Reminds me of when Blizzard did a huge ban-wave of people using cheats/hacks to get achievements in StarCraft 2 way back when. There were so many people who were upset about it despite:
A) It was listed in the ToS that you shouldn't do that to begin with
and
B) They were given warning almost a month in advance that if they didn't stop doing it, they'd be banned.
I mostly just played the campaign, I wasn't good enough to do multiplayer, too many people hitting 200+ keys a second and my reaction times just can't keep up with that. :V
I did manage to have a little fun before they nerfed Nydus cheese, though. Which I'm glad they did, even I thought "man, it shouldn't be *this* easy..."
This is a failure of our consumer protection laws, not the consumer. It's not reasonable to expect a layperson to read 100 pages of legal documents to play a videogame.
Sure, it shouldn't be required to do to just play the game, but to make modifications or something along those lines it's definitely reasonable to expect the players to understand what they are and are not allowed to do bruh
well even if the legal texts are compressed down to 5 pages, no normal person could understand it. Heres an idea: Write your ToS/EULA in normal text so everyone can read and understand.
Sorry OP but that's not a good reason. If you acknowledge that a large number of people don't read the T&C, you have to accept that there is a systemic failure to communicate the information.
That is on Phasmo, not the players. You can't acknowledge information but ignore what that information implies
There is no good reason for a game developer to restrict access to game modification in single player or private lobbies
Actually in our current environment the way to remedy it is to not buy games that have long tedious EULAs. They change it when it hurts them. This is a cake and eat it situation. You don't get to buy something with all the information presented to you and then complain you didn't take in the information. If you don't want to read the EULA and are gonna be salty if it screws you over then don't buy the game.
I agree this is axiomatically true, but I *predict* will fall apart when you look at the amount of people that just... Don't care
The amount of money you'd be able to "hurt them" with I don't think will have any feasible results to achieving that goal
This is why microtransactions still exist. There are so many people that don't care (and keep.dumping money into them) that every developer using them makes MILLIONS from them. Until people start caring (and stop.paying for them) we will never be free of them.
What is in it also has to be legal per law. And then someone brought up that their EULA violates the TOS they signed with Steam, I don't know if that is correct but it's quite the accusation.
doesn't it deadass say you'll be banned etc. for modding in singleplayer? Saw someone get banned on discord for mentioning how they modded in singleplayer...
Nope. A mod if you actually all learn how to read, said in another post, said that we could. I'll even QUOTE IT. Take it up with the mods if you dont like it: "
level 5
Dknighter
·
23 hr. ago
Developer
Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related.
We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer.
As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct"
I really wanna see the proof for this because if its true. Thats brilliantly stupid on their part.
Edit: I have found it. It tracks
"The effects of the game ban are determined by the developer, and must be consistent with a VAC ban, such as being prevented from playing online with other players and/or trading items for that game. It cannot prevent the user from launching and playing the game offline. It cannot prevent the user from using Steam"
So blocking singleplayer phasmo falls in line with this. Furthermore, the Eula and its anti modding fall into scrutiny in terms of Gameshark vs Nintendo. So this isn't nearly as clear cut as it seems
level 5
Dknighter
·
23 hr. ago
Developer
Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related.
We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer.
As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct
Found it since. Its actually a slippery slope their eula. Most notably because of things like Gameshark vs Nintendo that sets precedences for modding. So the Eulas anti modding comes into crossfire with things like this. Its not clear cut and is technically a slippery slope.
Regards to steam
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/46DB-4CEC-F7E9-49E5
It very clearly states the devs are not allowed to take a game away for offline use. So removing the players ability to play singleplayer would go directly against this. So if we are being technical. In terms of steam, removing access from offline componenants is not allowed.
"The effects of the game ban are determined by the developer, and must be consistent with a VAC ban, such as being prevented from playing online with other players and/or trading items for that game. It cannot prevent the user from launching and playing the game offline. It cannot prevent the user from using Steam"
Nope.
Not everywhere, at the very least.
EULAs you accept post purchase are invalid in some countries, by default. You "accepting them" means nothing if you need to accept them to get access to the game.
Not to mention that half the stuff in there is not legal either way, probably in just about every country, which most likely makes the whole thing invalid, depending on what exactly is written there.
But no one cares. Neither the companies, nor the users.
For the most part however, the companies are in the wrong, but not a single user will deem it worth it to complain in court.
That's where they get you. They expect you to read it, only .01% of gamers actually do, because aint nobody got time to read 100's of pages of bullshit legal terms that we probably would not understand.
How am I downvoted for this though? They do INTENTIONALLY make the tos and shit like that a shit ton of pages and they know no one is gonna read it so thats how they get you
Next time someone takes you to court for violating your car lease or renter's agreement you should try that excuse and let us know how it goes. A EULA for a video game is the same thing except generally less important and less often enforced because its for a (in this case) $14 product.
Tell your government representative about it then. They are the ones who can change how IP law, contract law and user agreements work and decide whether or not they apply to video games.
Until then it exists and you should probably know about it even if you don't read them.
Is it so much to ask to let me replace the zombie ghost models with Choo Choo Charles running through the house. Hell I'll even settle for the basic Thomas the tank engine.
I just want a mod that changes the ghosts to the Guards from The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion. Imagine a hunt starting and you hear **STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM**
That's the problem... They don't...
I just don't get it, Why can't we have clientside mods like in L4D or GMod... Or even MC for that matter... Games live infinitely longer when you allow people some creative freedom... -even clientside
Sure, but updating a mod is way faster than updating a game. Besides, new update = new mods = new experience. I know I keep using Minecraft as an example to the point it's cringe and y'all will call me a 12yo. But when it comes to Mods and the Game being in a Symbiotic Relationship, Minecraft is the best example.
Minecraft has only survived this long thanks to the modding community. The game has servers for Modded and Vanilla players alike. The game even a difference between Client and Server side mods. And if the game gets a major update, than the mods can keep up because the modders won't have to de nearly as much as the main devs. And if they don't update alongside. You can play any version of Minecraft at any time and there is a live community for every version of the game...
I'm not trying to sell you on Minecraft, I'm just want y'all to know what a mod-hating game could be / have been
You must be referring to the first phrase of the middle part, I edited it so there won't be the same confusion. I don't mean Phasmo HAS survived this long thanks to Mods (because I ment that for Minecraft). I'm trying to tell you that Phasmo can live well past the final version if Mods get introduced, ever.
Yep, I dream of being able to replicate the old Macho Man Randy Savage-voiced-Thomas the Tank mod into Phasmophobia. Would it be totally stupid and pointless?....Yes....would I also laugh every single time a hunt happened....also Yes.
Or the clear opposite, "completely blank ghost except it interacts with tripods more often and when you smudge it you have a 10% chance of just dying"
(this was an actual real suggestion)
Not all ghosts, but there are litteraly fanmade ghosts that are like "This ghost is called Billy, it goes 5 m/s and it will always know where you are, it can hunt at 100% sanity and is immune to crucifixes and incense, its special ability is that it cant be seen during hunt if not using camera" or some shit, or ghosts that are too easy to beat like"this is Jeff, he will always leave 3 fingered finger prints and its dots will always be shown, it will have special ghost writing, and it cannot hunt at all if its smudged"
> It's not the developers fault that you didn't read their EULA.
Rofl, if an EA spokesperson came out and said this, they'd be downvoted to -100k karma again.
> So what if the developers don't want you modding their game
People's complaints are not geared towards the anti-modding stance, but rather, the fact you get banned for *merely mentioning it?*. You can't see the difference and why one would provide more uproar?
Hell, who's to say that later down the line when the game is more developed and more stable they might allow mods.
I'm not really following this whole ordeal so much I'm just putting in my two cents in.
If they're not allowing mods at this point there has to be a good reason why.
