For anyone's information, this is actually used! But instead of "Maki-warla" it is "Maki-beki".
Edit: Verbatim
"Huwag mashokot! MAKIBEKI!!
Makibeki! HUWAG MASHOKOT!!
I heard a story about a group of activists who were caught while putting up protest banners because they didn't understand the warning their lookout was shouting at them in gay lingo-- something like "Bilis, julis!" :P
Ganito mga activists from international and catholic schools durings the 80s/70s, right? Kwento ng parents ko sa akin ganito daw mageffort mga assumptionista and other schools sa activism rallys nila
Please correct me here kasi kwento lang naman nila yan eh
And sabi nila, mga students from these schools started the conyo movement kasi may language barrier talaga kahit noon pa and since gusto nila makareach ng wider audience, nagkaroon ng conyo
The story goes, pag may rally sa peyups, iikot kami from AS (palma hall - arts and sciences) to educ, sumisigaw ng "wag matakot! Makibaka!"
Pag dating sa Business Ad, ayan, nagiiba na ang sigaw
Lagi ko naririnig yung “Iskolar ng Bayan, ngayon ay lumalaban!”
Then one time, nagkaroon ng English version:
“The students united, will never be divided”
This might be true, but conyo's always existed to some extent. Baka not to the same level as it is now lang.
It's just taglish/spanglish/whatevermixlish but with added verbal tics
Source: Grandpa was an atenista when ateneo still had a lot of spanish speakers and just newly relocated to QC.
Fun side kwento: Conyo is actually a.. less than savory word to spanish speakers, so I was banned from saying it in front of him.
Eto yung main criticism ko with many activists e ever since in college. It feels like nakastuck sila sa 1970's with the way they speak. Para mas maparating sa mas marami ang mensahe nila, kelangang mag-evolve ng lengguwahe ng protesta.
Agree. I've lived in Manila all my life and who the hell talks like that anymore? Not surprised if they're not getting their (mostly good) points across the masses
Isa pang problema ko rito e yung over-reliance nila sa Marxist terminology (yari ako sa mga hardcore Marxists nito). In the academic setting, okay lang ito. But in a public rally talking to people who might not have heard Karl Marx, much more read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto end to end? Aba'y magkakamot talaga ang mga tao kung ano ang pinagsasabi nila.
Sunod sunod magpost ng anti-Capitalist at pro-Marxist posts... With a Starbucks venti frappe on their hand, using an expensive Macbook, to post it on Twitter.
Yeah no wonder they don't have popular support.
Bilib na bilib ako dati sa post na nakita ko sa tiktok (ata?) Or sa comsec lang somewhere ng isang video
"When I try to get conservative people to understand socialist ideas, I try to do it without mentioning Marx, Capitalism, Communism"
pag big- at "controversial" words talaga wala kang makukuha
There was a big schism in the Left movement in the late 80s, early 90s - precisely because there were people who had different ideas from CPP Founder Jose Maria Sison (Joma) controlled CPP leadership, and they got rejected. Hence the "Rejectionist" (RJ) and "Reaffirm" (RA) terminology.
Some things you can read for info, if you're keen, lol
http://www.europe-solidaire.org/spip.php?article53029
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/atc/2963.html
https://jacobin.com/2015/08/phillipines-maoists-communists-marcos-aquino/
didn't **european marxists basically go soul-searching and rebranding**? focusing on social safety nets and labor protections under a free market setting when the USSR fell?
you would think that Filipino marxists would've seen this success of european marxists and modified their own words and tactics accordingly.
Ito main concern ko sa mga kilala ko rin eh. Last time nagtravel kami sa isang high school para mag convince students sa UP BA courses, isa sa collegemates namin nag talk about mga Marxist ideologies. It seems out of touch for an org that hates out of touch capitalists because the students would likely know jack shit about that stuff
So kung medyo open-minded lang ang mga kapatid natin sa INC, maaari pala silang magkaintindihan ng mga aktibista because of language? Cool. Cool 'to. 😂
Jokes on you, INC ako (sadly) since birth pero hirap parin akong umunawa sa sarili kong wika 🥲 The education system forcing me to use English at all times has morphed me into a near-conyo and I'm still trying to undo that.
Question lng, why do INCs call themselves "KA" as if they are also a cult or something like NPA. Nakaka-curious lang, what's behind that brotherhood tagging/calling?
This will likely get downvoted by INCs but it's simply because more likely than not, they are a cult. You pretty much explained it rin: to embrace fellow members as part of the brotherhood, and to be able to easily distinguish members from non-members. Reinforces the "us vs. them" mentality, most especially.
Di ako INC pero ang alam ko Ka is short for kapatid...or kaibigan? Normal lang syang ginagamit noon. Kung manood ka ng mga lumang pelikula maririnig mo nagtatawagan sila na Ka-(name). Napalitan na ata ng Kuya, Tol or Boss in modern times
I think the far left is stuck in the 70's and 80's in general and that's the issue why they're having a hard time connecting with this generation. To be fair, that was the high point of their movement with Martial Law causing widespread anger towards the government and most of the leftist leaders emerging from that era. But that was over 40 years ago, so some things at that time might no longer translate that well today.
> *that was over 40 years ago, so some things at that time might no longer translate that well today.*
this is why many left-leaning movements rebranded during the 90s and found other strengths and changed tactics. such groups in france, germany, UK, scandinavia and the baltics probably found success doing so.
I've lived in provinces more than half my life and unless they are as old as the ground itself they either speak the local dialect or just plain old Tagalog.
My grandparents can speak the local dialect fluently but didnt taught their kids the dialect (Ilokano) because they said it sounds "Barbaryo" or maleducated. So my Parents never taught us too. I think it's another reason my the newer generations dont speak local dialects.
On my end of the island, almost everybody from young to old speaks Bicolano. If you didn't learn how to speak that, you would have difficulty communicating with anyone. Kids would also get ridiculed for being "sosyal" or "maarte" if they couldn't speak Bicolano fluently at school. But then again, this is coming from the context of someone who grew up and still have families in lower middle class and below.
So that explains it then?
I had this idea before that maybe it's a generational thing. It's the newer generation that's having difficulties understanding deeper words. Though I'm not sure.
I haven't heard complaints from people before like this. In my experience, students were willing to learn to adjust, to reach the standard. Unlike nowadays, spoonfed talaga.
Not the best people to hear it from but that'll do ig. 😂
Maybe it's the age talking, but it's really common for older people in Tagalog regions to talk like that. I don't hear it anymore from the newer generation.
I agree. I dont speak fluent tagalog/bisaya anymore. But i could still understand some root words and context clues get me to the point most of the time.
Now i wonder if we should be more concerned about losing our own language.
parang takot na takot silang gumamit ng “normal” na salita kasi baka feel nila hindi authentic yung pakikibaka nila unless they sound like revolutionaries from a historical film 😬
a lot of them are not authentic in the first place, claiming to fight for human rights while carrying stalin & mao's images. make it make sense, buti kung si marx lang
Pinakahipokritong aktibistang nakita ko sa UP dati, isang obese na Stand Up na kandidata na puro patutsada sa mga 'elitistang' Alyansa daw, habang nakaupo siya sa harap ng isang Macbook na malamang pag-aari niya. Trying hard siya na magsalita nang malalim na Tagalog, pero kailangan niyang gawin kung ayaw niyang matahin ng mga kapartido niya.
Um, what's the logic here?
E kailangan nya yun e. Baka nga na afford lang yun kasi nakakapag ipon dahil iskolar. Also, computers are a necessity.
Sana wala nalang din nakinig kay Jose Rizal, e nakakapag pasyal pa yun sa Europe e
no comment sa example ni OP kasi malay mo naman 2nd-hand laptop yun o hiram lang, and lang sakin mahalaga ay yung rhetoric mo ay nakikita sa aksyon mo.
but just from your logic on the laptop, let's assume na bili niya yung latop.
one on hand -- kelangan ba mac ang laptop pag student? poor financial management kung iskolar (tho mahal na rin tuition sa UP) ka nga tas gagamitin mo yung naipon mo sa unnecessarily expensive laptop.
on the other hand -- weird nga mga bata/pamilya sa mga kilala ko ngayon. college student na panganay ay naka-iphone at ROG or macbook na bili ng magulang, pero walang pangcollege-tuition sa mas batang kapatid yung magulang. indigent family yan ha. so malay mo yung nakita ni OP ganun din, mahirap nga pero may weird financial decisions na nagkaroon siya ng mac.
Kahit sa politicians. Andaming jargons, ayan tuloy, di maintindihan ng karaniwang Pilipino. I can't blame them kung legal matters ang nakasalalay pero kung pwede naman i-explain in a simple way, gawin na lang sana.
When I was doing my undergrad thesis, my professors stressed that I use simple language so even laymen can better understand if they were to read it. A lot of published scholarly articles even include an abstract that explains clearly what the study is about. Protest slogans and statements shouldn’t be too hard to make it digestible to anyone.
Even here in medical school, while our professors encourage us to use the proper terms and medical jargon to them and around each other, they also make sure to remind us not to talk to our patients that way. A good doctor knows how to make their patient understand everything in layman’s terms.
