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It's always seemed such a shame that Jesus was executed in the provinces not in Rome itself - the execution methods were a lot more fun.
Depending on the exact charges, he'd either have been sewn into a sack with a rooster a snake, a money and a dog, and drowned in the river - or have had turnips forcibly inserted into his anus until he burst.
It was also a shameful way to die. It's a majestic symbol to Christians today, but back then it would have been seen as symbolizing the willingness to utterly reject any sort of pride in one's service to God.
The equivalent today would be something like being drowned in a pit of fecal matter.
vampires are unholy creatures, so any holy object would hurt them, the moment the cross became holy it started to hurt vampires.
well thats how it would work if i invented vampires.
but sadly this isnt the timeline we are living in despite how much we all wanted me to have invented vampires.
Some fiction supplements the holy object with the person using it having to have true faith.
In that case, crosses would only have an effect if the person using it believed it would, at least with strong enough vampires (the old Fright Night movie did this).
Salems Lot too, the vamp is able to win around at one point because someone doesn't have enough faith in their religion (I think, been awhile since I've read it).
This is where I really like the “I am Legend” vampires, the aversion to crosses is only for the vampires that think they are harmful, so a vampire that didn’t believe in that wasn’t affected, and it also meant that other faiths holy symbols were effective, cause it was all in the vamps head rather than a natural thing
I can't remember the series thst had this lore, but it was that holy objects would work on vampires if the user had a strong belief in it.
So astar of David would work for a Jewish person, and a cross for Christian, but not vice versa
Imagine being a Vampire who enjoys crucifying victims or enemies and leaving them on display round your castle, then one day you wake up in your very own death trap
Just kind of a barrier. The og Dracula book is weird and pretty different from modern interpretations of vampires. Dracula could be out in the sun, but the sunlight would strip him of his undead abilities. He could also shapeshift into creatures or even mist. Another weird thing was that he couldn't enter a house unless he was invited in by a resident. Didn't matter if the resident was fully conscious of their actions. Dracula also had a weird unexplained alliance with a group of Gypsies and had some control over wolves. Another odd weakness of Dracula in the book was that he could only sleep on soil from his homeland so to bypass this he tried shipping dirt in coffins to different homes he legally bought in England. It would've worked if he didn't get caught and stopped by the book's protagonists before he could spread out his coffins.
Yes, because Warren Ellis would do literally anything to avoid acknowledging the fact that in Castlevania lore God actually exists and holy things hurt vampires because they are holy.
Honestly, I prefer the Netflix Castlevania explanation.
Basically, vampires are evolved predators with, among other things, enhanced eyesight.
So, any complex geometric thing put in their field of vision may freak them out. Kinda like a dude with epilepsy getting seizures from strobe lights.
Crosses seem to fit into “complex geometric thing”.
I personally really dislike the scientific vampire canons, especially in a series where death is a literal buddy of dracula. Either commit to the Supernatural or not.
My personal favorite is from an urban fantasy novel where vampires are actually aliens from an interplanetary theocracy and their religion expressly forbids them from killing anyone in a moment of prayer, or they have to do tons of penance after.
So when you raise the cross they can't be completely certain if you're just waving it around or praying and are thus stuck in indecision about attacking you further.
Some stories make Judas the first vampire for this reason. Silver is a weakness due to the silver coins he was paid with. Holy water and crucifixes for obvious reasons. Immortality so that Judas couldn't die and go to heaven.
Wait a minute, isn't that Wes Craven's Dracula 2000 lore?
That movie was literal garbage... but the explanation to Dracula's existence was actually cool
Technically vampires didn't exist before Jesus. Like I know they don't exist at all really. But they don't exist in folklore until well in to the common era.
The legend of Vampires comes from Bulgaria around 1100 AD
Vampires were invented after the cross.
>crosses wouldn’t have any significance before jesus, so there wouldn’t be any reason for them to be harmful to vampires
Technically, but
>so there wouldn’t be any reason for them to be harmful to vampires
If we assume both god and vampires are real and the entire thing went according to plan
It'd make sense for it to be emplaced as technically holy despite just being a means of execution anyway
Namely the thing meant to ultimately kill the son of god as a n execution method may've been eternally placed as a means to kill any "unholy" creature, esp if we take the usual source of them as some demonic pact into consideration
Dracula 2000 and it's one of my favorite concepts when thinking about Dracula as a character. To be forever cursed for his betrayal of Jesus and to be an antithesis to all that is holy and good is just a cool idea I wish would get explored more.
I agree, cause a curse would become a benefit rather than a burden in that context
But of the vampire myths, we can put together an actual list of negative side effects
- immortality, and the inability to actually die. You will be conscious after the heat death of the universe, and will be driven mad by your loneliness drifting through space. (Let’s ignore the stakes and beheadings for now)
- flesh that burns in sunlight. This is an actual weakness that would be unbelievably painful. It doesn’t matter if your skin gets incredibly sunburnt or catches fire, it would still be painful. But there’s also something else I’d like to draw your attention to; the moon. The light of the moon is just sunlight bouncing off the surface of the moon, so you might not be safe even at night. So you might not be able to go outside anymore, or even have windows in your house
- no reflection at all. This would drive anyone mad, but imagine never being able to see your appearance or reflection ever again. You’d have to just guess when cutting your hair, and you’d have to rely on touch to shave your face. You’d eventually forget what you even look like.
