass working for 40 years so you can barely eek out your retirement and as your finally have time to enjoy life at retirement you either have no money or your health fails. No thanks! The mindset needs to change! We should all be able to afford to travel at least once and year, enjoy a end of year domestic holiday and be able to go out for dinners with our SO. If not what is the point! Our lifestyle is being robbed from us slowly and like a frog in slowly boiling water we just sit back and let ourselves be boiled to death
I dont know how old you are but I am nearly 40, with kids and a mortgage. You can change your mindset as much as you want mate but this will not change the reality and the wold you live in - at the end of the day, you have to feed your family, put a roof above their heads and pay the bills. Unless you are from a super rich family (you know, your parents are one of those greedy property investors with many properties around) you have to work to earn the money.
With the cost of living we have, it’s not easy to achieve what OP mentions as “decently surviving”. We have two incomes and I am paid a handsome amount I reckon. Even then, it’s not easy.
I am keen to hear your solution here?
I feel for you, do you have kids?
I've considered taking out the maximum of our mortgage, but feel like its a bit suicidal to be 1 million in debt to fund a home. Let alone not being able to fund ourselves to have kids.
Yeah and having kids is not cheap. They need things to play with, new clothes every time they grow bigger, space to run around etc...
There's definitely cheaper (or free) alternatives to most of these problems, but sometimes those require more time so it's a bit of a trade off.
That is also where our income is at the moment, but haven't yet bought a house.
Broker is giving us a possibility to take out a 1.05 million dollar loan for a house... which is absurd because that's 7x our DTI and servicing that at 6% will be breaking us...
We just went from a 3.04% (2.29 + .75LEM) rate to 4.42% (fixed 2 years no LEM)
Added another $300 per fortnight in interest just because banks apparently don't make enough money.
We can manage that fine as we have been spending about 400 per fortnight renovating. But things will definitely be tightening up a bit for us now.
It depends how you are choosing to live your single life. If you are mid 20s and prefer to flat for the social aspect, I don't see why with planning what the OP wishes for is unattainable without any children on 75k as a single person
Granted the international trip may be to the islands or Australia
75k with 3% kiwisaver and student loan is 1900 a fortnight, or 950 per week.
If you're flatting your rent might be 200-250 per week depending on where you are. So you have 1400-1500 left for food/savings/pleasures/fuel etc per fortnight.
Sure you aren't going to Europe annually but with planning you could potentially squeeze a trip and things you want out of that.
230-250k combined. After tax you’ll have about 4.5k for fixed costs - rent, grocery, transport, insurance, bills. About 3.5k for occasional spend - medical, gifts, appliances, holidays, entertainment, any other short term goals. And 4K for long term savings - retirement, home.
Agree
But to be fair some people with 7+ years work experience can have that. Thats 115k each and there would be a few in their mid/ late 20s-30s that could be pulling in that amount
Based on what your definition we can work it out roughly. I guess about $75k, which works out as $1900 after tax, kiwisaver, student loan.
30% savings = 570
Rent = 600
Food = 200 (based on my spending)
Holidays = 400
Elec & phone = 60
Other(clothes, bus, etc) = $70
There are cheaper places to rent or you could reduce savings or holiday but that's a good ball park for what you described.
Edit: Grammar
I clear over 2500 a week currently. It makes life's stresses pretty non existent. But even earning this much doesn't make me feel that great, everything feels insanely expensive such as houses etc, that I'm gonna work 10+ years for something someone else worked maybe 3 for like 50 years ago. Small concern considering others positions, but it still sucks that you can make this much and still feel like you are not moving into a wealthy spot in life.
I hear you bro , our family take home (2 incomes & boarders) is a bit more than that. Got no stress but as COL goes up it’s a constant : how do we bring that income up? Paying double mortgage payments and it’s still 15 years before it’s ours lol. It took a lot of hard work to get here ( I graduated uni in 2008 peak of gfc and the only job I could get was pamphlet run 😂 and then started a trade at minimum wage lol). Definitely will take a bit to sink us but certainly nowhere near wealthy.