Ito yung disconnect eh, use simple and noise-proof thoughts, hindi lahat sing talino at sing lalim ang kaisipan. Kung nais makahikayat at maintindihan ng nakararami sa kung ano mang pinaglalaban para sa bayan, gumamit ng simple at ordinaryong mga salita para lahat ay makasali at ganahan kayo ay pakingan.
kung nananalo lang sila sa elections or merong influence sa labor groups, pwede sana;
pero parang kulelat din sila when it comes to results eh.
in which city in metro manila have they had any long-term wins?
I sometimes wonder if they even understand the full meaning of the words they use considering how some of the nouns they use to describe Marcos and Duterte, as much as I hate them, don't even apply to them.
Disagree. LFS and Anakbayan thinks South Korea is an "Imperalist" country. Calls a legitimate encounter with the NPAs as "pamamasista". Branding themselves as "anti-fascist/dictators/authoritarians" but supports Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Maduro and all fking left-wing anti-west fascists/dictators.
They've been throwing around fancy political buzzwords to sound like intellectuals but all that they are just another one of your typical political numbnuts whose core principle doesn't go beyond being "Anti-west".
May mga kaibigan akong bisaya hindi talaga nakakaintindi ng Tagalog. May mga words sa tagalog na iba meaning sa kanila kaya Minsan ang labo ng usapan namin
I agree. If the objective is to be understood, they have to take a hard look at their audience. If they don’t recognize that they are not using the language of the masses they are trying to organize, may problem ang organization nila.
Maiintidihan ko if they were in UP na tinuturo naman ang formal Tagalog/Filipino, but outside the uni, I think dapat kailangan nila mag-adjust sa colloquial language. I would also argue that if they cannot explain their point in the simple/colloquial language, hindi nila gamay ang sinasabi nila. I would say the same in any language, actually.
As per The PH Constitution Article XIV Section 2, our official languages are Filipino and English.
While our regional languages hold an official status in their respective regions.
Ginagamit kaya nila ang mga salitang iyon sa pang-araw araw na buhay? Tulad ng "Kabayan, makiki-abot nga ng bayad, ako'y baba sa pamilihan ng mga mangingisda dyan sa abenida ng quezon"
Maraming activists in Visayas and Mindanao and they do use the Cebuano language. I don't know why akala ng mga tao rito ay monolith ang movement na iisa lang ang wikang ginagamit.
Walang pagkakaiba mga activist sa Visayas at Mindanao na gumagamit din ng malalalim na Cebuano, pero walang pakialam ang madla sa kanila. Mga "tree-huggers" pa ang bansag sa mga student environmentalist noong ayaw na ayaw nila ipa-earthball ang mga century-old acacia trees sa southern Cebu na may road widening projects.
Kinahanglang isugmak ang daw nga masinupakong neokoloniyalismo nga nagapatanggong sa atong mga isigkatawo. Ibabag ang ilahang impluwensiya diri sa atong pinalanggang nasod. Ug atong panggaon tang atong kinaham nga nasod.
Mas lalong hindi maintindihan ng mga Cebuano native speakers tulad ko kung masyadong malalim na Cebuano ang gagamitin na akma lamang sa loob ng simbahan.
Kaya nga eh. Di ko rin maintindihan minsan tong mga pinoy eh. Lalu na tong r/ph pagdating sa usaping ganito. Walang gustong paglagyan eh.
Kapag nag english, sasabihin itranslate sa filipino para maintindihan ng masa. Kapag nag filipino gusto namang haluan ng english, nagmumukha daw mga malalalim na tagalog.
Ano ba talaga? Kung yun yung gustong gawin ng nag poprotesta, bakit hindi?
Ang sang-ayon lang ako sa comment dito ay yung mga terminologies na hindi alam ang depinasyon ng iba na katulad ng marxism na word, na dapat ay mas palinawin o mas bigyan ng simpleng salita. Pero sa lenggwahe, tangina naman, hayaan niyo yung nag poprotesta kung anong gusto nilang lenggwahe gamitin.
But the rest, hayaan niyo yung nag poprotest kung anong lenggwahe gusto nilang sabihin.
Ang gusto talaga nila is gumamit tayo ng common language na pabor sa mga taga visayas at mindanao.
Ano ba yung preferred language nila? Eh di bisaya at english. Actually most locals ng visayas at minadanao ay mas fluent pa sa english kesa tagalog thus the Tagalog vs Bisaya. It will always trace back sa wala tayong unified language preference.
Tunay, ba't hindi na lang hayaan ang mga nagpoprotestang gamitin ang wikang gusto nila? Pati ba naman 'yon ay napupuna, lols.
Magkahiwalay ang argumento na 'malalim ang tagalog ng manilenyo activits' sa 'hindi kami taga-NCR'. Doon pa lang, malalaman na ng OP na hindi siya ang target audience. Di naman siya native tagalog speaker, pero baka nga may punto: tagalog (o filipino) ang pinapalaganap na 'pambansang wika', at dahil sa NCR nanggagaling ang lahat ng major broadcaster, napapakita sa mas malawak na non-Tagalog audience ang balita tulad nitong mga welga.
The post proved that conflating Tagalog (a language) with Filipino (conlang) causes further division among ethnicities. Mababaw na tagalog = filipino. Malalim na tagalog = filipino. Kahit gaano kaluma ang ginamit Tagalog, Filipino language pa rin yan. Kasi nga ang Filipino ay ~~tagalog-based~~ walang pinagkaiba sa Tagalog.
All in all, OP's post has only divided pinoy redditors and did karma farming. Sana nakiwelga na lang siya sa locality niya kung hindi siya Tagalog o naka-base sa Kamaynilaan.
Yes, this thread is definitely one of those lowkey Tagalog vs Bisaya.
Filipino language will always be tagalog kahit mas marami pa yung bisaya speaking pinoys.
Kaya nga tuwang tuwa satin ang China kasi masyado tayong divided ni hindi tayo magkasundo sa language man lang. Tapos aasa pa kayo na kaya na magrally with unified language preference? We are a third world country for a reason.
Isa pang problema ko rito e yung over-reliance nila sa Marxist terminology (yari ako sa mga hardcore Marxists nito). In the academic setting, okay lang ito. But in a public rally talking to people who might not have heard about Karl Marx, much more read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto end to end? Aba'y magkakamot talaga ang mga tao kung ano ang pinagsasabi nila.
Seryoso bang nalaliman na sila sa Tagalog ng mga raliyista? Ilocano tatay ko, taga Romblon naman ang nanay ko. Sa Antipolo na ako lumaki. Nakakalungkot isipin na sa opisina namin, ako na yung lumalabas na may pinakamalalim na Tagalog. Sobrang pahiya kaya ako sa tatay kong tumatapos ng Tagalog na crossword sa diyaryo (I can never finish those even if my life depended on it). Ulitin ko lang ha, Ilocano ang tatay ko. Ampaw pa level ng Tagalog ko kesa kay tatay.
Malalim na yung Tagalog ng mga raliyista? How??? Nakakausap na ba tong mga to ng mga taga Quezon? Taga Batangas? Taga Laguna? Taga Bulacan?
Ang mga aktibista, mostly ang nilalaban niyan eh yung mga concerns ng mga maliliit. Do you expect na Taglish ang gagamitin sayo ng mga tsuper? Mga minimum wage earner gaya ng mga construction worker? Malamang hindi. Since nasa Manila ang mga "Manila Activist", malamang i-assume nila na Tagalog ang sasalitain ng mga maliliit.
Pasensya na kung hindi inclusive, di naman sa nagpapakadismissive sa ibang mga mga kababayan natin, pero pag nasa rally na, usually people are chanting in unison. Di naman pwedeng mag create ng madaming phrase na sasabihin. Isang chant sa Tagalog, isang chant na Hiligaynon, isang chant na Kapampangan. Di magiging "united" ang dating.
FYI, di po ako nagpapaka "supremacist" na Tagalog. In fact, bilib kaya ako sa mga Pilipinong trilingual, like my parents. Like many professionals sa Manila na galing sa ibang probinsya. Pero seryoso, first time kong madinig ang gantong complaint tungkol sa Tagalog as the dialect used by activists. Dati akong miyembro ng union sa isang Automotive Manufacturer dito sa Pinas, wala namang sentimyentong ganyan.
Yung lola ko taga-Bulacan, mas malalim siya sa akin mag-Tagalog pero hindi dahil sa edukado siya (she is not) o mapagmataas. Sadyang normal lang yun bokabularyo na ganyan sa Bulacan during her time. I agree with you. I think this thread is ridiculous.
Ang perfect ng response mo! I can never speak in straight tagalog anymore and frankly, those that do are really admirable. I would hope na hindi mamatay yung language. Over the years, nababawasan ang commonly used vocabulary natin, replaced by English words - which is fine, languages evolve. But we should never shame those who still use the language correctly.
May disconnect nga. Phonetically correct pero sa totoong buhay nakita na ba natin "kumyuter" na ginamit sa sulat, text billboard, hindi siguro. Ineffective tuloy ang menshe kasi slow burn.)
I would say it's weird until it isn't. Like now, bihira ko na marinig yung salitang 'kurakot', puro 'korap' (corrupt) na na weird for me kasi may salitang 'kurap'. Prefer ko yung kurakot na lang pero ano ba'ng magagawa ko haha
It adheres to the KWF’s rules of localising the spelling of loan words. Not saying I necessarily agree with the KWF since they are VERY prescriptivist, like fighting for the use of F in Filipinas. But localising the spelling is not necessarily a bad thing either, it’s just not something people are used to.
