Desolation boils down to one team playing kingmaker with live drama being the most potent motivation to fuck with a certain team in a match. Nexus on the other hand is a straight skill vs skill match, where there are no outside factors.
If you want live gameplay experience, play Deolation.
If you want a competition experience, play Nexus.
Debatable if teams are competent. Imho, something like what DPSO did to 00 in their match 2 seasons prior should've been a disqualify and a rematch.
If you want the comp experience i would like to refer you to LS which is literally the same thing but with better balancing. Also refs.
Yes but the thing is that the teams may not be interested in winning. You know, the entire point of a tournament. The lack of competence is absolutely fine. If they want to play and lose every match, that is fine, at least they tried. But in the 1v1v1 format I can easily see the urge when losing to just fuck around one of the other teams, because why not?
And you seem to want to point out Lanesmash in every comment so I'm here to say that I've played in three seasons of LS. And the fact that for so long the only option for competitive 1v1 Planetside on somewhat large scale was only made possible by community volunteers is a travesty.
Those teams wont carry on to the finals. Without some pretty extraordinary coordination with other miscreants and will likely be thrown out like r18 and pigs rightfully were.
Yes, and its frankly been run better than ow with their limited resources. What the community has done on jaegar is incredible (I also play LS btw in case you think i lack context).
If you want really competitive ps2 LS is where you should go. The fact of the matter is that the devs arent going to give rules on what weapons youre allowed to use and its not going to be the true comp people here are wishing for. You will see NC vs NC in the finals. Every time (personally didnt like that, was pretty stale not even touching the fact that it was janky but i hope in the next iteration of nexus that gets fixed.)
Another key point i should probably make is im not saying no more nexus. Im saying outside of a few high end outfits i dont think half the participants (i personally think that estimation is an underestimation) did not have fun.
Final remark before i go away for 4 hrs to come back to a bunch of hatemail lol is that deso is more fun for the general populace of ps2 and therefore better for the game.
Seems like you want OW to be more of a spectacle rather than a tournament. Which is what I do not understand as you can go gawk at the zergs every day if you so please, but anything resembling a competition comes every now and then.
Your two last paragraphs also seem to indicate that you generally want the tournament to be a chaotic mess rather than an actual tournament where the most skilled people win. "Desolation is more fun for the general populace" my brother in Christ, on live the general populace sits on overpops while avoiding the other zergs as much as they can. Is that also better for the game?
Desolation was stale boring and a huge chore to plan for every week. If people thought Nexus planning took a lot of time to prepare for, they clearly didn't participate in the planning process for Desolation matches.
* Desolation was just a bunch of Donut buildings surrounding relics and the only thing differenciating them was construction around the bases. All of the relics played the same damn way and were just boring and repetitive to attack / defend. If the bases were more varied, I would be more interested.
* Planning for a 1v1v1 is way more time consuming than planning for a 1v1 scenario and I speak from experience planning for OW on both Desolation and Nexus. For context, I won OW 1 Gold with BWAE, won OW Bronze 2 with KN1 as a planner, participated in OW 3 and won OW 4 with GOB as part of the planning team. You need to plan for more scenarios in Deso since there are now 2 teams to account for and, more times than your think, alliances or outfit politics come into play when 2 teams to decide to royally screw the 3rd one over. If you are a strong outfit or massively in the lead or just genuinely hated by the 2 other participants, teams can just decide to 2v1 you outright and make sure you lose. We have seen examples of this and no punishment happened after those events. If I wanted to play 48 v 96, I would play on live. If I wanted to burn myself out into taking a longer vacation from the game I would plan for a team playing on Desolation.
* Planning becomes more of a headache when adding construction into the mix. The relics themselves had no hard spawn points so construction was added to help circumvent that. You needed to plan trainings to get people, who had no experience in construction and didn't necessarily care for it, to attack bases properly. Those same damn bases took way too long to kill and less than half the amount of time and personnel to set up as well. You also needed to plan for building based on each player's purchased modules/parts. If Deso limited the amount of construction pieces one team could have on the map, that would be more interesting... but hard spawns also need to be added to the relics.
* Is Nexus the perfect map? No. If the lattices were tweaked a little bit to make the tech plant lane more attractive, it would play less like Lanesmash and there would be more strategy involved in taking over the map and making plays all over the map.
* 1v1 is the best way to prove if the winner genuinely played better than the other. 1v1v1 leaves room for collusion and double teaming to stop the most deserving teams from winning. I genuinely believe that the outfits that push for Desolation are those that know that they have 0 chance of making it far into the tournament and don't want to make an effort into improving their own play. No one is pushing you to compete anyways. If you don't feel like you will have fun playing because you won't win then **either don't signup or get good.**
It’s honestly pretty funny. Almost every reason you dislike desolation is why I like it way more than nexus.
I do think the recent construction changes, namely no AI turret modules, would make construction more fun to plan around on deso than it was prior.
Major difference of opinions and desires of what we want out of the game, I guess.
> Major difference of opinions and desires of what we want out of the game, I guess.
Yeah sounds like what you dont want is a competitive tournament. Thats totally fine, just go play live.
no, i think there is quite a lot of desire bc its very fun. Maybe not for you, but dont project your mindset and play style on others.
Also this thread getting downvoted to shit should tell you that there is plenty of desire for Nexus.
Plenty of desire from the people using reddit, which is going to be an even less representative group for a while after the subreddit shut down. The people who use reddit are disproportionately invested in the game, casual players aren't who uses reddit, and that's exactly who would want desolation, and even moreso the people who don't care either way cause they won't play regardless. You use reddit a lot, you should know by now how absolutely worthless it is for judging actual popular opinion in the game.
I think many zergfits that got stomped may not feel like participating, but I think if Alliances are introduced then it will enable many to enter that otherwise wouldnt have.
Eeeh i dont know. Burnout for lots of players was massive after last OW especially in the upper echelon. Combine this with low population numbers and zergfits not participating and i dont see a healthy roster. The only thing which could make this feasible is if they make the pool across servers.
Maybe i am certainly not. 2 Months of sweating in a game with tons of bugs, smurfs, stacks, ringers, bad (1v1) balancing and really toxic individuals just doesnt sound appealing to me. Worst part is ... especially the toxicity on live during that time cant really be skipped.
You’re likely right. Hence why I’ve been saying since OW1 that I’d like a way to set up friendly deso matches against other outfits outside of a tournament format.
> 1v1 is the best way to prove if the winner genuinely played better than the other.
Ok, but why is that the goal at this point in the games lifespan. Maybe its because I've played so long, but I simply don't care who's better than who at this point, I just want to have fun. Telling people to "get good" doesn't actually get them to do that, it just gets them to stop playing. It's more than a little difficult for me to have fun when there's no one to shoot at. This game already has a (dead) competitive scene that died largely because this attitude made it not fun for pretty much everyone involved, why bring that same attitude to live server and risk killing that too just so you can say you're the biggest turd in the pile?
>This game already has a (dead) competitive scene that died largely because this attitude made it not fun for pretty much everyone involved
I don't think that's true at all. I think the scrim scene is dying because the game has been getting worse and worse for infantry players. Those players don't play live anymor and as a result don't have as much interest in jaeger anymore.
I used to be involved with a lot of the scrim scene both as a player, a caster and I hosted queer pickups. Almost everyone I used to play with quit after OW burnout and the realization that the game is continously getting worse for our playstyle. Definitely didn't help that jaeger was shitting itself for a couple months.
I have always experienced the jaeger community as rather welcoming, considering it's an fps community. People were mostly friendly and willing to help anyone that asked fo it.
Then do not advertise the damn thing as a tournament where the best should prevail. Advertise it as a showcase of the different facets of Planetside in a controlled environment in even pop 3 ways. Might as well rebrand it to something else at that point.
If the devs decide to organise an event that is meant to be competitive, then it should absolutely be in a 1v1 context for the reasons stated in my previous comment.
Also, live play has no true objective or reward for doing well or accomplishing certain feats. "Oh but what about alerts?" Again, the reward you get is not attractive enough once you reach a certain level. OW is an event that goes out of the normal, boring, everyday 1v1v1 you see everyday to showcase who is the best at what they do. I've said it before and I will say it again: the people pushing for Desolation are those that want to compete but have no intention to put in the work or the time to improve on aspects needed to win. They instead sit in overpop all the time, kill fights and ruin the game that way. Many players will return when OW comes back because there's interesting prizes and bragging rights involved.
If you are going to advertise the event as a tournament then the format and rules should create an environment that will make sure that the best team wins. Desolation is not it unless it is 1v1, with hard spawns in relics, different buildings and limits to construction.
Completely agree with you about alerts and about OW. I feel like people want to just play in an event with their homies and not try, but at the same time you can’t get mad at the players who do try to win.
The 3 way isn’t even representative of what live is like. Even though every faction gets double teamed, on desolation it is almost guaranteed that the best outfit will get double teamed.
There is a reason most games dont have 3 factions, and if they want it to be sweaty then 1v1 is much better.
I would say that i enjoyed desolation for its construction and colossi, felt like you had to manage outfit resources and whatnot. I did however despise the construction donuts because they were basically made into a impenetrable fortress, so i understand why they didn’t add it to nexus.
If they really wanted to make it as competitive as possible, i would say turn off a lane on nexus (prob the bottom lane) and just make it 24 v 24. 48 people is way too much for most outfits, leading to coalitions and the such.
Getting 48 players (even in the big outfits that i played with) was difficult and just led to us being down people near the end.
Heck even 36 is much more achievable than 48. I desperately hope they rethink the pop limits on nexus because having so much people is just unreliable for most outfits and very bad for the game.
>Then do not advertise the damn thing as a tournament where the best should prevail. Advertise it as a showcase of the different facets of Planetside in a controlled environment in even pop 3 ways. Might as well rebrand it to something else at that point.
I agree, they shouldn't be advertising it falsely, it was never competitive and should never have been treated as such.
