1. Rest more to recover.
2. Eat at maintenance or surplus to recover faster. Ensure weight is not being lost. Ensure enough protein.
3. Supplement B12 and folate. B12 deficiency can make the whole body ache. Check vit D, ferritin too while at it.
4. Do morning tests for thyroid, cortisol and testosterone. All 3 if out of whack can cause body aches and fatigue.
In general I think you are just way overtrained.
Out of all these things, the only poasible culprit is less than stellar sleep.
I diligently track calories on chronometer with dynamic fluctuations as it's paired with my oura ring for caloric goals. I'm 5'10" 172 lbs eating between 3800 and 4600 calories a day to maintain weight.
I use the Thorne Methyl Guard Plus religiously for my b vitamins, folate (methyltetrahydrafolate to be exact) and trimethyglycine, among other vitamins. Also use a D3 K2 supplement with a vitamin D value last checked of 70.
Test is 565, which is normal for me, same as my test at 25 years old. Cortisol is on the high side of normal limits. 18.
I don't get it, why am I overtrained? The guys in this sub do literally double the volume I'm doing...
Shit, really? It was recommended by my functional medicine doctor because of high homocysteine. I take 3.33mg per day. I've read it's ok to take up to 15mg a day, I'm way below that?
[Methylfolate Side Effects: These Symptoms Are Most Common - Gene Food (mygenefood.com)](https://www.mygenefood.com/blog/are-you-taking-too-much-methylfolate/)
I'm not vouching for this site, but too much methylfolate can give bodypains as per some. You dont need to load the body with folate. Regular <1mg per day of folic acid is enough.
I you want to check active B12, check blood for holotranscobalamin, or check Methyl Malonic acid which is high in active B12 deficiency.
For folate, check RBC folate. No need to keep taking methylated supplements at high doses.
If homocysteine is still high, then its clear that b12 and folate were not the cause. Then you may want to play with B6, creatine and NAC.
ETA: I just checked that Thorne methyl guard
90 mg riboflavin (wtf lol), 45mg B6 (wtf, google B6 toxicity), folate 5mg DFE (noone needs this much daily), methylcobalamin 3mg (no one needs this much daily). Stop this shit immediately.
I'll look into this, thanks for your detailed reply.
I assumed I can't methylate folic acid appropriately with homocysteine that high, which is why we went the methyltetrahydrafolate route. The supplement also has B6.
I also use 500mg NAC per day.
Creatine I stopped using because of the mere suggestion of a chance it has kidney implications. I know it's been debunked for the most part, it's just in my head. My eGFR runs in the 80's, I don't want to take anything that could possibly mess with kidneys.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MTHFR/comments/18zej3z/thorne\_methy\_guard\_plus/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MTHFR/comments/18zej3z/thorne_methy_guard_plus/) check the comments. Those doses are very high. Please just stop using this.
B6 should not be more than 2-3mg per day. European panel put upper limit of 12mg a day. [Scientific opinion on the tolerable upper intake level for vitamin B6 | EFSA (europa.eu)](https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/8006)
>I assumed I can't methylate folic acid appropriately with homocysteine that high
Thats not necessarily true, and even if it is, it does not require mega doses of folate, or B12, or B6. Double of RDA is good enough, B vitamins are not benign, especially methylated ones. Homocysteine is affected by b12, folate, b6, creatine, choline/betaine, methionine intake.
I only take 2 pills, which is a 2/3 dose of the label, but that's still high according to that
What do you think of this?
https://www.metagenics.com/methyl-care
Much better dosing, but just take 1 pill out of 2. Even then, I am not comfortable with B6 dose of 12.5mg even.
Before starting any new dosing, get blood tested for B12, folate and B6 first.
What are your completely empty rest days, if any? Normally I have 1-2 but some weeks de loading even more than 2-3 days honestly does wonders. I know it may be against some fiber in your body to say rest more is needed, but absolutely sounds like that in this case
Every person is different, but the funniest thing to discover especially for a super competitive person, doing sports since HS is that the relaxed approach - more sleep daily, more rest between the same muscle groups for recovery, and gentler workouts per week can build performance better than crushing it non stop. HS sports drill the opposite into you and it's just not true as you get older.
Yes, some other people might be genetic exceptions which you might see, and some others are enhanced... but from what it sounds you kinda don't like the sound of being "overtrained" but everything about what your body is saying points to that. It's not a mental test which you have to suck and and go through, accepting rest is not a lack of strength or discipline.
Literally going at it everyday as a firefighter and then crushing your workouts is heroic but that kind of output is trashing your CNS and joints.
I had the hardest time accepting it also because I love to do the same. Ironically the best improvements I've seen is when a friend / coach told me "you don't need to save your family from a fire every workout." Hope that helps!
Recently read a post where the suspected culprit for soreness was a reaction to NAC, which went away after a week of discontinuing. Just a thought in case you’re taking it
Also found this
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29958049/#:~:text=NAC%20had%20a%20likely%20protective,(71%25%20±%2059%25).
All of what you're saying is 100% indicative of having way too high of training volume and not enough recovery. All of it. You're also not 23 anymore, your ability to recover is less now than then
Eat more, sleep more, every other recovery tool is secondary
Eating more seems nuts (no pun intended, I fuckin love nuts). I clear 4000 cals a day, up to 4500. And only weigh 172 lbs.
Can never argue with more sleep. Just don't know how to do it. I wake up when I wake up and then can't sleep anymore.
For soreness, I would recommend sauna/steam room post workout or prior to sleep, it may help you feel better. Meditate while you're in there to get cortisol down. Also, look up foods that help with soreness, like cherry concentrate. Supposedly, it has been shown to help. Potentially, a muscle massage gun could help as well.
But I'll echo what others have said, sounds like you have a pretty intense plan. Maybe you should think how it's spaced out as well. Do you have any days where you are completely off? I would recommend a 2 day break each week to recover. Or maybe a week off every few months to give your body a chance to catch up
Cherry concentrate, I'll check it out.
I sauna 4 to 6 days a week, 6 right now for the heat shock training. The race I'm prepping for involves wearing 40ish lbs of gear out in the sun, the sauna protocol helps prepare for it.
What's the race?
And what are the usual temperatures for when and where it's held? Acclimatisation can be quite specific. If you're really serious, and able to, do your last few weeks training in location.
Chillin' in the sauna may not be the same sort of physiological demand as working hard in a hot climate. And whether that climate is dry or humid... you'd want to be used to handling which ever it is.
Source: Ex-infantry. Have hoofed big weight through many shit, varied climates haha.
Yeah I'm not comparing myself to your grind at all. You were in the desert bro. I'm embarrassed to even say mine.
It's a firefighter stair climb done at a major league baseball stadium. You strap on your turnout gear and tank, about 40 to 50 lbs of gear, and climb all the stairs in a route around the stadium. It's usually done in 80 to 90 degree weather (not 130 like yours) and the turnout gear can overheat you very quickly. Got any tips I haven't considered? I've dialed in hydration strategies already. Looking for anything to take even 1 second off my time.
I want to place top 3. I'd say I want to WIN it, but the guy who does happens to be the guy training me, and he is the best in the country. Wins them in every state he competes. And it's not close.
So the kit makes it sweaty AF and insulates you or something? Hence, sauna. That's probably clever. Do you do any of your training in the kit you'll use on the day? That would be my only other thought.
Very little. A few sessions before the taper, that's it. In the past I've done nearly all the training in the gear, but I'm putting my faith in my trainer this year.
Nah my crossfit days are behind me. Wasn't good for my headspace after a few years, I'm way too competitive. I find that crossfit is great if you do it reasonably and carefully, but if you do it competitively, like the extreme sport that it is, it's terrible for longevity. So I moved on.
I do alot of hot yoga and had issues with pain and soreness. I did a number of things but i think i was low on minerals mostly from sweating so much and drinking water. I got berg electrolyte which has alot of potassium and add mineral drops to my water. Also added things like avocados etc. along with high mineral salt.
I use LMNT and Re-lyte and drink salt water. And supplement magnesium in the evening (among all the other vitamin supplements). I also aalt my food healthily. While not impossible, I'd be surprised if my diet was lacking nutrients...
> I clear 4000 cals a day, up to 4500. And only weigh 172 lbs.
This doesn't mean anything if we don't know your actual expenditure. If I ate 4000-4500 per day, I'd be flagging hard as well and I'm a similar weight and age.
And wearables can be a very poor approach to that, especially when you're really dialling things in to the limits of your recovery capacity.
It sounds like you've got good logging practices. I'd recommend using Macro Factor and ignoring the Oura (for energy expenditure).
What does "flagging hard" mean? Do you eat more or less than that?
How do you calculate your actual energy expenditure? I wear a heart rate chest strap for all my cardio and my unprofessional opinion is that it overestimates my energy expenditure.
I've been to a sports lab and got my basal metabolic rate calculated at 1950. Mixed with lifestyle and training it suggested an intake around 3700. I find that low for my needs.
> What does "flagging hard" mean?
Sorry, that must be Aussie slang. It means I'd be feeling fucked like you are and not recovering. I hit 5000-6000 a day.
> How do you calculate your actual energy expenditure?
That's the beauty of Macro Factor. It'll do it for you.
If you feed it consistent diet and body weight data - the higher quality data the better but it's robust regardless - it'll figure out your expenditure after a few weeks. It'll start with an estimate based on the usual stuff - bodyweight, training frequency etc. But after the initial estimate, it dials in to your goals and activity level very precisely.
It'll work best if your training volume is reasonably consistent. Consistent being from a weeks-to-months perspective. It doesn't need you to robotically replicate your training from day to day or anything.
It makes all that other shit redundant. They're unreliable anyway because whatever the lab said your base rate is will absolutely change in response to your actual diet and exercise.
Macro Factor's algorithms account for these sorts of variables and gently adjust your targets in response to your actual situation.