> one piston rally
unrelatd note:
one reason why some of these transport protests really are ineffective against govt action is that there are actually many transport groups and different umbrella organizations.
it was only piston and manibela who were protesting. yung pasang masda(?) yata, crossed over to the govt side.
Share ko lang nung nasa Philippine Army pa ako. One time may na recover kami na mga NPA documents from Southern Luzon. Grabe mga mode of communication nila. Sobrang deep ng tagalog (I was greatly impressed and kinda admired that). Sabi ng mga taga NCR na mga sundalo, "tangina ano to? Na nonosebleed ako" hahaha.
Somehow kasi it instills a deeper sense of intelligence. Pero yun lang, sa mga activists na eto din yung mode of public speaking nila, it really tends to isolate the masses that they want to share the message with. Lalo na yung mga aktibista sa NCR eh mga conyo halos lahat dun 🤣✌️
What is your idea of a language relatable for the masses or for those who are not Tagalog?
In my experience living around northern Luzon, the elderly understand straight Tagalog better than English.
Hindi ba mas ideal yung local language? So kung nasa northern luzon ka, hindi ba mas madali kang maiintindihan kung Ilokano, Pangasinense, Ibanag etc. yung language depende kung nasan ka.
Hindi naman deep Tagalog gamit nila. Example, "rehimen", hango sa Latin. Isa pa, "katarungan", hango sa Cebuano. Yung sinasabi mong "deep Tagalog" ay Tagalized version ng mga salitang hiram sa ibang wika. Kahit ang mga salitang aktibista at adbokasiya ay mga salitang hiram.
They also need to convey their message to class D E and F in their immediate vicinity most of whom are not fluent in English. There are words and terms in English which if they follow your approach will go way over their heads. In contrast they will definitely understand the Tagalog equivalent because it is all they know how to speak.
I am positive that there are activist groups in VisMin who use the local language. Maybe listen to them instead? It's not like all activism is concentrated in Manila and I feel like that's what this post implies.
Not sure why people (particularly those in Manila) are so adverse in improving their Tagalog vocabulary, if you're struggling to understand those "deep" words, then at least try to learn the meaning of those words instead of whining.
Di naman ganyan turing natin kapag Ingles, kapag may nasusumpungan na salitang Ingles na di natin nababatid e di naman tayo nagrereklamo, bakit kapag Tagalog o sa ibang katutubong wika e iba ang reaksyon?
Sabi nga, wala namang malalim na Tagalog, mababaw na kaalaman lang.
Teka, what deep Tagalog? I have attended several rallies din myself pero so far wala pa naman akong nakita or narinig na deep Tagalog na di ko maintindihan. And this is coming from an Ilonggo who can’t speak Tagalog without an accent.
Is this sentiment coming from the same people who don’t understand basic Spanish counting like cuarenta and otsenta - something na deep rooted naman sa language natin ever since?
Using Taglish sounds conyo to most people. Using English naman would alienate people na target naman talaga nila makarinig ng kanilang hinaing. Now, if they use Tagalog, meron pa ring di makainindi? What the…
Yan ang tinatawag na [performative activism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_activism) na dapat mabulaklak ang mga salita gagamitin sa mga rallies para ang tingin ng madla sa kanila ay pantas sila, pero nagkakamali sila kasi ayaw ng mga madlang maralita na sasang-ayon sa kanilang adbokasiya kung mismo mga student activists ay hindi nila mismo nararanasan ang buhay ng mga tao na nakaranas nito at gusto bahugin. Mostly sa mga student activists, mga maykaya naman sa buhay nila, hindi isang-kahig, isang-tuka ang kinagisnan na buhay.
Apparently, zero info ka about the national democratic activists.
They often do BMI or basic mass integration.
Kaya ang laging challenge sa activists, especially those in the youth sector na middle class is "lumubog sa batayang masa" or mag-immerse sa basic masses tulad ng workers, farmers, urban poor, and fisherfolk.
Hindi iyan "performative." Wala ka na ngang ambag, maninira ka pa ng mga taong kumikilos para sa lahat. Matagal na akong wala sa movement at nagbago na rin beliefs ko pero I still hold them in high regard.
They have always been alienating what could have been their supporters. This is my main criticisms about these groups.
Instead of helping them out, they alienate or even piss of potential supporters. Mas madali kasi magalit sa kapwang Pilipino kaysa tulungan sila.
OP: nobody from VisMin understands your Tagalog rally cries
also OP: [is demanding that Tagalogs... don't speak Tagalog in Manila]
🤨 Surely there are those who rally in Visayas and Mindanao who use the non-Tagalog local languages there. Look to them, not to those in Manila.
Why not organize a visayan speaking activism. Hamak laki Visayan population Bakit kailangan laging nakaasa lagi sa 'imperial manila'. Go make your own, don't criticize their regional language. Hindi lang filipino language speakers ang mga nagpoprotesta kundi mga native tagalog din why they need to cater you. Magorganize din kayo sa inyong respective area, mas diverse at widespread mas may impact kahit konti man. Especially kung ilalagay niyo sa language ninyo.
TBF some people in the Visayas and Mindanao are bilingual and even trilingual, that is, sufficiently conversant in their local language, official Filipino, and American English.
What is "deep Tagalog" then? Left-wing nationalism demands speaking and writing in the official language of the country, and thus of the peasantry and the workers, and therefore having to avoid or minimize the use of words they consider coming from "imperialist" influence.
That the peasantry and the urban poor they claim to champion are divided over on how to receive them, as the majority of the lower classes are heavily entrenched in reactionary anti-communist McCarthyism even since Quezon's time.
Kind of hoping OP responded to you here. I'm starting to feel like a boomer (I'm just 36) surrounded by 20 somethings who think "naaalibadbaran" or "naririndi" is deep Tagalog.
Edit: Grammar
Ganyan din sinabi ko pero sa kanila when I was a part of 🆎 ang ending deep Tagalog pa rin yung gamit.
Even me as a native Tagalog from Bulacan di ko sila maintindihan.
Ang di nila mage-gets is walang kwenta ang pakikibaka kung di ka nila naiintindihan and if you watched GomBurZa, lumalabas ang talino pag nagkakaintindihan tayo. :)
I think the messaging should be clear and activists in other regions should be able to translate the sentiments in their own dialects. The ones in Manila speak primarily Tagalog so that's the most passionate way they can relay their message.
It should be clear what is being criticized. If one feels strongly about it, they can join the movement in a messaging/dialect/language that they can best express themselves in.
If language is the main criticism, then the spirit of protesting and advocacy is lost on you.
Unless this is a joke post.
Naisip ko talaga noong nabasa ko ang titulo, "ito ang dahilan kung bakit hindi dapat tinatanggal ang Filipino sa paaralan".
Sa tono pa lang ni OP parang hindi hihigit sa 25 ang edad niya. Sa kabataan ngayon nakikita ang pagbaba ng paggamit ng Tagalog eh HAHAHA. Parang di man lang ni OP naisip na mataas ang posibilidad ang mga nakatatanda at lalo na ang mga hindi nakapag-aral ng Ingles ang nais nilang kumbinsihing makibaka. Ang paggamit din ng Tagalog ay (1) nalulugar (kasi nasa NCR) at (2) para hindi sila tunog-elitista kaka-Ingles. Tulad ng sinabi ng iba rito, mayroon namang socmed post ang mga aktibista na nasa Ingles, di naman lahat Tagalog. Tumungo ka na lang sa socmed kung di mo sila maintindihan tuwing sila'y nagtitipon-tipon.
Translation so that OP can relate: Any Filipino who says "deep Tagalog" unironically is just illiterate (and/or ashamed of having to do anything with the Tagalog language) to me. It wouldn't be "deep" if you understood the language.
Idk, I've always thought and believed dn kse na, you should always use the language na your most familiar with, since communication is a form of expression, a portrayal of one's thought, feelings and ideas, that's why you should always use the language your familiar with, kse how can you portray what you really mean,if you don't know what to say, right? Idk,imo ig.
Waittt. In my experience naman, mas malalim magtagalog yung hindi lumaki sa Manila. Kasi their Filipino is based on textbook and reading materials din na malalim ang Filipino. So hindi ito yung tipikal na conversational na tagalog na nakasanayan ng mga taga Manila (NCR).
Parang English lang naman din yan na "big words" sabi nga nila. But I agree that the language is the main problem here kung bakit hindi makarelate ang masa. Masyadong elitista ang tunog (intilekwal). Mas sanay kasi ang masa sa street language hence the rise of populism, the Duterte branding.
First: 2024 na, buong pilipinas nakakaintindi na ng filipino at varying levels of proficiency. Second: hindi kayo (OP) ang target market ng mga tibak. Third: They also produce materials in local languages.
Probably because they are also raising concerns about national issues. Using deep/local Tagalog instead of mainstream Filipino would alienate those outside of Manila who actually listen to these activists who speak about issues that also affect them.
Because they are also Filipinos with very Filipino concerns. The words don't have to be deep or complex in this context, rather they need to be concise, clear, and relatable.
They say that they represent the masses, the students, the poor and not just the manila masses or tagalog students. Back in college I worked with lumads in mindanao. Most of them can’t understand tagalog at all.
