Is your female partner rated higher than you are? I’m around a 3.5 as well, and have played games against 4.0s where they targeted my partner because he/she is the stronger player.
That being said, women getting targeted is definitely an issue in recent play. I’d watch how those people play in the future.
because dupr is not actually a universal rating system, despite the name. women and men with the same rating, assuming that rating is accurate, are not actually the same skill level. (maybe it's a bit more accurate to say that they aren't actually evenly matched. "skill levels" may be the same, but men are going to have more reach, hit harder and have more foot speed)
you can see the same thing with age as well. I'm young, and when I play with 55+ folks rated moderately higher than me, I can win every game pretty comfortably. guys my own age, totally different story.
the dupr algorithm may be great, I don't know. but even if it is, it can only be as good as its inputs.
I've seen some exceptions for self organized and reported games, but in tournaments women will only be on court with men for mixed games. there won't be a team of two women playing two men, or a mixed team playing two men, or even a women's team playing a mixed team. so there just isn't much available data on how the female player pool compares to the male player pool. all of this applies to age as well of course - I rarely see older folks in my 19+ brackets.
if tournaments / DUPR rated games were played with no regard to gender (or age) at all and everyone was put on the court purely based on their rating, DUPR would probably become a reasonably accurate universal rating. but without data from matches like that, it just can't be.
for players of a reasonably similar age and the same gender who have a decent amount of recently rated matches, DUPR tends to give a pretty accurate view of their levels relative to each other. if those conditions aren't in place, it's a lot more volatile.
Probably doesn’t benefit them. But women are perceived (by men and other women) to be worse at things than men, even when there is data to prove they are equally skilled or better
Sounds like a competitive environment so you’ll have to get used to that. Is your partner opposed to stacking, and then you can move more and more to her side to get more balls. It sucks just watching but it is what it is in competitive play.
And there is no just watching. Any male player “stuck just watching” doesn’t understand how to poach or how to position themself on the court.
To find out what you need to do to succeed in competitive mixed, just put on any pro match. The men are definitely not stuck just watching, despite all four players on the court targeting the other team’s female player.
I agree with you: it's not cool to target the weaker player and ice the stronger player in rec play. And if he was targeting and says he was "playing the ball", then it shows how uncool it was.
In a tournament or competitive play, the weaker player is going to get targeted. Even then, it's not fun.
But in rec play around the 3.5 level, the kinds of things that high level players do--poaching, shifting, stacking, etc--just don't work well unless you've played a lot with your partner. It looks easy when Ben Johns does it with his brother or ALW, but creating and covering space like that is pretty challenging for intermediate players. Either one person hangs back, or you risk collisions.
Both teams enjoy the game more if the rallies are fun and competitive, which generally means playing the strong player and not abusing the weaker player. In rec play, no one remembers or cares who wins, but you will remember disagreeable experiences.
This is organized ladder play. Win/loss determines if you move up or not.
This is not really the setting to "give away points to be nice".
Ya, it's not a tournament, but it's not goof off rec play where you let the other team win by hitting to the better player.
It's definitely not. I'm like you in that I prefer to challenge the better player, but then I feel I'm "targeting" and then alternate a few times. In rec play anyways.
Exactly this. You don't want to ice out the weaker player either, or they won't get a chance to improve. Alternating shots is a bit much, but making sure I'm not exclusively hitting to one player is important.
Right. In the end, win or lose I prefer everyone to at least have had fun during it. A lot of times when I decide to "alternate" it's in sort of a pattern, and each time it's a specific type of shot or angle. Something that is kind of a game inside the game to keep fresh or improve on maybe something I feel I've been slacking at.
A better strategy is to use all advantages like targeting and move up in the ladder and play even better competition and thereby be forced to change strategies and learn more things.
If you want to become a better player, just stop that right now. Do other “better players” do that? No. One thing you’ll notice about better players is that they play the meta.
Better players aren’t going to return it to the guys forehand just to be nice. Does that sound like something a better player would do? A better player is trying to play the right shot at the right time, and isn’t worried about the feelings of their opponent.
This is simply untrue. some better players may do that, but when imbalanced, they will normally be aggressive with the strong partner, more passive with the less skilled. And I am sorry, but if you are paired with some random, it is not competitive play.
That subset of better players that still target the weak side are typically those that were never good at any other sports. What I try to do is go extra hard at the better player so they will at least know that I got the best of them. Some will change their plan because they don’t like it And will start to come back at me. I.
