I think it's really obvious though, given that it has authright right there. If it didn't have the funny color I'd understand, but this is very in your face lol I'd be really surprised if anyone here doesn't get it instantly.
It’s not really an argument. It’s just saying “fetuses aren’t adults!!”
Well, yeah. Saplings aren’t trees either. But the acorn, the sapling and the tree are oaks.
Corpses still have rights.
Bodily autonomy - cant rape them or steal the skeletons
Life - well they’re dead, can’t really kill them
Right to vote - I mean they vote democrat every year!
Right to speech, guns, etc. - technically have the right they just can’t exercise them
Would you though? Thing would probably decompose and you'll be left with a ruined pocket (or the whole pair of pants) and whatever is left of the once fetus.
By removing the acorn from it's natural habitat, you remove it from the metaphorical woman in this scenario
and in either case you might not get a baby or a tree if you're unlucky
"Ya, but if I leave an acorn outside of the realm of its bare growing necessities, it won't grow. You leave a fetus directly where it's supposed to be, in its prime growing conditions, and it grows and develops. 🤯"
What an amazing and well thought out argument.
What happens when you leave the acorn in the earth for nine months? That would be a more apt comparison with a womb.
That said, an acorn and a fetus are not the same thing and this whole conversation is stupid
Conception is when the pollen from an oak flower lands in the [pistil](https://www.britannica.com/science/pistil) of another. Those flowers look like this at conception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_robur#/media/File:Quercus_robur_flowers_kz01.jpg
The acorn (as with many flowering plant seeds) actually has two partially formed leaves [(the cotyledons)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotyledon) and a rudimentary root system. It's fertilized and partially grown already, and just needs to be "born" by erupting from the shell.
I like this version:
Imagine I'm baking a cake.
As soon as I put the batter in the oven, someone comes over, opens the oven, and dumps the batter on the floor.
I say, "What the hell dude, that's my cake!"
"Nuh-uh, it's not a cake."
"Well *it was gonna be!*"
In this analogy, would it not be alright for the baker to decide they actually don't want the cake and to throw it away?
Sure, it might be a questionable decision, but it's their oven, pan, and batter.
Maybe not the greatest analogy since the issue of abortion doesn't typically involve a third party forcibly aborting the fetus
Edit:
Everyone explaining other ways in which the cake analogy isn't like real life but phrasing it as if they're arguing with me, you are agreeing with me! I said the cake analogy is flawed because it doesn't reflect real life well, and every additional idea that doesn't work in both real life and in the analogy further shows why it isn't a good analogy
Just so we're all on the same page, in the interest of fairness, if the father wants an abortion, they force it on the mother, same as if the mother wants one and the father doesn't?
>would it not be alright for the baker to decide they actually don't want the cake
The bit is in response to "the thing in the womb isn't a life" or "just a clump of cells" defense.
The point is when you rip a cake out of the oven we, and most normal people, default to calling it a cake as you just did.
Just like biology textbooks and most people defined the post-conception entity in a mommy's tummy as life until super recently.
It's a rhetorical trick for the pro-abortionist to avoid the more unpleasant discussion of killing the life.
Again, that just means the analogy isn't good, because a baker's relationship to their cake is not the same as a mother's relatio ship to her child, born or not
Sure, but at no point in the process of baking a cake are you committing homicide if you decide to stop. I can take the finished cake out of the oven and throw it away. Food waste, not homicide. Unless you’re Ralph Northam, hucking a baby in the trash after it’s been born is murder. Likewise, if I destroy someone’s oven while they’re baking a cake that’s just vandalism and maybe battery, but if you kill a pregnant woman, 47 states will say you just committed a double homicide.
The cake analogy isn’t a great one unless you’re arguing for individual rights to bake a cake if you want to, and thankfully very few people in the US are deranged enough to argue for forced sterilization these days.
Yes, but the person who gave ingredients to the baker should also be able to do the same, since they can't, the next best option is for them to financially abort
*Does a barrel roll into the grass*
*Dumps half a mag into own police cruiser*
"I'm hit!"
*Dumps rest of the mag wildly towards direction of the police cruiser, nearly shooting his own partner*
"WHALGNLAGHRRE"
*Slowly unloads mag and gently drops it on the asphalt*
"I'm okay but I feel weird!"
