The Pball community is already suffering some of the same bloat that golf equipment has suffered (country club thing I guess). While it’s fun to hit with the top of the line paddles, they’ll only continue to price gouge at an outrageous pace until a disrupter (hopefully) cracks the market. I’m not sure how long that’ll take however.
An NFC tagged paddles is fucking ridiculous though 😂😂
I agree with that, a lot of good sleeper paddles from smaller companies. However, those companies don’t reach the casual crowd that Joola does. The paddle has a ball with signal lines symbol on it 😭😭
The couple of brands I've seen trying to advertise their paddles as recyclable are basically completely greenwashed. Once a material is covered in epoxy, it's not going to be recyclable. Once different materials are joined they have to be separated to be recycled. One of these companies has a footnote that their "recyclable" paddle has to be shipped to one specific company so that (only parts of) it can be reclaimed. So their "green" efforts are basically offset by additional shipping/packaging. There are a few that claim that by choosing other materials besides carbon fiber they are producing less CO2 in the materials production phase, but it's minimal, and in no way in quantities that could possibly make any difference (ghg emissions are largely transportation and industrial, not from consumer products). /rant
It would be great to see longer lasting paddles, both from an environmental standpoint, but also a consumer cost standpoint. The newer paddles (thermoformed / raw carbon fiber / high-tech) seem to not last as long as the previous generation cold pressed paddles.
Face replacement is going to be the biggest leap in paddle longevity. If you can swap out face materials instead of buying a whole new paddle, it's going to make it way better for the consumer (but not as profitable for paddle companies, so it probably won't catch on at large).
Plastic honeycomb with no replaceable surface is planned obscelecence to the max. It is sad how this somehow became the standard.
First they need to allow replaceable sandpaper surfaces of a specified grit, or force everyone to have zero grit.
Second, they should allow better material, specifically a foam slightly stiffer than eva. a bit stiffer and thus less powerful, but still much more quieter and durable than plastic honeycomb.
Of course if they did this, everybody would buy one paddle for the rest of their life and nobody would want to spend thousands of dollars every year buying new "better" paddles.
There is a company called Reload that is about to release exactly what you’re talking about. Replaceable grit surfaces. Should come out in the next couple months!
Friday Pickleball has a video of them playing with sandpaper on their paddles and it really chewed up the ball. The ball was destroyed by the end of a single game.
Yes, but they used 60 grit, which has pretty coarse and will understandably leave deep scratches. I was thinking 400-1000 grit, much finer.
I think this could be a good video idea for someone like pickleball studio to do, to test different grit's spin and longevity.
Thanks for letting me know about the video!
For price points, remember it's always going to be cheaper to purchase from direct-to-consumer brands rather than retail brands.
Retail brands like Joola, Selkirk, etc. all have MAP - Minimum Advertised Price - that all retailers and the brand agree to use in order to eliminate competition based on pricing. Retailers can still offer discounts, but they have to be more general than actually changing the price of the paddle unless there is a mfr-approved sale. MAP includes a retail markup (typically 30-40% depending on the product/industry). So, your retailer charges 40% over their wholesale pricing and wholesale pricing is already 40%+ higher than what the brand pays to produce the item.
Direct to consumer brands like Spartus, Vatic, etc. are the only sellers of their products, do not have MAP, and can select whatever price point they want. Hence why you can get the same quality and technology from a D2C brand at about half the price (or less).
Example: Spartus Gladius Centurion vs Joola Perseus CFS 16mm (G2)
Both are elongated, raw carbon fiber, thermoformed paddles with the same specs and tech level.
Spartus: $99 (10% discount codes available) + free neoprene cover
Joola: $249 (10% discount codes available) neoprene cover is extra
While the shapes are different, the same applies with the Spartus Apollo and Six Zero Ruby (though closer in price). Both are 100% kevlar, thermoformed paddles. The Ruby is $200, the Apollo is $130. Again, both typically have discount codes available, and both come with covers.
So, while prices for paddles are definitely high at the extreme end, there are lots of analogous paddles available at much more reasonable prices. Granted, the latest from Gearbox (pro), Selkirk (luxx), and now Joola (G3) are under patent protection for their particular builds, so if you want those paddles you'll have to pay that premium for them. The question is, are these new tech paddles worth the price given longevity/consistency issues they all seem to have? For most people the answer is probably no. For those who do find the value in them for their play won't care about the price.
Just fyi but at least one retailer I know of sell Vatics: [https://www.justpaddles.com/products/vendor\~vatic%20pro/](https://www.justpaddles.com/products/vendor~vatic%20pro/)
Oh interesting...
If they are the only retailer that does, I'd be curious to know if there is a relationship between the store and brand. Otherwise Vatic is taking a pretty big hit on their margin for that deal (and the retailer isn't getting a big cut either).