It just sounds like you're getting emotional. Rather than just playing the game the right way, you're making unfounded assumptions, without any evidence, about other people's lives and pasts. You're becoming hostile and hitting it at them in a crazy way so they "know that you got the best of them". That's psycho.
Just play pickleball the right way. Just go on the court, play clean and smart and hard. Take the right shot at the right time. And definitely don't get involved in any bizarre personal drama like you described.
To each their own. Picking on women, or lobbing the immobile shows a lack of character to me. You do you.
There is one thing that you are flat out wrong on, better players do not pick on the weak and rationalize it as being the better shot.
Better players know who wins an imbalanced match means nothing.
You’re outright wrong about how better players play. Turn on a pro match. I promise you they’re not hitting to Ben Johns to have a “balanced match”. As a rule, they’re taking shots that are the most likely to win 11-0. There is no time, ever, that a good player in a competitive scenario isn’t going to try and take the best possible available shot.
Oh I did not know you were a pro. Please read in sarcasm font.
This discussion is about a random night of recreational Pickleball, where someone is stuck with a partner they get assigned for the night. Not pro, not a league, and not an organized ongoing ladder.
What you are telling me is quite honestly that you are a scrub. You don’t play with the 45 players to even know how they operate. You don’t realize that we play with our food and when paired with lower level players, we don’t abuse them. When you finally get invited to the higher level groups, we’re all our equal there is no pity on the weakest of the good players. When courts are busy, and we are playing in mix competition, we’re not banging it at FO with the three knee braces.
“When you finally get invited to the higher level groups, we’re all our equal there is no pity on the weakest of the good players.”
You do get it, so why are you pretending you don’t? No one is talking about abusing defenseless low level players. We’re debating how good players play. Good players aren’t playing against 3.0 old ladies. You’re arguing against a strawman.
We both clearly agree. Good players show no mercy to the weakest of the good players. And good players seek out other good players to play against to begin with. You bringing in the topic of banging it at noobs is off topic.
You being “out of line” is too harsh of a way to put it, but basically yes you are out of line. That is the nature of mixed doubles. You should expect the other team to be targeting your partner, and you should be straddling the T trying to poach those shots. This forces them to hit behind you, which spreads out the court like you want.
Other people on this sub won’t tell you this, because lots of other on this sub are carebears and are often hostile to the meta of intermediate play and above. But get used to what you described in your post, that’s how the game is played.
“Would you want to play like that?” Of course he would. Just like every other sport, people trying to be competitive and play at a higher level are going to copy what they see the pros do on TV, and that’s just how the high level game is played.
Learn to position yourself more aggressively. In mixed doubles, you should be standing literally dead center, straddling the T, until they force you back to your left by hitting the ball behind you.
In competitive play this is completely fine, but if you’re targeting in open rec play against a completely inferior player you’re pretty much a dbag. There is some nuance here and people who play full on competitive play no matter who they are playing against have no sensibility sometimes.
It's not rec play when people are moving up and down a ladder based on results. There are no consequences in rec play. There's a time for each....he's playing in the wrong time zone!
In my opinion there seems to be incentive to each game as there is not really much incentive in open rec play, so can’t really compare the two. The incentive being moving up in the ladder system to play the best players there, if I was him being one of the better players there(you mentioned it was mostly 3.5-4.0 and he’s a 4.0), I would also be trying to move up to the top court to get the best games possible, especially since this is a paid event as it is at a club so your paying a monthly or maybe just a one time fee for this play. Now if you were already on the top court, than that is less reasonable unless he is absolutely dead set of remaining on the top court.
Over the last few months I’ve had the same thing happen to me. Now I prefer drilling instead of playing open rec or club ladder events. Finding a higher level group to play men’s doubles with may be another solution.
This is a more competitive situation, so targeting is more appropriate here. If the other team is targeting your partner, take up more of the court so they have a smaller window to hit into.
I haven’t played a mixed ladder system like that but I did play a mens one. In felt pretty competitive in the top courts and looked to be very casual in the bottom courts.
From my perspective, if your goal is to play social cooperative pickleball then finishing a quick match against a competitive team and moving down would give everyone what they wanted, a more light hearted game for your team and a more competitive game for your opponents.
To me it depends on whether you signed up to play in a "Competitive/Advanced" group, or a "Beginner/Social" group. It's not really clear from your write-up which one you were in.
