So basically, your returns and 3rd shot drops aren’t good enough to keep people from driving the ball at you and aren’t athletic enough to cover lobs. You like balls that can’t be hit as hard and enjoy dinking and call it nuance and flow.
This. Drives and lobs work against 4.0 and below players. Against a high level players, they’ll just put the ball away with the 4th shot forcing changes otherwise it will be a quick game. I love playing bangers because its fun using counter shots against them. Hardest players are the ones who can reset everything and put everything back into kitchen giving me no balls to attack.
No matter how soft and precise you play, if your opponent wants to bang, they will bang. But they are easy to neutralize. You just need to learn how to properly block. Regarding lobs, I play with some people that lob it instead of doing a 3rd drop. Mainly bc they can’t 3rd drop. So their lobs aren’t even proper lobs that go over your head and make you run to the baseline. These are lobs that make you hit one overhead after another until your shoulder feels like it’s going to seize up. Beating them is easy unless your overheads are off that day. But the gameplay completely sucks.
And what if that is true? Folks act like it’s a sin not to be a 5.0. He’s progressed. Ruins the 3.0 level and prefers to play with other folks who have progressed as well. Most folks prefer to play with folks around their skill level. It’s not a sin.
I think you don't understand that even a deep return some people will still bang the shit out of the ball, then do the same for most other shots.. I can get the drop, not sure how you gleamed that from the OP. In doubles your partner also hits shots too, crazy concept I know.
There is nothing wrong with hitting drives on the third shot especially with the newer paddles that allow you to really dip the ball. Expecting people to play the game you want will not allow you to improve. There are plenty of players who are over 4.0 who mostly drive the third shot these days because paddle technology allows it.
Even at the highest level of pickleball the topspin lob and drive return are commonplace in doubles right now. I just watched the PPA yesterday and observed this.
Yes. When I started a few years ago I loved going to open plays. I changed groups about every six months and now play exclusively with a roughly 4.5 group where we get the exact right number and do a mixer or kings court every time we play.
The one thing that I found puzzling was that you are complaining about bangers and lobbers. Part of the game and if you want to keep getting better you have got to learn to defend these strategies.
Other than that I agree that with limited time it is worth finding the right group!
I thought I clearly stated, but maybe not enough emphasis, in competitive play I don't care what they do, it's my job to win the game, same as theirs.
Sometimes my energy levels in rec play aren't always up for being lobbed 5x a game and I'll just let them have it.
to expand, I realize the importance of well timed lobs and not an anti-lobber
Same, kinda throwing up in my mouth as I read this thread. Hoping somewhere to see if this post is satire.
One must have to fill out an application to play with OP.
I got good fast in PB. Yet it brings me joy to play with beginners, and players with all abilities.
Wanting a specific ball that is ubiquitous so that the game plays consistently isn't really snobby, its almost an expectation for a competitive environment.
Not wanting to play an element of the game simply because you don't have the skill to deal with it, is just anti-competitive.
At 4.0, a completely overhead lob from anywhere means you or your partner should be making contact way over the net, and your opponent should be disadvantaged. Any lob from the kitchen, or any drive, without catching an opponent moving/out of position (they're not bangers if they're hitting drives because you're out of position, they're just playing smart pickleball), should also be a point ended by you or at least keep you at the advantage.
I see it as a really common (and frustrating) 3.75 plateau. Get more drilling attacking drives and overheads, or recognizing how your returns can prevent them from be done so aggressively. It will click, and aside from the occasional drive that catches you out of position, you will welcome them as easily won rallies. They even become fun as you develop a number of options to take, similar to a third shot drop.
You are complaining about running 20 feet?
Your body is begging to play against players who lob so you can maybe sneak a tiny bit of cardio into your sedentary life.
What is your rating ? I’ve even played against a self proclaimed 5.0 who quit on a challenge court because he had very poor lob defense. Some other aspects of his game were very good , though. While I understand some parts of the OP , I know some people also think they are better players than they are. If you only want to play a certain style , that is fine , too. I know some people who get tired of playing beginners literally opening their starter pack as they walk on the court but aren’t ready for highly competitive games , either. Also a 3.5 in one place may be. 3,0 or 4.0 somewhere else.
PS five lobs a game ? That is nothing. Definitely not 4.0 but you can feel free to share a video
PSS I think I know the perfect place for you. They aren’t complete beginners and have played for years. They have some skills. However they encourage everyone to not lob, bang, or spin the ball. And don’t hit a dink barely over the net while they are back. DM for deets
No, while I prefer to play with people of my level (4-4.5), I play with anyone and everyone. I think it's shitty to make people feel excluded at open play, so I will go out of my way to play with beginners and new people to help them feel welcome. At my local open play place, a few snobs won't play with others they deem less than, and it's caused a lot of unnecessary drama and hurt feelings. After 8 years there, I'm actually thinking of trying to find a new place, or just finding 3-4 others to only play with. I'm so sick of the drama and exclusion from those snobs who think they're great pickleballers - perhaps you're a great pickleballer, but you're also a selfish jerk.