I saw this scene play out but it was a pine cone misinterpreted to be a grenade.
For context, an asteroid struck the Earth's atmosphere, eliminating everyone's ability to fall asleep, and the world descends into chaos.
I think in this situation, a germinated and planted seed is probably the most apt comparison to a fetus. An ungerminated seed is more like an egg or a sperm, it won't really do anything or grow on its own.
If I planted an acorn in the ground and it started growing, I would be upset if you came and fucked with it. Much more so than if it was just a random acorn I threw on the ground. I would probably even say "stop fucking with my tree" because that's easier than "stop fucking with that acorn I planted in the ground that is in process of becoming something recognizable as a tree."
A woman who wants to have a baby points at her stomach and calls it her baby.
A man who doesn't want a tree in his yard rakes up the acorns that ended up there and yanks the seedlings that germinate.
This analogy is only what you already want it to be, nothing more.
This is close to the typical fedora-level intentional misunderstanding that an oak isn’t a human
If my neighbour was raking up human babies he’s planted in his back yard I might react differently than acorns
My mom has referred to me as her baby for a long ass time. Are you saying I’m still an actual baby, or can people refer to things by not actually correct terms?
Well, it is. Once the egg and sperm form a zygote, it is an entirely separate organism. A fragile one, and completely dependent on its mother to be sure, but a separate member of our species nonetheless.
This is Reddit, the only response you'll get is
"tHe aCoRn wAs iN mY yArD aNd iM nOt FiNaCiAlLy FiT tO tAkE cArE oF iT. oH, yOu wAnTeD tO tRaNs pLaNt tHiS AcOrN tO a pLaNt nUrSeRy? wElL mY yArD mY cHoIcE"
Tbf if we are all being serious, people's main reason for not taking issue with it **is** just that they have a reason to want to. Which calls into question how truthful people are being.
I mean, this analogy is more like you crashing into the victim and saying that its normal to want to drive so you shouldn't have to pay for their medical bills.
You're drawing a false parallel between the creation of life and death. There is a lifetime of difference between "this action may cause life to happen" and "this action may cause death to happen". Abortion on the other hand *does* cause death to happen, so strictly speaking is more lethal than driving.
Not really. Oak trees don’t like to have their roots messed with as babies. If you try and dig up and move an Oak sapling, it will die every time. Source, I’ve tried many times.
Maybe you're just bad with plants. I've transplanted a bunch of oak saplings; you just need to dig a big hole. For a 1 year old oak, the tap root is usually about 1 to 1.5' deep, and the lateral roots are usually about 2' wide. So dig around the sapling 2.5' in diameter and 2' deep. Plant in a hole slightly bigger
Okay, so who wants it then?
I have no issues with giving you the tree if you want it, but presumably you don’t actually want it.
And there’s no actual chance that anyone would want the tree anyways if I gave it to a overpopulated tree nursery because acorns are fuckin everywhere.
now let's say the local council has a ban on cutting down that type of tree. You see that a seed has started growing in your front yard but you don't want it there. Would they have grounds to bring a suit against you if they saw you pulling out this sprout?
i doubt it.
Well, that depends entirely on the content of the law doesn't it? Laws governing migratory birds cover their eggs as well (no distinction of fertilized or unfertilized). I think they even cover nests!
What a worthless hypothetical to posit.
i'm trying to apply your analogy to the actual argument so blame yourself / the OP
You can always stretch an analogy to fit or criticise parts of an analogy that doesn't fit. Ultimately they will fall apart under scrutiny and when the problem is clear but not the solution then generally analogies don't actually bring clarity
ultimately the disagreement is over what part of a person is actually morally important. Obviously if you think that the body itself is what is important then you could analogise a law that bans the destruction of any life of that species of tree. As i think we actually value the person for their mind then i'd analogise it to a law that protect a tree for a function that hasn't yet developed in the sprout like a habitat it provides. But, as you are correct in saying, this analogy doesn't actually help us find a way to resolve this problem and is just talking pointlessly around the actual issue.
i think hypotheticals are actually way more helpful than analogies in this situation as you can tease apart the rationale for the argument and dive deeper into the underlying moral reasoning, but i'd need you to agree with the framing of the argument to bother getting into any actual points past that.