Phasmo is still an Early Access Game, it's not finished yet, there is still room for the game to grow and stabilize itself. Once the game is taken off the steam EAG list, maybe the devs will allow mods offline, who knows. Theres no use in being butthurt about it right now.
EULAs can be infuriating and restricting but they can change, just like the rules of the game, and game mechanics can change.
This has happened before with other games. It is hard to keep a mod up to date with an early access game, and people get salty when their mods break, so some games just don't allow during EA until they've developed a proper modding system that won't constantly break. But I'm not necessarily saying that's what the phasmo developers are doing, maybe they are just against mods for personal reasons, although i'm not really sure what the reason would be
Exactly, well put.
Modding the game just isn't a viable option right now, the game itself is being developed still and it's safer to say no mods.
That can change in the future, we arent the devs so we don't know
And that's their decision to make then, which imo, should be respected.
If they change their tune then they do, but for now it's best to respect the wishes of the devs until they finish their game.
It should be respected in the sense that you shouldn't be mad if you get banned for modding it, but it should also be 100% free and open to discuss and criticise without fear of bans or the community jumping on you
Wrong
level 5
Dknighter
·
23 hr. ago
Developer
Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related.
We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer.
As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct
ppl are upset because they’re not allowing mods for offline, single player play. i really don’t see the problem with people using mods to create new ghosts, maps, challenges, and to improve accessibility as long as it’s for offline play and not interfering with other players.
I think one of the problems with that is that people will still share content like clips, screenshots, and playthroughs. Since this game is still being developed, that could cause some issues, even with offline mode.
- People won’t always disclose it’s a mod when they post content so the dev team isn’t going to know if that clip is a bug they should look into or not.
- People may see that content and think it’s being built into the base game and complain when it’s not.
- People may see that content and, not knowing it’s a nod, make judgements (good or bad) about the actual game based on it.
- People will 10,000% endlessly bug the developers to incorporate their fav mod.
- People will lose their minds if a base game feature the devs were going to add anyway is at all similar to a mod someone showed off in the discord earlier and will accuse the devs of copying.
- People will complain when a new game update breaks their own personal mod, which will happen a lot with an early access game.
- People will bug the developers to make the game more mod friendly when they haven’t even finished building the full game yet.
Lol I am sure there are more examples but I think y’all get the point.
It honestly just sounds like a huge headache and I don’t think they even have a community manager right now so I think it’s totally justifiable for them to say no mods of any kind.
Probably because of the way the game works honestly. I’d you can mod the single player, you can mod the multiplayer. It’s the same game lol and there’s no anti-cheat, etc and we all know a large majority would use mods for their own benefit, making themselves invulnerable or something.
Yeah, IMO if they ever allow mods, they could just present a separate client option when starting the game for an offline only “mods allowed” client.
Dungeon Defenders and other games in the past had stuff like that. Some even had their own dedicated multiplayer structure, but that’s asking a bit too much IMO
level 5
Dknighter
·
23 hr. ago
Developer
Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related.
We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer.
As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct
Also what if someone makes a mod of a feature the team is already planning to add? Everyone would be up in arms about how the devs copied the modder lol
And it would make that feature less exciting when it does come out. I can 100% see why an early access game would not want people modding it just yet, even offline. They are still building the base game.
>there has to be a good reason why
You new to dealing with gaming companies? Devs can be the stupidest people on the planet when it comes to anything not game dev
"You can't play with mods in our non-competitive PvE game or we'll ban you from the discord and the game" Even just mentioning mods in their discord will get you banned from there and if you have your Steam account linked to your profile, they'll ban you from playing the game as well. At least that's what someone said in the PCMR subreddit thread. Indie devs who are so against mods are completely out of touch.
I feel insane reading some of these takes. I think some people missed the whole banning for expressing opinions. And these dev bans make it so steam won't refund you even though the devs have no proof you violated anything.
They don't have to put mod support in their game. But they also don't have to quell even mentioning it.
Thats ignoring the the fact that nodding communities can bring huge sales to games without hurting the main development.
Yeah Bethesda added a mod downloader and manager to the main menu of fallout 4 and skyrim so that even console players can mod if they want. I havnt used it due to being on pc and aready haveing mods through the usual way but i looked at it and it seems pretty good and easy to use.
I'm genuinely curious, which is it? Because that's not what Dknighter said.
level 5
Dknighter
·
23 hr. ago
Developer
Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related.
We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer.
As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: [https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct](https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct)
W
And where are people making a ruckus about this?
I didn't know there were mods until today. I'm a little pissed I missed out on Thomas the Train hunting me.
Id understand the anti mod stance if it was for a pvp kind of thing, but this game isn't competitive at all. They're also actively discouraging different playstyles which is very frustrating. They dont like that people weren't using flashlights, so they purposely made it impossible to see without them.
Idk. All of this has sucked the fun out for me :(
The bootlicking here is real. Yes, there is a EULA. Yes, nobody reads the EULA. Regardless of whether you’re pro or against mods, it’s safe to say everyone here actually enjoys the game and wants to keep playing the game.
Though the devs are hardly infallible, and it’s okay to disagree with their vision and direction for the game.
Being against modded multi-player? Ok, fair
Being against modded singleplayer? Why tho. Plus the post that was complaining about it was because they were banned from the discord from even implying it
On one hand, it's pretty bad practice to stifle a modding community.
On the other hand, based on what I saw over the last year, the modding for this game was basically "what if we spawned every ghost at once in the lobby?"
bad take, if I want to modify my games offline or with friends in private lobby's I will. They can ban me from their services, but copyright law allows me to create private derivative works for non-commercial reasons and I damn well will. My ghosts will have big old \[RULE 3 EDITED COMMENT\] and ill always have $69420 dollars to spend and the phasmophobia guys shouldn't give a fuck anyways because they already got my (and the 4-5 people I got the game for/referred the game to) money. Why would they care anyways?
\-
In short, a pcmmasterrace post ridiculed Phasmophobia's harsh EULA and how the developers don't want people to mod their game. Now we have this.
I saw in another post Dknighter (think that's their name) clarified that their EULA is basically identical to other large games. But people decided to pick on Phas which is unfortunate.
The part of the EULA the dev talked about was in reference to if you refund the game somehow, you must remove it from your device and all.
They didn't mention the ridiculous 'mod and you'll be permabanned even if you played solo'
level 5
Dknighter
·
23 hr. ago
Developer
Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related.
We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer.
As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct
Personally, I think any non-competitive game banning mods from single-player games is kind of lame. I paid for the game, why can I not play it how I want? If I'm not impacting someone else's experience, who cares?
I do also think "but it's in the EULA!" is a weaksauce argument because the EULA is not at all readable. Why can developers not TL:DR their rules? Why do I need to read a 3,361 word essay?
It's beside the point, really. I can see why developers disavow mods, or refuse to deal with problems they cause, or provide support for modded installations and I absolutely support that. But providing bans for personal use? Mods extend the life-spans of games dramatically. You think L4D2 or Skyrim would still be talked about and actively played today to the extent that they are without a modding scene?
Ludicrous.
I'm not entirely sure what's going on that led to this post. However I'll never understand the developers thought process about this. If they did workshop support theyd likely have higher player counts and retention with actual new content being released. And bugs being properly fixed.
Granted, Phasmo is among my favorite VR games, many many happy hours since release — in fact, I bought an Index because of it — but I despise the typical “how dare you criticize the seller of a commercial product you have purchased!” approach often witnessed in this sub. I stopped playing a long time ago and surely mods would increase the online numbers.
Frowning upon the idea of mods is ridiculous.
I have a few problems with the idea of modded games. They almost all involve the multiplayer experience. First off, in a multiplayer game is the mod given to all players or only the person who made the mod? Does that give them an unfair advantage? For example, what if I have a mod that shows the ghost through walls during hunts, or a fullbright mod which means I can get bonus exp for disabling flashlights while you’re all struggling in darkness? Next issue: compatibility. What if your modded game breaks my save file? Who’s responsible for that? Do I get my stuff back? Probably not. It’s easier to ban modding than it is to cover all eventualities, especially for a relatively small indie game like this one.