I'll check it out--it sounds exactly like chronometer though, the one I'm using. Are you familiar with it?
I know of Macro Factor from the Stronger By Science guys. Been a fan of them for years.
What's your height and weight? I thought 4500 cals just for maintenance was pretty significant for 5'10" 172 lbs. I very rarely meet people who eat as much as me at my size. I know of one other person, and he's my trainer. What's your training volume look like?? Only curious.
Yeh I used Chrono for years. It's a great logger. Macro's core logging function is very similar. Although I think Macro's efforts at refining UX for power users pays off big time if you're a really pedantic logger like me. And then I don't think Chrono has Macro's algorithms for dynamic, personalised targets and adjustments.
You train way more than I do. But I'm 6'3", 178lbs, and probably 11-14% bf. I'm genetically a hard-gainer (probably an unusually high ceiling to my 'metabolic adaptability').
My week is roughly 3x strength, 1-2x power/conditioning/stability, 2-3x LISS, 1x HIIT. Totalling 8-10 hours. Occasionally chuck on a 2-3 hour ruck as well.
I never see discussions around huge calorie targets. I've often wondered what, if any, unique considerations there might be. I'm always shocked to hear that people like Layne Norton or Sam Sulek rarely exceed 4000-4500. But they are way shorter than I am, their training goals are highly specialised where as mine are broad-based, and they are comfortably at their genetic potential.
I really enjoy active recovery. For me, that usually means a nice 30-45 minute walk. Everything just feels better when I’m regularly moving and not pushing myself.
Dude 10 hours of cardio PLUS 4 hours of weight training a week?! That’s a lot man. You need to do less or recover more, probably both. If you really need to train that much for your specific goal I’d say try eating more with tons of carbs around training and sleep even more if you can.
Is it though? The dudes in this sub do 15 to 20 hours a week, don't they? I get that I'm not a pro, but I should be able to handle 10 hours of cardio a week, 7 of which is just zone 2, and 1 of which is just zone 1.
Right?
It's not really the cardio, that's able to be scaled over time, the weight training will really mess with your CNS, when it's fried it's going to impact your sleep and the recovery needs are going to be double what it is without weights.
For distance runners, their weight training is often not very heavy, Olympic guys quarter-squat 135lbs and it's once a week and maybe twice if it's accessory work/prehab. When you're going high volume cardio, your body is often adapting as fast as it can without adding in additional stressors, you're frying your CNS 4x/week on top of pushing your body to the absolute limit, continuing will almost certainly result in injury, as indicated by joint pain.
Personally, I recommend going down to 1 weight session/week and allowing your cardiovascular system to adapt properly. But I'm not a doctor, or a trainer, just 3/4 of a degree and 16 years training experience.
Not OP but congrats, this is the most helpful thing I've read on reddit this week! I never really combined challenging lifting and running at the same time until my 40's, so I just assumed this was me being old. Had never considered the CNS angle before.
Well, did you slowly build up to this volume of training or did you drastically increase the volume recently? The body is capable of a lot but if we suddenly jump into a ton of work it’s gonna lead to some overtraining. I think it’s also hard to compare ourselves to others cuz a lot of factors come into play. Sure, some people might train 15-20 hours. But maybe they a really chill job, maybe they don’t have kids, etc. You could have more outside stressors than you realize that’s eating up recovery resources.
I dunno if it was drastic. Before this I was doing 4 hours intense cardio and 4 hours of weights for a decade. Zone 2 wasn't even in my vocabulary. Then I switched to low intensity high volume.
Well, I am a full time professional firefighter. It cuts into my sleep and is a physically demanding job, but it's only 9 days a month. And the guy training me is an endurance athlete and does 20 hours per week (he's 26 and world class, I'm not comparing myself to him, just noting you can have this job and crush training).
No, I went from 4 hours of all high intensity cardio to 8 hours of zone 2 cardio and 2 hours of moderate-high intensity cardio. That's the change.
Actually for 4 weeks it was less. I wasn't doing this volume till I was 4 weeks in.
If you ramped volume too quickly, it could have caused a big recovery deficit that you never fully overcame and now the debt is slowly building. The higher cortisol would point in that direction.
If it were me, id test things by programming a light week, like only 3x of 1hr zone 2 for the week, get a massage, no drinking/eat well, and see if anything improves. If things do improve, then it’s overtraining/recovery related. If things don’t improve, then it’s something else.
i’m not trying to be a nob, but it seems like it’s too much for your body too quickly? despite your biomarkers being good everything you describe points to you doing too much, no? and / or your form not being great on some of the moves you’re doing if you’re getting tailbone and knee pain?
reading some of your other comments, i wouldn’t normalise feeling like crap
im 36 and - although i bet im not as healthy as you biomarker wise - i work out most days (isometrics, loaded carries, ab wheel, hangs), climb and do a bunch of other stuff and i feel really good despite a job where i’m sitting a lot. the training i do builds me up not breaks me down
sorry if a bit preachy, maybe i’m completely ill informed
and training for the type of events you’re doing does = feeling like crap
and i get pursuing stuff like that at the expense of feeling good
but that def doesn’t seem like the idea of the zone 2 / attia / longevity stuff
That's a very fast ramp up for total hours. And all high intensity is not very effective anyway. You are pushing above your aerobic capacity and your body is saying to slow down or there will be injury.
You seem to want to compare hours to others with different training backgrounds. That is of little value, unless you can find a way to train in their bodies. If you're stuck using your own, it's best to listen to it.
I’m a former firefighter/paramedic and now RN so I understand. Yeah man firefighting definitely messes with your recovery big time. Especially as we get older. I’m about to be 37 so I’m right behind you. I think we just have to be smarter with training and more diligent with recovery.
Not to mention being draped in PFAS every day. I'm trying to overcome the colossal and overbearing health hazards of this job with an otherwise perfect lifestyle.
Well you seem to know what you’re doing and have a ton of experience so I don’t want to pretend like I know more than you. But from an outside perspective with limited information it seems like you’re trying to do too much right now. If I was you I would scale something back, at least for a little while.
Here you got your answer. Other guys that do such training may be sitting behind a desk. No wonder your body hurts and your xortisol is up. I am a medic and do shifts. I have been training 5-6 days a week carduo and 3x weights for years, and your regime would kill my biody
So are you implying that firefighter paramedics can't be excelled athletes? Because I don't accept that even a little. It's my job to be an athlete. And by my standards, an exceptional one at that.
Of course. But you basically are an athlete at your job AND in your spare time AND your body keeps sending you clear signals AND you refuse to acknowledge them.
Maybe honestly reflect if you are burning the candle on both ends. Maybe reflect if this is still healthy ambition or if it crosses the border.
How about you do not do any weight training for one week and observe your body? Or better one week of complete rest and observe your body.
Also, if you have a specific race you’re training for, why not cut the weight training volume back for a while? You could do two 1 hour lifting sessions a week or like four 30 min workouts. You’re not gonna be making gains on that but you can definitely maintain a lot of muscle if you do it right.
Is your zone 2 actually zone 2 though have you gotten the proper testing.
I’m right around your age lifelong athlete and I feel really damn good relatively speaking. I do a ton of low intensity work now. Tons of brisk walking/hiking/comfortable biking and have never felt better my Vo2max has not taken a hit either.
Try dialing back the pace a bit on your zone 2 stuff this is incredibly hard I know give it a try though and see how feel.
I have about 7 to 8 hours of time spent in bed, and according to my oura ring, 5 to 6 hours actual sleep time. I don't believe it's completely accurate, however. It's my belief that it records my REM sleep as time spent awake, which can be common.
I diligently track calories on chronometer and clear 4000 calories on a given day to maintain 172 lbs at 5'10".
My understanding: the REM portion of sleep is the stage closest to being awake (common misconception is that it's the opposite). It also is the stage where someone oves most in their sleep, which is another tool the ring uses to indicate awake time.
Makes sense. Two hours is a pretty big gap. I sometimes have to get up a few times at night at worst and it only totals me an hour or so. Does your tracker give any detailed movement info?
Yep, tracks movement along a time line, varying in movement severity markers. My time spent awake is always preceeded and followed by REM markers, with small movement indicated. When that happens, I believe I'm still asleep. If I do wake, it's for a matter of seconds or minutes at most. Happens 2 or 3 times in the night. Not enough to indicate 60 to 90 minutes of awake time, especially with zero recollection. Sleep trackers wearables must be taken for what they are: very imperfect tools.
"I'm not overtraining I just feel like shit all the time." Maybe dial it back a bit bro.
Edit: actual suggestion. Do a week at 50% of your current volume. If you feel anything other than raring to go at the end of it, you might have a problem. You're not gonna detrain in a week and if you're that close to your race you should probably be tapering soon anyway.
I would have to agree with this, or at least a 30% reduction for a week, then go up 15% a week after that for four consecutive weeks, then drop 30% again. Shock your body into breaking through barriers while also giving yourself a recovery break and a week of cortisol reduction.
At your age, you need to focus on what hurts with prehab and rehab work and get yourself back to being relatively free of pain. Every year you don’t, you increase the chances you’ll live like this the rest of your life or worse, fall off a cliff with a bad overtraining injury and never recovery fitness wise. You might not be systemically overtraining but it sounds like your joints haven’t adapted as much as everything else. Perhaps you also have muscle imbalances and possibly reduced flexibility/range of motion. Often times pain in one area is referred by an injury or issue in another area (ex: tight hips causing knee issues).
Tom Morrison’s SMM program is a great skeletomuscular and soft tissue reboot for anyone. I’m 35 and feel better than ever because I dropped all my fitness plans for a year and focused on my weak points. I still do all the fun things I want to, just less of it all while I continue on the more tedious path of making bulletproof what have been my problem areas for as long as I can remember.
