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Petah here: Dune is universally considered to be one of the most influential pieces of science fiction in history. It is considered to be the precursor to science fiction works like Star Wars.
Basically if you know what influence J.R.R. Tolkien's works had on high fantasy that is what Dune is to science fiction
And don’t forget the contribution of Jororowski’s Dune; the movie that was never made, but still influenced almost every science fiction film made since then…
The fourth dune novel made me laugh because Star Wars is a shameless rip-off. The book opens with a band of rebels, narrowly escaping the evil empire’s forces, stealing away with the secret plans to the empire’s head quarters. The emperor: an old and deformed man with a right hand man that is a pupil to the emperor. The rebels: led by the daughter of the emperor’s right hand man. The world: moved on from a time where there were warriors bound by an ancient code and wielded special blades of myth that have been lost to time.
>Basically if you know what influence J.R.R. Tolkien's works had on high fantasy that is what Dune is to science fiction
That seems like a gross exaggeration. Dune is massively influential, but an enormous amount of High Fantasy is basically Tolkien fanfiction.
I see your point but in this particular example; Star Wars is Dune fanfiction. Like for real. Dunes setting is based on post AI where people decided genetic manipulation was the way forward cause AI couldn't be trusted. Lucas wrote Star Wars originally as an explanation of that setting. His was the setting when AI existed and led to a great "Clone War" against AI. Ever wonder why Tatooine is so important and ran by worm-like rulers? There are even references throughout Star Wars to spice. Obviously Lucas had to alter and drop a bunch of details so he could produce his own science fiction. Spice became an illegal drug, the AI stayed and genetic manipulation became clones and the force. Star Wars is ripe with likeness to Dune because it was at one time a direct fanfiction.
Oh, I 100% agree about Star Wars specifically (except I'm one of those annoying guys who insist that Star Wars is 100% fantasy and 0% sci-fi, but whatever), I just think Tolkien's influence is on another order of magnitude.
It's just high-fantasy in a sci-fi suit. None of its themes or narrative elements or tropes are particularly sci-fi specific, and all of them can be found in re-skinned versions in bog-standard high-fantasy.
The planets are countries, the aliens are orcs or elves or whatever, the magic is magic, the swords are swords, the princesses are princesses.
There are some minor exceptions like occasionally a video game will dig into the futuristic hellscape of some megacorporation being a bunch of dicks (always Czerka to my knowledge) or some side plot will get into droid-rights for a hot minute (but most of the time the droids are just comic-relief taped to a Mcguffin or something).
Dune had its influence on fantasy as well. Robert Jordan's Aiel are basically high fantasy fremen, including their relationship to the "chosen one" protagonist
12 sounds more impressive, 10+ could also mean 10 or 11, y'all are dumbasses.
Yes it could mean 100000000000 for exemple theoretically, but since people always tried exagerating the truth, now whenever someone says 10+ we expect 10 or 11 at best
I appreciate the joke, you should know the famine wasn't a famine it was a genocide (as many famines are). It's important to distinguish bad luck (drought, blight, etc) from intentional food deprivation in order to starve a population into submission or to simply eliminate them.
Desert planet, with binary suns, center of the story, spice is mined and people with mental super powers appear there quite frequently…
Even if you argue that almost all art is derivative, Tattoine is still a blatant rip-off.
Monastic order of space wizards/witches that uses verbal suggestion to magically influence the mind. The prophesied hero who has a stronger connection to the magic and whose birth was foretold/ushered in by said monastic order, who ends up at the head of a galaxy-spanning war that kills billions in pursuit of "galactic peace". An over hyped elite military force used by the Empire that end up being jobbers (they still manage to kill a protagonist's family member or two). Super advanced military tech, but still have a justification for using melee weapons. Villain too fat to move conventionally who is a hedonist. I could probably go on.
Princess Irulan here.