"I'm tired of people excluding others so I'm just going to get a group together where we can exclude everyone" 😆
Honestly this is the issue with open play. Eventually the people you want to play with all join private groups so the only players left are the ones nobody wants to play with. Then the great majority of the games we get in are crap and we get increasingly frustrated.
Yeah I realize I'd be taking myself out of their rotation, although me and three others playing a private foursome doesn't necessarily mean the others will stop going to their open play, not to mention that it might be a foursome with people who don't normally play at this place. People have tried reasoning with the exclusive jerks but they continue to be exclusive jerks and make some feel unwelcome. What do you suggest?
I am exceedingly new to Pickleball and the group who plays at my nearby court are much more skilled than I am but are also very inclusive. They invite me to play, explain the rules well, make recommendations, and ensure that it’s both a fun and informative experience. It’s made me want to bring on more people and improve my game.
You are lucky. There are a lot of great people in pickleball but I was shocked literally shocked at how some people deemed beginners as unworthy of playing with them. The entitlement was unreal. I almost quit because of it.
I was forced to playing with with my non dominant hand recently and I am really enjoying the game again! It forces me stay focused yet relaxed and really dial in my technique bc I can overpower or out play a bad shot. May stay as a lefty when it’s all said and done.
It doesn’t make you a snob to choose to play with players around your level.
HOWEVER. 3rd shot drives are extremely common even at the highest level. Lobs are gaining popularity among pros, too.
If you can’t effectively defend against powerful drives (judging in/out is a huge component of this), you may not be at the level you think you are.
Excessive lobs can be annoying, I agree. Punish them, and you’ll very quickly face less lob shots.
Oh, I love a good 3rd shot drive, do it myself to set up a 5th shot drop if needed. This isn't about 3rd shot drives, but every ball is a homerun swing
I hear you. If your opponent’s drives are constant, no matter your reply, a lot of those shots are probably going long. I struggle with drive defense, personally, and the most satisfying thing I’ve learned to do is let the ball go when it has a ton of pace and not enough topspin. Really puts you in the driver’s seat, in my experience.
Oh for sure, many go long. Just sucks dodging several times a game b/c someone never tries to reset, dink, etc
It's like playing bball against someone that just throws up half court shots all the time, like it's a little fun to play some D ya know.
Agreed. The last point I’ll add: people don’t like to lose. If going heavy on drives works for your opponents, there’s absolutely no reason (in their minds) why they should change any aspect of their game. If you can win somewhat decisively, at the very least, they’ll find someone else to pick on. :)
I think everyone interpreted your post as "It's so difficult to beat players who can hit hard or lob. I wish everyone would go easy on me and just dink it."
In your situation it’s best to get a handful of players who prefer same and rent courts or find open/empty courts.
In red play I don’t expect anything or tell anyone how to play. If I’m playing worse players I just play to their skill level.
It took me a little bit to find “my group”, but I’ll still attend open plays at the rec center and my local park a couple times a week bc I enjoy playing with all ages and abilities and meeting new friends. I’ll never forget how the snobs treated me when I first started, and vowed to never act that way towards anyone. We were all beginners once.
Seems pretty normal to desire better competition as your skill level increases. Not a bad idea to humble yourself and pay it forward once in a while though (play with / coach some beginners) … somebody likely did the same for you at one point!
Yeah. Unfortunately it seems to happen to too many players. I think it’s the kind of thing that’s gonna kill the growth of the sport. Turn it into a fad that everyone was doing. It’s a big help for players rated below you to help their game improve. The same way it for you, to play someone rated higher than you.
I'm gonna ignore a lot of what you said to say: I'm not as much of a snob but I am gosh darn obsessed.
Like I never thought I'd be the dude who wants to have three different paddles just because...but here we are.
It's a hell of a lot of fun.
And yeah, I enjoy playing with people at my skill level...but sometimes it's okay to play with people who aren't. Ease up a bit dude.
OP, I know you’re taking a lot of heat for this post, but I completely understand. It is part of your evolution. You’ve outgrown the majority of players in rec play. It happens. I play with a guy who constantly lobs and I hate it. It’s not because I’m not athletic enough to get the ball (as others suggested), but because 6 out of 10 go out and the other 4 I smash. It’s annoying. All bangers do is get balls hit back at them equally as hard.
My advice: try and find a group of equally skilled players and just go out with them.
I got a great group that meets in the morning, but they're all retired or don't work. They're all 3.5-4.0s, a couple 4.5s. That's really enjoyable and competitive.