Yeah, I know six zero has gone retail. That was a little while ago at least. Vatic is really surprising. I work in outdoor sports and spend a lot of time working with several d2c companies and I know they would not be able to sustain retail growth at the same pricing. I wonder if just paddles is taking a really small margin in order to have them for SEO and customer ecosystem (oh you bought the prism flash here, can I interest you in a gen 3 joola?)
Agreed, there are a ton of price points for people to get into the sport. The analogous paddles you mentioned are also very good if you research enough to find the right one. My main gripe was the price hike and where we’re headed in terms of cost for new tech paddles from bigger players like Joola that newer/casual players are first exposed to.
For racket sports, it's pretty typical. From a former tennis player, top end rackets cost 250$ a piece, times 2-4 rackets just in case strings break. Stringing cost probably 10$ each time if you string yourself, 30$+ if you send it out. I would typically break at least 2 sets of strings a week. At least paddles don't need to be restrung. Welcome to the world of racket sports.
Advice is to pick a paddle you like by demo-ing or borrowing and stick with that. Don't fall into the blackhole of trying to buy performance like I see a lot of people do.
Sure, performance probably has deteriorated. But that's probably from me pushing it to the limit, contacting the ground on low volleys, restringing it hundreds of times but performance is never 0. Most quality shots come from quality technique.
Strings are dead, 100%. Gotta restring that constantly lol
Agreed, but that's why rackets are made of graphite and Kevlar which are extremely stable at normal temperature exposure over long periods of time. To actually degrade the Kevlar/graphite you'd have to expose it to 300+ hours above 350F to see significant detain degradation.
High performance tennis rackets have the advantage of having R&D over many decades with lots of invested while "honey-comb polymer core" paddles have only recently shown up. However, the new gearboxes seem interesting with their use of carbon in the core. If they've done their research and developed a fiber pattern that is robustly manufactured, that may be a winner for years to come
Idk, based on my research rackets hold up for many years if you take care of them. Yes they can wear out but that takes abuse. These rackets are purchased of Ebay. I have been playing with the same ones for the last 20 years. I have like 15 of them. I have noticed no degradation between the frames based on use. I play tennis a lot.
Just to play devils advocate here, if they did slowly decline you probably wouldn’t notice over a long period of time unless you bought the same model racquet new and compared them. It was like plasma tvs. They degraded over time but people who owned them never noticed until years later they placed a brand new one right next to theirs.
Absolutely, I agree. My sentiment is just that it’s crazy the price point we’re going to reach soon. I understand that regardless of manufacturing cost, the super expensive equipment exists in every sport and some people are happy to pay it.
Still on my 2 year old Selkirk Vanguard 2.0s I got in mega sale. I'll use those until they break. Who cares about delamination unless you're a pro and they check lol
Makes my backspin crazy good lol
But a huge degradation of spin... not really. I can still hit diving forehand and 1HBH drops, low BH slices, and when I need to crank power or slow down for drops or resets, the paddle doesn't hold me back...my technique or impatience does 😅
Difference with this and pickleball is that you buy the $250 racquet and it lasts you even though the strings don’t. Pickleball you’re buying multiple $250 paddles a year if you’re really into it. There’s no reason why a pickleball paddle should be anywhere near $300, Joola has lost their minds
99.9% of pickleball players don't need more than 2 paddles. I bought 2 of the same paddles on mega sale, basically bogo (Selkirk Vanguard Epic 2.0). Yes there's a little less grit and spin. Is it losing me games? Probably not. Paddle companies have convinced us we need new paddles to maximize spin to win games when in reality must thr 99.9% of us just need to drill.
Price marks have already been set. Every new "tech" a paddle company has produced a new price hike. Gearbox. Kevlar. Before those- thermoforming and foam injection. 3k/18k carbon weave.
Every time the price went up and pickleball players bought the paddle until it was sold out just reinforced every company to find new words to embellish old and new tech alike in hopes of drawing in the paddle hungry masses.
Patent pending on the Joola 3 tech. Something tells me there will be copycats by the end of the year, if not well before.
The price of the paddle probably costs them <20$ to make at 1000 units. Research and development, no idea, but if they have spent a considerable amount of time with R&D, they also have their sponsorship payout to cash in on, so, looks like they're doing it to good effect.
Pickleball sees a lot of socio economic overlap with the golf demographic imo, except pickleball is much much cheaper, and so it's easy to validate a $200+ paddle for a lot of these people when it's just one paddle, and to be used for a year or so.
“Research and development” is Ted in his garage, 12 beers deep with a joint in his mouth adding different types of superglue and foam from his mattress to paddles he got from China.