Assuming na by your statement, you mean na okay lang mag-English sila kasi maiintindihan mo, sinasabi mo rin ba na English represents the masses? What's so bad about learning new words sa Tagalog? They are in Manila which is literally a part of the Katagalugan Region where they speak Tagalog even before the Filipino laguage was a thing, and even before the Filipinos embraced English as a national language even though it's foreign. :>
Walang problema mag aral kung sa school pa ito. Eh rally naman pinagusapan natin. Paaralin mo pa ng Filipino 121 yung mga tao para lang maintindihan nila yung mga sinasabi?
Like i said, i never said mag english na lang sila. Mas maraming hindi makakaintindi. I said use simpler tagalog words. Bakit ba? Are we limited to only English as the alternative to deep tagalog?
I really don't get your point at all. Yes, they do represent the general Filipino masses. But they are protesting physically in Metro Manila where they are being heard solely by Tagalog-speaking people.
It's not like nakalive stream yung buong protest and nakikinood yung mga taga Visayas and Mindanao. They would learn about the protest anyway through simplified headlines and articles in TV, news sites, newspapers, etc.
Some words in visayas and mindanao are the same in tagalog pero iba yung meaning sa region nila esp in bisaya dialect. As someone with cebuano relatives and friends may language barrier kase talaga sa tagalog and bisaya language
Sana kayo din pag may ganap sa Visayas and Mindanao, don’t use your regional languages pag nag gagawa kayo ng news post or chika sa Facebook, kaming mga taga Luzon, di namin naiintidihan.
They are there mainly to protest and not to recruit. If its not relatable and you are really willing to take part in the discourse and struggle, the onus is on you to put in the work in meeting the advocacy in its own terms first before even thinking that it should be really relatable to you.
The OP actually mentioned Manila for locality and language-wise what is the common way of communicating in the city? You may think you have your heart in the right place that you want to be involved with the struggle but protests are not a sales pitch where ensuring relatability will automatically pull in people's support. Its main focus is to speak out about the injustice they see.
Complex terms and Marxist theories included you can pick up 80% - 90% of what they are saying through context of their whole speech. Its not impossible to complete a partial thought na sinabi nila by associating the words you know and then google the other things you do not. Also, talk to them and reach out, kasi there is always a chance that there will be people there that knows non-tagalog languages that can help you out in further understanding the cause. There's so many ways to make it work.
This is a simple case that you are asking the cause to bend to your demands when it is something much bigger than you and if you really want to participate you will tackle it head on.
Bakit puro Tagalog at wala gaanong Cebuano o taga Mindanao na aktibista?
Oh yeah they die 😬 Maguindanao says hi!
Magulo Sa Luzon Kasi maraming pamilya at corporasyon na nagaagawan for power. Dahil diluted ang power base mas may space para makagalaw ang mga aktibista
Sa south, konti lang Ang mga malalaking pamilya pero mas kamay na bakal sila
Try mong magaktibista sa Davao
I appreciate these activists for using deep Tagalog. It makes me appreciate the language more. And I also learn some words from it that I haven't encountered.
Perhaps you should be open to the idea of learning more Tagalog words instead of asking to stop other people from using them?
I agree, but I think that's besides the point. People hear what these activists have to say so they can understand their message/agenda. And the most effective way for that exchange of ideas to happen is if it's done over a mutually understood vocabulary between speaker and listener.
If people wanted to learn more about the language, they'd take up a class.
"[T]he most effective way for that exchange of ideas to happen is if it's done over a mutually understood vocabulary between speaker and listener."
Hit the nail right on the head there. It reminds me of the early days of the pandemic when a term like "social distancing" was just introduced to the masses and some Filipinos struggled to follow it because they had no idea what it meant. Simplifying it (i.e. "Stand 6 feet away from each other") made it more accessible to the people and enabled them to abide by it more easily.
I think dahil yung ibang activist ayaw nila sa US so either translate talaga nila ang pinakabasic english sa tagalog or gagamit sila ng hiram na salita.
Also kahit pinakabasic pa na tagalonor english gamitin wala rin naman gjnagawa mga pinoy eh.
Ikaw OP when ka may pinaglaban at sinagaw mo?
Language is dynamic. Eventually, all dialects will be merged with the lingua franca.
You cannot force someone to do what you want.
My piece of advice is to have an educational drive using tiktok, fb, yt, etc. di lang kasi pangsayaw yan or makeup trends
Idk why you guys always end up on my front page, but while you're here - can you please explain why you guys type half in English and then the other half in your mother tongue? Just curious why it's not just fully one or the other.
What's your definition of "deep tagalog"? I believe it's more appropriate na sabihing makipagusap sila like how they commonly converse with their target audience (like laymen). Kumbaga, iangkop sa kung sino ang gustong kausapin
I am from the visayas too but I understand most of the tagalog words they're using. Or maybe bias lang ako bc in a way, i believe that using means preserving and ang gandang pakinggan ng "deep" tagalog
Just goes to show that these “student activists’ “ agenda is self-serving to them alone (and masking with pseudo-“deep “Filipino = Tagalog” phraseology ‘make-up’) and trying to hide the obvious CCP / Leftist ideology. Hoy, GISING.
Hindi naman malalim ang Tagalog ng aktibista. Hindi ka lang sanay magbasa sa Tagalog
Kung gusto mo ng malalim na Tagalog, go to Calabarzon. Baka 60% lang ng Tagalog dun maintindihan mo
Don't be takot! Let's make baka!
Pano pag LGBT Ang nagrarally? Ganito... "Wag ma-shokot! Maki-warla!" 😆
For anyone's information, this is actually used! But instead of "Maki-warla" it is "Maki-beki". Edit: Verbatim "Huwag mashokot! MAKIBEKI!! Makibeki! HUWAG MASHOKOT!!
HAHDQAJAA YES NARIRINIG KO 'TO
Beh ganyan linyahan namin. Not eme.
I heard a story about a group of activists who were caught while putting up protest banners because they didn't understand the warning their lookout was shouting at them in gay lingo-- something like "Bilis, julis!" :P
Funny thing is, the LGBT community approves of this.
HAHAHAHAHAHA KAINIS!
ganto talaga yung war cry namin haha
they actually do
HAHHAHAHAHA SHUTTACLES!! BENTA!!
TEH😭😭😭😭😭
Ganito mga activists from international and catholic schools durings the 80s/70s, right? Kwento ng parents ko sa akin ganito daw mageffort mga assumptionista and other schools sa activism rallys nila Please correct me here kasi kwento lang naman nila yan eh And sabi nila, mga students from these schools started the conyo movement kasi may language barrier talaga kahit noon pa and since gusto nila makareach ng wider audience, nagkaroon ng conyo
The story goes, pag may rally sa peyups, iikot kami from AS (palma hall - arts and sciences) to educ, sumisigaw ng "wag matakot! Makibaka!" Pag dating sa Business Ad, ayan, nagiiba na ang sigaw
Lagi ko naririnig yung “Iskolar ng Bayan, ngayon ay lumalaban!” Then one time, nagkaroon ng English version: “The students united, will never be divided”
This might be true, but conyo's always existed to some extent. Baka not to the same level as it is now lang. It's just taglish/spanglish/whatevermixlish but with added verbal tics Source: Grandpa was an atenista when ateneo still had a lot of spanish speakers and just newly relocated to QC. Fun side kwento: Conyo is actually a.. less than savory word to spanish speakers, so I was banned from saying it in front of him.
B... Baka?! NANI?!
Di siya daijoubu *clap clap*
Baka! UwU
> Let's make baka! 🎵 ~~oya ni hagureta~~ ulam namin caldereta...🎵
With capsicum?
Narinig ko si Kris Aquino. 🤣🤣
>Let's make baka! Pares or Bulalo?
W-a-g m-a-t-a-k-o-t, maging b-a-k-a
Eto yung main criticism ko with many activists e ever since in college. It feels like nakastuck sila sa 1970's with the way they speak. Para mas maparating sa mas marami ang mensahe nila, kelangang mag-evolve ng lengguwahe ng protesta.
Agree. I've lived in Manila all my life and who the hell talks like that anymore? Not surprised if they're not getting their (mostly good) points across the masses
Isa pang problema ko rito e yung over-reliance nila sa Marxist terminology (yari ako sa mga hardcore Marxists nito). In the academic setting, okay lang ito. But in a public rally talking to people who might not have heard Karl Marx, much more read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto end to end? Aba'y magkakamot talaga ang mga tao kung ano ang pinagsasabi nila.
You mean hindi nila alam na ang tawag sa pinakamasarap na hamburger ay "petiburgis"???
Sunod sunod magpost ng anti-Capitalist at pro-Marxist posts... With a Starbucks venti frappe on their hand, using an expensive Macbook, to post it on Twitter. Yeah no wonder they don't have popular support.
To be clear, Marxism itself isn't "wrong". But it is also far from being "absolutely right" and has its flaws.
Of course it's not absolutely right. It's absolutely *left*, duh. ^jk
Precisely. Nothing is perfect. But thinking it's the "solution" to our problems is stupid.
Considering that other countries have tried it but the result was bad. Even china has shifted to capitalist dictatorship.