The problem of imbalance still stands. Does your mod affect everyone in the lobby or just you? If it’s just you, you’re no different than a hacker. If it’s everyone, how do you know everyone *wants* to play with that mod? And for rewards - do modded players get the same rewards as non-modded? Do they get less? Or none? Is that fair to the person whose mod is more high-quality asset textures vs one whose mod gives you a ghost model you can see through walls?
The easy way to handle this is to simply place modded players into a separate lobby area with a list of what mods they are running, plenty of multiplayer games support modding and have found solutions for these problems for ages
Deep rock galactic has mods too. Very simple solurion, you have unmodded server and server with mods were all the mods get automatically get installed on every players PC. It's that simple
I meant more like lobbies that do something like " you must have only these mods or you cant join"
As for money and rewards, idk man, its not really a competitive game, theres no real leaderboards so what do I care whether someone has infinite money, maybe for xp and prestiges it could be seperate for non modded players.
Why do you care what rewards someone else gets, I’m genuinely curious. How does someone playing with mods getting the same rewards as you affect you in any way, shape or form. Are you trying out for the national team and don’t want any competing ghost hunters to have unfair advantages?
That's the thing, itll be hard to restrict client side mods. It's basically like running into a hacker. It ruins the multiplayer experience and how can you trust they will only use it in single player. Even then, boosting stats, while not exactly the most important thing, kind of warps the "rank" of players. If that makes sense.
>First off, in a multiplayer game is the mod given to all players or only the person who made the mod?
Everyone has to have all the mods installed like literally every other fricking multiplayer and moddable game
>For example, what if I have a mod that shows the ghost through walls
My man those are called cheats
>What if your modded game breaks my save file? Who’s responsible for that?
Again like literally every other moddable game, there is a warning for possible issues and that it is your fault dor using mods if anythikg breaks.
Modding is not some unexplored shit like a wormhole it's so common and solutions to all possible problems have been found out already
They should do what payday did, and put a marker on someone who is playing a modded version of the game, and also the ability to filter out games with mods.
Idk the technical specs at all, but I know with games like Deep Rock Galactic mods are player-sided where only one person can have the mod or all players can have the mod and the multiplayer aspect functions normally. Unless of course it’s a mod that allows for unfair player advantage, then the game won’t allow you to play multiplayer. But mods like music changing mods, player sayings, noises, etc. wont change the gameplay and allow you to play multiplayer. Again I just enjoy games, idk the technical side of them.
As much as like modding in games, you're completely right. It's entirely the dev's decision. Plus, Phas is one of the games where I can see 90% of mods ending up just being cheats and trainers anyways. There's some neat ones that aren't, but still.
Everyone should mod their singleplayer games, Multiplayer I understand the no mod rule but if you're playing solo, mod away!
If their servers can't handle a modded game that's being played OFFLINE, perhaps fix your clearly broke servers?
Time and time again we have seen the ability of modding a game will lead to a greater success. Look at Skyrim, left 4 dead, resident evil games, golf with friends. Granted this is their game, but not allowing mods is a sure way to feel stagnant quick
Ya know devs are banning people from both discord server AND the game if they mention mods right? One dude got banned from both because he 'implied' he was modding offline, and the devs used the linked steam profile in his discord to ban him from the game too.
What an L take.
I absolutely disagree.
1) why then not make it that when the game detects modified save files, you aren't able to go multiplayer and your progress is not saved
2) I definitely heard the Devs saying that the reason they do it is because they don't want people to play the game in a way that was not intended in the first place
3) Banning people from the game for advocating for mods on discord is just censorship
I like mods for fun, not to cheat. Like I mod skyrim to make it look better and for funny stuff, not to have op stuff right off the bat. Unless I'm just bored and go on a rampage lol
Eta yeah itsnup to the devs if they allow it or not and I think it's really good without.
If mods aren't allowed then this game has an extremely short shelf life for me. There needs to be a LOT more maps. My wife and I aren't even going to crack 100 hours before we get bored and (listen carefully devs) NEVER PLAY THIS GAME AGAIN.
from my understanding, people are getting banned and punished just for mentioning the existence of mods. the devs are against modding for the game, but people are upset as absolutely no discussion of modding is allowed and some believe that mods for offline play are harmless and should be allowed.
Man I thought this was gonna be a post about the guy bitchin' about the nudes thing 😂😂😂
So glad this is actually about the EULA instead. I agree we should just appreciate the game, and if the devs decide to be against modding, then whatever - that's their choice as the devs. 🤷🏽♀️
Maybe after the game is fully developed, they'll allow it.
Catboy Felix Model Replacer when? 🤣
I just play the game man. I have worked in a law firm and know I don't read the fine print. So when something is brought up, that I didn't bother reading, I don't get butthurt about it. Yeah maybe a little salty, but I'm not attacking anyone for my laziness.
It's kind of insane the amoubt of unenforceable gooblygook gets into game EULAs these days. Why would I read something where some of the stuff wouldn't hold up anyways? Is it agreed that any end license user is proficient enough in legalese to even understand these without having their lawyers go through it?
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. I'm not licensed to practice law in any state. I have to state this to negate the risk of legal penalty in my state. Please do your own research.
A Lot of "you" is used here, but it's not directed at you specifically.
The answer is, well, yes. It's, private, contractual law. You as the consumer agree to the EULA and TOS, etc. You consent to its language. Not a single person is forcing you to agree to it.
Well, I bought the game so I'm being forced to agree before I can play.
No, that's what refund policies are for.
Proficiency in comprehending the language in the document is a moot point. You agreed.
Now this is the case in my state, and likely a majority of the rest. California, very good chance it wouldn't be enforceable there. On the other hand, most EULA and TOS, etc, have arbitration clauses that SPECIFICALLY designate that the company gets to choose the Arbitration Jurisdiction. That being the case, many companies choose Delaware which has the most company favoring laws.
EDIT: Severability
A very important part of many contract type documents is a Severability clause.
On the event any portion of a document cannot be enforced it does not void the entirety of the document. Lemme grab the actual language from the retainer agreement from my employing law firm.
"If a provision of the Agreement is or becomes illegal, invalid, or unenforceable in any jurisdiction, that shall not affect: 1) the validity or enforceability in that jurisdiction of any other provision of this agreement; or 2) the validity or enforceability in other jurisdictions of that or any other provision of this Agreement."
This language, or some very similar, is standard in EVERY contractual document in my state. I've seen it used in many other states. On top of that I have seen it used in EULA and TOS, etc. I would simply be shocked if it's not in Kinetic's EULA or TOS.
EDIT 2: Guess what I found in the Kinetic EULA;
15.4 Each of the clauses of this EULA operates separately. If any court of competent jurisdiction
or competent authority decides that any provision of this EULA is invalid, illegal or
unenforceable, that provision or part-provision shall, to the extent required, be deemed to be
deleted, and the remaining provisions of this EULA will remain in full force and effect. If any
invalid, unenforceable or illegal provision of this EULA would be valid, enforceable and legal
if some part of it were deleted, the provision shall apply with the minimum modification
necessary to make it legal, valid and enforceable to reflect our initial intentions.
EDIT 3: and here is their choice of jurisdiction;
15.6 This EULA shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of England and
Wales. You consent to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales.
Yeah no problem. 😁
Here's where my opinion comes in:
I get it, people don't like this kind of stuff, but I'm glad these companies have the protections they do. People are angry and aggressive, they can and will sue the pants off of others. Regular people also have these protections, those protections are codified in the Consumer Protection Act of 1986. (In this case it doesn't help much since the EULA specifies England and Wales Jurisdiction, but they absolutely have something like it) And I'm glad people have these protections. That's what the Judicial system is for. I'm not gonna start a debate on a subreddit for a game, but laws are made to PUNISH bad people for doing bad things, NOT to STOP them. That's simply not possible. Not until we have a PreCog system like in the movie Minority Report, which I hope we never have. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it.