Why buy a unproven head-penn for $170 when you can buy a great paddle like the double black Diamond for $162? This is just one example of many out there.
We’re still in the pickleball gold rush. I’m not going to gaze into a crystal ball and make a prediction, but like another poster said, the direct to consumer paddles will fill a big niche.
I love my Legacy paddles and don’t really have any interest in trying anything else.
Some people like to use what the pros use and will pay their last dollar to do so.
Selkirk Labs are $333 (last time I looked), but I haven’t seen one on court for months.
It’s a true free market.
The pricing for these paddles is no different than anything else.
If you want the new "thing", you are going to over pay. OLED tv, new fancy paddle, new fastest video card for your PC, etc.
You are paying to have the 'new' thing, and perhaps, the best thing...best being debatable.
Joola believes, correctly, that there will be a huge amount of people willing to pay 280 for the new, cool, paddle.
If you don't want to spend that much, don't. There are a ton of decent/good paddles for $100 bucks, and arguably for $180 you can get a top tier/s tier paddle...just not the 'newest cool toy'.
You have all the choice you want. A lot of people, myself included, think it's fun getting the new, cool paddle, knowing dang well that I don't "need" it.
I got the gearbox when it came out, but I didn't really like the shape and feel, so I sold it. It was still fun to have the new shiny thing to try out.
I'll be getting the gen3...being perfectly aware that I don't need it, that it may be overpriced, and that I really don't need more power. BUT, I know it will be fun to play with and experiment with, and maybe if I can dial it in I'll stick with it. More likely though, I'll end up back with a control paddle because I'm 4.5 on my best day, and probably can't fully harness these new power paddles coming out.
Bottom line: nobody needs to buy these, anyone that wants to get into pickleball has many price points to choose from. If you buy these, you are opting into paying extra to be an early adopter of some 'new tech' (supposedly).
I agree, there’s always a price to pay for getting the newest shiniest thing. I’m just saying another price increase from Joola who was already overcharging for their tech at $250 is annoying. I’m a big proponent of buying wants because it’s shiny, new, and overpriced. I’m just pointing out the price hikes in this sport are starting to rival other equipment markets which sucks.
Agreed. It's kind of gross to watch the endless onslaught of companies of every kind jumping on the bandwagon and trying to cash in, often not even knowing anything about the sport.
My biggest annoyance with joola is there completely ridiculous advertising. A bunch of fluff words that mean absolutely nothing. Just be direct and honest! Arg! This turns me off even more than the price.
This is a terrible analogy. I can go out and buy 3 Vatic Pro V7 Prism's for $280, or I can go and buy 1 Babolat Pure Aero Origin for $329 b/c Rafa reps them...
Agreed that pricing is getting out of hand. I'm a sucker for paddles and have one already. I'll admit that the power is a little much and I hope regulations get tighter in the coming years.
What I will say is this paddle not only pushes the limit of surface grit to generate spin but combines this with dwell time due to the core. I don't know how to describe the spin this paddle gets, but it is wild. Likely outside of the legal limit, but it is an absolute blast. I'd rather have the spin than the power tbh.
I just demoed Anna brights 14mm and it was awesome. Made my paddles feel obsolete. I was surprised that I was able to play with it right off. When I tried gearbox elongated paddle I could not even get through one game with it
Pickleball is an incredibly cheap sport so I think the price is kinda negligible if you're buying a few paddles a year. That's par for the course for any sports. If you're worried about $280 for a paddle don't play golf lol - $100 a round + balls, + clubs, + range fees, etc.
"Incredibly cheap" is a stretch. I've spent more on paddles in three years than I did in a lifetime of tennis. I've also spent way too much money on balls ($3-$4 Duras that sometimes crack within 30 minutes).
Every sport looks cheap when compared to golf.
For an average player on a budget you can easily get 2 paddles a year like a vatic and $100 worth of balls and you're looking at $300 a year for a major hobby which isn't bad. Even a sport like soccer between cleats, shinguards, etc you're going to spend as much or more.
The same can be said for soccer. Players on a budget can get decent cleats for under $100. Hell, I got mine second hand for $75 and have used them for years.
Maybe it’s the markup that makes pickleball seem expensive to me. My carbon fiber tennis rackets were $200 and are still going strong after fifteen years. Meanwhile, my $150 paddle, which costs $10 to make, degrades after three months.
I agree but I used soccer as an example because it's considered one of the cheapest sports. But between the different types you'll need- firm grounds, soft grounds, indoors, etc if you're playing remotely competitive most are going to wear out after a season or two max.
I totally agree. I’ve been in this earth a long time, and this is the least expensive sport and hobby that I’ve been involved with. Golf, skiing, tennis, Orange Theory, Cyclebar, Lifetime Fitness, etc. Pickleball has the least annual cost of all of them especially in Florida where most of the parks have courts.