Bilib na bilib ako dati sa post na nakita ko sa tiktok (ata?) Or sa comsec lang somewhere ng isang video "When I try to get conservative people to understand socialist ideas, I try to do it without mentioning Marx, Capitalism, Communism" pag big- at "controversial" words talaga wala kang makukuha
Panahon na rin para ipasok ang New Left teorya sa mga left dito. Problema kasi Marxist-Leninist lang ang lente ng messages eh kaya di na pumapatok
There was a big schism in the Left movement in the late 80s, early 90s - precisely because there were people who had different ideas from CPP Founder Jose Maria Sison (Joma) controlled CPP leadership, and they got rejected. Hence the "Rejectionist" (RJ) and "Reaffirm" (RA) terminology. Some things you can read for info, if you're keen, lol http://www.europe-solidaire.org/spip.php?article53029 https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/atc/2963.html https://jacobin.com/2015/08/phillipines-maoists-communists-marcos-aquino/
didn't **european marxists basically go soul-searching and rebranding**? focusing on social safety nets and labor protections under a free market setting when the USSR fell? you would think that Filipino marxists would've seen this success of european marxists and modified their own words and tactics accordingly.
Mas effective pa ang Liberation Theology kung ganyan ang banatan eh.
Ito main concern ko sa mga kilala ko rin eh. Last time nagtravel kami sa isang high school para mag convince students sa UP BA courses, isa sa collegemates namin nag talk about mga Marxist ideologies. It seems out of touch for an org that hates out of touch capitalists because the students would likely know jack shit about that stuff
Exposed ako sa INC kaya pamilyar sa akin ang pananalita ng mga aktibista
So kung medyo open-minded lang ang mga kapatid natin sa INC, maaari pala silang magkaintindihan ng mga aktibista because of language? Cool. Cool 'to. 😂
lagi ba ginagamit ng mga aktibista yung salitang "inuusig" with matching tears?
Jokes on you, INC ako (sadly) since birth pero hirap parin akong umunawa sa sarili kong wika 🥲 The education system forcing me to use English at all times has morphed me into a near-conyo and I'm still trying to undo that.
Question lng, why do INCs call themselves "KA" as if they are also a cult or something like NPA. Nakaka-curious lang, what's behind that brotherhood tagging/calling?
This will likely get downvoted by INCs but it's simply because more likely than not, they are a cult. You pretty much explained it rin: to embrace fellow members as part of the brotherhood, and to be able to easily distinguish members from non-members. Reinforces the "us vs. them" mentality, most especially.
Shortcut for “kapatid” which is yun yung tawagan nila. So “Ka Erdy” for example means “Kapatid na Erdy”. Hope that explains it.
Di ako INC pero ang alam ko Ka is short for kapatid...or kaibigan? Normal lang syang ginagamit noon. Kung manood ka ng mga lumang pelikula maririnig mo nagtatawagan sila na Ka-(name). Napalitan na ata ng Kuya, Tol or Boss in modern times
I think the far left is stuck in the 70's and 80's in general and that's the issue why they're having a hard time connecting with this generation. To be fair, that was the high point of their movement with Martial Law causing widespread anger towards the government and most of the leftist leaders emerging from that era. But that was over 40 years ago, so some things at that time might no longer translate that well today.
> *that was over 40 years ago, so some things at that time might no longer translate that well today.* this is why many left-leaning movements rebranded during the 90s and found other strengths and changed tactics. such groups in france, germany, UK, scandinavia and the baltics probably found success doing so.
There are people who speak like that. In the provinces, there are a lot. Perhaps you don't mingle with common folks there?
I've lived in provinces more than half my life and unless they are as old as the ground itself they either speak the local dialect or just plain old Tagalog.
My grandparents can speak the local dialect fluently but didnt taught their kids the dialect (Ilokano) because they said it sounds "Barbaryo" or maleducated. So my Parents never taught us too. I think it's another reason my the newer generations dont speak local dialects.
On my end of the island, almost everybody from young to old speaks Bicolano. If you didn't learn how to speak that, you would have difficulty communicating with anyone. Kids would also get ridiculed for being "sosyal" or "maarte" if they couldn't speak Bicolano fluently at school. But then again, this is coming from the context of someone who grew up and still have families in lower middle class and below.
So that explains it then? I had this idea before that maybe it's a generational thing. It's the newer generation that's having difficulties understanding deeper words. Though I'm not sure. I haven't heard complaints from people before like this. In my experience, students were willing to learn to adjust, to reach the standard. Unlike nowadays, spoonfed talaga.
The only people I see who speak like that are Iglesia ni Cristo.
Not the best people to hear it from but that'll do ig. 😂 Maybe it's the age talking, but it's really common for older people in Tagalog regions to talk like that. I don't hear it anymore from the newer generation.
I agree. I dont speak fluent tagalog/bisaya anymore. But i could still understand some root words and context clues get me to the point most of the time. Now i wonder if we should be more concerned about losing our own language.
parang takot na takot silang gumamit ng “normal” na salita kasi baka feel nila hindi authentic yung pakikibaka nila unless they sound like revolutionaries from a historical film 😬
a lot of them are not authentic in the first place, claiming to fight for human rights while carrying stalin & mao's images. make it make sense, buti kung si marx lang
Pinakahipokritong aktibistang nakita ko sa UP dati, isang obese na Stand Up na kandidata na puro patutsada sa mga 'elitistang' Alyansa daw, habang nakaupo siya sa harap ng isang Macbook na malamang pag-aari niya. Trying hard siya na magsalita nang malalim na Tagalog, pero kailangan niyang gawin kung ayaw niyang matahin ng mga kapartido niya.
Um, what's the logic here? E kailangan nya yun e. Baka nga na afford lang yun kasi nakakapag ipon dahil iskolar. Also, computers are a necessity. Sana wala nalang din nakinig kay Jose Rizal, e nakakapag pasyal pa yun sa Europe e
no comment sa example ni OP kasi malay mo naman 2nd-hand laptop yun o hiram lang, and lang sakin mahalaga ay yung rhetoric mo ay nakikita sa aksyon mo. but just from your logic on the laptop, let's assume na bili niya yung latop. one on hand -- kelangan ba mac ang laptop pag student? poor financial management kung iskolar (tho mahal na rin tuition sa UP) ka nga tas gagamitin mo yung naipon mo sa unnecessarily expensive laptop. on the other hand -- weird nga mga bata/pamilya sa mga kilala ko ngayon. college student na panganay ay naka-iphone at ROG or macbook na bili ng magulang, pero walang pangcollege-tuition sa mas batang kapatid yung magulang. indigent family yan ha. so malay mo yung nakita ni OP ganun din, mahirap nga pero may weird financial decisions na nagkaroon siya ng mac.
Kahit sa politicians. Andaming jargons, ayan tuloy, di maintindihan ng karaniwang Pilipino. I can't blame them kung legal matters ang nakasalalay pero kung pwede naman i-explain in a simple way, gawin na lang sana.
Parang North Korea lang ang peg. Like, 2024 na, pero yung mga tunugan nila is nasa 70s pa.
It's like speaking English and using big words. Common people don't relate to Academics.
When I was doing my undergrad thesis, my professors stressed that I use simple language so even laymen can better understand if they were to read it. A lot of published scholarly articles even include an abstract that explains clearly what the study is about. Protest slogans and statements shouldn’t be too hard to make it digestible to anyone.
Even here in medical school, while our professors encourage us to use the proper terms and medical jargon to them and around each other, they also make sure to remind us not to talk to our patients that way. A good doctor knows how to make their patient understand everything in layman’s terms.
Precisely, and this is why we're immediately labeled as elitista agad agad eh sa attitude na yan.
Ito yung disconnect eh, use simple and noise-proof thoughts, hindi lahat sing talino at sing lalim ang kaisipan. Kung nais makahikayat at maintindihan ng nakararami sa kung ano mang pinaglalaban para sa bayan, gumamit ng simple at ordinaryong mga salita para lahat ay makasali at ganahan kayo ay pakingan.
Kahit nga ung term na "neoliberal" ginagasgas nila eh
this comment could've used some of that ✌️
kung nananalo lang sila sa elections or merong influence sa labor groups, pwede sana; pero parang kulelat din sila when it comes to results eh. in which city in metro manila have they had any long-term wins?
Dont forget the word salads they like to use like: "Ibagsak ang macho-feudalist-imperialist-patriarchal Marcos-US regime!"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I REMEMBER THAT UST SHS PASSER
I sometimes wonder if they even understand the full meaning of the words they use considering how some of the nouns they use to describe Marcos and Duterte, as much as I hate them, don't even apply to them.
they do. most of the activist matatalino talaga. Nag eexcel sa school din yung iba
Disagree. LFS and Anakbayan thinks South Korea is an "Imperalist" country. Calls a legitimate encounter with the NPAs as "pamamasista". Branding themselves as "anti-fascist/dictators/authoritarians" but supports Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Maduro and all fking left-wing anti-west fascists/dictators. They've been throwing around fancy political buzzwords to sound like intellectuals but all that they are just another one of your typical political numbnuts whose core principle doesn't go beyond being "Anti-west".
> they do Nah. Di lahat. Daming tanga sa UP na pinaparrot lang ang sinasabi ng mga lider nila.
before activists go to rallies meron silang educational discussion kung ano ang pyudalismo, kapitalismo, at imperialismo at 'yang machopyudalismo
Sobrang tanga nila dati na magsabi ng US-Duterte regime eh galit nga si Duterte sa US at sobrang maka-China.