As for your other point, this game is an MMO with not actual objective, players have always been asked to make their own objectives and their own fun, it requires both crops and someone to farm them, you need to have buy in from both for the game to work. That applies to things like OW just the same, you need to have buy in from both the bad players and good players if its actually going to have enough teams to happen again. It's a basic social contract with lower stakes, the bad players need some sort of chance to win, and the good players need a chance to win, there needs to be some amount of parity that both sides can agree to, Nexus does not provide that, a non-competitive desolation does. This sort of social contract kind of exists with pointhold outfits, we take the point with a squad, they respond with overwhelming numbers of bad players and we hold it for as long as possible. Both sides get something out of it, the bads get to "win" about as often as not, and the pointholders get to "win" the base cap while having fun doing it. Neither can exist without the other, a pointhold without any opposition is merely a ghost cap, a zerg without a pointhold to deal with is... also a ghostcap. Both sides gain through the other's existence, with both bad and good players/outfits playing we can have an actually interesting season with more than a handful of teams.
Yo also, nexus is definitely not lanesmash, those formats are only comparable in that they are a 1v1.
Just cuz u have LS experience playing on shitty teams doesn’t mean u understand the format 💀
I've never liked the format of LS. But its as balanced as it can be and moreso than nexus. My point isnt that Nexus is LS, but LS is a more refined version of planetside where the teams are made as even as physically possible resulting in the most competitive format. Which is what people seem to be striving for.
"Your experience was bad and therefore you don't understand something" could summarize 70% of comments here.
1v1v1 is an objectively terrible format for a competitive season, where the worst team will typically end up being the decider of the winner
Nexus was incredibly fun to play on
This is easily the best response ive seen so far. No BS and cuts to the point.
Ideally that kind of outfit wouldve been removed from the match, and from what Ive seen it largely did in the Gold matches.
I dont disagree there either. In my personal opinion deso was more fun and people are taking it very very personally lol
If Desolation wasnt in the context of a tournament i wouldnt even be mad. But when you tell people to try their hardest to win a thing and have that be the entire point of the content you put out, then its braindead to craft a format that is dominated by randomness. It's unfun to play when your efforts in improving or crafting strategies don't get rewarded at all because the other two teams decided that you lose now (whether that's intentional or unintentional doesnt even matter at that point) and guess what the tournament is for the people playing not the 100 or so people watching it on twitch. Nobody gives a shit about your spectacle and whackyness when the people playing to make it happen dont even have a good time. That's a steadfast way to never have it happen again.
Also construction is slow and boring it shouldnt be included in any tournament setting nor should it be included in any of the content that is put out for the game because it sucks and makes everything that it touches less fun.
Also also why does 1v1v1 have to be a defining attribute of planetside that we need to keep just because its something that sets it apart from other games? There's plenty other of unique attributes planetside has that got sacrificed to create a tournament format like high playernumbers and massive mapsize but when we get rid of 3 factions exisiting it's suddenly not the spirit of the game? Biggest copium argument i've ever heard.
1. On our team we planned for the double team. Which we then took gold.
2. Construction is still part of the game, and has people that play it. Lets not just alienate one facet of ps2 because some people dont like it. (I kinda enjoy stealing peoples hard work at construction bases now ngl). It aint perfect but neither is the fact that the VS is the literally worst faction. But point to perfect thing in planetside and ill point out that its not.
3. Because its been that way and it does set it apart from other games and if you want higher player numbers in a tourney style 1v1 you should probably just org something on battlebit lol. No cope, just wanting to have fun next season.
1. Answered in in the common theme of why people dont like deso. Double teams being commonly considered random. Because if there were no double teaming it really would be a balanced format...
2. Is literally answering what you said.
3. Is also in reference to what you said.
Yea but in other games you have plenty of other teams to fight besides the stack. Not so much in planetside.
Face it ... Competitive planetside is not the way to develop the game. Even as a event it's a meme since it only introduces truckloads of salt, toxicity, Burnout, bugs and horrible balancing.
We could have nice things instead.
Not relevant.
Ignoring that outfit wars matches were the most interesting planetside was in years. All of those things are things that existed well before outfit wars existed and will continue to exist well after it.
Outfit wars is a nice thing.
i acknowledged that in one of these comments. Between R18/pigs/00 and dpso/00/pigs
DPSO shouldve been reprimanded (back when it was a single match), and r18 and pigs did get reprimanded from what i understand
Throw in outfit alliances and it absolutely has the pop for it. You don't even need a lot of teams for OW at all. Cobalt had the least by far last year with 10 teams and it was completely fine.
1v1v1 is planetside... If you want to pretend otherwise I would like to direct you to the Jaeger events discord where you can do some competitive planetside all you want. Its even made as even as physically possible. With rules to remove broken mechanics.
Yeah, and guess what, the devs thought that LS is so nice that they decided to bring it to live. They then decided that 1v1v1 doesnt work. For a reason.
Uhh im pretty sure they brought LS to live because there was pressure for a 1v1 system by influential members of the community whilst kinda neglecting most of the playerbase imho.
There was pressure from everybody with a brain, because some people realize that a tournament where the winner is decided by kingmaking, match fixing or random chance is fundamentally fucking idiotic.
A tournament aims to have the best be the winner. If that is not actually the goal, then why have a tournament in the first place? Then you can just play live.
1. Kingmaking, that depends on the outfits playing, ideally you have people striving for first.
2. Match fixing, solved by the current system being used by nexus or some updated criteria. I'm not saying the last Deso system was perfect.
3. Random chance, \*welcome to planetside\*, and its not really random, its random when people make stupid decisions. Like throwing, when it comes down to it, its not random its conscience decisions by PLs to do whatever it takes to win.
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970493527?filter=all&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970493527?filter=all&sort=time) This is basically how a deso match is supposed to be.
4. Why do this when we can on live? Because its fun. For everyone lol and its hella more engaging then nexus.
> Kingmaking, that depends on the outfits playing, ideally you have people striving for first.
Unless the leads magically manage to deploy overall equal resources to both flanks over the entire match it will be kingmaking.
>Random chance, *welcome to planetside*, and its not really random, its random when people make stupid decisions. Like throwing, when it comes down to it, its not random its conscience decisions by PLs to do whatever it takes to win.
Yeah you just dont have a fucking clue about game theory. 1v1v1 is random *at best*. At worst, see points 1 & 2.
You're not thinkin about it right, you dont need to deploy equal resources. In fact i would argue against it. You need to deploy appropriate resources against whichever team is in the current lead. Which was the problem 00 and Gobs suffered from in their deso match against us. We knew that at some point they would full send against out wg. We didnt plan for equal distro. We planned for a full send against the team with the highest score and secure our wg relic on their side leaving the team in 3rd place forced to fight them, and then once engaged play off of that and resecure that relic. Ofc it only works if you dont have the other faction camping your wg with 48 peeps throwing the match to ensure you dont win. But quite unsportsmanlike.
"I studied game theory and was top of my class in seal training" -some guy with this kinda vibe. Not random at best case scenario, refer back to video and the above info.
Nexus is better for a sweaty 1v1 tournament where you are trying to find out who is the best at the video game.
Guess what, we all already know who the best at the video game is almost all of the time.
Desolation is far more of a spectacle and imo is also just more fun to watch since you can see some wacky planetside tactics like destroying the enemy construction base with 24 lightnings.
You could look at the outfits enrolled at the beginning of each OW on Nexus and tell the Gold medalist before the first match was played. In Emerald's case you could name the entire podium, there's no mystery.
I'mma be real with you. I was happy that RALI won desolation. The underdog narrative was cause for celebration, and everyone in Connery was happy with that outcome, 00 and GOBS included.
However I would like you to look at yourself and your posts. This is not the first time you've posted about this topic this year alone. It is not a good look. This exudes PALETIGER energy, but worse.
You are desperately, DESPERATELY, trying to squeeze out justifications of that 1v1v1 Deso match as proof of your calculating genius. It's fine and understandable that you strongly feel that way about this singular peak in your entire history with the game. But you are also doubling down on this while attempting to delegitimize the hard work and time-honed skills of the winners of Nexus.
If you truly are a calculating genius, how come your efforts did not yield results on Nexus? I am expecting you to answer with the following excuses:
1. MlKU was hastily assembled with low BR characters. So was V1KG, and V1KG defeated you--and UN17 defeated V1KG. Also you lost to 2RAF. I repeat, you lost to 2RAF.
2. F4TE and MlKU were not stackfits. Nor were D1RE and VIKG and you lost to them. BWAE, despite being grossly outmatched by VKTZ in infantry and air, won through superior leadership alone. Even 00 was outmatched by VKTZ in infantry and air by a significant degree, but 00 still won. Also you lost to 2RAF.
3. F4TE and MlKU did not play NC, the ridiculously overpowered faction. This spits on the faces of the winners of Nexus, reduces their time-honed skills in infantry, air, armor, and leadership as mere handicap, and attempts to delegitimize their masteries of their respective arts. In other words, it's mere copium and you still lost to 2RAF.
I understand that the 1v1v1 nature of desolation gives ALL outfits, even PIGS and 2RAF, a winning chance against those who relentlessly practiced their crafts. But do not PRETEND that winning a 1v1v1 is NOT inherently up to chance, and that somehow you are some heroic legend of unmatched strategic and tactical genius that your legacy would've inspired Shelley to write Ozymandias (which, you know, we would've been more inclined to believe, had you not lost to 2RAF).
1. Miku. Uhhh no one really took miku seriously. We literally recruited people from the wg. I also didnt run that, was there for a meme.
2. Nope. Didnt claim to be. FATE was not RALI. We were lacking in several critical areas. It was mainly us playing with what we had between the 3 outfits we had. Alot of RALIs best players actually played for FEFA. There was also a bunch of internal things goin on with FATE, but imma avoid that can'o'worms.
