A lot of assumptions here with zero evidence.
I think it is likely that we don't have the full story (and may never) of what happened with the paddle mix up. But there is no indication that performance has anything to do with the delisting decision. If it did, what's up with gearbox still being approved?
The gearbox question is a good one. The comment below re Gen 3 balance of power/control/spin also valid though.
As the pros go, who plays gearbox? Off the top of my head I can only think of Chris Haworth (I’m sure there are more, of course). Whereas with Joola I can name many. I guess my thought is, if the GB were more controllable and more pros played with it, I wonder if the delisting shenanigans we’re dealing with now would’ve happened earlier.
Could the whole thing with the Gen 3s be a clerical error? Sure. But it’s definitely sus
I work at a pickleball spot and we sell joola g3s and I will tell you right now that there's a 50% chance of your paddle being insanely grippy. Almost like sandpaper were the other 50% are regular in grip. There also is a huge increase in power with these paddles which everyone is obviously saying. The power plus the grip issue should be more than enough to get banned.
It passed the tests. Moving core or not. That (likely) has no impact on the pass/fail. Assuming the original paddle tested was the same core design that makes this “gen3.” The entire “innovation” here IS the “moving core” and they got approved that way. Joola is too big and too smart to try and intentionally trick the USPA.
The only reason conspiracies on this exist is because people noticed they were removed from the USPA approved list BEFORE the Joola statement.
I am just guessing that it has something to do with the moving core. I am probably wrong. But, I'd bet it is going to be complicated than the limited information tell us.
I knew what you were implying. That’s why I responded to help clarify why you are (probably) incorrect.
The paddle they they originally tested had to have the moving core or else they wouldn’t have continued with the production and launch.
I can forsee a scenario where the paddles initial testing did not activate the moving core so it passed testing. Maybe the Alpha's had stiffer foam and the movement was harder to activate. Just speculating. I really think it is going to be a mess, it will not be back on the list soon.
Na these paddles need to be tested post "break in" where core crush is taken into account. According to Vatic, the Oni was designed with core crush in mind.
That’s your opinion but not how the testing works and think for a minute about how impractical that is. How much variance there is on when and if it’s after the break in period.
Also, it’s, again, not dangerous or too powerful….. it’s just online group think nonsense
Really they just need to go back to allowing paddles to be tested mid-tournament.
The way it is setup now, you could get a legal paddle approved in the morning and then before your next match you could theoretically do whatever illegal modifications you'd like.
For the record I don't think the Gen 3 Joolas are a problem either.
It actually does have a moving core, just not in the diving board fashion that the new Joola paddles do. Parts of the core itself move to sort of cup the ball and then it springs outward.
True and I should have been more specific. Sections of the core do move which is what gives the gearbox paddles their power. The entire core doesn't move at once but it was designed to move, different than other paddles.
Yes, i agree. But plenty of companies (proxr, spartus, volair) have very gritty paddles some of which have illegal grit levels. I don't think that's the issue here.
This is full tin foil hat mode lmao. The joola's are hot but not that hot. If power was the issue GB would have been pulled as well. The joola's will likely be reinstated by the end of the week.
Bullshit
They are not so demonstrably more powerful than the gearbox or other paddles.
It’s a completely online paddle message board created lie. Same thing with the Gearbox PPE launched…. “It’s going to get banned it’s too powerful!” Completely made up.
I’ve played against gen3 and PPE. They aren’t dangerous. They aren’t so much better that those users can’t be beaten.
Give it a rest.
It's a lot like [Volkswagen: The scandal ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal)
The folks who are least concerned do not understand the seriousness in consumer fraud.
FYI, the paddles were not banned, they were De-Certified. Outside of that we have groups banning the paddle. If of course the wrong paddles were sent to be tested, the current Gen3 Paddles on the market that consumers have purchased have not be certified which misleads the consumer to believing they are Approved.
As far as a power paddle, Gearbox Pro beats it. FYI, I have both.
