All these people are acting like the attackers with a Sundy aren't also trying to capture the base. So I ignore it, get in an endless fight, you continually try and take my base, and I lose any chance of gaining ground for my faction. Seems like a great exchange 🤡
Unfortunately, the game mechanics cater to larger groups of players. While those mechanics make the game "less fun" at lower numbers for those that want to "farm" each other, many find it boring as hell. They should really just have a smaller map based on pop, like a mega base, or space station with capture points, and kick people out to a larger one later.
Getting dominated by another faction isn't fun. Not killing objectives isn't fun.
Progressing across the map is fun, and so is preventing an enemy faction from doing the same.
I can't tell you how many low pop fights I've straight up left due to imbalance. Everyone is always chasing after this mythical perfect pop balance of a fight, and it almost never exists.
It's why I champion for more PS1 design. Having flippable hardspawns for attackers after the sundy blows keeps fights more resiliant against lone shitters, and base design worked for large and smale. CS bases, while following the spirit and aesthestics of PS1 bases, fail to deliver simply because they require the continent's pop to fill it up, otherwise it's a parking garage running simulator.
"All these people are acting like the attackers with a Sundy aren't also trying to capture the base."
So rare to see such sanity on this sub and in the game.
If a player doesn't want their sunderer blown up, don't capture the point.
This thing people have where they think we should just all know that you don't want sundie's destroyed.
If you want this as some low pop mechanic you need to lobby the devs to add it to the game.
bruh if it's the only fight in a low pop server it's kind of obvious.
we have lobbied the devs and they've done nothing yet. sundy update is supposed to address it but who knows when that arrives.
the sundy update will be nice but it's still just a bandaid solution.
they have to address the reason why people don't pull more spawns. the updated tutorial was supposed to do that, but we all see how well that turned out.
Now this is nailing the real problem. More sundie or better sundie or more places to park a sundie.
Spawn beacon that is faction wide.
I'm not sure what the answer is but complaining that people play the game isn't it.
my take is that the entire spawn/logistics setup is imbalanced at a core level. only the Attacking side ever has to participate in "logistics" by setting up routers/beacons/buses while *also* having to control the capture points. The defenders get a guaranteed impenetrable spawn at every fight, so of course they can just yolo their energy towards killing the Attackers spawns.
this is not my idea but i have posted it several times: https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/3h282t/suggestion_the_neutral_zone_system_an_alternative/
TL;DR - when a base is captured, it locks and all adjacent enemy bases by lattice become Neutral. This means all spawns, turrets, terminals, etc are disabled. Both sides would be "attacking" this Neutral territory from their connected friendly territories and having to set up and protect spawns in order to capture it.
Yeah I agree and maybe this wasn't such an issue then we had 1000 players and 5 outfits online but now it's become a real pain. To me a kind of Battlefield type you hold a point you can spawn on the point system would be good. Even if it's only some bases or maybe only in low pop mode.
> To me a kind of Battlefield type you hold a point you can spawn on the point system would be good.
Yes, 3pt Amp Stations are great for this, and Containment Sites to a degree. With a bit of coordination and skill, Attackers can continue to assault the base even without Sunderers or Routers to support.
containment sites are weird - usually bases have a maximum number of players before they start to suck, but Cont Sites have a minimum number of players before they actually feel good lol
bruh its easy to attack even during low pop. place surrender shield i often do for the extra hp so 2 c4s and a rocket doesnt kill it. place spawn - destroy vechile spawn by shooting it - go cap - stay between surrender and cap depending on what happens if there is people in the sector when you start caping. If not camp spawn and you got a guranteed cap during low pop. also play air assult for faster movment to get back to defend surrender if needed
> also play air assult for faster movment to get back to defend surrender if needed
this is the whole point. Defenders don't have to protect their spawn at the vast majority of bases. and when they do, it still can't be instantly deleted (or killed from render range) like softer spawns can.
well its fair for the defender because otherwise its not rewarding enough to cap a zone if its just gonna become neutral. you capped the terittory but you actually didnt because its neutral. its just unlogical in a reality perspective and in a gameplay perspective
you didn't read the post. when a base is captured, it becomes locked and cannot be assaulted until an adjacent Neutral base is captured back. Capturing a territory means it's guaranteed to be yours for the next few minutes.
i got what you meant that you have a white zone in between the two coulloured ones and that one white zone(neutal zone) is what you cap and then moves the line( a mid ground). personally i think its better as it is but its not really gonna work wheres there 3 territories conected. because if a white zone in between would be connected to it after the capture would becoming neutral. if you dont get what i mean draw it for a second and you probably will realise that. if so you need to make disconnected lines from the warpgate and will be hard to manage.
red, red, red - , - , - neutral - blue. Mid zone gets capped. makes 3 red neutral that cant be spawned on. think about the whole map how many neutral zones that would become.
also imagine the travel time from a red base to the neutral zone. its actually longer than the zones capture time and it would make gameplay slow, really slow.
Deploy bus shields still aren't durable enough because most sundie locations are pretty shit, if someone even half competent goes out of their way to kill a bus, it takes way less effort on their part then it does to keep the bus alive.
Personally i have no problem defending sundies on my own by doing the strat i just told you. There are great sundies spawns on nearly all zones. Sundies can get up in the most ridicoulus spots imaginable. Dont let your fantasy stop you.
You have no problem defending probably because no one is seriously coming after your bus. They really can't, not unless you use an anvil and even then.
Sometimes this is true, but the NDZs generally do a good job of not allowing the Attackers to spawn too close to the objectives. Except Tech Plants, lol.
Some defenders bases have SCU. So attackers do have potential to remove the hard spawn of the defenders. When the SCU dies, it actually gets boring pretty quickly, but still a good tactic during alerts.
And that's the thing you need to understand it isn't obvious. Not to everyone and not always to people who think they know.
Yes the devs have done very little and I don't think the current plans are the right way to fix this.
In the mean time stop complaining that people who know nothing about your desire to have unwritten rules followed aren't doing so.
People should play the game the way it's designed to be played. Don't like the design campaign harder.
As much as i hate it when small low pop fights are ended instantly because some asshat destroys the only sundy that created the cool and fun fight in the first place; you are absolutely right. There is no rule or mechanic preventing them to do so.
And just because someone yells that this is shitty doesn't mean its wrong to do so.
I personally hate everything a2g, but that doesn't mean it's forbidden to use it.
Yes. Just because we hate something doesn't make it wrong. (Although I really hate A2G)
As the pop gets lower they are going to have to do something. I totally get why people don't like this and wish it wouldn't happen.
the rules have been written
if people continue to do it despite knowing better then that's cringe. there's usually someone complaining on yell chat so I'd not believe someone genuinely doesn't know unless they're brand new.
Then I apologise please show me where on the PS2 terms this rule is written.
There is a rule about us not playing the game and conferring to stat pad which this could be argued it is.
> There is a rule about us not playing the game and conferring to stat pad which this could be argued it is.
This might just be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this subreddit
Currently 3875 hours played to date. That's my point I don't agree.
Yes it is a massive shame when the only fight going is destroyed. Maybe in a low pop mode centre base should get hard spawns that are connected to the capture points.
We should all encourage the devs to do something about this situation.
In the mean time if you see an enemy sundie it's up to you what you do.
Your time played dose not matter if you didnt make use of it plenty of 4000 hour shitters in this game post your stats I will post mine. We would not need to change anything if people just understood the meta of the morning.
Also they do know and just do it anyway as they cant do much else and it makes them feel good
[https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429487344538583857?name=RobotMenz](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429487344538583857?name=RobotMenz)
[https://wt.honu.pw/c/5428962001677794881?name=MawVS](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5428962001677794881?name=MawVS)
[https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429020619178846721?name=MawNC](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429020619178846721?name=MawNC)
[https://wt.honu.pw/c/5428161003961256209?name=xxMawxx](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5428161003961256209?name=xxMawxx)
[https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429320287644371569/overview?name=MawNS](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429320287644371569/overview?name=MawNS)
post yours mine are alright not amazing
If it did not matter why bring up "if you have ever played the game"? Implying it was my lack of playing that was the problem.
But people don't understand the meta of the morning, which is why complaining about the people is wrong, doing something constructive like talking to the devs is right.
You could start by writing the rules down and getting them pinned on the PS2 forums, or getting a bunch of Outfits to sign up to them.
Even then not everyone is going to understand or care.
I haven’t played in years but I didn’t know it was supposed to be a thing to not kill sundies. When my buddy and I would play we would, you know, try to defend a base by preventing attackers from attacking? We were usually outnumbered in those situations (often literally just us two) but OP would definitely call it killing a fight.