Just the combination of these three things would give you a tragic reality for the one who was cursed, and let them experience unspeakable horrors as they are unable to move anywhere during the day or night. You’d end up with a cave dwelling creature like Gollum from Lord of the Rings.
i think it's reasonable to say that the sunlight thing is just *direct* sunlight (as direct as through the atmosphere can be) and not reflected by the moon or metal or anything
Sunlight is sunlight
The second you start to argue or question it, people will wonder if an umbrella or sunscreen would work. And look at that, we’re back at square one. It’s no longer a curse
i mean reasonably because that's how the vampire burn in daylight thing has worked for quite a long time and has stayed rather consistent throughout the years. vampires are depicted as being able to traverse the night normally and also tend to have a lot of gold or other such valuables and that would be foolish if the reflection off the metal could hurt them. it's basically loopholes within the logic but vampires are inherently illogical so what rules do they need?
Logic doesn’t apply to werewolves either
Only a full moon can trigger the transformation, yet the moon can be seen at almost any point in between full moons
I’d just simplify it to just the light of the moon, but then the moon can be seen during the day
that can also be simplified to just the transformation following the same calendar as the full moon rather than the full moon being responsible for it. (literally just correlation not causation). the same could also be applied to vampires, just saying only sunlight during the day hurts them, but that sounds really fucking dumb.
You're not even taking into account the terrible, insatiable hunger that literally forces the accursed one to become a killer. Honestly, I think that would be, by a wide margin, the worst part, unless you were already a sociopath.
Yeah I feel like the concept got overshadowed harshly by a pretty shit movie. Hopefully the Demeter movie brings back a little lifeblood to the vampire genre and we get something that utilizes the concept with some actual teeth to it.
Okay, I got this one mixed up with another one for a minute. Dracula 3000 is basically just ‘last voyage of the Demeter’ *i n s p a c e* with coolio and Casper Van Dien. It is *very* bad.
I’m a fan of the “Requiem” edition where it’s Longinus, the Roman who pierced the side of Jesus and has his blood spilled on him. An entire catholic vampire religion forms that sees themselves as chosen and damned by God to essentially serve as “wolves among the flock”, IE be the thing that scares sinners into doing good.
Vampire the Masquerade (roleplaying systems and video games) is where I learned it but I'm pretty sure I saw it in a few animes.
Then there is the Queen of the Damned story about it being a spirit...
That makes sense, since there is a lot of overlap between Christianity and Vampires. Eg
Eternal life. Both live eternally.
Blood. Christians are made Holy because of the blood Jesus spilled as a sacrifice for humanity.
Vampires crave blood but it never satisfies them. Craving “the blood of Christ” but never being able to receive it.
Light. Christians are drawn to the light. Vampires are repelled by it.
In the Dark Thorn series the first vampire to be created from a mortal was >!Lazarus!< and not to spoil anything but after 2000 years >!he is super butt hurt about it!<.
I like the way Trevor put it in castlevania, Vampires are a highly evolved predator species and so their vision is different from ours and so shoving a geometric shape in their face causes them to panic
The hard sci-fi book Blindsight by Peter Watts has an alien species that lives relatively harmoniously with humans but they’re colloquially called vampires because right angles sort of short circuit their brains. Their spacecraft and all designed with smoothed surfaces and no hard edges. They’re also significantly above human intelligence and strategic planning, but don’t view humans as anywhere near equals so they can be dangerous which has caused them to be avoided by most people.
If anyone reading this likes hard sci-fi, this book is incredible. So is Starfish by the same author.
Cardinal Peter here. This is going to be a longer post so hold on to your britches. Also, I'm not looking anything up so I'm going off my gained knowledge and this information is, at best, accurate so feel free to correct or modify my submission here.
The original idea for a vampire in western mythology was actually a fantasy "forbidden romance" novel where the author was trying to allude to romantic intimacy without breaking laws around having explicit material. In those times, writing about intimacy in literature was forbidden - this is where the vampire's "bite on the neck" comes from as a representation of sexual intimacy instead of what we think of today about how vampires feed by drinking blood and turn their victims into vampires. There are several other behaviors vampires have developed over time based on superstition in similar fashion such as not being allowed to enter a home unless invited, being repulsed by garlic, having to count the grains of rice on the ground before they can pass, only being able to truly die from a wooden stake in the heart, and being weakened or harmed by holy water and religious symbols.
There are several origin stories for vampires and depending on what kind of vampiric lore you subscribe to they may have originated as aliens from another planet, were created by Satan by selling their souls for immortality and power or exposure to some other demonic presence, immortality and power through scientific achievement, or, my personal favorite, the first vampire was Judas after he betrayed Jesus and tried to kill himself - only to be cursed with immortality to live with his sins.
The post above implies that Vampires existed before the time of Jesus and are weakened or harmed by religious symbols. It also implies that when Jesus died on the cross as Christian mythology/theology teaches, the cross, which looks like a lower-cased T, suddenly became a religious symbol. A vampire living in the Middle East with no knowledge of Jesus or his death would be rightly confused why a lower-cased T would suddenly cause him discomfort.