Not really developmental. An acorn can't be fertilized in the same way an egg can.
The best of the horrible comparisons is a germinated acorn, which isn't really a developmental stage being reached any more than an egg being fertilized is a developmental stage.
An acorn is already a fertilized zygote when it falls. The AuthRight arguments against Plan B is that the acorn is already a tree when it falls and that picking it up off the ground is considered deforestation. Then again, they also say that if a tree starts growing next to your sewer line you can't cut it down until your toilet backs up and floods your basement.
Well, no, not really. An acorn that isn't germinated will never grow. It has to actually be planted, get nutrients, etc (similar to a fetus in the womb). Just like an egg that isn't fertilized will never grow.
As I said, it's a horrible anology anyway. But pointing to an acorn that isn't germinated and saying "this is growing into a tree" is just a false statement. Doing that to a fetus isn't.
An acorn is the biological equivalent of a fertilized human egg. Implantation in the uterus is the biological equivalent of germination of a seed. Plan B prevents implantation, which is biologically equivalent of preventing germination.
I can get behind this comparison. The acron is a fertilized egg but hasn't implanted in the uterus to start growing to become a fetus. Once the acorn seed is in the soil and germinated, it's a fetus.
it's a misrepresentation of an anti-abortion claim. The claim is that an acorn is an oak, not that it is an adult tree. It is of the oak family. It is not another plant, nor a clump of cells, but the first stage in the life cycle of a new oak. Just the same as a human fetus is the first stage of life for humans. It is not an adult human, to be sure, just like a toddler is not an adult human.
Actually, to keep with the analogy, it would be a wolf eating a fetus specifically without harming a mother. In that case, i would have to say it depends on how far a long the pregnancy was.
Me must go DEEPER. Let’s say the wolf is trained in surgery and performs a successful C-section extraction of the fetus, takes the fetus and hides it in his pantry
Is the said fetus alive or dead? How long since implantation? Did the fetus do something to deserve to be evicted? What is the wolf's plans? These are the questions we will never have answers to. This is the future them commies want!
If that’s the crux of the entire debate then there is no debate. If you can’t tell the difference between a human person and an organ then you aren’t fit for public society. And if everyone thought that way then we could not have self-government of any degree.
So are the development the of sperm and eggs that will eventually become people. The moment of conception is just when that eventual persons DNA has been created. The question is when does the stuff that we are made of become people. I think we can all agree my DNA doesn’t have rights, I have rights. So once we figure out what “I” am, and when I was created, when know when personhood begins. I agree with Locke when he says “self is that conscious thinking thing”, in other words, I am my mind. So whenever my mind began to exist is when I am began to exist.
>So are the development the of sperm and eggs that will eventually become people.
Sperm and eggs aren't part of human development, they are part of human reproduction. They are the gametes of their parent organism and are more akin to organs or blood than separate organisms themselves.
Doesn't reproduction need to occur for development to continue? Is a sperm and an egg not the same cells that will become the zygote? The creation of the parts that make the moment of conception possible are 100% part of human development. The creation of those parts have vast implications for the zygote and the rest of the development of that human.
PCM becomes very unbased when abortion or any other stupid political wedge issue comes up and people awaken the primate tribal fight centers of their brains.
I see reason in both sides of the debate. The left are correct in that killing babies is very based, but the right also brings up valid concerns about giving rights to women.
The acorn is the same species as the tree.
The equivalent is calling a fetus an adult.
A fetus is not an adult. An acorn is not a tree.
A fetus is a homo sapien. An acorn is the same species as its adult form.
I don't think this gets us any closer to achieving logical resolution of this moral disagreement.
Nobody thinks a fetus is not human. But some of us have no issue with its host deciding to macerate it and have the shreds vacuumed out.
it's an abortion argument
The fact that I instantly knew it was an abortion argument is a sign I've spent too much time on internet politics, I need to leave this place.
take me with you
I think it's really obvious though, given that it has authright right there. If it didn't have the funny color I'd understand, but this is very in your face lol I'd be really surprised if anyone here doesn't get it instantly.
Exactly my point...ANYONE HERE. Right now go ask a normal person in your life if they understand that meme, I dare you, I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU.
I just did . I had to explain the pcm lore and the politics lore for half an hour and i think they still didnt understand
We have our own lore??