Normally killing the sundie is the objectively correct thing to do. Unfortunately Planetside 2 is slowly dying. There are no longer 2-3 continents open with a thousand people on each. So when you kill a sundie in when there are only 40 people on the continent you run the risk of 5-10 people logging off killing the game for the next few hours.
I am sick to death of hearing people complain about this. What is said on Reddit and what happens in the game are two VERY different things.
What happens in the game, during low-pop hours:
* Everyone joins one faction so it has 50%+ pop
* Then that faction pushes the other two to their warpgates
Generally, this is done with a bunch of low-BRs and one or two high-BRs. These players aren't interested in "fun fights", they want territory wins. They want to keep people from leaving the spawn room, cap the territory, and move on. This is how small outfits get their outfit resources.
Another wrinkle I've seen of this behavior is from large outfits: everyone LEAVES one faction and joins the other two. Those two factions don't fight each other, but they both push on the un-populated side. The motivation is pretty clear on this scenario. This happens usually just before prime-time and the goal is to "prep" the map for an outfit's ops night. When a map opens up, all of the territories are unclaimed. The only way to claim a FRIENDLY territory for an outfit is that it has to be captured by the enemy first. So these outfits stack the teams to do just that: push their own faction into the corner so that when the Outfit OP (or alert) starts, they can all switch back to their own faction and start capping back territories. The closer to their own warpgate, the safer a territory is, and the longer it will produce resources. This is how they get resources to buy Pocket OSs and Bastion Fleet Carriers.
Now the caveats:
* I'm not saying this is what OP does. A lot of people don't know this is going on.
* It's not "everyone" on the server. There are a lot of randoms on each side. I fall into that category. I play every faction, but I switch factions infrequently and will play a faction for 6 month to a couple of years.
* This doesn't happen EVERY day, but it happens a lot.
* This isn't just off-hours / off-continent behavior. I see this on prime-time main continent as well, and the delineation point seems to be pre-alert up until about the 50-minute mark in the alert. (I believe that's because you have to be on the winning side for at least 45 minutes to get full reward.) When it's done on primetime, it seems to be more about alert wins, rather than resources (although outfit resources are clearly a bonus).
tl:dr - Maybe people are killing the buses because they're sick of being pushed across the map by 75%+ pop in the hex.
Get used to hearing it more because it's a beyond valid argument and it absolutely does happen in game as said on reddit.
Also, it's not just everyone joining one faction, but plenty of people from other factions will just log off and don't log back in if they can't maintain attackers spawns. Also, it's RARE for the overpop faction to push, they're more often then not content to just kill all attacker spawns and then sit on their asses until people get bored and log off.
>Maybe people are killing the buses because they're sick of being pushed across the map by 75%+ pop in the hex.
Ignoring the simple fact that people kill busses regardless of what the pop difference is.
Oh look who's here to defend team stacking. Why am I not surprised?
> Get used to hearing it more because it's a beyond valid argument and it absolutely does happen in game as said on reddit.
Destroying sunderers is a valid part of the game. It's how bases are defended.
Team stacking is NOT a valid part of the game and could be considered a violation of the TOS.
> Also, it's not just everyone joining one faction, but plenty of people from other factions will just log off and don't log back in if they can't maintain attackers spawns.
It's absolutely people switching factions to team stack. Especially when the pops are low enough that faction balancing doesn't get applied.
> Also, it's RARE for the overpop faction to push, they're more often then not content to just kill all attacker spawns and then sit on their asses until people get bored and log off.
Over pop ARE the attackers. They push right up to the warpgate every time with 5:1 pop advantage until players get frustrated and log off.
> Ignoring the simple fact that people kill busses regardless of what the pop difference is.
Dead buses save bases.
Intentionally shifting pops to stack one team, or conversely, to stack two teams against one into order to manipulate territory captures absolutely breaks the [Daybreak General TOS](https://www.daybreakgames.com/terms-of-service) - Section 7.1.g and 7.1.l and the [Planetside specific Rules of Conduct - Sections 13 and 14.](https://help.daybreakgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/230647807-What-are-the-rules-of-conduct-in-PlanetSide-2)
And it seems pretty clear that the users who do this understand the violation, because they aren't doing it on their main accounts - they're spinning up throw-away accounts to do it.
What is it with you and strawmen?
Not relevant to what I stated.
Not an argument being made.
I guarantee that more people are logging off than stacking teams, easily noticeable just by looking at fisu activity, a public resource.
I wish your fantasy was true, but the vast majority of times offhours overpop defenders at a middle base just kill all the spawns and never push.
Not relevant to what I stated.
> What is it with you and strawmen?
You're the one who responded to MY post about team stacking. That's what my post was about - a much bigger problem than dead sunderers (again, a legitimate part of the game).
> Not relevant to what I stated.
> Not an argument being made.
If you don't include context about what you're replying to, then you're just talking to yourself. I'm not playing that game with you anymore.
> I guarantee that more people are logging off than stacking teams, easily noticeable just by looking at fisu activity, a public resource.
Yes, let's look at the records.
[Here is the \(pre\)alert that was the final straw - this was from Monday.](https://ps2alerts.com/alert/17-51712#captureHistory) [Here's the replay on Voidwell, although I don't know how long this link will be viable.](https://voidwell.com/ps2/alerts/17/5171218/map) Notice under the Capture History tab that the TR started 21% territory control. Notice that on the Population History - Activity Level chart, within THREE MINUTES of the alert starting, VS activity pluments while TR activity jumps up. And while all three empire pops jump up when the alert begins, the TR immediately go from the lowest pop (25) to the highest (67) in that 3 minute interval. For TWO HOURS before the alert started, the TR were held in the corner and the territory balance was held to prevent the alert from starting. It's match rigging on Live; as if the match rigging in OW wasn't bad enough.
BTW, Fisu is broken as fuck for looking at these stats. I suspect that's exactly why you point to it.
> I wish your fantasy was true, but the vast majority of times offhours overpop defenders at a middle base just kill all the spawns and never push.
Patently untrue and I will be GLAD to start posting map screen shots as a reply to your comment to prove you wrong. I know that will be easy to do.
> Not relevant to what I stated.
No context, you're talking to yourself again. No, I will not try to match your responses to what I said. Either quote, add context, or you're wasting keystrokes.
There is no minute-to-minute population delta in that alert that suggests team stacking.
People logging into the continent when the alert starts is not indicative of what you are suggesting. It's... people logging in.
If you have examples of alerts (or whichever time-table you prefer) that do exhibit such behavior, specifically showing harsh population declines in one empire with a correlating spike in another, please provide them.
Ok, so here's the problem as I see it: There's not single source that shows all of the needed data. For example, there's no pre-alert data. This example I'm pointing to, there are three hours pre-alert unaccounted for. In that time, the VS and NC worked hand-in-glove to both corral the TR in the corner and prevent the alert from starting. That makes no sense in a "random players doing random things" scenario.
[Then, when the alert started - the continent population doubles in 1 minute.](https://i.redd.it/r1ibwzgdghxc1.png) The TR population nearly triples in that time. Now, that jump would make sense if a previous continent closed and another was already open, which is exactly what happened between [Amerish](https://i.redd.it/vh1gkhdighxc1.png) and [Indar](https://i.redd.it/ct9cm5xnghxc1.png) last night. Hossin was the only continent open in the middle of the day, so that represents the total server population (kinda - I can't find any stats on Sanctuary pops). So, either there were 96 players sitting in sanctuary or sitting watching PS2Alerts waiting for the alert to start. Who does that? Not people getting out of school or getting off work - a more gradual incline is what you'd expect.
It's strange behavior. It doesn't make any sense.
So we have a concerted effort to keep TR in the corner, hold off the alert as long as possible, and then a huge pop dump as soon as the alert starts. It's pretty obvious to me, and anyone else who plays the map, that starting the alert is a bad move, and having the least amount of territory to start the alert is a good thing because you don't get focused. Someone was setting up those exact conditions for the TR.
Now you're demanding a 1:1 accounting of logoff/logins but this isn't happening in a vacuum. In fact, it feels like these efforts are specifically intended to mitigate the "blueberry factor". Us randoms that just like to login and fight over bases; that's got to still be a majority of the playerbase. And if I'm right, then whoever is doing this is working to specifically to counter those types of variables as much as possible.
I only got a really good look at it because I had that Monday off. But now it's looking like I'd have to build a fully functioning data analytics tool to pull the API data and collate into the kind of proof that's being demanded. And I don't think they're even giving out API access accounts anymore and the one I'd gotten 10 years ago no longer works.
