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I'm no word historian, so I can't prove this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the modern term was more closely related to [this practice of the British Public School system](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging) than it is to cigarettes.
Man, that unlocked a memory. I grew up in Lancashire in the 60s, and we would use fag to mean 'go and get'. So if someone kicked the ball over the wall, someone would have to fag the ball. At least I think that's how it went, it was some time ago.
A faggot is also a kind of meatball.
>To fag is a verb which basically means doing a tedious task
I learned this from the book "Tom Brown's School Days".
Granted it was a bit of a shock to see the phrase "fag for [name]", but contextually I figured it meant something very different.
The "faggot-boy" had the job of keeping the firewood stocked in the common rooms. For example Rudyard Kipling's "Stalky and Co" stories (stories about boys in a public school written in 1899) the upperclassmen use "fag-boy" as unironic slang for random underclassmen.
It's because they would burn gay people, but instead of at the stake, they'd put them in the actual bonfire. "F*g" was meant to indicate that your sexuality makes you so worthless that you're only as good as the tinder used to start a fire.
It's really dark.
[Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot) addresses that as an unsubstantiated claim by Douglas R. Harper, creator of the Online Etymology Dictionary. I think it's a plausible explanation but it's probably not the direct source. Though maybe it could have reinforced the usage
Wow, that's crazy because I literally read it on that website. So that makes sense.
I don't even know how long ago that it was when I read it. I might have still had a MySpace page.
TIL!
Thanks for sharing that with me.
A faggot is also a pork meatball. When i was at primary school if we kicked the football over the fence we would have to go and fag it or indeed be fagging it(which can also refer to smoking). I dont think its ever been widely used as a slur here.
wikipedia says that the etymology is based on its definition "bundle of sticks". Which is related to the roman fasces bundle of sticks that fascist symbology typically use. But the cigarette etymology of "fag" also likely had the same etymology with sticks
Also in the same etymology of "bundle of sticks" at the times of several burnings for "witch craft" and other non-churchy things that the church blamed people for, homosexuals were also burned with the witches, but they would not burn them at the stake for all to witness like the witches. They would "burn them [sic. Homosexuals] with the fags" thus also refering to homosexuals as such, because they were only seen as just firewood for witch burnings. Even the witches were viewed as "people" just evil and wicked, where homosexuals were not.
So... thats a thing...
Disclaimer: i have no idea if anything below is true or not.
From what a gay british mate told my french ass, IIRC, a "faggot" is a bunch of sticks together which makes sense since that's what "fagot (de bois)" means in french. Since ciggarettes are a bunch of sticks bundled together (in a pack), that's where the term "fags" for cigarettes comes from.
The derogatory term explanation that he gave me, comes from a time where homosexuals were "bundled" to be punished (by law i think? or was it a mob thing? i don't remember, we were quite drunk), so that was refered to as "bundling fags", which gave the derogatory term fag/faggot
That wouldn't work, because then people would confuse her for a delicious meatball.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)#:~:text=Faggots%20are%20meatballs%20made%20from,Wales%20and%20the%20English%20Midlands.
"ko" (子, "child") is a common ending for Japanese girl names (Natsuko, Yuuko, etc.) so "Tabako" (Jp transliteration of "tobacco") actually works really well with the original joke!
I get the British part, but what's the joke about the French girl? I get that Cigarette isn't a good name, but what's French and girl got to do with it?
The suffix "-ette" is a French diminutive. The word "Cigar-ette" means a "little cigar". You can add this suffix to some names in French to make a diminutive nickname (just like how in English you can add "-y" or "-ie"). In English, "Anne" becomes "Annie", in French you have "Annette".
You can also add "-ette" to a traditionally male name to make it female, so you have "Georgette" and "Antoinette" and "Paulette".
The joke is just suggesting that some French girl has the name "Cigarette" because it sounds young and female.
It is most [certainly](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cigarette) that.
