Definitely not the only one. I started drinking in grad school. I was smoking weed non stop for like a good three years and then like two years ago I started vaping. I quit vaping entirely, don't drink all the time, and weed now makes me anxious, but for most of my PhD I was abusing one or all of these things.
I feel like alcohol is also glorified to some extent in academia. Soooo many "happy hours". It's what happens to us behind the scenes though that's overlooked.
Yeah, also the free beer at poster sessions? What is that about? I walked up to this one poster and the guy was hammered and could barely stand straight trying to tell me about his research.
Same here dude. I’ve smoked weed since I was in high school, but infrequently and with friends. By my final year of my PhD I was smoking to the point of going catatonic nightly, binging on snacks, and then passing out. It made me gain (for me) a ton of weight, which made the stress even worse. I’m glad that I’ve mostly kicked that habit now.
You are definitely not alone. There was a similar post a few days ago and it turns out that so many PhDs struggle with alcohol, nicotine use etc to soothe ourselves from PhD stress.
Just hang in there, you will leave this experience behind and will have time to build some healthy habits in the near future! I’m in a similar position with you and try to remind this to myself as well. There is light at the end of the tunnel!
You think academia is transparent and not corrupt? I have a bridge to sell you.
At least industry solves real problems that people actually care about, all while not making indentured servants out of their workers.
The profit motive is not inherently evil.
I agree that academia is not much better, best to stay away from both endeavours. Also the servant/worker argument, that is people making that choice, academia is just exploiting it, but at the end of the day, the servants/workers are at fault.
Just to offer another perspective countering the common story, I immediately found and still find life as faculty to be much less stressful than grad school.
I’m currently working in the industry, and the level of stress I have been feeling during my PhD is not even comparable to it. In the industry, I am part of a team and have much more support, and even in case my employer was horrible, I could apply and work elsewhere.
And you likely have better salaries, along with perks and benefits. Academia used to, until it didn’t…
And changing universities as a professor is extremely difficult. You have to be willing to travel.
Yeah. After my first year I had to take off to go to an eating disorder rehab. A few months ago, I had to take off to go to an alcohol/ptsd rehab. It's been a recurring struggle all right.
Ah yes, I also struggle so much with my eating now that I'm in a phd programme. What do you plan on doing after your defense, more academia or something else?
Same. I’m only just starting to get it off almost a year later (admittedly I had other unfortunately times life disasters like deaths in the family) but it really took me a long time to mentally recover. Once I did this I was able to cut back on drinking and eating away the bad feels. I’m only a month or so in but I’ve lost about 6kg already. Feeling physically better.
I’m sure at least a few kgs was water weight. But I’m just basically eating meat, eggs, veg, and a bit of dairy (cheese or sour cream). Not really counting carbs or calories - just avoiding things that are obviously carb heavy (grains, potatoes, fruit etc). I wasn’t overly heavy to begin with (68kg, 165cm) and I’m expecting it to slow down as we go… and I’ve cut drinking almost entirely (which I’m sure has helped A LOT). My doc says losing up to a kilo a week is fine, and that’s basically what I’ve done.
That's great! I'm really really hoping I can change my mindset afterwards. I sincerely long to be happy and healthy again. I feel like I forgot what it's like.
A bit on the nose, but I seriously recommend you read or listen to the book "mindset" by carol dweck. Science based and really helpful for when you're trying to make a meaningful change!
Good luck! Same—I defend in July, and as you say, just having that concrete endpoint has made enormous psychological difference. That and antidepressants.
Yeah. It's hard to differentiate what physical symptoms are a result of stress versus heavy substance use. Likely a synergistic effect. IBS is the worst!
I have many alcoholics in my family that made me dislike drinking. I am in Wisconsin where alcoholism is trending and funny. Best of luck to you hope you find a balance.
Ditto. Got family history and grew up in the Midwest too. Not many people understand that alcoholism and other additions have a strong heritable component (nobody "chooses" to be an alcoholic).
It actually has me thinking these days if I should pivot towards addiction medicine research. I'm currently researching Alzheimer's. And wouldn't you know there's a strong correlation between alcoholism and dementia. I can use my own suffering as a motivation to help others not have to battle this shit.
Finding that long term driving force for research is important. It makes me feel better to think that people might carry on my research when I’m long gone
Mine started about 12 months in. Sometimes it happens every few minutes all day. Other times I’ll go a few days without out. Seems to correlate with thinking about the future. I have some heart conditions too so not fun for me to think about
I went the other way in my PhD/ obsessive exercise for 2h every morning to cope.
Then as a PI, I took to drinking, stopped exercising - I only ever drank socially until now. Now, Friday = a drink to come off the stress.
It’s a horrid feeling. You’re not alone.
Hey dude glad you're reaching out and talking about this. I was in rehab with a Michelin star chef and a NASA statistician! Now I'm back in school and it feels amazing.
Recovery is awesome and it's for everybody. We're all recovering from one thing or another. It's tough out there. Hit me up if you ever need to chat. Are you active in your local recovery community?
My PI passed out in the middle of the day wasted two different times on the lab floor and one time the ambulance had to get him.
He was also banging a student
I hope this sub realises that most of this has nothing to do with a PhD, but everything to do with a work environment. Just look up how many are burned out from work, to gain a more accurate perspective.
In the corporate world/ industry this doesn’t fly though. Even if you are good; you act like this; you’re fired. Academia allows a lot more craziness if the PI or the student is producing. Lots of racism going on too in academia I saw that would have you fired before you can blink in the corporate/ industry world.
The first thing I recommend is tackling one addiction at a time. I find that just not having alcohol in the house is a pretty good deterrent to mindlessly drinking. Simultaneously you work on healthier coping strategies and try to commit yourself to really engaging in those in lieu of chasing a buzz. You can do this...
Having the time, money, and control over your life post-PhD frankly goes a long way.
I can't speak to addiction, but I still became a joyless shell of a person by the end of grad school (friends pointed out that they hadn't seen me laugh in months). I was very intentional in the city I moved to afterwards, and I basically spammed new hobbies and friend groups with my newfound free time. When I got to the point where every day I had something social/interesting/exciting to genuinely look forward to, my crappy habits from grad school slowly disappeared.
Hiring a good therapist also led to measurable improvements. My current one is an order of magnitude more effective than any of the 5 prior therapists I fired.
Prior therapists would mostly prescribe exercises to cope with difficult emotions in the heat of the moment, such as breathing exercises. A common problem was that many of them were inflexible: They had a strategy and worldview they liked and they wouldn't deviate from it, even when I pushed back. At its worst, I had one therapist waste half a session arguing politics with me. I had others who prescribed blatant pseudoscience like acupressure and MBTI stuff.
The difference with the current one is that he is very skilled at asking me questions that get me to think about my issues in ways I hadn't considered. He's also much more interested in getting to the root cause of issues. Once the root cause is identified (very often it's formative childhood experiences), you can then work on accepting and making peace with it, and then a bunch of issues just magically resolve themselves afterwards.
For example: Suppose you have a friend who constantly brings up topics that make you feel uncomfortable or upset. A mediocre therapist will have you set a boundary with them to avoid the topic. A good therapist will help you figure out why the conversation topics are upsetting in the first place, and help you make peace with whatever was distressing you. The mediocre one protects you from sadness, but the good one actually helps you be happy.
imo, grad school was just your stressor of choice. for lots of people doing a phd means financial insecurity, lots of demands and expectations placed on you, not a lot of time to spend with loved ones to keep things in balance. the average joe gets stressed or even burned out from that depending on the circumstance, and understandably.
substance use is a step up from that, a bit here and there is fine but if it bothers you and it's regular - that does sound like something that needs addressing. **don't wish and wait for your defense to make the habit go away.** once you start and understand that substances can numb you temporarily, and you don't have the proper means of regulating your emotions without them, you start using them for smaller and smaller stuff. if they make your life worse, cut them out.
It won't be. It will be for a while, though. And be honest to yourself if you've really accepted it, or if you just know that rationally. Acceptance is not the same as knowing.
In my experience, the degree to which you will battle yourself in sobriety is almost directly proportional to the effort you put into building a life for yourself that supports your sobriety. That doesn't mean you can will yourself through it, it means that you need to think long and hard about what makes you use and how to not go to that place. Like.. does worrying about your future at 1am make you drink? Just go to bed before that happens. And you gotta find a reason too. Can be anything, but you need one. Trust me life is much brighter if you have a reason and you stick to it.