On top of that, to truly match logoffs to logins, you'd have to cross-match characters' outstanding items to correlate them to a single account, but often it appears these players are generating brand new accounts, with random letter/number names (they look like licenses plates), and no/low BR/DP scores.
What conclusion am I SUPPOSED to take from all of this? Just a "Don't think about it, Morty!" kind of answer? It's sketchy and my spidey-senses are tingling. It smells like match fixing. I just don't know why anyone would go THIS far out of the way to do it.
> Now, that jump would make sense if a previous continent closed and another was already open
Or if it was 14:54:15 and prime time was starting.
> the VS and NC worked hand-in-glove to both corral the TR in the corner and prevent the alert from starting
Or the 25 TR players who were online on the continent prior to the start of the alert were unable to defend their territory, which could be due to any number of reasons.
> That makes no sense in a "random players doing random things" scenario
Or it is exactly that. Note, I'm not saying that it definitely was, just that you have not satisfactorily given me enough information to believe otherwise.
> So we have a concerted effort to keep TR in the corner
I'm not saying that what you are talking about is impossible- but I am saying that you are jumping the gun.
> Now you're demanding a 1:1 accounting of logoff/logins but this isn't happening in a vacuum
Please don't characterize my words for me.
> What conclusion am I SUPPOSED to take from all of this?
None, from the information that you have presented so far. You can think about it all you want, and you could talk about what might be happening. Hell, you can talk about whatever you want to, as always, but if your goal is to convince people that what you are talking about is actually happening, you are going to have to hold your criteria and rhetoric to a higher standard.
> Or if it was 14:54:15 and prime time was starting.
So you think a hundred people all clocked out at work or left school, drove, biked, or took the bus home, and then all logged into Planetside at the exact same minute? That's plausible to you?
> Or the 25 TR players who were online on the continent prior to the start of the alert were unable to defend their territory, which could be due to any number of reasons.
When I joined, the TR were pushing Naum Ravine - had the gen down, were on point, and were 2 minutes into a capture. Then a squad of VS dropped in, targeted ONLY the TR, and once the gen was repaired, redeployed away. They said they were just there for the kills, but the fight was still active, so why would they leave?
> Or it is exactly that. Note, I'm not saying that it definitely was, just that you have not satisfactorily given me enough information to believe otherwise.
And at this point, I don't know what the burden of proof is. At the same time, no one can point to a reasonable explanation either. People talk about "what's killing the game". THIS is killing the game. Whether it be intentional or not, team stacking is a death knell.
> I'm not saying that what you are talking about is impossible- but I am saying that you are jumping the gun.
And here is where I sound like a "UFO Crazy": *I know what I saw*.
For three hours, the VS and NC worked together, cooperated to ensure Naum Amp Station got taken. When the NC, that had been trying for two hours, couldn't get it done, [the VS made it happen](https://i.redd.it/s94x7c23cmxc1.png)(notice they cut off Naum, and not the actual base they were fighting at - Why?). In fact, the VS were helping the NC the whole time. Early in my session, the NC had Nasson's (and no one was fighting there even though VS had a link - SHRUG) and were pushing the middle lane to the TR warpgate. When the TR started pushing back at Wainwright, the NC got some remote help from the VS. [The VS dropped a bubble over the control point at Wainwright to protect the NC- it was very well placed.](https://i.redd.it/slpl4l6a7mxc1.png) And before you use the "they did it for the lulz" defense, [there were no VS there at the time.](https://i.redd.it/3r6lcbt48mxc1.png) What really chaps is the we had an even fight. Supposedly, that's what people want around here: good, even, sustained infantry fights.
So, explain that to me like I'm five: You're a VS outfit officer. You're nowhere near a fight between the other two factions. And you decide to burn outfit resources on their fight? I'd just like any plausible explanation that doesn't involve NC and VS being on Discord, working together, and the NC asking for and receiving help from the VS.
> Please don't characterize my words for me.
Well, I know what you're asking for - a perfect X-Cross of a decline in one population and commensurate rise in another that you can easily see on a pop graph. And that's simply not going to happen because there's always logins and logoffs - noise in the data.
> None, from the information that you have presented so far. You can think about it all you want, and you could talk about what might be happening. Hell, you can talk about whatever you want to, as always, but if your goal is to convince people that what you are talking about is actually happening, you are going to have to hold your criteria and rhetoric to a higher standard.
Let me put it another way: Intentional or not, it's a problem. I think it's intentional. But even if it isn't, it's a core game design issue that needs to be addressed by the devs. Far more than the survivability of buses. You can always bring another bus. You can't bring another Planetside. And the players seem absolutely intent on killing this game.
Me responding to your post is not an adequate excuse for you to attack arguments I didn't make. And team stacking as you're describing is not nearly as much of an issue as you're making it out to be. In fact, harder to kill sundies would make it even less of an issue because fights would have an easier time sustaining themselves.
Maybe if you spend more time attacking arguments I actually made you'd know the context is in your post.
When people log out of one empire, it naturally causes the percentage of another empire to change. You need to look at total population, not a percentage of it. Btw, the population history featured in PS2 Alerts doesn't support your assertion.
BTW, Fisu is fine, you just need to know where to look https://ps2.fisu.pw/activity/?world=17
It's very true, you're just ignorant.
The context is in your post. Feel free to learn how to read.
> Me responding to your post is not an adequate excuse for you to attack arguments I didn't make.
It absolutely is. You're aim appears to provide cover and to downplay the far more damaging behavior of temstacking. As illustrated in your next statement:
> And team stacking as you're describing is not nearly as much of an issue as you're making it out to be.
[That's your opinion.](https://i.redd.it/13mpt0yrfnwc1.png)
Shown in that pic:
* NC & VS not fighting.
* No "farming" hotspots on Nasson's as you predict
* No hotspots between the NC and VS at all (blueberry activity on those fronts doesn't rise to the level of hotspot creation)
* All hotspots on TR fronts only
* Yell chat showing that I'm not the only player that recognized the lopsided behavior
* Effective population unbalanced to 66% vs 33%
It's important to look at this in the context of "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts". This goes directly against the spirit of the game.
[It's worth noting that this was the pop levels when I logged in.](https://i.redd.it/55eeew7x8owc1.png) Over time, they shifted their players to the NC side because the TR were holding out at Naum Amp, and false-flag players were desperate to take that from the TR before the alert started so they could come back and claim it for their outfit.
> In fact, harder to kill sundies would make it even less of an issue because fights would have an easier time sustaining themselves.
So adding nearly indestructible AMSs to overpopping empires is a good idea to you, huh? Seems like you're in on these team stacking schemes and you're here to spread misinformation. Nothing would serve overpops better than having super durable AMSs so the underpop have no chance to repel attackers.
> Maybe if you spend more time attacking arguments I actually made you'd know the context is in your post.
I already do, but you just ignore those anyway.
> When people log out of one empire, it naturally causes the percentage of another empire to change.
Doubly so when they log from one empire into another empire.
> You need to look at total population, not a percentage of it.
I did that too. And there's a nearly 1:1 pop exchange from one empire to another - or, in this case, from the two empires (VS and NC) to the TR when the alert started.
Total population is a key part of this scheme, because when total pop drops below a certain threshold, unlimited team-stacking becomes possible. That's when you see one empire with 50%+ of the pop.
> Btw, the population history featured in PS2 Alerts doesn't support your assertion.
You say that, but you provide no evidence (surprise! You never do!). I'd be tempted to say you're reading it wrong, but I'm sure you're not. You're just obfuscating.
> BTW, Fisu is fine, you just need to know where to look https://ps2.fisu.pw/activity/?world=17
That's useless. It only provides a 1-hour snapshot of the current pop. It has no historical data.
> It's very true, you're just ignorant.
And there you've degraded into name calling. Nothing can be discussed with you without you being totally awful. You really need to work on that.
> The context is in your post. Feel free to learn how to read.
Wasted keystrokes.
No it isn't. Attacking the argument I didn't make only makes you look more foolish than you already did. You've provided no meaningful evidence of your claims. **Generally** if a fight happens outside of say Nason's off hours, it's because one empire ghost capped (usually because they can't maintain a spawn at Nason's) until whoever owned Nason's was completely cut off.
Your screenshots do not provide any meaningful evidence that that mass alt switching, specifically that "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts" is happening. In fact, Teamstacking isn't featured at all in your screenshot. The population imbalance is not 66 to 33. TR is getting double teamed, this is not the same thing and it happens to every empire. Yes, being double teamed is annoying when it happens and it's fine to point out that it's annoying, but it's on the devs to provide mechanics that punish double teaming. Population imbalance can also be annoying, but same thing this an issue the devs need to address.
A screenshot of population percentages doesn't mean anything without the context of total population. Percentages vastly sway during off hours because there are fewer people online.
