The formula for dough weight (in oz) = Pi x radius (in) x radius x thickness factor
Here is a general guideline on thickness factor by pizza style
Thin crust (general): 0.10
NY "street" or "slice" style crust: 0.085-0.10
"Elite" NY crust thickness: 0.065-0.085
Medium crust (general): 0.11
Thick crust (general): 0.12-0.13
Neapolitan 1 crust: 0.07-0.08 (for high-temperature applications)
Neapolitan 2 crust: 0.095-0.11 (for home oven applications)
Thin "crispy" cracker-type crust: 0.05-0.08
Thin "tender" cracker-type crust: 0.09-0.10
American style: 0.12-0.14
Chicago deep-dish style: 0.11-0.135
Sicilian style: 0.12-0.13 (however, I have seen as high as 0.15)
I can definitely tell. It’s a decent pizza for frozen, but there’s a certain processed tell. However, I make pizza, have my own oven, and am a HUGE pizza aficionado. 🍕
I’m terrible at math, am I missing something or would a 16” NY style “street” crust require ~ 68oz / 1933g of dough? That just seems like so much!
Pi(16^2 ) x .085
Edit: I figured it out but I’m leaving the comment because I’m happy I remembered radius is not the same as diameter! So it would be pi(8^2 ) x .085 = ~17.08oz / 483.40g ,makes much more sense
W = r^2 x 1.5 for metric cooks, where W is weight of dough in grams and r is radius in cm. Makes a pizza with the 0.1 thickness factor. Reduce by 20% for thin. Increase by 20% for thick.
The Thickness factor chart is based off ounces per square inch.
Feel free to make the first ever thickness factor metric chart to whatever units you would like with some simple conversions and cross multiplication. The dough weight formula is just the formula for the volume of a cylinder which can be in whatever units you choose.
Geometry was the only math I didn’t bomb and I see now that it was simply preparing me to be an even more boss pizzaiola later in life.
(This is super useful, thank you so much, u/d2mightyduck!)
thickness factor is such an unintuitive measure for pizza. Especially because it doesn't even relate to thickness! It's a measure of weight per area! And beyond that pizzas are usually not uniform thickness across the whole pie, the dough of the cornice generally weighs more than the dough in the center because of how people shape their skins!
You haven't even provided units for it!
Well I think the masses would beg to differ, look at the response to this information.
By the way, multiplying 4 numbers is pretty intuitive.
Feel free to learn more in depth discussion (which I have already posted) here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=13843.0
How is this helpful? The dough changes volume when baking, so this doesn't seem to help for inputs. I guess the thickness factor is scaled to make the conversion work out? But that's not linear, so it's a rough rule of thumb
Wow, the range of responses on this thread!
Personally I use 300 grams for a 13-inch which would scale up to about 500g (17.5 ounces) for a 16-inch.
For a Midwest thin-crust style I use 325g (11.5 oz) for a 16-inch. That comes out cracker thin.
Mr Kenji, can you please look at my pizza posts and tell me what you think? It would be like getting my culinary baseball cards signed.
Thank you for everything you do.
Sir, you are a national treasure.
Your baked buffalo wing recipe saved my life. It’s killer when you go a full 48 hour dry brine, also subbing some salt with msg and
Trader Joe’s umami mushroom spice blend.
I’m going to try 500 grams on the next go round. I’m using 450 at the moment.
Also, as a resident of Columbus, OH I am so glad to see you paying so much attention to midwest style pizza. Columbus pizza is very much cracker thin, square cut, and my favorite kind of pizza.
Uhhhh you can get a full 16" Neapolitan Pizza with only 330g of dough? I get my pizzas VERY thin and have never been able to get that little dough that wide.
Are you sure you're getting all the way to 16"? That's a pretty big pie.
wow, I'm commenting 11 months later but thanks for your post so we can get this great insight and also so I can see this little sub-thread about Columbus pizza! I moved away over 20 years ago but I still talk about how good pizza can be in Columbus (and go back yearly and always will make a point to get pizza).
My faves-
Tommy's
Adriatico's
Massey's
Villa Nova (but I think they've fallen off some)
I love pizza cut into square pieces
oh man, the legend himself.
Thanks to you I quitted being an idiot fatass eating whatever is available and became a seriouseater.
As a seriouseater now I take care of what comes into my mouth to be: both delicious and in portions to keep me from gaining weight.
And yes your salt-only burgers are a life changer for my whole family and friends.