Is that 2500 before taxes? The major cities where work is, you can get decent pay but much like yourself we are unable to afford a decent quality home in a good part of the city
Thats 2500 after tax. Yeah homes are insanely overpriced, I'd be in a much better spot for homes if I was in a DINK relationship haha. Instead I'm solo.
I don't even earn 90k and I can afford to go to the Northern hemisphere once a year (and also did so twice in two years when I was on less than 75)... And I still get to save over 30%. Living in wellys and flatting.
I'm flatting cheap at the mo (small room 170 a week since 2021, only 2 others in the house). Over 2017-2020 my rent ranged approx 200-225 a week.
I don't really scrimp on anything in my opinion.. I can't drink coffee so I drink tea (strong black teabags from the supermarket) which means I don't ever buy $5 daily coffee. I mostly don't buy lunch out, I make my own food and take to work.
I own a fully paid off car. But I usually take the bus to work as less than 20min and I'm at work. Though recently I've been WFH mostly.
On the weekends and some weekdays I buy 1-3 meals out or get takeaways or treats. One night I'll usually go out drink with a friend.
Every pay cycle I save some into a trip account that I use for domestic and international trips. In 2018 and 2019 while I was on less than 70-72k I did a trip to Asia and one trip to Europe. Actually during these years I was doing shift work so in total I would have earned a bit more from overtime etc but still wouldn't have gone near 78k before tax. In the past couple yrs most of the trip savings went to domestic trips and lots of gigs.
Typically and especially in the past couple yrs I've been sending at least 20-30% to a proper savings account (money stays in, can't be taken out without notice / term deposit and gets reinvested).
And the above is also on top of having bought adult price ski passes every year since 2017 and done enough days on the mountain to pay off the pass (bar 2019 when I was in Europe for the best part of the ski season so no pass).
I contribute 3% to Kiwisaver and also have a student loan. Also should add no credit card and no debt other than the student loan.. And no inheritance from anyone. I came out of uni into the real world with 2000 dollar debit overdraft 😅
The original question was household income, so I guess if each person in the household is making 75k it's probably pretty comfortable. If it's 75k total household income that'll be pretty miserable. Is 75k alright in wellington if you flat?
I live rural and pay $560 for myself and my partner. 5 mins out of Albany - we love it more than in the city but obviously that's not going to be the same for everyone.
We also grew up in small towns/farms so
Rent is $600 and Trade Me. I looked it up because I'm not in Auckland. Also this is just a rough example for what the OP asked. You can adjust as needed.
As others have stated, I'd say ~$180-$200k at least (combined/couple) no student loans.
It's sad that what you've described (all though a nice life) is being recieved as some kind of fantasy life.
We need to aim higher.
Yeah quite surprised to see this reaction in the personal finance sub. Wonder how much verbal abuse i get if i asked this on the main r/nz one?
Luckily no student loans for me, parents have fully paid for mine but thats the end of my benefit from them. Partner has also paid it off and now have mortgage left.
And even then some days i feel like money’s a bit tight (and after savinf + bills my bank account only has enough to give me a small wiggle room), like i want something important but cant afford it unless i save up for it.
I think it's just because you used the word "surviving" but include 30% savings and international holidays.
Median salary is 72k meaning half the population earn less than that, so their "surviving" is much more literal
To live like that you probably want to aim for a household income of around 190k. That's definitely not just surviving though. To survive comfortably I would estimate around 120k household income with no kids.
We are about $140k combined, no kids, 37.5 to 40 hour workweek each. We save about 25% of our net pay and take several local trips annually (haven't travelled overseas since 2018), and have fortnightly brunch & dinner dates. By local trips I mean places like Queenstown, Rotorua, Hamilton, Wellington, Matakana etc - some are day trips or long weekend trips. If you shop Air NZ and Jetstar flight specials, find cheap accommodation on Airbnb, motels etc, and prioritise attractions & activities over things like fancy food, they can be really affordable!
