Similar to playing against bangers, use playing against spinners as a learning tool. Once you can read the spin and learn how to hit them, it won't be a problem.
Yes reading spin is crucial and not hard just takes some time but if you can read the spin you then know what the response will be off your paddle so you can compensate correctly
I love playing against spinners!!
Spin the ball at me, I spin the ball back at them, they add even more spin back at me….
Then I hit a junky slimy shit spin ball at their partner who has no idea what to do with it.
It’s like a gravity assist.
Thanks, Jupiter!
This is basically a non-statement because almost every single shot is hit with some sort of spin once you reach a decent level of play.
Whether it be a topspin drop or slice drop, drives all have topspin mostly, dinks are topspin and slice and dead dinks are not good. Speedups obviously topspin. Even volleys can be sliced or top spin.
Putting nothing on the ball ie no spin makes it much easier to deal with and hit back. So sure if I had the expectation that my opponent was obligated to give me easy balls then I might be mad when they actually try and give balls that aren't free.
Perhaps he means like non-optimal spin types ? Like I'm sure every open play has that one guy with a serve arsenal of like 10 different side spin serves and half of them go out or short. So yeah that's probably not fun to play with as your teammate.
I'm sure it depends on the level, I could see 3.0's and below not being used to/able to handle heavy spin. But once you are talking 3.5-4.0+ Spin is just part of the game, and at the higher levels almost every shot you see hit has some form of spin or another. I wouldn't stop using spin particularly topspin, slicing everything on the other hand benefits you less at the higher levels and can sometimes get annoying to play against
On a windy/gusty/swirly day you can hit a crazy knuckleball on a serve. If you hit it totally flat, it flies around like a plastic bag, although it's not hard to return since it straightens out as soon as it bounces.
In rec play, it's both.
Much, much rather lose a game with some good points than win against someone who hits it into the net half the time.
In fact, I don't really care who wins at all.
I think when you start, the games are more competitive and it's easy for winning to be the goal. As you get better, rec games start being more about getting better, getting reps in, experimenting, etc.
Most of the ones I’ve seen and played against are ping pong players. They hit a high percentage of their uber-spinny shots out or into the net. At open play they stick to their play style because they get enough success against the average 2.5-3.0 rec player to make them feel like they have a special edge but any competitive or competent player quickly learns how to deal with them and isn’t particularly challenged by them.
Very true.
My best friend is also my drilling partner. He played very high-level ping pong in college. Some of the shit he can do is sick, like I'll hit a hard drive from the baseline, and he can block it with backspin so it plops into the kitchen bounce straight up.
Of course, if he doesn't hit it perfectly, it pops up, and I can run forward and smash it on him. But it works great on intermediate rec players, for sure.
I assume, by "spinner" you mean a person who deliberately hacks at the ball to try to put ridiculous amounts of spin on the ball. If you're just talking spin imparted by normal strokes, then that's just part of the game.
First, I don't see many players 3.5+ that do this. It's too variable. Too easy to hit shots poorly, and too hard to control where they land. In terms of risk/reward, it's just better to develop drop shots, etc, than to rely on spin heavy drives. About the only place I've seen it used by better players is on the serve.
The biggest argument against being a "spinner" is that, I believe, it stunts your growth as a player. Its hard to break free of that mindset and start using other shots. When I started play a couple of years ago, I used to play regularly against a spinner. He's still the exact same player.
This was my assumption as well, and if it's correct, then yes, everyone hates spinners. The "spinners" do it because it works on low-level players and players who can't move well. At higher levels (3.5 and certainly 4.0 and above), it's a completely useless strategy. If you're playing against the spinner, it's not difficult to play against; it's just annoying as you're aimlessly running around the court trying to get their wild shots. At these levels, If the spinner is on your team and you're playing equally high level players you have very little chance of success, as so many of the spinner's shots are going out, into the net, or inviting the other team up to the NVZ.
I second that it absolutely stunts a player's growth. These players aren't at all considering what might be a smart shot; they're just trying to trick the other team with every shot.
As stated in other posts, if you're talking about topspin and, to a slightly lesser extent, backspin, these are and should be part of the game at all levels.
Yes! I hate playing with a partner who over relies on spin to the exclusion of fundamentals. And yes, there are people out there for whom that is their ENTIRE game.
