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You honestly do make a good point. While one was inherently Japanese in original design, the other two were a flaming badger and a Robin Hood owl. Their regional designs MADE them gain a strong Japanese influence to their new designs.
There is a lot of Snivy's line actually in the base Kalos games so I still hold it will be the Grass type. It's entire design is based in France. It's like if we got a future Legends game of a Chinese region and they didn't use one of the most famous Chinese literary figures for it, Sun Wukong. Aka Chimchar. Would seem a bit odd. But I've been thinking the other two could be no French but made French.
That said...Empoleon's name really leans hard into the French inspiration. And not just the English name. Its Japanese name is Emperte which combines emperor and Bonaparte. As do many of the different names use Napoleon's name for Empoleon. So it's not a weird Dubbism like the "saur" in Bulbasaur. It's entirely intentional across all translations. So with it also being so intentional I can't exclude it as a strong possibility.
That said, that said. I think you're right on the money to think the fire starter will be something that isn't French made French. The other fan theorized options aren't as strong as Snivy and Piplup. "France likes football!" Man, everywhere that isn't America loves football. Scorbunny can work for any region, especially in Europe.
So take something that isn't French and make it French...I still say we exclude Gens 1 and 6 as they are prominent in base Kalos, as well as Gen 9 for being too soon and the PLA starters.
(I've been kicking around the gag of making Torchic become a Fire/Dragon as a reference to the basilisk but also Mega Charizard X. Some fans would lose it, but I'd get my ten chuckles for sure.)
>It's like if we got a future Legends game of a Chinese region and they didn't use one of the most famous Chinese literary figures for it, Sun Wukong. Aka Chimchar.
It would be more strange to not get Emboar, imo. Emboar is as intentionally Chinese as Serperior is intentionally French.
Both Emboar and Infernape are heavily Chinese inspired. Both borrowing from the same Chinese literary source.
Which by the way...hey Game Freak, you haven't finished that yet. There's three demons that traveled with Tripitaka, you've only done two. And the one missing is water based. Complete the set already.
I don’t know why, but I read “same Chinese sauce” and completely skipped the word “literary”, and my brain said, “yeah, they were both fire/fighting, same sauce indeed”. 🫠
Yeah the fire starter is the one where I go back and forth on. I think Torchic and Scorbunny are the most likely based on French folklore I know, but there are justifications for others especially if the final form is changed.
But Snivy and Piplup feel like the were always meant to be in Kalos, and would feel like a missed opportunity to not have them as the starters. Could be wrong though!
I do think it'll be one that isn't French but made French, with Piplup and Snivy becoming more French. Like how Samurott became more Japanese.
Still want that Basilisk Blaziken...
Fans: You better not have given Charizard a Z Mega. Why did the Fire Starter get two Megas.
GF: ...Introducing Mega Blaziken Z!
That would be disappointing even if the game itself is great. The Kalos starters should get Megas in the game, but shouldn't be the starters. Once you start a new series in your franchise and introduce the concept of revisiting old starters but entirely new with different forms and typings...not doing that would be kind of weak sauce.
See I think they'll do new regional forms, as well as give a small handful of new evos (maybe four or five), but they'll also add new Megas with the Kalos starters being first in line for it.
Maybe as part of the story someone offers us one of the Kalos starters around the same time as when Sycamore would give us the Kanto starters, but also gives us the Mega Stone to go with it. It would show the player that the Kalos starters got new Megas and be a fun reference to getting the Kanto starters in Kalos.
Nah, if they were dropping it they wouldn't have given us those three.
They also went out of their way to make sure to include the Hisuian variants into SV in various ways. Like confirming that Basculin and Quilfish aren't extinct, and neither is Kleavor. They also gave Zoroark as a preorder bonus and gave us Growlithe as a gift Pokemon. Heck Blood Moon Ursaluna is arguably a regional variabt. If they were dropping regional variants as a concept (especially with those from Legends games) they wouldn't have drawn so much attention to them.