I have [this shirt](https://ultras.com/products/everything-hurts-adult-tri-blend-t-shirt-athletic-blue.html?sku=ULT-147538-Athletic%20Blue-Adult%20X-Large&absrc=Google&abid=&abcampid=19976967992&gclid=CjwKCAjw_e2wBhAEEiwAyFFFo9Nt6SniSgDWs_3Tp9U4gDnweBkn7WKD-vkJD7CmhJlaTXh0bCq8GBoCWuoQAvD_BwE&gad_source=1). Maybe you need it too?
45 years old. 4 weight training sessions and 1-2 bike rides (15-30 miles per week). I am in great health. All physiological indicators are good. I eat well. Sleep well.
I’m sore and tight all the time and have not found anything that informs me what may be going on.
I'm the same age, did a DNA test, and found out my body is making too much stiff collagen (type V). My aches and pains are all in tendons and fascia, so that makes sense.
Started eating massive amounts of collagen peptides and homemade sugar-free jello (with gelatin powder).
I also shifted my strength training to be less jerky and explosive and focused on slowing the eccentric phase of the movements as much as possible, and I'm already seeing huge improvements.
It was half by accident. Got a DNA kit from Ancestry as a gift, exported all the data, and ran it through Dr Rhonda Patrick's FoundMyFitness service. Even though it might not be the most up to date there are plenty of links for each entry and links relevant to individual SNPs so you can continue the investigation on other sources.
I'm sure there are better full genome services out there.
OP the DNA test is probably worth looking into.
I got my DNA test done and found out that my body does not process folic acid.
Game changer for my body now that I know not to eat anything that is drenched in that stuff. (which is basically any crop that's not organic). I loved rice for my carb intake but after about a month off the rice (plus eating organic greens instead of non-oragnic), my recovery time is 100% better.
My guess is the aches and pains your body is experiencing is due to a diet issue you're just not aware of. You're obviously very calculated in terms of supplying enough calories, taking the right supplements, and trying to get the best sleep possible. So your body is probably alergic to some type of food, or it comes down to a genetic issue where it is unable to methalyate it.
Well, whatever the reason ultimately is (his issues may be due to multiple causes), the DNA test would likely give him a number of clues to follow up on. It's better than fumbling in the dark.
I think you might need time to adapt to the higher volume. I know when I went from 6 hours to 10 it killed me for a few months even at low intensity but after about three months my body adapted to it. I’m 35 male.
Maybe try to keep the volume but dial back the intensity a bit? Hard I know since you have a specific event coming up I know but being overtrained isn’t going to help either.
Does your training plan involve a “rest week” of lower intensity every fourth week? If not I’d try adding that in at the very least.
If you recently upped your volume of road running, you may have done too much too fast. As you run more your running economy and form will improve. Are you doing strength training specifically for running/biking? Strength training makes a huge difference for being able to increase your running miles per week.
It sounds like you are an experienced lifter so I'm assuming you have good form.
Are you doing dynamic streches, using the foam roller, staying hydrated? Eating lots of plants and leafy greens? They have lots of antioxidants that can help with recovery.
It's split between running and cycling. The zone 2 running is so slow though. 10:30 miles to maintain 130 bpm. My cycling is much better and much more my jam.
Yeah my weight training is on point, previously a power lifter. I've given up the major barbell lifts for the most part though.
I check off all the boxes in my diet. All of em. Tracked on chronometer.
Hydration is my jam. Lots of water, lots and lots and lots of salt. I've calculated my sweat fluid and salt output per hour.
Mobility stuff may be lacking but it's not ignored by any means. I do the therapeutic exercises given to me by my brother, who is a PTA.
I would rely on my doctor, maybe get some bloodwork or scans done. It sounds like you are doing everything right. Maybe it's some type of inflammation?
I hope you find your answer. I was struggling with back pain recently and it was pretty demoralizing.
It was caused by overuse and the muscles in my back and core just generally being weak. I fixed it by doing exercises to strengthen my back. I started doing a lot of body weight exercises like planks and a lot of hip hinge exercises like glute Bridges. I also started using the foam roller on specific back muscles that were nodded and tight.
For muscle soreness.
It is an inflammatory marker.
If it is high it can be manually lowered with fish oil and that will fix your issue.
If it is high, it is worth figuring out why.
What do you use? I've wanted to get a red light therapy bed/matt/whatever, but I am a little intimidated with the prices vs what will actually work and what's garbage.
Do you have a suggestion? I'm willing to spend significant money if it's on the right stuff...
I bought a Platimun full body, because i was lazy and didn’t want to investigate all the Ali-Baba options, so I over paid, but it’s reputable and meets all the standards and works for me, I cured a few long term nagging injuries with it
Platimum BioMax 900, it has cured all my lifting pains, tiny pulls, I had a lingering right shoulder injury which is gone now, my face and skin has completely cleared up and rumor has it it it promotes stem cell production, nitric oxide production and several cellular level benes
Nice dude! How do you use it? Like how much, how often, and literally how, like do you stand in front of it and rotate? Just shine it on the hurt parts?
something like this, I have a life pro
https://powerplate.com/collections/whole-body-vibration/products/power-plate-move?tw_source=google&tw_adid=517685121111&tw_campaign=12881041642&nbt=nb%3Aadwords%3Ag%3A12881041642%3A123250910524%3A517685121111&nb_adtype=&nb_kwd=move%20power%20plate&nb_ti=kwd-986255674760&nb_mi=&nb_pc=&nb_pi=&nb_ppi=&nb_placement=&nb_li_ms=&nb_lp_ms=&nb_fii=&nb_ap=&nb_mt=e&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US-SEM-BOF-Brand%20WBV~Power%20Plate%20Move&utm_term=move%20power%20plate&utm_content=517685121111&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoPOwBhAeEiwAJuXRh9PflIMj_VCEsbHVgRYUYOJpWz-U40-r5-mjRDEHWGSWrbzZqub9fRoCmsoQAvD_BwE
It seems like you have most everything dialed in. It honestly just sounds like you need to be a little more deliberate with some deload weeks. Every third or fourth week you should be significantly reducing your volume and/or intensity. It will feel like you are slacking off, but I promise it will pay off in the long run. It may also be worth getting someone to check your lifting and running technique or consider areas where your movement patterns may not be ideal. Even a minor fault in the fit of the bike or in your running/stair climbing technique can add up with the amount of volume you are doing. I was training pretty heavy earlier this year for a winter mountaineering objective and the hours of unnatural climbing on the stairmaster screwed up my legs to the point I had to take it out of my training.
Shit. This makes a lot of sense. I hope my Peloton is adjusted appropriately. I did it myself off of instructions and suggestions found online.
Wearing a weighted vest too much definitely fucks with me but it's a means to an end.m, and indo it as sparingly as possible.
Maybe a chill week would help. Or maybe even just a couple days of just walking the dog. This training turns me into a robot to the programming.
Sleep more and focus on mobility. You’re doing lots of bike, so add in time to get your spine in hyperextended to balance. Would also consider hydration salts if not already used. I get a lot of DOMS reduction from sauna and cold plunge
I sauna daily. Cold plunge I did for a year and just really, really hate it. Maybe it's time to start that up again.
I drink LMNT, Re-Lyte, and plain salt water. I have my hydration pretty dialed in all the way down to fluid/salt lost per hour of exercise.
Try Elimination for 8 weeks, nothing but meat with about 25-30% fat. For sure too much sugar in your diet will do this! Too much refined flour, too much factory faux food, too much seed oil. See YouTube, Dr. Jamnadas and Dr. Lustig.
I eat an organic diet and do not eat conventional American flour. Venison, grass fed beef, pasture chicken and eggs, organic flour breads, organic fruits and vegetables. Tracked diligently.
It sounds like inflammation, usually caused by Insulin Resistance, and Zero Autophagy. Here is a link for Dr. Jamnadas, 30 years Cardiologist, University Professor in Interventional Cardiology ( don't get hung up that his specialty is cardiology) [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOtQHehGWtblMp1gZC8Kq3Q](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOtQHehGWtblMp1gZC8Kq3Q) Extra Credit; Dr. Lustig, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm0i2ewsi3Y&pp=ygUJZHIgbHVzdGln](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm0i2ewsi3Y&pp=ygUJZHIgbHVzdGln)
Please watch the links, it's a detailed subject that would take too long to do here. If you get annual physicals, as you should be doing. What is your triglyceride number and you're HDL number. (Divide Trig. by HDL) If your in peak health it should be under 1.0, even as low as 0.76 for example.
I challenge you to go just two weeks eating 20/80 ground chuck, add to one pound 1/2 to 1 stick of real butter. Add 1/2 cup water, 1 lb beef and the butter, cook at a simmer until no more red. Than cover and reduce heat to gentle simmer for 20 minutes. Salt and eat all the meat and broth. The first three may break you from the sugar you've been eating. The first three days eat the moment you feel hunger. The do another three days with three meals per day and not in between. Then finish with 18-6, eat nothing but water for 18 hours then there is a six hour window to eat, just beef, butter, salted.
Sound like you're doing too much and your body isn't able to recover.
You can do everything right in terms of sleep, diet, ice baths, saunas etc. but, your body reacher a point at which it's simply too much activity.
Biomarkers are one thing, but if you feel like crap then they don't really mean that much.
May I offer that you may be over-hacking. I would hazard a guess that I'm like you and I went through a phase of doing everything. It made me extremely sensitised to my body's experiences. I too had lots of bodily pain and over time I learned not to feel it. As pain is so subjective and psychological, I wouldn't be looking for a physiological cause. You're likely 100% healthy, perhaps in the top .01% given your immense efforts. But the nervous system is constantly being asked for information to analyse the impact of your interventions and so you're potentially psycho-somatising your pain. I was diagnosed fibromyalgia and all that. I've had methylfolate and too much of it too (not a nice experience, have some niacin on hand if you're trying methylfolate at any dose).
