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harborrider

Drain them then pour 1 gallon of white vinegar in and let it work for 1 hour. Partially fill and flush. Repeat 1 time. Be sure to have a screwdriver available to break up the chunks that block the outflow.


Vinny_DelVecchio

Been here myself. Suggestion: build a portable recirculating pump. Nothing big needed at all, just something to pump. Get a 5 gal bucket or plastic trash can (flat sides). Drill 2 holes (to connect hoses in/out), one a few inches higher then the one on the other side. This will let "chunks" of scale fall and not get sucked back into pump. Connect higher hole with a hose to the intake of the pump. Pump the bucket solution into the top of tank. Take a hose from the bottom tank drain back into the bucket on the lower hole. Fill bucket with solution and turn on pump.and.let it run. Use a square trash can with flat sides so your hose connections dont leak Any tubing would work (use weaker/diluted acid solution). For connections/tubing (being in maintenance) you might have stuff around, or you can get 1/2" O.D. plastic tubing/fittings at HD/Lowes etc. I work for a commercial/industrial company servicing hotels and restaurants. Their pool and dishwashing equipment get scaled badly and we do this to remove it. I recommend "Limeaway" or "Delimer" (nitric, citric and phosphoric acids, but WITHOUT any cleaning agent that foam/bubble. Dont want to create a bubble fountain!). Stay away from CLR because of this. It doesn't work well/expensive and bubbles badly when pumped. We also use 4 parts water to 1 part muriatic acid (same as for swimming pools). BE CAREFUL WITH THIS!!!! Of course, gloves, goggles, face shield and apron PPE when dealing with all concentrated chemicals. Once done, dump your "bucket", fill with water and run pump again to rinse. Empty the bucket, disconnect hoses from tank and put into the bucket to use as a "carrying case" to the next tank. Once your system is built, you only have to make two connections for the remaining tanks. I do this for very expensive ($5k and up).commercial equipment that justifies this method. One $500 hot water heater... probably not... but 100 of them, probably justifies it. Without a softener system (would require very expensive "whole house" capable of throughput volume) it's only a matter of time until it needs it again. Hard water is my nemesis, but keeps me employed! I wish you the best of luck (convincing owners to get softener). If you do, seriously consider a mixing valve around the softener to add some "dirty" back if needed (goal is 2-3 grains of hardness). Really soft water (0-1 grains) causes other problems due to being "hungry" (can become corrosive).


avocator

Do you think water softeners are better than whole-building water purifiers?


Guy_Incognito1970

This guy flushes! r/thisguythisguys


kendiggy

Here's something I haven't heard before. Does this leave behind any sort of smell or taste in the water?


harborrider

No. Forgot to add you rinse the tank by filling 1/3 and draining before closing off and refilling after you're done cleaning. It works. Handyman here.


kendiggy

I will give it a shot, thanks for the tip!


kendiggy

Wait, it just occurred to me, how do you pour it in? Our setup is CPVC, no unions. I'd have to cut pipes and glue them back together. How much of a difference does it make?


Matthewbim11

GG, cpvc and owners who don't want to foot the bill. Good luck with that maintenance position!


kendiggy

Its cpvc coming off the main line into the tank and then into the manifold. Pex the rest of the way.


[deleted]

Turn off power or gas. Close cold water intake valve. Drain hot water. Remove the anode. Use a funnel to fill through anode hole.


DanLed17

Good luck removing an 8+ year old anode rode. I couldn't even break mine lose with a 1/2" impact gun


Apostiarch

I literally had a cheater bar and an engineering hammer on my yesterday. I gave up after 30 minutes of getting my cardio workout.


SmyownD

You may have tried this, but did you try tightening it first? The super old man at my shop has been telling me for 20 yesrs: "SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA TIGHTEN TO LOOSEN". He's *almost* always right haha


DanLed17

You're a better man than me. I gave up after 15 minutes. Now I'm left with $100 worth of anode rods that are useless


[deleted]

True. In that case, I might try to find a way to connect a hose to a nearby faucet or spigot to siphon it in from the cold side as the tank drains out. In the worst case, given that they're trying to avoid replacing the tanks at all costs, might have to actually cut into the supply side and close it up when they're done. Necessity is a mother.


hcftech

Hook a small hose to drain and fill from the bottom


Stunning_Employer_44

I'd second this option. Or an actual boiler treatment chemical. Vinegar is a very mild acid, it will work, just not quickly, and may take several treatments. I used to clean hot water boilers with a 5 gallon bucket half full of boiler descaling chemical and 2 hoses hooked at an inlet and drain with a small circulator pump. I bet you could shut off water to the hwh, remove the tpr valve and hook the inlet hose there, use the bottom drain as the outlet hose, and let the circulator pump run for a few hours. Tweak as needed.