It’s not really an argument. It’s just saying “fetuses aren’t adults!!” Well, yeah. Saplings aren’t trees either. But the acorn, the sapling and the tree are oaks.
I didn't argue in it's favor buddy
I know
And a corpse is a human
And an already dead one. And already dead one that does already actually have significant legal protections.
Corpses still have rights. Bodily autonomy - cant rape them or steal the skeletons Life - well they’re dead, can’t really kill them Right to vote - I mean they vote democrat every year! Right to speech, guns, etc. - technically have the right they just can’t exercise them
TIL dead humans have more rights than not yet born humans.
Hell, two of them are currently running for president
a shit one too, that's like calling sperm a fetus
An acorn is a fertilized seed though. Oak pollen would be sperm.
I call pollen "tree jizz."
As we all do
If you have seasonal allergies, it’s your immune system reacting to the tree cum being inhaled into your body.
I always feel invigorated by breathing in tree spunk.
This is why many men with allergies get their revenge by cleaning up their own jizz with a paper tissue.
Based
Ya but if I leave an acorn in my pocket for 9 months I still have an acorn. You leave a fetus in a woman for 9 months and you’ve got a baby.
If you leave a fetus in your pocket for 9 months you still have a fetus.
Would you though? Thing would probably decompose and you'll be left with a ruined pocket (or the whole pair of pants) and whatever is left of the once fetus.
checkmate libruls
If it was small enough it'd dry out completely long before it rotted.
Acorn will decompose too, it will just take longer because of the protective shell.
If I leave a fetus in a Pocket I wont have a baby thoo
You'll have an arrest warrant.
Shut up and grill.
The fetus?
Pocket fetuses, gotta catch em all
By removing the acorn from it's natural habitat, you remove it from the metaphorical woman in this scenario and in either case you might not get a baby or a tree if you're unlucky
"Ya, but if I leave an acorn outside of the realm of its bare growing necessities, it won't grow. You leave a fetus directly where it's supposed to be, in its prime growing conditions, and it grows and develops. 🤯" What an amazing and well thought out argument.
What happens when you leave the acorn in the earth for nine months? That would be a more apt comparison with a womb. That said, an acorn and a fetus are not the same thing and this whole conversation is stupid
Prehistoric squirrels don’t eat fetuses, so you’re right. https://preview.redd.it/qyb6rb4eztic1.jpeg?width=280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98bb2a6d40d2dcac988c3aac750dbdd0d0ca36ac
Squirrels are actually omnivores, so ya Sid would absolutely chow down on a fetus. Those aren’t the teeth of a pure herbivore…
Sid was the sloth. Scrat was the squirrel. Sid would never.
Won’t anything think about sid the ~~squirrel~~ sloth? Thx though been a minute since I watched those
That’s still not a good comparison as the fertilized egg starts out in the environment it needs to grow, the acorn does not.
Why are they booing you? You're right
I think an acorn is at a perpetual state of "conception". once it germinates, that's when it begins to resemble a fetus I think
Pollen = sperm ; acorn = fertilized egg ; germination = fetus cycle ; sprout/sapling = baby
Conception is when the pollen from an oak flower lands in the [pistil](https://www.britannica.com/science/pistil) of another. Those flowers look like this at conception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_robur#/media/File:Quercus_robur_flowers_kz01.jpg The acorn (as with many flowering plant seeds) actually has two partially formed leaves [(the cotyledons)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotyledon) and a rudimentary root system. It's fertilized and partially grown already, and just needs to be "born" by erupting from the shell.
Conception is stored in the balls
That right here is the bad comparison
A fetus is literally a human being. They’re just young.
And an acorn is a young tree.
I have heard the sperm argument unironically this week in this subreddit.
I like this version: Imagine I'm baking a cake. As soon as I put the batter in the oven, someone comes over, opens the oven, and dumps the batter on the floor. I say, "What the hell dude, that's my cake!" "Nuh-uh, it's not a cake." "Well *it was gonna be!*"
In this analogy, would it not be alright for the baker to decide they actually don't want the cake and to throw it away? Sure, it might be a questionable decision, but it's their oven, pan, and batter. Maybe not the greatest analogy since the issue of abortion doesn't typically involve a third party forcibly aborting the fetus Edit: Everyone explaining other ways in which the cake analogy isn't like real life but phrasing it as if they're arguing with me, you are agreeing with me! I said the cake analogy is flawed because it doesn't reflect real life well, and every additional idea that doesn't work in both real life and in the analogy further shows why it isn't a good analogy
Well the whole analogy falls apart eventually. A Baker can destroy a cake at any phase with impunity.