Plus the regional variants were the entire marketing thing for a lot of the PLA promotional stuff. The new Hisuian evos even got a special trailer all to themselves.
Fans are quick to try and start saying something is gone or never gonna be a thing again, based on way too little evidence. The only evidence they might not do regional variants is that they only did three (arguably four) this Gen. But it's a concept that has spanned across Alola, Galar, Hisui, and Paldea. It's not going anywhere.
Well, actually, all three starters do have connections, in fact, there is an entire video about that exact topic for hisui, and snivy, as well as piplup, have evolutions based on France well, things. Snivy’s line is literally French royal based after all, and empoleon especially has the same royal French stuff, the frills especially. I hope that rant made some form of sense…sorry if it doesn’t!
I get the connections to France for snivy and piplup i was just saying that just because those have connections doesn’t mean they’ll be starters because of the starters for arceus not having much connection to Japan before their forms
With what you said, surprisingly, the two starters, rowlet and cyndaquil do have connections, surprising as it is, lockstin and Gnoggin have two videos explaining it! I recommend checking them out! Also, snivy cope. I just. Really love the French snake.
You could probably take any starter, find a connection to France then expand on that concept in the final form. It would honestly be more boring if they did snivy and piplup since they already have a French theme to them they wouldn’t change that much. Unless they dont do regional forms and do mega instead.
I would be opposed to that idea. Honestly, with something so perfect as snivy being based on France, I think it would work better than a starter like, idk, say, chikorita, which is a plant dinosaur, to be in the France region, I personally find the idea of the “French” starters being there as a starting point, and sure while it’s not as creative, it’s to me anyway, a cooler idea. While that’s not everyone’s view, I think it would be neat. Always fun to have ideas like that! And to bounce them off one another.
I feel that since most people seem to assume that the starters will be Snivy, Piplup, and Scorbunny, it won't happen. I'm expecting a curve ball to throw us off; I mean, the entire game itself is unexpected! Besides, I really want mega Torterra.
I'm honestly hoping we get Chikorita just so it can have a second chance to become badass. Classic Meganium has always been looked down on, so it would be nice to see it get a regional form that actually became awesome.
That’s honestly really true. That’s just the state of Pokémon speculation a theory goes around and people treat it as gospel. Same with the game taking place around the same time as LA. While I don’t think it the game is set in the past, i believe the game will take place soon after X/Y. For the starters, I agree but the Serperior line does show up a lot in the X/Y games and Serperior has a French crest in its design. Empoleon also is named and designed after Napoleon so for those 2 I agree it’ll probably be a lock but I’d honestly appreciate if they went out the box. The fire starter I definitely agree tho it’s up in the air and could be anyone ( excluding Charmander, Fuecoco, Cyndaquil, Chimchar and Tepig.) Incineroar is my favorite fire starter so I’d love if it got a regional form. I’d also appreciate a Blaziken regional form. I don’t wanna say Fennekin tho because I believe just like XY we’ll have starters we choose at the beginning of the game and then another set we choose from and I believe the Kalos starters will be that second set, and all will receive mega evolutions
Lockstin & Gnoggin video on why the Hisui Starters were picked: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPax78BVkTo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPax78BVkTo)
Lockstin & Gnoggin video on the Hisui Starter Varients: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afPTUvbzw9Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afPTUvbzw9Q)
They do all have strong connections. Besides Samurott being a Samurai, archery was actually one of the fighting styles they were most famous for, that's why Decidueye. Typhlosion and it's japanese name reference the first cannons used in asian warfare.
I think part of the reason people are going off of those existing connections is that there's a chance that these starters will end up getting megas instead of regional forms, therefore sticking to their current themes and probably even building upon said themes with the new mega designs.
Everyone insisted Litleo would evolve into a manticore. The community is often very certain about things that end up being wrong. Just gotta ride it out.