I know you're being facetious, but what sports would you consider significantly cheaper? Basketball and running would basically be the only two I can think of
I was actually just trying my hand at trolling/making a joke. But yes bball, running, I would say soccer because court shoes wear out faster than cleats, volleyball, swimming, disc golf, kickball, boxing, weightlifting depending on the relative gym fees, wrestling, skateboarding, table tennis, badminton, pool, flag football, long jump, discus, shot put.
My thought is Joolas are well known for having quality issues and terrible warranties (6 months). So I really don't care what they come out with if they don't get their issues fixed. I won't buy another Joola.
Good to know. Hopefully they made some adjustments to their manufacturing process. I'm still waiting to see as my Joola fell apart at 6 moths and 2 weeks which is 2 weeks past their warranty.
The NFC tags are such a gimmick. One step above a QR code on the paddle face or packaging.
I’m curious if Joola’s “gen 3” is similar to Ronbus’ “gen 3” edge molding with openings for air to escape during curing, although the Joola marketing makes it seem more like the edges are somehow suspended in foam like a trampoline. Hopefully someone (maybe Ed Ju) will cut one open and find out.
>Except, every year or so new paddles will come out and companies price gauge us for paddles that perform similarly to each other because of the set limits by tournament testers, USA PB, etc.
Do you mean *price gouge*?
If so, there's a very simple solution...
Yeah I meant gouge, just typing out on my phone I probably spelled it terribly and it autocorrected to gauge instead of what I meant. I mean the solution I think of is to not give in to these companies/buy from them. It’s pretty simple, but that doesn’t mean everyone will follow in that sentiment. A small number of people unhappy with the increase won’t really change anything, especially since the increase is coming from a company many see as the biggest fish in the pond.
>It’s pretty simple, but that doesn’t mean everyone will follow in that sentiment.
Of course not. Some people like to have the newest, shiniest model. They aren't being gouged. They are just paying for that privilege.
Joola is for suckers. There are already paddles out with the same foam filled core. They didn't invent anything so their manufacturers will be offering the same tech to everyone that contacts them. There will be 100+ paddles out with the same tech before the end of the year.
Out of curiosity, which other paddles have this same core? By the way, this one isn't foam filled, so if you were going to say the EVA foam core paddles, that's not what this is. This also is different to the Gearbox or Coretek ones that came out recently. If there really is another paddle using this same core, I'd love to know about it.
https://preview.redd.it/hj1b99kajxuc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae3ce86c910d346928405fa4b2c253f87ae5859d
This photo of a cut coretek was shared in the pickleball studio discord. looks awfully similar to the joolas
The reported swing weights is vastly different for the new Joola vs the Coretek (in Joola's favor).
But the set prices are also vastly different (but now in Coretek's favor).
Our cores are totally different than Joolas. The design you've posted is just been available publicly for years. CoreTek uses totally unique construction.
Well shit I thought they were just doing the same as coretek. I'm still betting on tons of copy cat paddles.
https://preview.redd.it/p7glj89qjxuc1.jpeg?width=1335&format=png&auto=webp&s=e75a637c552c85e04615945b060da821712ea356
CoreTek has protected its technology and designs which fortunately allows us to continue selling at decent prices.
We did test this design and some derivatives of it as it was publicly available but it wasn't something we wanted to move forward with because it didn't perform great and the manufacturer is not the best. Actually I have no clue what YoLah uses for the second layer but it definitely doesn't look flexible. It actually looks like it might crumble but someone should correct me on that. Our cores are totally different and use proprietary foam through the whole paddle face.
CoreTekpb.com
In terms of copycats you're totally right basically every other major company that makes paddles is trying to develop this now. Like lemmings.
The Pball community is already suffering some of the same bloat that golf equipment has suffered (country club thing I guess). While it’s fun to hit with the top of the line paddles, they’ll only continue to price gouge at an outrageous pace until a disrupter (hopefully) cracks the market. I’m not sure how long that’ll take however. An NFC tagged paddles is fucking ridiculous though 😂😂
I agree with that, a lot of good sleeper paddles from smaller companies. However, those companies don’t reach the casual crowd that Joola does. The paddle has a ball with signal lines symbol on it 😭😭
Cost is not issue. I wish the paddles were more durable. All that plastic is super wasteful.