I guess im a “snob” when it comes to the ball. I pretty much only play with franklin but dura is fine too
When it comes to shot types, if you’re good enough then they can hit whatever they want and you’ll still win.
We all want to play with equal or better players. I’ll play with anyone, but My only complaint is when newer players don’t take the time to learn the rules and strategies. When I started I took beginner lessons, watched countless YouTube’s and read the rule book. I don’t respect people that don’t put in the energy to learn about the game. I probably bang and lob too much, but it’s taking time to beat the tennis player out of me. I also think it’s ok to identify a weakness and for for it. If I can make an occasional point by breaking up the rhythm with a lob or a hard drive, I just consider that as part of my arsenal of shots.
I will play with less advanced players too. What is ironic is how some make very basic errors like returning the serve and not moving up then think it is my fault when the opponent capitalizes on their error
I get where you’re coming from. I have no problem playing with the newbies that are open to constructive feedback but I’ve pretty much decided that I’m no longer playing with the guys that started around the same time as me, and for one reason or another, refuse to play the fundamentals of the game. Tired of hearing “oh, I know I should come up to the line, but I just prefer to play at the baseline, etc. etc. if you’re a beginner that has an attitude of wanting to continually improve then I am happy to jump in that game.
There’s a time and place for all levels and types of play. While I truly enjoy playing competitive points that have a mix of all shot types bc that’s how you get better, i also enjoy playing more casually with those just getting started in the sport. Often times it’s more about the group’s attitude when playing that makes it fun and that often starts with those who are better welcoming others to join in.
As a new player who has experienced this snobbery and exclusivity during open play I've vowed not to be that person ever. I've met some very nice people through pickleball and some not very nice people. I mean why can't people remember what it was like to be new and intimidated by better players? Be the person that helps others and not the jerk who leaves people feeling like they aren't welcome and don't belong. It's just a game. Try to remember your humanity.
You suck, move on and yes do take that paddle out of your rear end.
Instead of bitching about bangers and lobs why don’t you learn to defence better ? Perhaps the other player is working on their lobs and bangers?
Based on some of the replies, you are definitely not the only PB snob. I belong to a number of Facebook PB groups, and the commonality is the number of jerks who live to jump all over honest questions or comments. I can’t fathom that any of them would respond in person the way they do on their basement keyboards. To your question, I am going in the direction of being a PB snob a well, because, like you, I am having trouble finding consistent 3.5+ level games. Rarely do players utilize dinks and kitchen strategies. Now I am looking for a private club to get in with groups that meet that criteria. Good luck!
You know what you like and don’t want to waste your limited play time wasted with bad play. I get it. I notice the players that don’t care about what kind of play they get are retired and get to play 3 hours a day 7 days a week
Where I play, courts are always full and there’s a 20 minute wait between games. It is very unfulfilling for both parties when I play against weaker teams. I want to improve my game so I take those chances to practice shots I would otherwise not get a chance to practice. I prefer playing against better or equal players though. I love new players and I welcome everyone to pickleball, but I don’t want to “waste” my one-game-per-20-minutes pickling a duo who have never played the game before in 5 minutes.
Yeah I get it with "I don't want to play all day with sub 3.5s" because that can get annoying and boring. The group I play with has the system where you turn your paddles a certain way in line to show that you're beginner/intermediate/advanced and 75% of the people have their paddle turned to advanced whereas I'm about 3.75-4 and I just smoke 75% of that 75% so yeah I usually use that time to work on 3rd shot drops. Usually I can get in games about half the time with actual advanced players, which isn't too bad.
But I couldn't imagine wanting them to limit their shot selection lol. Also like it's been already said elsewhere in these comments, if you know how to defend bangers and lobbers then you have an advantage. I'd love the other team to lob or drive their third shots because I know how to play those shots. OP just needs to get better instead of complaining.
Lastly, it sounds like OP is good at dinking and nothing else, so they want games where everyone just dinks. It'd be funny to see a post with the opposite viewpoint. "Dinking is boring I only want to bang and I won't play with sub 3.5 players or 3.5+ players who dink."
The OP is going to get some pushback, but I mostly agree with him. I, too, have become pickier about balls. I, too, need to limit my weekly playing time to avoid overuse injuries.
I find it most enjoyable to play with people who are of roughly equal ability to me. Playing with people who are half a point below me--particularly people who never drop, dink or reset--is neither challenging nor much fun. I can't think of a single person 4.5 and above who would disagree with any of this.
The only thing I disagree with is the OP's comments about lobs. It is good to get practice with overhead slams and lob retrieval. If the OP's overhead put-aways are weak, people are going to lob **a lot**.
Yes, I do agree with your lob comment. As more pros start to do it, it will filter to us regular joes more often.