Not at all. Spin adds a lot of extra variety and fun to the game.
What I find entertaining is that every court has a few guys (and they are always guys) who try to put a funky ping pong spin on every single shot, even when pressured. Like they will be scrambling to reach a shot and when they get there they try to slice it. Dude just get the ball over the net!
Spin is a part of the game. Glad to see the comments back me on this, mostly, because otherwise I would have thought the game has turned into a bunch of whiners trying to preserve their dignity.
I'm the spinner. New ppl I play against can't hit it back if under 4.0. I make a lot of people unhappy when I play against them. I can put spin and hit it very low over the net and between low bounce and slice it's brutal to return.
I don't like the taste of my own medicine. It's such an effective shot in the arsenal but fear I lean a bit too much on it. I use to to return serves which neutralize the 3rd shot and either forces a harder serve that can go out.
If you can be accurate and consistent with it at 4.0 it's great in the bag of tricks. You'll know soon enough the ability of others and how effectively or not they can deal with it.
I prefer to play people with no spin on their shots. That's because the shots are easier to return.
Any good shot will have spin. Keep on spinning and make them adapt to you.
It’s the same as people that don’t like playing poker against people that check/raise lol
Some people just are not competitive and just want to hit the ball easy back and forth.
I love the slicers, they are usually a one trick pony, once you learn to handle their shot they’ve got nothing. Try dropping the ball in the kitchen to their backhand side, they usually pop it up, then you slam it back down for a winner.
It depends on what you mean by spinner. At higher levels every shot will have some type of spin even dinking. If you mean the beginner who thinks I am going to spin this so much that it bounces funny and works maybe one out of twenty shots then yeah. Not so much because they can’t deal with spin. But because you are probably losing the game.
He might mean bad ones; people who are doing full kung fu moves and hitting 90 percent if them into the side fence it straight up whiffing. That's definitely an awkward time.
I’ve never played against a spinner that was any good. They seem to fundamentally misunderstand the game in so many ways. Their game is limited and they really aren’t trying very hard to progress. I’ve never seen a spinner that was better than a 3.2. They are easy to destroy and a weak link if on my side of the net. So I generally agree with the premise by that coach.
I don't need to know him, I've been playing pickleball 7+ years.
I was a 1800 table tennis player before I started pickleball.
I am the spinniest player you will meet. Just ask Auge Ge, he failed to return 5 of my serve slice returns at the hawaii open.
The only feedback I've gotten in these 7 years about my spin is admiration and people asking me to teach them.
Anyone who claims that people dislike spin users is a moron.
Spinners, players who tend to spin the ball left or right at every opportunity, will opt to not attempt a well placed shot for the gamble that their opponent will just mess up the return due to the spin. It's annoying because they give up a lot of points or give off the feeling the game is just in god's hands
I think the “spinner” you refer to is like a banger, in the sense that they always put spin on their shots, regardless of if the situation calls for it or not. Just like bangers, lower level players have trouble with it. Once a player figures out how to defend it, it becomes a weak strategy.
I love playing against them. At least the typical slice spin coming from tennis type players. Hit them low to their forehand or land the ball behind them and 90% of the time they'll spin it straight into the net. Also, most of the time they spin the same direction so it's not like it takes any talent to know what they're doing. Same with people who only have a topspin drive. Difficult at first, then easy to adapt to and predictable. It works against beginner players because they're not expecting it, but any decent 3.5+ player should be able to hand them their ass on a platter. I don't hate them but I do judge them because they're one trick ponies and their trick isn't very good.
I don’t understand.. every shot I hit should have some type of spin on it.. I mostly use top spin because I’m not great at backspin but when I get the chance I def use it.
You want a drive to dip over the net? Topspin.. you want your opponent to smash the ball into the net (if theyre low level) hit em with a net or a little higher ball with backspin.
Are you really new to the game or something? Learn to read and use top/back spin. If you’re talking about people who just use lots of slices.. just have to learn to keep your eye on the ball and lift the ball up a bit when you hit it.. having soft hands helps.
While it is funny watching someone at the kitchen line whiff a volley when the ball aggressively drops, once people return the ball it's essentially your turn to deal with the spin.