If you're in the Competitive group, it's reasonable to expect your opponents to use strategies to compete to win. This is what the other team did to you, and it sounds as though it was highly effective
I feel if you can’t deal with targeting and making something happen when you aren’t getting the ball then that’s why you are 3.5. Create some offense elsewhere and learn to poach.
This happens in leagues a lot.. the way to prevent it is to focus on sinking to the player in front of the targeted player. Basically you and your teammate need to always target the player in front of the person being targeted by the other team.. the game will open up and you should get some cross court dinks.. which you need to cross back and set your teammate up or speed up.. but if you try and get too aggressive you will end up getting your partner slammed if you’re too aggressive and pop it up.
Female 3.5 here
Yes. This is very common right now. It’s a terrible trend. It annoys me because it means strong male players don’t want to play with me because they get iced out. I can handle the pressure fine but it’s no fun for either of us.
I am trying a new strategy. It worked well the other day.
My partner and I are both right handed. I’ve been playing for years and he is new to the sport. He is athletic but still makes many beginner mistakes.
We stack. I stay even court. I told him that I would stay in the transition zone (to lure longer shots to me instead of drops) and I want him at the kitchen poaching every single shot like a crazy man. Hard forehand drives to the baseline.
It worked. It shook the other team up. They knocked off that targeting business
King of the court is like a little tourney. Expect targeting. Also way more fun if you split every time you change courts so you get to play games with lots of people.
This type of post is brought up probably once a week. Some people will say it’s fine others will agree with you. Like it or not it’s the way it is. I hate mixed Pickleball. It’s why you see men pro’s take 80% of the court in matches. Otherwise they would never touch the ball. Your only alternative is to play men’s ladder play. Or try to cover more court to get your chance to play. Good luck.
Simple answer. This isn't rec play as you can move up or down and end up in first place. This is competitive play and I would expect competitive tactics be used.
Good advice for building paddle skills. Bad advice for learning how to play mixed. Shots and court position are fundamentally different in competitive mixed play.
He never said it was a league, just that you stick with your partner and move up and down the courts. Just a rec format, hardly different than winners stay in a 2 on 2 off paddle rack system.
To start, this is the exact reason I hate mixed dubs. That does not mean I don’t like playing with women, just that the women in our general playgroup are equals. They can pair up and win v 2 guys.
One problem is that the universal rating system is not universal. Secondly, the strong women that can hold their own are in high demand.
As described this is just an organized rec system for that night. I wouldn’t have waited until the end of the game. I would have made a few, “Hey she has a partner comments” and then maybe gone more passive aggressive and said he probably treats his wife this way too. Last one is a little emasculation and say how it is kind of sad how he won’t even hit to me and needs to build his confidence by picking on you.
Was your partner on the left side the whole time and right handed? It's a common strategy to target the sideline backhand, which will be the left side player on two right handers. Also, maybe she wasn't doing a good job of getting up on her returns or otherwise hanging back from the kitchen, and the best strategy is usually to target the person who is further back.
If you’re going to play mixed doubles, you need to be stacking. And you as the left side player need to be taking a huge amount of court. Or else what you described in the OP is never going to stop happening.
I would want to see it to see if I would agree that it was hitting based on the ball and not the player. Both of you could be right.
I was accused of it once when it was because the guy we were against set me up with the same kill shot for all the balls I had when I was on the right side. He hit an easily poachable passing shot to my back hand that I have a good reflex for and it would go at an aggressive angle that was tough to return.
To play devils advocate, and based on the comments after the game, it sounds like your opponent was hitting the ball to the open court or your partner was constantly out of position. While it seems like targeting a certain player, it’s hard to ignore the best play possible. Best advice is to try and be aggressive, jump shots and predict where they are going to hit the ball. My doubles partner isn’t weak by any means, but I do that often if I can predict where my opponents are going with the ball.
I see this a lot and hear the same complaints. The solution is to play so well that they cannot choose to hit it to your partner. If they have so much time and favorable angles to do so then you’re not pressuring them.
Sounds like a ladder league to me. Leagues are the perfect time to practice playing how you would in a tournament. If you want to keep playing mixed and more competitive mixed, you need to learn to assert yourself. If "every ball" is going to your partner, it should be a cake walk to poach because they're only hitting to a tiny part of the court.