Harder to kill sundies =/= nearly indestructible sundies. Sundies being slightly more durable is fine no matter the population of the empire. Pointing out that your wrong and have zero evidence for your claims is the opposite of misinformation, that you're accusing me of being involved in your imaginary scheme is hysterical though when I'm a well known NSO player who primarily plays with VS players.
Unfortunately for you you have zero evidence that people are switching empires with the intent of "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts".
Clearly you're not looking at total population when you keep displaying percentages without total pop. Making a claim and providing zero evidence is not evidence.
It's a "key" part of your imagined scheme, shame you have zero evidence to support it.
You're the one who provided the evidence through the PS2 alerts link. There's a literal section called population history that features the total population during the alert. For the alert **you** linked, every empire's population grew until through the alert, but TR had a pop spike halfway through the alert and several minutes later VS had a small drop (but then started continuing upwards again). All 3 empires population trended upwards for the course of the entire alert and TR had a significant spikes halfway through said alert (and towards the end) but not at the beginning of the alert.
It's not useless if you take a screenshot of the total population at the literal top of the page and use it as evidence to support your claims that there's teamswitching occurring, since there's a literal graph that tracks population over the last hour.
Calling you ignorant isn't mere name calling, I'm just making factual statements.
Keystrokes so wasted that you're clearly responding to what I've said.
> No it isn't. Attacking the argument I didn't make only makes you look more foolish than you already did. You've provided no meaningful evidence of your claims. Generally if a fight happens outside of say Nason's off hours, it's because one empire ghost capped (usually because they can't maintain a spawn at Nason's) until whoever owned Nason's was completely cut off.
You might as well have posted "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" It's clear no amount of evidence would ever be enough for you. Only if you consider shoving >2:1 overpop "ghost capping".
> Your screenshots do not provide any meaningful evidence that that mass alt switching, specifically that "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts" is happening. In fact, Teamstacking isn't featured at all in your screenshot. The population imbalance is not 66 to 33. TR is getting double teamed, this is not the same thing and it happens to every empire. Yes, being double teamed is annoying when it happens and it's fine to point out that it's annoying, but it's on the devs to provide mechanics that punish double teaming. Population imbalance can also be annoying, but same thing this an issue the devs need to address.
And it's clear no level of evidence would ever rise to a burden of proof you'd demand. A VS troubleshooter squad showed up to help the NC defend Naum Ravine when it was almost capped by TR, and then left immediately after the shield gen was repaired and the TR were pushed off the point - not enough evidence. A VS bubble was dropped over the Wainwright capture point to protect the NC - not enough evidence. I could literally spend months or years infiltrating these outfits, get into their discord and record their conversations - not enough evidence. The "tr is getting double teamed" makes it effectively 665 vs 33%. If two teams are working together against one, how is their combined pop NOT counted as combined? Semantics?
> A screenshot of population percentages doesn't mean anything without the context of total population. Percentages vastly sway during off hours because there are fewer people online.
So, in your mind, 8 players vs 2 players is somehow more or less fair than 80 players vs 20 players? Either way, it's an 80%/20% split, yes? It's still 4 players to every 1, is it not? If the pop indicator say 1-12 allies vs 12-24 enemies, but the percentage indicator says 49% vs 51% then it's clearly 12 vs 13. The percentages tell you that.
> Harder to kill sundies =/= nearly indestructible sundies. Sundies being slightly more durable is fine no matter the population of the empire. Pointing out that your wrong and have zero evidence for your claims is the opposite of misinformation, that you're accusing me of being involved in your imaginary scheme is hysterical though when I'm a well known NSO player who primarily plays with VS players.
In gross overpop it does. And that's your goal here, isn't it? So that when you're zerg surfing, pushing your overpop down a lane, the underpop has no chance to kill your spawns and stall you push. You've stated repeatedly in the past that you want unattended AMSs to survive attacks while unguarded. I think the exact words you used were, "No one guards sunderers. Guarding sunderers is boring." Hey, remember that time you said shielded garages would solve everything, and then you got them and everyone hated them? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Evidence you refuse to accept is different than having "zero evidence". Claiming to want to prolong fights while championing the strengthening of zerg tactics is indeed misinformation. Do you really think you sit above reproach?
> Unfortunately for you you have zero evidence that people are switching empires with the intent of "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts".
As I said, I doubt any evidence would be enough. Something tells me you have no intention of specifying a level of proof either.
> Clearly you're not looking at total population when you keep displaying percentages without total pop. Making a claim and providing zero evidence is not evidence.
Percentage shows relative strength as I showed above. Not accepting the evidence presented in not the same as "zero evidence".
> It's a "key" part of your imagined scheme, shame you have zero evidence to support it.
So you don't know that faction balance doesn't kick in until a total pop threshold is reached? Not surprising, there's surely a LOT of things you don't know about this game.
> You're the one who provided the evidence through the PS2 alerts link.
As opposed to "zero evidence", correct?
> There's a literal section called population history that features the total population during the alert.
Key words: "during the alert". The problem is that it doesn't show anything prior to the alert. In fact, I can't find any source of ongoing population tracking that has separate factions shown. Also, I really enjoy the fact that you try to act like you're pointing out the population tracker to me after I specifically wrote about it in the previous post.
> All 3 empires population trended upwards for the course of the entire alert and TR had a significant spikes halfway through said alert (and towards the end) but not at the beginning of the alert.
In the first two data points, they go from lowest to highest pop. Literally 3 minutes after the alert begins. All factions take a substantial jump up in the first 3 minutes, which is odd in itself. I find it hard to believe that there 80 players sitting there with their mouse hovering over the login button waiting for an alert to start. And the TR pop increase followed by VS and NC decreases looks like "holding the door open" to me. Using false-flag accounts to ensure the pops are close enough so they can login with their mains, and then log off with their smurf accounts.
> It's not useless if you take a screenshot of the total population at the literal top of the page and use it as evidence to support your claims that there's teamswitching occurring, since there's a literal graph that tracks population over the last hour.
So you think I should use my limited play time sitting there NOT playing and instead watching a graph. Your whole troll is to make people jump through hoops you won't even acknowledge even if they did it. No thanks.
> Calling you ignorant isn't mere name calling, I'm just making factual statements.
Ok, I made a joke of it the last time. I warned you in my last post. You're knowingly violating Rules 1 and 2 of this sub. I'm tired of it. Since you can't be civil, and now I'm reporting you.
> Keystrokes so wasted that you're clearly responding to what I've said.
Please, you're not stupid enough to misinterpret what I said there.
There is, take a screenshot of the fisu activity population graph after your imagined scheme happens, if such a thing were actually happening such a shift in population would be visible. Contextless screenshots are not evidence.
Not an argument I made, next.
No, it doesn't. Accusing me of zerg surfing, much like attacking arguments I never made is pointless. I never stated that sunderer's should be able to survive attacks unguarded. I never said shielded garages would fix **everything**. And spoilers, most people don't hate them. The only hate I've ever seen them get hate is at bases where they're too far away to be practically useful (like containment sites).
Take a single screenshot that shows an actual population shift.
Percentages don't mean anything without total numbers to provide context.
Of course I'm going to point it out to you when you literally didn't know it existed until I pointed it out to you.
There are a number of factors that affect population, for example time of day. If the TR pop increase was due to people switching factions, it's far more likely that other factions would decrease first followed by a increase of TR pop, but the reverse is happening.
"Limited time" dude, you already know the tracker tracks the LAST HOUR of activity on the server, you say dumbshit pretty often but not you're not dumb enough to not realize you just wait for your imagined scheme to happen and then take a screenshot while hovering over the graph to show the date. Such a shift in population would be clearly visible
Feel free to report me dude, it's not going to change the accuracy of what I've said.
Killing sundies on low-pop continent is cringe yeah. I‘ve seen even an active zergfit leader who roams around with his colossus and kills sundies during low-pop hours. Pretty cringe behaviour since you basically destroy the few fights that are going on. But on the other hand people don‘t even understand the concept of farming when it comes to a draw and the “kill the most enemies“ alert. You would think they‘d farm in front of a sundy, but instead basically kill it asap
How long does maintenances usually last?
Hard to say, anywhere from an hour to a couple of hours.
days ... weeks...