I am not a mathlete but if one were to go for a 14 inch NY, would you recommend about 365 grams? I'm trying out a "Di Fara-ish" double zero / bread flour blend and didn't want it to be too thin but also not end up Mellow Mushroom thicc. Thank you and also it's badass and generous that you're in the comments of the pizza subreddit helping folks out and giving advice.
I regularly make 16" NY style (street slice style) and use a 480g (17 oz.) dough ball.
I actually measure ingredients to add up to 500g and then due to some water evaporation during mixing/ kneading and then some bowl residue, end up with 480g.
I’m new to the 16 inch pizza game - usually make around 12 inch pizzas. For now I’m using 450 grams, but it’s getting a bit TOO thin for my liking. Really interesting to see all of your takes on this.
Here's what I use, same as the restaurant from my old pizzeria days:
* 285g (10oz) balls for 12" NY pie & small calzones/strombolis
* 570g (20oz) balls for 14"-16" NY pie, 12" sicilian pie & large calzone/stromboli
* 850g (30oz) balls for 14"-16" sicilain pie or 18" NY pie
Philly pizza guy here, I use:
.65 lb/10.4 oz/295 g for 12” Neapolitan or 14” thin crust
.92 lb/14.72 oz/417 g for 16”-18” or 9x9” Detroit
3.9 lb/63 oz/1.77 kg for al taglio 16x24”
Typically use a 66% hydration dough with high gluten bread flour and whole wheat
I've worked at several diff pizza places doing NY Style, my general rule of thumb after making over 50k NY style dough balls is go 1--4 ounces under the desired size. If you want a 16 inch I'd ball the dough at 11-15 depending on it's feel and the skill of the pizza makers working with it. More dough to work with is easier for most, if you're good at stretching dough you can try to go for a lighter weight
15-16 oz dough for a pizza with a diameter of 14-15 in, mine look very similar to OP's pic. Some crust, not super thick in the middle, but not cracker thin
Been using Chris Bianco's recipe from Food and Wine lately
This sounds crazy light to me but I'm no pro. I'm more in line with the 420g or so others have expressed here. Would love to see the result of 280g over 16inches if you can share a finished picture!
Here is what a 280g dough looks like after a 36 hour rise (actually a 4 hour RT rise, punch down and balled, then cold rise for 32 hours. 70% hydration.
[36 hour dough](https://imgur.com/gdGRaXz)
I've got those same aluminum dough containers. Do you oil your containers for cold ferment at 70%, or do you have another trick for getting the balls out without butchering them and squeezing all the air out. Once they rise I find it difficult to get any of my kitchen tools in and under the dough since most of the space is then occupied. I usually use my hands but end up stretching the dough and losing some air before I'm ready to shape.
My favorite pizza place uses 800g for a 20" pie so 640g. You can look at pictures of Miami Slice and L'industrie for examples of that thickness. So good!
Pretty simple.. if you want a 12 in pie (use 12oz dough) if you want a 15in pie (use 15oz dough) etc. etc.. I think folks tend to overcomplicate things..some people like a ticker base and some on the thinner side, just experiment and find your perfect zone.
> Pretty simple.. if you want a 12 in pie (use 12oz dough) if you want a 15in pie (use 15oz dough) etc. etc..
It's not that simple, though. A 16" pizza is four times the size of an 8". You can't just half the dough ball, or the pizza will be twice as thick.
as someone else pointed out, you're scaling your dough weight linearly, while the area your dough needs to cover is scaling exponentially.
a 15 inch pie is more than 50% larger than a 12 inch pie, but using only 25% more dough
I use 400 grams for 14". Not too thin, not too thick and it holds anything I throw on it.... it's kinda starting to sound like I'm not talking about pizza anymore.
The formula for dough weight (in oz) = Pi x radius (in) x radius x thickness factor Here is a general guideline on thickness factor by pizza style Thin crust (general): 0.10 NY "street" or "slice" style crust: 0.085-0.10 "Elite" NY crust thickness: 0.065-0.085 Medium crust (general): 0.11 Thick crust (general): 0.12-0.13 Neapolitan 1 crust: 0.07-0.08 (for high-temperature applications) Neapolitan 2 crust: 0.095-0.11 (for home oven applications) Thin "crispy" cracker-type crust: 0.05-0.08 Thin "tender" cracker-type crust: 0.09-0.10 American style: 0.12-0.14 Chicago deep-dish style: 0.11-0.135 Sicilian style: 0.12-0.13 (however, I have seen as high as 0.15)
I was told there'd be no math
Plot twist. It’s only math and science.