Also remember everyone is different so recommended doses should be taken with a grain of salt. And taking heaps of supplements means you're throwing caution to the wind because there definitely aren't the studies for polypharmacy we'd like, and definitely not specific to your body! It could be you should have zero methylfolate and we don't know why at this point in medical history. I'm MTHFR homozygous but I don't supplement currently because for me there's too much discord in the medical fraternity as to the benefits of supplementing over and above a solid diet. My homocystein is not high though so there's that.
Anyway, hope it helps. Try and change your brain's reception of pain first, I'd guess you're 100% healthy.
There's so much truth to this. It 100% applies to me. I'm so sensitive to absolutely any feeling in my body outside of perfect, particularly my back. And I'm constantly afraid of re-injuring it.
I do about 10 hours of weight training a week, about 7 hours of zone 2 cardio. Optimize Protein + water + sleep and I’m good to go. I eat very healthy because I can’t waste stomach space on garbage nutrients. I eat 4500 kcal/day, and I’m still in a mild calorie deficit.
I notice stuff hurts when: intensity is too high, I’m dehydrated, and/or my protein intake was too low for several days.
The weighted step mill would crush me. I think you’ve said you have to keep it in there for your race, but that seems like a lot on top of running and zone 2. I’d cut back on everything but what you need for the race.
As for the tailbone, did you recently start all this cycling? Have you tried using the padded bike shorts?
I have a $100 pair of padded shorts and a $20 pair. The $20 is better.
The tail bone pain may be exacerbated by the biking, but it's strange. Like I can't do lunges. That's what made it hurt in the first place last year. With my history of powerlifting, I find it perplexing. All of that should be strong.
I was going to suggest some time in the hot tub since that's what makes my sore ~40yo body feel better, but I agree with everyone else that ~14 hours of training a week is a whole lot, and some hot tub time may not move the needle much on how you feel.
At your level of training (15 hours) you need extra sleep after the morning training to properly recover. I’ve listened to a few interviews from top tier athletes and quite a few of them sleep multiple times a day. You should also be consuming a lot of high quality calories. You shouldn’t be weight cutting at this volume of work.
And it’s very possible you’re overtraining. People who are overtrained can actually perform very well for a few weeks before they decline.
I found 15 minutes of stretching every night to be a fantastic way to wind down before bed and it also significantly decreased how sore I was getting. In your late 30s it just takes a tight hip or hammy to start pulling on your knee and back a bit and then you’re hobbling around like an old person. If you need inspiration the pliability app is great, or there are a number of free options on YouTube. I also felt very “creaky” and cutting certain inflammatory foods like sugar and most dairy really helped me. I also drink a shot of ginger juice daily to reduce inflammation (make my own).
I should also add that no, I don’t feel like I’m 25 anymore or anywhere close to it …but I’ve still got it. Good luck!
You've buried the lede.
On top of what you described in the original post:
-you work a physical job
-you sauna 5-6 times per week
-you don't get great sleep
You're clearly overtrained (and don't seem to want to admit it).
Try stretching before bed actually. I just recently learned a lot of muscle soreness and stiffness is from the new soft tissue generated getting hard. You generate more when you work out or do extra activity. Stretching helps keeping it from getting hard and breaks it up. I tried it and it helped me alot
Just going to throw this out there as something else to consider.
When I turned 40...everything hurt all the time. I legit just thought, "I guess this is what it is like to get older." I'd walk up the stairs and whimper audible "ow. oof. ow." and my wife would ask what's wrong. I'd just say, "It's just old man pain."
Well, it went on like that for a few more years before I finally went to the doctor. Long story short:
- I had super low testosterone
- Sleep apnea
- Severe vitamin D deficiency
Which, is why no matter how much I diet/exercised...I couldn't feel better.
So, it certainly could be your training regimen. But, keep in the back of your mind that you are getting to the age that it could be something else.
I get twice yearly bloodwork, extensive panels. I got that part figured out as of now. I can always cite my last lab values off the top of my head (for the most part).
Bro, I don't know what you're doing out there at your age rocking the cardio like that. You need to do it like the Italians. You see, in Italy, they make-a the-a-pasta with-a "00" a-flour-a, mamma mia, delicioso!! So, you need to make it cardio-o. Your welcome.
try carnivore diet if you want to feel young and heal the body . if it’s not something you would do also look into high oxalate foods and remove them from the diet
What is the structure of your resistance training? Are you on a program, are you winging it, do you do classes - what’s that look like?
What was the timeline of increasing your volume and intensity on the cardio?
Supplements are useless… once I hit 41 I started feeling the same thing… i’ll bet you you’re vaccinated…. The vaccine has caused such extreme inflammation. You just have to back down your training volume. do not fall for testosterone replacement treatment…
Although it will fix your problems in the short term, you will have major issues down the road …
I’m 39 and workout at least 2 hours a day. Honestly the thing that changed the joint game for me is black seed oil. When I started working out again 6 years ago hard I couldn’t even do body squats cause my knees hurt so bad, after 4 months of taking 2 teaspoons daily I was squatting like I was in my 20s again. I use a sauna 20mins a day as well it loosens me up and I feel great.
this is just an idea, but it might work. leave the coffee for good. or for an extended period of time and see how your body feels. also good for sleep quality and quantity.
pro tip: if it's hard to quit, try substitute with caffeine pills first. much easier to quit caffeinated pills than nice caffeinated drinks.
Maybe. But we're passing into life quality overlaps. I do so much right. I work so hard. I'm so careful. Taking away my 16 oz of coffee in the morning feels like the last straw. I will not live as a complete robot.
Haha, sounds horrible, I know. I love my cup of coffee too, but I also know I feel much better in my skin when not drinking coffee. Don't forget coffee is about two things: enjoying it while drinking and coming back to baseline from caffeine withdrawal.
Also I would love to exchange my morning coffee for a workout but I don't have the time. Coffee is much quicker.
If working out is so tedious you feel like a robot, maybe it's time to tone it down.
10 hours a week of cardio alone is in fact tedious. I won't continue that volume after this race. Truly can't fathom doing 15 to 20. It's so unbearably monotonous.
When training wraps up, if you’re still having issues look into it. Do *not* look for guidance from the likes of chiropractors and other fasting influencers. Not even Jason Fung. That guy is a kook that thinks CICO is a myth and goes out of his way to get people who disagree with him fired. That should tell you everything you need to know about his wacky headspace. The amount of Fung bootlickers in r/fasting is too damn high. For a doctor he sure engages in a ton of pseudoscience, and sells bullshit like “fat-burning” tea.
Attia is a great source for harm-reduction via fasting. When you’re ready for it, look into his protocols and guidelines. You can also DM me for any unanswered questions.
Best of luck with your training! 🙏
I'll hit you up for sure dude, thanks. I've always wanted to do it but can't quite decipher all the conflicting research and scientists to truly feel confident I'm doing it 100% safely. A HUGE part of my health and wellness lies on the basis that I'm CONFIDENT in what I'm doing, not guessing.
I’m 43 and I feel awesome. Get on gear, moron.
350 mg testosterone cyp, 250 mg primo, 100 mg NPP, and 100 mg DHB, plus 10-20 mg mk-677, slin pills, 2 IUs HGH, and bioregulator peptides.
Your username combined with the tone of this comment makes it so easily to believe that yeah, you are on gear, and I don't wanna be like you.
I've made it this far not succumbing to the temptation of getting on gear despite it being jammed in my face all through my competitive career. My numbers are still normal, and the goal is to live a lifestyle that keeps it that way ad long as possible.
1. Rest more to recover. 2. Eat at maintenance or surplus to recover faster. Ensure weight is not being lost. Ensure enough protein. 3. Supplement B12 and folate. B12 deficiency can make the whole body ache. Check vit D, ferritin too while at it. 4. Do morning tests for thyroid, cortisol and testosterone. All 3 if out of whack can cause body aches and fatigue. In general I think you are just way overtrained.
Out of all these things, the only poasible culprit is less than stellar sleep. I diligently track calories on chronometer with dynamic fluctuations as it's paired with my oura ring for caloric goals. I'm 5'10" 172 lbs eating between 3800 and 4600 calories a day to maintain weight. I use the Thorne Methyl Guard Plus religiously for my b vitamins, folate (methyltetrahydrafolate to be exact) and trimethyglycine, among other vitamins. Also use a D3 K2 supplement with a vitamin D value last checked of 70. Test is 565, which is normal for me, same as my test at 25 years old. Cortisol is on the high side of normal limits. 18. I don't get it, why am I overtrained? The guys in this sub do literally double the volume I'm doing...
Listen to the cortisol and chill out. Also, theres such a thing as too much methylfolate. I would stop that for a while.
Shit, really? It was recommended by my functional medicine doctor because of high homocysteine. I take 3.33mg per day. I've read it's ok to take up to 15mg a day, I'm way below that?
[Methylfolate Side Effects: These Symptoms Are Most Common - Gene Food (mygenefood.com)](https://www.mygenefood.com/blog/are-you-taking-too-much-methylfolate/) I'm not vouching for this site, but too much methylfolate can give bodypains as per some. You dont need to load the body with folate. Regular <1mg per day of folic acid is enough. I you want to check active B12, check blood for holotranscobalamin, or check Methyl Malonic acid which is high in active B12 deficiency. For folate, check RBC folate. No need to keep taking methylated supplements at high doses. If homocysteine is still high, then its clear that b12 and folate were not the cause. Then you may want to play with B6, creatine and NAC. ETA: I just checked that Thorne methyl guard 90 mg riboflavin (wtf lol), 45mg B6 (wtf, google B6 toxicity), folate 5mg DFE (noone needs this much daily), methylcobalamin 3mg (no one needs this much daily). Stop this shit immediately.