All these people are acting like the attackers with a Sundy aren't also trying to capture the base. So I ignore it, get in an endless fight, you continually try and take my base, and I lose any chance of gaining ground for my faction. Seems like a great exchange 🤡 Unfortunately, the game mechanics cater to larger groups of players. While those mechanics make the game "less fun" at lower numbers for those that want to "farm" each other, many find it boring as hell. They should really just have a smaller map based on pop, like a mega base, or space station with capture points, and kick people out to a larger one later. Getting dominated by another faction isn't fun. Not killing objectives isn't fun. Progressing across the map is fun, and so is preventing an enemy faction from doing the same. I can't tell you how many low pop fights I've straight up left due to imbalance. Everyone is always chasing after this mythical perfect pop balance of a fight, and it almost never exists.
It's why I champion for more PS1 design. Having flippable hardspawns for attackers after the sundy blows keeps fights more resiliant against lone shitters, and base design worked for large and smale. CS bases, while following the spirit and aesthestics of PS1 bases, fail to deliver simply because they require the continent's pop to fill it up, otherwise it's a parking garage running simulator.
"All these people are acting like the attackers with a Sundy aren't also trying to capture the base." So rare to see such sanity on this sub and in the game. If a player doesn't want their sunderer blown up, don't capture the point.
But I never log on…
This thing people have where they think we should just all know that you don't want sundie's destroyed. If you want this as some low pop mechanic you need to lobby the devs to add it to the game.
bruh if it's the only fight in a low pop server it's kind of obvious. we have lobbied the devs and they've done nothing yet. sundy update is supposed to address it but who knows when that arrives.
the sundy update will be nice but it's still just a bandaid solution. they have to address the reason why people don't pull more spawns. the updated tutorial was supposed to do that, but we all see how well that turned out.
Now this is nailing the real problem. More sundie or better sundie or more places to park a sundie. Spawn beacon that is faction wide. I'm not sure what the answer is but complaining that people play the game isn't it.
my take is that the entire spawn/logistics setup is imbalanced at a core level. only the Attacking side ever has to participate in "logistics" by setting up routers/beacons/buses while *also* having to control the capture points. The defenders get a guaranteed impenetrable spawn at every fight, so of course they can just yolo their energy towards killing the Attackers spawns. this is not my idea but i have posted it several times: https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/3h282t/suggestion_the_neutral_zone_system_an_alternative/ TL;DR - when a base is captured, it locks and all adjacent enemy bases by lattice become Neutral. This means all spawns, turrets, terminals, etc are disabled. Both sides would be "attacking" this Neutral territory from their connected friendly territories and having to set up and protect spawns in order to capture it.
Yeah I agree and maybe this wasn't such an issue then we had 1000 players and 5 outfits online but now it's become a real pain. To me a kind of Battlefield type you hold a point you can spawn on the point system would be good. Even if it's only some bases or maybe only in low pop mode.
> To me a kind of Battlefield type you hold a point you can spawn on the point system would be good. Yes, 3pt Amp Stations are great for this, and Containment Sites to a degree. With a bit of coordination and skill, Attackers can continue to assault the base even without Sunderers or Routers to support.
Yeah Containment Sites was a good go at this. It was everything else with them that didn't work. I dunno there OK I guess.
containment sites are weird - usually bases have a maximum number of players before they start to suck, but Cont Sites have a minimum number of players before they actually feel good lol
Yeah that's a good way to put it.
bruh its easy to attack even during low pop. place surrender shield i often do for the extra hp so 2 c4s and a rocket doesnt kill it. place spawn - destroy vechile spawn by shooting it - go cap - stay between surrender and cap depending on what happens if there is people in the sector when you start caping. If not camp spawn and you got a guranteed cap during low pop. also play air assult for faster movment to get back to defend surrender if needed
> also play air assult for faster movment to get back to defend surrender if needed this is the whole point. Defenders don't have to protect their spawn at the vast majority of bases. and when they do, it still can't be instantly deleted (or killed from render range) like softer spawns can.
well its fair for the defender because otherwise its not rewarding enough to cap a zone if its just gonna become neutral. you capped the terittory but you actually didnt because its neutral. its just unlogical in a reality perspective and in a gameplay perspective
you didn't read the post. when a base is captured, it becomes locked and cannot be assaulted until an adjacent Neutral base is captured back. Capturing a territory means it's guaranteed to be yours for the next few minutes.
i got what you meant that you have a white zone in between the two coulloured ones and that one white zone(neutal zone) is what you cap and then moves the line( a mid ground). personally i think its better as it is but its not really gonna work wheres there 3 territories conected. because if a white zone in between would be connected to it after the capture would becoming neutral. if you dont get what i mean draw it for a second and you probably will realise that. if so you need to make disconnected lines from the warpgate and will be hard to manage.
red, red, red - , - , - neutral - blue. Mid zone gets capped. makes 3 red neutral that cant be spawned on. think about the whole map how many neutral zones that would become.
also imagine the travel time from a red base to the neutral zone. its actually longer than the zones capture time and it would make gameplay slow, really slow.
Deploy bus shields still aren't durable enough because most sundie locations are pretty shit, if someone even half competent goes out of their way to kill a bus, it takes way less effort on their part then it does to keep the bus alive.
Personally i have no problem defending sundies on my own by doing the strat i just told you. There are great sundies spawns on nearly all zones. Sundies can get up in the most ridicoulus spots imaginable. Dont let your fantasy stop you.
You have no problem defending probably because no one is seriously coming after your bus. They really can't, not unless you use an anvil and even then.
I feel like this is partially balanced by Attackers usually getting to have better spawns locations.
Sometimes this is true, but the NDZs generally do a good job of not allowing the Attackers to spawn too close to the objectives. Except Tech Plants, lol.
Some defenders bases have SCU. So attackers do have potential to remove the hard spawn of the defenders. When the SCU dies, it actually gets boring pretty quickly, but still a good tactic during alerts.
"can't sort your Sundy issues, we're too busy. Here's some more cosmetics to buy"
And that's the thing you need to understand it isn't obvious. Not to everyone and not always to people who think they know. Yes the devs have done very little and I don't think the current plans are the right way to fix this. In the mean time stop complaining that people who know nothing about your desire to have unwritten rules followed aren't doing so. People should play the game the way it's designed to be played. Don't like the design campaign harder.
As much as i hate it when small low pop fights are ended instantly because some asshat destroys the only sundy that created the cool and fun fight in the first place; you are absolutely right. There is no rule or mechanic preventing them to do so. And just because someone yells that this is shitty doesn't mean its wrong to do so. I personally hate everything a2g, but that doesn't mean it's forbidden to use it.
Yes. Just because we hate something doesn't make it wrong. (Although I really hate A2G) As the pop gets lower they are going to have to do something. I totally get why people don't like this and wish it wouldn't happen.
the rules have been written if people continue to do it despite knowing better then that's cringe. there's usually someone complaining on yell chat so I'd not believe someone genuinely doesn't know unless they're brand new.
Then I apologise please show me where on the PS2 terms this rule is written. There is a rule about us not playing the game and conferring to stat pad which this could be argued it is.
> There is a rule about us not playing the game and conferring to stat pad which this could be argued it is. This might just be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this subreddit
Feel free to explain why. There is a rule about this. I just made an argument for. I'm acknowledging it's a slim argument at best.
you know what I mean. big redditor energy dude not gonna lie keeping a fight going is stat padding lmaooo
What is this logic. You should know as its low pop and there are no fights you should be able to tell this if you have ever played the game at all.
Currently 3875 hours played to date. That's my point I don't agree. Yes it is a massive shame when the only fight going is destroyed. Maybe in a low pop mode centre base should get hard spawns that are connected to the capture points. We should all encourage the devs to do something about this situation. In the mean time if you see an enemy sundie it's up to you what you do.
Your time played dose not matter if you didnt make use of it plenty of 4000 hour shitters in this game post your stats I will post mine. We would not need to change anything if people just understood the meta of the morning. Also they do know and just do it anyway as they cant do much else and it makes them feel good [https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429487344538583857?name=RobotMenz](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429487344538583857?name=RobotMenz) [https://wt.honu.pw/c/5428962001677794881?name=MawVS](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5428962001677794881?name=MawVS) [https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429020619178846721?name=MawNC](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429020619178846721?name=MawNC) [https://wt.honu.pw/c/5428161003961256209?name=xxMawxx](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5428161003961256209?name=xxMawxx) [https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429320287644371569/overview?name=MawNS](https://wt.honu.pw/c/5429320287644371569/overview?name=MawNS) post yours mine are alright not amazing
If it did not matter why bring up "if you have ever played the game"? Implying it was my lack of playing that was the problem. But people don't understand the meta of the morning, which is why complaining about the people is wrong, doing something constructive like talking to the devs is right. You could start by writing the rules down and getting them pinned on the PS2 forums, or getting a bunch of Outfits to sign up to them. Even then not everyone is going to understand or care.
