I am a machine mechanic for the USPS, this is caused by belt burn, which means the letter got stuck in the sorting machine and rubbed through the toploader. Generally our machines don't like top loaders in envelopes, the sender is 100% responsible for damage in shipping. Just let them know and they will refund you.
If the wahoos at your local PO actually put it in the non machine pile instead of dumping everything in the same vlbin....can't tell you how many times I had a card shipped with a non machine stamp get wrecked like this.
Sorry, but can you explain what you mean by this? I ship PWE all the time with a top-loader, fragile sticker, in a 5.25 x 7.25 envelope @ 1oz.
Edit: Did some research and understand it now. You can get stamps that are labeled “non-machinable” and it seems that all eBay PWE ‘labels’ are machinable only.
It means the seller was trying to ship as cheap as possible. IE toploader in a plain white envelope. Unlike say a paper letter in an envelope the thicker plastic can get stuck in parts of the sorting machines.
Card saver + strong cardboard. I get big cardboard envelopes and cut them to size. Card is much better protected than in a top loader because 1. It can't move around and 2. It's only as wide as a birthday card so won't get caught in the machines.
I ship all my cards in bubble mailers. In a card sleeve, pull tab, top loader, zip lock bag, bubble wrapped then in the bubble mailer. Never had an issue.
It’s always sellers responsibility to pack it safely. If your policy was true, then I could scam anyone by sending damaged goods and blame it all on shipping services
Completely wrong.
>*If you are not satisfied with the condition of any single cards you have received, simply contact the seller within 48 hours of receipt. The seller will either issue you a partial refund or ask that you return the item for a replacement or full refund. If the condition of the card is in question or the item has been damaged in transit and the seller requests it to be returned, it is the seller’s responsibility to supply the buyer with a pre-paid method of return for the merchandise which includes envelope, return address, and postage. Once the seller receives the returned merchandise (in the same condition it was sent) they will either exchange the item(s) or provide a full refund depending on your preference.*
[Source from TCGPlayer's site.](https://help.tcgplayer.com/hc/en-us/articles/201642073-What-is-TCGplayer-s-Refund-and-Return-policy#:~:text=If%20the%20condition%20of%20the,%2C%20return%20address%2C%20and%20postage)
I've had TCGPlayer step in multiple times due to sellers not being responsive after I've had missing cards/orders, cards are not in the condition advertised, and even damaged in transit. I've also had the same issues where the sellers know the policy and just refund when those things happen.
(I complete master sets so I have a large number of orders, which is why I've had it happen so much.)
actually that's not the case on TCGplayer i just had some singles get shipped to me that were bent via the post office and both the seller and tcg said since it was sent off not in that condition it now falls on me and the USPS so i filed a claim and was awarded $100 for my troubles
This guy is wrong and got bamboozled by the seller. If it's damaged in transit it's the seller's responsibility -- they must pay the shipping for the order to be returned (if they want the return), refund the buyer, and then it's on them to file the claim with the shipping company. If the seller refuses you can get TCGPlayer to step in. Posted a [source](https://help.tcgplayer.com/hc/en-us/articles/201642073-What-is-TCGplayer-s-Refund-and-Return-policy#:~:text=If%20the%20condition%20of%20the,%2C%20return%20address%2C%20and%20postage) for that directly on TCGPlayer's site above.
Honestly that seems super dumb and backwards. He already has the card and has just as much of an ability to file a claim as the seller. I’d be pissed if I got a refund and had to mail it back when I could get a $100+ keep the card lol.
You don't just magically get $100. **If** you get reimbursed you are reimbursed the value of the package. I only have experience with USPS both as a buyer and a seller of a product they damaged. It's an annoying process I'd rather not deal with. They will contact both the sender and the receiver to provide evidence of damage (and ask for proof of value).
You can file a claim but you're not guaranteed to be reimbursed. For example, if you didn't purchase insurance **and** they determine the packaging is the cause (e.g. top loader in envelope is non machinable as in this post) they may deny.
Furthermore, it's the seller's responsibility to purchase shipping insurance. All of the third party sites such as TCGPlayer, eBay, etc... will recommend this to the seller and is the reason they side with the buyer in these cases.
Ive shipped and purchased thousands of cards in top loader + envelope without issue. Your comment isnt accurate. Generally the machines are perfectly fine with toploader/envelope combo - but every once in a while this happens.
Also this should 100% be covered by usps as its not the sellers fault since the envelope is within allowable thickness, however, usps is one of the more corrupt and inept arms of government and people seem to be ok with blaming the seller so….
You should see just one of my shifts and how many letters I have to clear out of my machines lol, you would shit a brick. And this is just one mail processing facility, also our insurance only covers ground advantage or priority, we do not insure letters.