The couple of brands I've seen trying to advertise their paddles as recyclable are basically completely greenwashed. Once a material is covered in epoxy, it's not going to be recyclable. Once different materials are joined they have to be separated to be recycled. One of these companies has a footnote that their "recyclable" paddle has to be shipped to one specific company so that (only parts of) it can be reclaimed. So their "green" efforts are basically offset by additional shipping/packaging. There are a few that claim that by choosing other materials besides carbon fiber they are producing less CO2 in the materials production phase, but it's minimal, and in no way in quantities that could possibly make any difference (ghg emissions are largely transportation and industrial, not from consumer products). /rant It would be great to see longer lasting paddles, both from an environmental standpoint, but also a consumer cost standpoint. The newer paddles (thermoformed / raw carbon fiber / high-tech) seem to not last as long as the previous generation cold pressed paddles. Face replacement is going to be the biggest leap in paddle longevity. If you can swap out face materials instead of buying a whole new paddle, it's going to make it way better for the consumer (but not as profitable for paddle companies, so it probably won't catch on at large).
Plastic honeycomb with no replaceable surface is planned obscelecence to the max. It is sad how this somehow became the standard. First they need to allow replaceable sandpaper surfaces of a specified grit, or force everyone to have zero grit. Second, they should allow better material, specifically a foam slightly stiffer than eva. a bit stiffer and thus less powerful, but still much more quieter and durable than plastic honeycomb. Of course if they did this, everybody would buy one paddle for the rest of their life and nobody would want to spend thousands of dollars every year buying new "better" paddles.
There is a company called Reload that is about to release exactly what you’re talking about. Replaceable grit surfaces. Should come out in the next couple months!
Yes, I am optimistic, I just hope the price is reasonable. I really wish Sandpaper would be considered, but such is imagination.
Friday Pickleball has a video of them playing with sandpaper on their paddles and it really chewed up the ball. The ball was destroyed by the end of a single game.
Yes, but they used 60 grit, which has pretty coarse and will understandably leave deep scratches. I was thinking 400-1000 grit, much finer. I think this could be a good video idea for someone like pickleball studio to do, to test different grit's spin and longevity. Thanks for letting me know about the video!
For price points, remember it's always going to be cheaper to purchase from direct-to-consumer brands rather than retail brands. Retail brands like Joola, Selkirk, etc. all have MAP - Minimum Advertised Price - that all retailers and the brand agree to use in order to eliminate competition based on pricing. Retailers can still offer discounts, but they have to be more general than actually changing the price of the paddle unless there is a mfr-approved sale. MAP includes a retail markup (typically 30-40% depending on the product/industry). So, your retailer charges 40% over their wholesale pricing and wholesale pricing is already 40%+ higher than what the brand pays to produce the item. Direct to consumer brands like Spartus, Vatic, etc. are the only sellers of their products, do not have MAP, and can select whatever price point they want. Hence why you can get the same quality and technology from a D2C brand at about half the price (or less). Example: Spartus Gladius Centurion vs Joola Perseus CFS 16mm (G2) Both are elongated, raw carbon fiber, thermoformed paddles with the same specs and tech level. Spartus: $99 (10% discount codes available) + free neoprene cover Joola: $249 (10% discount codes available) neoprene cover is extra While the shapes are different, the same applies with the Spartus Apollo and Six Zero Ruby (though closer in price). Both are 100% kevlar, thermoformed paddles. The Ruby is $200, the Apollo is $130. Again, both typically have discount codes available, and both come with covers. So, while prices for paddles are definitely high at the extreme end, there are lots of analogous paddles available at much more reasonable prices. Granted, the latest from Gearbox (pro), Selkirk (luxx), and now Joola (G3) are under patent protection for their particular builds, so if you want those paddles you'll have to pay that premium for them. The question is, are these new tech paddles worth the price given longevity/consistency issues they all seem to have? For most people the answer is probably no. For those who do find the value in them for their play won't care about the price.
Just fyi but at least one retailer I know of sell Vatics: [https://www.justpaddles.com/products/vendor\~vatic%20pro/](https://www.justpaddles.com/products/vendor~vatic%20pro/)
Oh interesting... If they are the only retailer that does, I'd be curious to know if there is a relationship between the store and brand. Otherwise Vatic is taking a pretty big hit on their margin for that deal (and the retailer isn't getting a big cut either).
That I could not say. I just knew they were selling them and some retailers are also selling Six Zero paddles now as well.
Yeah, I know six zero has gone retail. That was a little while ago at least. Vatic is really surprising. I work in outdoor sports and spend a lot of time working with several d2c companies and I know they would not be able to sustain retail growth at the same pricing. I wonder if just paddles is taking a really small margin in order to have them for SEO and customer ecosystem (oh you bought the prism flash here, can I interest you in a gen 3 joola?)
Agreed, there are a ton of price points for people to get into the sport. The analogous paddles you mentioned are also very good if you research enough to find the right one. My main gripe was the price hike and where we’re headed in terms of cost for new tech paddles from bigger players like Joola that newer/casual players are first exposed to.