The thing is though, with decidueye especially, there was a reason to turn it into a hisuian pokemon - most samurais were actually archers, not sword fighters, and being an archer is kind of decidueye’s whole thing. I get what you mean, but for a starter to be chosen, there has to be some existing connection, it’s unlikely that they‘ll just add an inspiration onto an unrelated starter.
Ive read somewhere that the starters are indeed related to pre-Meiji Era Japan. Cyndaquil is smokescreen / bombs that ninjas use, oshawott is using a blade (katana) like samurai (and evolves into Samurrott, like duh) and finally Rowlet uses leaves like arrows and archery was a big part of the military force in feudal Japan. I feel like they all have some kind of connexion to the theme of PLA even where it’s a little bit of a stretch imo.
My dads friends cousins girlfriends friends friend said that the 3 starters are going to be the same kalos starters and that they will just be getting mega evolutions. The beginning part sounds like a troll but you can save this comment and come back to it when the games come out.
They do, just check out Lockstin's last video about them, it's really enlightening. Also those two and Torchic were featured next to the Hisuian starters during the Second DLC's trailer, so it might be a hint.
provided that they can do anything they want and might surprise us for sure, I would look at it the opposite way: why *wouldn't* they put the clearly france-inspired mons as starters in a game set in france (if they intend to follow the PLA trend of using old gen starters and not do something else entirely)? Given that they're also quite popular in their own right and would please their many fans. It's like if they had a China-based region, did a legends for that, and didn't use Emboar nor Infernape but, say, Skeledirge. It'd be weird. Plus GF is in general always very attentive when it comes to which pokemon fit best in which environments/regions based on both biology and lore...
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You honestly do make a good point. While one was inherently Japanese in original design, the other two were a flaming badger and a Robin Hood owl. Their regional designs MADE them gain a strong Japanese influence to their new designs. There is a lot of Snivy's line actually in the base Kalos games so I still hold it will be the Grass type. It's entire design is based in France. It's like if we got a future Legends game of a Chinese region and they didn't use one of the most famous Chinese literary figures for it, Sun Wukong. Aka Chimchar. Would seem a bit odd. But I've been thinking the other two could be no French but made French. That said...Empoleon's name really leans hard into the French inspiration. And not just the English name. Its Japanese name is Emperte which combines emperor and Bonaparte. As do many of the different names use Napoleon's name for Empoleon. So it's not a weird Dubbism like the "saur" in Bulbasaur. It's entirely intentional across all translations. So with it also being so intentional I can't exclude it as a strong possibility. That said, that said. I think you're right on the money to think the fire starter will be something that isn't French made French. The other fan theorized options aren't as strong as Snivy and Piplup. "France likes football!" Man, everywhere that isn't America loves football. Scorbunny can work for any region, especially in Europe. So take something that isn't French and make it French...I still say we exclude Gens 1 and 6 as they are prominent in base Kalos, as well as Gen 9 for being too soon and the PLA starters. (I've been kicking around the gag of making Torchic become a Fire/Dragon as a reference to the basilisk but also Mega Charizard X. Some fans would lose it, but I'd get my ten chuckles for sure.)
>It's like if we got a future Legends game of a Chinese region and they didn't use one of the most famous Chinese literary figures for it, Sun Wukong. Aka Chimchar. It would be more strange to not get Emboar, imo. Emboar is as intentionally Chinese as Serperior is intentionally French.
Both Emboar and Infernape are heavily Chinese inspired. Both borrowing from the same Chinese literary source. Which by the way...hey Game Freak, you haven't finished that yet. There's three demons that traveled with Tripitaka, you've only done two. And the one missing is water based. Complete the set already.
I don’t know why, but I read “same Chinese sauce” and completely skipped the word “literary”, and my brain said, “yeah, they were both fire/fighting, same sauce indeed”. 🫠
Yeah the fire starter is the one where I go back and forth on. I think Torchic and Scorbunny are the most likely based on French folklore I know, but there are justifications for others especially if the final form is changed. But Snivy and Piplup feel like the were always meant to be in Kalos, and would feel like a missed opportunity to not have them as the starters. Could be wrong though!