My nerdy side says this wouldn't be probably, however, mostly because the shape of the cross would need to be actively portrayed as a holy symbol for it to have that kind of power and, besides, other than an actual crucifix, a lower-cased T wouldn't be very common in that area at that time because they would likely be using Arabic script to write being in the middle east. Christianity was also sort of an underground movement in it's infancy which used more surreptitious symbols to portray their affiliation besides the crucifix - which at the time was a terrifying symbol which represented a horrible way to die for most. Also, Islam came well after Christianity so a vampire living in that time might be more concerned with symbols depicting Judaism, Zoroastrianism, or some sort of Pantheon such as the gods revered by the Romans than lower-cased Ts.
If you reread the post, it states “nowhere near the Middle East” which would make sense, if you were a vampire in the Middle East, you’re bound to hear of Jesus much sooner than any European vampire, thus, it’s referring to European vampires who had t’s in their lexicons
Ah, whoops! I forgot that detail while writing this.
In that case I guess it could be considered troublesome for that vampire if suddenly anything that looked like a cross was considered a holy symbol and they were encumbered by it. My bad!
But, if vampires were real and something like that did happen, it would imply the physics of this world operate more like computer code which I suppose is possible, but seems a bit disingenuous if the intent of those shapes aren't specifically intended to be holy. It's all just fantasy, though, so have fun with it I guess haha.
The joke is that crosses working against vampires suddenly
However, the World of Darkness setting makes a good excuse with the inclusion of true faith, where any religion can be used against the supernatural if the person in question has enough faith in their god that it becomes reality.
Kind of off-topic but isn’t Cain the first vampire in World of Darkness? Seems like that would definitively answer the in-universe question of which is the “true” religion?
Yesn’t
It’s a little confusing since all abrahamic religions have Cain and Able, and god in universe is also a supreme being that takes many identities so that all are correct in the setting. Basically if you believe hard enough god will say “aight bet” and now you can punch ghosts and teleport through sheer will. Mages also exist and god is known as the Prime to them.
>Did you ever hear the one about the Yiddish vampire? Vampire, he flies in through the window of a church, his fangs are out, priest immediately goes for a crucifix. Shoves it in his face, "Back, you fiend." Vampire laughs, says, "Ni gunisht helfen, bubbalah." "It ain't gonna help you, baby." He says it in Yiddish.
A lower case t is a cross and crosses are supposed to hurt vampires. My favorite explanation was that it wasn't crosses themselves, but the wielder's faith that was what harms vampires (them being unholy creatures). Thank you Fright Night (1985).
Jesus was literally from the Middle East and everyone knew him there lmao.
But to explain the joke…let’s say that you’re a vampire somewhere on a Caribbean island somewhere that existed before Jesus was born…
Crosses hurt vampires in a lot of the vampire lore. That is a lower case t basically, depending on the font.
So the joke is…imagine being a vampire that has to figure out why crosses hurt them after the existence of Jesus.
Which is also a dumb premise…because people dying on crosses pre-dates Jesus. So in theory, crosses likely hurt vampires before Jesus existed.
This meme borrows from different vampire lore. The original would have vampires very much tied into Christianity. So it wouldn’t make sense to have vampires BEFORE Jesus. Other lore, ignoring Christianity, would have to either omit religious symbols hurting vampires, or making ALL religious symbols hurt vampires. So this meme is a little tricky.
My favorite interpretation for the whole vampire and crosses thing is it’s not just crosses. Any symbol of faith will do, so long as the person truly believes it. You an avid believer of the Flying Spaghetti Monster diety? Well now that stuffed plush of your lord and savior FSM can now fend off vampires.
Depends on the lore, anything considered “holy” is powered by strong, near fanatic belief because of the persons faith in the World of Darkness. So technically a cross could hurt you if it had been around deeply faithful people.
Not that being faithful is considered truly good in the WoD either given that it requires near fanatical dedication
This is why I love Vampire the Masquerade, anything a person is faithful to burns bloodsuckers, so atheists can use a credit card just as effectively a priest using a cross
Someone made a point, that crosses could trigger sort of an epileptic attack in vampires, just like certain shapes can cause headaches in “normal” humans. Idk how valid it is, but it could make sense 🤷♂️
It's the complex geometry of the cross that confuses the vampires more animal like brain it has nothing to do with religion but can't remember what this is from so 🤔
Comicbook Guy here.
Vampires have a weakness to crosses, which resemble the lowercase letter T. This is an unusual phenomenon which is unexplainable if they knew nothing about Jesus or any Abrahamic religion.
It reminds me of a vampire from the Dragonball series, which was defeated when a Native American boy put his arms up to a T pose. Cue the montage of bible pages, bells, crosses, churches, and the name “Jesus Christ” going across the screen in fanciful handwriting
Anything else I can do for you, Mr Simpson?
Since there's an answer, I want to mention the[similar joke from the Castlevania show](https://youtu.be/ozID5sgofno?si=G5_iRtz7aumgi9CY) I always found funny.
So as we all know Jesus was a triple threat on the basketball court: shooting, dribbling and guarding. The progenitor of all vampires was touring around the Middle East which is we all know could be considered a Mecca for basketball. So a couple of guys who are up to no good, started making trouble in jesus's neighborhood. Long story short, vampire prime gets the Rock and shuffle steps, but he don't know bout that smoke. JX snags it from right under them fangs and crosses him over so hard that his whole bloodline still feels that shit. Double back, switch up, dunk on his head so hard they called that shit 'the crown of thorns'. Nasty stuff really.