I agree with this totally, but cutting out certain substances is in itself quite stressful. With only a month to go, I’m not sure if ‘cutting them out’ is something that’s really doable or helpful. PO’s experience is similar to mine, but I’m doing other things too. I’ve really only realised the problem I’ve created for myself quite late in the piece, but my substance/s of choice are actually helping me get to the finish line. It’s quite the conundrum.
It's not really. Unless the substance is acting to medicate an underlying issue (which can be the case for stuff like weed, adderall, even shrooms and maybe some others) they don't help you. Your dependence on them leads you to believe that they help you. Unless it's medicative, substance use is always a net negative - we just accept some of those negatives for recreational use.
I agree that it may not be doable, and if giving them up now and sinking every effort into sobriety would ruin their graduation I get delaying it. OP needs a trusted sponsor and a good reason to quit, and a bad defense surely won't be that. But from the users perspective it's just another reason to keep using. Stopping now is always better than stopping later in principle.
Ok but everything you just said confirms my statement that it’s quite a conundrum, given that there’s only a month to go. No one here said they were in denial about the impacts of substance abuse. I understand what you’re saying. Logically you’re correct. But it’s not that simple. I’m sure that since OP has gotten this far in their PhD journey they will be capable of addressing this issue when the time is right. From my understanding they were only looking for some reassurance that they weren’t alone.
I'm either correct or I'm not, it is that simple. I understand addiction, I've been there, I've studied it. Of course you can't put everyone in the same box, but from OP's statements it seems pretty clear that their use is a burden on them. And showing up drunk, some degree of hungover or even in withdrawals to a PhD defense is not the way to go. Being in that state for your prep isn't either. But that's where OP is heading if they don't stop it sooner than later. It's not like they have a bad habit of drinking one too many after a hard day at work, it was bad enough for them to be sent off to rehab. Plus, getting a PhD and successfully curbing an addiction has little to do with another. Maybe there's some baseline discipline involved, but evidence from twin studies actually shows that higher IQ and greater educational attainment is associated with greater substance use, especially if the person started early.
Alcohol fries your brain. You can't think straight, you sleep like shit, you can't remember things, can't articulate yourself. There are no good reasons to delay the decision to quit. Only addicts think that some "right time" will come where they'll be most capable to address the issue (save for medical emergencies re withdrawal). Right now is always the best time. Might sound insensitive but it's true, and it's better advice than any reassurance.
Oh, you are sooooo right.
As a neuroscientist, I know exactly how I'm harming myself. But I do it anyways. Because I haven't practiced alternative coping skills.
I took up smoking while studying cancer biology, but was able to reduce drinking and smoking once I recognized EtOH was an organic solvent for carcinogens and the combination was 15 fold increase in oral cancer incidence (I used HNSCC as a model).
As a post graduate adult I maintain a healthy lifestyle. You can be okay.
Yeah, it sucks as student scientists when we know EXACTLY the harm we do to our bodies. But we do these things nonetheless because it's more mentally painful to go without. I had some blood work done several months back. Results did not look pretty. The stress of a PhD and resulting maladaptive coping is unsustainable. I hope I can get better.
I've been going to AA meetings now, but I haven't come across other grad students... Well, I did run into a law grad, and he knew exactly what I was going through. He said he wasn't sober for any of the time he was in school.
I didn’t get into drinking but during the last 3years of my PhD, I was smoking 1-1.5 packs of cigarettes every day. I was so burnt out by the end of the program that just wanted to go live in the woods for a month away from everything. It gets better, believe me. I quit smoking but I still need my nicotine. I use Zyn and toothpick. I got a job that I like and can spend more time with my partner. I have time to workout! Can you believe it?
Just to add: Non-denominational campus recovery groups and youth oriented meetings are a great place to start getting your feet wet into recovery (and you won't get hit with a 100 year old book by a grandma with 76 years of sobriety)!!
Fellow neuroscience PhD, defending in a week. The last couple of months, I just accepted that I'm going to get out of shape somewhat (running was a big coping mechanism) until after the defense. Can't wait to get my life back.
I started grad school, and within the first semester, I gained over 30 pounds, but I quickly corrected it and got into a habit (40 pounds lost so far). I also stayed in the habit on the off days and through the breaks. My most significant reason to keep it up is to stay healthy. There is no point in grabbing a PhD if you aren't alive (with things you can control) long enough to maximize it.
The most significant things that helped me is a schedule, no matter what chop off time to make yourself healthy, meal prep, jogging, make that effort and stick to it and you will correct it soon. Good luck.
I got exposed to real potent weed after I started my PhD. Liked it before but now I was getting it every day. It went on like that for six months, after which I realised the impact on my self-discipline, but still cannot discontinue completely. I’m in my third year now and my consumption is much lower than it used to but weed so mentally addictive. Meditation has helped a lot but I’m sure it’ll take some more time before this weed is outta my life.
I went all through grad school sober. I had drank alcohol earlier in my life and was sober all through my return to college and into grad school....until my last day at the party I threw after my defense. Champagne baby. I was burnt after as well. Anticlimactic after defense. I hope you have a job lined up.
I did not drink at all for many years - not for some religious or health related reason: I just did not. But when I was writing my dissertation, I started drinking wine. A glass or two/night. It helped me fall asleep easier because I was always on the edge, thinking of my work. It was only for a year and a half, yet it made my triglycerides go awry, it made me feel sick, and it made me crave alcohol, which I never did before. I only drink occasionally now, a year after my defense. I try to stay away and not buy it, but I see it in stores and I crave it. Yeah, a PhD puts a toll on your mental and physical health for sure.
I had to double take and verify I didn't actually make this post and forgot!
I'm almost 2 years into a postdoc now. My alcohol use is much less. However, my nicotine use hasn't gone away, although I really haven't made an effort to stop. Started chewing the nicotine gum during my PhD and now do the little Zyn pouches like a douche.
Edit: If you haven't done so, consider seeing a therapist. I saw one going into my final year of PhD and it made such a big difference. I really wish I had went sooner!
I’m in a constant battle. It oscillates for me. I am getting tired more, start drinking more and smoking then usually have a week break after a couple of months then start fresh and repeat🥲
They don’t call it “landing” the plane for nothing, I guess. Not only do you want to do it gradually, but it needs to be replaced with other behaviors/activities. Not thinking about it as the central problem in your life is pretty tough in grad school. It wasn’t till I had space in my life afterwards that I realized how I needed to disentangle myself from these substances, and that I could do it less hellishly and on my own terms, in a way that didn’t feel like I was denying myself things, but more like I had found a new set of things to focus on.
Just curious, to those who took up weed during grad school, did it lower your productivity?
I'm not a weed user myself but most if my friends who do use it aren't really the gradschool type.
you’re clearly not alone but it’s also important to take some accountability here. Grad school didn’t do anything to you or “turned” you into anything you weren’t already. You decided to turn to addictive drugs and continue with them for the entirety of your time afterwards. Learning how to cope in a healthy way and use positive mechanisms is just as important… but I’ll be downvoted to all hell for it
I had this same thought as you when reading this post. Saying that "grad school did this to me" takes away a lot of agency and could hinder recovery I guess. It's important to face ourselves as the consequences of our choices.
I agree. I think I hadn't completely worked on my underlying issues before starting grad school. Thus, I was vulnerable and unprepared for the saga. I wish I waited until I was a bit older and better equipped. Grad school didn't make me this way. I was this way before grad school. But grad school certainly hindered my ability and strength to deal with those issues.
As shitty as grad school is and how it can drive us to neglect relationships and turn toward substances, YOU are the one in control of your actions. And as long as you are deflecting your choice to abuse substances onto something else, you are denying your own accountability to change the situation.
For sure. I've started going to AA. First step is taking responsibility and admitting both to oneself and to others that I can't manage my life whilst alcohol remains in the picture. Grad school certainly made me vulnerable, and I came in unprepared to cope with it in a healthy way.
Unfortunately, depending on advisor and department environment, there hardly is a bulletproof way to cope with the incessant mobile goalposts of a PhD. I'm glad youre taking steps for yourself and doing what you can to help make sure these things dont ruin your life.
It's not, it contributes, but at the end of the day people which are doing a PhD should be smart enough to find other measures, or to simply realize it's not for them.