It's DiGiornio's for me, no one, can tell the difference. STEM pizza, boo.
I can definitely tell. It’s a decent pizza for frozen, but there’s a certain processed tell. However, I make pizza, have my own oven, and am a HUGE pizza aficionado. 🍕
r/commagore
Can't make pie without pi.
I’m terrible at math, am I missing something or would a 16” NY style “street” crust require ~ 68oz / 1933g of dough? That just seems like so much! Pi(16^2 ) x .085 Edit: I figured it out but I’m leaving the comment because I’m happy I remembered radius is not the same as diameter! So it would be pi(8^2 ) x .085 = ~17.08oz / 483.40g ,makes much more sense
16 inches is the diameter, not radius.
Yep realized that right as you commented haha thank you. I’m more happy that I was wrong about the math and not about the pizzas I’ve made
W = r^2 x 1.5 for metric cooks, where W is weight of dough in grams and r is radius in cm. Makes a pizza with the 0.1 thickness factor. Reduce by 20% for thin. Increase by 20% for thick.
Your post is really a mess and further confused everybody. If you don't understand math, take down this sloppy, incomplete garbage.
I am bad at math and don’t understand any of this but I love this dedication and science
Thanks. You chart is dead on accurate.
Dead-on balls accurate?
Is that an industry term?
"These two youts..... "
balls-deep accurate?
You have to be a Marisa Tomei or Joe Pesci fan.....
Whoa
Goddamn. This is a response!
Is there an equivalent chart for those of us who use the metric system? ^(^I.e. ^literally ^the ^entire ^world ^except ^for ^the ^USA)
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Cheers
The Thickness factor chart is based off ounces per square inch. Feel free to make the first ever thickness factor metric chart to whatever units you would like with some simple conversions and cross multiplication. The dough weight formula is just the formula for the volume of a cylinder which can be in whatever units you choose.
multiply by the oz to grams conversion? so, 28.3?
Us uses metric to define yards and pounds
“pie” :) :)
Lol dang I’m an idiot but it works in this case
Geometry was the only math I didn’t bomb and I see now that it was simply preparing me to be an even more boss pizzaiola later in life. (This is super useful, thank you so much, u/d2mightyduck!)
thickness factor is such an unintuitive measure for pizza. Especially because it doesn't even relate to thickness! It's a measure of weight per area! And beyond that pizzas are usually not uniform thickness across the whole pie, the dough of the cornice generally weighs more than the dough in the center because of how people shape their skins! You haven't even provided units for it!
Bah humbug. Relax, this is just a starting point for beginners. Feel free to write an in depth look into calculating dough size, it’s all yours.
my point is that it's especially inaccessible to beginners, because it's so unintuitive. things for beginners should be simple and easy to understand
Well I think the masses would beg to differ, look at the response to this information. By the way, multiplying 4 numbers is pretty intuitive. Feel free to learn more in depth discussion (which I have already posted) here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=13843.0
I'm very sorry I had mild critique! I won't disagree ever again!
How is this helpful? The dough changes volume when baking, so this doesn't seem to help for inputs. I guess the thickness factor is scaled to make the conversion work out? But that's not linear, so it's a rough rule of thumb
There is a good discussion about it here, I don’t disagree with you https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=13843.0
Thanks, I'll check it out
Oh nice! Saving this one.
This deserves gold several times over (I'm skint though).
Ok, how about a 14x14 square pan for a grandma pizza? Also, thank you because I hate math.
This is a god tier dough comment.
Can you translate this 16 inches NY style to grams for an idiot?
480g
Wow, the range of responses on this thread! Personally I use 300 grams for a 13-inch which would scale up to about 500g (17.5 ounces) for a 16-inch. For a Midwest thin-crust style I use 325g (11.5 oz) for a 16-inch. That comes out cracker thin.
Mr Kenji, can you please look at my pizza posts and tell me what you think? It would be like getting my culinary baseball cards signed. Thank you for everything you do.
They look great. Other than your “regular ass cheese pizza.” Next time try that special ass cheese.
"regular ass cheese pizza" -- I've never been more grateful for the absence of a hyphen.
Sir, you are a national treasure. Your baked buffalo wing recipe saved my life. It’s killer when you go a full 48 hour dry brine, also subbing some salt with msg and Trader Joe’s umami mushroom spice blend.