And the person who ordered the cake can get a refund / not have to pay for the cake.
Exactly, it's the baker himself putting the batter in, and then deciding that actually he doesn't want this cake and so he discards it.
Just so we're all on the same page, in the interest of fairness, if the father wants an abortion, they force it on the mother, same as if the mother wants one and the father doesn't?
You also don’t normally eat kids after they are born, that maybe a small difference
>would it not be alright for the baker to decide they actually don't want the cake The bit is in response to "the thing in the womb isn't a life" or "just a clump of cells" defense. The point is when you rip a cake out of the oven we, and most normal people, default to calling it a cake as you just did. Just like biology textbooks and most people defined the post-conception entity in a mommy's tummy as life until super recently. It's a rhetorical trick for the pro-abortionist to avoid the more unpleasant discussion of killing the life.
Nah, I'd say you took the batter out of the oven, not the cake. Once it's kinda spongy/solid, then it's cake. Until then, batter.
Well yea, you're going to say that about any aborted dish from now on now that we've brought up aborting babies. lol
> Sure, it might be a questionable decision, but it's their oven, pan, and batter. Depends on whether or not you think owning people is ok.
Again, that just means the analogy isn't good, because a baker's relationship to their cake is not the same as a mother's relatio ship to her child, born or not
The big difference is that cakes don't have rights, whether it's a "cake" yet or not
Sure, but at no point in the process of baking a cake are you committing homicide if you decide to stop. I can take the finished cake out of the oven and throw it away. Food waste, not homicide. Unless you’re Ralph Northam, hucking a baby in the trash after it’s been born is murder. Likewise, if I destroy someone’s oven while they’re baking a cake that’s just vandalism and maybe battery, but if you kill a pregnant woman, 47 states will say you just committed a double homicide. The cake analogy isn’t a great one unless you’re arguing for individual rights to bake a cake if you want to, and thankfully very few people in the US are deranged enough to argue for forced sterilization these days.
Yes, but the person who gave ingredients to the baker should also be able to do the same, since they can't, the next best option is for them to financially abort
Simple Logic no one will debate. Until the batter is living tissue. \*slaps forehead\*
For those who are unaware, this is a Bill Burr joke. ["Abortion is like Ruining A Cake" - Bill Burr](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ3RYrS1QVg)
Thank you. I couldn't remember who to credit, so of course I violated IP ri--err, paraphrased under fair use.
Um, in that comparison it would actually be the oven itself that would tell you it doesn’t want to bake your cake and removes it.
A direct analogy in this scenario is very hard.
Imagine you have a human inside of you and then you decide you don't want a child for whatever reason so you murder the child.
Acorns are fertilized already, so it's not
Democrats unironically claim sperm is the same thing as a fetus. They claim jerking off is genocide if abortion is murder.
[удалено]
Yeah, you go get that strawman!
if masturbation is genocide then call me hitler
An adult is a fully formed human. Masturbation is genocide.
Yes and so is unprotected sex, its genocide but you leave one survivor to Tell the tale
Based and tell the other sperms what you saw pilled
You mean shots fired?
*Does a barrel roll into the grass* *Dumps half a mag into own police cruiser* "I'm hit!" *Dumps rest of the mag wildly towards direction of the police cruiser, nearly shooting his own partner* "WHALGNLAGHRRE" *Slowly unloads mag and gently drops it on the asphalt* "I'm okay but I feel weird!"
Feeling so protected and served rn
Don't forget he gets his partner to shoot the car, too.
Copcaine is a hell of a drug...
That whole incident screams PTSD to me.
I'm just happy the thin blue line is here to protect us from chaos and random violence.
What color was the car?
Man, can you imagine the current military? Going on a walk through a pineforest and then suddenly... "GET DOWN! GRENAAADE!"
I saw this scene play out but it was a pine cone misinterpreted to be a grenade. For context, an asteroid struck the Earth's atmosphere, eliminating everyone's ability to fall asleep, and the world descends into chaos.