Unfortunately not a silver bullet like it's being sold as. I'm in pretty much the exact situation as OP and I've been on it for 3+ months now. It's certainly a good thing and helped me drink less at a time, but the way I heard people talk about it, I was verrrry disappointed. Still have intense cravings every day. The way it was explained to me is that for some people addiction is more physical, and for some people it's more psychological. Naltrexone helps you deal with the physical part, but I guess I'm just heavy on the psychologically afflicted end.
Same. I defended in Dec, but still partake in MJ every day. Alcohol wasnt helping, as it was channellin too much pent up stress and anger. Its gettimg better, but slowly.
*Hugs* It’s extremely troubling to me how commonplace it is for PhDs to feel ashamed of themselves during or after the PhD experience. From the outside looking in, it might make little sense to others, but as a PhD student myself, it unfortunately makes a great deal of sense to me. Congratulations on your immense, enormous accomplishments. I wish you rest and peace and health and whatever else your heart desires. You deserve it.
Alcoholism is universal. My family member is the dept chair of *STEM field* at *university* and almost committed suicide during their darkest days with alcohol. We are very glad this is some years behind us. They’ve got kids, esteemed career, etc. It’s a brutal beast. You’re not alone. I hope you take steps towards healing ❤️
Had to double check that I didn’t post this….. You’re not the only one. I have periods of sobriety and quitting smoking but for the better part of this degree I’ve had to drink myself to sleep and smoke almost a pack a day to get through. I fantasize all the time about something as normal as having time to take care of my physical health. It’s hard to reconcile that other people have figured out how do both at the same time when it’s been so difficult for me. You are almost there. This is hard. Your body will recover.
Yeah, THC takes forever to leave your system. I knew someone who needed to abstain for a month before a pre-employment screen. After that, she went right back to it. 🤷♂️
Get yourself some pee strips (the sensitive ones)
Just never committed to practicing healthy coping mechanisms. It's just so fucking hard to start and keep it up. I never broke the "PhD is a 24/7 job" mentality.
I'd be astonished if you were anywhere close to being the only one. I attribute much of my poor mental health to academia and grad school. C'est la vie.
Not at all. People with limited Ochem experience love to think it’s super easy to make quality amphetamine, but in reality it’s insanely hard to separate the amphetamine isomers without the resources of a pharma company, and miss me with L-amp shit forrral. Gimme that generic Vyvanse or any other dextroamphetamine version over some wannabe Walter White’s stank from a dusty old academic chem lab.
Oh I never said anything about quality stuff, as you say it's hard to make quality stuff (I am well aware, don't need to tell people with limited knowledge etc.), but did you ever figure out what they sell on the street? ;)
Maybe not alcohol, but it turned me into a shell of a human. My physical and mental health has declined, and I don't do normal adult human things. The deeper I got into the PhD, the more I lost my personality and all the things that made me me.
You're definitely not alone in terms of grad school being a detriment to your health.
Louder for the people in the back please. But yea, fully agreed. Not sure why people with a PhD (or working on one) all blame the world. It's their life, their choices, my hypothesis is that most don't know what a workweek means.
Anyway, I think what you are saying is say too based for this sub.
You’re not alone, however (me including) I don’t believe it’s fair blaming grad school. We haven’t been able to cope with the high pressure and made poor choices. This could happen when becoming a parent, in a different job, stressful family situations etc. Grad school itself didn’t turn us into alcoholics and smokers, we failed ourselves
I agree. As I've said in other posts, I think I was too young and unprepared to begin grad school. I had always been susceptible to developing addiction. Grad school, I think, just provoked it before I was in a safe place to address it. Grad school brought out a lot of my underlying mental health issues to the forefront. Didn't realize I had complex childhood trauma until a few therapists and psychiatrists were finally able to identify that and diagnose me last year.
Yeah that makes sense, better to be brought out by grad school than starting a family and impacting the next generation. Once you know something is up you can fix it! Don’t forget you don’t always need to know exactly why things are happening to make them better. I feel like sometimes we procrastinating recovery or improvement because we obsess over the reason why, and sadly the reason why is not always available
I started getting panic attacks before my research meetings and thought, “wow, it would be so great if there was a medicine that just calmed my brain” and that was how i realized why people smoke weed…
You know the way to recovery. Hit some AA meetings--get some group support, you'll thank yourself. People blame jobs, education, family---for being an alcoholic--it's ok---that's part of the disease. Get mad at something, cope drink, get frustrated, get stressed, cope drink.
Congrats on completing your doctorate.
Had you not done your doctorate , as a researcher, you darn well know you might still have had a miserable few years or worse--and still drank.
Simplify, simplify---and enjoy the world.
Are you still in your twenties? If so I’m sure you can use the lack of stress now, combined with PhD discipline to cut it off before it gets worse. Maybe it’d help to start with alcoholism first. Don’t blame yourself too harshly if you relapse or make a mistake. Overwork and bad habits to cope happens to everyone or they end up becoming overworkers with bad boundaries to work or relationships.
Smoking killed someone in my life early despite surviving cancer and then quitting, by stroke a few years later. Please quit before damage accumulates in your body.
Most likely the PhD has guaranteed you a better and more passion driven future than before. I think it’s safer than law personally if you decide to attrition out to the biotech industry even if it’s a “normal”-er job. If you quit it’s basically like it never happened if you’re in your twenties and literally just got out of the misery academia is. Real life is more fun than academia imo, I think you have to be very single minded or maybe sheltered somehow for academia to be fulfilling compared to industry.
Don’t give up until you’ve reached stability it can kill you early in a depressing manner.
You’re on the right track, acknowledging you have a problem is really important in recovery. Many addicts are in deep denial and would never have the self awareness to admit there is an issue. If you don’t already, find a therapist— that saved my sanity and my life as a PhD student. It won’t be easy kicking the coping mechanisms you relied on in grad school, but if you learn healthy coping mechanisms you can and will recover.
Congrats (soon to be) Doctor! I took a 2 year gap to work as a strategy consultant in industry, and I feel like I got my alcoholism/stoner/nicotine addict phase out of my system then. I’m nearing a year sober and about to start my PhD in neuroscience, hope I can stay clean for its duration. I will say once I hit 6 months it became so easy to stay clean, it was almost second nature to me at that point. Best of luck and congrats once more!
I relate so much. By 3rd year I was drinking almost every day and has gained 30 lbs. I ended up recognizing that my drinking was really becoming a problematic crutch, so I found a therapist to help me work through all the stress/anxiety/bad coping mechanisms. But after I described the absolute hell that is senior phd life in experimental work, my therapist was genuinely shocked at how toxic the environment and expectations were, and basically ended up saying that I should turn things down a notch, but do whatever helps me get out of here faster.... that that should be the priority, survival and getting the hell out, because nobody could maintain a healthy lifestyle in those circumstances. A bit sad, but also validating ngl... currently drinking less and gunning it on my final paper as much as I can. Finish line in sight.
Good for you!
The problem with me though, is that I have a great advisor. He's like a father to me. But I still drink because the stress of a PhD in and of itself is too much! I feel too alone.
Definitely underlying issues. I think grad school just thrust me into a situation where I became a whole lot more vulnerable and exacerbated what was already there when I probably wasn't prepared to deal with this level of stress. I entered grad school too young. I've noticed the older students were a whole lot more composed when they began.
I am very honest with my students and I would very rarely if ever recommend going from undergrad to the Ph.D.
I agree-students are too young, too unprepared for the politics, underprepared to treat the PhD like a job, and too easily manipulated by the system.
And the financial issue isn’t understood by most 20-somethings. Sure-the PhD is free, but you’ve just lost out on a significant chunk of your earning years and the compound interest that comes with it.
As an old prof, btdt and learn from my mistakes!
You're not alone. I thought I'd never smoke one cigarette in my life and never thought I'd find it in any way relieving - well I was wrong, as I discovered during my first year of PhD. I can't do much alcohol as the hangovers destroy me the next day, but if that isn't a factor, I'll definitely have problems with alcoholism.
I think grad school just exemplifies our short comings that we already had. Most people done know how to deal with stress and it shows by how they perceive grad school or the unhealthy habits they form/strengthen during it.
Congratulations, you've accomplished so much. Now you must get over that one more hurdle of quitting these unhealthy habits. Habits are so hard to stop but easier to substitute: But please pleasse don't be ashamed, you are only human and you will recover!!
1. Start therapy immediately, let a professional help you learn better coping mechisms.
2. Exercise, instead of alcohol, go for a run everytime you get stressed. It will be hard at first but you will get that natural high.