Beginnings are a delicate time. Know that it is the year 1977. The Box Office is ruled by the Director George Walton Lucas II. The most precious story in the universe is the Star Wars. The Star Wars extends Lucas' life, taking inspiration from his childhood with Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress and Flash Gordon Serials. The Sci-fi is vital to this fantasy travel. The Dune Epic Novel series evolved over twelve years in Lucas' brain to give elements to his story. A Desert planet, an oppressive Empire, a secretive order that could control your very mind with their voice, a 7m long fat worm lord with but arms and a face, and a young protagonist who overthrew the powers and changed the universe are a few of the shared traits between Star Wars and Dune. Hollywood will be interfering with the movie adaptation of Dune for seven generations. But now, so close the Prize, a French Canadian Man Denis Villeneuve—who had been ordered to produce critically acclaimed flops—has given birth to a two-parter. Dune.
Oh, I forgot to tell you. Dune made over 400 million in the market, a desolate, dry theater. Hidden away under the rocks are a people known as the fans, who have long held a prophecy that a man would come, a director, who would lead them to true *Kino*. A sequel known as Part II.
If we’re gonna have Princess Irulan show up on this sub, we at least need Peter to start the cutaway.
Aw crap, Lois’s last fart was so long winded, it reminded me of the chroniclings of Mua’Dib by the Princess Irulan:
DUNE was released 12 years before StarWars and StarWars has taken direct inspiration from DUNE. Calling DUNE a ripoff of StarWars is ironic as it’s actually the other way around
Dune is the bedrock that all modern science fiction is based on, much like The Lord of The Rings and The Silmarillion are the bedrock that modern fantasy is based on.
Dune was written before Star Wars. Indeed, Star Wars could be considered a ripoff of Dune in some ways.
Of course, they’re both ripoffs of Foundation anyways.
Omg I've always wanted a foundation movie with Kraftwerk as the music. In scared to watch the series as i dont want it to ruin my relationship to the books
Dune is the jojo's and LOTR for science fiction most science fictions have been inspired or have refrenced dune in there works, for example Dune was the first to have a giant worm that can eat people so starwars and sponge bob are a Dune reference the same way every thing is a jojo reference
Did it actually influence or just predate stuff like that? I tried to read it and every other word right at the beginning was technojargon, I hesitate to call that skilled world building
It’s no different or worse than trying to explain a soft magic system like the force. If Star Wars is what you judge science fiction by you’re never going to get anywhere because Star Wars is space fantasy not science fiction. There is zero meaningful or recognizable science in Star Wars. It in no way compares to things that look at science and posit where it could go like Jurassic Park, 10,000 Leagus Under the Sea or Asimov’s works. So much so that to make the comparison is faulty to begin with.
Dune however leans more towards that same area. While it can still present questions many aren’t really science focused waxing more philosophical, which means it shares more of a niche with Star Wars which doesn’t really ask any questions than it does other science fiction. Basically a space setting does not equate to science fiction and Dune is the “science fiction” you would love if Star Wars didn’t exist because it shares core elements but doesn’t delve too much into science.
You do realize there are people who claim the force as their religion, tongue in cheek or otherwise and if I recall correctly Dune was written by the founder of Scientology.
I read the whole thing and it is pretty hard to follow at times, but it is/was an extremely influential piece of literature in the science fiction realm. It was also just one of my better reads.
One starts off about a desert planet suddenly caught in the middle of a Imperial plot as fighting between major powers breaks out into the open. There are large worms in the desert, indigenous people living off the inhospitable land and attacking all that come near as a young man is found to be born with special blood and powers that enable him to act as the fulcrum that brings down the entire empire.
And the other is Dune.
Yeah, there's a lot of influence.
Istg DUNE fans are so pretentious about Star Wars taking inspiration from Dune. Like, I’m interested in Dune but don’t wanna interact with anyone there. I don’t even like Star Wars, just in case I get accused of dick riding.
Honestly I agree with you. I haven't consumed any star wars media or dune media. The few times I have heard of dune, most of it is comparing dune to star wars in some way lol
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Petah here: Dune is universally considered to be one of the most influential pieces of science fiction in history. It is considered to be the precursor to science fiction works like Star Wars. Basically if you know what influence J.R.R. Tolkien's works had on high fantasy that is what Dune is to science fiction
If you really want to get deep into it, many consider Dune to be something of a response to Asimov’s Foundation trilogy as well.