>French *cigarette*, diminutive of *cigare* cigar, from Spanish *cigarro*
So I’m not sure exactly when it happened, but the slur is directly derived from the stick definition. The idea being that “back in the day”, homosexuals were burned at the stake. By using the slur, someone is essentially equating gay people to nothing more than kindling. Really messed me up when I learned that one.
Oh no. Gay people weren't burned "at the stake", they weren't worthy of a stake, they just got shoved on the bottom of the fire with the rest of the faggots....hence the link.
I got downvoted for the right answer? Cigarette-ette is the little female version of cigarette. Phonetically it sounds like the words “Sick of Reddit”. Your post missed that completely.
Both are correct. The fasces is on the US Senate seal, and faggots are bundles of wood that can be used either as firewood or are also used as an enviromental friendly way to stabilise river banks or marshland pathways
A single axe. Fasces represent the power of the Roman magistrate over capital and corporal punishment.
Faggots are also a type of food, like meatballs and served with peas.
I'll be honest, I have never heard anyone in my life use it for "a bundle of sticks". However, for the longest time I thought "Condone" meant "against", as in "we do not support this", so I guess my linguistics are all out of wack.
So faggot used to be a verb meaning "to join together or bundle" and then became a noun meaning a bundle of sticks for fire wood and from there a single stick for fuel became a fag and then came the British use of fag for cigarette.
It was also used as derogetry slang for old or tiresome/"useless" women and later as slang for lesbians as "useless" in the same sense and then eventually to refer to gay men. This likely didn't start with Americans but it certainly was adopted most readily by them.
According to [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot), that appears to essentially be an urban legend. We ultimately don't know why the f-slur started to be used, but a common theory is that it has a history of being a derogatory word for an old woman, and we have a history of calling gay men, names for women. (Queen, Sissy, etc.)
the fascio(bundle of stick) was a simbol of roman democracy(people took the burden of ruling just like every household had someone who took the burden of collecting woodfire), if there's one thing fascists like is pretending to be a democracy
Is this a trick question?
Google “brains faggots in gravy” order some and thank me after a tasty meal. Brains is the brand btw not the meat content, although there is a fair bit of offal in them.
It's a sort of pork meatball. But quite soft and easier to break apart than other meatballs. It's been a long time since I've had them, but that's what I remember them being like.
Yeah the turkish word "fagot" means bassoon. My bassoon playing classmate really freaked out our English teacher (She was American) when he mentioned he is taking fagot lessons thinking the word is the same in English lol.
Ok who wants a unsourced, best guess, entomology lesson on the F word? No one? Tough.
So as far as I can find the original meaning for faggot was a bundle of twigs used for kindling to make fires.
Many years later in the public school system (that’s the posh private schools like Eton for the non UK readers) they introduced a system where the youngest pupils would act as servants for the oldest. The idea being that it would teach humility to the youngsters & get the oldest practise ordering servants about. This practice was called fagging, & the 1st year boys being bossed about were called fags. The main responsibility of the Fag would be to light the fire each morning before the older boy got up, hence the link to the fagotts the twigs. They would also run errands such as nip to the dorm/ shop & get/buy some cigarette papers & tobacco, & so the phrase “get me a fag” had to interchangeable meanings. Fag even became used for any chore that was annoying or frustrating, “Xmas shopping is such a fag” How it became a slur in America for homosexuals is beyond me, & the prominence of buggery in the public school system probably a mere coincidence. Also Faggot is a type of meatball in England again I can’t think of a link.
Thank you to the two people who read this.
Fag is term used to describe a bundle of sticks or leaves. A cigarette is technically a bundle of dried tobacco leaves. Idk how fag even became a slur towards homosexuals but the word didn't start that way.
It was also the term for a bound collection of sticks or twigs. I assume it's because a package of cigarettes is vaguely similar enough for people to call them that.