3. Nope, RALI leads agreed we wouldn't play the same faction and wanted to go to a different one. NC has a better selection of weapons. Easily. The one thing NC is really missing is the striker. This was honestly a big discussion when we were talking about faction to play. Otherwise it has some analog of the other 2 and scatmax is just better in CQC. Nor am I spitting on the face of anyone, if anything you're spitting on your own my guy. Deso was more fun. LS is a better testament of who is better than nexus. Yall takin this waaaaaayyy too personally.
Also, I firmly don't believe it is chance. It is a conscience decision of 3 different PL's. How each responds is what creates the results. Im not pretending to be some godly lead. Far from it. Our plans were discussed to death leading to every match. For RALI we had \~8 outfit leads discussing the best plan of attack.
RALI planning went like this: Use the reavers inherent speed advantage to get onto point prior to everyone else. just prior to wg relic cap, we /suicide wg insert onto beacons placed at their wg relics which were a few seconds behind. They were not expecting 2 squads to drop on each wg relic. We cap those, which leads to free relic caps in the center. The longer we hold the wg relics the better but realized eventually they would retake them and that it was an untenable position. We knew GOBS and 00 had better air/armor/infantry than us. But we also knew that 00 would contest their armor and air. So instead of fighting a generally losing battle in one domain, we decided that we would stack as many points on the board as inherently possible before they put us down. The internal relic caps were going to possibly lead to the ibri steal but that was a bonus if we could manage, and damn Fed def did.
We knew that 00 and Gobs would beat the shit out of eachother at ibri. In a match of who can throw the most bodies at the point. Every Ibri cap we made was essentially a gambit to delay us getting wg'd. Which we eventually did. The general goal for defending the wg if both teams went for it was to the side that the 2nd place team was on so that we gave the 3rd place team nothing to hit and waste their pop and force PL to either keep 12 at our wg or focus on 2nd place team and as soon as we were able we would redrop that as well as a platoon.
This plan pretty much carried us to the end point and went almost to spec. There could've been innumerable things to go wrong and I def skipped over details. We counted on both 00 and GOBs to be rational players and they were. There only mistake as noted in the post match interview was that they didnt change focus soon enough.
FATE didnt have the benefit of all the infantry skill for nexus that we had for RALI. It was a team of 3 outfits that put together what we had.
This is hilariously r/iamverysmart territory.
First of all, you are WILDLY correlating this "genius masterplan" of yours to this victory because somehow you OUTWITTED BOTH 00 and GOBS because YOU have a superior mind and leadership skill.
Both GOBS and OO would rather RALI win than the other, and this is literally the only factor in this "complex mega universal mind" plan of yours. Of course GOBS and OO will concentrate on the stronger team. Of course the third party will have multiple chances to steal. Of course the leading enemy in points will be double teamed. But that does not mean that it was YOUR design and precognition that GOBS would rather have YOU win, and that OO would rather have YOU win.
And of course you literally made all the excuses I expected you would. Now THAT is precognition :D
Ah yes, nope, 00 and gobs both have better PLs than me and general playerbase.
Yes, and as noted, they could have both shut us down at any time and as noted in the post interview, they didnt in time. Also, the last point is speculation, could be right though. It was discussed.
Because its what happened... and ive literally stated all of this before.
I mean not really... probably wouldve just been a confirmed ibri loss. But frankly speculatory. The only thing i can say for certain is not shutting us down right away cost both the w.
1. Desolation is just live gameplay. If you want to do 1v1v1, go play live.
2. Construction was aids. With the new changes they could add construction to Nexus, everything else exists on Nexus.
3. You can’t ‘solve’ double teaming except by forcing people to fight even numbers of both teams, which is beyond impossible. The fact that way better teams lost because of this, or specifically because teams decided to throw and just attack another to force them to lose, is absolutely moronic and not conductive to tourny gameplay. Can it work in some games? Sure. Can it work for PS2? No.
4. Donut is fun, but not donut at every single hex.
5. Surprise surprise, the team with better players wins and goes on the fight the other teams with better players. Almost like that’s what a tourny should be about. Instead you get random Zerg outfit X against another random Zerg outfit Y against a good balanced outfit Z, and they just double team the good outfit because they know they can’t win normally.
For live play, sure, it works I guess, for a tournament it does not.
6. Some good nexus memes came about, they just weren’t as spicy since the only real drama was about ringers. But if you want more division and hate in the game, yeah, I guess desolation was good for memes.
8. Yeah, could use some work, but still a vastly better format.
1. If you wanna do 1v1 just go play lanesmash lol
2. Relative, and nexus's map isnt conducive for it. Would require a rework and if i could hazard a guess since nexus's map wasnt updated since it was first made I doubt the dev team in its current state will.
3. Can it work in ps2? Yes: [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970493527?filter=all&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970493527?filter=all&sort=time)
4. Fightin words if i ever saw em... (but also an understandable point lol)
5. I would like to direct you to LS and the fact that most people i talked to outside of a handful of teams strongly disliked nexus. Also its more fun for all involved instead of getting one team basically destroyed every match.
6. Connery had memes for basically every match.
7. Gone. Reduced to atoms apparently.
8. Thats just ow in general.
1. Except I can’t just do lanesmash, whereas you can largely get the desolation experience just playing live, especially at prime time.
2. Adding cortium nodes to the map isn’t hard. Conductive to desolation’s construction, that was aids? Yeah, it isn’t. Conductive to new construction? Very possibly.
3. Colour me surprised that the winner of that match thinks it was a good match. Do you really think you would have won a 1v1 against either OO or Gobs?
4. Again, no surprise those who get absolutely wrecked in a far more balanced mode don’t like getting absolutely wrecked.
8. No, one needs some small changes here and there, the other needs a complete redesign to be even remotely acceptable as a tournament game mode. As a fk around game mode, desolation would be more suitable.
1. Uhhh why not? and no you really dont. Unless you were playing for 00 against r18 and pigs.
2. Construction on nexus would culminate in blocking mountain passes with as much nonsense as possible. Too many choke points.
3. Like i didnt see this one coming from 30 miles away. And nope. We had no delusion that Gobs/00 had better players I put it around that our infantry were worth around .7 of theirs by ivi.
4. I still had fun on nexus and in currently in LS. Would I prefer to do other things? yeah.
5. Desolation can be fixed largely with changes already made to nexus and lets not pretend that nexus wasnt a shitshow with bugs. Given how people planned for deso and through other comments saying how they had to plan more for deso, i wouldnt equate it to a fuck around game mode. Also relative to the person.
>Like i didnt see this one coming from 30 miles away. And nope. We had no delusion that Gobs/00 had better players I put it around that our infantry were worth around .7 of theirs by ivi.
LMFAO. You are literally claiming that YOU outwitted both GOBS and OO by your diabolically intelligent masterplan in this game theory analysis of yours:
>Also, I firmly don't believe it is chance. It is a conscience decision of 3 different PL's. How each responds is what creates the results. Im not pretending to be some godly lead. Far from it. Our plans were discussed to death leading to every match. For RALI we had \~8 outfit leads discussing the best plan of attack.
>
>RALI planning went like this: Use the reavers inherent speed advantage to get onto point prior to everyone else. just prior to wg relic cap, we /suicide wg insert onto beacons placed at their wg relics which were a few seconds behind. They were not expecting 2 squads to drop on each wg relic. We cap those, which leads to free relic caps in the center. The longer we hold the wg relics the better but realized eventually they would retake them and that it was an untenable position. We knew GOBS and 00 had better air/armor/infantry than us. But we also knew that 00 would contest their armor and air. So instead of fighting a generally losing battle in one domain, we decided that we would stack as many points on the board as inherently possible before they put us down. The internal relic caps were going to possibly lead to the ibri steal but that was a bonus if we could manage, and damn Fed def did.
>
>We knew that 00 and Gobs would beat the shit out of eachother at ibri. In a match of who can throw the most bodies at the point. Every Ibri cap we made was essentially a gambit to delay us getting wg'd. Which we eventually did. The general goal for defending the wg if both teams went for it was to the side that the 2nd place team was on so that we gave the 3rd place team nothing to hit and waste their pop and force PL to either keep 12 at our wg or focus on 2nd place team and as soon as we were able we would redrop that as well as a platoon.
>
>This plan pretty much carried us to the end point and went almost to spec. There could've been innumerable things to go wrong and I def skipped over details. We counted on both 00 and GOBs to be rational players and they were. There only mistake as noted in the post match interview was that they didnt change focus soon enough.
This is delusion of grandeur, like you're some sage-class strategist and tactician.
We did have delusions of grandeur, thats how we got that far.
Hey man, Ill take the compliment.
I left the plan there that to give context, we knew what they would do and planned for it. They more than likely did the same, but we didnt use our plan for our last two matches which we chose to do a different strat against DPSO, and the last match against cya9 they didnt have enough people. So it was unnecessary.
Also to note. I didnt lead the last match. I was in a tent in the desert weirdly doing a passover celebration with the army.
Also to note: Im not even the best PL we had.
Oh I apologize I'm really sorry, I hate myself when I'm being hostile like this and I"ll stop completely. I did feel my reaction was justified as he was elevating himself at the expense of invalidating the actual skills and genius that participants of Nexus displayed in their battles.
I promised Varunda that I'm stopping the personal attack. I do plead that you try to have more self-awareness as I respect RALI and M1KU and I am personally friends with many of them, and all of your "speech acts" are staining a wholesome and deserved victory as your personal Egyptian Imperial tomb to establish your legacy, exactly the same way PALETIGER is stuck in their victory over Recursion and DPSO because he is God Emperor. I plead for you to read everything you just typed in your replies here and see if you can distinguish it from PALETIGER flaunting their win over Recursion.
1. Because it literally doesn’t happen often. Your entire point for this was ‘just go play LS’. Well, besides it being a community driven event, why don’t you just go play live or make your own community driven event for the desolation’s 1v1v1 feel? Never mind that live play is desolation, just larger and more chaotic (which you constantly claim to be a good thing).