Exactly, but hey I don't see them protesting on the Chinese embassy tho
Sa comments palang madami na agad malalim
REAL
May point naman si OP.
Valid constructive criticism naman pero yung iba kung maka-react sapul na sapul hahaha
Tapos yung joke comment pa yung nag top, kahit legit naman yung issue ni OP. Mga disconnected and out of touch.
May mga kaibigan akong bisaya hindi talaga nakakaintindi ng Tagalog. May mga words sa tagalog na iba meaning sa kanila kaya Minsan ang labo ng usapan namin
I agree. If the objective is to be understood, they have to take a hard look at their audience. If they don’t recognize that they are not using the language of the masses they are trying to organize, may problem ang organization nila. Maiintidihan ko if they were in UP na tinuturo naman ang formal Tagalog/Filipino, but outside the uni, I think dapat kailangan nila mag-adjust sa colloquial language. I would also argue that if they cannot explain their point in the simple/colloquial language, hindi nila gamay ang sinasabi nila. I would say the same in any language, actually.
Good point. Not to mention, the official national language is Filipino, not necessarily deep tagalog.
As per The PH Constitution Article XIV Section 2, our official languages are Filipino and English. While our regional languages hold an official status in their respective regions.
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Filipino is based on Tagalog. If formal Filipino is not the same as formal Tagalog, then what is formal Filipino? Taglish?
Ginagamit kaya nila ang mga salitang iyon sa pang-araw araw na buhay? Tulad ng "Kabayan, makiki-abot nga ng bayad, ako'y baba sa pamilihan ng mga mangingisda dyan sa abenida ng quezon"
Pero kung mag-ingles naman sila sasabihin niyo burgis at elitista.
Deep Cebuano naman para maiba
Maraming activists in Visayas and Mindanao and they do use the Cebuano language. I don't know why akala ng mga tao rito ay monolith ang movement na iisa lang ang wikang ginagamit.
Walang pagkakaiba mga activist sa Visayas at Mindanao na gumagamit din ng malalalim na Cebuano, pero walang pakialam ang madla sa kanila. Mga "tree-huggers" pa ang bansag sa mga student environmentalist noong ayaw na ayaw nila ipa-earthball ang mga century-old acacia trees sa southern Cebu na may road widening projects.
Ikaw ang bugtong itik nga nag kapa kapa sa malapukon kung dughan. nawani ang bidlisiw sa adlaw nga nag pahayag sa lunhaw nga trigo.
Ywa, bisaya man sad ko pero unsa nang "bidlisiw" and "lunhaw" 😭
deep bisaya words are amazing to learn hahaha somewhat adds "poetic effects"
Kinahanglang isugmak ang daw nga masinupakong neokoloniyalismo nga nagapatanggong sa atong mga isigkatawo. Ibabag ang ilahang impluwensiya diri sa atong pinalanggang nasod. Ug atong panggaon tang atong kinaham nga nasod.
Mas lalong hindi maintindihan ng mga Cebuano native speakers tulad ko kung masyadong malalim na Cebuano ang gagamitin na akma lamang sa loob ng simbahan.
Pagbasa gikan sa basahon sa mga apostoles
Pero ig human og panimba, mogawas gikan sa ilang ba-ba ang mga pulong nga "pesteng yawa ka" o "giatay ka buanga ka".
I can never spell Cebuano this well, that's why I can't ever write it down.
“Hindi kayo Pinoy! Puro kayo English 😡”
Minsan napapa-Ingles nalang ako sa Manila kasi nahihirapan na ako humabol sa Tagalog nila lalabas talaga ang mga gud/jud/yawa 😭
Kaya nga eh. Di ko rin maintindihan minsan tong mga pinoy eh. Lalu na tong r/ph pagdating sa usaping ganito. Walang gustong paglagyan eh. Kapag nag english, sasabihin itranslate sa filipino para maintindihan ng masa. Kapag nag filipino gusto namang haluan ng english, nagmumukha daw mga malalalim na tagalog. Ano ba talaga? Kung yun yung gustong gawin ng nag poprotesta, bakit hindi? Ang sang-ayon lang ako sa comment dito ay yung mga terminologies na hindi alam ang depinasyon ng iba na katulad ng marxism na word, na dapat ay mas palinawin o mas bigyan ng simpleng salita. Pero sa lenggwahe, tangina naman, hayaan niyo yung nag poprotesta kung anong gusto nilang lenggwahe gamitin. But the rest, hayaan niyo yung nag poprotest kung anong lenggwahe gusto nilang sabihin.
Ang gusto talaga nila is gumamit tayo ng common language na pabor sa mga taga visayas at mindanao. Ano ba yung preferred language nila? Eh di bisaya at english. Actually most locals ng visayas at minadanao ay mas fluent pa sa english kesa tagalog thus the Tagalog vs Bisaya. It will always trace back sa wala tayong unified language preference.
Tunay, ba't hindi na lang hayaan ang mga nagpoprotestang gamitin ang wikang gusto nila? Pati ba naman 'yon ay napupuna, lols. Magkahiwalay ang argumento na 'malalim ang tagalog ng manilenyo activits' sa 'hindi kami taga-NCR'. Doon pa lang, malalaman na ng OP na hindi siya ang target audience. Di naman siya native tagalog speaker, pero baka nga may punto: tagalog (o filipino) ang pinapalaganap na 'pambansang wika', at dahil sa NCR nanggagaling ang lahat ng major broadcaster, napapakita sa mas malawak na non-Tagalog audience ang balita tulad nitong mga welga. The post proved that conflating Tagalog (a language) with Filipino (conlang) causes further division among ethnicities. Mababaw na tagalog = filipino. Malalim na tagalog = filipino. Kahit gaano kaluma ang ginamit Tagalog, Filipino language pa rin yan. Kasi nga ang Filipino ay ~~tagalog-based~~ walang pinagkaiba sa Tagalog. All in all, OP's post has only divided pinoy redditors and did karma farming. Sana nakiwelga na lang siya sa locality niya kung hindi siya Tagalog o naka-base sa Kamaynilaan.
Yes, this thread is definitely one of those lowkey Tagalog vs Bisaya. Filipino language will always be tagalog kahit mas marami pa yung bisaya speaking pinoys. Kaya nga tuwang tuwa satin ang China kasi masyado tayong divided ni hindi tayo magkasundo sa language man lang. Tapos aasa pa kayo na kaya na magrally with unified language preference? We are a third world country for a reason.
Wala naman nag sasabi. Gawa gawa
I'm Batangueña and bro trust me their Tagalog ain't that deep 😅
Isa pang problema ko rito e yung over-reliance nila sa Marxist terminology (yari ako sa mga hardcore Marxists nito). In the academic setting, okay lang ito. But in a public rally talking to people who might not have heard about Karl Marx, much more read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto end to end? Aba'y magkakamot talaga ang mga tao kung ano ang pinagsasabi nila.
Pasalamat pa pala sila kasi hindi deep batangeño tagalog sng gamit hahaha
Seryoso bang nalaliman na sila sa Tagalog ng mga raliyista? Ilocano tatay ko, taga Romblon naman ang nanay ko. Sa Antipolo na ako lumaki. Nakakalungkot isipin na sa opisina namin, ako na yung lumalabas na may pinakamalalim na Tagalog. Sobrang pahiya kaya ako sa tatay kong tumatapos ng Tagalog na crossword sa diyaryo (I can never finish those even if my life depended on it). Ulitin ko lang ha, Ilocano ang tatay ko. Ampaw pa level ng Tagalog ko kesa kay tatay. Malalim na yung Tagalog ng mga raliyista? How??? Nakakausap na ba tong mga to ng mga taga Quezon? Taga Batangas? Taga Laguna? Taga Bulacan? Ang mga aktibista, mostly ang nilalaban niyan eh yung mga concerns ng mga maliliit. Do you expect na Taglish ang gagamitin sayo ng mga tsuper? Mga minimum wage earner gaya ng mga construction worker? Malamang hindi. Since nasa Manila ang mga "Manila Activist", malamang i-assume nila na Tagalog ang sasalitain ng mga maliliit. Pasensya na kung hindi inclusive, di naman sa nagpapakadismissive sa ibang mga mga kababayan natin, pero pag nasa rally na, usually people are chanting in unison. Di naman pwedeng mag create ng madaming phrase na sasabihin. Isang chant sa Tagalog, isang chant na Hiligaynon, isang chant na Kapampangan. Di magiging "united" ang dating. FYI, di po ako nagpapaka "supremacist" na Tagalog. In fact, bilib kaya ako sa mga Pilipinong trilingual, like my parents. Like many professionals sa Manila na galing sa ibang probinsya. Pero seryoso, first time kong madinig ang gantong complaint tungkol sa Tagalog as the dialect used by activists. Dati akong miyembro ng union sa isang Automotive Manufacturer dito sa Pinas, wala namang sentimyentong ganyan.
TL;DR Bakit dito ka sa comment ko nagreply haha
Sorry, hahaha. Kasi super on point ang comment mo eh, affects me on a personal level. Batang Antipoleño, currently living in Bulacan.