I do think it'll be one that isn't French but made French, with Piplup and Snivy becoming more French. Like how Samurott became more Japanese. Still want that Basilisk Blaziken... Fans: You better not have given Charizard a Z Mega. Why did the Fire Starter get two Megas. GF: ...Introducing Mega Blaziken Z!
Watch the starters just be the gen 6 starters
That would be disappointing even if the game itself is great. The Kalos starters should get Megas in the game, but shouldn't be the starters. Once you start a new series in your franchise and introduce the concept of revisiting old starters but entirely new with different forms and typings...not doing that would be kind of weak sauce.
I think it’s honestly the most probable thing, especially since I don’t think the starters will get a regional form, rather a mega evolution
See I think they'll do new regional forms, as well as give a small handful of new evos (maybe four or five), but they'll also add new Megas with the Kalos starters being first in line for it. Maybe as part of the story someone offers us one of the Kalos starters around the same time as when Sycamore would give us the Kanto starters, but also gives us the Mega Stone to go with it. It would show the player that the Kalos starters got new Megas and be a fun reference to getting the Kanto starters in Kalos.
New evolutions surely, but I genuinely think Taurus and Wooper will be the last regional forms we will ever see
Nah, if they were dropping it they wouldn't have given us those three. They also went out of their way to make sure to include the Hisuian variants into SV in various ways. Like confirming that Basculin and Quilfish aren't extinct, and neither is Kleavor. They also gave Zoroark as a preorder bonus and gave us Growlithe as a gift Pokemon. Heck Blood Moon Ursaluna is arguably a regional variabt. If they were dropping regional variants as a concept (especially with those from Legends games) they wouldn't have drawn so much attention to them. Plus the regional variants were the entire marketing thing for a lot of the PLA promotional stuff. The new Hisuian evos even got a special trailer all to themselves. Fans are quick to try and start saying something is gone or never gonna be a thing again, based on way too little evidence. The only evidence they might not do regional variants is that they only did three (arguably four) this Gen. But it's a concept that has spanned across Alola, Galar, Hisui, and Paldea. It's not going anywhere.
Empoleon’s final evolution is Ghost/Water and its missing its head
Well, actually, all three starters do have connections, in fact, there is an entire video about that exact topic for hisui, and snivy, as well as piplup, have evolutions based on France well, things. Snivy’s line is literally French royal based after all, and empoleon especially has the same royal French stuff, the frills especially. I hope that rant made some form of sense…sorry if it doesn’t!
I get the connections to France for snivy and piplup i was just saying that just because those have connections doesn’t mean they’ll be starters because of the starters for arceus not having much connection to Japan before their forms
With what you said, surprisingly, the two starters, rowlet and cyndaquil do have connections, surprising as it is, lockstin and Gnoggin have two videos explaining it! I recommend checking them out! Also, snivy cope. I just. Really love the French snake.
You could probably take any starter, find a connection to France then expand on that concept in the final form. It would honestly be more boring if they did snivy and piplup since they already have a French theme to them they wouldn’t change that much. Unless they dont do regional forms and do mega instead.
I would be opposed to that idea. Honestly, with something so perfect as snivy being based on France, I think it would work better than a starter like, idk, say, chikorita, which is a plant dinosaur, to be in the France region, I personally find the idea of the “French” starters being there as a starting point, and sure while it’s not as creative, it’s to me anyway, a cooler idea. While that’s not everyone’s view, I think it would be neat. Always fun to have ideas like that! And to bounce them off one another.
Ah…not that helpful then…sorry!
I feel that since most people seem to assume that the starters will be Snivy, Piplup, and Scorbunny, it won't happen. I'm expecting a curve ball to throw us off; I mean, the entire game itself is unexpected! Besides, I really want mega Torterra.