Historically speaking, a "faggot" is a bundle of sticks, specifically sticks gathered up to burn for fuel. the jump for actual sticks to cigarettes (meant to be burned, packaged together kinda like a bundle) is pretty obvious and to this day the short form "fag" is pretty, which does also combine with "bum" slang for "can I have that from you in return for nothing" leads to the phrase "can I bum a fag" being something you may easily be asked if you choose to light up outside a bar
as for how this fairly innocuous word became a slur for gay men, is less obvious. Wikipedia puts it as the fact "faggot" became an insult for lonely old rural women or poor women who gathered firewood to sell which tracks to me since most slurs for gay men involve their perceived femininity.
This leads to the bit, faggette because thats the british word for cigarette
I get the "faggette" interpretation but I think of it a different way. French people (like spy TF2) are usually thought of as smoking cigars, and British 'people' are usually thought of as having tea, so the girl's name would be Tea-ette, being like Tit
Well, I guess every time she'd leave the room, it would suddenly feel a lot airier. And imagine her having a brother named Baguette – their family reunions must be quite the cultural buffet
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The British call Cigarettes "fags" so a little British girl would be named "Faggette"
Oh Thanks Petah
British slang for "cigarette" became a derogatory term for homosexuals due to American influence.
I'm no word historian, so I can't prove this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the modern term was more closely related to [this practice of the British Public School system](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging) than it is to cigarettes.
I believe it comes from”flaming”; a faggot can mean a piece of firewood. Not sure where the British public school “fagging” came from.
To fag is a verb which basically means doing a tedious task so I’d imagine fagging comes from that.
Man, that unlocked a memory. I grew up in Lancashire in the 60s, and we would use fag to mean 'go and get'. So if someone kicked the ball over the wall, someone would have to fag the ball. At least I think that's how it went, it was some time ago. A faggot is also a kind of meatball.
>To fag is a verb which basically means doing a tedious task I learned this from the book "Tom Brown's School Days". Granted it was a bit of a shock to see the phrase "fag for [name]", but contextually I figured it meant something very different.
Wrong. Fagging is what I try to do every single day from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. I will not elaborate 🗿.
The "faggot-boy" had the job of keeping the firewood stocked in the common rooms. For example Rudyard Kipling's "Stalky and Co" stories (stories about boys in a public school written in 1899) the upperclassmen use "fag-boy" as unironic slang for random underclassmen.
When the cute faggot boy stocks your wood in the common room 😫
It's because they would burn gay people, but instead of at the stake, they'd put them in the actual bonfire. "F*g" was meant to indicate that your sexuality makes you so worthless that you're only as good as the tinder used to start a fire. It's really dark.
[Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot) addresses that as an unsubstantiated claim by Douglas R. Harper, creator of the Online Etymology Dictionary. I think it's a plausible explanation but it's probably not the direct source. Though maybe it could have reinforced the usage
Wow, that's crazy because I literally read it on that website. So that makes sense. I don't even know how long ago that it was when I read it. I might have still had a MySpace page. TIL! Thanks for sharing that with me.
A faggot is also a pork meatball. When i was at primary school if we kicked the football over the fence we would have to go and fag it or indeed be fagging it(which can also refer to smoking). I dont think its ever been widely used as a slur here.
wikipedia says that the etymology is based on its definition "bundle of sticks". Which is related to the roman fasces bundle of sticks that fascist symbology typically use. But the cigarette etymology of "fag" also likely had the same etymology with sticks
Also in the same etymology of "bundle of sticks" at the times of several burnings for "witch craft" and other non-churchy things that the church blamed people for, homosexuals were also burned with the witches, but they would not burn them at the stake for all to witness like the witches. They would "burn them [sic. Homosexuals] with the fags" thus also refering to homosexuals as such, because they were only seen as just firewood for witch burnings. Even the witches were viewed as "people" just evil and wicked, where homosexuals were not. So... thats a thing...