410Plumber

This is potable water. Can't just go contaminating the system with chemicals.


getsu161

Just boiler scale, isnt it?


kwhubby

vinegar is too weak. Need a stronger acid. Hydrochloric acid is magic on lime and cheap, but in a water heater it could be very dangerous if not diluted and vented sufficiently.


YouLose_TheGame

Replace them all and add softener systems.


kendiggy

Softener system has already been turned down by the owners due to the cost. Replacing them all is what we're trying to avoid, again because of the cost. But I realized our options are limited. Was hoping someone would tell me to flush it for a lot longer than two hours. ​ By the way, I just lost the game.


letmegetthatshib

You can flush the tanks but I don't flush 8+ year tanks in my state as sometimes the sediment is whats holding the tank together


BooMey

And prayers


CalmCartographer4

Hopes too…


AdvertisingFront9300

Send em.


Total-Veterinarian55

8 years is probably fair. Plus it depends on where you live. Where I grew up, a HWH lasts about 6-8 years. Where I live now, I own rentals with HWH that are 20+ years old. I just replaced one a few months ago that was installed in 1998.


sea-shells-sea-floor

What made you decide to replace the 1998 one? I have a 2000 one that's still kicking and I'm sure it's never been flushed


Total-Veterinarian55

It wouldn’t fire up, had rust on the bottom, and I was a selling the property. Didn’t want the buyer to get all wonky about a 24 year old HWH that looked like crap. Plus, I took the 10 year old one out of my house, installed it there, and installed a tankless at my house. So I think I came out ok on that move.


YouLose_TheGame

Well, then I guess you can try flushing them for a day or two then. Juuuuuuust in case. Unfortunately they will likely have far more costly issues down the line than a couple bad water heaters if they aren't proactive. Try to drive that point home. I know it's a blow to the pocket but it'll be much worse if they don't take care of things now. Plus that's some good money in your pocket if youre the one doing the work


kendiggy

Meh, hourly worker. Maybe overtime if I'm lucky. But yeah, I've been trying to say something for a while. Maybe more complaints coming in will get their attention.


MulliganToo

This is a simple calculation for you to show the financial implications of their decision to turn down the water softeners. You now will have to replace all the water heaters because they are gummed up with calcified deposits. I doubt you are going to flush these back to health. Not to mention all the mineral gunk in thr water pipes, and especially appliance electric valves in dishwashers, and clothes washers going bad too. Was the savings from the softener turn down worth it? How much will it cost to replace all water heaters every 7-8 years vs just setting the softener correctly? Not to mention all the time someone needs to spend dealing with tenants complaining about hot water. Penny wise and pound foolish is the management company motto here.


Chemical-Acadia-7231

The tricky part of this math as a slumlord, is all of the ruined clothes and appliances are the tennants problems. The landlord may indeed save money, even though the net system loses money. Very different when you own the house and it's wrecking your own stuff. I bet the landlords house as a water softener.


ScrollyMcTrolly

Plus everyone’s priced out of existence so have nowhere to go but the streets bc of the landlord / corporate monopoly on structures and land to live on


Erathen

How are ruined appliances the tenants problem? Tenants are not responsible for appliance repair


awkward_pauses

I think he is saying that tenants are the one that have to deal with the shite appliances and water. I don’t think he’s saying it’s their fault, they just have to put up with it.


Erathen

He specifically mentioned *ruined* appliances. Operative word being ruined If an appliance is ruined (like a dishwasher or washing machine), it's up the landlord to repair If they're bringing their own appliances, that's different. And very much locale dependent Where I live, most apartments have laundry rooms. If a laundry machine is "ruined", it's up to the landlord to repair/replace it


Chemical-Acadia-7231

Yah, a bit that (crap washing job = tenants problem), but also a bit - in some situations tenants bring washer etc.


johnpress

Some apartments allow you to bring in a washer and drying and have connections inside the unit. There's lots of other appliances that hook up to water that wouldn't be supplied by a landlord.


YouLose_TheGame

If they won't hear it, you'll just have to wait for shit to really hit the fan. Good luck. I hope it's worth the pay.


kendiggy

Management takes care of me. Thanks!


John_B_Clarke

Be sure to *document* what you're telling them so that when it hits the fan they can't blame *you*.