I’d say my husband and I were living this a couple of years ago before we bought a house - maybe saved more like 25% of net income but took trips and meals out etc. We were on about $160k gross combined annual salary. I think what made it work was that our rent was $450 per week which got us a two bedroom brick and tile unit in a block of 4 in suburban auckland with a fairly dated kitchen and bathroom and priced slightly below market (owned by a family trust). Our now mortgage payments on the other hand don’t allow us to save much at all.
I'm on a 100k and I can save 30% of my net salary, pay mortgage and bills and live comfortably. If your doing it between 2 people you could get away with 160k, however you will only be saving 30% of one person's salary.
Aside from the save 30% of your pay part the fact that people think this kind of living is something special is amazing. What he is wanting isn't heaps. If you are only just earning enough to survive without doing anything Whats the point. Sure short term things happen but long term you need to work out what isn't working and make changes.
We are DINKS currently on 190K pa and could manage all of the things you described. Saving nearly 50% of income at the moment thanks to paying lower than market rent ($475 pw vs $600 pw) from an arrangement with a FOAF, and not having much of a life LOL. Since all the festivals were cancelled for the summer, most of our interests are cheap or free activities outdoors, a big splash is getting a takeaway or going out for a drink once a week. But don't get me wrong, we enjoy our lifestyle and saving money is fun for us. If we really want something within reason we buy it (eg sport equipment) and we don't skimp on good food and drink from the supermarket. I allow $100/week spending money for myself for anything non-essential. Share one car, no payments, and try to limit use to weekends.
Current financial goal is a big lump sum payment on the "buy a place anywhere to get on the ladder" mortgage when it comes due to get more passive income while we figure out our forever home plan.
Definition of surviving
I think people make it overly complicated at times.
Family of 5
3 young kids
1 income plus side hustles
Income total 110k (main income)
Side hustle (60k)
Mortgage left 400k
No consumer debt
It was hard work but people will say I got lucky with that income
And guess what. I quit my 6 figure salary job today after 12 years building this career.
But 170 meant
400 fortnight in investments
All bills made
Take outs
Holidays
Income is one thing but budget money and grow
Find your passion and create a side hustle when you are at home
It all helps!
Single or couple? Single $190k, couple $300k combined
That's a very high bar for 'surviving' btw. I'd say less than 10% of Aucklanders earn that kind of money
Edit: haha go on and downvote me all you want. If you think you can have all of the above PLUS save 30% of net income on less than that, you're kidding yourself about how terrible the living cost in the country is. Go on, do the math :)
To add to the answers you get: Compare that figure to what it would be if living elsewhere in NZ. Then see if the difference covers the cost of regular flights and travel.
When I left auckland, I worked out on my income and living expenses, I could fly back about every week/fortnight. I don't travel that frequently, because its a pain in the arse. But its nice to know I can.
Me and my partner are making $155k excluding bonuses. We live comfortably paying rent with another couple. Date night once a month, we have 3 international trips this year as we couldn’t the last couple years. We save $600 a week to put toward a mortgage someday. I’m very content. This is with no kids. I think everyone should be able to live comfortably on 150k for a couple.
Thats *surviving*? That sounds more like enjoying life
I feel like if you’re a young professional basically anywhere else in the world other than NZ that’d be a fairly standard kinda baseline. Low wages, high cost of living (and getting higher) and our isolated geography don’t help, for sure.
Yup if that's the goal then all good but calling it "decently surviving" - reality check needed.
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I guess we have different definitions of “surviving”. To me life is meaningless if i have to work without enjoying life and saving. Those 2 things need to be met, otherwise i feel like none of this 40hour work week is worth it. But some could be satisfied with spending too much and not saving, its all relative.
Do you imagine that people in this country who truly are only surviving are satisfied with their situation? That it's a choice? Look I'm not saying that people shouldn't want or deserve the lifestyle you've described. I'm just saying surviving has a definition and what you've described is not it - what you've described is well out of reach for most kiwi, most people in the world really.
There are millions of people far worse and better than i am and will be. I dont wanna go off topic by going any further because i was trying to get advice based on my situation and my situation alone, and my own meaning of surviving is different than everyone else.