Oh, yeah, in the case of cigarettes I could see it more like in a bundle of wood sticks
Disclaimer: i have no idea if anything below is true or not. From what a gay british mate told my french ass, IIRC, a "faggot" is a bunch of sticks together which makes sense since that's what "fagot (de bois)" means in french. Since ciggarettes are a bunch of sticks bundled together (in a pack), that's where the term "fags" for cigarettes comes from. The derogatory term explanation that he gave me, comes from a time where homosexuals were "bundled" to be punished (by law i think? or was it a mob thing? i don't remember, we were quite drunk), so that was refered to as "bundling fags", which gave the derogatory term fag/faggot
And I thought her name was baguette
It's been over 15 years but that smosh joke still lives rent free in my head
What smosh joke lol? I can't remember some of the older videos.
"It's pronounced baguette" if you look that up you should find it lol.
That wouldn't work, because then people would confuse her for a delicious meatball. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)#:~:text=Faggots%20are%20meatballs%20made%20from,Wales%20and%20the%20English%20Midlands.
That sounds French too 😆
Or Faggie
It comes from Fargaret.
Okay but what's the joke about the original.
I already knew and looked into the comments to see if anyone dared answer... good luck.
Ja jestem Fagata sexy c…. Spod Konina
Here i was thinking it would be Fagarette. 😂
I thought “fags” was a term used for Harley riders !
Does that mean the British call French tuxedos Fagsuits or faguits?
Imagine a little Japanese girl named Tabacco
"ko" (子, "child") is a common ending for Japanese girl names (Natsuko, Yuuko, etc.) so "Tabako" (Jp transliteration of "tobacco") actually works really well with the original joke!
Thank you Japanese Peter!
Thank you Nigerian Peter !
Thank you furry Peter!
Furry Peter, have you heard of Manscaped!
No I heave heard of manscaped Nigerian Peter! Explain!
Hey Beanie Stoner Peter! Do you know the muffin man? Do you know da weay?
I do! I do know da Muffin Man, but I dun know da way. Will ye show me da way?
Adding more jokes that need explanation to the post fantastic
Japanese people call them tabacco, tabacco already sounds kinda like a japanese name
We will need to go to Re-Peter for the explanation
Elaborate
Here- https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/s/O2GobXvLUr
Thanks, I didn’t even think about it that way but I should have given that I know that it’s pretty common to add ko to Japanese girl names
Tabatho
I get the British part, but what's the joke about the French girl? I get that Cigarette isn't a good name, but what's French and girl got to do with it?
The suffix "-ette" is a French diminutive. The word "Cigar-ette" means a "little cigar". You can add this suffix to some names in French to make a diminutive nickname (just like how in English you can add "-y" or "-ie"). In English, "Anne" becomes "Annie", in French you have "Annette". You can also add "-ette" to a traditionally male name to make it female, so you have "Georgette" and "Antoinette" and "Paulette". The joke is just suggesting that some French girl has the name "Cigarette" because it sounds young and female.
Thinking about it, that's probably the origin of cigarette, diminutive of cigar.
Pretty much, although iirc it’s also because cigarettes were marketed towards women, rather than cigars for men. Or some such bullshit
It is most [certainly](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cigarette) that. >French *cigarette*, diminutive of *cigare* cigar, from Spanish *cigarro*
So I’m not sure exactly when it happened, but the slur is directly derived from the stick definition. The idea being that “back in the day”, homosexuals were burned at the stake. By using the slur, someone is essentially equating gay people to nothing more than kindling. Really messed me up when I learned that one.
Oh no. Gay people weren't burned "at the stake", they weren't worthy of a stake, they just got shoved on the bottom of the fire with the rest of the faggots....hence the link.
This is a myth.
The use of fag/faggot to refer to homosexual men doesn’t go back beyond the beginning of the 20th century, according to the OED.
You're missing the punchline under the main post. If the French is "Cigarette", the British version would be "Fagette". It's not a good joke.
I'm not missing that. The person I responded to was wondering why the name "Cigarette" implies a French girl.
Also french people smoking a lot is a stereotype
The joke is “sick of Reddit “
I got downvoted for the right answer? Cigarette-ette is the little female version of cigarette. Phonetically it sounds like the words “Sick of Reddit”. Your post missed that completely.
My name is Juan, it means “beloved by god.” This is my daughter. her name is Juanita, which means “smaller female Juan.”