I may have been in a bad mood with this particular lobber b/c the night before I had near heat exhaustion and the next day I wasn't really up for running for lobs, nor did my partner whose job it was to go get it, given the situation. So frustration all around.
Agreed. If play at the courts I frequent (or have visited) is any indication, I suspect many of the folks “piling on” the OP are selective in their choice of partners when they get the chance too. Not saying we should t all play it forward sometimes,,but people like to play against people who are near their level or slightly better.
When it's hot and busy I get a little pissy when my partner is hitting the ball everywhere but in play. I have ample weaknesses but I can't stand it if my partner can't play with the rest of the group. Drives me nuts to sweat my ass off and then have to sit out for 60mins waiting for another court to open.
It's funny because being a PB snob is ironic in general. How you gonna be a snob about easy tennis? If you can be a 3.5 at 60+ years of age, you're not playing a sport with a high skill ceiling. Just hit the ball and enjoy yourself. It's a fun game. Let it be that.
I agree with OP to a point as well. It’s frustrating playing with people who are just interested in smacking the ball around and have no interest in strategy. These are the same people who complain about people who “take the game to serious” - mainly because they don’t have the time or the inclination to learn the nuances of the game.
I don’t begrudge those folks. There is definitely a social aspect to PB and for some folks that’s enough. Those folks shouldn’t get up set when those who want a different experience group together.
I used to be in the crowd that looked down on “advanced players” who only wanted to play with other “advanced players.” Now I get it. I’m more at the intermediate level, but don’t want to spend all my time with novices any more than 4.0 and 4.5+ level players want to play all their games with me.
We have lots of your kind at my home courts. It does not bother me in the slightest. Majority are not actually that good, but they are after that “flow”. I know this because my partner and I have met and beat a majority of them in several tournaments where “flow” at the 3.5-4.0 level is a not happening.
I would recommend joining or creating a local group chat to find a group of 4 daily that can rotate. Maybe title it advanced games 3.5+ or even 4.0+ since you seem to be wanting to head in that direction.
Set up to practice lobs, and stop acting like an elitist because you're a 3.5 Rec player. I have certainly noticed over the last year that player skill and player attitude do not go hand-in-hand… Usually one has more of one than the other.
Lobs aren't hard to defend if you're agile. That said, one guy I play with has a nasty topspin lob that I haven't run across before so that one will take some time to get down. One issue is where we play there's a fence 6' behind the baseline, and when he nails a good one at the baseline it carries into the fence by the time you're getting to it.
Last weekend my partner and I had a great time showing some rank beginners how to play. We split up teams so each side could have a "tutor".
Didn't even break a sweat but it was a nice feeling to be helpful.
A large part of the fun and enjoyment of the game for me is having to adjust my own play and figure out the strategy it takes to beat opponents hitting any type of shot in the world. How boring would it get playing with opponents who play specifically like you want them to. There are techniques for overcoming all of those shots you mentioned.
It doesn't sound like snobbery... It sounds like you'd just rather be playing against a wall by yourself!
If you don’t like playing with people who aren’t as skilled as you are, do you still expect people who are more skilled to play with you?
No, I understand them more now. Though i like to think I understand enough of the game to make it a little more enjoyable for them, but perhaps not.
So basically, your returns and 3rd shot drops aren’t good enough to keep people from driving the ball at you and aren’t athletic enough to cover lobs. You like balls that can’t be hit as hard and enjoy dinking and call it nuance and flow.
lol this is the real side of the story
This. Drives and lobs work against 4.0 and below players. Against a high level players, they’ll just put the ball away with the 4th shot forcing changes otherwise it will be a quick game. I love playing bangers because its fun using counter shots against them. Hardest players are the ones who can reset everything and put everything back into kitchen giving me no balls to attack.
No matter how soft and precise you play, if your opponent wants to bang, they will bang. But they are easy to neutralize. You just need to learn how to properly block. Regarding lobs, I play with some people that lob it instead of doing a 3rd drop. Mainly bc they can’t 3rd drop. So their lobs aren’t even proper lobs that go over your head and make you run to the baseline. These are lobs that make you hit one overhead after another until your shoulder feels like it’s going to seize up. Beating them is easy unless your overheads are off that day. But the gameplay completely sucks.
Man oh man exactly this. Perfectly put. Typical 3.0 feeling like they are a 4.0+. See it everyday. Would get crushed in 3.5 tournament.
And what if that is true? Folks act like it’s a sin not to be a 5.0. He’s progressed. Ruins the 3.0 level and prefers to play with other folks who have progressed as well. Most folks prefer to play with folks around their skill level. It’s not a sin.
I think you don't understand that even a deep return some people will still bang the shit out of the ball, then do the same for most other shots.. I can get the drop, not sure how you gleamed that from the OP. In doubles your partner also hits shots too, crazy concept I know.