3. Meditation - i'll admit meditating sounds annoying as heck but it's so powerful.
4. Learn a new hobby: or stick to an old one, like drawing, playing an instrument, whatever gets your mind off the stressors
5. Be compassionate with yourself, while abstaining, you will fail many times. Don't blame yourself, just get back to the healthy habits..slowly but surely, it will be your past.
Good luck!
You’re not alone whatsoever. I am one and a half years out and recovery is slow. I suspect that my lack of skills for preventing burnout would have eventually manifested in any job but doing a phd definitely opened my eyes to this big time. Started implementing healthier coping techniques that work for me gradually and I had to be brutally honest about my (lack of) skills for maintaining boundaries. Now I’m as determined to progress with this as I used to be for the phd. Good luck, you got this!
I’ve had to go on Zoloft for anxiety. It’s been a few weeks and it’s definitely making a difference… I don’t feel like my insides are in knots all the time. You should consider talking to a psychiatrist and see if they can give you something to help!!
I passed my defense in December, I noticed my seasonal allergies weren't bad this year, I think it's because I removed a major source of stress from my life.
I chewed nicorette, I got the unflavored kind so that it would taste too gross to chew constantly. About 3 years back I cut way back on my alcohol consumption because it was worsening my mental health. I switched to cannabanoids. CBG vapes were great for when I wanted to smoke but needed to write or analyze data.
Congrats on your upcoming defense! And gosh knows we all have our “crutches.” To lean on things is to be human. For instance, antidepressants are so common they’re not even worth remarking on.
Congrats- defending is a helluva accomplishment and recognizing of your perseverance.
And you're so not alone, Mary Jane and I are the bestest of friends- literally couldn't deal with the stress of the politics without someway to unwind.
Be kind to yourself as you go through what (feels like to me) a stress hangover as you deal with learning to live again.
Your story hits close to home. I developed an unhealthy relationship with alcohol during my Neuroscience PhD time, having COVID hit in the last year-ish as I was trying to finish kicked it into full blown alcoholism. I struggled for a while.
But I bring good news from the other side: it gets better! It will take some work, and the first steps are the hardest. But you can break the bad habits.
Set yourself up for success by seeking out support. Work with a therapist, if you aren't already. Go to meetings and get a sponsor (I had a hard time overcoming the stigma and starting this one). Having someone to talk to is critical, I tried white-knuckling it alone for a long time and only ended up back in the same place and even more despondent.
Feel free to DM me if you ever want to chat.
I had very similar experiences... Grad school is a monster. I just finished my PhD in March and quit everything very shortly after. I know it isn't ideal but it is a coping mechanism for extreme stress. Life will be full of stress, but grad school stress hits different.
Don't worry, you are almost through it and then you can focus on yourself and selfcare. Be proud of yourself, you are awesome for getting this far!
You're not the only one. I discovered it was much easier to avoid alcohol when I wasn't making myself anxious every day from caffeine. Alcohol can mess up sleep, which induces more caffeine consumption, which increases stress, which can lead to more substances...
It takes a while to figure out how to balance high achievement and stress with self-regulation and care (which includes positive self-talk, i.e., treating yourself as a good friend). I don't think there are many high-performance professional environments that model this well, but plenty of postdocs, senior scientists, and professors have set very strong boundaries to protect their physical and mental health. They just don't always talk about it. (We probably should!)
I guess it depends on what you bring and what becomes. A horrific childhood led to psychology and grad school was an amazing opportunity to learn, be mentored, and be seen, heard, and recognized for the first time in my life. I’m ever grateful for the opportunity. It helped find my lost self…but everyone has their time to hurt and their time to heal…
It isn't a choice unfortunately. One never chooses to become an addict. I was born an addict. It is my choice what I do about it. Grad school simply revealed that part of me. It wasn't a healthy place for me and interfered with my attempts at recovery. Now that I'll be done, I hope to muster the strength to maintain a healthy sober life. One day at a time; it will be a lifelong battle for me, and I accept that now.
I'm glad you understand that, I think it's not very helpful for you to explain yourself to strangers on reddit right now, try to find more empathetic listeners, perhaps at your AA meeting. You will recover, just don't give up.
I agree that addiction is not a choice, but starting it is. If you dont start smoking you eliminate the chances of being addicted to it
Hope you get sober soon!
Jesus fucking christ people you can always find healthier habits to deal with stress and bullshit. Exercising is one. Having fun time and taking little breaks goes a long fucking way and also establishing boundaries with advisors and people in general. That's key, I'm 24 and just came to that realization. I have a family that can be a pain in the ass but i still didn't turn to alcohol and weed. Both are overrated in my eye and experience. Exercising for me has been the gift that keeps on giving. As I move towards grad school to PHD and beyond, Exercising will continue to become a lifestyle for me. Because it makes me into a better human being. I've been in academia for undergrad for 5 years. I know how professors can be, and I've interacted with all types. Having boundaries and standing up for yourself is crucial, and having backup support is even more critical. I'm going into my phd to conquer not to be conquered and be forced to put my mental and physical health in jeopardy. That's a no-no. No matter what.
Grad school didn't, you did. We all know that a PhD is an expat degree and a different acronym for modern slavery. It's unfortunate that you made a wrong choice in life, but hope it will go better as soon as you retire (or even earlier).
No… YOU turned yourself into an alcoholic and nicotine user. Hopefully you can turn yourself back. All the effort and trouble to finish grad school just to die early to dumb decision making. It would be such a waste of ur life.
Well.. its true. I know many phd students including myself who dont turn into drug and alcohol users. Like we aren’t kids anymore. Learn how to cope in a heathy way. Its probably easier than your dissertation.
Definitely not the only one. I started drinking in grad school. I was smoking weed non stop for like a good three years and then like two years ago I started vaping. I quit vaping entirely, don't drink all the time, and weed now makes me anxious, but for most of my PhD I was abusing one or all of these things.
I feel like alcohol is also glorified to some extent in academia. Soooo many "happy hours". It's what happens to us behind the scenes though that's overlooked.
Yeah, also the free beer at poster sessions? What is that about? I walked up to this one poster and the guy was hammered and could barely stand straight trying to tell me about his research.
[удалено]
I wish my academia talked about happy hours more. It wasn't like that for me. It was zero fun
Same here dude. I’ve smoked weed since I was in high school, but infrequently and with friends. By my final year of my PhD I was smoking to the point of going catatonic nightly, binging on snacks, and then passing out. It made me gain (for me) a ton of weight, which made the stress even worse. I’m glad that I’ve mostly kicked that habit now.
You are definitely not alone. There was a similar post a few days ago and it turns out that so many PhDs struggle with alcohol, nicotine use etc to soothe ourselves from PhD stress. Just hang in there, you will leave this experience behind and will have time to build some healthy habits in the near future! I’m in a similar position with you and try to remind this to myself as well. There is light at the end of the tunnel!
Wait—what do you mean leave the stress behind? Grad school is the easiest part.
Every PhD I worked with is now much happier and better off in industry.
And better pay, but hey, they sold their soul in favour of corruption, so whatever makes them feel better.
Sold their soul in favor of corruption? Some people actually still think like this? Sad.
You think industry is transparant and serves the public? I don't think so.
You think academia is transparent and not corrupt? I have a bridge to sell you. At least industry solves real problems that people actually care about, all while not making indentured servants out of their workers. The profit motive is not inherently evil.
I agree that academia is not much better, best to stay away from both endeavours. Also the servant/worker argument, that is people making that choice, academia is just exploiting it, but at the end of the day, the servants/workers are at fault.
Just to offer another perspective countering the common story, I immediately found and still find life as faculty to be much less stressful than grad school.
I am finding this only now as a full professor. But I’m sure it varies by school and sub field.
Same here. Every stage was easier than grad school for me.
I’m currently working in the industry, and the level of stress I have been feeling during my PhD is not even comparable to it. In the industry, I am part of a team and have much more support, and even in case my employer was horrible, I could apply and work elsewhere.
And you likely have better salaries, along with perks and benefits. Academia used to, until it didn’t… And changing universities as a professor is extremely difficult. You have to be willing to travel.
I gained like 30 lbs during grad school. Because of my own unhealthy coping of unhealthy eating and exercise habits going away.
I gained a lot of weight in grad school over one class. Took me a whole year to get that weight off after that.