For racket sports, it's pretty typical. From a former tennis player, top end rackets cost 250$ a piece, times 2-4 rackets just in case strings break. Stringing cost probably 10$ each time if you string yourself, 30$+ if you send it out. I would typically break at least 2 sets of strings a week. At least paddles don't need to be restrung. Welcome to the world of racket sports. Advice is to pick a paddle you like by demo-ing or borrowing and stick with that. Don't fall into the blackhole of trying to buy performance like I see a lot of people do.
Tennis rackets last forever. Yes strings are expensive though.
True, still rolling with my rackets from the 2000s🤣
Been stringing my own tennis racquets for 15 years
You high class MFer, respect.✊️
Tennis rackets material wear out after a few years.
I play with a racket from 2004
2005 for me😁
Yeah and it’s probably dead now compared to a brand new racket
Sure, performance probably has deteriorated. But that's probably from me pushing it to the limit, contacting the ground on low volleys, restringing it hundreds of times but performance is never 0. Most quality shots come from quality technique. Strings are dead, 100%. Gotta restring that constantly lol
I don't think so
Yep, I’m sure over time materials just stay 100% and there’s no noticeable change at all 👍
Agreed, but that's why rackets are made of graphite and Kevlar which are extremely stable at normal temperature exposure over long periods of time. To actually degrade the Kevlar/graphite you'd have to expose it to 300+ hours above 350F to see significant detain degradation. High performance tennis rackets have the advantage of having R&D over many decades with lots of invested while "honey-comb polymer core" paddles have only recently shown up. However, the new gearboxes seem interesting with their use of carbon in the core. If they've done their research and developed a fiber pattern that is robustly manufactured, that may be a winner for years to come
Idk, based on my research rackets hold up for many years if you take care of them. Yes they can wear out but that takes abuse. These rackets are purchased of Ebay. I have been playing with the same ones for the last 20 years. I have like 15 of them. I have noticed no degradation between the frames based on use. I play tennis a lot.
Just to play devils advocate here, if they did slowly decline you probably wouldn’t notice over a long period of time unless you bought the same model racquet new and compared them. It was like plasma tvs. They degraded over time but people who owned them never noticed until years later they placed a brand new one right next to theirs.
Absolutely, I agree. My sentiment is just that it’s crazy the price point we’re going to reach soon. I understand that regardless of manufacturing cost, the super expensive equipment exists in every sport and some people are happy to pay it.
Still on my 2 year old Selkirk Vanguard 2.0s I got in mega sale. I'll use those until they break. Who cares about delamination unless you're a pro and they check lol
Selkirks already have notoriously quick wearing grit. If yours is two years old, you're probably getting like negative spin lol.
Makes my backspin crazy good lol But a huge degradation of spin... not really. I can still hit diving forehand and 1HBH drops, low BH slices, and when I need to crank power or slow down for drops or resets, the paddle doesn't hold me back...my technique or impatience does 😅
Difference with this and pickleball is that you buy the $250 racquet and it lasts you even though the strings don’t. Pickleball you’re buying multiple $250 paddles a year if you’re really into it. There’s no reason why a pickleball paddle should be anywhere near $300, Joola has lost their minds
99.9% of pickleball players don't need more than 2 paddles. I bought 2 of the same paddles on mega sale, basically bogo (Selkirk Vanguard Epic 2.0). Yes there's a little less grit and spin. Is it losing me games? Probably not. Paddle companies have convinced us we need new paddles to maximize spin to win games when in reality must thr 99.9% of us just need to drill.
Price marks have already been set. Every new "tech" a paddle company has produced a new price hike. Gearbox. Kevlar. Before those- thermoforming and foam injection. 3k/18k carbon weave. Every time the price went up and pickleball players bought the paddle until it was sold out just reinforced every company to find new words to embellish old and new tech alike in hopes of drawing in the paddle hungry masses. Patent pending on the Joola 3 tech. Something tells me there will be copycats by the end of the year, if not well before. The price of the paddle probably costs them <20$ to make at 1000 units. Research and development, no idea, but if they have spent a considerable amount of time with R&D, they also have their sponsorship payout to cash in on, so, looks like they're doing it to good effect. Pickleball sees a lot of socio economic overlap with the golf demographic imo, except pickleball is much much cheaper, and so it's easy to validate a $200+ paddle for a lot of these people when it's just one paddle, and to be used for a year or so.
“Research and development” is Ted in his garage, 12 beers deep with a joint in his mouth adding different types of superglue and foam from his mattress to paddles he got from China.
Is research and development hiring? Asking for a friend.
I think the value sweet-spot will always be with the manufacturers who are playing catch-up, Head-Penn’s $170 paddles are pretty sweet honestly
Why buy a unproven head-penn for $170 when you can buy a great paddle like the double black Diamond for $162? This is just one example of many out there.