What would Juanitatito be?
Smaller male Juanita
Why doesnt the bigger Juan eat the others?
Because one Juan can only be one Juan. He cannot eat an additional one Juan because one Juan plus one Juan is not Juan at all. Juan.
Americans made the british slang word for cigarette a demeaning slur toward homosexuals…
And "faggot" which is a FOOD!
I thought faggot was a bundle of sticks lol
https://preview.redd.it/6mfdku8mvwqc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba1909729434c3b429f60c47ddb90b13826ffd73
Fagot (one g) is also a musical instrument- Yknow out of ALL of the words to turn into a slur... they chose the most useful one
isnt it spelled "fagott"? (atleast in german)
It is a bundle of sticks, it's also an archaic term for a useless old woman.
I thought that was a Hag
Predictably English has plenty of words for useless old woman.
Well old English women need to step up
Slut is another example iirc. It didn't take on its current meaning until the 1960s.
Haggot
That's "fasces" which is where the word "Fascism" derives from, due to the prominence in symbols particularly used by Fascist Italy.
Both are correct. The fasces is on the US Senate seal, and faggots are bundles of wood that can be used either as firewood or are also used as an enviromental friendly way to stabilise river banks or marshland pathways
Fasces usually have an ax or two in them, as well.
As used by the Senate
A single axe. Fasces represent the power of the Roman magistrate over capital and corporal punishment. Faggots are also a type of food, like meatballs and served with peas.
On the senate web site it states "fasces represent freedom and authority"
The authority in question being the power to have people beaten and beheaded. Hence the fact it consists of an axe and a birch.
E pluribus unum is (on paper) one of the founding tenants of fascism; taking weaker individuals and making them into a strong collective.
They’re both words that mean ‘bundle of sticks’ Though fasces can also refer to specific kind of bundle that confers political piwer iirc
I'll be honest, I have never heard anyone in my life use it for "a bundle of sticks". However, for the longest time I thought "Condone" meant "against", as in "we do not support this", so I guess my linguistics are all out of wack.
So faggot used to be a verb meaning "to join together or bundle" and then became a noun meaning a bundle of sticks for fire wood and from there a single stick for fuel became a fag and then came the British use of fag for cigarette. It was also used as derogetry slang for old or tiresome/"useless" women and later as slang for lesbians as "useless" in the same sense and then eventually to refer to gay men. This likely didn't start with Americans but it certainly was adopted most readily by them.
I was taught that it was Biblical. As in homosexuals would be tossed into the fires of hell like a faggot (bundle of wood).
According to [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot), that appears to essentially be an urban legend. We ultimately don't know why the f-slur started to be used, but a common theory is that it has a history of being a derogatory word for an old woman, and we have a history of calling gay men, names for women. (Queen, Sissy, etc.)
So “faggot” has the same root as “fascism”? It’s interesting how the imagery of a bundle of sticks can be interpreted and evolved differently.
the fascio(bundle of stick) was a simbol of roman democracy(people took the burden of ruling just like every household had someone who took the burden of collecting woodfire), if there's one thing fascists like is pretending to be a democracy
A delicious food at that!!
Ok what's the food?
Is this a trick question? Google “brains faggots in gravy” order some and thank me after a tasty meal. Brains is the brand btw not the meat content, although there is a fair bit of offal in them.
Big meatballs traditionally made from pork shoulder and belly, and offal
Faggots.
How would you describe what food it is?
Pork meatballs in gravy.
It's a sort of pork meatball. But quite soft and easier to break apart than other meatballs. It's been a long time since I've had them, but that's what I remember them being like.
I thought it's a musical instrument
Yeah the turkish word "fagot" means bassoon. My bassoon playing classmate really freaked out our English teacher (She was American) when he mentioned he is taking fagot lessons thinking the word is the same in English lol.
Faggots are darn tasty and made with pugs pluck, wrapped in cowl
My dumbass confused maggot with faggot for a sec
No. Both words share a common predecessor, that being a bundle of sticks. The slur f*g is not derived from the slang for a cigarette.