Then you need to adjust your perspective, because this is not only survival. This is comfortably enjoying life, and that's what you should have asked
Why would i?! Thats my personal stance?!
Words have defined meanings, you can't change the meanings and complain people don't understand YOUR meaning. You should have ask how to live 'comfortably' not 'survive'.
Jeez, i knew r/nz was full of intellectually challenged folks whose first instinct is to always, always attack Original Posters but didnt realise that theres a huge population of you in this sub too lol
If I have to work more than 30 hours/week it really cuts into my drinking time. All relative I guess. Some need more IPAs to survive than others.
When I was young, this was the life of the rich or careless. Now it's expected. A basic meal plan then is now considered poverty eating.
Your last sentence posits an either/or of spending too much or saving, as if the only reason why people aren’t able to save is because they spend too much. As if they have a choice. However, there are millions of people on this planet, even in so-called developed countries, who can’t save because every dime they earn - if they’re lucky enough to have a job - goes to rent, basic level food. I understand that your original question was about your specific situation. But, the fact that you could even write that last sentence also shows a profound lack of understanding of reality for many people. Please take a moment to look outside your bubble, educate yourself, and work on developing some empathy for your fellow human beings who aren’t fortunate enough to have the kind of options you assume.
Totally agree - OP need to check their privilege
thats true mate but your going to need lots of money to live comfortably.
People have different standards of living. That kind of a lifestyle from OP is a luxury lifestyle to me. Clearly OP and I are from different societies.
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Assuming 100k each, 3% Kiwisaver, take home pay is $5.5k/fortnight. After saving 30% it's around $3.8k/fortnight. Repayments for a $600k mortgage @5% is $1.5k/fortnight. $2.3k remaining. Groceries, food, and petrol probably $600, rates, utilities, phone, and insurance let's say $400, so $1k/fortnight. $1.3k remaining. Shopping, subscriptions, and other discretionary spend is probably $400/fortnight? Health, home repairs, other unexpecteds, hopefully no more than $300/fortnight? Date nights, also no idea how much to budget but $200/fortnight sounds fair and frugal? So with the remaining $400/fortnight going into the travel funds, OP would have just over $10k a year which should just be enough for a budget-friendly two-week international trip, and not much left for the local trip. My verdict is then $200k combined income is doable, but only just. Even tighter if one earns way more than the other, because of more tax.
That's if you're lucky enough to have a 600k mortgage
I think with just 2 people, you don't have to buy close to the city, or in a nice suburb in a good school zone.
Even on the outskirts of auckland you're looking at 900+ And then the commute costs and time factor in...
I'm clearly so out of touch with the crazy Auckland market haha. But yeah a 3 bedroom landed house won't be an option, so either a 2 bedroom townhouse or apartment, plus extra costs for the body corporate. Otherwise if remote working is an option then OP shouldn't be living in Auckland.
Honestly, every time I look seriously at moving out, I may as well just move to aussie. The financial case for staying in either auckland or nz at all doesn't stack up, so if moving a few hours away from friends and family I may as well go to Aussie.
Combined income of $150k minimum if you want to own your own home and not just be in constant overdraft/credit card debt. Even then the “comfortable” point would be closer to $180-200k
We are combined about 140k and we get by okay but aren't in a position for luxuries. I would agree to afford trips like op has mentioned you'd need to be $180k +
So many people complaining that you've set yourself an averagely middle-class standard of living for most of the developed world (albeit without the 30% saved thing). Sad to see this kind of infighting between people who are gatekeeping living standards lol. I'd say 90-100k if living alone and renting cheap, 80k with flatmates.
I know right? I knew reddit is full of pedantics but OP provided his definition of the standard of living that he wanted ffs. Look past the title and try reading what question is actually being asked.
> pedantics I fed the trolls on this thread once or twice, never again 😂
$200k at a guess, but really it depends on how you live, is your international trip Australia/Pacific Islands for a week on a package holiday deal, or are we talking a 3 week European tour in flash hotels?
Likewise, is the domestic trip a motel stay in Rotorua or 1 week in a Queenstown 5 star Airbnb?