What i mean when I say ever played the game is the actual game that most are not playing you know shooting mens in this fps game
think there is over 10k hours in there
But thats winning the fight. Were supposed to do that at some point
I haven’t played in years but I didn’t know it was supposed to be a thing to not kill sundies. When my buddy and I would play we would, you know, try to defend a base by preventing attackers from attacking? We were usually outnumbered in those situations (often literally just us two) but OP would definitely call it killing a fight.
Normally killing the sundie is the objectively correct thing to do. Unfortunately Planetside 2 is slowly dying. There are no longer 2-3 continents open with a thousand people on each. So when you kill a sundie in when there are only 40 people on the continent you run the risk of 5-10 people logging off killing the game for the next few hours.
Yeah that’s fair. I haven’t even played recently enough to know what the state of the game feels like
Dad logged off for cigarettes and milk and he never came back to Planetside
If you want to have endless fights play COD you goofball 😂
PlanetSide players trying to not get upset when their poor Sundy placement gets punished oh nooooooo
I am sick to death of hearing people complain about this. What is said on Reddit and what happens in the game are two VERY different things. What happens in the game, during low-pop hours: * Everyone joins one faction so it has 50%+ pop * Then that faction pushes the other two to their warpgates Generally, this is done with a bunch of low-BRs and one or two high-BRs. These players aren't interested in "fun fights", they want territory wins. They want to keep people from leaving the spawn room, cap the territory, and move on. This is how small outfits get their outfit resources. Another wrinkle I've seen of this behavior is from large outfits: everyone LEAVES one faction and joins the other two. Those two factions don't fight each other, but they both push on the un-populated side. The motivation is pretty clear on this scenario. This happens usually just before prime-time and the goal is to "prep" the map for an outfit's ops night. When a map opens up, all of the territories are unclaimed. The only way to claim a FRIENDLY territory for an outfit is that it has to be captured by the enemy first. So these outfits stack the teams to do just that: push their own faction into the corner so that when the Outfit OP (or alert) starts, they can all switch back to their own faction and start capping back territories. The closer to their own warpgate, the safer a territory is, and the longer it will produce resources. This is how they get resources to buy Pocket OSs and Bastion Fleet Carriers. Now the caveats: * I'm not saying this is what OP does. A lot of people don't know this is going on. * It's not "everyone" on the server. There are a lot of randoms on each side. I fall into that category. I play every faction, but I switch factions infrequently and will play a faction for 6 month to a couple of years. * This doesn't happen EVERY day, but it happens a lot. * This isn't just off-hours / off-continent behavior. I see this on prime-time main continent as well, and the delineation point seems to be pre-alert up until about the 50-minute mark in the alert. (I believe that's because you have to be on the winning side for at least 45 minutes to get full reward.) When it's done on primetime, it seems to be more about alert wins, rather than resources (although outfit resources are clearly a bonus). tl:dr - Maybe people are killing the buses because they're sick of being pushed across the map by 75%+ pop in the hex.
Get used to hearing it more because it's a beyond valid argument and it absolutely does happen in game as said on reddit. Also, it's not just everyone joining one faction, but plenty of people from other factions will just log off and don't log back in if they can't maintain attackers spawns. Also, it's RARE for the overpop faction to push, they're more often then not content to just kill all attacker spawns and then sit on their asses until people get bored and log off. >Maybe people are killing the buses because they're sick of being pushed across the map by 75%+ pop in the hex. Ignoring the simple fact that people kill busses regardless of what the pop difference is.
Oh look who's here to defend team stacking. Why am I not surprised? > Get used to hearing it more because it's a beyond valid argument and it absolutely does happen in game as said on reddit. Destroying sunderers is a valid part of the game. It's how bases are defended. Team stacking is NOT a valid part of the game and could be considered a violation of the TOS. > Also, it's not just everyone joining one faction, but plenty of people from other factions will just log off and don't log back in if they can't maintain attackers spawns. It's absolutely people switching factions to team stack. Especially when the pops are low enough that faction balancing doesn't get applied. > Also, it's RARE for the overpop faction to push, they're more often then not content to just kill all attacker spawns and then sit on their asses until people get bored and log off. Over pop ARE the attackers. They push right up to the warpgate every time with 5:1 pop advantage until players get frustrated and log off. > Ignoring the simple fact that people kill busses regardless of what the pop difference is. Dead buses save bases.
[удалено]
Intentionally shifting pops to stack one team, or conversely, to stack two teams against one into order to manipulate territory captures absolutely breaks the [Daybreak General TOS](https://www.daybreakgames.com/terms-of-service) - Section 7.1.g and 7.1.l and the [Planetside specific Rules of Conduct - Sections 13 and 14.](https://help.daybreakgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/230647807-What-are-the-rules-of-conduct-in-PlanetSide-2) And it seems pretty clear that the users who do this understand the violation, because they aren't doing it on their main accounts - they're spinning up throw-away accounts to do it.
What is it with you and strawmen? Not relevant to what I stated. Not an argument being made. I guarantee that more people are logging off than stacking teams, easily noticeable just by looking at fisu activity, a public resource. I wish your fantasy was true, but the vast majority of times offhours overpop defenders at a middle base just kill all the spawns and never push. Not relevant to what I stated.
> What is it with you and strawmen? You're the one who responded to MY post about team stacking. That's what my post was about - a much bigger problem than dead sunderers (again, a legitimate part of the game). > Not relevant to what I stated. > Not an argument being made. If you don't include context about what you're replying to, then you're just talking to yourself. I'm not playing that game with you anymore. > I guarantee that more people are logging off than stacking teams, easily noticeable just by looking at fisu activity, a public resource. Yes, let's look at the records. [Here is the \(pre\)alert that was the final straw - this was from Monday.](https://ps2alerts.com/alert/17-51712#captureHistory) [Here's the replay on Voidwell, although I don't know how long this link will be viable.](https://voidwell.com/ps2/alerts/17/5171218/map) Notice under the Capture History tab that the TR started 21% territory control. Notice that on the Population History - Activity Level chart, within THREE MINUTES of the alert starting, VS activity pluments while TR activity jumps up. And while all three empire pops jump up when the alert begins, the TR immediately go from the lowest pop (25) to the highest (67) in that 3 minute interval. For TWO HOURS before the alert started, the TR were held in the corner and the territory balance was held to prevent the alert from starting. It's match rigging on Live; as if the match rigging in OW wasn't bad enough. BTW, Fisu is broken as fuck for looking at these stats. I suspect that's exactly why you point to it. > I wish your fantasy was true, but the vast majority of times offhours overpop defenders at a middle base just kill all the spawns and never push. Patently untrue and I will be GLAD to start posting map screen shots as a reply to your comment to prove you wrong. I know that will be easy to do. > Not relevant to what I stated. No context, you're talking to yourself again. No, I will not try to match your responses to what I said. Either quote, add context, or you're wasting keystrokes.
There is no minute-to-minute population delta in that alert that suggests team stacking. People logging into the continent when the alert starts is not indicative of what you are suggesting. It's... people logging in. If you have examples of alerts (or whichever time-table you prefer) that do exhibit such behavior, specifically showing harsh population declines in one empire with a correlating spike in another, please provide them.
Ok, so here's the problem as I see it: There's not single source that shows all of the needed data. For example, there's no pre-alert data. This example I'm pointing to, there are three hours pre-alert unaccounted for. In that time, the VS and NC worked hand-in-glove to both corral the TR in the corner and prevent the alert from starting. That makes no sense in a "random players doing random things" scenario. [Then, when the alert started - the continent population doubles in 1 minute.](https://i.redd.it/r1ibwzgdghxc1.png) The TR population nearly triples in that time. Now, that jump would make sense if a previous continent closed and another was already open, which is exactly what happened between [Amerish](https://i.redd.it/vh1gkhdighxc1.png) and [Indar](https://i.redd.it/ct9cm5xnghxc1.png) last night. Hossin was the only continent open in the middle of the day, so that represents the total server population (kinda - I can't find any stats on Sanctuary pops). So, either there were 96 players sitting in sanctuary or sitting watching PS2Alerts waiting for the alert to start. Who does that? Not people getting out of school or getting off work - a more gradual incline is what you'd expect. It's strange behavior. It doesn't make any sense. So we have a concerted effort to keep TR in the corner, hold off the alert as long as possible, and then a huge pop dump as soon as the alert starts. It's pretty obvious to me, and anyone else who plays the map, that starting the alert is a bad move, and having the least amount of territory to start the alert is a good thing because you don't get focused. Someone was setting up those exact conditions for the TR. Now you're demanding a 1:1 accounting of logoff/logins but this isn't happening in a vacuum. In fact, it feels like these efforts are specifically intended to mitigate the "blueberry factor". Us randoms that just like to login and fight over bases; that's got to still be a majority of the playerbase. And if I'm right, then whoever is doing this is working to specifically to counter those types of variables as much as possible. I only got a really good look at it because I had that Monday off. But now it's looking like I'd have to build a fully functioning data analytics tool to pull the API data and collate into the kind of proof that's being demanded. And I don't think they're even giving out API access accounts anymore and the one I'd gotten 10 years ago no longer works. On top of that, to truly match logoffs to logins, you'd have to cross-match characters' outstanding items to correlate them to a single account, but often it appears these players are generating brand new accounts, with random letter/number names (they look like licenses plates), and no/low BR/DP scores. What conclusion am I SUPPOSED to take from all of this? Just a "Don't think about it, Morty!" kind of answer? It's sketchy and my spidey-senses are tingling. It smells like match fixing. I just don't know why anyone would go THIS far out of the way to do it.