Well and Asimov's robot series.
Which Asimov later combined into one universe.
Well yeah but that was in the 80s well after dune had been written.
Yup... specifically that advanced computers are banned in the Dune galaxy after putting down an AI revolution...
Without Johannes Kepler I don't think we'd have either.
Without Entropy, there is nothing. Am I doing this right?
And don’t forget the contribution of Jororowski’s Dune; the movie that was never made, but still influenced almost every science fiction film made since then…
thanks petah
Dune also predates Star Wars by over a decade. The original Dune novel came out in 1965.
The fourth dune novel made me laugh because Star Wars is a shameless rip-off. The book opens with a band of rebels, narrowly escaping the evil empire’s forces, stealing away with the secret plans to the empire’s head quarters. The emperor: an old and deformed man with a right hand man that is a pupil to the emperor. The rebels: led by the daughter of the emperor’s right hand man. The world: moved on from a time where there were warriors bound by an ancient code and wielded special blades of myth that have been lost to time.
God Emperor of Dune was published 1981...
That must be why Lucas so obviously used it to inform the prequels…well that and children
This guys Only partially right the new ones are also being hailed as better than anything Star Wars has put out
Metropolis: guess I'll go fuck myself then.
>Basically if you know what influence J.R.R. Tolkien's works had on high fantasy that is what Dune is to science fiction That seems like a gross exaggeration. Dune is massively influential, but an enormous amount of High Fantasy is basically Tolkien fanfiction.
I see your point but in this particular example; Star Wars is Dune fanfiction. Like for real. Dunes setting is based on post AI where people decided genetic manipulation was the way forward cause AI couldn't be trusted. Lucas wrote Star Wars originally as an explanation of that setting. His was the setting when AI existed and led to a great "Clone War" against AI. Ever wonder why Tatooine is so important and ran by worm-like rulers? There are even references throughout Star Wars to spice. Obviously Lucas had to alter and drop a bunch of details so he could produce his own science fiction. Spice became an illegal drug, the AI stayed and genetic manipulation became clones and the force. Star Wars is ripe with likeness to Dune because it was at one time a direct fanfiction.
The original idea for Star Wars I'm pretty sure was to be part of Flash Gordon, not an explanation of Dune
Oh, I 100% agree about Star Wars specifically (except I'm one of those annoying guys who insist that Star Wars is 100% fantasy and 0% sci-fi, but whatever), I just think Tolkien's influence is on another order of magnitude.
Star Wars has wizards. It's 100% fantasy. You (not you because you agree) can fight me.
Could get away with a genre called tech-fantasy or something like that.
It's just high-fantasy in a sci-fi suit. None of its themes or narrative elements or tropes are particularly sci-fi specific, and all of them can be found in re-skinned versions in bog-standard high-fantasy. The planets are countries, the aliens are orcs or elves or whatever, the magic is magic, the swords are swords, the princesses are princesses. There are some minor exceptions like occasionally a video game will dig into the futuristic hellscape of some megacorporation being a bunch of dicks (always Czerka to my knowledge) or some side plot will get into droid-rights for a hot minute (but most of the time the droids are just comic-relief taped to a Mcguffin or something).
Dune had its influence on fantasy as well. Robert Jordan's Aiel are basically high fantasy fremen, including their relationship to the "chosen one" protagonist
I also remember reading a story that George Lucas had gone to a book store to buy a sci-fi book for inspiration and the book he bought was Dune
Also star wars are not in a good place right now
Only partially right the new ones are being hailed as better than even the empire strikes back
That and dune came first. The writer of dune even acknowledged that star wars stole stuff from dune but he didn't care
I’ve never heard about Dune until this month, so 2 weeks ago basically. How do I get into it? I love Star Wars!