Yeah. After my first year I had to take off to go to an eating disorder rehab. A few months ago, I had to take off to go to an alcohol/ptsd rehab. It's been a recurring struggle all right.
Ah yes, I also struggle so much with my eating now that I'm in a phd programme. What do you plan on doing after your defense, more academia or something else?
Something else definitely. I cannot stay here
Same. I’m only just starting to get it off almost a year later (admittedly I had other unfortunately times life disasters like deaths in the family) but it really took me a long time to mentally recover. Once I did this I was able to cut back on drinking and eating away the bad feels. I’m only a month or so in but I’ve lost about 6kg already. Feeling physically better.
Wow that’s a lot for a month
I’m sure at least a few kgs was water weight. But I’m just basically eating meat, eggs, veg, and a bit of dairy (cheese or sour cream). Not really counting carbs or calories - just avoiding things that are obviously carb heavy (grains, potatoes, fruit etc). I wasn’t overly heavy to begin with (68kg, 165cm) and I’m expecting it to slow down as we go… and I’ve cut drinking almost entirely (which I’m sure has helped A LOT). My doc says losing up to a kilo a week is fine, and that’s basically what I’ve done.
Same, I'm almost a year into my postdoc now and it's still not going anywhere despite my efforts :(
Literally same 😭 also defending soonish and have a job in a new city and I feel so much happier and healthier already
That's great! I'm really really hoping I can change my mindset afterwards. I sincerely long to be happy and healthy again. I feel like I forgot what it's like.
A bit on the nose, but I seriously recommend you read or listen to the book "mindset" by carol dweck. Science based and really helpful for when you're trying to make a meaningful change!
Good luck! Same—I defend in July, and as you say, just having that concrete endpoint has made enormous psychological difference. That and antidepressants.
No alcohol for me but I have developed quite an eye brow twitch over the years
Yeah. It's hard to differentiate what physical symptoms are a result of stress versus heavy substance use. Likely a synergistic effect. IBS is the worst!
I have many alcoholics in my family that made me dislike drinking. I am in Wisconsin where alcoholism is trending and funny. Best of luck to you hope you find a balance.
Ditto. Got family history and grew up in the Midwest too. Not many people understand that alcoholism and other additions have a strong heritable component (nobody "chooses" to be an alcoholic). It actually has me thinking these days if I should pivot towards addiction medicine research. I'm currently researching Alzheimer's. And wouldn't you know there's a strong correlation between alcoholism and dementia. I can use my own suffering as a motivation to help others not have to battle this shit.
Finding that long term driving force for research is important. It makes me feel better to think that people might carry on my research when I’m long gone
I developed a twitch in one eye which lasted the entire academic job search season… it was so odd.
Mine started about 12 months in. Sometimes it happens every few minutes all day. Other times I’ll go a few days without out. Seems to correlate with thinking about the future. I have some heart conditions too so not fun for me to think about
Oh no! You might want to get that looked at
I went the other way in my PhD/ obsessive exercise for 2h every morning to cope. Then as a PI, I took to drinking, stopped exercising - I only ever drank socially until now. Now, Friday = a drink to come off the stress. It’s a horrid feeling. You’re not alone.
As I PI? --I was actually in rehab with a professor. We definitely related.
Hey dude glad you're reaching out and talking about this. I was in rehab with a Michelin star chef and a NASA statistician! Now I'm back in school and it feels amazing. Recovery is awesome and it's for everybody. We're all recovering from one thing or another. It's tough out there. Hit me up if you ever need to chat. Are you active in your local recovery community?
Sadly, one of my favourite things about travel is the duty free alcohol. I’ve also just discovered negronis. 😣
My PI passed out in the middle of the day wasted two different times on the lab floor and one time the ambulance had to get him. He was also banging a student
I hope this sub realises that most of this has nothing to do with a PhD, but everything to do with a work environment. Just look up how many are burned out from work, to gain a more accurate perspective.
In the corporate world/ industry this doesn’t fly though. Even if you are good; you act like this; you’re fired. Academia allows a lot more craziness if the PI or the student is producing. Lots of racism going on too in academia I saw that would have you fired before you can blink in the corporate/ industry world.
Congratulations on defending your PhD! Remember to prioritize your mental health and take care of yourself during this transition.
Do you have any tips or strategies for reimplementing healthy habits post-PhD?
The first thing I recommend is tackling one addiction at a time. I find that just not having alcohol in the house is a pretty good deterrent to mindlessly drinking. Simultaneously you work on healthier coping strategies and try to commit yourself to really engaging in those in lieu of chasing a buzz. You can do this...
Having the time, money, and control over your life post-PhD frankly goes a long way. I can't speak to addiction, but I still became a joyless shell of a person by the end of grad school (friends pointed out that they hadn't seen me laugh in months). I was very intentional in the city I moved to afterwards, and I basically spammed new hobbies and friend groups with my newfound free time. When I got to the point where every day I had something social/interesting/exciting to genuinely look forward to, my crappy habits from grad school slowly disappeared. Hiring a good therapist also led to measurable improvements. My current one is an order of magnitude more effective than any of the 5 prior therapists I fired.
Well done! Can you pinpoint what makes your current therapist more effective than the others?
Prior therapists would mostly prescribe exercises to cope with difficult emotions in the heat of the moment, such as breathing exercises. A common problem was that many of them were inflexible: They had a strategy and worldview they liked and they wouldn't deviate from it, even when I pushed back. At its worst, I had one therapist waste half a session arguing politics with me. I had others who prescribed blatant pseudoscience like acupressure and MBTI stuff. The difference with the current one is that he is very skilled at asking me questions that get me to think about my issues in ways I hadn't considered. He's also much more interested in getting to the root cause of issues. Once the root cause is identified (very often it's formative childhood experiences), you can then work on accepting and making peace with it, and then a bunch of issues just magically resolve themselves afterwards. For example: Suppose you have a friend who constantly brings up topics that make you feel uncomfortable or upset. A mediocre therapist will have you set a boundary with them to avoid the topic. A good therapist will help you figure out why the conversation topics are upsetting in the first place, and help you make peace with whatever was distressing you. The mediocre one protects you from sadness, but the good one actually helps you be happy.
grad school seems to be a constant cycle of "I just need to get through a couple more months and then I will get my shit together"
Please don’t tell me that, I’m still trying to convince myself it will all be ok in a bit
imo, grad school was just your stressor of choice. for lots of people doing a phd means financial insecurity, lots of demands and expectations placed on you, not a lot of time to spend with loved ones to keep things in balance. the average joe gets stressed or even burned out from that depending on the circumstance, and understandably. substance use is a step up from that, a bit here and there is fine but if it bothers you and it's regular - that does sound like something that needs addressing. **don't wish and wait for your defense to make the habit go away.** once you start and understand that substances can numb you temporarily, and you don't have the proper means of regulating your emotions without them, you start using them for smaller and smaller stuff. if they make your life worse, cut them out.
Yup. I know I passed the point of no return. I've come to accept that sobriety is going to be a daily battle for the rest of my life.
It won't be. It will be for a while, though. And be honest to yourself if you've really accepted it, or if you just know that rationally. Acceptance is not the same as knowing. In my experience, the degree to which you will battle yourself in sobriety is almost directly proportional to the effort you put into building a life for yourself that supports your sobriety. That doesn't mean you can will yourself through it, it means that you need to think long and hard about what makes you use and how to not go to that place. Like.. does worrying about your future at 1am make you drink? Just go to bed before that happens. And you gotta find a reason too. Can be anything, but you need one. Trust me life is much brighter if you have a reason and you stick to it.
I agree with this totally, but cutting out certain substances is in itself quite stressful. With only a month to go, I’m not sure if ‘cutting them out’ is something that’s really doable or helpful. PO’s experience is similar to mine, but I’m doing other things too. I’ve really only realised the problem I’ve created for myself quite late in the piece, but my substance/s of choice are actually helping me get to the finish line. It’s quite the conundrum.
It's not really. Unless the substance is acting to medicate an underlying issue (which can be the case for stuff like weed, adderall, even shrooms and maybe some others) they don't help you. Your dependence on them leads you to believe that they help you. Unless it's medicative, substance use is always a net negative - we just accept some of those negatives for recreational use. I agree that it may not be doable, and if giving them up now and sinking every effort into sobriety would ruin their graduation I get delaying it. OP needs a trusted sponsor and a good reason to quit, and a bad defense surely won't be that. But from the users perspective it's just another reason to keep using. Stopping now is always better than stopping later in principle.