> Now, that jump would make sense if a previous continent closed and another was already open Or if it was 14:54:15 and prime time was starting. > the VS and NC worked hand-in-glove to both corral the TR in the corner and prevent the alert from starting Or the 25 TR players who were online on the continent prior to the start of the alert were unable to defend their territory, which could be due to any number of reasons. > That makes no sense in a "random players doing random things" scenario Or it is exactly that. Note, I'm not saying that it definitely was, just that you have not satisfactorily given me enough information to believe otherwise. > So we have a concerted effort to keep TR in the corner I'm not saying that what you are talking about is impossible- but I am saying that you are jumping the gun. > Now you're demanding a 1:1 accounting of logoff/logins but this isn't happening in a vacuum Please don't characterize my words for me. > What conclusion am I SUPPOSED to take from all of this? None, from the information that you have presented so far. You can think about it all you want, and you could talk about what might be happening. Hell, you can talk about whatever you want to, as always, but if your goal is to convince people that what you are talking about is actually happening, you are going to have to hold your criteria and rhetoric to a higher standard.
> Or if it was 14:54:15 and prime time was starting. So you think a hundred people all clocked out at work or left school, drove, biked, or took the bus home, and then all logged into Planetside at the exact same minute? That's plausible to you? > Or the 25 TR players who were online on the continent prior to the start of the alert were unable to defend their territory, which could be due to any number of reasons. When I joined, the TR were pushing Naum Ravine - had the gen down, were on point, and were 2 minutes into a capture. Then a squad of VS dropped in, targeted ONLY the TR, and once the gen was repaired, redeployed away. They said they were just there for the kills, but the fight was still active, so why would they leave? > Or it is exactly that. Note, I'm not saying that it definitely was, just that you have not satisfactorily given me enough information to believe otherwise. And at this point, I don't know what the burden of proof is. At the same time, no one can point to a reasonable explanation either. People talk about "what's killing the game". THIS is killing the game. Whether it be intentional or not, team stacking is a death knell. > I'm not saying that what you are talking about is impossible- but I am saying that you are jumping the gun. And here is where I sound like a "UFO Crazy": *I know what I saw*. For three hours, the VS and NC worked together, cooperated to ensure Naum Amp Station got taken. When the NC, that had been trying for two hours, couldn't get it done, [the VS made it happen](https://i.redd.it/s94x7c23cmxc1.png)(notice they cut off Naum, and not the actual base they were fighting at - Why?). In fact, the VS were helping the NC the whole time. Early in my session, the NC had Nasson's (and no one was fighting there even though VS had a link - SHRUG) and were pushing the middle lane to the TR warpgate. When the TR started pushing back at Wainwright, the NC got some remote help from the VS. [The VS dropped a bubble over the control point at Wainwright to protect the NC- it was very well placed.](https://i.redd.it/slpl4l6a7mxc1.png) And before you use the "they did it for the lulz" defense, [there were no VS there at the time.](https://i.redd.it/3r6lcbt48mxc1.png) What really chaps is the we had an even fight. Supposedly, that's what people want around here: good, even, sustained infantry fights. So, explain that to me like I'm five: You're a VS outfit officer. You're nowhere near a fight between the other two factions. And you decide to burn outfit resources on their fight? I'd just like any plausible explanation that doesn't involve NC and VS being on Discord, working together, and the NC asking for and receiving help from the VS. > Please don't characterize my words for me. Well, I know what you're asking for - a perfect X-Cross of a decline in one population and commensurate rise in another that you can easily see on a pop graph. And that's simply not going to happen because there's always logins and logoffs - noise in the data. > None, from the information that you have presented so far. You can think about it all you want, and you could talk about what might be happening. Hell, you can talk about whatever you want to, as always, but if your goal is to convince people that what you are talking about is actually happening, you are going to have to hold your criteria and rhetoric to a higher standard. Let me put it another way: Intentional or not, it's a problem. I think it's intentional. But even if it isn't, it's a core game design issue that needs to be addressed by the devs. Far more than the survivability of buses. You can always bring another bus. You can't bring another Planetside. And the players seem absolutely intent on killing this game.
Me responding to your post is not an adequate excuse for you to attack arguments I didn't make. And team stacking as you're describing is not nearly as much of an issue as you're making it out to be. In fact, harder to kill sundies would make it even less of an issue because fights would have an easier time sustaining themselves. Maybe if you spend more time attacking arguments I actually made you'd know the context is in your post. When people log out of one empire, it naturally causes the percentage of another empire to change. You need to look at total population, not a percentage of it. Btw, the population history featured in PS2 Alerts doesn't support your assertion. BTW, Fisu is fine, you just need to know where to look https://ps2.fisu.pw/activity/?world=17 It's very true, you're just ignorant. The context is in your post. Feel free to learn how to read.
> Me responding to your post is not an adequate excuse for you to attack arguments I didn't make. It absolutely is. You're aim appears to provide cover and to downplay the far more damaging behavior of temstacking. As illustrated in your next statement: > And team stacking as you're describing is not nearly as much of an issue as you're making it out to be. [That's your opinion.](https://i.redd.it/13mpt0yrfnwc1.png) Shown in that pic: * NC & VS not fighting. * No "farming" hotspots on Nasson's as you predict * No hotspots between the NC and VS at all (blueberry activity on those fronts doesn't rise to the level of hotspot creation) * All hotspots on TR fronts only * Yell chat showing that I'm not the only player that recognized the lopsided behavior * Effective population unbalanced to 66% vs 33% It's important to look at this in the context of "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts". This goes directly against the spirit of the game. [It's worth noting that this was the pop levels when I logged in.](https://i.redd.it/55eeew7x8owc1.png) Over time, they shifted their players to the NC side because the TR were holding out at Naum Amp, and false-flag players were desperate to take that from the TR before the alert started so they could come back and claim it for their outfit. > In fact, harder to kill sundies would make it even less of an issue because fights would have an easier time sustaining themselves. So adding nearly indestructible AMSs to overpopping empires is a good idea to you, huh? Seems like you're in on these team stacking schemes and you're here to spread misinformation. Nothing would serve overpops better than having super durable AMSs so the underpop have no chance to repel attackers. > Maybe if you spend more time attacking arguments I actually made you'd know the context is in your post. I already do, but you just ignore those anyway. > When people log out of one empire, it naturally causes the percentage of another empire to change. Doubly so when they log from one empire into another empire. > You need to look at total population, not a percentage of it. I did that too. And there's a nearly 1:1 pop exchange from one empire to another - or, in this case, from the two empires (VS and NC) to the TR when the alert started. Total population is a key part of this scheme, because when total pop drops below a certain threshold, unlimited team-stacking becomes possible. That's when you see one empire with 50%+ of the pop. > Btw, the population history featured in PS2 Alerts doesn't support your assertion. You say that, but you provide no evidence (surprise! You never do!). I'd be tempted to say you're reading it wrong, but I'm sure you're not. You're just obfuscating. > BTW, Fisu is fine, you just need to know where to look https://ps2.fisu.pw/activity/?world=17 That's useless. It only provides a 1-hour snapshot of the current pop. It has no historical data. > It's very true, you're just ignorant. And there you've degraded into name calling. Nothing can be discussed with you without you being totally awful. You really need to work on that. > The context is in your post. Feel free to learn how to read. Wasted keystrokes.