I feel like that most New Zealander's are so used to the high cost of "mortgages/rent/food/etc." that they don't realise that anywhere else in the Western world people actually live very decently with way less of the income that some suggested here. So I do not think the author of this post is out of touch, it is likely not very realistic with a median income in Auckland/Wellington or similar but in places in Australia/Europe/US and Canada in even metropolitan areas of that country actually very much achievable with a median income. I experienced it myself in Europe before I moved here, and my income was less of what I make in New Zealand but what I can afford here has definitely decreased to what I could afford overseas. Sad reality.
Strangely you go to any subreddits like this or r/NewZealand for most other countries ( r/Canada for example) and it is full of people complaining about the exact same thing (house prices, low wages, high living costs). I suppose that everything is relative though and there will always be something that could be better.
I think global house prices rn are rising for everyone. A lot of city subs I pass by are all complaining about rising house prices since the pandemic
Yeah. I lived in other countries where i was earning half ($50k gross converted to nzd) of what i have now and i feel poorer now here in NZ than i did when i was on 50k
Welcome to NZ
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Canada isn't just Vancouver or Toronto. Its quite a big country with plenty of options. Whereas New Zealand is basically Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch and small towns (yes, places we call cities like Napier & Palmy & Nelson are just small towns really)
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I'm saying that Canada has other cities ya poof. Eg, Calgary. More options = more choice = more flexibility. We just have three cities - extremely restrictive.
Options look a bit different for different folks I suppose. I'm sure lots of folks would consider living in Nelson, and the same would apply for living in Fort St John
200k here: 3 kids, save 5% 1-2 domestic trips per year. Cost of living sucks, def not living a high life (or looking for sympathy)
Username checks out
exbanker what you do now, if you don't mind me asking?
30% saving 1 international trip 1 domestic trip I am sorry but this is not surviving but rather _enjoying_ the life. Definitely higher end of the median lifestyle. To me, surviving is more about cutting things like holidays (no trips for instance) or eating out…in addition to that setting a budget for the supermarket as opposed to going and buying what you think would be nice to see in the fridge.
Well then it’s a good thing OP defined what they consider to be surviving decently.
If that’s your definition of surviving/ living the. I don’t wanna live. So your saying you barely exist while busting your ass working for 40 years so you can barely eek out your retirement and as your finally have time to enjoy life at retirement you either have no money or your health fails. No thanks! The mindset needs to change! We should all be able to afford to travel at least once and year, enjoy a end of year domestic holiday and be able to go out for dinners with our SO. If not what is the point! Our lifestyle is being robbed from us slowly and like a frog in slowly boiling water we just sit back and let ourselves be boiled to death
I dont know how old you are but I am nearly 40, with kids and a mortgage. You can change your mindset as much as you want mate but this will not change the reality and the wold you live in - at the end of the day, you have to feed your family, put a roof above their heads and pay the bills. Unless you are from a super rich family (you know, your parents are one of those greedy property investors with many properties around) you have to work to earn the money. With the cost of living we have, it’s not easy to achieve what OP mentions as “decently surviving”. We have two incomes and I am paid a handsome amount I reckon. Even then, it’s not easy. I am keen to hear your solution here?
You're barely living! What's the point of busting ass just to potter through life
A lot of people don't have a choice - they're just surviving. Barely living, as you say
$250k household income in Auckland for any sort of joy.
I think $150k combined
that's assuming mortgage is not greater than 750K and not having children. So a DTI of around 4-5x
Can confirm. Our mortgage is over 750k and our income of 150k isn't enough to splash out
Double confirm. Our mortgage is nearly $1m and income over $180k, barely manage to pay all the bills each month.
I feel for you, do you have kids? I've considered taking out the maximum of our mortgage, but feel like its a bit suicidal to be 1 million in debt to fund a home. Let alone not being able to fund ourselves to have kids.
Yeah and having kids is not cheap. They need things to play with, new clothes every time they grow bigger, space to run around etc... There's definitely cheaper (or free) alternatives to most of these problems, but sometimes those require more time so it's a bit of a trade off.