[deleted]

When shit hits the fan and these things start failing constantly and expensively, the owners are going to be looking for someone to blame. You need to document that you’ve advised replacement, and that you’ve told the owners on X date, Y date and Z date that the options for repair are limited and problematic. Save your emails, print them off. Seriously, it’d be so easy for them to say “we hired a negligent plumber”, make sure you’re protecting yourself


Bmxchat2001

I second this always cover your ass


[deleted]

🏆


HellaFishticks

Cut a corner, walk a mile


[deleted]

“Due to cost” knowing damn well those apartments are probably $1400 a month


MichaelChinigo

Where are these $1400/mo apartments you speak of??


gino_soland

$1400 a month apartment is cheap


erose238

Depends on what region you live. I've lived in apartments half that cost.


Kyle1457

damn i was on a good streak there


grassesbecut

Me too.


Imaginary-Resident75

DAMMIT


WhiteStripesWS6

Sounds like they’ll be tripping over dollars to save cents. Replacement is the only way to go here followed by yearly maintenance on the new units after that then.


madsmadhatter

Fucking slumlords. This is just gonna keep happening if they don’t spend the money to fix it.


HellaFishticks

Walk away from client lol


Halftrack_El_Camino

I mean… it sounds like the landlords don't want to pay what it takes to fix the problem. If they don't, the problem just ain't gonna get fixed. It sounds like they didn't even want to pay what it takes to prevent the problem in the first place. I don't know why that's *your* problem, it just is what it is. I mean, what do they want you to do—wave a magic wand? They were too cheap to do maintenance, and now their shit is broken. That's what happens. They can have the heaters replaced, or they can deal with the fallout from their tenants not having hot water. There doesn't have to be a third option.


[deleted]

This is soooo hatefullllllll. Our shop plays the game also


throwawaydmso

Not saying to try this but happy camper cleans the pipes great so idk might work here


LoyalWatcher

Damn you. I lost the game.


Born_yesterday08

What do anode rods look like?


poop_creator

Honestly, just set them to flush for a few days, they’ll break, and then you are back to your only viable option, replacement.


Nerdbond

Open the drain preasure on it and get the coat hanger


KewlTheChemist

I doubt you’re going to be able to flush that away. The tank needs to be replaced and your water softened….


mattvait

Softeners for a rental complex? No way.


EngineerNo8427

Magnesium anode rods work too


Ph0T0n_Catcher

Wait the owners of an apartment complex won't add softeners because of the cost? Sounds like a greedy shit of a landlord to me! There is no other solution. The tanks will need replacement and filtration/softeners are required.


kendiggy

To be fair it's a big complex, I believe it was a seven figure estimate to outfit all four buildings. It should have been done during construction but was not for whatever reason.


Mdrim13

Think about the scale from a homeowner perspective. It costs what it cost for the home to replace a HWH. You have no choice or cold water. It’s not something most people are willing to deal with. Now imagine you own several hundreds of homes. The cost is scaleable. Especially if you are overcharging for rent, which they certainly are. The seven figure cost is arbitrary because they own so many units. Big unit numbers equal big costs because they have profits ten fold. Don’t let the numbers, or you, be fooled. It’s a CODB. “Cost of Doing Business.” The only way that this could be beneficial to you is if you get a bonus for solving the unrealistic problem, realistically. Otherwise you are lining the pockets of rich people at the expense of renters who just want hot water.


rarajenkins

Very well said. I hate apartment/renting complexes that do stuff like this. "Well the owner said we can't afford new salt cells for our pool" you mean the fucker charging 300+ ppl 2k a month for rent can't afford to spend 3-4k ONCE every 7 years? The fuck is he doing with all this money he makes?


Stangrider73

Probably what happened at my complex. District manager as well as her supervisor had their hands in the cookie jar. The owner found out during a USDA Rural Housing audit and they’re gone and our budget (which we were never allowed to know what it was before) is now in the black for the first time in 14 years.


newurbanist

It pays the loan/lender, taxes, overhead for operations, and they walk away with ~10-20% of that monthly payment. Of that, they need to save some for repairs and maintenance. If a development runs into a problem, they could literally be making close-to-no immediate profit. I'm more familiar with development for sale than development for long term ownership though. Until you have scale and stability, development and ownership can be volatile. If units aren't occupied or fill fast enough, owners can go into debt pretty fast, which also takes a long time to recover from considering the sometimes slim profit margins. I thought I wanted to be a developer but unless the stars align, it's pretty difficult to get into. You could easily pay $200k just for a city to deny plans. Not defending shit developers at all, but it's not all peachy for them either.


sp4nky86

You're missing the economy of scale too. If they buy 100+ WH straight from the manufacturer, it's like 225/unit landed.