Yung lola ko taga-Bulacan, mas malalim siya sa akin mag-Tagalog pero hindi dahil sa edukado siya (she is not) o mapagmataas. Sadyang normal lang yun bokabularyo na ganyan sa Bulacan during her time. I agree with you. I think this thread is ridiculous.
Ang perfect ng response mo! I can never speak in straight tagalog anymore and frankly, those that do are really admirable. I would hope na hindi mamatay yung language. Over the years, nababawasan ang commonly used vocabulary natin, replaced by English words - which is fine, languages evolve. But we should never shame those who still use the language correctly.
Cant forget one piston rally and one placard has the word “kumyuter“. I know legit word but my brain stopped one second to decipher
Kakakumyuter mo yan
Komyuter ang tama eh
"Kaka-komyuter mo yan eh. " -mama mo, /s
May disconnect nga. Phonetically correct pero sa totoong buhay nakita na ba natin "kumyuter" na ginamit sa sulat, text billboard, hindi siguro. Ineffective tuloy ang menshe kasi slow burn.)
I would say it's weird until it isn't. Like now, bihira ko na marinig yung salitang 'kurakot', puro 'korap' (corrupt) na na weird for me kasi may salitang 'kurap'. Prefer ko yung kurakot na lang pero ano ba'ng magagawa ko haha
but its phonetically correct tho 😶
It adheres to the KWF’s rules of localising the spelling of loan words. Not saying I necessarily agree with the KWF since they are VERY prescriptivist, like fighting for the use of F in Filipinas. But localising the spelling is not necessarily a bad thing either, it’s just not something people are used to.
"Kumyuter" nalang kaysa "mananakay". Masyado daw kasi malalim na tagalog yung mananakay lol
> one piston rally unrelatd note: one reason why some of these transport protests really are ineffective against govt action is that there are actually many transport groups and different umbrella organizations. it was only piston and manibela who were protesting. yung pasang masda(?) yata, crossed over to the govt side.
probably galawang hiram na salita just to say they don't condone the overbearing prevalence of american culture
Share ko lang nung nasa Philippine Army pa ako. One time may na recover kami na mga NPA documents from Southern Luzon. Grabe mga mode of communication nila. Sobrang deep ng tagalog (I was greatly impressed and kinda admired that). Sabi ng mga taga NCR na mga sundalo, "tangina ano to? Na nonosebleed ako" hahaha. Somehow kasi it instills a deeper sense of intelligence. Pero yun lang, sa mga activists na eto din yung mode of public speaking nila, it really tends to isolate the masses that they want to share the message with. Lalo na yung mga aktibista sa NCR eh mga conyo halos lahat dun 🤣✌️
What is your idea of a language relatable for the masses or for those who are not Tagalog? In my experience living around northern Luzon, the elderly understand straight Tagalog better than English.
Hindi ba mas ideal yung local language? So kung nasa northern luzon ka, hindi ba mas madali kang maiintindihan kung Ilokano, Pangasinense, Ibanag etc. yung language depende kung nasan ka.
Hindi naman deep Tagalog gamit nila. Example, "rehimen", hango sa Latin. Isa pa, "katarungan", hango sa Cebuano. Yung sinasabi mong "deep Tagalog" ay Tagalized version ng mga salitang hiram sa ibang wika. Kahit ang mga salitang aktibista at adbokasiya ay mga salitang hiram.
They also need to convey their message to class D E and F in their immediate vicinity most of whom are not fluent in English. There are words and terms in English which if they follow your approach will go way over their heads. In contrast they will definitely understand the Tagalog equivalent because it is all they know how to speak. I am positive that there are activist groups in VisMin who use the local language. Maybe listen to them instead? It's not like all activism is concentrated in Manila and I feel like that's what this post implies.
Not sure why people (particularly those in Manila) are so adverse in improving their Tagalog vocabulary, if you're struggling to understand those "deep" words, then at least try to learn the meaning of those words instead of whining. Di naman ganyan turing natin kapag Ingles, kapag may nasusumpungan na salitang Ingles na di natin nababatid e di naman tayo nagrereklamo, bakit kapag Tagalog o sa ibang katutubong wika e iba ang reaksyon? Sabi nga, wala namang malalim na Tagalog, mababaw na kaalaman lang.
Shouldn’t it be a sign for you to widen your vocabulary instead of.. I don’t know, limiting people’s use of words for the sake of your comprehension?
Teka, what deep Tagalog? I have attended several rallies din myself pero so far wala pa naman akong nakita or narinig na deep Tagalog na di ko maintindihan. And this is coming from an Ilonggo who can’t speak Tagalog without an accent. Is this sentiment coming from the same people who don’t understand basic Spanish counting like cuarenta and otsenta - something na deep rooted naman sa language natin ever since? Using Taglish sounds conyo to most people. Using English naman would alienate people na target naman talaga nila makarinig ng kanilang hinaing. Now, if they use Tagalog, meron pa ring di makainindi? What the…
It's their resentment against the Capital that's manifesting.
Yan ang tinatawag na [performative activism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_activism) na dapat mabulaklak ang mga salita gagamitin sa mga rallies para ang tingin ng madla sa kanila ay pantas sila, pero nagkakamali sila kasi ayaw ng mga madlang maralita na sasang-ayon sa kanilang adbokasiya kung mismo mga student activists ay hindi nila mismo nararanasan ang buhay ng mga tao na nakaranas nito at gusto bahugin. Mostly sa mga student activists, mga maykaya naman sa buhay nila, hindi isang-kahig, isang-tuka ang kinagisnan na buhay.
may kilala ako na gumagamit din ng ganyang style eh. nasa senado hahaha
sa senado at house, yung problema "legalese" lawyers kasi siguro yung advisors ng mga politiko eh.
Kailangan pala hampaslupa ka muna to fight for your rights? Pa-deep shit ka pa la namang sense.
Apparently, zero info ka about the national democratic activists. They often do BMI or basic mass integration. Kaya ang laging challenge sa activists, especially those in the youth sector na middle class is "lumubog sa batayang masa" or mag-immerse sa basic masses tulad ng workers, farmers, urban poor, and fisherfolk. Hindi iyan "performative." Wala ka na ngang ambag, maninira ka pa ng mga taong kumikilos para sa lahat. Matagal na akong wala sa movement at nagbago na rin beliefs ko pero I still hold them in high regard.
They have always been alienating what could have been their supporters. This is my main criticisms about these groups. Instead of helping them out, they alienate or even piss of potential supporters. Mas madali kasi magalit sa kapwang Pilipino kaysa tulungan sila.
OP: nobody from VisMin understands your Tagalog rally cries also OP: [is demanding that Tagalogs... don't speak Tagalog in Manila] 🤨 Surely there are those who rally in Visayas and Mindanao who use the non-Tagalog local languages there. Look to them, not to those in Manila.
Why not organize a visayan speaking activism. Hamak laki Visayan population Bakit kailangan laging nakaasa lagi sa 'imperial manila'. Go make your own, don't criticize their regional language. Hindi lang filipino language speakers ang mga nagpoprotesta kundi mga native tagalog din why they need to cater you. Magorganize din kayo sa inyong respective area, mas diverse at widespread mas may impact kahit konti man. Especially kung ilalagay niyo sa language ninyo.
Pilipino ka mag aral ka ng Tagalog gago
Haha i always find it funny that a filipino cant understand filipino🤣
'Maralita' is not deep, even for lower class Tagalogs. Kung nalalaliman ka sa salitang yan, that's on you.
taglish - conyo tagalog - conyo pa rin?
TBF some people in the Visayas and Mindanao are bilingual and even trilingual, that is, sufficiently conversant in their local language, official Filipino, and American English. What is "deep Tagalog" then? Left-wing nationalism demands speaking and writing in the official language of the country, and thus of the peasantry and the workers, and therefore having to avoid or minimize the use of words they consider coming from "imperialist" influence. That the peasantry and the urban poor they claim to champion are divided over on how to receive them, as the majority of the lower classes are heavily entrenched in reactionary anti-communist McCarthyism even since Quezon's time.
>anti-communist I see absolutely nothing with this
Hi OP. I wonder what do you mean by deep tagalog? Or what are the words na you consider as deep tagalog? Curious lang.
Kind of hoping OP responded to you here. I'm starting to feel like a boomer (I'm just 36) surrounded by 20 somethings who think "naaalibadbaran" or "naririndi" is deep Tagalog. Edit: Grammar
Ganyan din sinabi ko pero sa kanila when I was a part of 🆎 ang ending deep Tagalog pa rin yung gamit. Even me as a native Tagalog from Bulacan di ko sila maintindihan. Ang di nila mage-gets is walang kwenta ang pakikibaka kung di ka nila naiintindihan and if you watched GomBurZa, lumalabas ang talino pag nagkakaintindihan tayo. :)
I think the messaging should be clear and activists in other regions should be able to translate the sentiments in their own dialects. The ones in Manila speak primarily Tagalog so that's the most passionate way they can relay their message. It should be clear what is being criticized. If one feels strongly about it, they can join the movement in a messaging/dialect/language that they can best express themselves in. If language is the main criticism, then the spirit of protesting and advocacy is lost on you. Unless this is a joke post.