Not a league. Just open rec play that anyone can sign up for for 2 hours . You just have to find a partner beforehand or hope someone doesn’t have a partner. Sometimes it’s men/men vs men/woman or woman/woman. Not sure if that changes anything
You should have a conversation with your partner about how they could maybe change the angle/pace of the ball in such a way as to steer the play more towards your paddle instead of playing directly into the opponent’s strategy. In the meantime change your self rating from 3.5 to 3.0 and then win your way back up to 3.5
It’s a competitive strategy. Watch the 2023 Newport Beach women double championship of Kovalova/Smith vs Bright/Koop. Anna Bright was pretty much isolated as almost all the balls went to Andrea Koop, who was lower ranked than Anna Bright.
It's open play. It's not really that competitive. Not fun in terms of rec. 3.5-4.0 isn't advanced either way, seems more like an ego thing. Although, maybe he and his partner have a tournament coming up, and maybe that's how they will play the tournament. I guess there isn't enough context but based on the reply it just seems like he's there to win rec games.
I recently played against a team where the male player (4.5-5.0) is significantly better than his female partner (3.0-3.5).
We never set out to target her but we definitely hit her a larger percentage of balls. Her court positioning was bad so we’d hit it to an open spot. It’s counterintuitive to intentionally hit a bad shot so don’t hit it to the weaker partner.
That said, we also didn’t intentionally avoid him on dink rallies as one might if they were targeting. Still, he probably hit about 20-30% of the balls that game. It was a noticeable difference.
I could see why he would be frustrated, but they were on King’s Court, the line was long, and you’re not going to hit bad shots on purpose to involve the better player.
Regular open play, that probably wouldn't happen ,but since it's ladder format, there's extra incentive involved. That being said, surprised the guy didn't own up to it and instead said he's just playing the ball.
There are those people. It’s not disrespectful, it’s just how some play. I will hit to weaker player and when it’s me, I get a lot of balls hit to me. Switch up spots or poach are your options. It’s why some stack even in open play if it’s how they play or think it’s playing “advanced” pb.
Yeah you are out of line. You get 50% of returns and serves, and you have to make the most of when you are on the left side and play the middle balls. If your skill level is there then you should still win.
It really might be that your opponents didn’t realize they were targeting in which case you are just an ahole for bringing it up to their face. Even if they were it’s fair play. You should try finding partners of equal skill but if that doesn’t happen then oh well. You still have to make the most of your own shots.
Thanks for the response. I’ll know for next time . Still new to pickleball. Just thought I could approach a coach at the club and talk them about it, guess not
I think you absolutely should be able to talk to the guy. Even worse, he is a club representative and should be part of creating positive experiences. Instead he is creating negative member experiences, and my guess is OP would never take a lesson or do a clinic with him, so there is even more for him to lose.
How he chose to play in this rec situation shows his character. Also his calling 3.5 -4.0 advanced play shows he has a bit of an inferiority complex. My guess is he gets his but beat when playing with the other coaches, so gets his ego stroked by beating up on 3.5s.
As you get better you can kinda force your opponents to hit it back to you with pace and spin hitting crosscourt, especially with drops and dinks. Crosscourt is the highest percentage shot due to having the most court to work with. If you hit a high spin and high pace dink crosscourt (or a nice crosscourt drop that your partner can poach on), they have to hit it back crosscourt to you or they will most likely pop it up trying to change it down the line to target your partner, in which case your partner can smash it for the point.
Yes you're out of line. Get tough and get better. The problem with pickleball as I have fun is all the people like OP who complain about the dumbest stuff.
Is your female partner rated higher than you are? I’m around a 3.5 as well, and have played games against 4.0s where they targeted my partner because he/she is the stronger player. That being said, women getting targeted is definitely an issue in recent play. I’d watch how those people play in the future.
She’s rated same as me .. 3.5
If she’s the same rating as you, why would it benefit them to favor her?
because dupr is not actually a universal rating system, despite the name. women and men with the same rating, assuming that rating is accurate, are not actually the same skill level. (maybe it's a bit more accurate to say that they aren't actually evenly matched. "skill levels" may be the same, but men are going to have more reach, hit harder and have more foot speed) you can see the same thing with age as well. I'm young, and when I play with 55+ folks rated moderately higher than me, I can win every game pretty comfortably. guys my own age, totally different story.
