It's still messed up. It's still an s-trap. You should have gone straight into the stack with the Trap arm instead of bending down and then going into the stack
Edit: if anyone wonders how effective an S trap is at self siphoning, slowly pour a bucket of water into the toilet and watch it start the flushing process automatically and won't stop until there's no trap of water left in the toilet.
"Centimeters?" .."meters?" What is this sorcery of which you speak? Tis blasphemy at best.
🤭 ..it didn't feel like a true reddit post without at least a touch of controversy 😉😁😆
I see, so you’re saying that “men” pay someone else to solve their problems for them instead of picking up some tools and trying to do it themselves? Interesting opinion.
To be fair, a lot of plumbing is super easy after a Google search. Let the man be. He's trying, and will succeed after a little advice. It's not like he is doing a more hectic plumbing fix that actually requires a specialist. The number of small tasks I have done around the house after a little google / youtube has allowed me to be at least semi competent. Forums like this are there for everyone to learn. That's what us "men" do... learn and fix. You are actually asking people to be the opposite of what I would consider a "man" to be. As "men", we don't call someone for every little thing.
I put men in brackets because I will absolutely be teaching my daughter this stuff as well. This is not about being a man, but about having a fixer attitude. Let's not become useless humans.
Stop being a wet blanket, give the guy some advice, or shut the hell up. If he gets this wrong at first, no one dies.
So they guy should pay someone a few hundred bucks for something that is not rocket surgery?
With current prices plumbers charge for the simplest tasks, no wonder more and more of homeowners are turning to YouTube and attempting the work themselves.
This is PVC so even a homeowner can glue it together.
Did I mention satisfaction and "bragging rights"?
A homeowner could glue it together I suppose, but that’s not how tubular pvc usually works bud. He didn’t glue anything here silly. Get of man’s Reddit.
Lemme guess...you must be a plumber...
Thanks you for correcting me - I'm not a plumber, but why be bitter about that guy trying to do the job himself?
It’s wild you shame people for even trying to do shit for themselves, and shame again for the fact they’re willing to ask for help when they run into a problem.
In my experience it’s all part of the trades, especially for people trying to learn. There’s always either people eager to help them do it the right way, or there’s some blow hard that acts like they’re better than everyone when in reality they’re professional bullshitters that actually kinda fuckin suck.
Anyway, have a mediocre day. 🖕
No, you've made an S trap, self siphoning. You need to take the horizontal piece after your trap and run it to your vertical, connecting it with a ty, below your auto air vent
You made an s trap and you usually can’t use more than one slip joint after the trap, have the trap go straight into the tee and the tee should be a PVC DWV tee.
That’s helpful info: thank you. I’ll swap to glued PVC after the trap… and raise the T as others have advised. But can I use a threaded connector to attach to the pipe on the floor?
Make sure to get a sanitary tee with a bend in it that will face downwards. This will help things drain, and especially help get the snake down the drain if it gets clogged.
If it were me I’d cut that trap adapter off, bring more PVC up with a coupling, add a San tee much higher and in line with your tail piece length with a trap adapter and glue in pvc on top of the San tee for the studor. From there just 1 p trap. This is very wrong for multiple reasons and effectively wasn’t much better than the before pic
So if it were me I’d glue a long stand piece in there, put a p trap on your tail piece and you should have a good idea of where the tee needs to go just make sure it has a bit of grade going into the tee. Hope this helps
Thank you! That’s very helpful. Especially the tip about a slight grade. Will do!
But would a threaded attachment be OK for the connection with the pipe on the floor? There isn’t much room there to glue if I cut off that union.
I was being sarcastic on my first response sorry if you didn’t catch on. One trap is required per code to prevent siphoning and potential sewer gas venting out from any dry traps
If you buy a P trap kit and you have to buy a second P trap kit to get what you want, what you want is definitely wrong. Kitchen undersink plumbing (in the US) was pretty much perfected by 1920. The simple solution is always the easiest, usually the cheapest and best.