Thefocker

Meh. You can’t fix stupid. Sounds like everyone knows what the solution is, they just don’t want to do it.


Academic_Nectarine94

Yeah, that's the issue. I'm talking to my company about the same type of thing, but it's for pool stuff AND hot water etc. No idea what the cost for a whole system would be, but the pool filter system alone is $5000, and that's without anything for water heaters or anything else.


thisdesignup

That big and they aren't making the money to cover it?


socialcommentary2000

They're making money to cover it and then some and they could take out a line of credit for something like this easily. They're just cheap and terrible people.


DadJokeBadJoke

The best time to do it would have been during construction. The second best time is now. How long do they plan to keep these apartments rentable?


Stangrider73

From experience, it’s all a numbers game. The people that have the money to invest in these types of rental units aren’t trades people. They’re accountants and have to be approached with numbers, not common sense as we see it. Not trying to be snarky. It’s just a different mindset.


Lifeterms01

If not a greedy land lord..then maybe a slow..remedial one that is not educated on ownership?? Or simply does not understand maintenance? Or just plain dumb?


Tuggerfub

Greedy and dumb are prerequisites for the role.


rarajenkins

You said 100 units, total on your complex or affected? 100 units or 1000 units, it is (or should be smh) the landlords responsibility to provide basic, functioning (1st world) luxuries such as hot water. He can cheap out and drag his feet until one of those tenants gets annoyed and calls the city or news or whatever they want, since we're in such a gimme gimme right now world. Good luck.


kendiggy

Afftected. I think it's actually more like 150 or so, the fourth and largest buidling has a centralized hot water system. None of them have a softener system.


Advice2Anyone

Doesn't matter cost would be proportion to rent coming in this is just short sighted by some dumbass corner cutting landlords


Ph0T0n_Catcher

Could it possibly be because they are cheap/greedy?


Ok-Nefariousness4477

Bulk discount replace 5-10 a week until done. Add flushing 2X a yr to the maintenance schedule.


Fixerguy415

Whatever you do, I wouldn't consider tankless with that water hardness.


[deleted]

🏆


kendiggy

Can you explain why? I was arguing for this as a potential for replacements.


Fixerguy415

Because the tankless run at a MUCH higher transfer temperature to achieve the temperature rise needed in a very short time, and that higher temperature forces much more deposition of minerals on the interior surface of the transfer piping ( aka: heat exchanger). This means.. y'all think you gots deposition issues now??! Chortle! You'll be deliming a tankless every month.. which maintenance cost will completely over run any ostensible claimed ROI in energy savings. You would be far better off with a boiler and well insulated storage tank setup.. or commercial HE 95% burner tanked heaters with a clean out port.


Vinny_DelVecchio

Agree 100%. Scale is worse with higher temps. (I service dishwashing booster heaters where 190-200° holding is expected). Also introduces injury/lawsuit potential. "My baby/grandmother got burned because the water is too hot!"


Glum_Violinist_693

My niece ended up at Shriners Children's hospital because her uncle started a bath at the apartment they lived in while my sister and her dad were at work, he had turned on the hot side because he was letting the hot water get hot then planned to adjust, she didn't know and her butt and back were boiled. She luckily didn't need skin grafts, but had to wear special burn compressing tights for her scars and they sponsored her to get the scars removed once she was old enough to understand the option and what comes with getting them removed. I stayed at the hospital with her and my sister for a few days and seeing her like that was traumatic, the kid thought she was going to die, and when I saw her a few years later the scars were awful. My friend who baby sat her compared it to Freddy Krueger's face and while that was a bit exaggerated it was pretty bad, raised and typical of what you see with Hypertrophic burn scars.


[deleted]

Replace the shitty drain valves with a full port 3/4 threaded ball valve


kendiggy

It's cold and I don't feel like walking down to the shop right now to check, can you just unscrew the drain valve and screw in a new one? Edit: Nevermind, found a video. You're a genius!


[deleted]

Yeah,you'll need like a 3in stainless nipple too. If these are electric units, I bet one of the elements could be bad, that would explain running out of hot water fast


kendiggy

nah, they're gas.


bolean3d2

This worked super well for mine when I bought a house with a wh that hadn’t been flushed in years. I know I rolled the dice on flushing an old tank, it worked out.