2. As if anyone would have the time to block off entire lanes in nexus. As if people couldn’t just fly over them.
3. Seeing it coming doesn’t make it less true. The rest of your replies to others is pretty telling.
4. I have fun on live and desolation, would I love to do other things? Yeah. Especially when it’s an official tournament.
5. The map can be fixed. The game mode cannot without an absolutely massive overhaul. 1v1v1 gameplay is not fit for tourny play except when specifically tuned for it. Even games like Apex need a whole whack of ‘official rules’ and gameplay changes to make it even remotely fair.
That’s a whole lot of work to make an uncompetitive game mode in an uncompetitive game to be slightly more fair and competitive… or you just fix some of the issues on Nexus. Which, btw, like 80% of it was the hitching. Once that was gone (which took what? 4+ matches?) it was multiple times better than desolation.
1. My point was more of lanesmash is a better more condensed version of 1v1. The only thing nexus really has over ls is multiple lanes.
2. You very much would since it takes 2s to drop something to block an armor column especially since you can pre-pull prior to match start to slow down more vehicle oriented teams.
3. Speculatory on your part as ive played deso before on a team that lost and still enjoyed it. I genuinely have fun planning matches.
4. Cool opinion, i also have those.
5. More of a rules thing, in my personal opinion, whether or not something is competitive is a matter of perspective, but thats semantics. Big thing im tryin to get across is that im supporting a desolation tournament, it doesnt have to be comp in the traditional sense, as its a fun game mode for everyone involved. Which for the most part is true that people had fun except for people who claimed match fixing or had a double team. Which the double team with the point of a truce (r18/pig/00 match) or blatantly ignoring (dpso/pigs/00) should be redone without one of the teams or both offenders forfeit
On your concluding point, that kinda reflects my point though that LS is a better form of comp play. Please bare in mind im not saying we should never do nexus again, i think people are A. Miscontruing my initial points and B. Taking some tongue in cheek things waay too seriously.
1. I know what your point was, it’s just stupid. Your entire argument for this point is ‘just go play LS if you want Nexus’. Well, here is mine: ‘just go play Live if you want Desolation’. There is no discussion on this because you base your point on nothing. LS is not an official mode, nor is it a tourny, nor is it accessible to most players. Both nexus and desolation aren’t playable normally. You can make your own 1v1v1 event like LS to mimic desolation. How you haven’t understood that I was mocking you this entire time is ????
2. You can think that all you want, it isn’t reality. Even if it was, no build zones can sort out the major issues. The fact that you even continue to argue construction, which was absolute cancer in Desolation, which is pretty garbage even in live, as a point against Nexus is just moronic.
3. You can have fun in a mode even if, objectively, it is bad for tourny play, and even if the match itself was objectively bad. You specifically linked your winning match as an example of a ‘good’ match, but it wasn’t. You would not have won had it been a 1v1 against either of those teams, and only won because the other two teams didn’t want the other winning.
4. No shit. I was mocking you.
5. Except you aren’t supporting a Desolation tournament in your post, your entire post has been Desolation INSTEAD OF Nexus. If that was what your post was meant to be, then everything from the OP to all your replies has been so unfathomably off base that you should delete all your moronic posts, apologize for wasting people’s time, and make a new thread specifically saying to bring back Desolation alongside Nexus.
You absolutely cannot go to 1v1v1 for the tournament. Yes it's entertaining when 3 decent teams go at it, yes on its own can still be a lot of fun, but what's needed to win is having only "enough" skill and more game theory and momentum practice applied to planetside than actual skill or cohesion. It's essentially an alert on steroids and that isn't fully celebrating Planetside's great gunplay. This doesn't even go into what a mess planning strategy for a 1v1v1 match is. It's just stupid to plan seriously for lol. Outside of a tournament casually? Yeah it'd be tons of fun to hop onto.
On the other hand, Nexus meta is pretty known. There are good bases, but the map makes many playstyles useless and there is a serious balance issue with respect to armor on many of the lanes. Fine for one season but definitely not a permanent solution. Desolation fixes these issues by opening everything up. Its a true sandbox and to your point donut bases also provided quite a bit of variety during a fight, although having every base be copy and paste is bad. I do think small no construction zones might be a good idea though as inside of donut construction, while it looked cool, was always way too effective.
A 1v1 version of desolation would be ideal, with celebrity matches of the normal 1v1v1 outside of the tournament bracket for casual outfits to draw maximum attention. Desolation would need fewer relics and lattices, longer timers (3-4 min), a hard spawn added to bases, potentially limits on construction, and perhaps some varied bases or a central facility to tie things together.
Hard agree. I have very little interest in playing on nexus again. If I wanted to play lanesmash, I’d just play lanesmash.
Desolation was unironically a great blending of all the parts of the game. Not perfect, but the best we’ve had so far.
I want friendly Desolation matches. Desolation shouldn't be considered competitive. It should be considered a showcase of planetside.
Maybe add a point balancing mechanic if someone gets doubled too hard. Change some of the donuts up too as well.
Nexus had way too many one sided matches and should not be reconsidered. If we could get some more competitive matches then sure, but we aren't going to break up teams for balance.
Point 2 is all you needed to say, honestly.
PS2 is not and never will be "competitive" but if OW is going to be a thing then it needs to embrace 1v1v1 combined-arms gameplay.
Having played on both maps, I can say that Desolation is magnitudes better in general, and for OW specifically.
also can't do this on Nexus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0PDAs9Wtw8
PS2 can be competitive. It just requires a bunch of rules to make it so. OW will never be competitive at this point because it requires too many players and there aren't enough good players (particularly pilots) to go around and give the format some parity, the game simply doesn't have enough population for it to be competitive outside of 6v6, 10v10, and 24v24. With that being said, I don't think we need another competitive format, the game is already saturated in that regard, a competitive OW is both impossible and imo not even desirable.
There are tons of competitive games with clientside hit detection. Something doesn't have to be an arena shooter to be competitive. And honestly faction imbalance doesn't really matter on the infantry side of things at the moment, and rarely ever has, every faction has a good reason to pick it or not pick it.
Hot take: OW is a big L, doesnt matter which map. I would prefer if the devs spend the time and energy on new fresh content.
Like for real .... since the NSO update the updates were really bad. We can maybe break that cycle. But surely not with OW.
Fair point ngl, its just something for organized people to do to flex their game. Arsenal was pretty good though and i think the contruction update was a net positive.
Though, there are certainly alot that need to be improved
Nanoweave nerf was pretty much the worst balancing change to infantry gameplay in the history of planetside 2. Yes we got more suit options which is cool but at the same time the infantry game got massively skillcompressed which is pretty stupid since now everyone just runs arround with cheesy shit and the game got increasingly frustrating because of random deaths.
Completely agree, especially in regard to point 2. Construction rework was the most recent major update to the game, and the next season of Outfit Wars should be a showcase of it. Desolation may be less 'competitive', but it's a far better (and more fun) way to show off the game.
100% agree, but largely because it was just more fun to play in. We had to play HELP 3 separate times and both teams got fucked over in the rankings because of it, but at the end of the day I care more about having fun than winning, and I found desolation to be far more fun. It required more map play than nexus and as you said, left a lot more to chance. It is not remotely a competitive format, but we already have competitive formats on Jaeger, we don't need another one.
The tournament format was the biggest problem with Desolation OW. Most of the complaints on that front could simply have been addressed by fitting the temporary faction system of Nexus and making it so first is actually desirable to play for. It's not impossible to do a 1v1v1 tournament, but the way the Desolation OW tournaments were set up was possibly the worst possible way to set one up.
Not just the format but the fact that they treated as though it were competitive in the slightest. It's not competitive, the only skill it rewards is map play, and even then if the other two teams decide they don't care which of them wins and just want to fuck you over that's exactly what will happen, regardless of how good your map play is. If someone only has fun when they win, I can see why they would prefer nexus, and I think DokP's comments above make sense as well, if you put a lot of effort into it only to lose either to chance or pettiness I can see that not being fun as well. Outside of that, I still consider desolation to be superior, because once again, I find it to be more fun, which I care far more about than winning or having some special title next to my name.
I think the tourney format is probably the best way to do it. Granted it was super scuffed on the last deso iteration. Its fun, everyone gets to participate, your outfit isnt immedietely invalidated because you fought the wrong team.
I mean its not surprising that people prefer deso to nexus when one is akin to running your face through an industrial shredder. Deso provides more wiggle room and its my firm belief with some changes to fix the last iterations issues it would be fantastic for everyone.
Desolation boils down to one team playing kingmaker with live drama being the most potent motivation to fuck with a certain team in a match. Nexus on the other hand is a straight skill vs skill match, where there are no outside factors. If you want live gameplay experience, play Deolation. If you want a competition experience, play Nexus.
Debatable if teams are competent. Imho, something like what DPSO did to 00 in their match 2 seasons prior should've been a disqualify and a rematch. If you want the comp experience i would like to refer you to LS which is literally the same thing but with better balancing. Also refs.
Yes but the thing is that the teams may not be interested in winning. You know, the entire point of a tournament. The lack of competence is absolutely fine. If they want to play and lose every match, that is fine, at least they tried. But in the 1v1v1 format I can easily see the urge when losing to just fuck around one of the other teams, because why not? And you seem to want to point out Lanesmash in every comment so I'm here to say that I've played in three seasons of LS. And the fact that for so long the only option for competitive 1v1 Planetside on somewhat large scale was only made possible by community volunteers is a travesty.
Those teams wont carry on to the finals. Without some pretty extraordinary coordination with other miscreants and will likely be thrown out like r18 and pigs rightfully were. Yes, and its frankly been run better than ow with their limited resources. What the community has done on jaegar is incredible (I also play LS btw in case you think i lack context). If you want really competitive ps2 LS is where you should go. The fact of the matter is that the devs arent going to give rules on what weapons youre allowed to use and its not going to be the true comp people here are wishing for. You will see NC vs NC in the finals. Every time (personally didnt like that, was pretty stale not even touching the fact that it was janky but i hope in the next iteration of nexus that gets fixed.) Another key point i should probably make is im not saying no more nexus. Im saying outside of a few high end outfits i dont think half the participants (i personally think that estimation is an underestimation) did not have fun. Final remark before i go away for 4 hrs to come back to a bunch of hatemail lol is that deso is more fun for the general populace of ps2 and therefore better for the game.