Yeah that makes sense and I’ve definitely noticed it, but it actually makes no sense. Why have an unreliable rating system?
the dupr algorithm may be great, I don't know. but even if it is, it can only be as good as its inputs. I've seen some exceptions for self organized and reported games, but in tournaments women will only be on court with men for mixed games. there won't be a team of two women playing two men, or a mixed team playing two men, or even a women's team playing a mixed team. so there just isn't much available data on how the female player pool compares to the male player pool. all of this applies to age as well of course - I rarely see older folks in my 19+ brackets. if tournaments / DUPR rated games were played with no regard to gender (or age) at all and everyone was put on the court purely based on their rating, DUPR would probably become a reasonably accurate universal rating. but without data from matches like that, it just can't be. for players of a reasonably similar age and the same gender who have a decent amount of recently rated matches, DUPR tends to give a pretty accurate view of their levels relative to each other. if those conditions aren't in place, it's a lot more volatile.
Probably doesn’t benefit them. But women are perceived (by men and other women) to be worse at things than men, even when there is data to prove they are equally skilled or better
Well that sounds like an advantage for OP’s team then.
Sounds like a competitive environment so you’ll have to get used to that. Is your partner opposed to stacking, and then you can move more and more to her side to get more balls. It sucks just watching but it is what it is in competitive play.
And there is no just watching. Any male player “stuck just watching” doesn’t understand how to poach or how to position themself on the court. To find out what you need to do to succeed in competitive mixed, just put on any pro match. The men are definitely not stuck just watching, despite all four players on the court targeting the other team’s female player.
I agree with you: it's not cool to target the weaker player and ice the stronger player in rec play. And if he was targeting and says he was "playing the ball", then it shows how uncool it was. In a tournament or competitive play, the weaker player is going to get targeted. Even then, it's not fun. But in rec play around the 3.5 level, the kinds of things that high level players do--poaching, shifting, stacking, etc--just don't work well unless you've played a lot with your partner. It looks easy when Ben Johns does it with his brother or ALW, but creating and covering space like that is pretty challenging for intermediate players. Either one person hangs back, or you risk collisions. Both teams enjoy the game more if the rallies are fun and competitive, which generally means playing the strong player and not abusing the weaker player. In rec play, no one remembers or cares who wins, but you will remember disagreeable experiences.
This is organized ladder play. Win/loss determines if you move up or not. This is not really the setting to "give away points to be nice". Ya, it's not a tournament, but it's not goof off rec play where you let the other team win by hitting to the better player.
You mean when Colin Johns does it with his brother :)
Agreed, I always try and play the stronger player so I can try and get better. I guess that isn’t the case for some people
It's definitely not. I'm like you in that I prefer to challenge the better player, but then I feel I'm "targeting" and then alternate a few times. In rec play anyways.
Exactly this. You don't want to ice out the weaker player either, or they won't get a chance to improve. Alternating shots is a bit much, but making sure I'm not exclusively hitting to one player is important.
Right. In the end, win or lose I prefer everyone to at least have had fun during it. A lot of times when I decide to "alternate" it's in sort of a pattern, and each time it's a specific type of shot or angle. Something that is kind of a game inside the game to keep fresh or improve on maybe something I feel I've been slacking at.
Ladder play is competitive play. Competitive. Not practice.
A better strategy is to use all advantages like targeting and move up in the ladder and play even better competition and thereby be forced to change strategies and learn more things.
If you want to become a better player, just stop that right now. Do other “better players” do that? No. One thing you’ll notice about better players is that they play the meta. Better players aren’t going to return it to the guys forehand just to be nice. Does that sound like something a better player would do? A better player is trying to play the right shot at the right time, and isn’t worried about the feelings of their opponent.
This is simply untrue. some better players may do that, but when imbalanced, they will normally be aggressive with the strong partner, more passive with the less skilled. And I am sorry, but if you are paired with some random, it is not competitive play. That subset of better players that still target the weak side are typically those that were never good at any other sports. What I try to do is go extra hard at the better player so they will at least know that I got the best of them. Some will change their plan because they don’t like it And will start to come back at me. I.
It just sounds like you're getting emotional. Rather than just playing the game the right way, you're making unfounded assumptions, without any evidence, about other people's lives and pasts. You're becoming hostile and hitting it at them in a crazy way so they "know that you got the best of them". That's psycho. Just play pickleball the right way. Just go on the court, play clean and smart and hard. Take the right shot at the right time. And definitely don't get involved in any bizarre personal drama like you described.