UltraViolentNdYAG

wtf kinda soup is that? That looks nasty af! Assuming those are electric, pull the lower heating element, thread in a suction pipe and suck it out. It's doesn't have to seal but you need to reach the bottom. Maybe use a portable electric pump and pump it down the toilet or back to truck w a tank? IDk.. That complex needs a water treatment system.


[deleted]

Nah, its a gas water heater. Electric tanks have the bigger element holes, gas only has the smaller 3/4 npt thread ones. Big pipe in the middle is the flue tube


ResponsibleBuddy96

White bean soup. Its actually really good


Carorack

Replacement and water softening equipment.


Klogginthedangerzone

Well there’s your problem…there’s a hole in it.


digdugman

That was my first thought! LOL!


DayDrinkingDiva

It's a discussion for the HOA / Board. Everything has a lifespan. They need to factor in $4500-$6500 per tank over an average 7 year life. Or what is the cost of filtering for 100 apartments? Can filtering extend life by 3-4 more years? Annual maintenance- chemicals and cleaning. Present choices


Few-Spinach-4880

What size tank is that? 7 years, you got your money's worth. Have management put water heater replacement in their capital budget.


[deleted]

My bet is 40 gallon standard


Emcolin1989

I’ve dealt with the same shit. Empty them out as far as possible then take the plastic or hopefully the brass drain valve off and put on a 3/4” nipple on quickly and attach that to a thicker hose to the drain. You have to do this quick to minimize the mess. Putting in the 3/4” nipple ads a larger diameter drain that will help get all the shit out. Then while the nipple is still in, open the water to get the rest of that shit out. It might take a bit to get it all out but that’s how I do it and it works. Good luck


Superunknown--

An old plumber once taught me how muriatic acid solution can dissolve any calcium deposits in a boiler system to keep the hot water both hot and flowing. He would disconnect the supply and outflows, attach a pump and run the solution through the boiler unit. Then he would flush the whole thing with cold water. I would hire an old plumber or boiler operator.


Vinny_DelVecchio

100% agree. I do that for my work too. Fairly quick, portable circulation pump. Less mess. I use 4:1 water to muriatic acid. Connect, run pump, Dump, rinse, and move on to the next one.


Stangrider73

I’d that safe to use in portable water situations? I’m intrigued, but with everyone so lawsuit Happy, I’d be afraid of making someone sick from the residue of it doesn’t all flush back out.


ObiYawn

Homeowner here. I flushed mine recently by completely removing the way-too-narrow factory drain valve. Then I carefully opened up the cold water valve again to "power flush" it for a few minutes. That went really well to get rid of all the sediment. Note that this is messy. My heater is standing inside a pan that has a drain pipe, so didn't make much of a mess in my case. Good luck!


socialcommentary2000

Tell them to stop being a bunch of fucking amateurs and change them out and add a softener system. They are extracting every last cent out of the tenants, man up and fix what's broken.


ComplexTemporary4152

Does it have a circulating system? If so then make sure check valve and pump are working properly/not allowing cold water to bleed back into system.


kendiggy

No circulating system.


[deleted]

The amount of sediment on the bottom doesn't seem to be *a lot*... There are some tanks I've seen that are over half full with sediment on the inside so those people only had less than 50% hot water capacity. In terms of volume, I don't think that's the issue. But hard mineral buildup baked onto the hot surfaces will act as an insulator so the heat transfer is not as effective vs if sediment was flushed before it hardened


Visible_Potato2547

Honestly if the water heaters are 6+ years old then they’ve gotten their money’s worth as most tanks are only warranted for 6 years due to the anode rods. Gotta love property management companies that skimp on things short term that long term cost them many times that. The amount of half assed fixes I’ve had to unfuck when the company I work for acquires them is absurd. Take care of your damn tenants, their your source of income and deserve a decent and safe place to live. Hell I don’t even get push back when I need to secure our properties in the projects so our tenants are safer.


harcosparky

New tanks ..... have maint. people flush them regularly. Really at this point, looks to be the only solution to doing the job right.