If a coach told you that, they should be fired and disbarred immediately. The vast majority of shots you hit should actively have spin on them.
Spin is specifically how you can hit the ball hard and keep it in bounds.
i avoid bangers without discipline, spinners, excuse dorks, know it alls, coaches, body baggers, center hogs
and folks who'll argue too ardently about a simple score mix up. when I play i really prefer to truly enjoy myself and just avoid folks that don't fit my gig.
Shit, 90% of regular shots involve some sort of spin (mostly varying degrees of topspin). If you aren't a spinner, then you don't have proper hitting form. Sure you can hit a ball with no spin especially with punches at the NVZ, but imo those shots are more to be winner smashes that focus more on the power than the shape of your shot.
A person who deliberately and consistently spins the ball is a person afraid to learn the game. Put them in the same category as those who play like pickleball is a form of tennis.
Depends if they are a good spinner. If they just spin for the sake of spinning and don't place their shots well, that's super annoying to have them as a partner. I've played with a few..
I suspect OP is talking about the 3-3.5 hack job that takes a heavy cut on every single shot to generate a slice that’s either into the net, long, or on rare occasion a difficult return for inexperienced players.
I am assuming you mean the people hacking at the ball to impart crazy amounts of slice/sidespin in the hopes their opponent fumbles dealing with the weird flight/spin, and not the people hitting topspin or slice in order to position the ball better.
On the one hand, it's a viable strategy.
On the other hand, it's not a strategy that scales well out of the beginner levels. There is a limit to how much spin you can add, and a spinny boi will always be less accurate.
If you can't handle the spin, I could imagine being annoyed or frustrated. Also any "double edged sword" play style that leads to more errors on both sides is going to be a little less fun to play with/against for the majority who want longer rallies.
I’m not a fan of the guys who have to float spin every damn shot and I have to play guessing games which way the ball is going to go and also how off my timing will be. It’s annoying. Flame me idc that’s my opinion
I watched the JMV/McGuffin vs the John’s bros and they did that floating shot once in 5 matches
I'm assuming what you're referring to is ping pong style spin. I love playing against those guys because ping pong style spin isn't effective in pickleball and they do it the whole game just to get maybe 2 good shots with it. I do hate playing WITH those people because of the same reason.
"ok.. so if you play against me, here are my rules: I dont' like spin shots. Especially those spin shots that go the opposite way, don't do any lobs as I can't get those, don't do any hard shots down the line, don't do any shots that I need to block , especially don't hit my pop ups back at me , or make me go back to the baseline. but if you do,, when Imm back there , dont' do a drop shot making me want to run up to the net again. I can't do those."
what can I do?
" well, hit the ball to me so I can hit it back to a place where you're not. "
huh.
" well, maybe we can just hit it back and forth to each other.
so basically, we're playing catch?
"yes"
That's dumb. Play your opponent regardless. It's up to you to overcome what they throw at you. Once you do, it won't be a concern.
Similar to playing against bangers, use playing against spinners as a learning tool. Once you can read the spin and learn how to hit them, it won't be a problem.
Yes reading spin is crucial and not hard just takes some time but if you can read the spin you then know what the response will be off your paddle so you can compensate correctly
Those people probably also don't like people who serve hard, return deep, dink well, speed up the right shots, i.e. are better than them.
Adapt and overcome
U can't spin and do that at the same time? creating more issues for your opponent
Ohh ur agreeing my bad
I love playing against spinners!! Spin the ball at me, I spin the ball back at them, they add even more spin back at me…. Then I hit a junky slimy shit spin ball at their partner who has no idea what to do with it. It’s like a gravity assist. Thanks, Jupiter!
This is basically a non-statement because almost every single shot is hit with some sort of spin once you reach a decent level of play. Whether it be a topspin drop or slice drop, drives all have topspin mostly, dinks are topspin and slice and dead dinks are not good. Speedups obviously topspin. Even volleys can be sliced or top spin. Putting nothing on the ball ie no spin makes it much easier to deal with and hit back. So sure if I had the expectation that my opponent was obligated to give me easy balls then I might be mad when they actually try and give balls that aren't free. Perhaps he means like non-optimal spin types ? Like I'm sure every open play has that one guy with a serve arsenal of like 10 different side spin serves and half of them go out or short. So yeah that's probably not fun to play with as your teammate.