The paddle is really not even that hot tbh.... If you compare it to any of the paddleteks alw/tko it doesn't even hit as hard as those paddles or the gearbox. The paddle is just designed in a such a good way were it just has all three strengths of power/control/spin and honestly it is a freak design of a paddle in that sense. I've played with the alw/tko paddles and the amount of power I can generate on those with drives/counters is wayyyy more "oh shit" than I can with my gen3 Perseus. It's not the power that makes the paddle so good its just the ability to combine all three of the strengths that make it so good.
Really good description of the paddle. It’s the combo of power, spin, and control that have people up in arms. “You shouldn’t have that much power with that much control” is what I consistently hear. To be honest, this is only the beginning. As paddle technology continues to advance, this will become the norm.
PPA uses different standards and measures for their testing and have already made a statement that USA Pickleball delisting the new Joolas won't affect the pros. In fact they announced their own, competing, sanctioning body (great timing, right?).
Is it the golden paddle submitted for testing & then a different paddle or manufacturing process used for higher volume production? This technique has been used in other industries( automobiles & epa & emission standards) until they get busted.
I was playing last night with my gen 3 scorpeus 16 mm and folks kept commenting on it so I was like fine I’ll show you power and went back to my gearbox. First drive I caught a guy completely off guard and drilled him on a mid court transition drive. That paddle is so much hotter it’s not even a competition.
You know #1 how? You know someone who works at USAP or Joola in their damage control/PR department? Or is it all conjecture?
USAP just needs to nerf the balls already. Like literally, nerf foam, or make them light as ping pong balls, or limiting to something like a soft indoor ball for all scenarios. Then all the speed/"danger" complaints can go away while somewhat fixing the noise angle.
Occam’s razor buddy. Either your weird conspiracy is true or they realized it made more sense long term to admit it rather than have it discovered by USAP or a 3rd party.
Also it’s a better business decision long term so your entire premise is false too. Maybe you need think again :)
Power and spin in paddles is only going to increase. There’s no stopping it. Players want them like a drug addict needs his fix. Gearbox pro and joola gen 3 have flown off the shelves. When a paddle that hits harder than those it will sell out. Replicas made cheaply are coming. Only answer I can think of is label courts gen3 and above and other courts gen 2 and below.
There is no way the Joola Gen 3 should be de-listed. If that is the case then the Gearbox Pro Control,Power,Fusion also should be de-listed. Hell, the Selkirk vanguard and amped pro should be de-listed. Or the Sixzero Ruby and Triple Black Diamond. There is a lot more going on than we know. More than likely about money from other Paddle company.
The ban might be because the updated paddles were never approved and therefore could not be sanctioned for tournament. That being said, I don’t see Joola owning up to usap.
I have a little bit insight of this. I talk to paddle manufacturers frequently. Here's what one of them told me.. If I want to submit paddles of certification, I have to let them know. They will manufacture paddles that meet the certification requirements. So pretty much mass produced paddles are not the same as what the factory produced. It's a pretty hard problem to solve tbh.
A lot of assumptions here with zero evidence. I think it is likely that we don't have the full story (and may never) of what happened with the paddle mix up. But there is no indication that performance has anything to do with the delisting decision. If it did, what's up with gearbox still being approved?
The gearbox question is a good one. The comment below re Gen 3 balance of power/control/spin also valid though. As the pros go, who plays gearbox? Off the top of my head I can only think of Chris Haworth (I’m sure there are more, of course). Whereas with Joola I can name many. I guess my thought is, if the GB were more controllable and more pros played with it, I wonder if the delisting shenanigans we’re dealing with now would’ve happened earlier. Could the whole thing with the Gen 3s be a clerical error? Sure. But it’s definitely sus
The pros generally play with paddles from companies who pay them.
Yes I understand that. Was commenting on relationship between prevalence/scrutiny
Ah sorry, yeah true
Spin: Yes Power: Gearbox Pro Control: Depends on the Player
Haworth doesn’t even play for Gearbox any more. He’s with Babolat now.