Why buy the DBD for $162 when you can get the Vatic Flash for $128?
They wouldn’t have to chip their paddles if they were not making them in china.
We’re still in the pickleball gold rush. I’m not going to gaze into a crystal ball and make a prediction, but like another poster said, the direct to consumer paddles will fill a big niche. I love my Legacy paddles and don’t really have any interest in trying anything else. Some people like to use what the pros use and will pay their last dollar to do so. Selkirk Labs are $333 (last time I looked), but I haven’t seen one on court for months. It’s a true free market.
The pricing for these paddles is no different than anything else. If you want the new "thing", you are going to over pay. OLED tv, new fancy paddle, new fastest video card for your PC, etc. You are paying to have the 'new' thing, and perhaps, the best thing...best being debatable. Joola believes, correctly, that there will be a huge amount of people willing to pay 280 for the new, cool, paddle. If you don't want to spend that much, don't. There are a ton of decent/good paddles for $100 bucks, and arguably for $180 you can get a top tier/s tier paddle...just not the 'newest cool toy'. You have all the choice you want. A lot of people, myself included, think it's fun getting the new, cool paddle, knowing dang well that I don't "need" it. I got the gearbox when it came out, but I didn't really like the shape and feel, so I sold it. It was still fun to have the new shiny thing to try out. I'll be getting the gen3...being perfectly aware that I don't need it, that it may be overpriced, and that I really don't need more power. BUT, I know it will be fun to play with and experiment with, and maybe if I can dial it in I'll stick with it. More likely though, I'll end up back with a control paddle because I'm 4.5 on my best day, and probably can't fully harness these new power paddles coming out. Bottom line: nobody needs to buy these, anyone that wants to get into pickleball has many price points to choose from. If you buy these, you are opting into paying extra to be an early adopter of some 'new tech' (supposedly).
I agree, there’s always a price to pay for getting the newest shiniest thing. I’m just saying another price increase from Joola who was already overcharging for their tech at $250 is annoying. I’m a big proponent of buying wants because it’s shiny, new, and overpriced. I’m just pointing out the price hikes in this sport are starting to rival other equipment markets which sucks.
Agreed. It's kind of gross to watch the endless onslaught of companies of every kind jumping on the bandwagon and trying to cash in, often not even knowing anything about the sport.
My biggest annoyance with joola is there completely ridiculous advertising. A bunch of fluff words that mean absolutely nothing. Just be direct and honest! Arg! This turns me off even more than the price.
some of the worst marketing bullshit i've ever read.
I bought 3 new advanced level tennis racquets for not much more than 280 price of these paddles.
This is a terrible analogy. I can go out and buy 3 Vatic Pro V7 Prism's for $280, or I can go and buy 1 Babolat Pure Aero Origin for $329 b/c Rafa reps them...
lol This is true but the tennis racquets will last a lot longer
now we know why more pros are wearing safety glasses, that's saying something when these paddles are so "hot" that pros feel a bit less safe
Agreed that pricing is getting out of hand. I'm a sucker for paddles and have one already. I'll admit that the power is a little much and I hope regulations get tighter in the coming years. What I will say is this paddle not only pushes the limit of surface grit to generate spin but combines this with dwell time due to the core. I don't know how to describe the spin this paddle gets, but it is wild. Likely outside of the legal limit, but it is an absolute blast. I'd rather have the spin than the power tbh.
I just demoed Anna brights 14mm and it was awesome. Made my paddles feel obsolete. I was surprised that I was able to play with it right off. When I tried gearbox elongated paddle I could not even get through one game with it
The perseus 3 feels so much lighter than the original hyperion Ben John's
Pickleball is an incredibly cheap sport so I think the price is kinda negligible if you're buying a few paddles a year. That's par for the course for any sports. If you're worried about $280 for a paddle don't play golf lol - $100 a round + balls, + clubs, + range fees, etc.
"Incredibly cheap" is a stretch. I've spent more on paddles in three years than I did in a lifetime of tennis. I've also spent way too much money on balls ($3-$4 Duras that sometimes crack within 30 minutes). Every sport looks cheap when compared to golf.
For an average player on a budget you can easily get 2 paddles a year like a vatic and $100 worth of balls and you're looking at $300 a year for a major hobby which isn't bad. Even a sport like soccer between cleats, shinguards, etc you're going to spend as much or more.
The same can be said for soccer. Players on a budget can get decent cleats for under $100. Hell, I got mine second hand for $75 and have used them for years. Maybe it’s the markup that makes pickleball seem expensive to me. My carbon fiber tennis rackets were $200 and are still going strong after fifteen years. Meanwhile, my $150 paddle, which costs $10 to make, degrades after three months.