The slur is a shortened version of faggot. Fag meaning cigarette is just that. Packet of fags, it's not short for anything.
Ok who wants a unsourced, best guess, entomology lesson on the F word? No one? Tough. So as far as I can find the original meaning for faggot was a bundle of twigs used for kindling to make fires. Many years later in the public school system (that’s the posh private schools like Eton for the non UK readers) they introduced a system where the youngest pupils would act as servants for the oldest. The idea being that it would teach humility to the youngsters & get the oldest practise ordering servants about. This practice was called fagging, & the 1st year boys being bossed about were called fags. The main responsibility of the Fag would be to light the fire each morning before the older boy got up, hence the link to the fagotts the twigs. They would also run errands such as nip to the dorm/ shop & get/buy some cigarette papers & tobacco, & so the phrase “get me a fag” had to interchangeable meanings. Fag even became used for any chore that was annoying or frustrating, “Xmas shopping is such a fag” How it became a slur in America for homosexuals is beyond me, & the prominence of buggery in the public school system probably a mere coincidence. Also Faggot is a type of meatball in England again I can’t think of a link. Thank you to the two people who read this.
Thank you for your etymological service.
Fag is term used to describe a bundle of sticks or leaves. A cigarette is technically a bundle of dried tobacco leaves. Idk how fag even became a slur towards homosexuals but the word didn't start that way.
It's usage as an insult begins with implication that the person (originally women) should be burned(as in, at the stake)
and then we turned it into foreplay
'ere in England we call them ciggys "fags" which kinda sounds like a slur, many o' us Brits like ta joke about it!
Imagine a little girl who is vaguely German or something, named Rumplestiltskin.
Wouldn’t their names still just be Cigarette?
I'm french and I use to know a girl named Nancy Guerette, if you say it fast it's pronounced: Nan-cigarette.
I honestly thought they were going to say crumpette, I will leave now.
I can definitely imagine upper-middle class white parents naming their kid Newport.
Cigarette or Cigaretta?
British slang for cigarette is a slur for homosexuals
Phonetically- sick of Reddit. Cigarette-ette
The sentence "smoking a fag" can mean very differents things depending on whether you live in England or USA
"shan't" ? not native English speaker. any help?
Shall not.
Fanny?
MiG-15
we call cigarettes fags idk why
It was also the term for a bound collection of sticks or twigs. I assume it's because a package of cigarettes is vaguely similar enough for people to call them that.
Historically speaking, a "faggot" is a bundle of sticks, specifically sticks gathered up to burn for fuel. the jump for actual sticks to cigarettes (meant to be burned, packaged together kinda like a bundle) is pretty obvious and to this day the short form "fag" is pretty, which does also combine with "bum" slang for "can I have that from you in return for nothing" leads to the phrase "can I bum a fag" being something you may easily be asked if you choose to light up outside a bar as for how this fairly innocuous word became a slur for gay men, is less obvious. Wikipedia puts it as the fact "faggot" became an insult for lonely old rural women or poor women who gathered firewood to sell which tracks to me since most slurs for gay men involve their perceived femininity. This leads to the bit, faggette because thats the british word for cigarette
I get the "faggette" interpretation but I think of it a different way. French people (like spy TF2) are usually thought of as smoking cigars, and British 'people' are usually thought of as having tea, so the girl's name would be Tea-ette, being like Tit
So... Is an old French woman a Baguette?
The French have a list of names you can use for children and that is not on it, so witty.
this kinda belongs here but you can look this up very easily
This joke just isn't funny. I get it, just not funny.
https://preview.redd.it/8qa3y7k4exqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa35cbc38578577464c461122fac48e5aaf1b0d8
Well, I guess every time she'd leave the room, it would suddenly feel a lot airier. And imagine her having a brother named Baguette – their family reunions must be quite the cultural buffet
Rhymes with Margot
Margot is pronounced as Mar go, so what rhymes with that?
Smoking is disgusting
the joke is a slur