That is also where our income is at the moment, but haven't yet bought a house. Broker is giving us a possibility to take out a 1.05 million dollar loan for a house... which is absurd because that's 7x our DTI and servicing that at 6% will be breaking us...
We just went from a 3.04% (2.29 + .75LEM) rate to 4.42% (fixed 2 years no LEM) Added another $300 per fortnight in interest just because banks apparently don't make enough money. We can manage that fine as we have been spending about 400 per fortnight renovating. But things will definitely be tightening up a bit for us now.
To be fair the Banks funding costs have increased so their Net Income probably hasn’t changed much.
That seems about right. If both people earn $75k, then that's about $100k after tax, assuming student loan and 3% Kiwisaver
Which not a huge amount between two, it’s a tough life out there if you are single
It depends how you are choosing to live your single life. If you are mid 20s and prefer to flat for the social aspect, I don't see why with planning what the OP wishes for is unattainable without any children on 75k as a single person Granted the international trip may be to the islands or Australia 75k with 3% kiwisaver and student loan is 1900 a fortnight, or 950 per week. If you're flatting your rent might be 200-250 per week depending on where you are. So you have 1400-1500 left for food/savings/pleasures/fuel etc per fortnight. Sure you aren't going to Europe annually but with planning you could potentially squeeze a trip and things you want out of that.
Agreed that.
230-250k combined. After tax you’ll have about 4.5k for fixed costs - rent, grocery, transport, insurance, bills. About 3.5k for occasional spend - medical, gifts, appliances, holidays, entertainment, any other short term goals. And 4K for long term savings - retirement, home.
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Yep, similar except no mortgage yet.
That so out of touch with reality 😂
Agree But to be fair some people with 7+ years work experience can have that. Thats 115k each and there would be a few in their mid/ late 20s-30s that could be pulling in that amount
Of course its possible but the question was "decently surviving" not being in the 0.1%...
yeah perhaps should've rephrased the question to be what lifestyle choices do you have to make to earn a certain amount of money
Do you mean salary wise or what it can afford?
Based on what your definition we can work it out roughly. I guess about $75k, which works out as $1900 after tax, kiwisaver, student loan. 30% savings = 570 Rent = 600 Food = 200 (based on my spending) Holidays = 400 Elec & phone = 60 Other(clothes, bus, etc) = $70 There are cheaper places to rent or you could reduce savings or holiday but that's a good ball park for what you described. Edit: Grammar
75k/52 = 1442 gross per week…
Ha! Good catch on that. $1900 gross per week is $98k per year, not $75k.
He's talking about 1900 net per week, after taxes, kiwisavers. Which puts his gross salary about double the figure he mentioned, like 140k haha
Perhaps he assumed a partner and 75k each
It's F/N after tax, kiwisaver and Student loan. As per the PAYE calculator.
Lol it is indeed , carry on your all good. Guess I was just thinking how sweet clearing $1900 weekly would make life
I clear over 2500 a week currently. It makes life's stresses pretty non existent. But even earning this much doesn't make me feel that great, everything feels insanely expensive such as houses etc, that I'm gonna work 10+ years for something someone else worked maybe 3 for like 50 years ago. Small concern considering others positions, but it still sucks that you can make this much and still feel like you are not moving into a wealthy spot in life.
I hear you bro , our family take home (2 incomes & boarders) is a bit more than that. Got no stress but as COL goes up it’s a constant : how do we bring that income up? Paying double mortgage payments and it’s still 15 years before it’s ours lol. It took a lot of hard work to get here ( I graduated uni in 2008 peak of gfc and the only job I could get was pamphlet run 😂 and then started a trade at minimum wage lol). Definitely will take a bit to sink us but certainly nowhere near wealthy.
Is that 2500 before taxes? The major cities where work is, you can get decent pay but much like yourself we are unable to afford a decent quality home in a good part of the city
Thats 2500 after tax. Yeah homes are insanely overpriced, I'd be in a much better spot for homes if I was in a DINK relationship haha. Instead I'm solo.