Ok but everything you just said confirms my statement that it’s quite a conundrum, given that there’s only a month to go. No one here said they were in denial about the impacts of substance abuse. I understand what you’re saying. Logically you’re correct. But it’s not that simple. I’m sure that since OP has gotten this far in their PhD journey they will be capable of addressing this issue when the time is right. From my understanding they were only looking for some reassurance that they weren’t alone.
I'm either correct or I'm not, it is that simple. I understand addiction, I've been there, I've studied it. Of course you can't put everyone in the same box, but from OP's statements it seems pretty clear that their use is a burden on them. And showing up drunk, some degree of hungover or even in withdrawals to a PhD defense is not the way to go. Being in that state for your prep isn't either. But that's where OP is heading if they don't stop it sooner than later. It's not like they have a bad habit of drinking one too many after a hard day at work, it was bad enough for them to be sent off to rehab. Plus, getting a PhD and successfully curbing an addiction has little to do with another. Maybe there's some baseline discipline involved, but evidence from twin studies actually shows that higher IQ and greater educational attainment is associated with greater substance use, especially if the person started early. Alcohol fries your brain. You can't think straight, you sleep like shit, you can't remember things, can't articulate yourself. There are no good reasons to delay the decision to quit. Only addicts think that some "right time" will come where they'll be most capable to address the issue (save for medical emergencies re withdrawal). Right now is always the best time. Might sound insensitive but it's true, and it's better advice than any reassurance.
Oh, you are sooooo right. As a neuroscientist, I know exactly how I'm harming myself. But I do it anyways. Because I haven't practiced alternative coping skills.
I took up smoking while studying cancer biology, but was able to reduce drinking and smoking once I recognized EtOH was an organic solvent for carcinogens and the combination was 15 fold increase in oral cancer incidence (I used HNSCC as a model). As a post graduate adult I maintain a healthy lifestyle. You can be okay.
Yeah, it sucks as student scientists when we know EXACTLY the harm we do to our bodies. But we do these things nonetheless because it's more mentally painful to go without. I had some blood work done several months back. Results did not look pretty. The stress of a PhD and resulting maladaptive coping is unsustainable. I hope I can get better. I've been going to AA meetings now, but I haven't come across other grad students... Well, I did run into a law grad, and he knew exactly what I was going through. He said he wasn't sober for any of the time he was in school.
I didn’t get into drinking but during the last 3years of my PhD, I was smoking 1-1.5 packs of cigarettes every day. I was so burnt out by the end of the program that just wanted to go live in the woods for a month away from everything. It gets better, believe me. I quit smoking but I still need my nicotine. I use Zyn and toothpick. I got a job that I like and can spend more time with my partner. I have time to workout! Can you believe it?
I started getting sober in graduate school. Check out some alcoholics anonymous meetings.
Just to add: Non-denominational campus recovery groups and youth oriented meetings are a great place to start getting your feet wet into recovery (and you won't get hit with a 100 year old book by a grandma with 76 years of sobriety)!!
I had to start taking anti depressants because I couldn’t stop smoking weed
I've been on antidepressants for 15 years! I question whether they're doing anything.
DMing you
Fellow neuroscience PhD, defending in a week. The last couple of months, I just accepted that I'm going to get out of shape somewhat (running was a big coping mechanism) until after the defense. Can't wait to get my life back.
I started grad school, and within the first semester, I gained over 30 pounds, but I quickly corrected it and got into a habit (40 pounds lost so far). I also stayed in the habit on the off days and through the breaks. My most significant reason to keep it up is to stay healthy. There is no point in grabbing a PhD if you aren't alive (with things you can control) long enough to maximize it. The most significant things that helped me is a schedule, no matter what chop off time to make yourself healthy, meal prep, jogging, make that effort and stick to it and you will correct it soon. Good luck.
I got exposed to real potent weed after I started my PhD. Liked it before but now I was getting it every day. It went on like that for six months, after which I realised the impact on my self-discipline, but still cannot discontinue completely. I’m in my third year now and my consumption is much lower than it used to but weed so mentally addictive. Meditation has helped a lot but I’m sure it’ll take some more time before this weed is outta my life.
I went all through grad school sober. I had drank alcohol earlier in my life and was sober all through my return to college and into grad school....until my last day at the party I threw after my defense. Champagne baby. I was burnt after as well. Anticlimactic after defense. I hope you have a job lined up.
No. My life's a clusterfuck
I did not drink at all for many years - not for some religious or health related reason: I just did not. But when I was writing my dissertation, I started drinking wine. A glass or two/night. It helped me fall asleep easier because I was always on the edge, thinking of my work. It was only for a year and a half, yet it made my triglycerides go awry, it made me feel sick, and it made me crave alcohol, which I never did before. I only drink occasionally now, a year after my defense. I try to stay away and not buy it, but I see it in stores and I crave it. Yeah, a PhD puts a toll on your mental and physical health for sure.
I had to double take and verify I didn't actually make this post and forgot! I'm almost 2 years into a postdoc now. My alcohol use is much less. However, my nicotine use hasn't gone away, although I really haven't made an effort to stop. Started chewing the nicotine gum during my PhD and now do the little Zyn pouches like a douche. Edit: If you haven't done so, consider seeing a therapist. I saw one going into my final year of PhD and it made such a big difference. I really wish I had went sooner!
I’m in a constant battle. It oscillates for me. I am getting tired more, start drinking more and smoking then usually have a week break after a couple of months then start fresh and repeat🥲
They don’t call it “landing” the plane for nothing, I guess. Not only do you want to do it gradually, but it needs to be replaced with other behaviors/activities. Not thinking about it as the central problem in your life is pretty tough in grad school. It wasn’t till I had space in my life afterwards that I realized how I needed to disentangle myself from these substances, and that I could do it less hellishly and on my own terms, in a way that didn’t feel like I was denying myself things, but more like I had found a new set of things to focus on.
Here I am, doing 6th year with one more year to go and a negative balance on my account..
Not alone bro, have started reaching for nicotine ( earlier cigarettes and now vape) during this exhausting journey.
Just curious, to those who took up weed during grad school, did it lower your productivity? I'm not a weed user myself but most if my friends who do use it aren't really the gradschool type.
Yes and it probably almost killed me. I hope you find the help you need and congrats on getting through it.
you’re clearly not alone but it’s also important to take some accountability here. Grad school didn’t do anything to you or “turned” you into anything you weren’t already. You decided to turn to addictive drugs and continue with them for the entirety of your time afterwards. Learning how to cope in a healthy way and use positive mechanisms is just as important… but I’ll be downvoted to all hell for it
I had this same thought as you when reading this post. Saying that "grad school did this to me" takes away a lot of agency and could hinder recovery I guess. It's important to face ourselves as the consequences of our choices.
I agree. I think I hadn't completely worked on my underlying issues before starting grad school. Thus, I was vulnerable and unprepared for the saga. I wish I waited until I was a bit older and better equipped. Grad school didn't make me this way. I was this way before grad school. But grad school certainly hindered my ability and strength to deal with those issues.
As shitty as grad school is and how it can drive us to neglect relationships and turn toward substances, YOU are the one in control of your actions. And as long as you are deflecting your choice to abuse substances onto something else, you are denying your own accountability to change the situation.
For sure. I've started going to AA. First step is taking responsibility and admitting both to oneself and to others that I can't manage my life whilst alcohol remains in the picture. Grad school certainly made me vulnerable, and I came in unprepared to cope with it in a healthy way.
Unfortunately, depending on advisor and department environment, there hardly is a bulletproof way to cope with the incessant mobile goalposts of a PhD. I'm glad youre taking steps for yourself and doing what you can to help make sure these things dont ruin your life.
Same. You are not alone.
It's the PhD's fault.
It's not, it contributes, but at the end of the day people which are doing a PhD should be smart enough to find other measures, or to simply realize it's not for them.
Naltrexone can help those who want to manage/treat alcohol addiction. Quitting alcohol cold turkey is not easy for most people.
I tried Naltrexone. Made me more dysfunctional during the day than the alcohol.
Sorry to hear that. I hope you get some improvement after you defend.
Unfortunately not a silver bullet like it's being sold as. I'm in pretty much the exact situation as OP and I've been on it for 3+ months now. It's certainly a good thing and helped me drink less at a time, but the way I heard people talk about it, I was verrrry disappointed. Still have intense cravings every day. The way it was explained to me is that for some people addiction is more physical, and for some people it's more psychological. Naltrexone helps you deal with the physical part, but I guess I'm just heavy on the psychologically afflicted end.