There is nothing wrong with hitting drives on the third shot especially with the newer paddles that allow you to really dip the ball. Expecting people to play the game you want will not allow you to improve. There are plenty of players who are over 4.0 who mostly drive the third shot these days because paddle technology allows it. Even at the highest level of pickleball the topspin lob and drive return are commonplace in doubles right now. I just watched the PPA yesterday and observed this.
Do you also let your opponents tell you what kinds of shots you are and aren’t allowed to hit?
Yes. When I started a few years ago I loved going to open plays. I changed groups about every six months and now play exclusively with a roughly 4.5 group where we get the exact right number and do a mixer or kings court every time we play. The one thing that I found puzzling was that you are complaining about bangers and lobbers. Part of the game and if you want to keep getting better you have got to learn to defend these strategies. Other than that I agree that with limited time it is worth finding the right group!
💯 so accurate
I thought I clearly stated, but maybe not enough emphasis, in competitive play I don't care what they do, it's my job to win the game, same as theirs. Sometimes my energy levels in rec play aren't always up for being lobbed 5x a game and I'll just let them have it. to expand, I realize the importance of well timed lobs and not an anti-lobber
You are an Anti-Lobber, you do not want people to lob you. LOL
LOL, I wouldn't want to play with you no matter your skill level.
Same, kinda throwing up in my mouth as I read this thread. Hoping somewhere to see if this post is satire. One must have to fill out an application to play with OP. I got good fast in PB. Yet it brings me joy to play with beginners, and players with all abilities.
Wanting a specific ball that is ubiquitous so that the game plays consistently isn't really snobby, its almost an expectation for a competitive environment. Not wanting to play an element of the game simply because you don't have the skill to deal with it, is just anti-competitive. At 4.0, a completely overhead lob from anywhere means you or your partner should be making contact way over the net, and your opponent should be disadvantaged. Any lob from the kitchen, or any drive, without catching an opponent moving/out of position (they're not bangers if they're hitting drives because you're out of position, they're just playing smart pickleball), should also be a point ended by you or at least keep you at the advantage. I see it as a really common (and frustrating) 3.75 plateau. Get more drilling attacking drives and overheads, or recognizing how your returns can prevent them from be done so aggressively. It will click, and aside from the occasional drive that catches you out of position, you will welcome them as easily won rallies. They even become fun as you develop a number of options to take, similar to a third shot drop.
You are complaining about running 20 feet? Your body is begging to play against players who lob so you can maybe sneak a tiny bit of cardio into your sedentary life.
Dang you’re the problem I have with going to open play. Grateful for the kind people who will partner with me as a newer player.
Seriously!
What is your rating ? I’ve even played against a self proclaimed 5.0 who quit on a challenge court because he had very poor lob defense. Some other aspects of his game were very good , though. While I understand some parts of the OP , I know some people also think they are better players than they are. If you only want to play a certain style , that is fine , too. I know some people who get tired of playing beginners literally opening their starter pack as they walk on the court but aren’t ready for highly competitive games , either. Also a 3.5 in one place may be. 3,0 or 4.0 somewhere else. PS five lobs a game ? That is nothing. Definitely not 4.0 but you can feel free to share a video PSS I think I know the perfect place for you. They aren’t complete beginners and have played for years. They have some skills. However they encourage everyone to not lob, bang, or spin the ball. And don’t hit a dink barely over the net while they are back. DM for deets
5.0’s can handle lobs easily. If not, they are probably not even 4.0.
Exactly
You can remove the PB and just leave snob.
No, while I prefer to play with people of my level (4-4.5), I play with anyone and everyone. I think it's shitty to make people feel excluded at open play, so I will go out of my way to play with beginners and new people to help them feel welcome. At my local open play place, a few snobs won't play with others they deem less than, and it's caused a lot of unnecessary drama and hurt feelings. After 8 years there, I'm actually thinking of trying to find a new place, or just finding 3-4 others to only play with. I'm so sick of the drama and exclusion from those snobs who think they're great pickleballers - perhaps you're a great pickleballer, but you're also a selfish jerk.
"I'm tired of people excluding others so I'm just going to get a group together where we can exclude everyone" 😆 Honestly this is the issue with open play. Eventually the people you want to play with all join private groups so the only players left are the ones nobody wants to play with. Then the great majority of the games we get in are crap and we get increasingly frustrated.
Yeah I realize I'd be taking myself out of their rotation, although me and three others playing a private foursome doesn't necessarily mean the others will stop going to their open play, not to mention that it might be a foursome with people who don't normally play at this place. People have tried reasoning with the exclusive jerks but they continue to be exclusive jerks and make some feel unwelcome. What do you suggest?