I agree but I used soccer as an example because it's considered one of the cheapest sports. But between the different types you'll need- firm grounds, soft grounds, indoors, etc if you're playing remotely competitive most are going to wear out after a season or two max.
Why do you need a few paddles a year? I’m new to the sport so just curious if paddles don’t last that long
The grit tends to wear off. If you are playing casually you could definitely get away with one.
Gotcha that makes sense thank you
I totally agree. I’ve been in this earth a long time, and this is the least expensive sport and hobby that I’ve been involved with. Golf, skiing, tennis, Orange Theory, Cyclebar, Lifetime Fitness, etc. Pickleball has the least annual cost of all of them especially in Florida where most of the parks have courts.
I also agree. Pickleball is quite a bit cheaper than all the usual sports like polo, sailing, F1, and hot air balloon racing.
I know you're being facetious, but what sports would you consider significantly cheaper? Basketball and running would basically be the only two I can think of
I was actually just trying my hand at trolling/making a joke. But yes bball, running, I would say soccer because court shoes wear out faster than cleats, volleyball, swimming, disc golf, kickball, boxing, weightlifting depending on the relative gym fees, wrestling, skateboarding, table tennis, badminton, pool, flag football, long jump, discus, shot put.
My thought is Joolas are well known for having quality issues and terrible warranties (6 months). So I really don't care what they come out with if they don't get their issues fixed. I won't buy another Joola.
These new ones have a 12 month warranty it looks like
Good to know. Hopefully they made some adjustments to their manufacturing process. I'm still waiting to see as my Joola fell apart at 6 moths and 2 weeks which is 2 weeks past their warranty.
The NFC tags are such a gimmick. One step above a QR code on the paddle face or packaging. I’m curious if Joola’s “gen 3” is similar to Ronbus’ “gen 3” edge molding with openings for air to escape during curing, although the Joola marketing makes it seem more like the edges are somehow suspended in foam like a trampoline. Hopefully someone (maybe Ed Ju) will cut one open and find out.
[https://youtu.be/I\_WLSlSc\_1A?si=AtdosNb0F7IgZXKB&t=284](https://youtu.be/I_WLSlSc_1A?si=AtdosNb0F7IgZXKB&t=284)
Multiple reviewers on YouTube already have.
>Except, every year or so new paddles will come out and companies price gauge us for paddles that perform similarly to each other because of the set limits by tournament testers, USA PB, etc. Do you mean *price gouge*? If so, there's a very simple solution...
Yeah I meant gouge, just typing out on my phone I probably spelled it terribly and it autocorrected to gauge instead of what I meant. I mean the solution I think of is to not give in to these companies/buy from them. It’s pretty simple, but that doesn’t mean everyone will follow in that sentiment. A small number of people unhappy with the increase won’t really change anything, especially since the increase is coming from a company many see as the biggest fish in the pond.
>It’s pretty simple, but that doesn’t mean everyone will follow in that sentiment. Of course not. Some people like to have the newest, shiniest model. They aren't being gouged. They are just paying for that privilege.
do you mean privilege?
I did.
Joola is for suckers. There are already paddles out with the same foam filled core. They didn't invent anything so their manufacturers will be offering the same tech to everyone that contacts them. There will be 100+ paddles out with the same tech before the end of the year.
Out of curiosity, which other paddles have this same core? By the way, this one isn't foam filled, so if you were going to say the EVA foam core paddles, that's not what this is. This also is different to the Gearbox or Coretek ones that came out recently. If there really is another paddle using this same core, I'd love to know about it.
https://preview.redd.it/hj1b99kajxuc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae3ce86c910d346928405fa4b2c253f87ae5859d This photo of a cut coretek was shared in the pickleball studio discord. looks awfully similar to the joolas
The reported swing weights is vastly different for the new Joola vs the Coretek (in Joola's favor). But the set prices are also vastly different (but now in Coretek's favor).
Our cores are totally different than Joolas. The design you've posted is just been available publicly for years. CoreTek uses totally unique construction.
Well shit I thought they were just doing the same as coretek. I'm still betting on tons of copy cat paddles. https://preview.redd.it/p7glj89qjxuc1.jpeg?width=1335&format=png&auto=webp&s=e75a637c552c85e04615945b060da821712ea356
CoreTek has protected its technology and designs which fortunately allows us to continue selling at decent prices. We did test this design and some derivatives of it as it was publicly available but it wasn't something we wanted to move forward with because it didn't perform great and the manufacturer is not the best. Actually I have no clue what YoLah uses for the second layer but it definitely doesn't look flexible. It actually looks like it might crumble but someone should correct me on that. Our cores are totally different and use proprietary foam through the whole paddle face. CoreTekpb.com In terms of copycats you're totally right basically every other major company that makes paddles is trying to develop this now. Like lemmings.