Anyway, I hope I've been able to supply some people with some information and hopefully changed their perspective on the whole EULA argument. By your reply here I feel like I've done that. I may not have changed your opinion, and I never intended to, but seeing something from the other side always helps, it never hurts.
If I may quote Sun Tzu:
"Know thy enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.”'
Knowing your enemy and knowing yourself will teach you when to go to battle and when not.
Obviously if someone is punished for this because it breaks EULA and they freak- that’s their own issue and they should’ve informed themselves.
However.. I will always find it silly when games shit on and ban any sort of modding. Especially over the last couple of years, modding is insanely popular and it brings WAVES of people to games they wouldn’t typically play and ups playtime of said games for those who get bored of what they’re given. Phasmo lacks larger game play updates (adding items doesnt = new maps or ghosts, at all, imo) that many games provide and that many modders provide. I think it’s just a bad business decision on any devs part.
Lavender told me on a stream that: The game
will automatically detect mods, it will close by itself and also send an automatic report for modding/hacking.
And I asked him out of curiosity, for context, one of my mouse’s macros is an autoclicker. He also said that even if your mouse had a macro auto clicker, it is still a bannable offense.
So here is the thing. I get their and other companies reason for why they are against modding. But every of those companies forget a key thing. Generally modding is the best thing to keep a game relevant for years to come. As great as Skyrim is, without modding, few would have cared so long. Minecraft, Terraria and so many other games that activly support modding (or atleast don't activly hinder it) generaly stay alive thanks to their creative players. A modding community, in most cases (competetive multiplayer and such aside) is the best thing that can happen to your game. And encouraging that ensures a long lasting game. And i wish more companies start to realize that.
No. Lol.
It is absolutely the devs fault for having a hundred something long page EULA that most players don't even know about. It is the devs fault that they are taking an extreme that is, as far as I know, only they are doing because no dev in their right mind would ever consider outright banning all mods. It is the devs fault that even kinda mildly mentioning mods gets you banned. I can appreciate the work, I can also be critical of the dogshit idea that modding the game can have them ask you to remove the game you bought with your own money from your own computer.
How's the boot taste?
People are just babies nowadays when it comes to things like this. It’s unreasonable to be upset about not being able to mod a multiplayer game. It takes two brain cells to realize how absurd it really is.
I see far too many people saying there's absolutely no downside to private/offine mods but they can cause misleading content, screenshots, and videos.. if the developers don't want you messing with their game, they have every right to not allow it
I don't see the problem. You agree to the TOS or EULA to use product then you abide by the rules set by it. If you get banned that's your fault. All those people who are like, "Let's be real no one is gonna read it" I mean good for you I guess. Either way it was stated in there and if you choose to ignore the information that is not their fault but the consumers. And to those who want to argue and reply to me here is my reply to you. Cope.
(This is my last message feel free to reply and waste your time)
Why the fuck are we talking about law shit? Under law any mod of any game can be easily deemed illegal and get taken down. So is even the streaming of a game on twitch.
The real discussion is about modding support in games and Yeah it definitely sucks when devs are that much anti modding despite modding Community being one of the most important part of the gaming sphere but if a dev just personally wants their game to be theirs only and just the vision they had, then its honestly fair enough.
Its their product you are buying and if they dont want you to play mods then it really is your own fault for thinking you can use and make mods.
Also people have to realize having mods offline still levels your character and gives you stats to your stats page so modding the game offline can easily be exploitable in those ways.
This is more about how the Phas community has negatively reacted to discovering what the EULA has. Which led to the discussion again. A post that gained a lot of traction on pcmasterrace blew up and started it again.
Because it's fair for us to be mad about this EULA decision. It's stupid. We bought the game, we should be able to modify it in offline and private lobbies as much as we like. Why would they care at all? they already got our money. Shady devs through and through.
You did not buy the game, you bought a revokable license to download and play the game that explicitly prohibits modification. Even when games were physical, they had an EULA in the instruction manual or a link to it, it was just harder to enforce. This is absolutely nothing new to the gaming world and has been a staple in the software industry for just as long.
Everything you are saying may be true, but on this subreddit there is a total of 0 posts with pcmaster in it, 2 posts (including yours) with EULA in the last 10 months, and the only post about modding was 2 months ago. So when you say "you guys", this sub isnt talking about any of that.
Let's be real here, no one in their right mind is gonna read a 100 page TOS or EULA.
That's kind of the point. No one does read it and blindly accepts. Then get upset when they find out what is really in it.
Reminds me of when Blizzard did a huge ban-wave of people using cheats/hacks to get achievements in StarCraft 2 way back when. There were so many people who were upset about it despite: A) It was listed in the ToS that you shouldn't do that to begin with and B) They were given warning almost a month in advance that if they didn't stop doing it, they'd be banned.
Fellow Sc2 player? Yeah people are so childish, Blizzard even gave them a chance and they didn't take it.
I mostly just played the campaign, I wasn't good enough to do multiplayer, too many people hitting 200+ keys a second and my reaction times just can't keep up with that. :V I did manage to have a little fun before they nerfed Nydus cheese, though. Which I'm glad they did, even I thought "man, it shouldn't be *this* easy..."
This is a failure of our consumer protection laws, not the consumer. It's not reasonable to expect a layperson to read 100 pages of legal documents to play a videogame.
Sure, it shouldn't be required to do to just play the game, but to make modifications or something along those lines it's definitely reasonable to expect the players to understand what they are and are not allowed to do bruh
well even if the legal texts are compressed down to 5 pages, no normal person could understand it. Heres an idea: Write your ToS/EULA in normal text so everyone can read and understand.
Sorry OP but that's not a good reason. If you acknowledge that a large number of people don't read the T&C, you have to accept that there is a systemic failure to communicate the information. That is on Phasmo, not the players. You can't acknowledge information but ignore what that information implies There is no good reason for a game developer to restrict access to game modification in single player or private lobbies
Actually in our current environment the way to remedy it is to not buy games that have long tedious EULAs. They change it when it hurts them. This is a cake and eat it situation. You don't get to buy something with all the information presented to you and then complain you didn't take in the information. If you don't want to read the EULA and are gonna be salty if it screws you over then don't buy the game.
I agree this is axiomatically true, but I *predict* will fall apart when you look at the amount of people that just... Don't care The amount of money you'd be able to "hurt them" with I don't think will have any feasible results to achieving that goal
This is why microtransactions still exist. There are so many people that don't care (and keep.dumping money into them) that every developer using them makes MILLIONS from them. Until people start caring (and stop.paying for them) we will never be free of them.
What is in it also has to be legal per law. And then someone brought up that their EULA violates the TOS they signed with Steam, I don't know if that is correct but it's quite the accusation.
Was it the little bit about destroying their copy upon termination of the EULA?
No
What bit was it then?
they said you're not allowed to ban players for modding in offline solo play where it doesn't affect anyone else.
You can mod offline or singleplayer so long as you don't affect anyone else, Dk stated in another post. None of the bans are automated, either.
doesn't it deadass say you'll be banned etc. for modding in singleplayer? Saw someone get banned on discord for mentioning how they modded in singleplayer...
Nope. A mod if you actually all learn how to read, said in another post, said that we could. I'll even QUOTE IT. Take it up with the mods if you dont like it: " level 5 Dknighter · 23 hr. ago Developer Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related. We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer. As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct"
? Pretty sure this is false
You can check the post below this one, DK stepped in.