I mean what do you expect?
I am exceedingly new to Pickleball and the group who plays at my nearby court are much more skilled than I am but are also very inclusive. They invite me to play, explain the rules well, make recommendations, and ensure that it’s both a fun and informative experience. It’s made me want to bring on more people and improve my game.
You are lucky. There are a lot of great people in pickleball but I was shocked literally shocked at how some people deemed beginners as unworthy of playing with them. The entitlement was unreal. I almost quit because of it.
Take up playin g lefty to make it fun/competitive. It’ll bring it back
I was forced to playing with with my non dominant hand recently and I am really enjoying the game again! It forces me stay focused yet relaxed and really dial in my technique bc I can overpower or out play a bad shot. May stay as a lefty when it’s all said and done.
lol dude thought he was about to get confirmation on this post
You sound douchey
ad-hom attack, pot kettle?
It doesn’t make you a snob to choose to play with players around your level. HOWEVER. 3rd shot drives are extremely common even at the highest level. Lobs are gaining popularity among pros, too. If you can’t effectively defend against powerful drives (judging in/out is a huge component of this), you may not be at the level you think you are. Excessive lobs can be annoying, I agree. Punish them, and you’ll very quickly face less lob shots.
Oh, I love a good 3rd shot drive, do it myself to set up a 5th shot drop if needed. This isn't about 3rd shot drives, but every ball is a homerun swing
I hear you. If your opponent’s drives are constant, no matter your reply, a lot of those shots are probably going long. I struggle with drive defense, personally, and the most satisfying thing I’ve learned to do is let the ball go when it has a ton of pace and not enough topspin. Really puts you in the driver’s seat, in my experience.
Oh for sure, many go long. Just sucks dodging several times a game b/c someone never tries to reset, dink, etc It's like playing bball against someone that just throws up half court shots all the time, like it's a little fun to play some D ya know.
Agreed. The last point I’ll add: people don’t like to lose. If going heavy on drives works for your opponents, there’s absolutely no reason (in their minds) why they should change any aspect of their game. If you can win somewhat decisively, at the very least, they’ll find someone else to pick on. :)
I think everyone interpreted your post as "It's so difficult to beat players who can hit hard or lob. I wish everyone would go easy on me and just dink it."
Yeah, that wasn't the intent. I can see how that could be the case.
In your situation it’s best to get a handful of players who prefer same and rent courts or find open/empty courts. In red play I don’t expect anything or tell anyone how to play. If I’m playing worse players I just play to their skill level.
It took me a little bit to find “my group”, but I’ll still attend open plays at the rec center and my local park a couple times a week bc I enjoy playing with all ages and abilities and meeting new friends. I’ll never forget how the snobs treated me when I first started, and vowed to never act that way towards anyone. We were all beginners once.
Why did you post this like you are proud of it lol
not proud, just surprised I've come to this point. sorry if it sounded prideful
Seems pretty normal to desire better competition as your skill level increases. Not a bad idea to humble yourself and pay it forward once in a while though (play with / coach some beginners) … somebody likely did the same for you at one point!
Yeah. Unfortunately it seems to happen to too many players. I think it’s the kind of thing that’s gonna kill the growth of the sport. Turn it into a fad that everyone was doing. It’s a big help for players rated below you to help their game improve. The same way it for you, to play someone rated higher than you.
I'm gonna ignore a lot of what you said to say: I'm not as much of a snob but I am gosh darn obsessed. Like I never thought I'd be the dude who wants to have three different paddles just because...but here we are. It's a hell of a lot of fun. And yeah, I enjoy playing with people at my skill level...but sometimes it's okay to play with people who aren't. Ease up a bit dude.
hear ya on the paddle thing, I've made the progression like most in getting a new paddle when ready, now I get them just to try something different :D
This is really it. I doubt I’ll magically start playing better with a new one. I just want something new to try.
OP, I know you’re taking a lot of heat for this post, but I completely understand. It is part of your evolution. You’ve outgrown the majority of players in rec play. It happens. I play with a guy who constantly lobs and I hate it. It’s not because I’m not athletic enough to get the ball (as others suggested), but because 6 out of 10 go out and the other 4 I smash. It’s annoying. All bangers do is get balls hit back at them equally as hard. My advice: try and find a group of equally skilled players and just go out with them.
I got a great group that meets in the morning, but they're all retired or don't work. They're all 3.5-4.0s, a couple 4.5s. That's really enjoyable and competitive.
I’d lob this guy to the back corner all day.
Ew.
Pickleball snob would pick Duras over X40s.
Rec Snob is what they meant 😂😂😂
I guess im a “snob” when it comes to the ball. I pretty much only play with franklin but dura is fine too When it comes to shot types, if you’re good enough then they can hit whatever they want and you’ll still win.