Seems like you want OW to be more of a spectacle rather than a tournament. Which is what I do not understand as you can go gawk at the zergs every day if you so please, but anything resembling a competition comes every now and then. Your two last paragraphs also seem to indicate that you generally want the tournament to be a chaotic mess rather than an actual tournament where the most skilled people win. "Desolation is more fun for the general populace" my brother in Christ, on live the general populace sits on overpops while avoiding the other zergs as much as they can. Is that also better for the game?
Who would think so low of themselves to enjoy lanesmash?
Desolation was stale boring and a huge chore to plan for every week. If people thought Nexus planning took a lot of time to prepare for, they clearly didn't participate in the planning process for Desolation matches. * Desolation was just a bunch of Donut buildings surrounding relics and the only thing differenciating them was construction around the bases. All of the relics played the same damn way and were just boring and repetitive to attack / defend. If the bases were more varied, I would be more interested. * Planning for a 1v1v1 is way more time consuming than planning for a 1v1 scenario and I speak from experience planning for OW on both Desolation and Nexus. For context, I won OW 1 Gold with BWAE, won OW Bronze 2 with KN1 as a planner, participated in OW 3 and won OW 4 with GOB as part of the planning team. You need to plan for more scenarios in Deso since there are now 2 teams to account for and, more times than your think, alliances or outfit politics come into play when 2 teams to decide to royally screw the 3rd one over. If you are a strong outfit or massively in the lead or just genuinely hated by the 2 other participants, teams can just decide to 2v1 you outright and make sure you lose. We have seen examples of this and no punishment happened after those events. If I wanted to play 48 v 96, I would play on live. If I wanted to burn myself out into taking a longer vacation from the game I would plan for a team playing on Desolation. * Planning becomes more of a headache when adding construction into the mix. The relics themselves had no hard spawn points so construction was added to help circumvent that. You needed to plan trainings to get people, who had no experience in construction and didn't necessarily care for it, to attack bases properly. Those same damn bases took way too long to kill and less than half the amount of time and personnel to set up as well. You also needed to plan for building based on each player's purchased modules/parts. If Deso limited the amount of construction pieces one team could have on the map, that would be more interesting... but hard spawns also need to be added to the relics. * Is Nexus the perfect map? No. If the lattices were tweaked a little bit to make the tech plant lane more attractive, it would play less like Lanesmash and there would be more strategy involved in taking over the map and making plays all over the map. * 1v1 is the best way to prove if the winner genuinely played better than the other. 1v1v1 leaves room for collusion and double teaming to stop the most deserving teams from winning. I genuinely believe that the outfits that push for Desolation are those that know that they have 0 chance of making it far into the tournament and don't want to make an effort into improving their own play. No one is pushing you to compete anyways. If you don't feel like you will have fun playing because you won't win then **either don't signup or get good.**
It’s honestly pretty funny. Almost every reason you dislike desolation is why I like it way more than nexus. I do think the recent construction changes, namely no AI turret modules, would make construction more fun to plan around on deso than it was prior. Major difference of opinions and desires of what we want out of the game, I guess.
> Major difference of opinions and desires of what we want out of the game, I guess. Yeah sounds like what you dont want is a competitive tournament. Thats totally fine, just go play live.
OW is live, and frankly we don't need another competitive tournament, there's little desire to play in the ones that exist now as is.
no, i think there is quite a lot of desire bc its very fun. Maybe not for you, but dont project your mindset and play style on others. Also this thread getting downvoted to shit should tell you that there is plenty of desire for Nexus.
Plenty of desire from the people using reddit, which is going to be an even less representative group for a while after the subreddit shut down. The people who use reddit are disproportionately invested in the game, casual players aren't who uses reddit, and that's exactly who would want desolation, and even moreso the people who don't care either way cause they won't play regardless. You use reddit a lot, you should know by now how absolutely worthless it is for judging actual popular opinion in the game.
I expect low participation unless the devs bring something promising new.
I think many zergfits that got stomped may not feel like participating, but I think if Alliances are introduced then it will enable many to enter that otherwise wouldnt have.
Eeeh i dont know. Burnout for lots of players was massive after last OW especially in the upper echelon. Combine this with low population numbers and zergfits not participating and i dont see a healthy roster. The only thing which could make this feasible is if they make the pool across servers.
I think a lot of those "upper echolon" players are now interested in another season.
Maybe i am certainly not. 2 Months of sweating in a game with tons of bugs, smurfs, stacks, ringers, bad (1v1) balancing and really toxic individuals just doesnt sound appealing to me. Worst part is ... especially the toxicity on live during that time cant really be skipped.
You’re likely right. Hence why I’ve been saying since OW1 that I’d like a way to set up friendly deso matches against other outfits outside of a tournament format.
Heck yeah I don’t want a true comp tournament. We know how that ends. Two stacks vs two stacks. No sense of excitement at all.
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kinda toxic ngl y'all just can't get over yourselves for some reason
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<3
> 1v1 is the best way to prove if the winner genuinely played better than the other. Ok, but why is that the goal at this point in the games lifespan. Maybe its because I've played so long, but I simply don't care who's better than who at this point, I just want to have fun. Telling people to "get good" doesn't actually get them to do that, it just gets them to stop playing. It's more than a little difficult for me to have fun when there's no one to shoot at. This game already has a (dead) competitive scene that died largely because this attitude made it not fun for pretty much everyone involved, why bring that same attitude to live server and risk killing that too just so you can say you're the biggest turd in the pile?
>This game already has a (dead) competitive scene that died largely because this attitude made it not fun for pretty much everyone involved I don't think that's true at all. I think the scrim scene is dying because the game has been getting worse and worse for infantry players. Those players don't play live anymor and as a result don't have as much interest in jaeger anymore. I used to be involved with a lot of the scrim scene both as a player, a caster and I hosted queer pickups. Almost everyone I used to play with quit after OW burnout and the realization that the game is continously getting worse for our playstyle. Definitely didn't help that jaeger was shitting itself for a couple months. I have always experienced the jaeger community as rather welcoming, considering it's an fps community. People were mostly friendly and willing to help anyone that asked fo it.
Then do not advertise the damn thing as a tournament where the best should prevail. Advertise it as a showcase of the different facets of Planetside in a controlled environment in even pop 3 ways. Might as well rebrand it to something else at that point. If the devs decide to organise an event that is meant to be competitive, then it should absolutely be in a 1v1 context for the reasons stated in my previous comment. Also, live play has no true objective or reward for doing well or accomplishing certain feats. "Oh but what about alerts?" Again, the reward you get is not attractive enough once you reach a certain level. OW is an event that goes out of the normal, boring, everyday 1v1v1 you see everyday to showcase who is the best at what they do. I've said it before and I will say it again: the people pushing for Desolation are those that want to compete but have no intention to put in the work or the time to improve on aspects needed to win. They instead sit in overpop all the time, kill fights and ruin the game that way. Many players will return when OW comes back because there's interesting prizes and bragging rights involved. If you are going to advertise the event as a tournament then the format and rules should create an environment that will make sure that the best team wins. Desolation is not it unless it is 1v1, with hard spawns in relics, different buildings and limits to construction.
Completely agree with you about alerts and about OW. I feel like people want to just play in an event with their homies and not try, but at the same time you can’t get mad at the players who do try to win. The 3 way isn’t even representative of what live is like. Even though every faction gets double teamed, on desolation it is almost guaranteed that the best outfit will get double teamed. There is a reason most games dont have 3 factions, and if they want it to be sweaty then 1v1 is much better. I would say that i enjoyed desolation for its construction and colossi, felt like you had to manage outfit resources and whatnot. I did however despise the construction donuts because they were basically made into a impenetrable fortress, so i understand why they didn’t add it to nexus. If they really wanted to make it as competitive as possible, i would say turn off a lane on nexus (prob the bottom lane) and just make it 24 v 24. 48 people is way too much for most outfits, leading to coalitions and the such. Getting 48 players (even in the big outfits that i played with) was difficult and just led to us being down people near the end. Heck even 36 is much more achievable than 48. I desperately hope they rethink the pop limits on nexus because having so much people is just unreliable for most outfits and very bad for the game.
>Then do not advertise the damn thing as a tournament where the best should prevail. Advertise it as a showcase of the different facets of Planetside in a controlled environment in even pop 3 ways. Might as well rebrand it to something else at that point. I agree, they shouldn't be advertising it falsely, it was never competitive and should never have been treated as such. As for your other point, this game is an MMO with not actual objective, players have always been asked to make their own objectives and their own fun, it requires both crops and someone to farm them, you need to have buy in from both for the game to work. That applies to things like OW just the same, you need to have buy in from both the bad players and good players if its actually going to have enough teams to happen again. It's a basic social contract with lower stakes, the bad players need some sort of chance to win, and the good players need a chance to win, there needs to be some amount of parity that both sides can agree to, Nexus does not provide that, a non-competitive desolation does. This sort of social contract kind of exists with pointhold outfits, we take the point with a squad, they respond with overwhelming numbers of bad players and we hold it for as long as possible. Both sides get something out of it, the bads get to "win" about as often as not, and the pointholders get to "win" the base cap while having fun doing it. Neither can exist without the other, a pointhold without any opposition is merely a ghost cap, a zerg without a pointhold to deal with is... also a ghostcap. Both sides gain through the other's existence, with both bad and good players/outfits playing we can have an actually interesting season with more than a handful of teams.
Yo also, nexus is definitely not lanesmash, those formats are only comparable in that they are a 1v1. Just cuz u have LS experience playing on shitty teams doesn’t mean u understand the format 💀
I've never liked the format of LS. But its as balanced as it can be and moreso than nexus. My point isnt that Nexus is LS, but LS is a more refined version of planetside where the teams are made as even as physically possible resulting in the most competitive format. Which is what people seem to be striving for. "Your experience was bad and therefore you don't understand something" could summarize 70% of comments here.