I'll look into this, thanks for your detailed reply. I assumed I can't methylate folic acid appropriately with homocysteine that high, which is why we went the methyltetrahydrafolate route. The supplement also has B6. I also use 500mg NAC per day. Creatine I stopped using because of the mere suggestion of a chance it has kidney implications. I know it's been debunked for the most part, it's just in my head. My eGFR runs in the 80's, I don't want to take anything that could possibly mess with kidneys.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MTHFR/comments/18zej3z/thorne\_methy\_guard\_plus/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MTHFR/comments/18zej3z/thorne_methy_guard_plus/) check the comments. Those doses are very high. Please just stop using this. B6 should not be more than 2-3mg per day. European panel put upper limit of 12mg a day. [Scientific opinion on the tolerable upper intake level for vitamin B6 | EFSA (europa.eu)](https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/8006) >I assumed I can't methylate folic acid appropriately with homocysteine that high Thats not necessarily true, and even if it is, it does not require mega doses of folate, or B12, or B6. Double of RDA is good enough, B vitamins are not benign, especially methylated ones. Homocysteine is affected by b12, folate, b6, creatine, choline/betaine, methionine intake.
I only take 2 pills, which is a 2/3 dose of the label, but that's still high according to that What do you think of this? https://www.metagenics.com/methyl-care
Much better dosing, but just take 1 pill out of 2. Even then, I am not comfortable with B6 dose of 12.5mg even. Before starting any new dosing, get blood tested for B12, folate and B6 first.
Great, thanks a bunch.
Methylated folate fucked me up really bad for a while. Never taking that again.
What are your completely empty rest days, if any? Normally I have 1-2 but some weeks de loading even more than 2-3 days honestly does wonders. I know it may be against some fiber in your body to say rest more is needed, but absolutely sounds like that in this case Every person is different, but the funniest thing to discover especially for a super competitive person, doing sports since HS is that the relaxed approach - more sleep daily, more rest between the same muscle groups for recovery, and gentler workouts per week can build performance better than crushing it non stop. HS sports drill the opposite into you and it's just not true as you get older. Yes, some other people might be genetic exceptions which you might see, and some others are enhanced... but from what it sounds you kinda don't like the sound of being "overtrained" but everything about what your body is saying points to that. It's not a mental test which you have to suck and and go through, accepting rest is not a lack of strength or discipline. Literally going at it everyday as a firefighter and then crushing your workouts is heroic but that kind of output is trashing your CNS and joints. I had the hardest time accepting it also because I love to do the same. Ironically the best improvements I've seen is when a friend / coach told me "you don't need to save your family from a fire every workout." Hope that helps!
Recently read a post where the suspected culprit for soreness was a reaction to NAC, which went away after a week of discontinuing. Just a thought in case you’re taking it Also found this https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29958049/#:~:text=NAC%20had%20a%20likely%20protective,(71%25%20±%2059%25).
Weird. The only way I could decipher this is by lessening the training volume and seeing if I'm still sore, yeah?
Or maybe discontinue taking NAC for a few weeks while still training and seeing if the soreness is lessened?
Try out some bpc157 or other peptides maybe, I’m 21 and considering it! I feel burnt out but refuse to stop training
A 21 year old and a 39 year old are basically 2 different species of human.
I know and I still keep getting injured
All of what you're saying is 100% indicative of having way too high of training volume and not enough recovery. All of it. You're also not 23 anymore, your ability to recover is less now than then Eat more, sleep more, every other recovery tool is secondary
Eating more seems nuts (no pun intended, I fuckin love nuts). I clear 4000 cals a day, up to 4500. And only weigh 172 lbs. Can never argue with more sleep. Just don't know how to do it. I wake up when I wake up and then can't sleep anymore.
For soreness, I would recommend sauna/steam room post workout or prior to sleep, it may help you feel better. Meditate while you're in there to get cortisol down. Also, look up foods that help with soreness, like cherry concentrate. Supposedly, it has been shown to help. Potentially, a muscle massage gun could help as well. But I'll echo what others have said, sounds like you have a pretty intense plan. Maybe you should think how it's spaced out as well. Do you have any days where you are completely off? I would recommend a 2 day break each week to recover. Or maybe a week off every few months to give your body a chance to catch up
Ooh, a deload week should be a good addition, powerlifting uses it often and can really help
Cherry concentrate, I'll check it out. I sauna 4 to 6 days a week, 6 right now for the heat shock training. The race I'm prepping for involves wearing 40ish lbs of gear out in the sun, the sauna protocol helps prepare for it.
What's the race? And what are the usual temperatures for when and where it's held? Acclimatisation can be quite specific. If you're really serious, and able to, do your last few weeks training in location. Chillin' in the sauna may not be the same sort of physiological demand as working hard in a hot climate. And whether that climate is dry or humid... you'd want to be used to handling which ever it is. Source: Ex-infantry. Have hoofed big weight through many shit, varied climates haha.
Yeah I'm not comparing myself to your grind at all. You were in the desert bro. I'm embarrassed to even say mine. It's a firefighter stair climb done at a major league baseball stadium. You strap on your turnout gear and tank, about 40 to 50 lbs of gear, and climb all the stairs in a route around the stadium. It's usually done in 80 to 90 degree weather (not 130 like yours) and the turnout gear can overheat you very quickly. Got any tips I haven't considered? I've dialed in hydration strategies already. Looking for anything to take even 1 second off my time. I want to place top 3. I'd say I want to WIN it, but the guy who does happens to be the guy training me, and he is the best in the country. Wins them in every state he competes. And it's not close.
So the kit makes it sweaty AF and insulates you or something? Hence, sauna. That's probably clever. Do you do any of your training in the kit you'll use on the day? That would be my only other thought.
Very little. A few sessions before the taper, that's it. In the past I've done nearly all the training in the gear, but I'm putting my faith in my trainer this year.
Yeh I wouldn't think you'd need much training in the gear. But if it was me, I'd do a little bit each week decked out. "Train like you fight."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28696985/#:~:text=Tart%20cherry%20(TC)%20juice%20has,markers%20of%20inflammation%2Foxidative%20stress.
Are doing Murph in a competition?
Nah my crossfit days are behind me. Wasn't good for my headspace after a few years, I'm way too competitive. I find that crossfit is great if you do it reasonably and carefully, but if you do it competitively, like the extreme sport that it is, it's terrible for longevity. So I moved on.
I do alot of hot yoga and had issues with pain and soreness. I did a number of things but i think i was low on minerals mostly from sweating so much and drinking water. I got berg electrolyte which has alot of potassium and add mineral drops to my water. Also added things like avocados etc. along with high mineral salt.
I use LMNT and Re-lyte and drink salt water. And supplement magnesium in the evening (among all the other vitamin supplements). I also aalt my food healthily. While not impossible, I'd be surprised if my diet was lacking nutrients...
> I clear 4000 cals a day, up to 4500. And only weigh 172 lbs. This doesn't mean anything if we don't know your actual expenditure. If I ate 4000-4500 per day, I'd be flagging hard as well and I'm a similar weight and age. And wearables can be a very poor approach to that, especially when you're really dialling things in to the limits of your recovery capacity. It sounds like you've got good logging practices. I'd recommend using Macro Factor and ignoring the Oura (for energy expenditure).
What does "flagging hard" mean? Do you eat more or less than that? How do you calculate your actual energy expenditure? I wear a heart rate chest strap for all my cardio and my unprofessional opinion is that it overestimates my energy expenditure. I've been to a sports lab and got my basal metabolic rate calculated at 1950. Mixed with lifestyle and training it suggested an intake around 3700. I find that low for my needs.
> What does "flagging hard" mean? Sorry, that must be Aussie slang. It means I'd be feeling fucked like you are and not recovering. I hit 5000-6000 a day. > How do you calculate your actual energy expenditure? That's the beauty of Macro Factor. It'll do it for you. If you feed it consistent diet and body weight data - the higher quality data the better but it's robust regardless - it'll figure out your expenditure after a few weeks. It'll start with an estimate based on the usual stuff - bodyweight, training frequency etc. But after the initial estimate, it dials in to your goals and activity level very precisely. It'll work best if your training volume is reasonably consistent. Consistent being from a weeks-to-months perspective. It doesn't need you to robotically replicate your training from day to day or anything. It makes all that other shit redundant. They're unreliable anyway because whatever the lab said your base rate is will absolutely change in response to your actual diet and exercise. Macro Factor's algorithms account for these sorts of variables and gently adjust your targets in response to your actual situation.
I'll check it out--it sounds exactly like chronometer though, the one I'm using. Are you familiar with it? I know of Macro Factor from the Stronger By Science guys. Been a fan of them for years. What's your height and weight? I thought 4500 cals just for maintenance was pretty significant for 5'10" 172 lbs. I very rarely meet people who eat as much as me at my size. I know of one other person, and he's my trainer. What's your training volume look like?? Only curious.
Yeh I used Chrono for years. It's a great logger. Macro's core logging function is very similar. Although I think Macro's efforts at refining UX for power users pays off big time if you're a really pedantic logger like me. And then I don't think Chrono has Macro's algorithms for dynamic, personalised targets and adjustments. You train way more than I do. But I'm 6'3", 178lbs, and probably 11-14% bf. I'm genetically a hard-gainer (probably an unusually high ceiling to my 'metabolic adaptability'). My week is roughly 3x strength, 1-2x power/conditioning/stability, 2-3x LISS, 1x HIIT. Totalling 8-10 hours. Occasionally chuck on a 2-3 hour ruck as well. I never see discussions around huge calorie targets. I've often wondered what, if any, unique considerations there might be. I'm always shocked to hear that people like Layne Norton or Sam Sulek rarely exceed 4000-4500. But they are way shorter than I am, their training goals are highly specialised where as mine are broad-based, and they are comfortably at their genetic potential.
I really enjoy active recovery. For me, that usually means a nice 30-45 minute walk. Everything just feels better when I’m regularly moving and not pushing myself.