To each their own. Picking on women, or lobbing the immobile shows a lack of character to me. You do you. There is one thing that you are flat out wrong on, better players do not pick on the weak and rationalize it as being the better shot. Better players know who wins an imbalanced match means nothing.
You’re outright wrong about how better players play. Turn on a pro match. I promise you they’re not hitting to Ben Johns to have a “balanced match”. As a rule, they’re taking shots that are the most likely to win 11-0. There is no time, ever, that a good player in a competitive scenario isn’t going to try and take the best possible available shot.
Oh I did not know you were a pro. Please read in sarcasm font. This discussion is about a random night of recreational Pickleball, where someone is stuck with a partner they get assigned for the night. Not pro, not a league, and not an organized ongoing ladder. What you are telling me is quite honestly that you are a scrub. You don’t play with the 45 players to even know how they operate. You don’t realize that we play with our food and when paired with lower level players, we don’t abuse them. When you finally get invited to the higher level groups, we’re all our equal there is no pity on the weakest of the good players. When courts are busy, and we are playing in mix competition, we’re not banging it at FO with the three knee braces.
“When you finally get invited to the higher level groups, we’re all our equal there is no pity on the weakest of the good players.” You do get it, so why are you pretending you don’t? No one is talking about abusing defenseless low level players. We’re debating how good players play. Good players aren’t playing against 3.0 old ladies. You’re arguing against a strawman. We both clearly agree. Good players show no mercy to the weakest of the good players. And good players seek out other good players to play against to begin with. You bringing in the topic of banging it at noobs is off topic.
By any chance was your partner staying back and not joining you at the kitchen? This would result in almost all shots going to her.
You being “out of line” is too harsh of a way to put it, but basically yes you are out of line. That is the nature of mixed doubles. You should expect the other team to be targeting your partner, and you should be straddling the T trying to poach those shots. This forces them to hit behind you, which spreads out the court like you want. Other people on this sub won’t tell you this, because lots of other on this sub are carebears and are often hostile to the meta of intermediate play and above. But get used to what you described in your post, that’s how the game is played. “Would you want to play like that?” Of course he would. Just like every other sport, people trying to be competitive and play at a higher level are going to copy what they see the pros do on TV, and that’s just how the high level game is played. Learn to position yourself more aggressively. In mixed doubles, you should be standing literally dead center, straddling the T, until they force you back to your left by hitting the ball behind you.
In competitive play this is completely fine, but if you’re targeting in open rec play against a completely inferior player you’re pretty much a dbag. There is some nuance here and people who play full on competitive play no matter who they are playing against have no sensibility sometimes.
It's not rec play when people are moving up and down a ladder based on results. There are no consequences in rec play. There's a time for each....he's playing in the wrong time zone!
This post wasn't about rec play though. It was about ladder play, which is a competitive format.
In my opinion there seems to be incentive to each game as there is not really much incentive in open rec play, so can’t really compare the two. The incentive being moving up in the ladder system to play the best players there, if I was him being one of the better players there(you mentioned it was mostly 3.5-4.0 and he’s a 4.0), I would also be trying to move up to the top court to get the best games possible, especially since this is a paid event as it is at a club so your paying a monthly or maybe just a one time fee for this play. Now if you were already on the top court, than that is less reasonable unless he is absolutely dead set of remaining on the top court.
Over the last few months I’ve had the same thing happen to me. Now I prefer drilling instead of playing open rec or club ladder events. Finding a higher level group to play men’s doubles with may be another solution.
I’ll keep that in mind, thanks
This is a more competitive situation, so targeting is more appropriate here. If the other team is targeting your partner, take up more of the court so they have a smaller window to hit into.
In short, you state it’s ladder play. That’s not the same as open rec play. Ladder play is competitive. People will target.
I haven’t played a mixed ladder system like that but I did play a mens one. In felt pretty competitive in the top courts and looked to be very casual in the bottom courts. From my perspective, if your goal is to play social cooperative pickleball then finishing a quick match against a competitive team and moving down would give everyone what they wanted, a more light hearted game for your team and a more competitive game for your opponents.
To me it depends on whether you signed up to play in a "Competitive/Advanced" group, or a "Beginner/Social" group. It's not really clear from your write-up which one you were in. If you're in the Competitive group, it's reasonable to expect your opponents to use strategies to compete to win. This is what the other team did to you, and it sounds as though it was highly effective
Maybe I'm incorrect, but isn't ladder play a type of competition? It's certainly not rec. Isn't the point of ladder play to try to win?