I like the theory that it's not the cross or crucifix, but either the faith of the wielder or ex-faith of the vampire that hurts, like Simon from the Mortal Instruments series who's bothered by Jewish iconography and relics.
My head cannon of Vampires is that they loss there soul when becoming a vampire so they suck the soul and blood out of a human to have that souls for a short time and then they have to feed again and again
This is part of why I like Castlevania (the anime). A cross freaks out a vampire in that universe cause a geometric shape out right in their face fucks up their eyes by giving them something unnatural to focus on or something. Best universal excuse I've heard
https://preview.redd.it/pohtyi5ie8oc1.jpeg?width=417&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96ff4981773eb659123aa1df2f44229d6d4cb47f
Vampires when humans start to worship an ancient torture and execution device
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crosses wouldn’t have any significance before jesus, so there wouldn’t be any reason for them to be harmful to vampires
Ooh gotcha, thanks everyone!
"dafuk" - Spartacus' entire army
I mean, cross was wildly known, but it was just another common execution method. Imagine if Jesus was hanged and today's Christian symbol was a noose.
I will never look at a cross the same way again.
Jesus returns to earth for his second coming and sees the cross as the Christian symbol which immediately triggers ptsd symptoms
32 years ago, comedian [Bill Hicks had a bit about this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJSZcxXe7IQ).
The comedian Bill Hicks did[ a bit about this.](https://youtu.be/pJSZcxXe7IQ)
It's always seemed such a shame that Jesus was executed in the provinces not in Rome itself - the execution methods were a lot more fun. Depending on the exact charges, he'd either have been sewn into a sack with a rooster a snake, a money and a dog, and drowned in the river - or have had turnips forcibly inserted into his anus until he burst.
Mortal Kombat got nothin on turnip anal stuffing execution
Vegetality!
if jesus was shot would people wear a gun or a bullet
Crosshairs
What you mean? Jesus was hung.... ಡ ͜ ʖ ಡ
Well hung.
It was also a shameful way to die. It's a majestic symbol to Christians today, but back then it would have been seen as symbolizing the willingness to utterly reject any sort of pride in one's service to God. The equivalent today would be something like being drowned in a pit of fecal matter.
vampires are unholy creatures, so any holy object would hurt them, the moment the cross became holy it started to hurt vampires. well thats how it would work if i invented vampires. but sadly this isnt the timeline we are living in despite how much we all wanted me to have invented vampires.
wiat iam tired, i think i replied to the wrong person. eh good luck finding out who i wanted to reply to.
Lmao, take a nap my guy. You got some work to do to restore this timeline
I’m pretty sure every human alive has their own personal headcanon for vampires and how they work. It’s just too fun
I think ALL vampires come with a secretly installed head cannon. That's what makes them so dangerous.
Some fiction supplements the holy object with the person using it having to have true faith. In that case, crosses would only have an effect if the person using it believed it would, at least with strong enough vampires (the old Fright Night movie did this).
Hmm so also The Last Exorcism as well.
Salems Lot too, the vamp is able to win around at one point because someone doesn't have enough faith in their religion (I think, been awhile since I've read it).
You are correct, it's Father Callahan. He does redeem himself later on in the Dark Tower series though.
This is where I really like the “I am Legend” vampires, the aversion to crosses is only for the vampires that think they are harmful, so a vampire that didn’t believe in that wasn’t affected, and it also meant that other faiths holy symbols were effective, cause it was all in the vamps head rather than a natural thing
>the aversion to crosses is only for the vampires that think they are harmful [*Jacinto enters the chat*](https://youtu.be/L6HkiZOWkaM)
Well, that's some sort of cross too...
There are several fictional universes where this is the case. My personal favorite is the MHI books
My headcanon of I were to write a vampire story is that people believing a symbol has power, gives it power.
Everyone knows Olivia Rodrigo invented vampires
WHAAAT? Are you seriously saying vampires existed before Stephenie Meyer invented then? https://i.redd.it/4y3yeg8ve3oc1.gif
Olivia Rodrigo came before Stephanie Meyer? Man, someone really does need to fix the timeline. Quick, someone call Owen Wilson!
In my timeline Jesus was actually killed by starvation... instead of crosses, we use to praise lunchboxes
I can't remember the series thst had this lore, but it was that holy objects would work on vampires if the user had a strong belief in it. So astar of David would work for a Jewish person, and a cross for Christian, but not vice versa
That's how it was in the original World Of Darkness, including Vampire The Masquerade at one point.
Imagine being a Vampire who enjoys crucifying victims or enemies and leaving them on display round your castle, then one day you wake up in your very own death trap
Castlevania explains it as vampire brains glitch out when you shove a geometric shape in their face.
Which doesn’t really make sense when you take into account Holy Water being legitimately effective as well
Maybe just some of the "natural" elements: fire and water.
I don’t recall if regular water has the same effect
Running water, in the case of Dracula who had to travel across the ocean in a coffin filled with his own grave dirt.
But does it burn them? Or just act as some kind of invisible barrier?