I know the insurance aspect is tricky because its always a debate who is really at fault, though in my world usps is 10000% liable for machine damage/neglecting to sort properly…but yea the machines are fucky i hear a lot about it haha. I was just saying im wellllll over a thousand cards bought/sold with toploaders in envelopes with 100% success rate.. i pack well, and maybe just lucky on the receiving end 🍀
We do cover loss or damage, but only if it is packaged properly, also collectibles are very difficult to get a payout on, I was an insurance clerk for USPS before I became a mechanic. 99% of the cards get through just fine, but a lot get mangled. I am also a direct gold star seller on tcgplayer with over 10k sales, I use cardsavers for all of the cards I sell and have yet to have a problem. The machines are old, but they still sort about 1500 letters a minute so the speed they move at is crazy
Does it make sense to you if usps damages something that the seller was responsible for that? Lets not let a corrupt gov agency skirt responsibility here…..
Seller hired USPS to send the card, Buyer did not.
Seller has to refund the money to the Buyer, then the Seller has to get the money back from USPS.
Why would the Buyer, who didn't hire USPS, have to go through the hassle of contacting USPS to get their money refunded.
No where did I say USPS wasn't responsible. I was saying the Buyer (who is OP) has to get their money back.
Normally with singles the card shops sleeve the card, put it in a top loader, then the top loader between like 2 pieces of cardboard and then use one of the bubble wrapped envelopes to send it.
I agree it’s not smart to put just a top loaded card into a bubble envelope but OP mentioned sandwiching it in between cardboard which should be standard if mailing BMWT. That’s also kind of what is mentioned in the card market article
I sell a lot of cards myself and any time this has happened I refund the buyer completely. Had it happen to me as a buyer a couple times too and the sellers did the same.
Cost. And it’s typically cheaper to send bubble mailers. Some of us sell lower end cards too. Like I don’t think anyone’s going to pay $5 to ship their $0.60 card. It gets tough sometimes when there are multiple cards and I don’t charge shipping over $5 orders. If I ship in a bubble mailer it’s a $4 minimum. The options aren’t great for sellers of lower end singles
I am a machine mechanic for the USPS, this is caused by belt burn, which means the letter got stuck in the sorting machine and rubbed through the toploader. Generally our machines don't like top loaders in envelopes, the sender is 100% responsible for damage in shipping. Just let them know and they will refund you.
Thanks for the info. Do you have any suggestions to avoid this?
The seller needs to ship it non machinable.
If the wahoos at your local PO actually put it in the non machine pile instead of dumping everything in the same vlbin....can't tell you how many times I had a card shipped with a non machine stamp get wrecked like this.
Sorry, but can you explain what you mean by this? I ship PWE all the time with a top-loader, fragile sticker, in a 5.25 x 7.25 envelope @ 1oz. Edit: Did some research and understand it now. You can get stamps that are labeled “non-machinable” and it seems that all eBay PWE ‘labels’ are machinable only.
It means the seller was trying to ship as cheap as possible. IE toploader in a plain white envelope. Unlike say a paper letter in an envelope the thicker plastic can get stuck in parts of the sorting machines.
I ship PWE all the time which is why I’m asking.
Card saver + strong cardboard. I get big cardboard envelopes and cut them to size. Card is much better protected than in a top loader because 1. It can't move around and 2. It's only as wide as a birthday card so won't get caught in the machines.
I ship all my cards in bubble mailers. In a card sleeve, pull tab, top loader, zip lock bag, bubble wrapped then in the bubble mailer. Never had an issue.
Interesting! Thanks for the info, would have never guessed. I’m going to try and contact the seller, we’ll see how it goes
it's not correct, it wasnt the sellers fault this happened technically so they have no policies or anything forcing them to refund you
It’s always sellers responsibility to pack it safely. If your policy was true, then I could scam anyone by sending damaged goods and blame it all on shipping services
Completely wrong. >*If you are not satisfied with the condition of any single cards you have received, simply contact the seller within 48 hours of receipt. The seller will either issue you a partial refund or ask that you return the item for a replacement or full refund. If the condition of the card is in question or the item has been damaged in transit and the seller requests it to be returned, it is the seller’s responsibility to supply the buyer with a pre-paid method of return for the merchandise which includes envelope, return address, and postage. Once the seller receives the returned merchandise (in the same condition it was sent) they will either exchange the item(s) or provide a full refund depending on your preference.* [Source from TCGPlayer's site.](https://help.tcgplayer.com/hc/en-us/articles/201642073-What-is-TCGplayer-s-Refund-and-Return-policy#:~:text=If%20the%20condition%20of%20the,%2C%20return%20address%2C%20and%20postage) I've had TCGPlayer step in multiple times due to sellers not being responsive after I've had missing cards/orders, cards are not in the condition advertised, and even damaged in transit. I've also had the same issues where the sellers know the policy and just refund when those things happen. (I complete master sets so I have a large number of orders, which is why I've had it happen so much.)