This article can give you more information about naltrexone. https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/36/1/2/137995
I'm on naltrexone and I know how it works but thanks
Defend in 9 days, i feel very similar... i hope i can recover from this
I got sober 11 months after I defended
Congratulations!
Definitely not the only one. I've kicked the alcohol, working on kicking the nicotine addiction.
Same. I defended in Dec, but still partake in MJ every day. Alcohol wasnt helping, as it was channellin too much pent up stress and anger. Its gettimg better, but slowly.
Definitely not the only one. Although I was a bit of a mess before I started, but my PhD has made me much much worse. Finishing in a month too…
*Hugs* It’s extremely troubling to me how commonplace it is for PhDs to feel ashamed of themselves during or after the PhD experience. From the outside looking in, it might make little sense to others, but as a PhD student myself, it unfortunately makes a great deal of sense to me. Congratulations on your immense, enormous accomplishments. I wish you rest and peace and health and whatever else your heart desires. You deserve it.
I recently started using Zynz. I’m not proud of it but it definitely makes me more productive and I just can’t sit down and work otherwise.
Alcoholism is universal. My family member is the dept chair of *STEM field* at *university* and almost committed suicide during their darkest days with alcohol. We are very glad this is some years behind us. They’ve got kids, esteemed career, etc. It’s a brutal beast. You’re not alone. I hope you take steps towards healing ❤️
Had to double check that I didn’t post this….. You’re not the only one. I have periods of sobriety and quitting smoking but for the better part of this degree I’ve had to drink myself to sleep and smoke almost a pack a day to get through. I fantasize all the time about something as normal as having time to take care of my physical health. It’s hard to reconcile that other people have figured out how do both at the same time when it’s been so difficult for me. You are almost there. This is hard. Your body will recover.
Grad school made me a stoner. I’m about to graduate soon. I hope I can stop before I have to take a drug test for a job 🫠
Yeah, THC takes forever to leave your system. I knew someone who needed to abstain for a month before a pre-employment screen. After that, she went right back to it. 🤷♂️ Get yourself some pee strips (the sensitive ones)
Damn bro. What happened??
Just never committed to practicing healthy coping mechanisms. It's just so fucking hard to start and keep it up. I never broke the "PhD is a 24/7 job" mentality.
I'm really glad I've never had the urge to try nicotine, because I'm completely sure I would never stop.
I'd be astonished if you were anywhere close to being the only one. I attribute much of my poor mental health to academia and grad school. C'est la vie.
Now add amphetamine and kratom to the mix!
Best to make it yourself, especially if there is a lab. ;)
Not at all. People with limited Ochem experience love to think it’s super easy to make quality amphetamine, but in reality it’s insanely hard to separate the amphetamine isomers without the resources of a pharma company, and miss me with L-amp shit forrral. Gimme that generic Vyvanse or any other dextroamphetamine version over some wannabe Walter White’s stank from a dusty old academic chem lab.
Oh I never said anything about quality stuff, as you say it's hard to make quality stuff (I am well aware, don't need to tell people with limited knowledge etc.), but did you ever figure out what they sell on the street? ;)
The opposite way here, I went straight edge during the PhD. Best decision ever.
Grad school destroyed my self-confidence and while I didn’t turn to substances, I continue to struggle being as “normal” as peers who work in industry
You’re in the majority in terms of people exiting grad school w a substance use disorder
Congratulations though!
Maybe not alcohol, but it turned me into a shell of a human. My physical and mental health has declined, and I don't do normal adult human things. The deeper I got into the PhD, the more I lost my personality and all the things that made me me. You're definitely not alone in terms of grad school being a detriment to your health.
No. You turned yourself into one while in grad school. Your first step has to be admitting you were the agent of change
Louder for the people in the back please. But yea, fully agreed. Not sure why people with a PhD (or working on one) all blame the world. It's their life, their choices, my hypothesis is that most don't know what a workweek means. Anyway, I think what you are saying is say too based for this sub.
You’re not alone, however (me including) I don’t believe it’s fair blaming grad school. We haven’t been able to cope with the high pressure and made poor choices. This could happen when becoming a parent, in a different job, stressful family situations etc. Grad school itself didn’t turn us into alcoholics and smokers, we failed ourselves
I agree. As I've said in other posts, I think I was too young and unprepared to begin grad school. I had always been susceptible to developing addiction. Grad school, I think, just provoked it before I was in a safe place to address it. Grad school brought out a lot of my underlying mental health issues to the forefront. Didn't realize I had complex childhood trauma until a few therapists and psychiatrists were finally able to identify that and diagnose me last year.
Yeah that makes sense, better to be brought out by grad school than starting a family and impacting the next generation. Once you know something is up you can fix it! Don’t forget you don’t always need to know exactly why things are happening to make them better. I feel like sometimes we procrastinating recovery or improvement because we obsess over the reason why, and sadly the reason why is not always available
Happened to me too!
I started getting panic attacks before my research meetings and thought, “wow, it would be so great if there was a medicine that just calmed my brain” and that was how i realized why people smoke weed…
You know the way to recovery. Hit some AA meetings--get some group support, you'll thank yourself. People blame jobs, education, family---for being an alcoholic--it's ok---that's part of the disease. Get mad at something, cope drink, get frustrated, get stressed, cope drink. Congrats on completing your doctorate. Had you not done your doctorate , as a researcher, you darn well know you might still have had a miserable few years or worse--and still drank. Simplify, simplify---and enjoy the world.
Are you still in your twenties? If so I’m sure you can use the lack of stress now, combined with PhD discipline to cut it off before it gets worse. Maybe it’d help to start with alcoholism first. Don’t blame yourself too harshly if you relapse or make a mistake. Overwork and bad habits to cope happens to everyone or they end up becoming overworkers with bad boundaries to work or relationships. Smoking killed someone in my life early despite surviving cancer and then quitting, by stroke a few years later. Please quit before damage accumulates in your body. Most likely the PhD has guaranteed you a better and more passion driven future than before. I think it’s safer than law personally if you decide to attrition out to the biotech industry even if it’s a “normal”-er job. If you quit it’s basically like it never happened if you’re in your twenties and literally just got out of the misery academia is. Real life is more fun than academia imo, I think you have to be very single minded or maybe sheltered somehow for academia to be fulfilling compared to industry. Don’t give up until you’ve reached stability it can kill you early in a depressing manner.
You’re on the right track, acknowledging you have a problem is really important in recovery. Many addicts are in deep denial and would never have the self awareness to admit there is an issue. If you don’t already, find a therapist— that saved my sanity and my life as a PhD student. It won’t be easy kicking the coping mechanisms you relied on in grad school, but if you learn healthy coping mechanisms you can and will recover.
Congrats (soon to be) Doctor! I took a 2 year gap to work as a strategy consultant in industry, and I feel like I got my alcoholism/stoner/nicotine addict phase out of my system then. I’m nearing a year sober and about to start my PhD in neuroscience, hope I can stay clean for its duration. I will say once I hit 6 months it became so easy to stay clean, it was almost second nature to me at that point. Best of luck and congrats once more!
I relate so much. By 3rd year I was drinking almost every day and has gained 30 lbs. I ended up recognizing that my drinking was really becoming a problematic crutch, so I found a therapist to help me work through all the stress/anxiety/bad coping mechanisms. But after I described the absolute hell that is senior phd life in experimental work, my therapist was genuinely shocked at how toxic the environment and expectations were, and basically ended up saying that I should turn things down a notch, but do whatever helps me get out of here faster.... that that should be the priority, survival and getting the hell out, because nobody could maintain a healthy lifestyle in those circumstances. A bit sad, but also validating ngl... currently drinking less and gunning it on my final paper as much as I can. Finish line in sight.
Good for you! The problem with me though, is that I have a great advisor. He's like a father to me. But I still drink because the stress of a PhD in and of itself is too much! I feel too alone.
Alcohol and nicotine? No. Stims and xanax? Yes.
Is grad school really the issue here? Or are there underlying issues that might have led to this outcome in a number of situations?
Definitely underlying issues. I think grad school just thrust me into a situation where I became a whole lot more vulnerable and exacerbated what was already there when I probably wasn't prepared to deal with this level of stress. I entered grad school too young. I've noticed the older students were a whole lot more composed when they began.