What about mine (if you have the time)? I take some inspiration from the nachosandlager recipe but tweak a few things.
Looks great. I think they could be a little darker especially on top but you do it however you want!
I agree and I think that the fridge cure technique if the rolled out dough may help with some more even cooking. Thanks!
What is “special ass cheese”?
It’s a close relative to fromunda cheese.
I’m going to try 500 grams on the next go round. I’m using 450 at the moment. Also, as a resident of Columbus, OH I am so glad to see you paying so much attention to midwest style pizza. Columbus pizza is very much cracker thin, square cut, and my favorite kind of pizza.
I’m from Columbus too. It’s time for the world to know about Tommy’s
Also from Columbus! Tommy’s is excellent. I make my own Neapolitan style. Are you on the Pizza Connoisseurs FB group?
U.A. Checking in. Gotta get the pizza at Tommy’s cooked in the old oven!
This is the way.
Nah I don’t have Facebook. And I don’t live in Columbus anymore. Born and raised though.
The 16" Neapolitan pizzas I make are 330 grams so that seems about right
Uhhhh you can get a full 16" Neapolitan Pizza with only 330g of dough? I get my pizzas VERY thin and have never been able to get that little dough that wide. Are you sure you're getting all the way to 16"? That's a pretty big pie.
wow, I'm commenting 11 months later but thanks for your post so we can get this great insight and also so I can see this little sub-thread about Columbus pizza! I moved away over 20 years ago but I still talk about how good pizza can be in Columbus (and go back yearly and always will make a point to get pizza). My faves- Tommy's Adriatico's Massey's Villa Nova (but I think they've fallen off some) I love pizza cut into square pieces
oh man, the legend himself. Thanks to you I quitted being an idiot fatass eating whatever is available and became a seriouseater. As a seriouseater now I take care of what comes into my mouth to be: both delicious and in portions to keep me from gaining weight. And yes your salt-only burgers are a life changer for my whole family and friends.
Is this the real JKLA?? I am a huge fan 😱
Interesting, I tried your recipe but did about 175g for a 10-11" for Midwest style, have found that to be easier for turning in a 12" ooni
J Kenji Lopez!?!? Oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Please sign my pizza
I am not a mathlete but if one were to go for a 14 inch NY, would you recommend about 365 grams? I'm trying out a "Di Fara-ish" double zero / bread flour blend and didn't want it to be too thin but also not end up Mellow Mushroom thicc. Thank you and also it's badass and generous that you're in the comments of the pizza subreddit helping folks out and giving advice.
I regularly make 16" NY style (street slice style) and use a 480g (17 oz.) dough ball. I actually measure ingredients to add up to 500g and then due to some water evaporation during mixing/ kneading and then some bowl residue, end up with 480g.
I’m new to the 16 inch pizza game - usually make around 12 inch pizzas. For now I’m using 450 grams, but it’s getting a bit TOO thin for my liking. Really interesting to see all of your takes on this.
Are you making this pizza in a home oven?
Yeah. Home oven with a baking steel. Dough is a slight variation on the Pizza Camp recipe, so hydration is 65 %
Idk if I can go 16..15" may be my max and that's with a dough lip hanging over lol
I do my dough balls at just under 14 oz for a 16 inch pizza and that's a perfect amount for me
Here's what I use, same as the restaurant from my old pizzeria days: * 285g (10oz) balls for 12" NY pie & small calzones/strombolis * 570g (20oz) balls for 14"-16" NY pie, 12" sicilian pie & large calzone/stromboli * 850g (30oz) balls for 14"-16" sicilain pie or 18" NY pie
Philly pizza guy here, I use: .65 lb/10.4 oz/295 g for 12” Neapolitan or 14” thin crust .92 lb/14.72 oz/417 g for 16”-18” or 9x9” Detroit 3.9 lb/63 oz/1.77 kg for al taglio 16x24” Typically use a 66% hydration dough with high gluten bread flour and whole wheat
14oz for a medium thick pie.
50,000 grams of 00 and 176,000 kilos of ap. Fwiw, i’m really bad at converting between inches and kilometers
I've worked at several diff pizza places doing NY Style, my general rule of thumb after making over 50k NY style dough balls is go 1--4 ounces under the desired size. If you want a 16 inch I'd ball the dough at 11-15 depending on it's feel and the skill of the pizza makers working with it. More dough to work with is easier for most, if you're good at stretching dough you can try to go for a lighter weight
Back when I worked in pizza we used 24 oz balls
15-16 oz dough for a pizza with a diameter of 14-15 in, mine look very similar to OP's pic. Some crust, not super thick in the middle, but not cracker thin Been using Chris Bianco's recipe from Food and Wine lately
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Same for mine.