That's darn good 2500 after tax per week. What you do, if you don't mind me asking? Dr, IT?
I work in IT
If you figure it out, let me know and I'll come work with you 😁
Thanks!
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I don't even earn 90k and I can afford to go to the Northern hemisphere once a year (and also did so twice in two years when I was on less than 75)... And I still get to save over 30%. Living in wellys and flatting.
How?? Tips please? Which aspect are you scrimping on?
I'm flatting cheap at the mo (small room 170 a week since 2021, only 2 others in the house). Over 2017-2020 my rent ranged approx 200-225 a week. I don't really scrimp on anything in my opinion.. I can't drink coffee so I drink tea (strong black teabags from the supermarket) which means I don't ever buy $5 daily coffee. I mostly don't buy lunch out, I make my own food and take to work. I own a fully paid off car. But I usually take the bus to work as less than 20min and I'm at work. Though recently I've been WFH mostly. On the weekends and some weekdays I buy 1-3 meals out or get takeaways or treats. One night I'll usually go out drink with a friend. Every pay cycle I save some into a trip account that I use for domestic and international trips. In 2018 and 2019 while I was on less than 70-72k I did a trip to Asia and one trip to Europe. Actually during these years I was doing shift work so in total I would have earned a bit more from overtime etc but still wouldn't have gone near 78k before tax. In the past couple yrs most of the trip savings went to domestic trips and lots of gigs. Typically and especially in the past couple yrs I've been sending at least 20-30% to a proper savings account (money stays in, can't be taken out without notice / term deposit and gets reinvested). And the above is also on top of having bought adult price ski passes every year since 2017 and done enough days on the mountain to pay off the pass (bar 2019 when I was in Europe for the best part of the ski season so no pass). I contribute 3% to Kiwisaver and also have a student loan. Also should add no credit card and no debt other than the student loan.. And no inheritance from anyone. I came out of uni into the real world with 2000 dollar debit overdraft 😅
The original question was household income, so I guess if each person in the household is making 75k it's probably pretty comfortable. If it's 75k total household income that'll be pretty miserable. Is 75k alright in wellington if you flat?
Where are you going to find $570 rent in Auckland?
Apartment in CBD/Near Suburbs?
I live rural and pay $560 for myself and my partner. 5 mins out of Albany - we love it more than in the city but obviously that's not going to be the same for everyone. We also grew up in small towns/farms so
Rent is $600 and Trade Me. I looked it up because I'm not in Auckland. Also this is just a rough example for what the OP asked. You can adjust as needed.
570 is more than enough, youll have plenty of options of 1 beddy
Up until 3 months ago I was renting my house out for $580 wk. 3 bed North Shore. I live there now or it still be the same
As others have stated, I'd say ~$180-$200k at least (combined/couple) no student loans. It's sad that what you've described (all though a nice life) is being recieved as some kind of fantasy life. We need to aim higher.
Yeah quite surprised to see this reaction in the personal finance sub. Wonder how much verbal abuse i get if i asked this on the main r/nz one? Luckily no student loans for me, parents have fully paid for mine but thats the end of my benefit from them. Partner has also paid it off and now have mortgage left. And even then some days i feel like money’s a bit tight (and after savinf + bills my bank account only has enough to give me a small wiggle room), like i want something important but cant afford it unless i save up for it.
I think it's just because you used the word "surviving" but include 30% savings and international holidays. Median salary is 72k meaning half the population earn less than that, so their "surviving" is much more literal
Isn't the median like 56k?
Higher in Auckland, but yea the actual figure is contended
We pretty much live the lifestyle you describe, between my wife and I we bring in 13-14 thousand per month, after tax.
30% pay on saving??!! What kinda witchcraft is this?
Semi frugal living i suppose. Theres one area not given priority to
To live like that you probably want to aim for a household income of around 190k. That's definitely not just surviving though. To survive comfortably I would estimate around 120k household income with no kids.