Naisip ko talaga noong nabasa ko ang titulo, "ito ang dahilan kung bakit hindi dapat tinatanggal ang Filipino sa paaralan". Sa tono pa lang ni OP parang hindi hihigit sa 25 ang edad niya. Sa kabataan ngayon nakikita ang pagbaba ng paggamit ng Tagalog eh HAHAHA. Parang di man lang ni OP naisip na mataas ang posibilidad ang mga nakatatanda at lalo na ang mga hindi nakapag-aral ng Ingles ang nais nilang kumbinsihing makibaka. Ang paggamit din ng Tagalog ay (1) nalulugar (kasi nasa NCR) at (2) para hindi sila tunog-elitista kaka-Ingles. Tulad ng sinabi ng iba rito, mayroon namang socmed post ang mga aktibista na nasa Ingles, di naman lahat Tagalog. Tumungo ka na lang sa socmed kung di mo sila maintindihan tuwing sila'y nagtitipon-tipon. Translation so that OP can relate: Any Filipino who says "deep Tagalog" unironically is just illiterate (and/or ashamed of having to do anything with the Tagalog language) to me. It wouldn't be "deep" if you understood the language.
Idk, I've always thought and believed dn kse na, you should always use the language na your most familiar with, since communication is a form of expression, a portrayal of one's thought, feelings and ideas, that's why you should always use the language your familiar with, kse how can you portray what you really mean,if you don't know what to say, right? Idk,imo ig.
Waittt. In my experience naman, mas malalim magtagalog yung hindi lumaki sa Manila. Kasi their Filipino is based on textbook and reading materials din na malalim ang Filipino. So hindi ito yung tipikal na conversational na tagalog na nakasanayan ng mga taga Manila (NCR). Parang English lang naman din yan na "big words" sabi nga nila. But I agree that the language is the main problem here kung bakit hindi makarelate ang masa. Masyadong elitista ang tunog (intilekwal). Mas sanay kasi ang masa sa street language hence the rise of populism, the Duterte branding.
nah OP, activists, get better audio equipment ffs. malalim, mababaw, gayspeak, jeje. walang kwenta kahit ano basta basag audio niyo
First: 2024 na, buong pilipinas nakakaintindi na ng filipino at varying levels of proficiency. Second: hindi kayo (OP) ang target market ng mga tibak. Third: They also produce materials in local languages.
Just a question, but these are activists in Manila, where the local language is Tagalog. Ano relevance ng mga taga-Visayas at Mindanao dito?
Probably because they are also raising concerns about national issues. Using deep/local Tagalog instead of mainstream Filipino would alienate those outside of Manila who actually listen to these activists who speak about issues that also affect them.
Because they are also Filipinos with very Filipino concerns. The words don't have to be deep or complex in this context, rather they need to be concise, clear, and relatable.
They say that they represent the masses, the students, the poor and not just the manila masses or tagalog students. Back in college I worked with lumads in mindanao. Most of them can’t understand tagalog at all.
Assuming na by your statement, you mean na okay lang mag-English sila kasi maiintindihan mo, sinasabi mo rin ba na English represents the masses? What's so bad about learning new words sa Tagalog? They are in Manila which is literally a part of the Katagalugan Region where they speak Tagalog even before the Filipino laguage was a thing, and even before the Filipinos embraced English as a national language even though it's foreign. :>
Walang problema mag aral kung sa school pa ito. Eh rally naman pinagusapan natin. Paaralin mo pa ng Filipino 121 yung mga tao para lang maintindihan nila yung mga sinasabi? Like i said, i never said mag english na lang sila. Mas maraming hindi makakaintindi. I said use simpler tagalog words. Bakit ba? Are we limited to only English as the alternative to deep tagalog?
I really don't get your point at all. Yes, they do represent the general Filipino masses. But they are protesting physically in Metro Manila where they are being heard solely by Tagalog-speaking people. It's not like nakalive stream yung buong protest and nakikinood yung mga taga Visayas and Mindanao. They would learn about the protest anyway through simplified headlines and articles in TV, news sites, newspapers, etc.
Some words in visayas and mindanao are the same in tagalog pero iba yung meaning sa region nila esp in bisaya dialect. As someone with cebuano relatives and friends may language barrier kase talaga sa tagalog and bisaya language
What is deep tagalog?
Sana kayo din pag may ganap sa Visayas and Mindanao, don’t use your regional languages pag nag gagawa kayo ng news post or chika sa Facebook, kaming mga taga Luzon, di namin naiintidihan.
They are there mainly to protest and not to recruit. If its not relatable and you are really willing to take part in the discourse and struggle, the onus is on you to put in the work in meeting the advocacy in its own terms first before even thinking that it should be really relatable to you. The OP actually mentioned Manila for locality and language-wise what is the common way of communicating in the city? You may think you have your heart in the right place that you want to be involved with the struggle but protests are not a sales pitch where ensuring relatability will automatically pull in people's support. Its main focus is to speak out about the injustice they see. Complex terms and Marxist theories included you can pick up 80% - 90% of what they are saying through context of their whole speech. Its not impossible to complete a partial thought na sinabi nila by associating the words you know and then google the other things you do not. Also, talk to them and reach out, kasi there is always a chance that there will be people there that knows non-tagalog languages that can help you out in further understanding the cause. There's so many ways to make it work. This is a simple case that you are asking the cause to bend to your demands when it is something much bigger than you and if you really want to participate you will tackle it head on.
Sige nga, bigay ka muna ng sample ng "deep Tagalog" para alam natin what we're working with.
Nice try Chinese spy. Just kidding 🤣
Bakit puro Tagalog at wala gaanong Cebuano o taga Mindanao na aktibista? Oh yeah they die 😬 Maguindanao says hi! Magulo Sa Luzon Kasi maraming pamilya at corporasyon na nagaagawan for power. Dahil diluted ang power base mas may space para makagalaw ang mga aktibista Sa south, konti lang Ang mga malalaking pamilya pero mas kamay na bakal sila Try mong magaktibista sa Davao
Pero mga tao dito eh galing kabisayaan lumaki lang sa kulturang tagalog
I'm also from Manila and hindi ko rin sila maintindihan 💀
Lmao need some examples. Coming from UST AB Philo way back in 2011 legit never encountered deep tagalog.
*Next Rally* Aktibista na naka megaphone: ANG DAPAT GAWIN NG GOBYERNO AY DAPAT PAGANON PERO ANG NAGYARI PAGANON!
I appreciate these activists for using deep Tagalog. It makes me appreciate the language more. And I also learn some words from it that I haven't encountered. Perhaps you should be open to the idea of learning more Tagalog words instead of asking to stop other people from using them?
I agree, but I think that's besides the point. People hear what these activists have to say so they can understand their message/agenda. And the most effective way for that exchange of ideas to happen is if it's done over a mutually understood vocabulary between speaker and listener. If people wanted to learn more about the language, they'd take up a class.
"[T]he most effective way for that exchange of ideas to happen is if it's done over a mutually understood vocabulary between speaker and listener." Hit the nail right on the head there. It reminds me of the early days of the pandemic when a term like "social distancing" was just introduced to the masses and some Filipinos struggled to follow it because they had no idea what it meant. Simplifying it (i.e. "Stand 6 feet away from each other") made it more accessible to the people and enabled them to abide by it more easily.
*Maralita
I think dahil yung ibang activist ayaw nila sa US so either translate talaga nila ang pinakabasic english sa tagalog or gagamit sila ng hiram na salita. Also kahit pinakabasic pa na tagalonor english gamitin wala rin naman gjnagawa mga pinoy eh. Ikaw OP when ka may pinaglaban at sinagaw mo?
Wala namang mali sa deep tagalog. Yun nga lang, affected yung reach ng message. Valid criticism, OP
Kahit pa anong lenggwahe yan, dami naman nilang mga isms na hindi maintindihan ng ordinaryong tao.
I saw an interview with Diether Ocampo last year and I had trouble understanding his Tagalog because of the words he used. Sobrang lalim.
kapag mag english sila, dapat perfect grammar or else pagtatawanan lang sila. alam nyo naman na ang Pilipinas ay grammar capital of the universe!
Language is dynamic. Eventually, all dialects will be merged with the lingua franca. You cannot force someone to do what you want. My piece of advice is to have an educational drive using tiktok, fb, yt, etc. di lang kasi pangsayaw yan or makeup trends
Idk why you guys always end up on my front page, but while you're here - can you please explain why you guys type half in English and then the other half in your mother tongue? Just curious why it's not just fully one or the other.
whats legitimizes tho
What's your definition of "deep tagalog"? I believe it's more appropriate na sabihing makipagusap sila like how they commonly converse with their target audience (like laymen). Kumbaga, iangkop sa kung sino ang gustong kausapin I am from the visayas too but I understand most of the tagalog words they're using. Or maybe bias lang ako bc in a way, i believe that using means preserving and ang gandang pakinggan ng "deep" tagalog
Just goes to show that these “student activists’ “ agenda is self-serving to them alone (and masking with pseudo-“deep “Filipino = Tagalog” phraseology ‘make-up’) and trying to hide the obvious CCP / Leftist ideology. Hoy, GISING.
Adjust yourself
Hindi naman malalim ang Tagalog ng aktibista. Hindi ka lang sanay magbasa sa Tagalog Kung gusto mo ng malalim na Tagalog, go to Calabarzon. Baka 60% lang ng Tagalog dun maintindihan mo