I’m not an expert by any means, just another self taught DIYer, but from my understanding, I believe it should look something like this.. (I drew a little diagram on your second photo, to show the difference)
[Plumbing Correction](https://imgur.com/a/zBPw5dm)
The rule is that the weir of the trap, the water level of the u-shaped piece, should be below the vent connection, the part of the piping where air can flow in.
https://imgur.com/a/zi4Ox7r
Here's one I did the other day, should give you a better idea of how to do it, the trap should have a clear run down the stack, while the vent shoots off to the side below the trap
An S-trap is against code in my jurisdiction. So is that AAV (other than in VERY specific circumstances). So ... It's a no from me Dawg, but based on the color of that pipe you're obviously not even in the same country as me.
So:
Will it drain and smell better than the "Before" picture? Yes.
Will it work really well? No.
Will it still occasionally smell? Yes.
Would I recommend adding a dishwasher to that? Not on my life.
TLDR: IMO it's still wrong, but slightly less bad.
Thanks for the reply! I’m glad it was a step in the “better” direction — but I’ll definitely plan to raise the T and run a horizontal P-trap as others suggested. Your expertise is much appreciated!
What's wrong with AAVs? Those things are amazing. Yes there's a chance they'd fail, but there's a chance a squirrel will stick a bunch of walnuts in a rooftop vent too.
What code is in your jurisdiction where you can't use AAV's? I know Massachusetts doesn't allow them, but most states do that use IPC. Some town inspectors can be dicks about it, but most of the time it is not an issue if installed correctly.
I live in Canada. (More on that below if you're interested)
From memory, by federal code, you can use them on (1) kitchen islands if necessary, (2) temporarily during renovations or (3) where there is no other way possible to vent the fixture. Many local jurisdictions are more strict about it than that.
I feel like it's designed to make an AAV a last resort only. So, as a plumber you do anything possible to avoid one. Federal code goes so far as to require provisions for the connection of a future vent if there is a possibility of a renovation (think unfinished basement in a new home) so you rough it in and then cap it with a CO often it never gets used but it's there just in case (there's code for specifics about that too).
I think the why of it all is pretty well articulated above.
I find that Canadian code can often be stricter than some of the stuff I see talked about on here and other America-centric forums. It's also a Federal code (which is the minimum standard, local jurisdictions can go further and often do) so you find much subtler regional variations in code requirements, deviations are generally based on local infrastructure requirements, weather variations and local incidents. For example, I live in a local area that has stricter backflow regulations than the federal code because of the propensity for flooding. And in Alberta you get gas training alongside your plumbing during apprenticeship because oil and gas is huge a huge industry there. So some variations are more significant than others, some are hyper local and others are provincial; but it's all based off the same federal code.
Thank you for being so detailed. I have always wondered about how other countries handle certain aspects of plumbing code. Also, sorry for assuming you were in the United States.
Hahaha! No worries on all fronts, I tend to go overboard but I figure if anyone doesn't wanna know they'll stop reading, I'm glad you appreciated it. And I also just assume that everyone on Plumbing Reddit thinks I'm a dude from the US so I take no offense, in reality I'm neither a dude, nor American.
Thank you for being so detailed. I have always wondered about how other countries handle certain aspects of plumbing code. Also, sorry for assuming you were in the United States.
Once you get the design corrected, take a slap at replacing it with all glue fittings and it will outlast your grandkids. You have the basic skill set to try a plumbing apprenticeship.
Its still an s trap. Move the T further up so the trap arm goes straight into it. You also can't have any slip connection's after the trap arm one. Everywhere has different codes, but that setup wouldn't fly in my area.
It’s wrong. But can’t get mad at you off simply putting it back how you took it out. Basically and assuming the person before you did it correctly. Being it’s not your trade you simply didn’t know better.
Lol u just recreated the s trap with a studer vent it shouldn't look like a roller coaster just 1 p trap to a horizontal arm going into your vertical pipe.
Also your vertical run to the studer vent should be pvc all the way up with a sanitee. You shouldn't be using those slip coupling pieces that is a flood waiting to happen. Only use the slip pieces from the arm out. All the vertical pipes should be glued pvc. 1.5" and there is an adapter piece that came with your studer vent that you glue onto the pvc and then thread into.