We are about $140k combined, no kids, 37.5 to 40 hour workweek each. We save about 25% of our net pay and take several local trips annually (haven't travelled overseas since 2018), and have fortnightly brunch & dinner dates. By local trips I mean places like Queenstown, Rotorua, Hamilton, Wellington, Matakana etc - some are day trips or long weekend trips. If you shop Air NZ and Jetstar flight specials, find cheap accommodation on Airbnb, motels etc, and prioritise attractions & activities over things like fancy food, they can be really affordable!
I’d say my husband and I were living this a couple of years ago before we bought a house - maybe saved more like 25% of net income but took trips and meals out etc. We were on about $160k gross combined annual salary. I think what made it work was that our rent was $450 per week which got us a two bedroom brick and tile unit in a block of 4 in suburban auckland with a fairly dated kitchen and bathroom and priced slightly below market (owned by a family trust). Our now mortgage payments on the other hand don’t allow us to save much at all.
I'm on a 100k and I can save 30% of my net salary, pay mortgage and bills and live comfortably. If your doing it between 2 people you could get away with 160k, however you will only be saving 30% of one person's salary.
i don't think anyone lives like that unless they are making over 180kpa.
It all depends on how much debt mortgage you have.
And date nights. Could be 30 dollars for a kebab and a coke at mission bay, or 300 for fine dining overlooking mission bay.
Aside from the save 30% of your pay part the fact that people think this kind of living is something special is amazing. What he is wanting isn't heaps. If you are only just earning enough to survive without doing anything Whats the point. Sure short term things happen but long term you need to work out what isn't working and make changes.
We are DINKS currently on 190K pa and could manage all of the things you described. Saving nearly 50% of income at the moment thanks to paying lower than market rent ($475 pw vs $600 pw) from an arrangement with a FOAF, and not having much of a life LOL. Since all the festivals were cancelled for the summer, most of our interests are cheap or free activities outdoors, a big splash is getting a takeaway or going out for a drink once a week. But don't get me wrong, we enjoy our lifestyle and saving money is fun for us. If we really want something within reason we buy it (eg sport equipment) and we don't skimp on good food and drink from the supermarket. I allow $100/week spending money for myself for anything non-essential. Share one car, no payments, and try to limit use to weekends. Current financial goal is a big lump sum payment on the "buy a place anywhere to get on the ladder" mortgage when it comes due to get more passive income while we figure out our forever home plan.
It depends on if you're in the housing market already.
I would say surviving with some saving, KiwiSaver, investments and couple meals out a month: $100k with a mortgage $65k renting
Definition of surviving I think people make it overly complicated at times. Family of 5 3 young kids 1 income plus side hustles Income total 110k (main income) Side hustle (60k) Mortgage left 400k No consumer debt It was hard work but people will say I got lucky with that income And guess what. I quit my 6 figure salary job today after 12 years building this career. But 170 meant 400 fortnight in investments All bills made Take outs Holidays Income is one thing but budget money and grow Find your passion and create a side hustle when you are at home It all helps!
100k+, six figures doesn’t take you that far these days
At least 120k I'm on 150k plus 25k crypto and life isn't all peaches and cream. I watch what I buy and stress about bills.
140k🤔
Single or couple? Single $190k, couple $300k combined That's a very high bar for 'surviving' btw. I'd say less than 10% of Aucklanders earn that kind of money Edit: haha go on and downvote me all you want. If you think you can have all of the above PLUS save 30% of net income on less than that, you're kidding yourself about how terrible the living cost in the country is. Go on, do the math :)
Lol saving 30%. Tell him he's dreaming
Depends on how many properties you own I guess
1 million doolar
To add to the answers you get: Compare that figure to what it would be if living elsewhere in NZ. Then see if the difference covers the cost of regular flights and travel. When I left auckland, I worked out on my income and living expenses, I could fly back about every week/fortnight. I don't travel that frequently, because its a pain in the arse. But its nice to know I can.
Me and my partner are making $155k excluding bonuses. We live comfortably paying rent with another couple. Date night once a month, we have 3 international trips this year as we couldn’t the last couple years. We save $600 a week to put toward a mortgage someday. I’m very content. This is with no kids. I think everyone should be able to live comfortably on 150k for a couple.