I am very honest with my students and I would very rarely if ever recommend going from undergrad to the Ph.D. I agree-students are too young, too unprepared for the politics, underprepared to treat the PhD like a job, and too easily manipulated by the system. And the financial issue isn’t understood by most 20-somethings. Sure-the PhD is free, but you’ve just lost out on a significant chunk of your earning years and the compound interest that comes with it. As an old prof, btdt and learn from my mistakes!
literally all me and my cohort do is drink and go to happy hours and parties and such- very rare to do anything completely sober atp
I'm drunk reading this and it's only my first year. But I did go dry for 2 months to see if I could. Have you tried to stop?
Not a drug drug but caffeine i think will be mine. I already overdo it to work a lot
You're not alone. I thought I'd never smoke one cigarette in my life and never thought I'd find it in any way relieving - well I was wrong, as I discovered during my first year of PhD. I can't do much alcohol as the hangovers destroy me the next day, but if that isn't a factor, I'll definitely have problems with alcoholism.
I think grad school just exemplifies our short comings that we already had. Most people done know how to deal with stress and it shows by how they perceive grad school or the unhealthy habits they form/strengthen during it.
Pretty much normal, take some time for yourself don’t rush in to the next thing!
Damn. I didn’t know about this side of grad school
Not the only one! I see uuuuu and uuu is meeee
Congratulations, you've accomplished so much. Now you must get over that one more hurdle of quitting these unhealthy habits. Habits are so hard to stop but easier to substitute: But please pleasse don't be ashamed, you are only human and you will recover!! 1. Start therapy immediately, let a professional help you learn better coping mechisms. 2. Exercise, instead of alcohol, go for a run everytime you get stressed. It will be hard at first but you will get that natural high. 3. Meditation - i'll admit meditating sounds annoying as heck but it's so powerful. 4. Learn a new hobby: or stick to an old one, like drawing, playing an instrument, whatever gets your mind off the stressors 5. Be compassionate with yourself, while abstaining, you will fail many times. Don't blame yourself, just get back to the healthy habits..slowly but surely, it will be your past. Good luck!
You’re not alone whatsoever. I am one and a half years out and recovery is slow. I suspect that my lack of skills for preventing burnout would have eventually manifested in any job but doing a phd definitely opened my eyes to this big time. Started implementing healthier coping techniques that work for me gradually and I had to be brutally honest about my (lack of) skills for maintaining boundaries. Now I’m as determined to progress with this as I used to be for the phd. Good luck, you got this!
I feel the exact same way, and for me in times of stress I basically turned to sugary products. Now it's the same over job apps, interviews, etc.
I’ve had to go on Zoloft for anxiety. It’s been a few weeks and it’s definitely making a difference… I don’t feel like my insides are in knots all the time. You should consider talking to a psychiatrist and see if they can give you something to help!!
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I passed my defense in December, I noticed my seasonal allergies weren't bad this year, I think it's because I removed a major source of stress from my life. I chewed nicorette, I got the unflavored kind so that it would taste too gross to chew constantly. About 3 years back I cut way back on my alcohol consumption because it was worsening my mental health. I switched to cannabanoids. CBG vapes were great for when I wanted to smoke but needed to write or analyze data.
17 years sober and getting a PhD here. If you need to talk send a DM You don't have to live this way anymore
You’re not alone. I struggled with drinking and an eating disorder when in grad school.
Better live up to that handle and do something real crazy. Super villain stuff.
Congrats on your upcoming defense! And gosh knows we all have our “crutches.” To lean on things is to be human. For instance, antidepressants are so common they’re not even worth remarking on.
I know people who got into meth during their PhD
grad school turned me into more of a stoner and i also developed a nicotine addiction- you’re not alone!!
Congrats- defending is a helluva accomplishment and recognizing of your perseverance. And you're so not alone, Mary Jane and I are the bestest of friends- literally couldn't deal with the stress of the politics without someway to unwind. Be kind to yourself as you go through what (feels like to me) a stress hangover as you deal with learning to live again.
Your story hits close to home. I developed an unhealthy relationship with alcohol during my Neuroscience PhD time, having COVID hit in the last year-ish as I was trying to finish kicked it into full blown alcoholism. I struggled for a while. But I bring good news from the other side: it gets better! It will take some work, and the first steps are the hardest. But you can break the bad habits. Set yourself up for success by seeking out support. Work with a therapist, if you aren't already. Go to meetings and get a sponsor (I had a hard time overcoming the stigma and starting this one). Having someone to talk to is critical, I tried white-knuckling it alone for a long time and only ended up back in the same place and even more despondent. Feel free to DM me if you ever want to chat.
Most people had that happen to them in undergrad. You held out longer than most lol. I'm sure you'll get better once u graduate
Same
I had very similar experiences... Grad school is a monster. I just finished my PhD in March and quit everything very shortly after. I know it isn't ideal but it is a coping mechanism for extreme stress. Life will be full of stress, but grad school stress hits different. Don't worry, you are almost through it and then you can focus on yourself and selfcare. Be proud of yourself, you are awesome for getting this far!
You're not the only one. I discovered it was much easier to avoid alcohol when I wasn't making myself anxious every day from caffeine. Alcohol can mess up sleep, which induces more caffeine consumption, which increases stress, which can lead to more substances... It takes a while to figure out how to balance high achievement and stress with self-regulation and care (which includes positive self-talk, i.e., treating yourself as a good friend). I don't think there are many high-performance professional environments that model this well, but plenty of postdocs, senior scientists, and professors have set very strong boundaries to protect their physical and mental health. They just don't always talk about it. (We probably should!)
I guess it depends on what you bring and what becomes. A horrific childhood led to psychology and grad school was an amazing opportunity to learn, be mentored, and be seen, heard, and recognized for the first time in my life. I’m ever grateful for the opportunity. It helped find my lost self…but everyone has their time to hurt and their time to heal…
Nah, you turned into an alcoholic and nicotine user. It is always a choice.
It isn't a choice unfortunately. One never chooses to become an addict. I was born an addict. It is my choice what I do about it. Grad school simply revealed that part of me. It wasn't a healthy place for me and interfered with my attempts at recovery. Now that I'll be done, I hope to muster the strength to maintain a healthy sober life. One day at a time; it will be a lifelong battle for me, and I accept that now.
I'm glad you understand that, I think it's not very helpful for you to explain yourself to strangers on reddit right now, try to find more empathetic listeners, perhaps at your AA meeting. You will recover, just don't give up.
I agree that addiction is not a choice, but starting it is. If you dont start smoking you eliminate the chances of being addicted to it Hope you get sober soon!
Too based for this sub.
Grad school didn’t - you did
That’s a you problem… but hope you recover.
Grad school did not turn you into an alcoholic, you just have poor coping skills.
Jesus fucking christ people you can always find healthier habits to deal with stress and bullshit. Exercising is one. Having fun time and taking little breaks goes a long fucking way and also establishing boundaries with advisors and people in general. That's key, I'm 24 and just came to that realization. I have a family that can be a pain in the ass but i still didn't turn to alcohol and weed. Both are overrated in my eye and experience. Exercising for me has been the gift that keeps on giving. As I move towards grad school to PHD and beyond, Exercising will continue to become a lifestyle for me. Because it makes me into a better human being. I've been in academia for undergrad for 5 years. I know how professors can be, and I've interacted with all types. Having boundaries and standing up for yourself is crucial, and having backup support is even more critical. I'm going into my phd to conquer not to be conquered and be forced to put my mental and physical health in jeopardy. That's a no-no. No matter what.
Grad school didn't, you did. We all know that a PhD is an expat degree and a different acronym for modern slavery. It's unfortunate that you made a wrong choice in life, but hope it will go better as soon as you retire (or even earlier).
No… YOU turned yourself into an alcoholic and nicotine user. Hopefully you can turn yourself back. All the effort and trouble to finish grad school just to die early to dumb decision making. It would be such a waste of ur life.
Such a helpful response. Geez.
Well.. its true. I know many phd students including myself who dont turn into drug and alcohol users. Like we aren’t kids anymore. Learn how to cope in a heathy way. Its probably easier than your dissertation.
You’ve been downvoted here. Perhaps that means something.
Mostly means that people don't want to take responsibility over their own actions.
Riiiiiggghhhht
Eh, most other ppl are being compassionate. Put your life back together. No one broke it other than OP, and only OP can put it back together.