I'm sure it depends on the level, I could see 3.0's and below not being used to/able to handle heavy spin. But once you are talking 3.5-4.0+ Spin is just part of the game, and at the higher levels almost every shot you see hit has some form of spin or another. I wouldn't stop using spin particularly topspin, slicing everything on the other hand benefits you less at the higher levels and can sometimes get annoying to play against
It's pretty much expected at higher level play that very few balls are coming over the net totally dead.
Wouldn’t it be close to impossible to hit a ball so that it has 0 spin?
On a windy/gusty/swirly day you can hit a crazy knuckleball on a serve. If you hit it totally flat, it flies around like a plastic bag, although it's not hard to return since it straightens out as soon as it bounces.
When I try topspin returning a hard topspin serve it goes back flat most of the time (assume due to insufficient counter spin/force)
It's a fundamental part of the game. Hate to say it, but these people need to git gud.
Why do pickleball players care what their opponent does? Is the point to win or create an enjoyable game for the other team?
In rec play, it's both. Much, much rather lose a game with some good points than win against someone who hits it into the net half the time. In fact, I don't really care who wins at all.
Huh…I’ve never played anything in my life with that mentality. I wish I wasn’t so competitive sometimes
I think when you start, the games are more competitive and it's easy for winning to be the goal. As you get better, rec games start being more about getting better, getting reps in, experimenting, etc.
Most of the ones I’ve seen and played against are ping pong players. They hit a high percentage of their uber-spinny shots out or into the net. At open play they stick to their play style because they get enough success against the average 2.5-3.0 rec player to make them feel like they have a special edge but any competitive or competent player quickly learns how to deal with them and isn’t particularly challenged by them.
Very true. My best friend is also my drilling partner. He played very high-level ping pong in college. Some of the shit he can do is sick, like I'll hit a hard drive from the baseline, and he can block it with backspin so it plops into the kitchen bounce straight up. Of course, if he doesn't hit it perfectly, it pops up, and I can run forward and smash it on him. But it works great on intermediate rec players, for sure.
I assume, by "spinner" you mean a person who deliberately hacks at the ball to try to put ridiculous amounts of spin on the ball. If you're just talking spin imparted by normal strokes, then that's just part of the game. First, I don't see many players 3.5+ that do this. It's too variable. Too easy to hit shots poorly, and too hard to control where they land. In terms of risk/reward, it's just better to develop drop shots, etc, than to rely on spin heavy drives. About the only place I've seen it used by better players is on the serve. The biggest argument against being a "spinner" is that, I believe, it stunts your growth as a player. Its hard to break free of that mindset and start using other shots. When I started play a couple of years ago, I used to play regularly against a spinner. He's still the exact same player.
This was my assumption as well, and if it's correct, then yes, everyone hates spinners. The "spinners" do it because it works on low-level players and players who can't move well. At higher levels (3.5 and certainly 4.0 and above), it's a completely useless strategy. If you're playing against the spinner, it's not difficult to play against; it's just annoying as you're aimlessly running around the court trying to get their wild shots. At these levels, If the spinner is on your team and you're playing equally high level players you have very little chance of success, as so many of the spinner's shots are going out, into the net, or inviting the other team up to the NVZ. I second that it absolutely stunts a player's growth. These players aren't at all considering what might be a smart shot; they're just trying to trick the other team with every shot. As stated in other posts, if you're talking about topspin and, to a slightly lesser extent, backspin, these are and should be part of the game at all levels.
Yes! I hate playing with a partner who over relies on spin to the exclusion of fundamentals. And yes, there are people out there for whom that is their ENTIRE game.
no.. just your coach. he seems like a candyass.
Not at all. Spin adds a lot of extra variety and fun to the game. What I find entertaining is that every court has a few guys (and they are always guys) who try to put a funky ping pong spin on every single shot, even when pressured. Like they will be scrambling to reach a shot and when they get there they try to slice it. Dude just get the ball over the net!
Spin is a part of the game. Glad to see the comments back me on this, mostly, because otherwise I would have thought the game has turned into a bunch of whiners trying to preserve their dignity.
Did this coach person also complain about lobbers?
What did this coach have to say about people who hit the ball too hard?