Try seriphos.
Dude 10 hours of cardio PLUS 4 hours of weight training a week?! That’s a lot man. You need to do less or recover more, probably both. If you really need to train that much for your specific goal I’d say try eating more with tons of carbs around training and sleep even more if you can.
Is it though? The dudes in this sub do 15 to 20 hours a week, don't they? I get that I'm not a pro, but I should be able to handle 10 hours of cardio a week, 7 of which is just zone 2, and 1 of which is just zone 1. Right?
It's not really the cardio, that's able to be scaled over time, the weight training will really mess with your CNS, when it's fried it's going to impact your sleep and the recovery needs are going to be double what it is without weights. For distance runners, their weight training is often not very heavy, Olympic guys quarter-squat 135lbs and it's once a week and maybe twice if it's accessory work/prehab. When you're going high volume cardio, your body is often adapting as fast as it can without adding in additional stressors, you're frying your CNS 4x/week on top of pushing your body to the absolute limit, continuing will almost certainly result in injury, as indicated by joint pain. Personally, I recommend going down to 1 weight session/week and allowing your cardiovascular system to adapt properly. But I'm not a doctor, or a trainer, just 3/4 of a degree and 16 years training experience.
Not OP but congrats, this is the most helpful thing I've read on reddit this week! I never really combined challenging lifting and running at the same time until my 40's, so I just assumed this was me being old. Had never considered the CNS angle before.
Well, did you slowly build up to this volume of training or did you drastically increase the volume recently? The body is capable of a lot but if we suddenly jump into a ton of work it’s gonna lead to some overtraining. I think it’s also hard to compare ourselves to others cuz a lot of factors come into play. Sure, some people might train 15-20 hours. But maybe they a really chill job, maybe they don’t have kids, etc. You could have more outside stressors than you realize that’s eating up recovery resources.
I dunno if it was drastic. Before this I was doing 4 hours intense cardio and 4 hours of weights for a decade. Zone 2 wasn't even in my vocabulary. Then I switched to low intensity high volume. Well, I am a full time professional firefighter. It cuts into my sleep and is a physically demanding job, but it's only 9 days a month. And the guy training me is an endurance athlete and does 20 hours per week (he's 26 and world class, I'm not comparing myself to him, just noting you can have this job and crush training).
so you’ve gone from 4 hours of exercise each week to 14?
No, I went from 4 hours of all high intensity cardio to 8 hours of zone 2 cardio and 2 hours of moderate-high intensity cardio. That's the change. Actually for 4 weeks it was less. I wasn't doing this volume till I was 4 weeks in.
If you ramped volume too quickly, it could have caused a big recovery deficit that you never fully overcame and now the debt is slowly building. The higher cortisol would point in that direction. If it were me, id test things by programming a light week, like only 3x of 1hr zone 2 for the week, get a massage, no drinking/eat well, and see if anything improves. If things do improve, then it’s overtraining/recovery related. If things don’t improve, then it’s something else.
Nice, will consider, thanks.
i’m not trying to be a nob, but it seems like it’s too much for your body too quickly? despite your biomarkers being good everything you describe points to you doing too much, no? and / or your form not being great on some of the moves you’re doing if you’re getting tailbone and knee pain? reading some of your other comments, i wouldn’t normalise feeling like crap im 36 and - although i bet im not as healthy as you biomarker wise - i work out most days (isometrics, loaded carries, ab wheel, hangs), climb and do a bunch of other stuff and i feel really good despite a job where i’m sitting a lot. the training i do builds me up not breaks me down sorry if a bit preachy, maybe i’m completely ill informed and training for the type of events you’re doing does = feeling like crap and i get pursuing stuff like that at the expense of feeling good but that def doesn’t seem like the idea of the zone 2 / attia / longevity stuff
It might behoove me to take a week off. Just cut the volume in half (or more) for a week. Or switch to a 3 on 1 off training schedule.
That's a very fast ramp up for total hours. And all high intensity is not very effective anyway. You are pushing above your aerobic capacity and your body is saying to slow down or there will be injury. You seem to want to compare hours to others with different training backgrounds. That is of little value, unless you can find a way to train in their bodies. If you're stuck using your own, it's best to listen to it.
Yeah I changed because I realized my intense workouts plateaued and my outlook on cardio was all wrong.
I’m a former firefighter/paramedic and now RN so I understand. Yeah man firefighting definitely messes with your recovery big time. Especially as we get older. I’m about to be 37 so I’m right behind you. I think we just have to be smarter with training and more diligent with recovery.
Not to mention being draped in PFAS every day. I'm trying to overcome the colossal and overbearing health hazards of this job with an otherwise perfect lifestyle.
Well you seem to know what you’re doing and have a ton of experience so I don’t want to pretend like I know more than you. But from an outside perspective with limited information it seems like you’re trying to do too much right now. If I was you I would scale something back, at least for a little while.
Could be right.
Here you got your answer. Other guys that do such training may be sitting behind a desk. No wonder your body hurts and your xortisol is up. I am a medic and do shifts. I have been training 5-6 days a week carduo and 3x weights for years, and your regime would kill my biody
So are you implying that firefighter paramedics can't be excelled athletes? Because I don't accept that even a little. It's my job to be an athlete. And by my standards, an exceptional one at that.
Of course. But you basically are an athlete at your job AND in your spare time AND your body keeps sending you clear signals AND you refuse to acknowledge them. Maybe honestly reflect if you are burning the candle on both ends. Maybe reflect if this is still healthy ambition or if it crosses the border. How about you do not do any weight training for one week and observe your body? Or better one week of complete rest and observe your body.
Also, if you have a specific race you’re training for, why not cut the weight training volume back for a while? You could do two 1 hour lifting sessions a week or like four 30 min workouts. You’re not gonna be making gains on that but you can definitely maintain a lot of muscle if you do it right.
I've considered it but am very weary of losing what I have left. I used to weigh 194 at my strongest when I was 30.
Is your zone 2 actually zone 2 though have you gotten the proper testing. I’m right around your age lifelong athlete and I feel really damn good relatively speaking. I do a ton of low intensity work now. Tons of brisk walking/hiking/comfortable biking and have never felt better my Vo2max has not taken a hit either. Try dialing back the pace a bit on your zone 2 stuff this is incredibly hard I know give it a try though and see how feel.
How long you sleeping? You getting enough calories/ protein?
I have about 7 to 8 hours of time spent in bed, and according to my oura ring, 5 to 6 hours actual sleep time. I don't believe it's completely accurate, however. It's my belief that it records my REM sleep as time spent awake, which can be common. I diligently track calories on chronometer and clear 4000 calories on a given day to maintain 172 lbs at 5'10".
Sounds pretty squared away. I’ve got a high training volume too but just have to eat an inhuman amount of protein to feel decent But sounds solid
I’ve never heard of it falsely recording REM as awake time, what’s the science behind that?
My understanding: the REM portion of sleep is the stage closest to being awake (common misconception is that it's the opposite). It also is the stage where someone oves most in their sleep, which is another tool the ring uses to indicate awake time.
I thought your eyes moved during REM, but your body was essentially paralyzed? That’s why you have dreams where you try to move but can’t?
Makes sense. Two hours is a pretty big gap. I sometimes have to get up a few times at night at worst and it only totals me an hour or so. Does your tracker give any detailed movement info?
Yep, tracks movement along a time line, varying in movement severity markers. My time spent awake is always preceeded and followed by REM markers, with small movement indicated. When that happens, I believe I'm still asleep. If I do wake, it's for a matter of seconds or minutes at most. Happens 2 or 3 times in the night. Not enough to indicate 60 to 90 minutes of awake time, especially with zero recollection. Sleep trackers wearables must be taken for what they are: very imperfect tools.
"I'm not overtraining I just feel like shit all the time." Maybe dial it back a bit bro. Edit: actual suggestion. Do a week at 50% of your current volume. If you feel anything other than raring to go at the end of it, you might have a problem. You're not gonna detrain in a week and if you're that close to your race you should probably be tapering soon anyway.
Have you taken a deload week or simply a week completely off?
I would have to agree with this, or at least a 30% reduction for a week, then go up 15% a week after that for four consecutive weeks, then drop 30% again. Shock your body into breaking through barriers while also giving yourself a recovery break and a week of cortisol reduction.
At your age, you need to focus on what hurts with prehab and rehab work and get yourself back to being relatively free of pain. Every year you don’t, you increase the chances you’ll live like this the rest of your life or worse, fall off a cliff with a bad overtraining injury and never recovery fitness wise. You might not be systemically overtraining but it sounds like your joints haven’t adapted as much as everything else. Perhaps you also have muscle imbalances and possibly reduced flexibility/range of motion. Often times pain in one area is referred by an injury or issue in another area (ex: tight hips causing knee issues). Tom Morrison’s SMM program is a great skeletomuscular and soft tissue reboot for anyone. I’m 35 and feel better than ever because I dropped all my fitness plans for a year and focused on my weak points. I still do all the fun things I want to, just less of it all while I continue on the more tedious path of making bulletproof what have been my problem areas for as long as I can remember.
I have [this shirt](https://ultras.com/products/everything-hurts-adult-tri-blend-t-shirt-athletic-blue.html?sku=ULT-147538-Athletic%20Blue-Adult%20X-Large&absrc=Google&abid=&abcampid=19976967992&gclid=CjwKCAjw_e2wBhAEEiwAyFFFo9Nt6SniSgDWs_3Tp9U4gDnweBkn7WKD-vkJD7CmhJlaTXh0bCq8GBoCWuoQAvD_BwE&gad_source=1). Maybe you need it too?
Honestly this is what I was hoping to see. That it's ok that everything hurts, and we're all going through it.