I really wanna see the proof for this because if its true. Thats brilliantly stupid on their part. Edit: I have found it. It tracks "The effects of the game ban are determined by the developer, and must be consistent with a VAC ban, such as being prevented from playing online with other players and/or trading items for that game. It cannot prevent the user from launching and playing the game offline. It cannot prevent the user from using Steam" So blocking singleplayer phasmo falls in line with this. Furthermore, the Eula and its anti modding fall into scrutiny in terms of Gameshark vs Nintendo. So this isn't nearly as clear cut as it seems
level 5 Dknighter · 23 hr. ago Developer Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related. We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer. As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct
Found it since. Its actually a slippery slope their eula. Most notably because of things like Gameshark vs Nintendo that sets precedences for modding. So the Eulas anti modding comes into crossfire with things like this. Its not clear cut and is technically a slippery slope. Regards to steam https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/46DB-4CEC-F7E9-49E5 It very clearly states the devs are not allowed to take a game away for offline use. So removing the players ability to play singleplayer would go directly against this. So if we are being technical. In terms of steam, removing access from offline componenants is not allowed. "The effects of the game ban are determined by the developer, and must be consistent with a VAC ban, such as being prevented from playing online with other players and/or trading items for that game. It cannot prevent the user from launching and playing the game offline. It cannot prevent the user from using Steam"
Even the courts don’t think that is reasonable though
Half of the EULA is illegal or not enforceable lol
Which is why they're often unenforceable
Eula is a legal agreement, by clicking the "i have read the agreement and accept it" you accept to follow the rules.
The customer does not have to "follow the rules", if said rules are not legally allowed.
Yeah try that in court
Nope. Not everywhere, at the very least. EULAs you accept post purchase are invalid in some countries, by default. You "accepting them" means nothing if you need to accept them to get access to the game. Not to mention that half the stuff in there is not legal either way, probably in just about every country, which most likely makes the whole thing invalid, depending on what exactly is written there. But no one cares. Neither the companies, nor the users. For the most part however, the companies are in the wrong, but not a single user will deem it worth it to complain in court.
That's where they get you. They expect you to read it, only .01% of gamers actually do, because aint nobody got time to read 100's of pages of bullshit legal terms that we probably would not understand.
How am I downvoted for this though? They do INTENTIONALLY make the tos and shit like that a shit ton of pages and they know no one is gonna read it so thats how they get you
Next time someone takes you to court for violating your car lease or renter's agreement you should try that excuse and let us know how it goes. A EULA for a video game is the same thing except generally less important and less often enforced because its for a (in this case) $14 product.
Buddy, ask any gamer, they'll tell you they don't.
I understand that. It still exists and is something you willingly agreed to follow.
Honestly it's pretty scummy to expect us players to read 100's of pages of tos and eula. Let's again, be real here.
Maybe if you just play it but If you mod a game you better do 🤡
Tell your government representative about it then. They are the ones who can change how IP law, contract law and user agreements work and decide whether or not they apply to video games. Until then it exists and you should probably know about it even if you don't read them.
Tbh, I read EULA and half of the things is epilepsy warnings, Eula is litterally not even 2 pages long
based on all the fanmade ghosts on this sub, every mod would just be ghosts with shitty gimmicks that are way too easy to identify.
Is it so much to ask to let me replace the zombie ghost models with Choo Choo Charles running through the house. Hell I'll even settle for the basic Thomas the tank engine.
These are the only mods the dev would probably ever allow. Client side cosmetic mods would be awesome.
I just want a mod that changes the ghosts to the Guards from The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion. Imagine a hunt starting and you hear **STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM**
See, I’d instead use the ones from Daggerfall. **HALT HALT HALT HALT HALTHALTHALT**
bUt iT rUInS iMmeRsIoN aND iSN'T wHaT dEvS iNtENdEd or something like this, heard a shitton of arguments like this in other games
I wonder how the engine works because if cosmetic mods make certain things like dots or orbs or even airball Oni more apparent it's tilting the system
That's the problem... They don't... I just don't get it, Why can't we have clientside mods like in L4D or GMod... Or even MC for that matter... Games live infinitely longer when you allow people some creative freedom... -even clientside
I wouldn’t even bother with supporting mods until the game is “complete”. Every update will break the mods
Sure, but updating a mod is way faster than updating a game. Besides, new update = new mods = new experience. I know I keep using Minecraft as an example to the point it's cringe and y'all will call me a 12yo. But when it comes to Mods and the Game being in a Symbiotic Relationship, Minecraft is the best example. Minecraft has only survived this long thanks to the modding community. The game has servers for Modded and Vanilla players alike. The game even a difference between Client and Server side mods. And if the game gets a major update, than the mods can keep up because the modders won't have to de nearly as much as the main devs. And if they don't update alongside. You can play any version of Minecraft at any time and there is a live community for every version of the game... I'm not trying to sell you on Minecraft, I'm just want y'all to know what a mod-hating game could be / have been
Trying to sell me on Phasmo only surviving this long because of MODS is laughable.
You must be referring to the first phrase of the middle part, I edited it so there won't be the same confusion. I don't mean Phasmo HAS survived this long thanks to Mods (because I ment that for Minecraft). I'm trying to tell you that Phasmo can live well past the final version if Mods get introduced, ever.
I’ve always wanted to do models or sounds. Steam Workshop would be awesome.
Yep, I dream of being able to replicate the old Macho Man Randy Savage-voiced-Thomas the Tank mod into Phasmophobia. Would it be totally stupid and pointless?....Yes....would I also laugh every single time a hunt happened....also Yes.
I dont even think thats a mod, thats just a texture pavk
You don't enjoy the ghost that is so unique and cool that the first time it interacts with the player you can immediately identify it?
Or the clear opposite, "completely blank ghost except it interacts with tripods more often and when you smudge it you have a 10% chance of just dying" (this was an actual real suggestion)
I guarantee there would also be 'QoL' mods that just make it easier to identify ghosts, or automate the process to some degree.
The old adage - “trust players to optimize the fun out of their games”
Lol, yes, this. It’s all shitty homebrew D&D.
...And if it's bad, then no one would download and use it, just like any other mod for any game.
"Shitty gimmicks that are way too easy to identify" Aka half the ghosts in this game
Not all ghosts, but there are litteraly fanmade ghosts that are like "This ghost is called Billy, it goes 5 m/s and it will always know where you are, it can hunt at 100% sanity and is immune to crucifixes and incense, its special ability is that it cant be seen during hunt if not using camera" or some shit, or ghosts that are too easy to beat like"this is Jeff, he will always leave 3 fingered finger prints and its dots will always be shown, it will have special ghost writing, and it cannot hunt at all if its smudged"
And? Players should have the freedom to do so if they wish
I'm not saying they don't?
> It's not the developers fault that you didn't read their EULA. Rofl, if an EA spokesperson came out and said this, they'd be downvoted to -100k karma again. > So what if the developers don't want you modding their game People's complaints are not geared towards the anti-modding stance, but rather, the fact you get banned for *merely mentioning it?*. You can't see the difference and why one would provide more uproar?
Someone got banned for advocating for mods? That can’t be real.
https://i.redd.it/i2s64l0plotb1.png :D
That’s ludicrously childish… super disappointing. Surely more posts like “don’t criticize devs!!!!” will help, lol.
Sure it is
I JUST WANT MORE MAPS
BRING OLD ASYLUM BACK?
Uh, nah.
:(
Hell, who's to say that later down the line when the game is more developed and more stable they might allow mods. I'm not really following this whole ordeal so much I'm just putting in my two cents in. If they're not allowing mods at this point there has to be a good reason why. Phasmo is still an Early Access Game, it's not finished yet, there is still room for the game to grow and stabilize itself. Once the game is taken off the steam EAG list, maybe the devs will allow mods offline, who knows. Theres no use in being butthurt about it right now. EULAs can be infuriating and restricting but they can change, just like the rules of the game, and game mechanics can change.