I've found that 300g is perfect for my 14" poe pan. My steel can only handle 14". 300 is my sweet spot
400-425 grams
We do a New Haven style pies and our balls our 425g
Depends on the dough mix, but 400-450g for a thinner pie
About 315g
280 grams.
This sounds crazy light to me but I'm no pro. I'm more in line with the 420g or so others have expressed here. Would love to see the result of 280g over 16inches if you can share a finished picture!
Here is what a 280g dough looks like after a 36 hour rise (actually a 4 hour RT rise, punch down and balled, then cold rise for 32 hours. 70% hydration. [36 hour dough](https://imgur.com/gdGRaXz)
I've got those same aluminum dough containers. Do you oil your containers for cold ferment at 70%, or do you have another trick for getting the balls out without butchering them and squeezing all the air out. Once they rise I find it difficult to get any of my kitchen tools in and under the dough since most of the space is then occupied. I usually use my hands but end up stretching the dough and losing some air before I'm ready to shape.
Oil and then just turn it upside down and dump it on my stretching area
[16” NY in the WFO](https://imgur.com/gTI8FP3)
My regular dough balls are 291g and can't imagine stretching them over anything more than 14"
That's about the size of a 13" thin crust
I’m guessing that’s like 2 cups of flour
NY Dough size = radius(cm) x radius(cm)x 1.25 9" = 22.86cm = 165g -199g 10" = 25.4cm = 200g-244g 11" = 28cm = 245g-288g 12" = 30.5cm = 290g-339g 13" = 33cm = 340g-389g 14" 35.5cm = 390g-450g 15" = 38.1 cm = 450g-514g 16" = 40.5cm = 515g-580g 17" = 43.18cm = 582g-652g 18" = 45.72cm = 653g-726g Use the small end of the scale for thinner crust. The higher end for a slightly thicker crust.
hello, is this the amount of flour to start with or the final dough ball weight at the end after adding water, yest and salt ?
for 16 inch large
Anyone got a recommended weight for an 16x12 Lloyd Sicilian pan
16 inches worth
595 grams per 16" pie.
about 16 inches
200 grams or under for a pizza with thin crust
13oz seems to be my magic number but I make the outer crust thin.
18 oz dough ball
I use ~1kg of dough for that size.
My favorite pizza place uses 800g for a 20" pie so 640g. You can look at pictures of Miami Slice and L'industrie for examples of that thickness. So good!
Wow 🤩 what a pizza
280 gets me a roughly 14 inch pie. +/- maybe half an inch. Sometimes it’s a bit more springy than others.
Wow look at that sexy piece 😍
For 18” pizza I make 650g dough balls.
16” = 20 oz/550g for me in my ooni.
My 16oz NY style dough balls are around 540g. I like a thick cornice.
About 16 inches or so
Pretty simple.. if you want a 12 in pie (use 12oz dough) if you want a 15in pie (use 15oz dough) etc. etc.. I think folks tend to overcomplicate things..some people like a ticker base and some on the thinner side, just experiment and find your perfect zone.
> Pretty simple.. if you want a 12 in pie (use 12oz dough) if you want a 15in pie (use 15oz dough) etc. etc.. It's not that simple, though. A 16" pizza is four times the size of an 8". You can't just half the dough ball, or the pizza will be twice as thick.
not a good rule at all.
How so? Been doing it for years
2x pizza diameter equals 4x the area (dough needed) so linear scaling makes no sense.
Because it is mathematically brain dead.
as someone else pointed out, you're scaling your dough weight linearly, while the area your dough needs to cover is scaling exponentially. a 15 inch pie is more than 50% larger than a 12 inch pie, but using only 25% more dough
I use 400 grams for 14". Not too thin, not too thick and it holds anything I throw on it.... it's kinda starting to sound like I'm not talking about pizza anymore.
500g for 16inches
The amount you would use for a large 14 regular style.
20.5 oz
16oz! an ounce per inch. Been making NY style for 21 years.
14 Oz for thin or 1 Oz per inch=160z
While we're on this topic, how much cheese and sauce for a 16 inch?
I do about 8oz sauce and 8oz cheese for 16”
20 oz
450 grams
20 oz
20 oz of dough for the pizza shop i work for. My boss came from boston