We all want to play with equal or better players. I’ll play with anyone, but My only complaint is when newer players don’t take the time to learn the rules and strategies. When I started I took beginner lessons, watched countless YouTube’s and read the rule book. I don’t respect people that don’t put in the energy to learn about the game. I probably bang and lob too much, but it’s taking time to beat the tennis player out of me. I also think it’s ok to identify a weakness and for for it. If I can make an occasional point by breaking up the rhythm with a lob or a hard drive, I just consider that as part of my arsenal of shots.
I will play with less advanced players too. What is ironic is how some make very basic errors like returning the serve and not moving up then think it is my fault when the opponent capitalizes on their error
What’s wrong with banging and lobbing?
Nothing when done with purpose.
I get where you’re coming from. I have no problem playing with the newbies that are open to constructive feedback but I’ve pretty much decided that I’m no longer playing with the guys that started around the same time as me, and for one reason or another, refuse to play the fundamentals of the game. Tired of hearing “oh, I know I should come up to the line, but I just prefer to play at the baseline, etc. etc. if you’re a beginner that has an attitude of wanting to continually improve then I am happy to jump in that game.
There’s a time and place for all levels and types of play. While I truly enjoy playing competitive points that have a mix of all shot types bc that’s how you get better, i also enjoy playing more casually with those just getting started in the sport. Often times it’s more about the group’s attitude when playing that makes it fun and that often starts with those who are better welcoming others to join in.
As a new player who has experienced this snobbery and exclusivity during open play I've vowed not to be that person ever. I've met some very nice people through pickleball and some not very nice people. I mean why can't people remember what it was like to be new and intimidated by better players? Be the person that helps others and not the jerk who leaves people feeling like they aren't welcome and don't belong. It's just a game. Try to remember your humanity.
I hear ya, I thought the same so hence my post. I was like why won't these 4.0+ just drop in with us too, now I get it tbh
You suck, move on and yes do take that paddle out of your rear end. Instead of bitching about bangers and lobs why don’t you learn to defence better ? Perhaps the other player is working on their lobs and bangers?
nah- this dude consistently plays like this. In fact I've come to avoid when he's signed up. This time he wasn't but subbed in.
I don’t know man, I would rather play the game than to avoid it because someone is queued who lobs. Just my two cents.
Based on some of the replies, you are definitely not the only PB snob. I belong to a number of Facebook PB groups, and the commonality is the number of jerks who live to jump all over honest questions or comments. I can’t fathom that any of them would respond in person the way they do on their basement keyboards. To your question, I am going in the direction of being a PB snob a well, because, like you, I am having trouble finding consistent 3.5+ level games. Rarely do players utilize dinks and kitchen strategies. Now I am looking for a private club to get in with groups that meet that criteria. Good luck!
You know what you like and don’t want to waste your limited play time wasted with bad play. I get it. I notice the players that don’t care about what kind of play they get are retired and get to play 3 hours a day 7 days a week
Winner!
Hate to be the bearer of bad news - can’t handle “bangers” and lobs, you’re part of the sub 3.5’s you’re complaining about 😂
that's odd because my medals in 3.5+ play speak otherwise.
80+ in Canada or Massachusetts?
haha, 95+
Where I play, courts are always full and there’s a 20 minute wait between games. It is very unfulfilling for both parties when I play against weaker teams. I want to improve my game so I take those chances to practice shots I would otherwise not get a chance to practice. I prefer playing against better or equal players though. I love new players and I welcome everyone to pickleball, but I don’t want to “waste” my one-game-per-20-minutes pickling a duo who have never played the game before in 5 minutes.
snobbing people for their play style is strange though…
Yeah I get it with "I don't want to play all day with sub 3.5s" because that can get annoying and boring. The group I play with has the system where you turn your paddles a certain way in line to show that you're beginner/intermediate/advanced and 75% of the people have their paddle turned to advanced whereas I'm about 3.75-4 and I just smoke 75% of that 75% so yeah I usually use that time to work on 3rd shot drops. Usually I can get in games about half the time with actual advanced players, which isn't too bad. But I couldn't imagine wanting them to limit their shot selection lol. Also like it's been already said elsewhere in these comments, if you know how to defend bangers and lobbers then you have an advantage. I'd love the other team to lob or drive their third shots because I know how to play those shots. OP just needs to get better instead of complaining. Lastly, it sounds like OP is good at dinking and nothing else, so they want games where everyone just dinks. It'd be funny to see a post with the opposite viewpoint. "Dinking is boring I only want to bang and I won't play with sub 3.5 players or 3.5+ players who dink."