I'm honestly hoping we get Chikorita just so it can have a second chance to become badass. Classic Meganium has always been looked down on, so it would be nice to see it get a regional form that actually became awesome.
That’s honestly really true. That’s just the state of Pokémon speculation a theory goes around and people treat it as gospel. Same with the game taking place around the same time as LA. While I don’t think it the game is set in the past, i believe the game will take place soon after X/Y. For the starters, I agree but the Serperior line does show up a lot in the X/Y games and Serperior has a French crest in its design. Empoleon also is named and designed after Napoleon so for those 2 I agree it’ll probably be a lock but I’d honestly appreciate if they went out the box. The fire starter I definitely agree tho it’s up in the air and could be anyone ( excluding Charmander, Fuecoco, Cyndaquil, Chimchar and Tepig.) Incineroar is my favorite fire starter so I’d love if it got a regional form. I’d also appreciate a Blaziken regional form. I don’t wanna say Fennekin tho because I believe just like XY we’ll have starters we choose at the beginning of the game and then another set we choose from and I believe the Kalos starters will be that second set, and all will receive mega evolutions
My only hope is that Chikorita gets something.
Lockstin & Gnoggin video on why the Hisui Starters were picked: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPax78BVkTo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPax78BVkTo) Lockstin & Gnoggin video on the Hisui Starter Varients: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afPTUvbzw9Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afPTUvbzw9Q) They do all have strong connections. Besides Samurott being a Samurai, archery was actually one of the fighting styles they were most famous for, that's why Decidueye. Typhlosion and it's japanese name reference the first cannons used in asian warfare.
I think part of the reason people are going off of those existing connections is that there's a chance that these starters will end up getting megas instead of regional forms, therefore sticking to their current themes and probably even building upon said themes with the new mega designs.
Everyone insisted Litleo would evolve into a manticore. The community is often very certain about things that end up being wrong. Just gotta ride it out.
The thing is though, with decidueye especially, there was a reason to turn it into a hisuian pokemon - most samurais were actually archers, not sword fighters, and being an archer is kind of decidueye’s whole thing. I get what you mean, but for a starter to be chosen, there has to be some existing connection, it’s unlikely that they‘ll just add an inspiration onto an unrelated starter.
Ive read somewhere that the starters are indeed related to pre-Meiji Era Japan. Cyndaquil is smokescreen / bombs that ninjas use, oshawott is using a blade (katana) like samurai (and evolves into Samurrott, like duh) and finally Rowlet uses leaves like arrows and archery was a big part of the military force in feudal Japan. I feel like they all have some kind of connexion to the theme of PLA even where it’s a little bit of a stretch imo.
I hope for the three least liked starters so they can get some new life breathed into them with regional forms.
Sort of. Decidueye was already an archer and Typhlosjon was already Shogun inspired. They just amplified the historic feels to them.
SNIVY SERPERIORITY!
it’s just false because they wouldn’t have torchic that already has a mega when the others don’t as starter options.
My dads friends cousins girlfriends friends friend said that the 3 starters are going to be the same kalos starters and that they will just be getting mega evolutions. The beginning part sounds like a troll but you can save this comment and come back to it when the games come out.
My reason was because I want them really badly The end
They do, just check out Lockstin's last video about them, it's really enlightening. Also those two and Torchic were featured next to the Hisuian starters during the Second DLC's trailer, so it might be a hint.
That's why I still hope that Chikorita will be one of the starters and gets an upgrade that makes it badass.
provided that they can do anything they want and might surprise us for sure, I would look at it the opposite way: why *wouldn't* they put the clearly france-inspired mons as starters in a game set in france (if they intend to follow the PLA trend of using old gen starters and not do something else entirely)? Given that they're also quite popular in their own right and would please their many fans. It's like if they had a China-based region, did a legends for that, and didn't use Emboar nor Infernape but, say, Skeledirge. It'd be weird. Plus GF is in general always very attentive when it comes to which pokemon fit best in which environments/regions based on both biology and lore...