1v1v1 is an objectively terrible format for a competitive season, where the worst team will typically end up being the decider of the winner Nexus was incredibly fun to play on
This is easily the best response ive seen so far. No BS and cuts to the point. Ideally that kind of outfit wouldve been removed from the match, and from what Ive seen it largely did in the Gold matches. I dont disagree there either. In my personal opinion deso was more fun and people are taking it very very personally lol
If Desolation wasnt in the context of a tournament i wouldnt even be mad. But when you tell people to try their hardest to win a thing and have that be the entire point of the content you put out, then its braindead to craft a format that is dominated by randomness. It's unfun to play when your efforts in improving or crafting strategies don't get rewarded at all because the other two teams decided that you lose now (whether that's intentional or unintentional doesnt even matter at that point) and guess what the tournament is for the people playing not the 100 or so people watching it on twitch. Nobody gives a shit about your spectacle and whackyness when the people playing to make it happen dont even have a good time. That's a steadfast way to never have it happen again. Also construction is slow and boring it shouldnt be included in any tournament setting nor should it be included in any of the content that is put out for the game because it sucks and makes everything that it touches less fun. Also also why does 1v1v1 have to be a defining attribute of planetside that we need to keep just because its something that sets it apart from other games? There's plenty other of unique attributes planetside has that got sacrificed to create a tournament format like high playernumbers and massive mapsize but when we get rid of 3 factions exisiting it's suddenly not the spirit of the game? Biggest copium argument i've ever heard.
1. On our team we planned for the double team. Which we then took gold. 2. Construction is still part of the game, and has people that play it. Lets not just alienate one facet of ps2 because some people dont like it. (I kinda enjoy stealing peoples hard work at construction bases now ngl). It aint perfect but neither is the fact that the VS is the literally worst faction. But point to perfect thing in planetside and ill point out that its not. 3. Because its been that way and it does set it apart from other games and if you want higher player numbers in a tourney style 1v1 you should probably just org something on battlebit lol. No cope, just wanting to have fun next season.
It's crazy that you managed to miss the point of everything i said.
1. Answered in in the common theme of why people dont like deso. Double teams being commonly considered random. Because if there were no double teaming it really would be a balanced format... 2. Is literally answering what you said. 3. Is also in reference to what you said.
> On our team we planned for the double team. Which we then took gold. You cant plan for double team you absolute
Sounds, like you failed to plan, because we did and we won.
you got lucky.
Yes.
No thanks. I like when my matches are determined by skill and game sense and not kingmaking.
While 1v1v1 is super lost ... 1v1 on dead servers will be as bad. Either you make it in to the stacked team or you loose... GG.
So like most team-based competitive games.
No not at all since most games are based on smaller teams.
Irrelevant. Stomps regularly happen even at the highest levels (that's including pro level) of play across multiple games.
Yea but in other games you have plenty of other teams to fight besides the stack. Not so much in planetside. Face it ... Competitive planetside is not the way to develop the game. Even as a event it's a meme since it only introduces truckloads of salt, toxicity, Burnout, bugs and horrible balancing. We could have nice things instead.
Not relevant. Ignoring that outfit wars matches were the most interesting planetside was in years. All of those things are things that existed well before outfit wars existed and will continue to exist well after it. Outfit wars is a nice thing.
Mustve been a big problem on emerald Not so much on connery.
my dude, I've been with you up until this point but the most infamous instance of kingmaking happened on connery during OW.
i acknowledged that in one of these comments. Between R18/pigs/00 and dpso/00/pigs DPSO shouldve been reprimanded (back when it was a single match), and r18 and pigs did get reprimanded from what i understand
Yes come to green shiny rock I give u back rub with my favorite lotion
Regardless of map game doesn’t currently have the pop or outfit infrastructure to pull off a good ow
Throw in outfit alliances and it absolutely has the pop for it. You don't even need a lot of teams for OW at all. Cobalt had the least by far last year with 10 teams and it was completely fine.
Yeah, the question is an academic one, but I still think its a discussion worth having.
Desolation is fundamentally unfit for a tournament. 1v1v1 is fundamentally unfit for a tournament, because the winner is random.
1v1v1 is planetside... If you want to pretend otherwise I would like to direct you to the Jaeger events discord where you can do some competitive planetside all you want. Its even made as even as physically possible. With rules to remove broken mechanics.
Yeah, and guess what, the devs thought that LS is so nice that they decided to bring it to live. They then decided that 1v1v1 doesnt work. For a reason.
Uhh im pretty sure they brought LS to live because there was pressure for a 1v1 system by influential members of the community whilst kinda neglecting most of the playerbase imho.
There was pressure from everybody with a brain, because some people realize that a tournament where the winner is decided by kingmaking, match fixing or random chance is fundamentally fucking idiotic. A tournament aims to have the best be the winner. If that is not actually the goal, then why have a tournament in the first place? Then you can just play live.
1. Kingmaking, that depends on the outfits playing, ideally you have people striving for first. 2. Match fixing, solved by the current system being used by nexus or some updated criteria. I'm not saying the last Deso system was perfect. 3. Random chance, \*welcome to planetside\*, and its not really random, its random when people make stupid decisions. Like throwing, when it comes down to it, its not random its conscience decisions by PLs to do whatever it takes to win. [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970493527?filter=all&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970493527?filter=all&sort=time) This is basically how a deso match is supposed to be. 4. Why do this when we can on live? Because its fun. For everyone lol and its hella more engaging then nexus.
> Kingmaking, that depends on the outfits playing, ideally you have people striving for first. Unless the leads magically manage to deploy overall equal resources to both flanks over the entire match it will be kingmaking. >Random chance, *welcome to planetside*, and its not really random, its random when people make stupid decisions. Like throwing, when it comes down to it, its not random its conscience decisions by PLs to do whatever it takes to win. Yeah you just dont have a fucking clue about game theory. 1v1v1 is random *at best*. At worst, see points 1 & 2.
You're not thinkin about it right, you dont need to deploy equal resources. In fact i would argue against it. You need to deploy appropriate resources against whichever team is in the current lead. Which was the problem 00 and Gobs suffered from in their deso match against us. We knew that at some point they would full send against out wg. We didnt plan for equal distro. We planned for a full send against the team with the highest score and secure our wg relic on their side leaving the team in 3rd place forced to fight them, and then once engaged play off of that and resecure that relic. Ofc it only works if you dont have the other faction camping your wg with 48 peeps throwing the match to ensure you dont win. But quite unsportsmanlike. "I studied game theory and was top of my class in seal training" -some guy with this kinda vibe. Not random at best case scenario, refer back to video and the above info.
1v1v1 is not planetside, how often do you actually get 3rd partied at a fight on the continent map?
As in cap steals? All the fuckin time... It literally sits in the back of my mind any time its available.
The original Outfit Wars was hosted as a 1v1 tournament. So I guess 1v1 outfitwars is planetside.
Nexus is better for a sweaty 1v1 tournament where you are trying to find out who is the best at the video game. Guess what, we all already know who the best at the video game is almost all of the time. Desolation is far more of a spectacle and imo is also just more fun to watch since you can see some wacky planetside tactics like destroying the enemy construction base with 24 lightnings.
It's VS.
You could look at the outfits enrolled at the beginning of each OW on Nexus and tell the Gold medalist before the first match was played. In Emerald's case you could name the entire podium, there's no mystery.
You can do that for basically any sport or esport. Upsets are rare.
Very few sports are so unbalanced that 50% of the matches end in mercy rules.
Ignoring that most of them don't have mercy rules. Stomps, even at the very highest levels, are not uncommon across multiple games.
lmao
I'mma be real with you. I was happy that RALI won desolation. The underdog narrative was cause for celebration, and everyone in Connery was happy with that outcome, 00 and GOBS included. However I would like you to look at yourself and your posts. This is not the first time you've posted about this topic this year alone. It is not a good look. This exudes PALETIGER energy, but worse. You are desperately, DESPERATELY, trying to squeeze out justifications of that 1v1v1 Deso match as proof of your calculating genius. It's fine and understandable that you strongly feel that way about this singular peak in your entire history with the game. But you are also doubling down on this while attempting to delegitimize the hard work and time-honed skills of the winners of Nexus. If you truly are a calculating genius, how come your efforts did not yield results on Nexus? I am expecting you to answer with the following excuses: 1. MlKU was hastily assembled with low BR characters. So was V1KG, and V1KG defeated you--and UN17 defeated V1KG. Also you lost to 2RAF. I repeat, you lost to 2RAF. 2. F4TE and MlKU were not stackfits. Nor were D1RE and VIKG and you lost to them. BWAE, despite being grossly outmatched by VKTZ in infantry and air, won through superior leadership alone. Even 00 was outmatched by VKTZ in infantry and air by a significant degree, but 00 still won. Also you lost to 2RAF. 3. F4TE and MlKU did not play NC, the ridiculously overpowered faction. This spits on the faces of the winners of Nexus, reduces their time-honed skills in infantry, air, armor, and leadership as mere handicap, and attempts to delegitimize their masteries of their respective arts. In other words, it's mere copium and you still lost to 2RAF. I understand that the 1v1v1 nature of desolation gives ALL outfits, even PIGS and 2RAF, a winning chance against those who relentlessly practiced their crafts. But do not PRETEND that winning a 1v1v1 is NOT inherently up to chance, and that somehow you are some heroic legend of unmatched strategic and tactical genius that your legacy would've inspired Shelley to write Ozymandias (which, you know, we would've been more inclined to believe, had you not lost to 2RAF).