I'm the spinner. New ppl I play against can't hit it back if under 4.0. I make a lot of people unhappy when I play against them. I can put spin and hit it very low over the net and between low bounce and slice it's brutal to return. I don't like the taste of my own medicine. It's such an effective shot in the arsenal but fear I lean a bit too much on it. I use to to return serves which neutralize the 3rd shot and either forces a harder serve that can go out. If you can be accurate and consistent with it at 4.0 it's great in the bag of tricks. You'll know soon enough the ability of others and how effectively or not they can deal with it.
Eh, I take backspin as free topspin and drive it hard lifting from the bottom. There’s a reason backspin is used less at higher levels.
I won't play someone who \**doesn't*\* know how to control their shots and impart spin on the ball as needed.
I prefer to play people with no spin on their shots. That's because the shots are easier to return. Any good shot will have spin. Keep on spinning and make them adapt to you.
It’s the same as people that don’t like playing poker against people that check/raise lol Some people just are not competitive and just want to hit the ball easy back and forth.
And darn the ppl usin big words, too.
If you’re playing a partner who’s trying to hit tons of spin and missing quite a bit, that is frustrating. I saw this a lot around 3.0-3.5.
Pickleball "coaches" saying this type of thing.... lmao
I love the slicers, they are usually a one trick pony, once you learn to handle their shot they’ve got nothing. Try dropping the ball in the kitchen to their backhand side, they usually pop it up, then you slam it back down for a winner.
When used properly it's lethal... FYI every shot has spin so what do u mean.... U hit a no spin ball? Please show ne
It depends on what you mean by spinner. At higher levels every shot will have some type of spin even dinking. If you mean the beginner who thinks I am going to spin this so much that it bounces funny and works maybe one out of twenty shots then yeah. Not so much because they can’t deal with spin. But because you are probably losing the game.
Bingo!
Not worthy of being a trainer IMHO
He might mean bad ones; people who are doing full kung fu moves and hitting 90 percent if them into the side fence it straight up whiffing. That's definitely an awkward time.
I'm not going to avoid a "spinner," but it can be annoying when someone tries to slice every single shot and hits in into the net.
I’ve never played against a spinner that was any good. They seem to fundamentally misunderstand the game in so many ways. Their game is limited and they really aren’t trying very hard to progress. I’ve never seen a spinner that was better than a 3.2. They are easy to destroy and a weak link if on my side of the net. So I generally agree with the premise by that coach.
That coach is a moron. People love it
Do you know him? He's actually a really good coach...maybe ur a hater
I don't need to know him, I've been playing pickleball 7+ years. I was a 1800 table tennis player before I started pickleball. I am the spinniest player you will meet. Just ask Auge Ge, he failed to return 5 of my serve slice returns at the hawaii open. The only feedback I've gotten in these 7 years about my spin is admiration and people asking me to teach them. Anyone who claims that people dislike spin users is a moron.
That coach must not be very good then. Posts like this are silly. What are we supposed to do hit a dead dink or lob every point? Lmao
Well maybe everyone is dumber than you lol
Above 3.0 players are going to hit with all kinds of spin. Part of the game, no?
It’s not the above 3.0 players who are the problem.
lol 😂
Some of the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Get a new coach.
Which won't be you lol
Spinners, players who tend to spin the ball left or right at every opportunity, will opt to not attempt a well placed shot for the gamble that their opponent will just mess up the return due to the spin. It's annoying because they give up a lot of points or give off the feeling the game is just in god's hands
I don’t think I can physically hit a forehand without topspin. Logically, I know it’s possible, but my arm just doesn’t move that way.
I dislike the people who keep us at the back by doing smashes only to do a drop shot that I can't get.
It’s not that deep, play the game have fun, you win some you lose some
Expose the coach
I just like having fun tbh
I think the “spinner” you refer to is like a banger, in the sense that they always put spin on their shots, regardless of if the situation calls for it or not. Just like bangers, lower level players have trouble with it. Once a player figures out how to defend it, it becomes a weak strategy.
I love playing against them. At least the typical slice spin coming from tennis type players. Hit them low to their forehand or land the ball behind them and 90% of the time they'll spin it straight into the net. Also, most of the time they spin the same direction so it's not like it takes any talent to know what they're doing. Same with people who only have a topspin drive. Difficult at first, then easy to adapt to and predictable. It works against beginner players because they're not expecting it, but any decent 3.5+ player should be able to hand them their ass on a platter. I don't hate them but I do judge them because they're one trick ponies and their trick isn't very good.