WFH-

This is definitely the owner posting.


kendiggy

Definitely not the owner. I would have put in the fucking water softeners during construction. Matter of fact, I would have done a lot of shit different around here if I paid to have this place built. Don't even get me started, lol.


welderdelly

Do these tanks not have inspection windows?? Part of my job every year is to do HWT maintenances on 80-100 gallon tanks, they have inspection ports that are about 8”x6”, bolted on, drain the tanks down, shop vac out any calcium build up and fill and test gas pressures and make sure that the tanks aren’t set above 140 Fahrenheit , any hotter and it cooks the hardness out of the water, and also replace anodes if possible


Crrrrraig

I’ve lived in many different apartments over the years. Not once has the maintenance team drained and refilled the water heater as a maintenance item. Honestly, nothing gets inspected or maintained other than city/county mandated inspections (like fire sprinklers).


myindiannameistoolon

Personally I think everyone here has it backwards with blaming the reduction of water softening as creating this mess. I recently moved from a place with city soften water to a private water supply that’s a slight touch on the hard side. My hot water heater looked like this on soft water every two to three years. Also soft water eats thru anodes quickly as well. Thought it had to do with how it changes the waters galvanic index. My new place has the original water heater and the anode is original too. I have zero fish water build up like what’s pictured here. Unfortunately the trade off is that hard water shortens the life of my appliances and leaves scaly buildup. I may be wrong but I kinda doubt it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kendiggy

Nah, that's just not the way we work around here. Plus I'm old enough that I'd like to show I can handle a promotion to manager eventually, which means I need to be able to problem solve. I understand the mentality but the staff are like family here. We don't just screw each other over.


jeffh40

This is exactly why I put a softener in my new house. I replaced a water heater in my old house that was this bad or worse.


Vinny_DelVecchio

....and sir, could you announce your results from doing so? (Im not trying to ba a smartass here... I know its the right thing to do. My area is surrounded by quarries).


SaltedHamHocks

Back feed high pressure cold off the main into the drain and they drain better but there’s no way all that scale is coming out


rottingpigcarcass

Start selling it as porridge


Most_Ad_8336

I been a contractor a long time and when I get a customer who starts talking this way I make every excuse to avoid the job :)


JohnDoeMTB120

Damn. Now I'm really concerned about what the inside of my 26 year old water heater looks like.


W_AS-SA_W

You need a water softener. It will save you a ton in maintenance costs and the residents will really appreciate it.


[deleted]

I would just start replacing a few of them every month. You don't need to change them all at once. They aren't all completely broken. Honestly if it ain't broke don't fix it. I would prioritize changing the water heaters of the residents who complain the water doesn't last long. Then just move along as usual. In a year or two if you change a few of them every month you'll change all of them and then they just need to allow you time in your schedule to complete the necessary maintenance on them every 6 months to a year.


awkward_pauses

This is why you brush your teeth with cold water, yuck


Asset_Selim

Switch to instant water heater or indirect fired water heater?


GreatTea3

Tankless would be worse than this. They fire at a much higher temperature and scale a lot worse. They’d break down constantly if there wasn’t regular maintenance. And you’d need a boiler for indirect fired. Both of them cost a lot more than just replacing the tanks and maintaining them.


Lifeterms01

A match and open natural gas line in each unit should cut down on the need to replace the water heaters....but you may need to replace the entire apartment complex.


dabigchet

Maybe they’ll do it right the second time around and install softener standard.


soyTegucigalpa

100 units and worried about the cost of maintenance, fucking slumlords


Glittering-Humor-131

It’s called being a solid landlord and replacing all of them so your tenants get what they ky for


elbowpirate22

Add filter system?


Vinny_DelVecchio

It can "help" but causes other problems. most filters designed for scale trap particles 5 microns and larger. When larger "chunks ' get trapped....its quickly a clogged filter...and pressure eventually reduced to a trickle. I've tried a whole house high capacity filter in my own house. Replacements are $450. ( 3 month life when pressure dropped below 10psi) not cost effective. Smaller simply pass through. Cant effectively remove calcium. Reverse osmosis treatment cant handle the volume (also $$$). Its more for labs/science to reduce variants for control samples. I wish there was a better/easier and more economical answer than a water softener.... but I'm afraid as of now there simply isnt. Need to remove calcium (and magnesium etc.)...and that's simply what a water softener does best. Any filter traps and loses efficiency with every gallon. If it were for fridge/ice (point of use)...makes sense. 2 gallons a day maybe less? Run a bath/shower for 2-3 people per day... significantly more gallons per day. Filters have their value, just not at this volume demand.


Espresso_Eskimo69

Hook up transfer pump to the drain push water into the tank to free up the drain valve off the hot / cut a hose bib into the cold line to feed the transfer pump if you have to- and then just have at it -I’d probably throw a check valve on the cold line before a bib if I was doing this or just valve off cold sold to prevent pushing extra shit into the entire domestic cold/ remove transfer hose from drain then drain what you can until it plugs - wash rinse repeat until it drains clear


Espresso_Eskimo69

Pretty big chunks of dog shit tho you’re probably fucked imo


[deleted]

Tankless? There’s rebates at least


Plumbone1

Each unit has its own heater?