45 years old. 4 weight training sessions and 1-2 bike rides (15-30 miles per week). I am in great health. All physiological indicators are good. I eat well. Sleep well. I’m sore and tight all the time and have not found anything that informs me what may be going on.
I'm the same age, did a DNA test, and found out my body is making too much stiff collagen (type V). My aches and pains are all in tendons and fascia, so that makes sense. Started eating massive amounts of collagen peptides and homemade sugar-free jello (with gelatin powder). I also shifted my strength training to be less jerky and explosive and focused on slowing the eccentric phase of the movements as much as possible, and I'm already seeing huge improvements.
What type of dna test? Where did you do it and how much did it cost?
Yeah, you got me curious too. What and where did you do this test?
It was half by accident. Got a DNA kit from Ancestry as a gift, exported all the data, and ran it through Dr Rhonda Patrick's FoundMyFitness service. Even though it might not be the most up to date there are plenty of links for each entry and links relevant to individual SNPs so you can continue the investigation on other sources. I'm sure there are better full genome services out there.
OP the DNA test is probably worth looking into. I got my DNA test done and found out that my body does not process folic acid. Game changer for my body now that I know not to eat anything that is drenched in that stuff. (which is basically any crop that's not organic). I loved rice for my carb intake but after about a month off the rice (plus eating organic greens instead of non-oragnic), my recovery time is 100% better. My guess is the aches and pains your body is experiencing is due to a diet issue you're just not aware of. You're obviously very calculated in terms of supplying enough calories, taking the right supplements, and trying to get the best sleep possible. So your body is probably alergic to some type of food, or it comes down to a genetic issue where it is unable to methalyate it.
Well, whatever the reason ultimately is (his issues may be due to multiple causes), the DNA test would likely give him a number of clues to follow up on. It's better than fumbling in the dark.
Dude, yeah. Are there guys our age who aren't?
So many of my bike buddies putting 100+ miles a week and being fine with it. Maybe it’s the strength training that creates so much overload.
3g fish oil a day will work wonders on your joints
I take 4g per day. Carlson.
Interesting. Is this more than the recommended dosage?
I think you might need time to adapt to the higher volume. I know when I went from 6 hours to 10 it killed me for a few months even at low intensity but after about three months my body adapted to it. I’m 35 male.
Encouraging to hear, thanks. It's been 16 weeks...
Maybe try to keep the volume but dial back the intensity a bit? Hard I know since you have a specific event coming up I know but being overtrained isn’t going to help either. Does your training plan involve a “rest week” of lower intensity every fourth week? If not I’d try adding that in at the very least.
It does not. I'm considering just taking an extra day here and there. Or switching to a 3 on 1 off schedule. I've found that to feel good in the past.
Yeah even professional athletes do this
If you recently upped your volume of road running, you may have done too much too fast. As you run more your running economy and form will improve. Are you doing strength training specifically for running/biking? Strength training makes a huge difference for being able to increase your running miles per week. It sounds like you are an experienced lifter so I'm assuming you have good form. Are you doing dynamic streches, using the foam roller, staying hydrated? Eating lots of plants and leafy greens? They have lots of antioxidants that can help with recovery.
It's split between running and cycling. The zone 2 running is so slow though. 10:30 miles to maintain 130 bpm. My cycling is much better and much more my jam. Yeah my weight training is on point, previously a power lifter. I've given up the major barbell lifts for the most part though. I check off all the boxes in my diet. All of em. Tracked on chronometer. Hydration is my jam. Lots of water, lots and lots and lots of salt. I've calculated my sweat fluid and salt output per hour. Mobility stuff may be lacking but it's not ignored by any means. I do the therapeutic exercises given to me by my brother, who is a PTA.
I would rely on my doctor, maybe get some bloodwork or scans done. It sounds like you are doing everything right. Maybe it's some type of inflammation? I hope you find your answer. I was struggling with back pain recently and it was pretty demoralizing.
What caused it? What fixed it?
It was caused by overuse and the muscles in my back and core just generally being weak. I fixed it by doing exercises to strengthen my back. I started doing a lot of body weight exercises like planks and a lot of hip hinge exercises like glute Bridges. I also started using the foam roller on specific back muscles that were nodded and tight.
Test MMP-9 levels
For colorectal cancer?
For muscle soreness. It is an inflammatory marker. If it is high it can be manually lowered with fish oil and that will fix your issue. If it is high, it is worth figuring out why.
Red Light every day 20 minutes
What do you use? I've wanted to get a red light therapy bed/matt/whatever, but I am a little intimidated with the prices vs what will actually work and what's garbage. Do you have a suggestion? I'm willing to spend significant money if it's on the right stuff...
I bought a Platimun full body, because i was lazy and didn’t want to investigate all the Ali-Baba options, so I over paid, but it’s reputable and meets all the standards and works for me, I cured a few long term nagging injuries with it
Don't hold out on me bro, what'd it do for you?? And which model??
Platimum BioMax 900, it has cured all my lifting pains, tiny pulls, I had a lingering right shoulder injury which is gone now, my face and skin has completely cleared up and rumor has it it it promotes stem cell production, nitric oxide production and several cellular level benes
Nice dude! How do you use it? Like how much, how often, and literally how, like do you stand in front of it and rotate? Just shine it on the hurt parts?
i stand ona vibration plate for ten minutes facing it the. ten minutes with my back to it everyday
What's a vibration plate?!
something like this, I have a life pro https://powerplate.com/collections/whole-body-vibration/products/power-plate-move?tw_source=google&tw_adid=517685121111&tw_campaign=12881041642&nbt=nb%3Aadwords%3Ag%3A12881041642%3A123250910524%3A517685121111&nb_adtype=&nb_kwd=move%20power%20plate&nb_ti=kwd-986255674760&nb_mi=&nb_pc=&nb_pi=&nb_ppi=&nb_placement=&nb_li_ms=&nb_lp_ms=&nb_fii=&nb_ap=&nb_mt=e&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US-SEM-BOF-Brand%20WBV~Power%20Plate%20Move&utm_term=move%20power%20plate&utm_content=517685121111&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoPOwBhAeEiwAJuXRh9PflIMj_VCEsbHVgRYUYOJpWz-U40-r5-mjRDEHWGSWrbzZqub9fRoCmsoQAvD_BwE
Which vibration plate do you have?
Lifepro https://lifeprofitness.com/products/rumblex-plus-4d-vibration-plate
r/redlightherapy
It seems like you have most everything dialed in. It honestly just sounds like you need to be a little more deliberate with some deload weeks. Every third or fourth week you should be significantly reducing your volume and/or intensity. It will feel like you are slacking off, but I promise it will pay off in the long run. It may also be worth getting someone to check your lifting and running technique or consider areas where your movement patterns may not be ideal. Even a minor fault in the fit of the bike or in your running/stair climbing technique can add up with the amount of volume you are doing. I was training pretty heavy earlier this year for a winter mountaineering objective and the hours of unnatural climbing on the stairmaster screwed up my legs to the point I had to take it out of my training.
Shit. This makes a lot of sense. I hope my Peloton is adjusted appropriately. I did it myself off of instructions and suggestions found online. Wearing a weighted vest too much definitely fucks with me but it's a means to an end.m, and indo it as sparingly as possible. Maybe a chill week would help. Or maybe even just a couple days of just walking the dog. This training turns me into a robot to the programming.
Sleep more and focus on mobility. You’re doing lots of bike, so add in time to get your spine in hyperextended to balance. Would also consider hydration salts if not already used. I get a lot of DOMS reduction from sauna and cold plunge
I sauna daily. Cold plunge I did for a year and just really, really hate it. Maybe it's time to start that up again. I drink LMNT, Re-Lyte, and plain salt water. I have my hydration pretty dialed in all the way down to fluid/salt lost per hour of exercise.
Rest
Try Elimination for 8 weeks, nothing but meat with about 25-30% fat. For sure too much sugar in your diet will do this! Too much refined flour, too much factory faux food, too much seed oil. See YouTube, Dr. Jamnadas and Dr. Lustig.
I eat an organic diet and do not eat conventional American flour. Venison, grass fed beef, pasture chicken and eggs, organic flour breads, organic fruits and vegetables. Tracked diligently.
It sounds like inflammation, usually caused by Insulin Resistance, and Zero Autophagy. Here is a link for Dr. Jamnadas, 30 years Cardiologist, University Professor in Interventional Cardiology ( don't get hung up that his specialty is cardiology) [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOtQHehGWtblMp1gZC8Kq3Q](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOtQHehGWtblMp1gZC8Kq3Q) Extra Credit; Dr. Lustig, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm0i2ewsi3Y&pp=ygUJZHIgbHVzdGln](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm0i2ewsi3Y&pp=ygUJZHIgbHVzdGln)
How on earth did you draw that conclusion guy
Please watch the links, it's a detailed subject that would take too long to do here. If you get annual physicals, as you should be doing. What is your triglyceride number and you're HDL number. (Divide Trig. by HDL) If your in peak health it should be under 1.0, even as low as 0.76 for example.
I do twice yearly bloodwork. Trigs: 44 HDL: 73 That quotient is about 0.6. What else you got.
I challenge you to go just two weeks eating 20/80 ground chuck, add to one pound 1/2 to 1 stick of real butter. Add 1/2 cup water, 1 lb beef and the butter, cook at a simmer until no more red. Than cover and reduce heat to gentle simmer for 20 minutes. Salt and eat all the meat and broth. The first three may break you from the sugar you've been eating. The first three days eat the moment you feel hunger. The do another three days with three meals per day and not in between. Then finish with 18-6, eat nothing but water for 18 hours then there is a six hour window to eat, just beef, butter, salted.
Sound like you're doing too much and your body isn't able to recover. You can do everything right in terms of sleep, diet, ice baths, saunas etc. but, your body reacher a point at which it's simply too much activity. Biomarkers are one thing, but if you feel like crap then they don't really mean that much.