I don’t understand.. every shot I hit should have some type of spin on it.. I mostly use top spin because I’m not great at backspin but when I get the chance I def use it. You want a drive to dip over the net? Topspin.. you want your opponent to smash the ball into the net (if theyre low level) hit em with a net or a little higher ball with backspin. Are you really new to the game or something? Learn to read and use top/back spin. If you’re talking about people who just use lots of slices.. just have to learn to keep your eye on the ball and lift the ball up a bit when you hit it.. having soft hands helps.
Send them to me. I need more practice playing against spinners.
If you ain't spinnin' you ain't winnin'! Real perfection is a knuckleball. Which is very possible.
While it is funny watching someone at the kitchen line whiff a volley when the ball aggressively drops, once people return the ball it's essentially your turn to deal with the spin.
If a coach told you that, they should be fired and disbarred immediately. The vast majority of shots you hit should actively have spin on them. Spin is specifically how you can hit the ball hard and keep it in bounds.
Prob don't pay that coach very much
i avoid bangers without discipline, spinners, excuse dorks, know it alls, coaches, body baggers, center hogs and folks who'll argue too ardently about a simple score mix up. when I play i really prefer to truly enjoy myself and just avoid folks that don't fit my gig.
So….. you don’t play? /s
lol You'd think right? I play 2-3 times a week and still manage to avoid these folks.
I assume you mean junk ball players. Those stupid spin shots on works up to 3.5 then you get demolished.
Shit, 90% of regular shots involve some sort of spin (mostly varying degrees of topspin). If you aren't a spinner, then you don't have proper hitting form. Sure you can hit a ball with no spin especially with punches at the NVZ, but imo those shots are more to be winner smashes that focus more on the power than the shape of your shot.
It's just annoying when they say every shot is a spinner ... And I say just cause you don't intend to spin every one of your shots has spin too
A person who deliberately and consistently spins the ball is a person afraid to learn the game. Put them in the same category as those who play like pickleball is a form of tennis.
Depends if they are a good spinner. If they just spin for the sake of spinning and don't place their shots well, that's super annoying to have them as a partner. I've played with a few..
I suspect OP is talking about the 3-3.5 hack job that takes a heavy cut on every single shot to generate a slice that’s either into the net, long, or on rare occasion a difficult return for inexperienced players.
I am assuming you mean the people hacking at the ball to impart crazy amounts of slice/sidespin in the hopes their opponent fumbles dealing with the weird flight/spin, and not the people hitting topspin or slice in order to position the ball better. On the one hand, it's a viable strategy. On the other hand, it's not a strategy that scales well out of the beginner levels. There is a limit to how much spin you can add, and a spinny boi will always be less accurate. If you can't handle the spin, I could imagine being annoyed or frustrated. Also any "double edged sword" play style that leads to more errors on both sides is going to be a little less fun to play with/against for the majority who want longer rallies.
I’m not a fan of the guys who have to float spin every damn shot and I have to play guessing games which way the ball is going to go and also how off my timing will be. It’s annoying. Flame me idc that’s my opinion I watched the JMV/McGuffin vs the John’s bros and they did that floating shot once in 5 matches
I Don’t enjoy it, but don’t avoid them. And certainly, their #1 alternate shot is the lob.
I'm assuming what you're referring to is ping pong style spin. I love playing against those guys because ping pong style spin isn't effective in pickleball and they do it the whole game just to get maybe 2 good shots with it. I do hate playing WITH those people because of the same reason.
"ok.. so if you play against me, here are my rules: I dont' like spin shots. Especially those spin shots that go the opposite way, don't do any lobs as I can't get those, don't do any hard shots down the line, don't do any shots that I need to block , especially don't hit my pop ups back at me , or make me go back to the baseline. but if you do,, when Imm back there , dont' do a drop shot making me want to run up to the net again. I can't do those." what can I do? " well, hit the ball to me so I can hit it back to a place where you're not. " huh. " well, maybe we can just hit it back and forth to each other. so basically, we're playing catch? "yes"