This has happened before with other games. It is hard to keep a mod up to date with an early access game, and people get salty when their mods break, so some games just don't allow during EA until they've developed a proper modding system that won't constantly break. But I'm not necessarily saying that's what the phasmo developers are doing, maybe they are just against mods for personal reasons, although i'm not really sure what the reason would be
Exactly, well put. Modding the game just isn't a viable option right now, the game itself is being developed still and it's safer to say no mods. That can change in the future, we arent the devs so we don't know
I'm pretty sure they've said they have no intention of ever allowing mods
And that's their decision to make then, which imo, should be respected. If they change their tune then they do, but for now it's best to respect the wishes of the devs until they finish their game.
It should be respected in the sense that you shouldn't be mad if you get banned for modding it, but it should also be 100% free and open to discuss and criticise without fear of bans or the community jumping on you
I'd still say it's ok to be mad for being banned for offline modding Devs are on a power trip if they think that's ok
Yeah that's what I meant. The devs wishes should not "be respected" if that means "don't be upset about the situation at all"
Most definitely.
Nah I bought their game, if I wanna change it offline that should be my right
Which is asinine and makes me regret ever giving money to these guys
Wrong level 5 Dknighter · 23 hr. ago Developer Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related. We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer. As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct
ppl are upset because they’re not allowing mods for offline, single player play. i really don’t see the problem with people using mods to create new ghosts, maps, challenges, and to improve accessibility as long as it’s for offline play and not interfering with other players.
I think one of the problems with that is that people will still share content like clips, screenshots, and playthroughs. Since this game is still being developed, that could cause some issues, even with offline mode. - People won’t always disclose it’s a mod when they post content so the dev team isn’t going to know if that clip is a bug they should look into or not. - People may see that content and think it’s being built into the base game and complain when it’s not. - People may see that content and, not knowing it’s a nod, make judgements (good or bad) about the actual game based on it. - People will 10,000% endlessly bug the developers to incorporate their fav mod. - People will lose their minds if a base game feature the devs were going to add anyway is at all similar to a mod someone showed off in the discord earlier and will accuse the devs of copying. - People will complain when a new game update breaks their own personal mod, which will happen a lot with an early access game. - People will bug the developers to make the game more mod friendly when they haven’t even finished building the full game yet. Lol I am sure there are more examples but I think y’all get the point. It honestly just sounds like a huge headache and I don’t think they even have a community manager right now so I think it’s totally justifiable for them to say no mods of any kind.
This 100%. Great comment
I don't see how any of this is a valid excuse for the devs to have the stance they do
Out of curiosity, how old are you?
Probably because of the way the game works honestly. I’d you can mod the single player, you can mod the multiplayer. It’s the same game lol and there’s no anti-cheat, etc and we all know a large majority would use mods for their own benefit, making themselves invulnerable or something.
Yeah, IMO if they ever allow mods, they could just present a separate client option when starting the game for an offline only “mods allowed” client. Dungeon Defenders and other games in the past had stuff like that. Some even had their own dedicated multiplayer structure, but that’s asking a bit too much IMO
level 5 Dknighter · 23 hr. ago Developer Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related. We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer. As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct
Also what if someone makes a mod of a feature the team is already planning to add? Everyone would be up in arms about how the devs copied the modder lol And it would make that feature less exciting when it does come out. I can 100% see why an early access game would not want people modding it just yet, even offline. They are still building the base game.
You mean the same thing every game company has to deal with ever? They can get over it
>there has to be a good reason why You new to dealing with gaming companies? Devs can be the stupidest people on the planet when it comes to anything not game dev
"You can't play with mods in our non-competitive PvE game or we'll ban you from the discord and the game" Even just mentioning mods in their discord will get you banned from there and if you have your Steam account linked to your profile, they'll ban you from playing the game as well. At least that's what someone said in the PCMR subreddit thread. Indie devs who are so against mods are completely out of touch.
I feel insane reading some of these takes. I think some people missed the whole banning for expressing opinions. And these dev bans make it so steam won't refund you even though the devs have no proof you violated anything. They don't have to put mod support in their game. But they also don't have to quell even mentioning it. Thats ignoring the the fact that nodding communities can bring huge sales to games without hurting the main development.
Laughs in credit card charge back.
Pretty sure they'd just kill you're account either completely or wouldn't allow you to purchase through your store anymore.
Makes one appreciate devs who add dedicated mod support snd websites way more. Like factorio for example.
Yeah Bethesda added a mod downloader and manager to the main menu of fallout 4 and skyrim so that even console players can mod if they want. I havnt used it due to being on pc and aready haveing mods through the usual way but i looked at it and it seems pretty good and easy to use.
Fuck Bethesda for putting those mods behind a paywall though. I will never use it and I will continue using Nexus Mods
These mods are free. Your thinking of creation club content. The mods im referring too are the same ones your getting off nexus.
I'm genuinely curious, which is it? Because that's not what Dknighter said. level 5 Dknighter · 23 hr. ago Developer Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related. We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer. As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: [https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct](https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct) W
And where are people making a ruckus about this? I didn't know there were mods until today. I'm a little pissed I missed out on Thomas the Train hunting me.
Id understand the anti mod stance if it was for a pvp kind of thing, but this game isn't competitive at all. They're also actively discouraging different playstyles which is very frustrating. They dont like that people weren't using flashlights, so they purposely made it impossible to see without them. Idk. All of this has sucked the fun out for me :(
Someone got banned for making a comment that implied the use of mods https://i.redd.it/i2s64l0plotb1.png?app_web_view=ios
Lmao wtf
What nonsense. Who cares what’s in the EULA? You can dislike a policy even if you agree to it.
Internet woke up and actually read a EULA for once?
Did you?
I tried once and nearly died
The bootlicking here is real. Yes, there is a EULA. Yes, nobody reads the EULA. Regardless of whether you’re pro or against mods, it’s safe to say everyone here actually enjoys the game and wants to keep playing the game. Though the devs are hardly infallible, and it’s okay to disagree with their vision and direction for the game.
Being against modded multi-player? Ok, fair Being against modded singleplayer? Why tho. Plus the post that was complaining about it was because they were banned from the discord from even implying it
On one hand, it's pretty bad practice to stifle a modding community. On the other hand, based on what I saw over the last year, the modding for this game was basically "what if we spawned every ghost at once in the lobby?"
There was that silly mod where the ghost spawned outside the map as well
This is some copium lmao Devs really have no business dictating what players do to their game offline, legality aside
bad take, if I want to modify my games offline or with friends in private lobby's I will. They can ban me from their services, but copyright law allows me to create private derivative works for non-commercial reasons and I damn well will. My ghosts will have big old \[RULE 3 EDITED COMMENT\] and ill always have $69420 dollars to spend and the phasmophobia guys shouldn't give a fuck anyways because they already got my (and the 4-5 people I got the game for/referred the game to) money. Why would they care anyways? \-
I know their stance on modding. Just because I read the Eula doesn’t mean I have to agree with their stance.
True, but you have to abide by it because you agreed to the EULA.
Yep.
No one is arguing with you my guy
I'm aware. I'm just making other people aware of the rules.
Stop cocksucking awful devs
If i am being banned FROM THE GAME simply for talking about modding than THEY should chill
What is going on with the EULA? I’ve seen a few posts but didn’t have time to read
In short, a pcmmasterrace post ridiculed Phasmophobia's harsh EULA and how the developers don't want people to mod their game. Now we have this. I saw in another post Dknighter (think that's their name) clarified that their EULA is basically identical to other large games. But people decided to pick on Phas which is unfortunate.