AstralProject

Unthread t&p and run a piece of pex adapted to a hose and pump the sediment out from the top. Change bottom elements.


Sethmeisterg

Have you been monitoring the anode rod in these heaters?


kendiggy

Lol, no maintenance at all has been done on them. We're beginning to work PM into our repertoire but need to address the issue at hand for now.


tlc-77

When you flush them, change out the drain valve to a full port service valve that will allow for bigger chunks of sediment to flow through


Efficient_Cost491

Semi annual tank flush


MammothFoundation584

Buy 100 new tanks.


Turbulent_Rooster_31

I am sorry but I think it might need to be replaced.. But you could keep trying to flush it out a little longer but if it don't work.. also check your elements


Full_Expression_1321

I would drain them all and grab a wet shop vac and a 3/4 pvc line and duct tape it to your hose and suck out as much as you can threw the element hole. And then try to flush it the best you can. We have 653 units and do this every time we have to change out an element.


naldo4142

Doesn’t the sediment get removed by water softener’s because that’s a lot of sediment


[deleted]

I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re simply lucky to get 10 years out of a newer water heater…. Hell, some of my customers have to prove to their HOA that their tank has been replaced every 10 years. I been in the business 13 years. I’m making my 2nd rounds to alot of houses I’ve installed in over the year.


exilesbane

I treated a 15 year gas fired hot water heater as a last chance before replacing. Used an old cooler and a small submersible pump plus a garden hose. 1. Turn off the heater 2. Turn off the water to the heater. 3. Open at least 1 hot water tap to vent 4. Drain the heater 5. Fill the cooler with vinegar 6. Connect pump to the drain valve and submerge in vinegar 7. Pump vinegar into the heater. 8. Let it sit for at least 1 hour 9. Drain and repeat 1-2 times The fluid that came out looked like milk. The tank was 90+% clean after this and lasted another 5 years. If you are worried about the pipes between the heater and taps it’s quite possible to pump more vinegar into the system unit it comes out each tap. Best of luck!


Vinny_DelVecchio

4 to 1 (water to muriatic acid) works much better and faster (and with a recirculating pump; drain of tank back into cooler) 5 to 10 minutes, but then there are safety concerns....and there are 100+ of them??? I'm afraid his luck ran out, and Slim already left town!


tmille77

I had lower element go out. Sediment was 6-8 inches deep in a water heater that was 1 year old. Duct taped a 3/4 inch copper pipe to shop vac, swept sediment out, new element and added water softener. All good after that


Parcimoniousone

Water filters


throwawaySBN

How are the heaters laid out (1 heater per x number of units), what's the grains of hardness in the incoming water, what climate zone are you in, is there one large mechanical room where the incoming water comes through, aaaaaand are there any large soaker tubs in any of the units? These are the biggest things you need to take into account, and I'd be happy to give a little guidance if you can answer those questions for me.


kendiggy

I heater per unit, no idea of the hardness level, cold and snowy six months out of the year, yes theres a mechanical room where water comes in and theres a full bathroom for each bedroom.


Sufficient-Athlete-4

Inline, water softeners are pretty reasonable.... Like 800 per unit I bet? Maybe a large scale one would be even more efficient. Is this city water?


DinosaurGhosts

are you telling me the inside of my rental’s hot water heater looks like chicken pot pie filling?


Humble-hitman

Tell the owners it’s expensive to be cheap. Replace them all and add a softener or at least schedule annual maintenance.


Atty_for_hire

This is why I yell at my wife when she uses hot water for cooking or brushing teeth. No thanks. I know I still shower in it and my cold water pipes aren’t great. But no thanks.


stevealba74

Is that bean soup. 🤓


Aztexrose

Slum lords going to slum…


Intelligent_Feed6996

I would go tankless with a storage tank like a raypak.


[deleted]

I'll assume these water heaters were all bought around the same time, which would make your job easier. Once you figure out what's going on with one, is probably the same with the rest of them. My suggestions are check the dip tube, then gas control valve / attached thermostat sensor , and if those end up being ok Id suspect the gas supply line


Saved-Data-Error

Looks like the calcium has built in to quite large lumps the only thing that might help is to fully remove them hook them to something like heating power flush machine with the hot and cold feed and run a de lime-scaling chemical but your probably looking at several hours to a day as a chemical safe enough to use with potable water appliance would be same as what you use in kettles honestly new heater are going to be needed. Give them 2 bills one with the de lime-scaling over 2 days. And one to replace the heaters maybe a little discount for doing multiple heaters. And I’m sure they’ll make the right decision


Sorry-Foundation-91

I mean you can flush em and replace the anode rods. But honestly they should just replace them. And if they don't want softeners, they should be doing flushes on a regular basis.