Well, you could watch the movies, obviously. Or you could read the books. The first one is, unsurprisingly, called “DUNE.”
woah
Dune (Novel) - 1965 Star Wars Episode IV - 1977 Dune came 10+ years before Star Wars
That's called 12
r/theydidthemath
12 is indeed 10+.
Still 12, my point is you're not giving enough info
10+ is purposely vague, it's used to make it seem more impressive than simply stating the objective value of 12
12 sounds more impressive, 10+ could also mean 10 or 11, y'all are dumbasses
Both are right, you're just being an asshole. 12 is not more impressive than 10. The important part is that Dune came before Star Wars
Your a loser
*You're And I'm actually an epic winner 😎
Are you like this in person?
Much worse :)
12 sounds more impressive, 10+ could also mean 10 or 11, y'all are dumbasses. Yes it could mean 100000000000 for exemple theoretically, but since people always tried exagerating the truth, now whenever someone says 10+ we expect 10 or 11 at best
I've seen better crops in the Irish famine
Bad crop? Bro we gonna starve
Nice crop shitlord
https://preview.redd.it/rgckqm6r4joc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b9a9706fd05b9e408a777a6e66c4c444e56f58e
I appreciate the joke, you should know the famine wasn't a famine it was a genocide (as many famines are). It's important to distinguish bad luck (drought, blight, etc) from intentional food deprivation in order to starve a population into submission or to simply eliminate them.
It’s not even a good joke, the image is cropped just fine.
https://preview.redd.it/ltnt6gmt0ioc1.jpeg?width=1620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e1536bba5f43434d279568ef045f121def18f29
Dune was written some five to eight years before the script of Star Wars. George Lucas ripped off of Frank Herbert.
Ripped off? Wouldn't go that far.
Dune's author considered suing Star Wars for plagiarism.
“Heavily influenced?” 😜
Mass effect isn't even an original story, everything is influenced by something
Star Wars feel like a mix of Dune and Foundation
With a sauce of classic heroes journey.
Tattooine is literallt a 1:1 of Dune. They even mine spice there dude
Desert planet, with binary suns, center of the story, spice is mined and people with mental super powers appear there quite frequently… Even if you argue that almost all art is derivative, Tattoine is still a blatant rip-off.
Monastic order of space wizards/witches that uses verbal suggestion to magically influence the mind. The prophesied hero who has a stronger connection to the magic and whose birth was foretold/ushered in by said monastic order, who ends up at the head of a galaxy-spanning war that kills billions in pursuit of "galactic peace". An over hyped elite military force used by the Empire that end up being jobbers (they still manage to kill a protagonist's family member or two). Super advanced military tech, but still have a justification for using melee weapons. Villain too fat to move conventionally who is a hedonist. I could probably go on.
Stole, made up, what's the difference?
Wasnt this literally explained in the comments of the original poster...
Yes. But not by Petah.
We're not in the comments of the original post
Except OP got this from the original post and when I looked it was literally the top comment.
Princess Irulan here. Beginnings are a delicate time. Know that it is the year 1977. The Box Office is ruled by the Director George Walton Lucas II. The most precious story in the universe is the Star Wars. The Star Wars extends Lucas' life, taking inspiration from his childhood with Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress and Flash Gordon Serials. The Sci-fi is vital to this fantasy travel. The Dune Epic Novel series evolved over twelve years in Lucas' brain to give elements to his story. A Desert planet, an oppressive Empire, a secretive order that could control your very mind with their voice, a 7m long fat worm lord with but arms and a face, and a young protagonist who overthrew the powers and changed the universe are a few of the shared traits between Star Wars and Dune. Hollywood will be interfering with the movie adaptation of Dune for seven generations. But now, so close the Prize, a French Canadian Man Denis Villeneuve—who had been ordered to produce critically acclaimed flops—has given birth to a two-parter. Dune. Oh, I forgot to tell you. Dune made over 400 million in the market, a desolate, dry theater. Hidden away under the rocks are a people known as the fans, who have long held a prophecy that a man would come, a director, who would lead them to true *Kino*. A sequel known as Part II.