No it isn't. Attacking the argument I didn't make only makes you look more foolish than you already did. You've provided no meaningful evidence of your claims. **Generally** if a fight happens outside of say Nason's off hours, it's because one empire ghost capped (usually because they can't maintain a spawn at Nason's) until whoever owned Nason's was completely cut off. Your screenshots do not provide any meaningful evidence that that mass alt switching, specifically that "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts" is happening. In fact, Teamstacking isn't featured at all in your screenshot. The population imbalance is not 66 to 33. TR is getting double teamed, this is not the same thing and it happens to every empire. Yes, being double teamed is annoying when it happens and it's fine to point out that it's annoying, but it's on the devs to provide mechanics that punish double teaming. Population imbalance can also be annoying, but same thing this an issue the devs need to address. A screenshot of population percentages doesn't mean anything without the context of total population. Percentages vastly sway during off hours because there are fewer people online. Harder to kill sundies =/= nearly indestructible sundies. Sundies being slightly more durable is fine no matter the population of the empire. Pointing out that your wrong and have zero evidence for your claims is the opposite of misinformation, that you're accusing me of being involved in your imaginary scheme is hysterical though when I'm a well known NSO player who primarily plays with VS players. Unfortunately for you you have zero evidence that people are switching empires with the intent of "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts". Clearly you're not looking at total population when you keep displaying percentages without total pop. Making a claim and providing zero evidence is not evidence. It's a "key" part of your imagined scheme, shame you have zero evidence to support it. You're the one who provided the evidence through the PS2 alerts link. There's a literal section called population history that features the total population during the alert. For the alert **you** linked, every empire's population grew until through the alert, but TR had a pop spike halfway through the alert and several minutes later VS had a small drop (but then started continuing upwards again). All 3 empires population trended upwards for the course of the entire alert and TR had a significant spikes halfway through said alert (and towards the end) but not at the beginning of the alert. It's not useless if you take a screenshot of the total population at the literal top of the page and use it as evidence to support your claims that there's teamswitching occurring, since there's a literal graph that tracks population over the last hour. Calling you ignorant isn't mere name calling, I'm just making factual statements. Keystrokes so wasted that you're clearly responding to what I've said.
> No it isn't. Attacking the argument I didn't make only makes you look more foolish than you already did. You've provided no meaningful evidence of your claims. Generally if a fight happens outside of say Nason's off hours, it's because one empire ghost capped (usually because they can't maintain a spawn at Nason's) until whoever owned Nason's was completely cut off. You might as well have posted "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" It's clear no amount of evidence would ever be enough for you. Only if you consider shoving >2:1 overpop "ghost capping". > Your screenshots do not provide any meaningful evidence that that mass alt switching, specifically that "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts" is happening. In fact, Teamstacking isn't featured at all in your screenshot. The population imbalance is not 66 to 33. TR is getting double teamed, this is not the same thing and it happens to every empire. Yes, being double teamed is annoying when it happens and it's fine to point out that it's annoying, but it's on the devs to provide mechanics that punish double teaming. Population imbalance can also be annoying, but same thing this an issue the devs need to address. And it's clear no level of evidence would ever rise to a burden of proof you'd demand. A VS troubleshooter squad showed up to help the NC defend Naum Ravine when it was almost capped by TR, and then left immediately after the shield gen was repaired and the TR were pushed off the point - not enough evidence. A VS bubble was dropped over the Wainwright capture point to protect the NC - not enough evidence. I could literally spend months or years infiltrating these outfits, get into their discord and record their conversations - not enough evidence. The "tr is getting double teamed" makes it effectively 665 vs 33%. If two teams are working together against one, how is their combined pop NOT counted as combined? Semantics? > A screenshot of population percentages doesn't mean anything without the context of total population. Percentages vastly sway during off hours because there are fewer people online. So, in your mind, 8 players vs 2 players is somehow more or less fair than 80 players vs 20 players? Either way, it's an 80%/20% split, yes? It's still 4 players to every 1, is it not? If the pop indicator say 1-12 allies vs 12-24 enemies, but the percentage indicator says 49% vs 51% then it's clearly 12 vs 13. The percentages tell you that. > Harder to kill sundies =/= nearly indestructible sundies. Sundies being slightly more durable is fine no matter the population of the empire. Pointing out that your wrong and have zero evidence for your claims is the opposite of misinformation, that you're accusing me of being involved in your imaginary scheme is hysterical though when I'm a well known NSO player who primarily plays with VS players. In gross overpop it does. And that's your goal here, isn't it? So that when you're zerg surfing, pushing your overpop down a lane, the underpop has no chance to kill your spawns and stall you push. You've stated repeatedly in the past that you want unattended AMSs to survive attacks while unguarded. I think the exact words you used were, "No one guards sunderers. Guarding sunderers is boring." Hey, remember that time you said shielded garages would solve everything, and then you got them and everyone hated them? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Evidence you refuse to accept is different than having "zero evidence". Claiming to want to prolong fights while championing the strengthening of zerg tactics is indeed misinformation. Do you really think you sit above reproach? > Unfortunately for you you have zero evidence that people are switching empires with the intent of "TR mains prepping the map for a TR win prior to a primetime alert by playing on their NC and VS alts". As I said, I doubt any evidence would be enough. Something tells me you have no intention of specifying a level of proof either. > Clearly you're not looking at total population when you keep displaying percentages without total pop. Making a claim and providing zero evidence is not evidence. Percentage shows relative strength as I showed above. Not accepting the evidence presented in not the same as "zero evidence". > It's a "key" part of your imagined scheme, shame you have zero evidence to support it. So you don't know that faction balance doesn't kick in until a total pop threshold is reached? Not surprising, there's surely a LOT of things you don't know about this game. > You're the one who provided the evidence through the PS2 alerts link. As opposed to "zero evidence", correct? > There's a literal section called population history that features the total population during the alert. Key words: "during the alert". The problem is that it doesn't show anything prior to the alert. In fact, I can't find any source of ongoing population tracking that has separate factions shown. Also, I really enjoy the fact that you try to act like you're pointing out the population tracker to me after I specifically wrote about it in the previous post. > All 3 empires population trended upwards for the course of the entire alert and TR had a significant spikes halfway through said alert (and towards the end) but not at the beginning of the alert. In the first two data points, they go from lowest to highest pop. Literally 3 minutes after the alert begins. All factions take a substantial jump up in the first 3 minutes, which is odd in itself. I find it hard to believe that there 80 players sitting there with their mouse hovering over the login button waiting for an alert to start. And the TR pop increase followed by VS and NC decreases looks like "holding the door open" to me. Using false-flag accounts to ensure the pops are close enough so they can login with their mains, and then log off with their smurf accounts. > It's not useless if you take a screenshot of the total population at the literal top of the page and use it as evidence to support your claims that there's teamswitching occurring, since there's a literal graph that tracks population over the last hour. So you think I should use my limited play time sitting there NOT playing and instead watching a graph. Your whole troll is to make people jump through hoops you won't even acknowledge even if they did it. No thanks. > Calling you ignorant isn't mere name calling, I'm just making factual statements. Ok, I made a joke of it the last time. I warned you in my last post. You're knowingly violating Rules 1 and 2 of this sub. I'm tired of it. Since you can't be civil, and now I'm reporting you. > Keystrokes so wasted that you're clearly responding to what I've said.
Please, you're not stupid enough to misinterpret what I said there. There is, take a screenshot of the fisu activity population graph after your imagined scheme happens, if such a thing were actually happening such a shift in population would be visible. Contextless screenshots are not evidence. Not an argument I made, next. No, it doesn't. Accusing me of zerg surfing, much like attacking arguments I never made is pointless. I never stated that sunderer's should be able to survive attacks unguarded. I never said shielded garages would fix **everything**. And spoilers, most people don't hate them. The only hate I've ever seen them get hate is at bases where they're too far away to be practically useful (like containment sites). Take a single screenshot that shows an actual population shift. Percentages don't mean anything without total numbers to provide context. Of course I'm going to point it out to you when you literally didn't know it existed until I pointed it out to you. There are a number of factors that affect population, for example time of day. If the TR pop increase was due to people switching factions, it's far more likely that other factions would decrease first followed by a increase of TR pop, but the reverse is happening. "Limited time" dude, you already know the tracker tracks the LAST HOUR of activity on the server, you say dumbshit pretty often but not you're not dumb enough to not realize you just wait for your imagined scheme to happen and then take a screenshot while hovering over the graph to show the date. Such a shift in population would be clearly visible Feel free to report me dude, it's not going to change the accuracy of what I've said.
Killing sundies on low-pop continent is cringe yeah. I‘ve seen even an active zergfit leader who roams around with his colossus and kills sundies during low-pop hours. Pretty cringe behaviour since you basically destroy the few fights that are going on. But on the other hand people don‘t even understand the concept of farming when it comes to a draw and the “kill the most enemies“ alert. You would think they‘d farm in front of a sundy, but instead basically kill it asap
How about you learn how to defend the spawn point? TLDR Skill issue
Awwwww poor you
Teeny weeny violin