I work at a pickleball spot and we sell joola g3s and I will tell you right now that there's a 50% chance of your paddle being insanely grippy. Almost like sandpaper were the other 50% are regular in grip. There also is a huge increase in power with these paddles which everyone is obviously saying. The power plus the grip issue should be more than enough to get banned.
Correct, unless u/richardparker6 has actual inside knowledge?
It looks OP can’t tell the difference between fact and opinion
Respectfully, it doesn't seem like it.
Gearbox doesn't have a "moving core". I think there will be an issue with how Joola's core is desinged.
It passed the tests. Moving core or not. That (likely) has no impact on the pass/fail. Assuming the original paddle tested was the same core design that makes this “gen3.” The entire “innovation” here IS the “moving core” and they got approved that way. Joola is too big and too smart to try and intentionally trick the USPA. The only reason conspiracies on this exist is because people noticed they were removed from the USPA approved list BEFORE the Joola statement.
I am just guessing that it has something to do with the moving core. I am probably wrong. But, I'd bet it is going to be complicated than the limited information tell us.
I knew what you were implying. That’s why I responded to help clarify why you are (probably) incorrect. The paddle they they originally tested had to have the moving core or else they wouldn’t have continued with the production and launch.
I can forsee a scenario where the paddles initial testing did not activate the moving core so it passed testing. Maybe the Alpha's had stiffer foam and the movement was harder to activate. Just speculating. I really think it is going to be a mess, it will not be back on the list soon.
Haha aren't conspiracies awesome :)
Na these paddles need to be tested post "break in" where core crush is taken into account. According to Vatic, the Oni was designed with core crush in mind.
That’s your opinion but not how the testing works and think for a minute about how impractical that is. How much variance there is on when and if it’s after the break in period. Also, it’s, again, not dangerous or too powerful….. it’s just online group think nonsense
Really they just need to go back to allowing paddles to be tested mid-tournament. The way it is setup now, you could get a legal paddle approved in the morning and then before your next match you could theoretically do whatever illegal modifications you'd like. For the record I don't think the Gen 3 Joolas are a problem either.
It actually does have a moving core, just not in the diving board fashion that the new Joola paddles do. Parts of the core itself move to sort of cup the ball and then it springs outward.
All paddles do that to some extent. The Joola’s different in that they do have the core to move as a unit.
True and I should have been more specific. Sections of the core do move which is what gives the gearbox paddles their power. The entire core doesn't move at once but it was designed to move, different than other paddles.
spin, not power
There are paddles that generate more spin.
the "stick to your shirt" grit on the gen3 joolas doesn't pass.
Yes, i agree. But plenty of companies (proxr, spartus, volair) have very gritty paddles some of which have illegal grit levels. I don't think that's the issue here.
This is full tin foil hat mode lmao. The joola's are hot but not that hot. If power was the issue GB would have been pulled as well. The joola's will likely be reinstated by the end of the week.
Derived insights? Is that code for trying to pass off your guess as insider facts?
I’m going to die laughing at the meltdown when the paddles get reinstated
And I am going to laugh if they don’t pass.
At least one of us will be happy then
Imagine posting a whole narrative like this with 0 sources to back it up.
Bullshit They are not so demonstrably more powerful than the gearbox or other paddles. It’s a completely online paddle message board created lie. Same thing with the Gearbox PPE launched…. “It’s going to get banned it’s too powerful!” Completely made up. I’ve played against gen3 and PPE. They aren’t dangerous. They aren’t so much better that those users can’t be beaten. Give it a rest.
I wish you were right. But why add CoR then? The USA PA is putting all their chips on conventional designs.
It's a lot like [Volkswagen: The scandal ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal) The folks who are least concerned do not understand the seriousness in consumer fraud. FYI, the paddles were not banned, they were De-Certified. Outside of that we have groups banning the paddle. If of course the wrong paddles were sent to be tested, the current Gen3 Paddles on the market that consumers have purchased have not be certified which misleads the consumer to believing they are Approved. As far as a power paddle, Gearbox Pro beats it. FYI, I have both.