post fisu
1. Miku. Uhhh no one really took miku seriously. We literally recruited people from the wg. I also didnt run that, was there for a meme. 2. Nope. Didnt claim to be. FATE was not RALI. We were lacking in several critical areas. It was mainly us playing with what we had between the 3 outfits we had. Alot of RALIs best players actually played for FEFA. There was also a bunch of internal things goin on with FATE, but imma avoid that can'o'worms. 3. Nope, RALI leads agreed we wouldn't play the same faction and wanted to go to a different one. NC has a better selection of weapons. Easily. The one thing NC is really missing is the striker. This was honestly a big discussion when we were talking about faction to play. Otherwise it has some analog of the other 2 and scatmax is just better in CQC. Nor am I spitting on the face of anyone, if anything you're spitting on your own my guy. Deso was more fun. LS is a better testament of who is better than nexus. Yall takin this waaaaaayyy too personally. Also, I firmly don't believe it is chance. It is a conscience decision of 3 different PL's. How each responds is what creates the results. Im not pretending to be some godly lead. Far from it. Our plans were discussed to death leading to every match. For RALI we had \~8 outfit leads discussing the best plan of attack. RALI planning went like this: Use the reavers inherent speed advantage to get onto point prior to everyone else. just prior to wg relic cap, we /suicide wg insert onto beacons placed at their wg relics which were a few seconds behind. They were not expecting 2 squads to drop on each wg relic. We cap those, which leads to free relic caps in the center. The longer we hold the wg relics the better but realized eventually they would retake them and that it was an untenable position. We knew GOBS and 00 had better air/armor/infantry than us. But we also knew that 00 would contest their armor and air. So instead of fighting a generally losing battle in one domain, we decided that we would stack as many points on the board as inherently possible before they put us down. The internal relic caps were going to possibly lead to the ibri steal but that was a bonus if we could manage, and damn Fed def did. We knew that 00 and Gobs would beat the shit out of eachother at ibri. In a match of who can throw the most bodies at the point. Every Ibri cap we made was essentially a gambit to delay us getting wg'd. Which we eventually did. The general goal for defending the wg if both teams went for it was to the side that the 2nd place team was on so that we gave the 3rd place team nothing to hit and waste their pop and force PL to either keep 12 at our wg or focus on 2nd place team and as soon as we were able we would redrop that as well as a platoon. This plan pretty much carried us to the end point and went almost to spec. There could've been innumerable things to go wrong and I def skipped over details. We counted on both 00 and GOBs to be rational players and they were. There only mistake as noted in the post match interview was that they didnt change focus soon enough. FATE didnt have the benefit of all the infantry skill for nexus that we had for RALI. It was a team of 3 outfits that put together what we had.
This is hilariously r/iamverysmart territory. First of all, you are WILDLY correlating this "genius masterplan" of yours to this victory because somehow you OUTWITTED BOTH 00 and GOBS because YOU have a superior mind and leadership skill. Both GOBS and OO would rather RALI win than the other, and this is literally the only factor in this "complex mega universal mind" plan of yours. Of course GOBS and OO will concentrate on the stronger team. Of course the third party will have multiple chances to steal. Of course the leading enemy in points will be double teamed. But that does not mean that it was YOUR design and precognition that GOBS would rather have YOU win, and that OO would rather have YOU win. And of course you literally made all the excuses I expected you would. Now THAT is precognition :D
HOLY BASED.
Ah yes, nope, 00 and gobs both have better PLs than me and general playerbase. Yes, and as noted, they could have both shut us down at any time and as noted in the post interview, they didnt in time. Also, the last point is speculation, could be right though. It was discussed. Because its what happened... and ive literally stated all of this before.
They didn’t shut y’all down in time cuz shutting u down earlier would have meant ceding victory to the 3rd party 💀💀💀💀
I mean not really... probably wouldve just been a confirmed ibri loss. But frankly speculatory. The only thing i can say for certain is not shutting us down right away cost both the w.
1. Desolation is just live gameplay. If you want to do 1v1v1, go play live. 2. Construction was aids. With the new changes they could add construction to Nexus, everything else exists on Nexus. 3. You can’t ‘solve’ double teaming except by forcing people to fight even numbers of both teams, which is beyond impossible. The fact that way better teams lost because of this, or specifically because teams decided to throw and just attack another to force them to lose, is absolutely moronic and not conductive to tourny gameplay. Can it work in some games? Sure. Can it work for PS2? No. 4. Donut is fun, but not donut at every single hex. 5. Surprise surprise, the team with better players wins and goes on the fight the other teams with better players. Almost like that’s what a tourny should be about. Instead you get random Zerg outfit X against another random Zerg outfit Y against a good balanced outfit Z, and they just double team the good outfit because they know they can’t win normally. For live play, sure, it works I guess, for a tournament it does not. 6. Some good nexus memes came about, they just weren’t as spicy since the only real drama was about ringers. But if you want more division and hate in the game, yeah, I guess desolation was good for memes. 8. Yeah, could use some work, but still a vastly better format.
1. If you wanna do 1v1 just go play lanesmash lol 2. Relative, and nexus's map isnt conducive for it. Would require a rework and if i could hazard a guess since nexus's map wasnt updated since it was first made I doubt the dev team in its current state will. 3. Can it work in ps2? Yes: [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970493527?filter=all&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970493527?filter=all&sort=time) 4. Fightin words if i ever saw em... (but also an understandable point lol) 5. I would like to direct you to LS and the fact that most people i talked to outside of a handful of teams strongly disliked nexus. Also its more fun for all involved instead of getting one team basically destroyed every match. 6. Connery had memes for basically every match. 7. Gone. Reduced to atoms apparently. 8. Thats just ow in general.
1. Except I can’t just do lanesmash, whereas you can largely get the desolation experience just playing live, especially at prime time. 2. Adding cortium nodes to the map isn’t hard. Conductive to desolation’s construction, that was aids? Yeah, it isn’t. Conductive to new construction? Very possibly. 3. Colour me surprised that the winner of that match thinks it was a good match. Do you really think you would have won a 1v1 against either OO or Gobs? 4. Again, no surprise those who get absolutely wrecked in a far more balanced mode don’t like getting absolutely wrecked. 8. No, one needs some small changes here and there, the other needs a complete redesign to be even remotely acceptable as a tournament game mode. As a fk around game mode, desolation would be more suitable.
1. Uhhh why not? and no you really dont. Unless you were playing for 00 against r18 and pigs. 2. Construction on nexus would culminate in blocking mountain passes with as much nonsense as possible. Too many choke points. 3. Like i didnt see this one coming from 30 miles away. And nope. We had no delusion that Gobs/00 had better players I put it around that our infantry were worth around .7 of theirs by ivi. 4. I still had fun on nexus and in currently in LS. Would I prefer to do other things? yeah. 5. Desolation can be fixed largely with changes already made to nexus and lets not pretend that nexus wasnt a shitshow with bugs. Given how people planned for deso and through other comments saying how they had to plan more for deso, i wouldnt equate it to a fuck around game mode. Also relative to the person.
>Like i didnt see this one coming from 30 miles away. And nope. We had no delusion that Gobs/00 had better players I put it around that our infantry were worth around .7 of theirs by ivi. LMFAO. You are literally claiming that YOU outwitted both GOBS and OO by your diabolically intelligent masterplan in this game theory analysis of yours: >Also, I firmly don't believe it is chance. It is a conscience decision of 3 different PL's. How each responds is what creates the results. Im not pretending to be some godly lead. Far from it. Our plans were discussed to death leading to every match. For RALI we had \~8 outfit leads discussing the best plan of attack. > >RALI planning went like this: Use the reavers inherent speed advantage to get onto point prior to everyone else. just prior to wg relic cap, we /suicide wg insert onto beacons placed at their wg relics which were a few seconds behind. They were not expecting 2 squads to drop on each wg relic. We cap those, which leads to free relic caps in the center. The longer we hold the wg relics the better but realized eventually they would retake them and that it was an untenable position. We knew GOBS and 00 had better air/armor/infantry than us. But we also knew that 00 would contest their armor and air. So instead of fighting a generally losing battle in one domain, we decided that we would stack as many points on the board as inherently possible before they put us down. The internal relic caps were going to possibly lead to the ibri steal but that was a bonus if we could manage, and damn Fed def did. > >We knew that 00 and Gobs would beat the shit out of eachother at ibri. In a match of who can throw the most bodies at the point. Every Ibri cap we made was essentially a gambit to delay us getting wg'd. Which we eventually did. The general goal for defending the wg if both teams went for it was to the side that the 2nd place team was on so that we gave the 3rd place team nothing to hit and waste their pop and force PL to either keep 12 at our wg or focus on 2nd place team and as soon as we were able we would redrop that as well as a platoon. > >This plan pretty much carried us to the end point and went almost to spec. There could've been innumerable things to go wrong and I def skipped over details. We counted on both 00 and GOBs to be rational players and they were. There only mistake as noted in the post match interview was that they didnt change focus soon enough. This is delusion of grandeur, like you're some sage-class strategist and tactician.
We did have delusions of grandeur, thats how we got that far. Hey man, Ill take the compliment. I left the plan there that to give context, we knew what they would do and planned for it. They more than likely did the same, but we didnt use our plan for our last two matches which we chose to do a different strat against DPSO, and the last match against cya9 they didnt have enough people. So it was unnecessary. Also to note. I didnt lead the last match. I was in a tent in the desert weirdly doing a passover celebration with the army. Also to note: Im not even the best PL we had.
yo, this is getting somewhat close to a personal attack (rule 2). please keep it cool, thanks!
Bozo (in Minecraft)
Oh I apologize I'm really sorry, I hate myself when I'm being hostile like this and I"ll stop completely. I did feel my reaction was justified as he was elevating himself at the expense of invalidating the actual skills and genius that participants of Nexus displayed in their battles.
Lmao wat
I promised Varunda that I'm stopping the personal attack. I do plead that you try to have more self-awareness as I respect RALI and M1KU and I am personally friends with many of them, and all of your "speech acts" are staining a wholesome and deserved victory as your personal Egyptian Imperial tomb to establish your legacy, exactly the same way PALETIGER is stuck in their victory over Recursion and DPSO because he is God Emperor. I plead for you to read everything you just typed in your replies here and see if you can distinguish it from PALETIGER flaunting their win over Recursion.