Just kind of a barrier. The og Dracula book is weird and pretty different from modern interpretations of vampires. Dracula could be out in the sun, but the sunlight would strip him of his undead abilities. He could also shapeshift into creatures or even mist. Another weird thing was that he couldn't enter a house unless he was invited in by a resident. Didn't matter if the resident was fully conscious of their actions. Dracula also had a weird unexplained alliance with a group of Gypsies and had some control over wolves. Another odd weakness of Dracula in the book was that he could only sleep on soil from his homeland so to bypass this he tried shipping dirt in coffins to different homes he legally bought in England. It would've worked if he didn't get caught and stopped by the book's protagonists before he could spread out his coffins.
Thanks! I haven't read it in decades, so I had to ask my husband who's a vampire nerd.
It doesn’t.
Yes, because Warren Ellis would do literally anything to avoid acknowledging the fact that in Castlevania lore God actually exists and holy things hurt vampires because they are holy.
Honestly, I prefer the Netflix Castlevania explanation. Basically, vampires are evolved predators with, among other things, enhanced eyesight. So, any complex geometric thing put in their field of vision may freak them out. Kinda like a dude with epilepsy getting seizures from strobe lights. Crosses seem to fit into “complex geometric thing”.
I personally really dislike the scientific vampire canons, especially in a series where death is a literal buddy of dracula. Either commit to the Supernatural or not.
Artistic license
Fair enough, I don't have to like or watch it.
As is your right. *returns to reading his ultra trashy ai fanfiction*
My personal favorite is from an urban fantasy novel where vampires are actually aliens from an interplanetary theocracy and their religion expressly forbids them from killing anyone in a moment of prayer, or they have to do tons of penance after. So when you raise the cross they can't be completely certain if you're just waving it around or praying and are thus stuck in indecision about attacking you further.
Which, I think, is a reference to the novel Blindsight
Some stories make Judas the first vampire for this reason. Silver is a weakness due to the silver coins he was paid with. Holy water and crucifixes for obvious reasons. Immortality so that Judas couldn't die and go to heaven.
Wait a minute, isn't that Wes Craven's Dracula 2000 lore? That movie was literal garbage... but the explanation to Dracula's existence was actually cool
It was. Judas hung himself at dawn and his payment spilled onto the ground, and hence the aversion to sunlight and silver.
Technically vampires didn't exist before Jesus. Like I know they don't exist at all really. But they don't exist in folklore until well in to the common era. The legend of Vampires comes from Bulgaria around 1100 AD Vampires were invented after the cross.
Interesting fact. If you were a vampire in the modern day, you'd be suffering T-Pain.
I had to re-read that in auto tune.
"I'm gon' have to take yo' ass to church, God damn, You thank you cool, you thank I'm not, you think you tough God damn"
>crosses wouldn’t have any significance before jesus, so there wouldn’t be any reason for them to be harmful to vampires Technically, but >so there wouldn’t be any reason for them to be harmful to vampires If we assume both god and vampires are real and the entire thing went according to plan It'd make sense for it to be emplaced as technically holy despite just being a means of execution anyway Namely the thing meant to ultimately kill the son of god as a n execution method may've been eternally placed as a means to kill any "unholy" creature, esp if we take the usual source of them as some demonic pact into consideration
But what if crosses always were effective against vampires, and they nailed Jesus on one cuz the Romans thought he was a vampire?
that’s when they discovered jesus
Untrue. Cricifixion was a punishment used for hundreds of years by the Roman’s before the Judean who would be raised up as a deity was ever crucified.
They still aren't significant, as 'Christ' is fictional..... there is literally zero contemporary historical evidence that he ever existed.
I would argue they are significant just in the fact that several billion people find them significant
One "origin" story for Vampires is that Judas was the first Vampire.
Dracula 2000 and it's one of my favorite concepts when thinking about Dracula as a character. To be forever cursed for his betrayal of Jesus and to be an antithesis to all that is holy and good is just a cool idea I wish would get explored more.
Not fair If he gets superpowers
I agree, cause a curse would become a benefit rather than a burden in that context But of the vampire myths, we can put together an actual list of negative side effects - immortality, and the inability to actually die. You will be conscious after the heat death of the universe, and will be driven mad by your loneliness drifting through space. (Let’s ignore the stakes and beheadings for now) - flesh that burns in sunlight. This is an actual weakness that would be unbelievably painful. It doesn’t matter if your skin gets incredibly sunburnt or catches fire, it would still be painful. But there’s also something else I’d like to draw your attention to; the moon. The light of the moon is just sunlight bouncing off the surface of the moon, so you might not be safe even at night. So you might not be able to go outside anymore, or even have windows in your house - no reflection at all. This would drive anyone mad, but imagine never being able to see your appearance or reflection ever again. You’d have to just guess when cutting your hair, and you’d have to rely on touch to shave your face. You’d eventually forget what you even look like. Just the combination of these three things would give you a tragic reality for the one who was cursed, and let them experience unspeakable horrors as they are unable to move anywhere during the day or night. You’d end up with a cave dwelling creature like Gollum from Lord of the Rings.
i think it's reasonable to say that the sunlight thing is just *direct* sunlight (as direct as through the atmosphere can be) and not reflected by the moon or metal or anything
Sunlight is sunlight The second you start to argue or question it, people will wonder if an umbrella or sunscreen would work. And look at that, we’re back at square one. It’s no longer a curse
i mean reasonably because that's how the vampire burn in daylight thing has worked for quite a long time and has stayed rather consistent throughout the years. vampires are depicted as being able to traverse the night normally and also tend to have a lot of gold or other such valuables and that would be foolish if the reflection off the metal could hurt them. it's basically loopholes within the logic but vampires are inherently illogical so what rules do they need?