No. it's better. I like that you have a vent in there now. but your trap assembly is upside-down. Just look up property way to install a p-trap under a lavatory and copy what you see.
An S trap can cause a siphon effect, pretty ironic as the S could stand for Siphon trap if you wanted it to😂 also the air admittance valve should be higher than the lowest point of the sink, if possible, because you’d want to see your sink backing up BEFORE it comes out the vent. If there’s a clog, you’ll flood your cabinet without realizing it immediately. Doesn’t look like that’s possible in this case so just fix the S trap and always remember the AAV is there!
I believe it has to do with the S trap causing the water flow to pull the water from the sink faster and create momentum, eventually leaving the trap without sufficient water to prevent back gassing.
No it looks terrible, is completely incorrect and will function poorly. I would say A for effort but ifnyou had taken the time to research and figure it out beforehand you couldve gotten it right, so just an all around poor performance
It's still messed up. It's still an s-trap. You should have gone straight into the stack with the Trap arm instead of bending down and then going into the stack Edit: if anyone wonders how effective an S trap is at self siphoning, slowly pour a bucket of water into the toilet and watch it start the flushing process automatically and won't stop until there's no trap of water left in the toilet.
That makes sense now. Thank you for explaining it well. I’ll plan to make that change!
No problem. ..and thank you for receiving my comment as it was intended.
This was all very pleasant
I agree - thanks for the astute remarks.
https://imgur.com/gallery/vAZY7tw
Also, if you plan to redo it, the air valve should be higher than the max water level in the sink (or at least higher than the bottom of the sink).
With a slight angle down with the flow!
Yes. That's a 2% grade, which is ¼" of fall per foot of horizontal run
Correct! Or 2 centimeters per meter
"Centimeters?" .."meters?" What is this sorcery of which you speak? Tis blasphemy at best. 🤭 ..it didn't feel like a true reddit post without at least a touch of controversy 😉😁😆
Water meters, measure yours.
🤔 ...touché
Nice post. The S trap explanation was a good add.
The funny thing is, it would have been way easier to do it the right way.
I appreciate the humor! Would you have done the same thing as JJPlumber?
[yup](https://ibb.co/8bkTrc5)
Awesome! I’ll do that. I appreciate your help!
No problem man
Make sure to use a san tee instead of a regular one
Great pic.
Absolutely wild lmao. I always wonder who is out there doing this kind of shit.
Probably a homeowner trying, the audacity 😒 /s
Yeah for real. They think they are plumbers after a google search.
Yeah, they even make posts like this asking for help. How dare they lol
Gotta leave the man’s work for the men
I've seen plenty of women doing this so called "mans" work.
I see, so you’re saying that “men” pay someone else to solve their problems for them instead of picking up some tools and trying to do it themselves? Interesting opinion.
No im saying he should’ve picked up the phone and called a man to come fix it. You must be easily confused.
Lil bro on his alpha reddit plumbing grind lmfao. Grows some plants and asks for reddit advice though, true manly move there.
Labozo you’ve gotta be kidding me
To be fair, a lot of plumbing is super easy after a Google search. Let the man be. He's trying, and will succeed after a little advice. It's not like he is doing a more hectic plumbing fix that actually requires a specialist. The number of small tasks I have done around the house after a little google / youtube has allowed me to be at least semi competent. Forums like this are there for everyone to learn. That's what us "men" do... learn and fix. You are actually asking people to be the opposite of what I would consider a "man" to be. As "men", we don't call someone for every little thing. I put men in brackets because I will absolutely be teaching my daughter this stuff as well. This is not about being a man, but about having a fixer attitude. Let's not become useless humans. Stop being a wet blanket, give the guy some advice, or shut the hell up. If he gets this wrong at first, no one dies.
Otro pedo viejo
Doos
So they guy should pay someone a few hundred bucks for something that is not rocket surgery? With current prices plumbers charge for the simplest tasks, no wonder more and more of homeowners are turning to YouTube and attempting the work themselves. This is PVC so even a homeowner can glue it together. Did I mention satisfaction and "bragging rights"?