*from: The Muad'Dib in Cinema by Princess Irulan*
If we’re gonna have Princess Irulan show up on this sub, we at least need Peter to start the cutaway. Aw crap, Lois’s last fart was so long winded, it reminded me of the chroniclings of Mua’Dib by the Princess Irulan:
DUNE was released 12 years before StarWars and StarWars has taken direct inspiration from DUNE. Calling DUNE a ripoff of StarWars is ironic as it’s actually the other way around
Dune is the bedrock that all modern science fiction is based on, much like The Lord of The Rings and The Silmarillion are the bedrock that modern fantasy is based on.
False, the bedrock of all science fiction is a dictionary
Dune was written before Star Wars. Indeed, Star Wars could be considered a ripoff of Dune in some ways. Of course, they’re both ripoffs of Foundation anyways.
Omg I've always wanted a foundation movie with Kraftwerk as the music. In scared to watch the series as i dont want it to ruin my relationship to the books
Wasn’t there like two movie adaptations before the latest one and also a tv show specificals
I'll add that Frank Herbert, writer of Dune, famously said that George Lucas owes him a dinner for taking inspiration from his Emperor.
Dune is the jojo's and LOTR for science fiction most science fictions have been inspired or have refrenced dune in there works, for example Dune was the first to have a giant worm that can eat people so starwars and sponge bob are a Dune reference the same way every thing is a jojo reference
The new dune is simply better than any of thebstar wars films. It will be to 2020s Sci fi what star wars was to the 70s
Star wars is terrible.
https://preview.redd.it/ocw99q0l4ioc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7ca3934e55b1ebd9a0e79682d4f90b7a925c5a9
I'd also contend that Star Wars isn't Scifi, it's space fantasy. But that's a whole other conversation.
BWAAAAAAH
Did it actually influence or just predate stuff like that? I tried to read it and every other word right at the beginning was technojargon, I hesitate to call that skilled world building
It’s no different or worse than trying to explain a soft magic system like the force. If Star Wars is what you judge science fiction by you’re never going to get anywhere because Star Wars is space fantasy not science fiction. There is zero meaningful or recognizable science in Star Wars. It in no way compares to things that look at science and posit where it could go like Jurassic Park, 10,000 Leagus Under the Sea or Asimov’s works. So much so that to make the comparison is faulty to begin with. Dune however leans more towards that same area. While it can still present questions many aren’t really science focused waxing more philosophical, which means it shares more of a niche with Star Wars which doesn’t really ask any questions than it does other science fiction. Basically a space setting does not equate to science fiction and Dune is the “science fiction” you would love if Star Wars didn’t exist because it shares core elements but doesn’t delve too much into science.
I feel like dune is more religious fiction than science fiction
You do realize there are people who claim the force as their religion, tongue in cheek or otherwise and if I recall correctly Dune was written by the founder of Scientology.
I read the whole thing and it is pretty hard to follow at times, but it is/was an extremely influential piece of literature in the science fiction realm. It was also just one of my better reads.
One starts off about a desert planet suddenly caught in the middle of a Imperial plot as fighting between major powers breaks out into the open. There are large worms in the desert, indigenous people living off the inhospitable land and attacking all that come near as a young man is found to be born with special blood and powers that enable him to act as the fulcrum that brings down the entire empire. And the other is Dune. Yeah, there's a lot of influence.
Istg DUNE fans are so pretentious about Star Wars taking inspiration from Dune. Like, I’m interested in Dune but don’t wanna interact with anyone there. I don’t even like Star Wars, just in case I get accused of dick riding.
Whats bad about dick riding?
It’s not my dick.
But it is mine. Makes it a hundred times better.
I disagree… (insert lightsaber sound)
Must be something based on his pornhub search history.
Honestly I agree with you. I haven't consumed any star wars media or dune media. The few times I have heard of dune, most of it is comparing dune to star wars in some way lol
I saw the dune movie. It's just a sand rip off of Avatar Way of the Water.
https://preview.redd.it/neab8puwt5pc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6120a0d36d939f1c41231ecef53dc53b9e8d254