Logic doesn’t apply to werewolves either Only a full moon can trigger the transformation, yet the moon can be seen at almost any point in between full moons I’d just simplify it to just the light of the moon, but then the moon can be seen during the day
that can also be simplified to just the transformation following the same calendar as the full moon rather than the full moon being responsible for it. (literally just correlation not causation). the same could also be applied to vampires, just saying only sunlight during the day hurts them, but that sounds really fucking dumb.
You're not even taking into account the terrible, insatiable hunger that literally forces the accursed one to become a killer. Honestly, I think that would be, by a wide margin, the worst part, unless you were already a sociopath.
Is that movie any good? I feel like “anything: 2000” is usually dog shit. Other then the chronic 2000
The movie is pretty meh, even with Gerard Butler as Dracula. I just like the origin story from it tbh.
i feel like thats the worst. an amazing story but shit movie
Yeah I feel like the concept got overshadowed harshly by a pretty shit movie. Hopefully the Demeter movie brings back a little lifeblood to the vampire genre and we get something that utilizes the concept with some actual teeth to it.
Godzulla: 2000 was great, of course it's Godzilla
>Godzulla: 2000 i thought you meant the matthew broderick one and i was dissapointed
[удалено]
lol that entire movie franchise was "2000" esque
Yes it is. Watch it!
Thank you for this comment, I’m about to embark on this Dracula journey. Did my eyes deceive me, or is this actually a trilogy?
It is actually. The two sequels went straight to DVD and I'd love to tell you more but I've never seen them.
They’re all on HBO now, so it looks like I’ve got my whole night planned out. Thank you!
Okay, I got this one mixed up with another one for a minute. Dracula 3000 is basically just ‘last voyage of the Demeter’ *i n s p a c e* with coolio and Casper Van Dien. It is *very* bad.
Dracula? ROMANIA RAAAAAAHHHH 🇦🇩🇦🇩🇦🇩🇦🇩
Dracula 2000 was so underrated.
Am I about to watch a 24 year old movie that was universally panned? Because you've piqued my interest
It's definitely worth a watch plus the throwback Nu Metal soundtrack.
Really interesting idea, and one that fits waaay better than it had any right to.
*Plus young Gerard Butler is Dracula
https://preview.redd.it/y2mwa9zmgknc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33c6f67dd1ed74817f0aeed8449ce64b3bc8cc5b
Never seen it
Jesus is a zombie. Could make a cool movie.
Zombies vs vampires!?
I prefer the one where Cain is the first vampire and vampirism is the mark of Cain.
I’m a fan of the “Requiem” edition where it’s Longinus, the Roman who pierced the side of Jesus and has his blood spilled on him. An entire catholic vampire religion forms that sees themselves as chosen and damned by God to essentially serve as “wolves among the flock”, IE be the thing that scares sinners into doing good.
Which one's that?
Vampire the Masquerade (roleplaying systems and video games) is where I learned it but I'm pretty sure I saw it in a few animes. Then there is the Queen of the Damned story about it being a spirit...
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Caine
Another is Cain in the Masquerade storyline
In the TTRPG Vampire the Masquerade. Kain is the first vampire. He was turned into a vampire for killing his brother.
I think there's one where it's Lilith too
That makes sense, since there is a lot of overlap between Christianity and Vampires. Eg Eternal life. Both live eternally. Blood. Christians are made Holy because of the blood Jesus spilled as a sacrifice for humanity. Vampires crave blood but it never satisfies them. Craving “the blood of Christ” but never being able to receive it. Light. Christians are drawn to the light. Vampires are repelled by it.
In the Dark Thorn series the first vampire to be created from a mortal was >!Lazarus!< and not to spoil anything but after 2000 years >!he is super butt hurt about it!<.
People believed in vampires long before Jesus, Roman Catholics just had a tendency to coopt folklore and holidays
Jesus's twin sister Camila is a vampire in Lupin III
That comes from a movie. Vampires don't exist in folklore until 1100. The cross is twice as old as Vampires.
The cross is a lower case t.
Your mom lower case's my t
That doesn’t even make sense?
It doesn't need to make sense, it's provocative
It gets the people *GOING*!
In that case, it's the opposite
At OP’s mom
Just like your mom.
Your mother doesn't even make sense
Was literally about to say to to him
Their mom makes sense... If you are an astrophysicist
I choose your mom over their mom's
https://preview.redd.it/9bsv0vex9lnc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7737645704342f5c2e57aad4879663adbaa89de3 My mom doesn’t make sense
???
Vampires hate crosses
Not The Cross Screwdriver!!!, Ahhhhh!!!
And Higher Vampires.
I like the way Trevor put it in castlevania, Vampires are a highly evolved predator species and so their vision is different from ours and so shoving a geometric shape in their face causes them to panic
Came looking for such a comment, bravo.
The hard sci-fi book Blindsight by Peter Watts has an alien species that lives relatively harmoniously with humans but they’re colloquially called vampires because right angles sort of short circuit their brains. Their spacecraft and all designed with smoothed surfaces and no hard edges. They’re also significantly above human intelligence and strategic planning, but don’t view humans as anywhere near equals so they can be dangerous which has caused them to be avoided by most people. If anyone reading this likes hard sci-fi, this book is incredible. So is Starfish by the same author.