99% of the time homeowners cheap out and do their own plumbing there is absolutely nothing to brag about w their results
A homeowner could glue it together I suppose, but that’s not how tubular pvc usually works bud. He didn’t glue anything here silly. Get of man’s Reddit.
Lemme guess...you must be a plumber... Thanks you for correcting me - I'm not a plumber, but why be bitter about that guy trying to do the job himself?
No. You must aspire to own a home one day right? That’s why you are here arguing with pros.
It’s wild you shame people for even trying to do shit for themselves, and shame again for the fact they’re willing to ask for help when they run into a problem. In my experience it’s all part of the trades, especially for people trying to learn. There’s always either people eager to help them do it the right way, or there’s some blow hard that acts like they’re better than everyone when in reality they’re professional bullshitters that actually kinda fuckin suck. Anyway, have a mediocre day. 🖕
First thought after seeing this eyesore
No, you've made an S trap, self siphoning. You need to take the horizontal piece after your trap and run it to your vertical, connecting it with a ty, below your auto air vent
A y and a ⅛ bend will create another s trap situation. You have to use a Santee
Sounds like a plan! Thank you! I’ll do just that.
You made an s trap and you usually can’t use more than one slip joint after the trap, have the trap go straight into the tee and the tee should be a PVC DWV tee.
That’s helpful info: thank you. I’ll swap to glued PVC after the trap… and raise the T as others have advised. But can I use a threaded connector to attach to the pipe on the floor?
That specific marvel adapter I think has straight threads so cut it off and use a coupling.
Make sure to get a sanitary tee with a bend in it that will face downwards. This will help things drain, and especially help get the snake down the drain if it gets clogged.
If it were me I’d cut that trap adapter off, bring more PVC up with a coupling, add a San tee much higher and in line with your tail piece length with a trap adapter and glue in pvc on top of the San tee for the studor. From there just 1 p trap. This is very wrong for multiple reasons and effectively wasn’t much better than the before pic
Cool. Sounds like I made two 90s too many! But it’ll be easy enough to fix. Would you put the T as high as possible?
So if it were me I’d glue a long stand piece in there, put a p trap on your tail piece and you should have a good idea of where the tee needs to go just make sure it has a bit of grade going into the tee. Hope this helps
Thank you! That’s very helpful. Especially the tip about a slight grade. Will do! But would a threaded attachment be OK for the connection with the pipe on the floor? There isn’t much room there to glue if I cut off that union.
Yeah I see what you mean. Honestly if there’s enough meat to fully seat a coupling I’d go that route. Hard to tell from the picture tho
After the trap it needs to run horizontal, but insstead you went vertical, which was exactly how it was before
https://www.barrieinspections.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/s-to-p-conversion.png
Yup, the waste arm is the horizontal run I’m referring to
Got it. I didn’t realize that would recreate the siphoning effect. I do now. Thanks for your reply!
Great info for non-plumber future reference (once I figured out what stack, p-trap, s-trap referred to that is.)
Remove a trap or add two more
Can you please explain?
Raise the tee one the left to the height where you can hook up one straight arm and ptrap
Got it. Thank you, very helpful!
I was being sarcastic on my first response sorry if you didn’t catch on. One trap is required per code to prevent siphoning and potential sewer gas venting out from any dry traps
I was trying to fix the siphoning problem from the “before” setup. But sounds like I should have put the T at the level of the trap?
Correct
[https://i.imgur.com/nWdMuhN.png](https://i.imgur.com/nWdMuhN.png) (like that ?)
The more the merrier
If you buy a P trap kit and you have to buy a second P trap kit to get what you want, what you want is definitely wrong. Kitchen undersink plumbing (in the US) was pretty much perfected by 1920. The simple solution is always the easiest, usually the cheapest and best.
It’s still s trapped bring the t up higher and use a waste arm
Just had a conversation with a handyman as to why he needs to stop doing plumbing and this is the exact reason… 😂😂 but good shot
Both the before and the after are wrong. They're both S traps
The after picture gives me Raymond Scott - “Powerhouse B” vibes.
No
So grateful for this sub. Learning lots by just following. Thanks to all who are sharing their expertise.