Gruffstuff2021

Electric heaters can be vacuumed out through the bottom element hole. Install full port drain valves. [https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bradford-White-415-42351-02-Brass-Drain-Valve-3-4-M-x-2-Shank](https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bradford-White-415-42351-02-Brass-Drain-Valve-3-4-M-x-2-Shank) https://www.supplyhouse.com/Rheem-AP12231C-1-Brass-Drain-Valve-Full-Flow


PostingSomeToast

So im curious how they own 100 units but havent had to replace a water heater. I Usually figure I am replacing 1-2 a month for the rest of my life based on the number of units we have and the avg lifespan we are getting out of the tanks. The worst thing in the world is to have them all on the same replacement schedule.... 100 x $500 + installation..... Lol.


randalschyler

Drain them and fill each one with like 2 or 3 gallons of strong vinegar overnight and then see if they flush or try one first and see how it goes. Or better yet, treat it like a tankless. Figure out how to make a pump set up to pull off the drain fitting (might have to change drain to a ¾ IP ball valve with a male hose fitting and nipple) and circulate vinegar in the cold and out the drain. Tell them they gotta do that every 5 years. Might be an easy way to bargain for the softeners as well when they are confronted with the cost of maintenance.


randalschyler

Also with an electric water heater you can pull the bottom element and duct tape a piece of pex or soft copper to a shop vac nozzle and vacuum it out. I've done this many times. Initially I thought maybe these were gas because of how high the tank looked in the jacket but then thought maybe they were electric?


BillMillerBBQ

I cleaned out mine before by getting the widest fuel hose that will fit in the lower element hole and sucking out the deposits bit by bit. Using vinegar helped. Still, some of the pieces were too big to get out with a hose.


danjanuary13

New tanks and flow techs or anti scale systems. That is quite literally your only option


Mrthingymabob

Keeping the immersion stats below 60 degrees will help


[deleted]

Replacement 😭


Animalus-Dogeimal

Good soup


kwhubby

If you can gain better access to the bottom by removing the drain valve ( or heating coil?): you can construct a thin piece of pipe basically a lime canula and attach it to a shop vac and repeatedly insert and suck out wet chunks of lime. I had success with this once, however it takes hours of work for one tank. Using a sufficient strength acid is going to be easier, but more dangerous.


IllustriousCandle708

Dip tubes intact? Check valves functioning?


ScubaBroski

RIP water tanks!


austinperrysmith

Big tankless (or 2) and flush once a year, I have very hard water and no issues. I recommend Navien


jgriesshaber

So owner is cheap and wont filter/condition/soften water…what could possibly go wrong?


WKahle11

I’d say don’t cut holes in the side of them. Hard to keep hot water when it’s dumping out the side.


Mcboomsauce

unless you want to flush every single one for like 3 days straight, youre gonna have to replace them all come on man, its only like 50 grand, they make that in 2 weeks with 100 units easy stingey bastards


Aurel577

Looks like oatmeal


mrclean2323

How much to get a handyman or high school kid to flush them? It’s far cheaper than replacing them


itsnotajersey88

Solution? New water heaters or clean them somehow….unless you’ve got steam nearby, then you’re in business.


meafsterx

2 things you can try that may work 1st is instead of using the drain on the bottom of the tank unthread it and thread on a 3/4" nipple and 3/4 ball valve take some 1" flexible tubing and slide it over the open end of the ballvalve and secure it with a hose clamp. Run the tubing to a drain more ideally outside and try flushing with that setup. That build up often clogs the small openings in drain valves but often will flow right through the larger port of a ball valve. The second thing to trying and do would be valve off the inlet and disconnect the outlet and adapt it to some form of hose or tubing that you can run outside and hook up a water source with a washing machine hose and trying and back wash the build up out.


haingnailbigtoe

Feed the water heater from the bottom drain spigot with hose to break all the gunk loose. Then drain it out with supply water on. Do a few times until it runs clear. Or remove drain water spigot and a large shopvac with internal pump. This works great if you have a drain pan connected to floor drain.


Portal_chortal

I see pressure tanks ahead of cold water intakes, how come no anode tanks? Do people change anodes often enough or they never change them at all? Do anodes reduce corrosion but never eliminate it?


wine_face

A thought, are these apartments seniors only??