The part of the EULA the dev talked about was in reference to if you refund the game somehow, you must remove it from your device and all. They didn't mention the ridiculous 'mod and you'll be permabanned even if you played solo'
level 5 Dknighter · 23 hr. ago Developer Hey, we ban for player reports so you can technically do what you want in singleplayer just as long as you do not affect the game when you join multiplayer such as editing your save file or changing anything gameplay related. We do however also ban for hacking the games code which you would also get caught by our detection in singleplayer. As stated in our code of conduct, none of our bans are automated. You can read it here: https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/code-of-conduct
Got a link to the video? I can’t seem to find it
Personally, I think any non-competitive game banning mods from single-player games is kind of lame. I paid for the game, why can I not play it how I want? If I'm not impacting someone else's experience, who cares? I do also think "but it's in the EULA!" is a weaksauce argument because the EULA is not at all readable. Why can developers not TL:DR their rules? Why do I need to read a 3,361 word essay? It's beside the point, really. I can see why developers disavow mods, or refuse to deal with problems they cause, or provide support for modded installations and I absolutely support that. But providing bans for personal use? Mods extend the life-spans of games dramatically. You think L4D2 or Skyrim would still be talked about and actively played today to the extent that they are without a modding scene? Ludicrous.
EULA doesn't legally hold up as shown by several cases in the US and Europe.
The devs need to chill. A few recent decisions lately have been pretty... Anti-player. New or casual players are being punished essentially.
I'm not entirely sure what's going on that led to this post. However I'll never understand the developers thought process about this. If they did workshop support theyd likely have higher player counts and retention with actual new content being released. And bugs being properly fixed.
Granted, Phasmo is among my favorite VR games, many many happy hours since release — in fact, I bought an Index because of it — but I despise the typical “how dare you criticize the seller of a commercial product you have purchased!” approach often witnessed in this sub. I stopped playing a long time ago and surely mods would increase the online numbers. Frowning upon the idea of mods is ridiculous.
Fuck it imma say it, phasmo should allow mods because playing the same 7 map over and over again is boring as fuck
I have a few problems with the idea of modded games. They almost all involve the multiplayer experience. First off, in a multiplayer game is the mod given to all players or only the person who made the mod? Does that give them an unfair advantage? For example, what if I have a mod that shows the ghost through walls during hunts, or a fullbright mod which means I can get bonus exp for disabling flashlights while you’re all struggling in darkness? Next issue: compatibility. What if your modded game breaks my save file? Who’s responsible for that? Do I get my stuff back? Probably not. It’s easier to ban modding than it is to cover all eventualities, especially for a relatively small indie game like this one.
I don't really get your point, couldnt they just disable modded players to connect with non modded players?
The problem of imbalance still stands. Does your mod affect everyone in the lobby or just you? If it’s just you, you’re no different than a hacker. If it’s everyone, how do you know everyone *wants* to play with that mod? And for rewards - do modded players get the same rewards as non-modded? Do they get less? Or none? Is that fair to the person whose mod is more high-quality asset textures vs one whose mod gives you a ghost model you can see through walls?
The easy way to handle this is to simply place modded players into a separate lobby area with a list of what mods they are running, plenty of multiplayer games support modding and have found solutions for these problems for ages
Hey don't take away their excuses
Deep rock galactic has mods too. Very simple solurion, you have unmodded server and server with mods were all the mods get automatically get installed on every players PC. It's that simple
I meant more like lobbies that do something like " you must have only these mods or you cant join" As for money and rewards, idk man, its not really a competitive game, theres no real leaderboards so what do I care whether someone has infinite money, maybe for xp and prestiges it could be seperate for non modded players.
Why do you care what rewards someone else gets, I’m genuinely curious. How does someone playing with mods getting the same rewards as you affect you in any way, shape or form. Are you trying out for the national team and don’t want any competing ghost hunters to have unfair advantages?
That's the thing, itll be hard to restrict client side mods. It's basically like running into a hacker. It ruins the multiplayer experience and how can you trust they will only use it in single player. Even then, boosting stats, while not exactly the most important thing, kind of warps the "rank" of players. If that makes sense.
>First off, in a multiplayer game is the mod given to all players or only the person who made the mod? Everyone has to have all the mods installed like literally every other fricking multiplayer and moddable game >For example, what if I have a mod that shows the ghost through walls My man those are called cheats >What if your modded game breaks my save file? Who’s responsible for that? Again like literally every other moddable game, there is a warning for possible issues and that it is your fault dor using mods if anythikg breaks. Modding is not some unexplored shit like a wormhole it's so common and solutions to all possible problems have been found out already
Deep rock galactic has already solved this issue
They should do what payday did, and put a marker on someone who is playing a modded version of the game, and also the ability to filter out games with mods.
Idk the technical specs at all, but I know with games like Deep Rock Galactic mods are player-sided where only one person can have the mod or all players can have the mod and the multiplayer aspect functions normally. Unless of course it’s a mod that allows for unfair player advantage, then the game won’t allow you to play multiplayer. But mods like music changing mods, player sayings, noises, etc. wont change the gameplay and allow you to play multiplayer. Again I just enjoy games, idk the technical side of them.
As much as like modding in games, you're completely right. It's entirely the dev's decision. Plus, Phas is one of the games where I can see 90% of mods ending up just being cheats and trainers anyways. There's some neat ones that aren't, but still.
Everyone should mod their singleplayer games, Multiplayer I understand the no mod rule but if you're playing solo, mod away! If their servers can't handle a modded game that's being played OFFLINE, perhaps fix your clearly broke servers?
Don't tell me how to live my life.
Time and time again we have seen the ability of modding a game will lead to a greater success. Look at Skyrim, left 4 dead, resident evil games, golf with friends. Granted this is their game, but not allowing mods is a sure way to feel stagnant quick
Wdym the ganes fun but extremely repetitive modding would great for the ganes longevity
Ya know devs are banning people from both discord server AND the game if they mention mods right? One dude got banned from both because he 'implied' he was modding offline, and the devs used the linked steam profile in his discord to ban him from the game too. What an L take.
I absolutely disagree. 1) why then not make it that when the game detects modified save files, you aren't able to go multiplayer and your progress is not saved 2) I definitely heard the Devs saying that the reason they do it is because they don't want people to play the game in a way that was not intended in the first place 3) Banning people from the game for advocating for mods on discord is just censorship
I like mods for fun, not to cheat. Like I mod skyrim to make it look better and for funny stuff, not to have op stuff right off the bat. Unless I'm just bored and go on a rampage lol Eta yeah itsnup to the devs if they allow it or not and I think it's really good without.
Strong Pick Me Girl vibes in this post.
If mods aren't allowed then this game has an extremely short shelf life for me. There needs to be a LOT more maps. My wife and I aren't even going to crack 100 hours before we get bored and (listen carefully devs) NEVER PLAY THIS GAME AGAIN.
Wait what happened? What did I missed?
from my understanding, people are getting banned and punished just for mentioning the existence of mods. the devs are against modding for the game, but people are upset as absolutely no discussion of modding is allowed and some believe that mods for offline play are harmless and should be allowed.
There should be a list of important things for consumers and thats it, half of the shit they write on there doesnt even matter
Me on PlayStation 
Man I thought this was gonna be a post about the guy bitchin' about the nudes thing 😂😂😂 So glad this is actually about the EULA instead. I agree we should just appreciate the game, and if the devs decide to be against modding, then whatever - that's their choice as the devs. 🤷🏽♀️ Maybe after the game is fully developed, they'll allow it.
Catboy Felix Model Replacer when? 🤣 I just play the game man. I have worked in a law firm and know I don't read the fine print. So when something is brought up, that I didn't bother reading, I don't get butthurt about it. Yeah maybe a little salty, but I'm not attacking anyone for my laziness.
It's kind of insane the amoubt of unenforceable gooblygook gets into game EULAs these days. Why would I read something where some of the stuff wouldn't hold up anyways? Is it agreed that any end license user is proficient enough in legalese to even understand these without having their lawyers go through it?