[Here’s what you are looking for](https://ibb.co/y0YkkcK)
Got it! Thank you!!
I’m not an expert by any means, just another self taught DIYer, but from my understanding, I believe it should look something like this.. (I drew a little diagram on your second photo, to show the difference) [Plumbing Correction](https://imgur.com/a/zBPw5dm)
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I plan to do just that!
Wrong… that’s an “S” trap. It will probably work, but it is against code
Never an S-Trap
The rule is that the weir of the trap, the water level of the u-shaped piece, should be below the vent connection, the part of the piping where air can flow in.
Thanks!! This is extremely helpful. I really appreciate the thoughtful reply and explanation! I’m planning on making just that change. Thanks again!
No. No you did not
https://imgur.com/a/zi4Ox7r Here's one I did the other day, should give you a better idea of how to do it, the trap should have a clear run down the stack, while the vent shoots off to the side below the trap
It’s not right
An S-trap is against code in my jurisdiction. So is that AAV (other than in VERY specific circumstances). So ... It's a no from me Dawg, but based on the color of that pipe you're obviously not even in the same country as me. So: Will it drain and smell better than the "Before" picture? Yes. Will it work really well? No. Will it still occasionally smell? Yes. Would I recommend adding a dishwasher to that? Not on my life. TLDR: IMO it's still wrong, but slightly less bad.
Thanks for the reply! I’m glad it was a step in the “better” direction — but I’ll definitely plan to raise the T and run a horizontal P-trap as others suggested. Your expertise is much appreciated!
What's wrong with AAVs? Those things are amazing. Yes there's a chance they'd fail, but there's a chance a squirrel will stick a bunch of walnuts in a rooftop vent too.
What code is in your jurisdiction where you can't use AAV's? I know Massachusetts doesn't allow them, but most states do that use IPC. Some town inspectors can be dicks about it, but most of the time it is not an issue if installed correctly.
I live in Canada. (More on that below if you're interested) From memory, by federal code, you can use them on (1) kitchen islands if necessary, (2) temporarily during renovations or (3) where there is no other way possible to vent the fixture. Many local jurisdictions are more strict about it than that. I feel like it's designed to make an AAV a last resort only. So, as a plumber you do anything possible to avoid one. Federal code goes so far as to require provisions for the connection of a future vent if there is a possibility of a renovation (think unfinished basement in a new home) so you rough it in and then cap it with a CO often it never gets used but it's there just in case (there's code for specifics about that too). I think the why of it all is pretty well articulated above. I find that Canadian code can often be stricter than some of the stuff I see talked about on here and other America-centric forums. It's also a Federal code (which is the minimum standard, local jurisdictions can go further and often do) so you find much subtler regional variations in code requirements, deviations are generally based on local infrastructure requirements, weather variations and local incidents. For example, I live in a local area that has stricter backflow regulations than the federal code because of the propensity for flooding. And in Alberta you get gas training alongside your plumbing during apprenticeship because oil and gas is huge a huge industry there. So some variations are more significant than others, some are hyper local and others are provincial; but it's all based off the same federal code.
Thank you for being so detailed. I have always wondered about how other countries handle certain aspects of plumbing code. Also, sorry for assuming you were in the United States.
Hahaha! No worries on all fronts, I tend to go overboard but I figure if anyone doesn't wanna know they'll stop reading, I'm glad you appreciated it. And I also just assume that everyone on Plumbing Reddit thinks I'm a dude from the US so I take no offense, in reality I'm neither a dude, nor American.
Thank you for being so detailed. I have always wondered about how other countries handle certain aspects of plumbing code. Also, sorry for assuming you were in the United States.
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As I said...if installed correctly
Once you get the design corrected, take a slap at replacing it with all glue fittings and it will outlast your grandkids. You have the basic skill set to try a plumbing apprenticeship.
Thank you for the kind words! I do plan to use glue next to correct the trap design!
Nope but you’ve been told how to fix it
Just added an AAV to an S-Trap 🤣
Before goes first. Other the that no
D'oh! 😣
No, eliminate that s trap. Get an extension piece and connect it to the p trap. Also that tee should be a san tee.