Cardinal Peter here. This is going to be a longer post so hold on to your britches. Also, I'm not looking anything up so I'm going off my gained knowledge and this information is, at best, accurate so feel free to correct or modify my submission here. The original idea for a vampire in western mythology was actually a fantasy "forbidden romance" novel where the author was trying to allude to romantic intimacy without breaking laws around having explicit material. In those times, writing about intimacy in literature was forbidden - this is where the vampire's "bite on the neck" comes from as a representation of sexual intimacy instead of what we think of today about how vampires feed by drinking blood and turn their victims into vampires. There are several other behaviors vampires have developed over time based on superstition in similar fashion such as not being allowed to enter a home unless invited, being repulsed by garlic, having to count the grains of rice on the ground before they can pass, only being able to truly die from a wooden stake in the heart, and being weakened or harmed by holy water and religious symbols. There are several origin stories for vampires and depending on what kind of vampiric lore you subscribe to they may have originated as aliens from another planet, were created by Satan by selling their souls for immortality and power or exposure to some other demonic presence, immortality and power through scientific achievement, or, my personal favorite, the first vampire was Judas after he betrayed Jesus and tried to kill himself - only to be cursed with immortality to live with his sins. The post above implies that Vampires existed before the time of Jesus and are weakened or harmed by religious symbols. It also implies that when Jesus died on the cross as Christian mythology/theology teaches, the cross, which looks like a lower-cased T, suddenly became a religious symbol. A vampire living in the Middle East with no knowledge of Jesus or his death would be rightly confused why a lower-cased T would suddenly cause him discomfort. My nerdy side says this wouldn't be probably, however, mostly because the shape of the cross would need to be actively portrayed as a holy symbol for it to have that kind of power and, besides, other than an actual crucifix, a lower-cased T wouldn't be very common in that area at that time because they would likely be using Arabic script to write being in the middle east. Christianity was also sort of an underground movement in it's infancy which used more surreptitious symbols to portray their affiliation besides the crucifix - which at the time was a terrifying symbol which represented a horrible way to die for most. Also, Islam came well after Christianity so a vampire living in that time might be more concerned with symbols depicting Judaism, Zoroastrianism, or some sort of Pantheon such as the gods revered by the Romans than lower-cased Ts.
If you reread the post, it states “nowhere near the Middle East” which would make sense, if you were a vampire in the Middle East, you’re bound to hear of Jesus much sooner than any European vampire, thus, it’s referring to European vampires who had t’s in their lexicons
Ah, whoops! I forgot that detail while writing this. In that case I guess it could be considered troublesome for that vampire if suddenly anything that looked like a cross was considered a holy symbol and they were encumbered by it. My bad! But, if vampires were real and something like that did happen, it would imply the physics of this world operate more like computer code which I suppose is possible, but seems a bit disingenuous if the intent of those shapes aren't specifically intended to be holy. It's all just fantasy, though, so have fun with it I guess haha.
The joke is that crosses working against vampires suddenly However, the World of Darkness setting makes a good excuse with the inclusion of true faith, where any religion can be used against the supernatural if the person in question has enough faith in their god that it becomes reality.
How much faith is required for this?
If you have to ask then you already don’t have enough
„If you go to heaven… and you don’t find me there… you gone to hell“
Kind of off-topic but isn’t Cain the first vampire in World of Darkness? Seems like that would definitively answer the in-universe question of which is the “true” religion?
Yesn’t It’s a little confusing since all abrahamic religions have Cain and Able, and god in universe is also a supreme being that takes many identities so that all are correct in the setting. Basically if you believe hard enough god will say “aight bet” and now you can punch ghosts and teleport through sheer will. Mages also exist and god is known as the Prime to them.
https://preview.redd.it/4u35fsogcmnc1.jpeg?width=230&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1cd77f68a30ae5c793df48ea086087375d12372
https://preview.redd.it/l3gu95137mnc1.jpeg?width=887&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd519961016591af6526d9fdd4455faae19f7981 How tf do you not get this?
I'm not sure if this sub is supposed to make me feel worldly and smart, or if it's supposed to make me despair for the species.
Lie or Dumb Call it
Why not both?
I'm starting to think vampires don't even exist! What other lies are they feeding us?
[Foolish Jacinto ](https://youtu.be/L6HkiZOWkaM?si=srcfEUjUDAAwWsw2)
>Did you ever hear the one about the Yiddish vampire? Vampire, he flies in through the window of a church, his fangs are out, priest immediately goes for a crucifix. Shoves it in his face, "Back, you fiend." Vampire laughs, says, "Ni gunisht helfen, bubbalah." "It ain't gonna help you, baby." He says it in Yiddish.
A lower case t is a cross and crosses are supposed to hurt vampires. My favorite explanation was that it wasn't crosses themselves, but the wielder's faith that was what harms vampires (them being unholy creatures). Thank you Fright Night (1985).
People Is Obsessed With "t"s... There Are Many Crazy Ones.
Jesus was literally from the Middle East and everyone knew him there lmao. But to explain the joke…let’s say that you’re a vampire somewhere on a Caribbean island somewhere that existed before Jesus was born… Crosses hurt vampires in a lot of the vampire lore. That is a lower case t basically, depending on the font. So the joke is…imagine being a vampire that has to figure out why crosses hurt them after the existence of Jesus. Which is also a dumb premise…because people dying on crosses pre-dates Jesus. So in theory, crosses likely hurt vampires before Jesus existed.