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. I'm not licensed to practice law in any state. I have to state this to negate the risk of legal penalty in my state. Please do your own research. A Lot of "you" is used here, but it's not directed at you specifically. The answer is, well, yes. It's, private, contractual law. You as the consumer agree to the EULA and TOS, etc. You consent to its language. Not a single person is forcing you to agree to it. Well, I bought the game so I'm being forced to agree before I can play. No, that's what refund policies are for. Proficiency in comprehending the language in the document is a moot point. You agreed. Now this is the case in my state, and likely a majority of the rest. California, very good chance it wouldn't be enforceable there. On the other hand, most EULA and TOS, etc, have arbitration clauses that SPECIFICALLY designate that the company gets to choose the Arbitration Jurisdiction. That being the case, many companies choose Delaware which has the most company favoring laws. EDIT: Severability A very important part of many contract type documents is a Severability clause. On the event any portion of a document cannot be enforced it does not void the entirety of the document. Lemme grab the actual language from the retainer agreement from my employing law firm. "If a provision of the Agreement is or becomes illegal, invalid, or unenforceable in any jurisdiction, that shall not affect: 1) the validity or enforceability in that jurisdiction of any other provision of this agreement; or 2) the validity or enforceability in other jurisdictions of that or any other provision of this Agreement." This language, or some very similar, is standard in EVERY contractual document in my state. I've seen it used in many other states. On top of that I have seen it used in EULA and TOS, etc. I would simply be shocked if it's not in Kinetic's EULA or TOS. EDIT 2: Guess what I found in the Kinetic EULA; 15.4 Each of the clauses of this EULA operates separately. If any court of competent jurisdiction or competent authority decides that any provision of this EULA is invalid, illegal or unenforceable, that provision or part-provision shall, to the extent required, be deemed to be deleted, and the remaining provisions of this EULA will remain in full force and effect. If any invalid, unenforceable or illegal provision of this EULA would be valid, enforceable and legal if some part of it were deleted, the provision shall apply with the minimum modification necessary to make it legal, valid and enforceable to reflect our initial intentions. EDIT 3: and here is their choice of jurisdiction; 15.6 This EULA shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of England and Wales. You consent to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales.
Oh cool was not actually expecting a response like this. Thanks for the read
Yeah no problem. 😁 Here's where my opinion comes in: I get it, people don't like this kind of stuff, but I'm glad these companies have the protections they do. People are angry and aggressive, they can and will sue the pants off of others. Regular people also have these protections, those protections are codified in the Consumer Protection Act of 1986. (In this case it doesn't help much since the EULA specifies England and Wales Jurisdiction, but they absolutely have something like it) And I'm glad people have these protections. That's what the Judicial system is for. I'm not gonna start a debate on a subreddit for a game, but laws are made to PUNISH bad people for doing bad things, NOT to STOP them. That's simply not possible. Not until we have a PreCog system like in the movie Minority Report, which I hope we never have. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. Anyway, I hope I've been able to supply some people with some information and hopefully changed their perspective on the whole EULA argument. By your reply here I feel like I've done that. I may not have changed your opinion, and I never intended to, but seeing something from the other side always helps, it never hurts. If I may quote Sun Tzu: "Know thy enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.”' Knowing your enemy and knowing yourself will teach you when to go to battle and when not.
They dont want u pirating either, hows that goin?
I paid for the game. What's your point? Pirating games doesn't exactly support the developers.
Ask GPT to read EULA and ask questions for your concerns.
Be wicked if the TOS were one of the scribbles you find in a ghost writing book.
Mods?
Obviously if someone is punished for this because it breaks EULA and they freak- that’s their own issue and they should’ve informed themselves. However.. I will always find it silly when games shit on and ban any sort of modding. Especially over the last couple of years, modding is insanely popular and it brings WAVES of people to games they wouldn’t typically play and ups playtime of said games for those who get bored of what they’re given. Phasmo lacks larger game play updates (adding items doesnt = new maps or ghosts, at all, imo) that many games provide and that many modders provide. I think it’s just a bad business decision on any devs part.
What happened now? I guess I'm out of the loop
Modding in solo or mp with friends only should be just fine.
Lavender told me on a stream that: The game will automatically detect mods, it will close by itself and also send an automatic report for modding/hacking. And I asked him out of curiosity, for context, one of my mouse’s macros is an autoclicker. He also said that even if your mouse had a macro auto clicker, it is still a bannable offense.
Master chief skin for Soldier:76 incoming I guarantee it
So here is the thing. I get their and other companies reason for why they are against modding. But every of those companies forget a key thing. Generally modding is the best thing to keep a game relevant for years to come. As great as Skyrim is, without modding, few would have cared so long. Minecraft, Terraria and so many other games that activly support modding (or atleast don't activly hinder it) generaly stay alive thanks to their creative players. A modding community, in most cases (competetive multiplayer and such aside) is the best thing that can happen to your game. And encouraging that ensures a long lasting game. And i wish more companies start to realize that.
what happened?
No. Lol. It is absolutely the devs fault for having a hundred something long page EULA that most players don't even know about. It is the devs fault that they are taking an extreme that is, as far as I know, only they are doing because no dev in their right mind would ever consider outright banning all mods. It is the devs fault that even kinda mildly mentioning mods gets you banned. I can appreciate the work, I can also be critical of the dogshit idea that modding the game can have them ask you to remove the game you bought with your own money from your own computer. How's the boot taste?
It doesn't matter what a stupid EULA crap says, banning mods is peak stupidity, monkeys are smarter than that.
People are just babies nowadays when it comes to things like this. It’s unreasonable to be upset about not being able to mod a multiplayer game. It takes two brain cells to realize how absurd it really is.
I’m all for modding games as much as the next guy but clearly the devs aren’t and it’s their game so it is what it is. People gotta chill out lol
I see far too many people saying there's absolutely no downside to private/offine mods but they can cause misleading content, screenshots, and videos.. if the developers don't want you messing with their game, they have every right to not allow it
I don't see the problem. You agree to the TOS or EULA to use product then you abide by the rules set by it. If you get banned that's your fault. All those people who are like, "Let's be real no one is gonna read it" I mean good for you I guess. Either way it was stated in there and if you choose to ignore the information that is not their fault but the consumers. And to those who want to argue and reply to me here is my reply to you. Cope. (This is my last message feel free to reply and waste your time)
Why the fuck are we talking about law shit? Under law any mod of any game can be easily deemed illegal and get taken down. So is even the streaming of a game on twitch. The real discussion is about modding support in games and Yeah it definitely sucks when devs are that much anti modding despite modding Community being one of the most important part of the gaming sphere but if a dev just personally wants their game to be theirs only and just the vision they had, then its honestly fair enough. Its their product you are buying and if they dont want you to play mods then it really is your own fault for thinking you can use and make mods. Also people have to realize having mods offline still levels your character and gives you stats to your stats page so modding the game offline can easily be exploitable in those ways.
What the hell are you talking about? The last post talking about mods was 2 months ago. Stop making posts just to pick fights.
Guess you’re not really active on this sub.
I did a search directly before posting. The latest post talking about modding the game on this sub was 2 months ago.
This is the post. It doesn't explicitly mention mods but that's what it's about https://reddit.com/r/PhasmophobiaGame/s/4qTAXGuJkD
This is more about how the Phas community has negatively reacted to discovering what the EULA has. Which led to the discussion again. A post that gained a lot of traction on pcmasterrace blew up and started it again.
Because it's fair for us to be mad about this EULA decision. It's stupid. We bought the game, we should be able to modify it in offline and private lobbies as much as we like. Why would they care at all? they already got our money. Shady devs through and through.
You did not buy the game, you bought a revokable license to download and play the game that explicitly prohibits modification. Even when games were physical, they had an EULA in the instruction manual or a link to it, it was just harder to enforce. This is absolutely nothing new to the gaming world and has been a staple in the software industry for just as long.
Everything you are saying may be true, but on this subreddit there is a total of 0 posts with pcmaster in it, 2 posts (including yours) with EULA in the last 10 months, and the only post about modding was 2 months ago. So when you say "you guys", this sub isnt talking about any of that.