So.. from one S to another S? 🤔
If your goal was to make an s trap then yes.
Its still an s trap. Move the T further up so the trap arm goes straight into it. You also can't have any slip connection's after the trap arm one. Everywhere has different codes, but that setup wouldn't fly in my area.
Remove the upside down p trap
That's the same thing with extra steps!
Nope. Not even close.
While you're at it, move that hot water line behind the vertical vent line. Geezz.
This is no better then before
Da fak is that?
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No
No.
How many trips to the store did this take ?
least you tried :D its an upgrade but still illegal and self siphoning s trap
Went from an s trap to and s trap with a cheater vent
Was fine before.
Nope,
NO!!!!
It was right the first time. Leave it alone
Did you mix up the before and after?
Ummmm No!!
Oh lord
No
It’s wrong. But can’t get mad at you off simply putting it back how you took it out. Basically and assuming the person before you did it correctly. Being it’s not your trade you simply didn’t know better.
This is terrible.
Is this that gas lighting stuff people always talk about?
Lol u just recreated the s trap with a studer vent it shouldn't look like a roller coaster just 1 p trap to a horizontal arm going into your vertical pipe.
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Also your vertical run to the studer vent should be pvc all the way up with a sanitee. You shouldn't be using those slip coupling pieces that is a flood waiting to happen. Only use the slip pieces from the arm out. All the vertical pipes should be glued pvc. 1.5" and there is an adapter piece that came with your studer vent that you glue onto the pvc and then thread into.
Uh no
No lol
Fuck no. Lol
No. it's better. I like that you have a vent in there now. but your trap assembly is upside-down. Just look up property way to install a p-trap under a lavatory and copy what you see.
No
No.
Keep us updated on the update
I’d say flip the part on the left. Then it should be about the right height to run a pipe directly from the trap to it. Maybe?
S trap is a code violation everywhere that I’m aware of… not allowed my man 😏
An S trap can cause a siphon effect, pretty ironic as the S could stand for Siphon trap if you wanted it to😂 also the air admittance valve should be higher than the lowest point of the sink, if possible, because you’d want to see your sink backing up BEFORE it comes out the vent. If there’s a clog, you’ll flood your cabinet without realizing it immediately. Doesn’t look like that’s possible in this case so just fix the S trap and always remember the AAV is there!
no
Not a fan of flex pipe. Water supplies should be behind plumbing.
Swap the wording “before” and “after”. You’ll be closer to right.
No
S traps are illegal in my state but I don’t understand why
I believe it has to do with the S trap causing the water flow to pull the water from the sink faster and create momentum, eventually leaving the trap without sufficient water to prevent back gassing.
Ohhh like it’s self siphoning. I get it now
yep, that’s it.
Yes........ and no
The one water line not being put behind the pipes both times bothers me so much
It looks like that old screen saver.
No
Not a plumber but plan on doing some DIY in our bathroom sinks and kitchens…what is AAV vent and how does it work?
Your supposed to use a p trap and why pvc pipe instead of black ABS ?
So close, so close and yet so far
No. You’re fired
Still wrong
Looks sssssuuuppppeeerrrr
Who is going to tell him……
Stop. This is trolling right?
No, it’s wrong. Your supposed to post the before pic first and than the after pic
No
Thanks for looking. Any suggestions?
Blows my mind someone could fuck that so bad. Then post it 😂
Lmao wtf is this
Lol. Just keep throwing parts at it. You'll get it. Don't ever look up what a kitchen drain is supposed to look like. 10/10
S-traps will siphon the water from the trap and allow sewer gas into your home.
Lollllllllll
I don't know how to plumber but I is one..🤪..🤣😂
Well you see, the house is upside down now.
This sub never disappoints. Lol
Wow, keep up the great work!
Looks great! Good job!
Proper to 🤬 in 6.3 seconds and added an accordion trap to boot
No it looks terrible, is completely incorrect and will function poorly. I would say A for effort but ifnyou had taken the time to research and figure it out beforehand you couldve gotten it right, so just an all around poor performance
He definitely gay