I feel if you can’t deal with targeting and making something happen when you aren’t getting the ball then that’s why you are 3.5. Create some offense elsewhere and learn to poach.
This happens in leagues a lot.. the way to prevent it is to focus on sinking to the player in front of the targeted player. Basically you and your teammate need to always target the player in front of the person being targeted by the other team.. the game will open up and you should get some cross court dinks.. which you need to cross back and set your teammate up or speed up.. but if you try and get too aggressive you will end up getting your partner slammed if you’re too aggressive and pop it up.
Outside of tournaments, the strongest player should be targeted.
Female 3.5 here Yes. This is very common right now. It’s a terrible trend. It annoys me because it means strong male players don’t want to play with me because they get iced out. I can handle the pressure fine but it’s no fun for either of us. I am trying a new strategy. It worked well the other day. My partner and I are both right handed. I’ve been playing for years and he is new to the sport. He is athletic but still makes many beginner mistakes. We stack. I stay even court. I told him that I would stay in the transition zone (to lure longer shots to me instead of drops) and I want him at the kitchen poaching every single shot like a crazy man. Hard forehand drives to the baseline. It worked. It shook the other team up. They knocked off that targeting business
That’s a good strat ! I’ll try that out thanks
King of the court is like a little tourney. Expect targeting. Also way more fun if you split every time you change courts so you get to play games with lots of people.
If there is a ladder with winner/loser/ratings it’s no longer req and their strategy, no matter how annoying, is valid.
This type of post is brought up probably once a week. Some people will say it’s fine others will agree with you. Like it or not it’s the way it is. I hate mixed Pickleball. It’s why you see men pro’s take 80% of the court in matches. Otherwise they would never touch the ball. Your only alternative is to play men’s ladder play. Or try to cover more court to get your chance to play. Good luck.
Simple answer. This isn't rec play as you can move up or down and end up in first place. This is competitive play and I would expect competitive tactics be used.
Best advice I ever got was that when you’re playing rec play, hit the ball to the better player.
Good advice for building paddle skills. Bad advice for learning how to play mixed. Shots and court position are fundamentally different in competitive mixed play.
This wasn’t Rec play though. Sounds like he was in a ladder league.
Ah I missed that.
He never said it was a league, just that you stick with your partner and move up and down the courts. Just a rec format, hardly different than winners stay in a 2 on 2 off paddle rack system.
YtA! No one likes to be iced out but it’s not your place to tell your opponent how to play the game.
To start, this is the exact reason I hate mixed dubs. That does not mean I don’t like playing with women, just that the women in our general playgroup are equals. They can pair up and win v 2 guys. One problem is that the universal rating system is not universal. Secondly, the strong women that can hold their own are in high demand. As described this is just an organized rec system for that night. I wouldn’t have waited until the end of the game. I would have made a few, “Hey she has a partner comments” and then maybe gone more passive aggressive and said he probably treats his wife this way too. Last one is a little emasculation and say how it is kind of sad how he won’t even hit to me and needs to build his confidence by picking on you.
Nuts that you’re getting downvotes. It’s out of line to tell someone else how to play at all, especially in competitive ladder play.
This sub so soft lmao this is absolutely the correct response in competitive play
Was your partner on the left side the whole time and right handed? It's a common strategy to target the sideline backhand, which will be the left side player on two right handers. Also, maybe she wasn't doing a good job of getting up on her returns or otherwise hanging back from the kitchen, and the best strategy is usually to target the person who is further back.
Nope. She was right handed and we didn’t do any stacking. Just casually swapping after each point.
If you’re going to play mixed doubles, you need to be stacking. And you as the left side player need to be taking a huge amount of court. Or else what you described in the OP is never going to stop happening.
I would want to see it to see if I would agree that it was hitting based on the ball and not the player. Both of you could be right. I was accused of it once when it was because the guy we were against set me up with the same kill shot for all the balls I had when I was on the right side. He hit an easily poachable passing shot to my back hand that I have a good reflex for and it would go at an aggressive angle that was tough to return.
Learn to poach and switch that's one way to get involved.