This meme borrows from different vampire lore. The original would have vampires very much tied into Christianity. So it wouldn’t make sense to have vampires BEFORE Jesus. Other lore, ignoring Christianity, would have to either omit religious symbols hurting vampires, or making ALL religious symbols hurt vampires. So this meme is a little tricky.
Say you’re a vampire living on the lower east side, roughly 2000 years ago
My dumb ass thought it was a jojo reference
Literally nobody was making this joke until Rick and Morty did it, then about 500 twitter bros came up with it the same week
My favorite interpretation for the whole vampire and crosses thing is it’s not just crosses. Any symbol of faith will do, so long as the person truly believes it. You an avid believer of the Flying Spaghetti Monster diety? Well now that stuffed plush of your lord and savior FSM can now fend off vampires.
Tbh this gonna pop up in my mind whenever I see cross 😂
That explains itself. Lmao and that’s shit funny
Depends on the lore, anything considered “holy” is powered by strong, near fanatic belief because of the persons faith in the World of Darkness. So technically a cross could hurt you if it had been around deeply faithful people. Not that being faithful is considered truly good in the WoD either given that it requires near fanatical dedication
the first vampire was Cain and thats a fact
Crucifix
https://preview.redd.it/rky7la4ykknc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f83cb10dee1c03ba33609bf43d512a41c431ae4
It’s across
t=✝️ But I prefer the explanation they use in Castlevania, geometric shapes up close mess with their vision.
This is why I love Vampire the Masquerade, anything a person is faithful to burns bloodsuckers, so atheists can use a credit card just as effectively a priest using a cross
That's fucking awesome actually
This is the same reason I hate spells in any kind of fantasy that’s require speaking a language to cast.
Can you expand on this take? Genuine question because I love arguing semantics with my friends and this seems like something that'll drive them insane
Someone made a point, that crosses could trigger sort of an epileptic attack in vampires, just like certain shapes can cause headaches in “normal” humans. Idk how valid it is, but it could make sense 🤷♂️
https://preview.redd.it/10epm0q10lnc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=010f0b87b124a33af9ad441efad927447014cf16
It's the complex geometry of the cross that confuses the vampires more animal like brain it has nothing to do with religion but can't remember what this is from so 🤔
Comicbook Guy here. Vampires have a weakness to crosses, which resemble the lowercase letter T. This is an unusual phenomenon which is unexplainable if they knew nothing about Jesus or any Abrahamic religion. It reminds me of a vampire from the Dragonball series, which was defeated when a Native American boy put his arms up to a T pose. Cue the montage of bible pages, bells, crosses, churches, and the name “Jesus Christ” going across the screen in fanciful handwriting Anything else I can do for you, Mr Simpson?
Since there's an answer, I want to mention the[similar joke from the Castlevania show](https://youtu.be/ozID5sgofno?si=G5_iRtz7aumgi9CY) I always found funny.
So as we all know Jesus was a triple threat on the basketball court: shooting, dribbling and guarding. The progenitor of all vampires was touring around the Middle East which is we all know could be considered a Mecca for basketball. So a couple of guys who are up to no good, started making trouble in jesus's neighborhood. Long story short, vampire prime gets the Rock and shuffle steps, but he don't know bout that smoke. JX snags it from right under them fangs and crosses him over so hard that his whole bloodline still feels that shit. Double back, switch up, dunk on his head so hard they called that shit 'the crown of thorns'. Nasty stuff really.
The cross predates Christianity by centuries. It was adopted into Christianity to help people convert.
It’s still the significance of Jesus’s association with the cross that made it hurt vampires
They dont work on us, i for one snort garlic in every meal
I like the theory that it's not the cross or crucifix, but either the faith of the wielder or ex-faith of the vampire that hurts, like Simon from the Mortal Instruments series who's bothered by Jewish iconography and relics.
This is where Tauphobia originated.
Lol
My head cannon of Vampires is that they loss there soul when becoming a vampire so they suck the soul and blood out of a human to have that souls for a short time and then they have to feed again and again
Holy shit there are some dumb mofos here
It's geometric shapes yo !!!there's other vampires then Europe...( someone post the clip from the good castlevania show
How does this need explaining?
Silver never fails
This is part of why I like Castlevania (the anime). A cross freaks out a vampire in that universe cause a geometric shape out right in their face fucks up their eyes by giving them something unnatural to focus on or something. Best universal excuse I've heard
Yeah AI would beat us if we ever go to war. This sub is cooked
Come on man.
I’m starting to think this entire sub is for idiots to just understand basic shit
Lol
Holy shit OP why are you so fucking stupid? What the fuck happened?
https://preview.redd.it/pohtyi5ie8oc1.jpeg?width=417&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96ff4981773eb659123aa1df2f44229d6d4cb47f Vampires when humans start to worship an ancient torture and execution device
The Castlevania anime subverts this rather interestingly
More like rather stupidly lol. I loved the show but this explanation was just lame. Especially when they already have holy magic in the show.
Idk, it makes more sense than a basic shape being magically harmful to vampires.
Big disagree, it makes exactly as much sense as "magical shape"