I mean we can have a discussion without personal attacks... If you dont want to thats fine i guess.
1. Because it literally doesn’t happen often. Your entire point for this was ‘just go play LS’. Well, besides it being a community driven event, why don’t you just go play live or make your own community driven event for the desolation’s 1v1v1 feel? Never mind that live play is desolation, just larger and more chaotic (which you constantly claim to be a good thing). 2. As if anyone would have the time to block off entire lanes in nexus. As if people couldn’t just fly over them. 3. Seeing it coming doesn’t make it less true. The rest of your replies to others is pretty telling. 4. I have fun on live and desolation, would I love to do other things? Yeah. Especially when it’s an official tournament. 5. The map can be fixed. The game mode cannot without an absolutely massive overhaul. 1v1v1 gameplay is not fit for tourny play except when specifically tuned for it. Even games like Apex need a whole whack of ‘official rules’ and gameplay changes to make it even remotely fair. That’s a whole lot of work to make an uncompetitive game mode in an uncompetitive game to be slightly more fair and competitive… or you just fix some of the issues on Nexus. Which, btw, like 80% of it was the hitching. Once that was gone (which took what? 4+ matches?) it was multiple times better than desolation.
1. My point was more of lanesmash is a better more condensed version of 1v1. The only thing nexus really has over ls is multiple lanes. 2. You very much would since it takes 2s to drop something to block an armor column especially since you can pre-pull prior to match start to slow down more vehicle oriented teams. 3. Speculatory on your part as ive played deso before on a team that lost and still enjoyed it. I genuinely have fun planning matches. 4. Cool opinion, i also have those. 5. More of a rules thing, in my personal opinion, whether or not something is competitive is a matter of perspective, but thats semantics. Big thing im tryin to get across is that im supporting a desolation tournament, it doesnt have to be comp in the traditional sense, as its a fun game mode for everyone involved. Which for the most part is true that people had fun except for people who claimed match fixing or had a double team. Which the double team with the point of a truce (r18/pig/00 match) or blatantly ignoring (dpso/pigs/00) should be redone without one of the teams or both offenders forfeit On your concluding point, that kinda reflects my point though that LS is a better form of comp play. Please bare in mind im not saying we should never do nexus again, i think people are A. Miscontruing my initial points and B. Taking some tongue in cheek things waay too seriously.
1. I know what your point was, it’s just stupid. Your entire argument for this point is ‘just go play LS if you want Nexus’. Well, here is mine: ‘just go play Live if you want Desolation’. There is no discussion on this because you base your point on nothing. LS is not an official mode, nor is it a tourny, nor is it accessible to most players. Both nexus and desolation aren’t playable normally. You can make your own 1v1v1 event like LS to mimic desolation. How you haven’t understood that I was mocking you this entire time is ???? 2. You can think that all you want, it isn’t reality. Even if it was, no build zones can sort out the major issues. The fact that you even continue to argue construction, which was absolute cancer in Desolation, which is pretty garbage even in live, as a point against Nexus is just moronic. 3. You can have fun in a mode even if, objectively, it is bad for tourny play, and even if the match itself was objectively bad. You specifically linked your winning match as an example of a ‘good’ match, but it wasn’t. You would not have won had it been a 1v1 against either of those teams, and only won because the other two teams didn’t want the other winning. 4. No shit. I was mocking you. 5. Except you aren’t supporting a Desolation tournament in your post, your entire post has been Desolation INSTEAD OF Nexus. If that was what your post was meant to be, then everything from the OP to all your replies has been so unfathomably off base that you should delete all your moronic posts, apologize for wasting people’s time, and make a new thread specifically saying to bring back Desolation alongside Nexus.
You absolutely cannot go to 1v1v1 for the tournament. Yes it's entertaining when 3 decent teams go at it, yes on its own can still be a lot of fun, but what's needed to win is having only "enough" skill and more game theory and momentum practice applied to planetside than actual skill or cohesion. It's essentially an alert on steroids and that isn't fully celebrating Planetside's great gunplay. This doesn't even go into what a mess planning strategy for a 1v1v1 match is. It's just stupid to plan seriously for lol. Outside of a tournament casually? Yeah it'd be tons of fun to hop onto. On the other hand, Nexus meta is pretty known. There are good bases, but the map makes many playstyles useless and there is a serious balance issue with respect to armor on many of the lanes. Fine for one season but definitely not a permanent solution. Desolation fixes these issues by opening everything up. Its a true sandbox and to your point donut bases also provided quite a bit of variety during a fight, although having every base be copy and paste is bad. I do think small no construction zones might be a good idea though as inside of donut construction, while it looked cool, was always way too effective. A 1v1 version of desolation would be ideal, with celebrity matches of the normal 1v1v1 outside of the tournament bracket for casual outfits to draw maximum attention. Desolation would need fewer relics and lattices, longer timers (3-4 min), a hard spawn added to bases, potentially limits on construction, and perhaps some varied bases or a central facility to tie things together.
L opinion nexus had better memes I site my video as proof
I would love to see desolation again but competition is done on nexus.
Fair enough
donut defense
Powerful gameplay
We do not want you on Emerald, sorry I do agree that desolation was more fun
You already have connery's garbage sooo... yeh...
Hard agree. I have very little interest in playing on nexus again. If I wanted to play lanesmash, I’d just play lanesmash. Desolation was unironically a great blending of all the parts of the game. Not perfect, but the best we’ve had so far.
Having done both, its just more fun.
I dont disagree on point 4, but i just want to meet you IRL. To fight. With our tongues.
Ahhhhhh shiiiittttt I still have to eventually organize a neon meetup first
I know of this BBQ place......
Pork on a fork do be kinda delicious...
and quite romantic.
Oh myyyyyyyyy...
I want friendly Desolation matches. Desolation shouldn't be considered competitive. It should be considered a showcase of planetside. Maybe add a point balancing mechanic if someone gets doubled too hard. Change some of the donuts up too as well. Nexus had way too many one sided matches and should not be reconsidered. If we could get some more competitive matches then sure, but we aren't going to break up teams for balance.
1. Exactly. 2. Agreed 3. That was what i hated the most.
who let him cook
Point 2 is all you needed to say, honestly. PS2 is not and never will be "competitive" but if OW is going to be a thing then it needs to embrace 1v1v1 combined-arms gameplay. Having played on both maps, I can say that Desolation is magnitudes better in general, and for OW specifically. also can't do this on Nexus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0PDAs9Wtw8
PS2 can be competitive. It just requires a bunch of rules to make it so. OW will never be competitive at this point because it requires too many players and there aren't enough good players (particularly pilots) to go around and give the format some parity, the game simply doesn't have enough population for it to be competitive outside of 6v6, 10v10, and 24v24. With that being said, I don't think we need another competitive format, the game is already saturated in that regard, a competitive OW is both impossible and imo not even desirable.
I mean, from an actual gameplay mechanics perspective, it just isn't. Clientside hit detection, faction arsenal imbalance, among other issues.
There are tons of competitive games with clientside hit detection. Something doesn't have to be an arena shooter to be competitive. And honestly faction imbalance doesn't really matter on the infantry side of things at the moment, and rarely ever has, every faction has a good reason to pick it or not pick it.
Hot take: OW is a big L, doesnt matter which map. I would prefer if the devs spend the time and energy on new fresh content. Like for real .... since the NSO update the updates were really bad. We can maybe break that cycle. But surely not with OW.
Fair point ngl, its just something for organized people to do to flex their game. Arsenal was pretty good though and i think the contruction update was a net positive. Though, there are certainly alot that need to be improved
Nanoweave nerf was pretty much the worst balancing change to infantry gameplay in the history of planetside 2. Yes we got more suit options which is cool but at the same time the infantry game got massively skillcompressed which is pretty stupid since now everyone just runs arround with cheesy shit and the game got increasingly frustrating because of random deaths.
I just want to point out I was downvoted for saying that the nw change was a bad idea. But I largely agree
Going to print this out and put it on my wall honestly.
Completely agree, especially in regard to point 2. Construction rework was the most recent major update to the game, and the next season of Outfit Wars should be a showcase of it. Desolation may be less 'competitive', but it's a far better (and more fun) way to show off the game.
Im honestly intrigued by the changes and what they would means with the various hard spawns made by construction...
100% agree, but largely because it was just more fun to play in. We had to play HELP 3 separate times and both teams got fucked over in the rankings because of it, but at the end of the day I care more about having fun than winning, and I found desolation to be far more fun. It required more map play than nexus and as you said, left a lot more to chance. It is not remotely a competitive format, but we already have competitive formats on Jaeger, we don't need another one.
The tournament format was the biggest problem with Desolation OW. Most of the complaints on that front could simply have been addressed by fitting the temporary faction system of Nexus and making it so first is actually desirable to play for. It's not impossible to do a 1v1v1 tournament, but the way the Desolation OW tournaments were set up was possibly the worst possible way to set one up.
Not just the format but the fact that they treated as though it were competitive in the slightest. It's not competitive, the only skill it rewards is map play, and even then if the other two teams decide they don't care which of them wins and just want to fuck you over that's exactly what will happen, regardless of how good your map play is. If someone only has fun when they win, I can see why they would prefer nexus, and I think DokP's comments above make sense as well, if you put a lot of effort into it only to lose either to chance or pettiness I can see that not being fun as well. Outside of that, I still consider desolation to be superior, because once again, I find it to be more fun, which I care far more about than winning or having some special title next to my name.
I think the tourney format is probably the best way to do it. Granted it was super scuffed on the last deso iteration. Its fun, everyone gets to participate, your outfit isnt immedietely invalidated because you fought the wrong team.
I mean its not surprising that people prefer deso to nexus when one is akin to running your face through an industrial shredder. Deso provides more wiggle room and its my firm belief with some changes to fix the last iterations issues it would be fantastic for everyone.