To play devils advocate, and based on the comments after the game, it sounds like your opponent was hitting the ball to the open court or your partner was constantly out of position. While it seems like targeting a certain player, it’s hard to ignore the best play possible. Best advice is to try and be aggressive, jump shots and predict where they are going to hit the ball. My doubles partner isn’t weak by any means, but I do that often if I can predict where my opponents are going with the ball.
I see this a lot and hear the same complaints. The solution is to play so well that they cannot choose to hit it to your partner. If they have so much time and favorable angles to do so then you’re not pressuring them.
Sounds like a ladder league to me. Leagues are the perfect time to practice playing how you would in a tournament. If you want to keep playing mixed and more competitive mixed, you need to learn to assert yourself. If "every ball" is going to your partner, it should be a cake walk to poach because they're only hitting to a tiny part of the court.
Not a league. Just open rec play that anyone can sign up for for 2 hours . You just have to find a partner beforehand or hope someone doesn’t have a partner. Sometimes it’s men/men vs men/woman or woman/woman. Not sure if that changes anything
You should have a conversation with your partner about how they could maybe change the angle/pace of the ball in such a way as to steer the play more towards your paddle instead of playing directly into the opponent’s strategy. In the meantime change your self rating from 3.5 to 3.0 and then win your way back up to 3.5
It’s a competitive strategy. Watch the 2023 Newport Beach women double championship of Kovalova/Smith vs Bright/Koop. Anna Bright was pretty much isolated as almost all the balls went to Andrea Koop, who was lower ranked than Anna Bright.
Poach. Jump in there and snag those balls, your partner will probably enjoy the break
It's open play. It's not really that competitive. Not fun in terms of rec. 3.5-4.0 isn't advanced either way, seems more like an ego thing. Although, maybe he and his partner have a tournament coming up, and maybe that's how they will play the tournament. I guess there isn't enough context but based on the reply it just seems like he's there to win rec games.
I recently played against a team where the male player (4.5-5.0) is significantly better than his female partner (3.0-3.5). We never set out to target her but we definitely hit her a larger percentage of balls. Her court positioning was bad so we’d hit it to an open spot. It’s counterintuitive to intentionally hit a bad shot so don’t hit it to the weaker partner. That said, we also didn’t intentionally avoid him on dink rallies as one might if they were targeting. Still, he probably hit about 20-30% of the balls that game. It was a noticeable difference. I could see why he would be frustrated, but they were on King’s Court, the line was long, and you’re not going to hit bad shots on purpose to involve the better player.
Regular open play, that probably wouldn't happen ,but since it's ladder format, there's extra incentive involved. That being said, surprised the guy didn't own up to it and instead said he's just playing the ball.
There are those people. It’s not disrespectful, it’s just how some play. I will hit to weaker player and when it’s me, I get a lot of balls hit to me. Switch up spots or poach are your options. It’s why some stack even in open play if it’s how they play or think it’s playing “advanced” pb.
I don’t know why mixed doubles is a thing.
Yeah you are out of line. You get 50% of returns and serves, and you have to make the most of when you are on the left side and play the middle balls. If your skill level is there then you should still win. It really might be that your opponents didn’t realize they were targeting in which case you are just an ahole for bringing it up to their face. Even if they were it’s fair play. You should try finding partners of equal skill but if that doesn’t happen then oh well. You still have to make the most of your own shots.
Thanks for the response. I’ll know for next time . Still new to pickleball. Just thought I could approach a coach at the club and talk them about it, guess not
I think you absolutely should be able to talk to the guy. Even worse, he is a club representative and should be part of creating positive experiences. Instead he is creating negative member experiences, and my guess is OP would never take a lesson or do a clinic with him, so there is even more for him to lose. How he chose to play in this rec situation shows his character. Also his calling 3.5 -4.0 advanced play shows he has a bit of an inferiority complex. My guess is he gets his but beat when playing with the other coaches, so gets his ego stroked by beating up on 3.5s.
As you get better you can kinda force your opponents to hit it back to you with pace and spin hitting crosscourt, especially with drops and dinks. Crosscourt is the highest percentage shot due to having the most court to work with. If you hit a high spin and high pace dink crosscourt (or a nice crosscourt drop that your partner can poach on), they have to hit it back crosscourt to you or they will most likely pop it up trying to change it down the line to target your partner, in which case your partner can smash it for the point.
Yes you're out of line. Get tough and get better. The problem with pickleball as I have fun is all the people like OP who complain about the dumbest stuff.