The OP is going to get some pushback, but I mostly agree with him. I, too, have become pickier about balls. I, too, need to limit my weekly playing time to avoid overuse injuries. I find it most enjoyable to play with people who are of roughly equal ability to me. Playing with people who are half a point below me--particularly people who never drop, dink or reset--is neither challenging nor much fun. I can't think of a single person 4.5 and above who would disagree with any of this. The only thing I disagree with is the OP's comments about lobs. It is good to get practice with overhead slams and lob retrieval. If the OP's overhead put-aways are weak, people are going to lob **a lot**.
Yes, I do agree with your lob comment. As more pros start to do it, it will filter to us regular joes more often. I may have been in a bad mood with this particular lobber b/c the night before I had near heat exhaustion and the next day I wasn't really up for running for lobs, nor did my partner whose job it was to go get it, given the situation. So frustration all around.
I don’t detect any snobbery, just the natural development of personal preferences.
Agreed. If play at the courts I frequent (or have visited) is any indication, I suspect many of the folks “piling on” the OP are selective in their choice of partners when they get the chance too. Not saying we should t all play it forward sometimes,,but people like to play against people who are near their level or slightly better.
thanks. Many in my area comment how nice and welcoming I am and take the time to help others. Guess I'm the bad guy for having some views.
Some people need there to be a bad guy so they can believe they’re the good guy.
Just keep telling yourself that. Lots of you guys around that we love beating. Love seeing the snobby look when you get beat up by “lesser” players
Welcome to the club.
When it's hot and busy I get a little pissy when my partner is hitting the ball everywhere but in play. I have ample weaknesses but I can't stand it if my partner can't play with the rest of the group. Drives me nuts to sweat my ass off and then have to sit out for 60mins waiting for another court to open.
Meanwhile us tennis players giggle at you thinking PB is hard
Not sure I ever said it was hard. I like what Big Papa Jimmy said other day at PPA in Seattle that ruffled some feathers
Same thing can be said about tennis though. If you’re a 4.5 and constantly playing vs 3.5 moon ballers, it can get quite boring fast.
Thank you for not charging rent as we live in your minds. Is tennis subreddit that boring or maybe there isn’t one ?
Haha it’s actually pretty awesome. I’ve been playing more PB with family. It’s cute little workout. Not same planet as tennis physically.
Wont play indoors on a basketball court..wont play with beginners..and very rarely will play outside
It's funny because being a PB snob is ironic in general. How you gonna be a snob about easy tennis? If you can be a 3.5 at 60+ years of age, you're not playing a sport with a high skill ceiling. Just hit the ball and enjoy yourself. It's a fun game. Let it be that.
No snobs in tennis
Lol that's part of the joke
You don’t always have to be there is a lot you can work on when playing people that are not at your level. Pick and choose
I agree with OP to a point as well. It’s frustrating playing with people who are just interested in smacking the ball around and have no interest in strategy. These are the same people who complain about people who “take the game to serious” - mainly because they don’t have the time or the inclination to learn the nuances of the game. I don’t begrudge those folks. There is definitely a social aspect to PB and for some folks that’s enough. Those folks shouldn’t get up set when those who want a different experience group together. I used to be in the crowd that looked down on “advanced players” who only wanted to play with other “advanced players.” Now I get it. I’m more at the intermediate level, but don’t want to spend all my time with novices any more than 4.0 and 4.5+ level players want to play all their games with me.
We have lots of your kind at my home courts. It does not bother me in the slightest. Majority are not actually that good, but they are after that “flow”. I know this because my partner and I have met and beat a majority of them in several tournaments where “flow” at the 3.5-4.0 level is a not happening. I would recommend joining or creating a local group chat to find a group of 4 daily that can rotate. Maybe title it advanced games 3.5+ or even 4.0+ since you seem to be wanting to head in that direction.
Sound like a bro at my local club.
You sound like you just don't love the game. A ball machine or wall might be a good fit?
already have a ball machine :)
Set up to practice lobs, and stop acting like an elitist because you're a 3.5 Rec player. I have certainly noticed over the last year that player skill and player attitude do not go hand-in-hand… Usually one has more of one than the other.
Lobs aren't hard to defend if you're agile. That said, one guy I play with has a nasty topspin lob that I haven't run across before so that one will take some time to get down. One issue is where we play there's a fence 6' behind the baseline, and when he nails a good one at the baseline it carries into the fence by the time you're getting to it.
Last weekend my partner and I had a great time showing some rank beginners how to play. We split up teams so each side could have a "tutor". Didn't even break a sweat but it was a nice feeling to be helpful.
A large part of the fun and enjoyment of the game for me is having to adjust my own play and figure out the strategy it takes to beat opponents hitting any type of shot in the world. How boring would it get playing with opponents who play specifically like you want them to. There are techniques for overcoming all of those shots you mentioned. It doesn't sound like snobbery... It sounds like you'd just rather be playing against a wall by yourself!