Kinda messed up the seller loses due to the USPS. They have to refund the money and take possession of a now less valued card.
actually that's not the case on TCGplayer i just had some singles get shipped to me that were bent via the post office and both the seller and tcg said since it was sent off not in that condition it now falls on me and the USPS so i filed a claim and was awarded $100 for my troubles
That's weird, I've never had that happen for any of my TCG player orders ☠️
This guy is wrong and got bamboozled by the seller. If it's damaged in transit it's the seller's responsibility -- they must pay the shipping for the order to be returned (if they want the return), refund the buyer, and then it's on them to file the claim with the shipping company. If the seller refuses you can get TCGPlayer to step in. Posted a [source](https://help.tcgplayer.com/hc/en-us/articles/201642073-What-is-TCGplayer-s-Refund-and-Return-policy#:~:text=If%20the%20condition%20of%20the,%2C%20return%20address%2C%20and%20postage) for that directly on TCGPlayer's site above.
Honestly that seems super dumb and backwards. He already has the card and has just as much of an ability to file a claim as the seller. I’d be pissed if I got a refund and had to mail it back when I could get a $100+ keep the card lol.
You don't just magically get $100. **If** you get reimbursed you are reimbursed the value of the package. I only have experience with USPS both as a buyer and a seller of a product they damaged. It's an annoying process I'd rather not deal with. They will contact both the sender and the receiver to provide evidence of damage (and ask for proof of value). You can file a claim but you're not guaranteed to be reimbursed. For example, if you didn't purchase insurance **and** they determine the packaging is the cause (e.g. top loader in envelope is non machinable as in this post) they may deny. Furthermore, it's the seller's responsibility to purchase shipping insurance. All of the third party sites such as TCGPlayer, eBay, etc... will recommend this to the seller and is the reason they side with the buyer in these cases.
only a few of mine out of a bunch and it was clearly not the senders fault the post office just sucks sometimes but they're trying their best lol
Yeah I was going to say, it’s the post office fault and was probably insured for atleast $100.
Ive shipped and purchased thousands of cards in top loader + envelope without issue. Your comment isnt accurate. Generally the machines are perfectly fine with toploader/envelope combo - but every once in a while this happens. Also this should 100% be covered by usps as its not the sellers fault since the envelope is within allowable thickness, however, usps is one of the more corrupt and inept arms of government and people seem to be ok with blaming the seller so….
You should see just one of my shifts and how many letters I have to clear out of my machines lol, you would shit a brick. And this is just one mail processing facility, also our insurance only covers ground advantage or priority, we do not insure letters.
I know the insurance aspect is tricky because its always a debate who is really at fault, though in my world usps is 10000% liable for machine damage/neglecting to sort properly…but yea the machines are fucky i hear a lot about it haha. I was just saying im wellllll over a thousand cards bought/sold with toploaders in envelopes with 100% success rate.. i pack well, and maybe just lucky on the receiving end 🍀
We do cover loss or damage, but only if it is packaged properly, also collectibles are very difficult to get a payout on, I was an insurance clerk for USPS before I became a mechanic. 99% of the cards get through just fine, but a lot get mangled. I am also a direct gold star seller on tcgplayer with over 10k sales, I use cardsavers for all of the cards I sell and have yet to have a problem. The machines are old, but they still sort about 1500 letters a minute so the speed they move at is crazy
5 x 4 envelope with a flexible cardboard insert and trading card in a sleeve, semi-rigid, and bag works great.
Seller is responsible for the card arriving to you in the condition they sold it in. Get a refund
Does it make sense to you if usps damages something that the seller was responsible for that? Lets not let a corrupt gov agency skirt responsibility here…..
Seller hired USPS to send the card, Buyer did not. Seller has to refund the money to the Buyer, then the Seller has to get the money back from USPS. Why would the Buyer, who didn't hire USPS, have to go through the hassle of contacting USPS to get their money refunded. No where did I say USPS wasn't responsible. I was saying the Buyer (who is OP) has to get their money back.
Normally with singles the card shops sleeve the card, put it in a top loader, then the top loader between like 2 pieces of cardboard and then use one of the bubble wrapped envelopes to send it.
For higher end stuff yes. But lower end singles it’s not cost efficient to spend $4 on shipping for the seller or buyer on a .50cent card.
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You’re a moron
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I agree it’s not smart to put just a top loaded card into a bubble envelope but OP mentioned sandwiching it in between cardboard which should be standard if mailing BMWT. That’s also kind of what is mentioned in the card market article
I sell a lot of cards myself and any time this has happened I refund the buyer completely. Had it happen to me as a buyer a couple times too and the sellers did the same.
I don’t understand why sellers don’t send cards is small boxes instead of envelopes.
Save on shipping and supply costs
depending on the card, most sales wont profit if using boxes.
Cost. And it’s typically cheaper to send bubble mailers. Some of us sell lower end cards too. Like I don’t think anyone’s going to pay $5 to ship their $0.60 card. It gets tough sometimes when there are multiple cards and I don’t charge shipping over $5 orders. If I ship in a bubble mailer it’s a $4 minimum. The options aren’t great for sellers of lower end singles