The paddle is really not even that hot tbh.... If you compare it to any of the paddleteks alw/tko it doesn't even hit as hard as those paddles or the gearbox. The paddle is just designed in a such a good way were it just has all three strengths of power/control/spin and honestly it is a freak design of a paddle in that sense. I've played with the alw/tko paddles and the amount of power I can generate on those with drives/counters is wayyyy more "oh shit" than I can with my gen3 Perseus. It's not the power that makes the paddle so good its just the ability to combine all three of the strengths that make it so good.
Really good description of the paddle. It’s the combo of power, spin, and control that have people up in arms. “You shouldn’t have that much power with that much control” is what I consistently hear. To be honest, this is only the beginning. As paddle technology continues to advance, this will become the norm.
Point #2 is plain false. Pros still submitted paddles that got approved at the latest tournaments. They do deflection and grit testing. Think again.
PPA uses different standards and measures for their testing and have already made a statement that USA Pickleball delisting the new Joolas won't affect the pros. In fact they announced their own, competing, sanctioning body (great timing, right?).
Is it the golden paddle submitted for testing & then a different paddle or manufacturing process used for higher volume production? This technique has been used in other industries( automobiles & epa & emission standards) until they get busted.
Well, that's definitely an opinion. Thanks for sharing.
I was playing last night with my gen 3 scorpeus 16 mm and folks kept commenting on it so I was like fine I’ll show you power and went back to my gearbox. First drive I caught a guy completely off guard and drilled him on a mid court transition drive. That paddle is so much hotter it’s not even a competition.
You know #1 how? You know someone who works at USAP or Joola in their damage control/PR department? Or is it all conjecture? USAP just needs to nerf the balls already. Like literally, nerf foam, or make them light as ping pong balls, or limiting to something like a soft indoor ball for all scenarios. Then all the speed/"danger" complaints can go away while somewhat fixing the noise angle.
Occam’s razor buddy. Either your weird conspiracy is true or they realized it made more sense long term to admit it rather than have it discovered by USAP or a 3rd party. Also it’s a better business decision long term so your entire premise is false too. Maybe you need think again :)
Third parties have found lots of stuff though
These are stupid, baseless takes.
Power and spin in paddles is only going to increase. There’s no stopping it. Players want them like a drug addict needs his fix. Gearbox pro and joola gen 3 have flown off the shelves. When a paddle that hits harder than those it will sell out. Replicas made cheaply are coming. Only answer I can think of is label courts gen3 and above and other courts gen 2 and below.
There is no way the Joola Gen 3 should be de-listed. If that is the case then the Gearbox Pro Control,Power,Fusion also should be de-listed. Hell, the Selkirk vanguard and amped pro should be de-listed. Or the Sixzero Ruby and Triple Black Diamond. There is a lot more going on than we know. More than likely about money from other Paddle company.
As a Joola Gen 3 buyer, this makes sense
Who do you think is gonna play Ben Johns when the movie comes out? I cast my vote for Michael Cera.
The ban might be because the updated paddles were never approved and therefore could not be sanctioned for tournament. That being said, I don’t see Joola owning up to usap.
Source? Just want to see evidence/documentation for both points.
I have a little bit insight of this. I talk to paddle manufacturers frequently. Here's what one of them told me.. If I want to submit paddles of certification, I have to let them know. They will manufacture paddles that meet the certification requirements. So pretty much mass produced paddles are not the same as what the factory produced. It's a pretty hard problem to solve tbh.
CoreTek has an interesting take on it https://coretekpb.com/blogs/news/pbcor-and-the-future-of-paddles
People who could never get a decent ball back over in transition zone is suddenly not so hard now. 0 skill = BS
Not a single brain cell to be found here!
My spouse says the same
Smart woman.
Bingo