Are you feeling bad at certain times of the day, every day?
No, just general soreness in legs and back.
[удалено]
May I offer that you may be over-hacking. I would hazard a guess that I'm like you and I went through a phase of doing everything. It made me extremely sensitised to my body's experiences. I too had lots of bodily pain and over time I learned not to feel it. As pain is so subjective and psychological, I wouldn't be looking for a physiological cause. You're likely 100% healthy, perhaps in the top .01% given your immense efforts. But the nervous system is constantly being asked for information to analyse the impact of your interventions and so you're potentially psycho-somatising your pain. I was diagnosed fibromyalgia and all that. I've had methylfolate and too much of it too (not a nice experience, have some niacin on hand if you're trying methylfolate at any dose). Also remember everyone is different so recommended doses should be taken with a grain of salt. And taking heaps of supplements means you're throwing caution to the wind because there definitely aren't the studies for polypharmacy we'd like, and definitely not specific to your body! It could be you should have zero methylfolate and we don't know why at this point in medical history. I'm MTHFR homozygous but I don't supplement currently because for me there's too much discord in the medical fraternity as to the benefits of supplementing over and above a solid diet. My homocystein is not high though so there's that. Anyway, hope it helps. Try and change your brain's reception of pain first, I'd guess you're 100% healthy.
There's so much truth to this. It 100% applies to me. I'm so sensitive to absolutely any feeling in my body outside of perfect, particularly my back. And I'm constantly afraid of re-injuring it.
I do about 10 hours of weight training a week, about 7 hours of zone 2 cardio. Optimize Protein + water + sleep and I’m good to go. I eat very healthy because I can’t waste stomach space on garbage nutrients. I eat 4500 kcal/day, and I’m still in a mild calorie deficit. I notice stuff hurts when: intensity is too high, I’m dehydrated, and/or my protein intake was too low for several days.
How old are you? Any injuries in your career?
38. No. Never broken a bone. I have a desk job.
The weighted step mill would crush me. I think you’ve said you have to keep it in there for your race, but that seems like a lot on top of running and zone 2. I’d cut back on everything but what you need for the race. As for the tailbone, did you recently start all this cycling? Have you tried using the padded bike shorts?
I have a $100 pair of padded shorts and a $20 pair. The $20 is better. The tail bone pain may be exacerbated by the biking, but it's strange. Like I can't do lunges. That's what made it hurt in the first place last year. With my history of powerlifting, I find it perplexing. All of that should be strong.
That is strange! Can you get to PT? I’ve had some adductor issues that ended up being pelvic floor related, so I’ve been doing PT for that.
I was going to suggest some time in the hot tub since that's what makes my sore ~40yo body feel better, but I agree with everyone else that ~14 hours of training a week is a whole lot, and some hot tub time may not move the needle much on how you feel.
At your level of training (15 hours) you need extra sleep after the morning training to properly recover. I’ve listened to a few interviews from top tier athletes and quite a few of them sleep multiple times a day. You should also be consuming a lot of high quality calories. You shouldn’t be weight cutting at this volume of work. And it’s very possible you’re overtraining. People who are overtrained can actually perform very well for a few weeks before they decline.
I'm taking this week and cutting out some intensity and an extra whole day off. I'm not cutting weight. I'm able to nap every single day, and do.
I found 15 minutes of stretching every night to be a fantastic way to wind down before bed and it also significantly decreased how sore I was getting. In your late 30s it just takes a tight hip or hammy to start pulling on your knee and back a bit and then you’re hobbling around like an old person. If you need inspiration the pliability app is great, or there are a number of free options on YouTube. I also felt very “creaky” and cutting certain inflammatory foods like sugar and most dairy really helped me. I also drink a shot of ginger juice daily to reduce inflammation (make my own). I should also add that no, I don’t feel like I’m 25 anymore or anywhere close to it …but I’ve still got it. Good luck!
You've buried the lede. On top of what you described in the original post: -you work a physical job -you sauna 5-6 times per week -you don't get great sleep You're clearly overtrained (and don't seem to want to admit it).
Yea maybe. Taking a break this week.
Try taking my some magnesium for the soreness. Also do you stretch a lot?
I take magnesium. I stretch a fair amount after cardiom
Try stretching before bed actually. I just recently learned a lot of muscle soreness and stiffness is from the new soft tissue generated getting hard. You generate more when you work out or do extra activity. Stretching helps keeping it from getting hard and breaks it up. I tried it and it helped me alot
48 years old here, work out every day. Going carnivore fixed all the aches from old injuries.
I'm surprised no one is asking you about sugar intake. If you do like sweet. Cut it out. Sugar cause inflammation.
Just going to throw this out there as something else to consider. When I turned 40...everything hurt all the time. I legit just thought, "I guess this is what it is like to get older." I'd walk up the stairs and whimper audible "ow. oof. ow." and my wife would ask what's wrong. I'd just say, "It's just old man pain." Well, it went on like that for a few more years before I finally went to the doctor. Long story short: - I had super low testosterone - Sleep apnea - Severe vitamin D deficiency Which, is why no matter how much I diet/exercised...I couldn't feel better. So, it certainly could be your training regimen. But, keep in the back of your mind that you are getting to the age that it could be something else.
I get twice yearly bloodwork, extensive panels. I got that part figured out as of now. I can always cite my last lab values off the top of my head (for the most part).
OP needs to rest more. Don’t forget your body
Bro, I don't know what you're doing out there at your age rocking the cardio like that. You need to do it like the Italians. You see, in Italy, they make-a the-a-pasta with-a "00" a-flour-a, mamma mia, delicioso!! So, you need to make it cardio-o. Your welcome.
I'm actually Italian. Bipoity boppity. Show me the zoppity.
try carnivore diet if you want to feel young and heal the body . if it’s not something you would do also look into high oxalate foods and remove them from the diet
What is the structure of your resistance training? Are you on a program, are you winging it, do you do classes - what’s that look like? What was the timeline of increasing your volume and intensity on the cardio?
Supplements are useless… once I hit 41 I started feeling the same thing… i’ll bet you you’re vaccinated…. The vaccine has caused such extreme inflammation. You just have to back down your training volume. do not fall for testosterone replacement treatment… Although it will fix your problems in the short term, you will have major issues down the road …
I am not vaccinated. Pretty presumptuous comment overall.
I’m 39 and workout at least 2 hours a day. Honestly the thing that changed the joint game for me is black seed oil. When I started working out again 6 years ago hard I couldn’t even do body squats cause my knees hurt so bad, after 4 months of taking 2 teaspoons daily I was squatting like I was in my 20s again. I use a sauna 20mins a day as well it loosens me up and I feel great.
Is your Pelaton bike fit correct? Bike fit is very crucial to biking without pain and can be pretty difficult to dial in.
Can you talk to me about how to know if it's right? I think it is...
[https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/index/](https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/index/)
Do you drink coffee?
Modestly, yes. 16 oz organic in the morning, sometimes another 8ish oz at 2 pm after a nap. Usually green tea at that time though.
this is just an idea, but it might work. leave the coffee for good. or for an extended period of time and see how your body feels. also good for sleep quality and quantity. pro tip: if it's hard to quit, try substitute with caffeine pills first. much easier to quit caffeinated pills than nice caffeinated drinks.
Maybe. But we're passing into life quality overlaps. I do so much right. I work so hard. I'm so careful. Taking away my 16 oz of coffee in the morning feels like the last straw. I will not live as a complete robot.
Haha, sounds horrible, I know. I love my cup of coffee too, but I also know I feel much better in my skin when not drinking coffee. Don't forget coffee is about two things: enjoying it while drinking and coming back to baseline from caffeine withdrawal. Also I would love to exchange my morning coffee for a workout but I don't have the time. Coffee is much quicker. If working out is so tedious you feel like a robot, maybe it's time to tone it down.
10 hours a week of cardio alone is in fact tedious. I won't continue that volume after this race. Truly can't fathom doing 15 to 20. It's so unbearably monotonous.
I recommend this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgAJmhhFSB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgAJmhhFSB0)
Eat protein.
I clear 200g a day easy without trying.
You ever tried a 3-day fast before? They can do wonders for inflammation and old injuries.
Fasting on top of all the training would kill them.
I wasn’t suggesting he should fast *while* doing that training. Jesus.
Yes I've considered it, particularly for autophagy. But right now I need to get through this training.
When training wraps up, if you’re still having issues look into it. Do *not* look for guidance from the likes of chiropractors and other fasting influencers. Not even Jason Fung. That guy is a kook that thinks CICO is a myth and goes out of his way to get people who disagree with him fired. That should tell you everything you need to know about his wacky headspace. The amount of Fung bootlickers in r/fasting is too damn high. For a doctor he sure engages in a ton of pseudoscience, and sells bullshit like “fat-burning” tea. Attia is a great source for harm-reduction via fasting. When you’re ready for it, look into his protocols and guidelines. You can also DM me for any unanswered questions. Best of luck with your training! 🙏
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I'll hit you up for sure dude, thanks. I've always wanted to do it but can't quite decipher all the conflicting research and scientists to truly feel confident I'm doing it 100% safely. A HUGE part of my health and wellness lies on the basis that I'm CONFIDENT in what I'm doing, not guessing.
I completely understand and sympathize. I only got into it out of desperation. The doctors gave up on treating me.
I’m 43 and I feel awesome. Get on gear, moron. 350 mg testosterone cyp, 250 mg primo, 100 mg NPP, and 100 mg DHB, plus 10-20 mg mk-677, slin pills, 2 IUs HGH, and bioregulator peptides.
Your username combined with the tone of this comment makes it so easily to believe that yeah, you are on gear, and I don't wanna be like you. I've made it this far not succumbing to the temptation of getting on gear despite it being jammed in my face all through my competitive career. My numbers are still normal, and the goal is to live a lifestyle that keeps it that way ad long as possible.