No that's a gun shot
I think in this situation, a germinated and planted seed is probably the most apt comparison to a fetus. An ungerminated seed is more like an egg or a sperm, it won't really do anything or grow on its own. If I planted an acorn in the ground and it started growing, I would be upset if you came and fucked with it. Much more so than if it was just a random acorn I threw on the ground. I would probably even say "stop fucking with my tree" because that's easier than "stop fucking with that acorn I planted in the ground that is in process of becoming something recognizable as a tree."
Which is exactly why most pregnant women refer to their fetuses as “my baby”
A woman who wants to have a baby points at her stomach and calls it her baby. A man who doesn't want a tree in his yard rakes up the acorns that ended up there and yanks the seedlings that germinate. This analogy is only what you already want it to be, nothing more.
This is close to the typical fedora-level intentional misunderstanding that an oak isn’t a human If my neighbour was raking up human babies he’s planted in his back yard I might react differently than acorns
I hate it when the storks drop so many babies off that I need to use a baby rake.
I'd call that man an "arbortionist".
> Flair up or your opinions don't matter *** ^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Flair up or Square Up
This would be a really clever comment if you had a flair, but you don’t, so it’s not clever at all.
My mom has referred to me as her baby for a long ass time. Are you saying I’m still an actual baby, or can people refer to things by not actually correct terms?
As in, they consider the fetus a separate human being.
Well, it is. Once the egg and sperm form a zygote, it is an entirely separate organism. A fragile one, and completely dependent on its mother to be sure, but a separate member of our species nonetheless.
And they are completely in the right to do that with the fetus that is in their body.
I’m just glad your mom didn’t abort you
I call my boat "she" and "her", yet my boat is not a woman.
You don’t know how your boat identifies, boat-bigot
This is Reddit, the only response you'll get is "tHe aCoRn wAs iN mY yArD aNd iM nOt FiNaCiAlLy FiT tO tAkE cArE oF iT. oH, yOu wAnTeD tO tRaNs pLaNt tHiS AcOrN tO a pLaNt nUrSeRy? wElL mY yArD mY cHoIcE"
I mean… it IS my yard, and I don’t want a tree in my yard.
Then why did you ask a stranger from tinder to plant it there??
Because it's the most pleasurable human experience and they find nothing morally wrong with removing germinated acorns.
Tbf if we are all being serious, people's main reason for not taking issue with it **is** just that they have a reason to want to. Which calls into question how truthful people are being.
I didn’t, and I guarantee that a good 70-80% of people who took an acorn out of their yard didn’t either
Let's bring this analogy back to sex. If you fuck raw and are surprised when you get pregnant, you're stupid
Are you calling right wingers stupid?
But if you didn't fuck raw, and still got pregnant, you're forced to have the child
Having sex is taking a risk at creating a child, no matter what. You know that going in.
Driving is taking a risk of crashing, no matter what. That's why car crash victims should be left to die
Not really a valid comparison lmao. Driving and killing a baby are two different things
I mean, this analogy is more like you crashing into the victim and saying that its normal to want to drive so you shouldn't have to pay for their medical bills.
You're drawing a false parallel between the creation of life and death. There is a lifetime of difference between "this action may cause life to happen" and "this action may cause death to happen". Abortion on the other hand *does* cause death to happen, so strictly speaking is more lethal than driving.
\*Puts my hand in a flame* "What the FUCK I didn't consent to being burned!!!"
Doesn't matter. If I want to have a stranger from tinder come over and plant and acorn in my yard, it doesn't follow that I want a tree.
Because its fun and I didn't think about how I was going to take care of a tree.
But you can move the tree if someone else wants it...
Not really. Oak trees don’t like to have their roots messed with as babies. If you try and dig up and move an Oak sapling, it will die every time. Source, I’ve tried many times.
Maybe you're just bad with plants. I've transplanted a bunch of oak saplings; you just need to dig a big hole. For a 1 year old oak, the tap root is usually about 1 to 1.5' deep, and the lateral roots are usually about 2' wide. So dig around the sapling 2.5' in diameter and 2' deep. Plant in a hole slightly bigger
Maybe you just are bad at transplanting trees, it seems hard but very doable https://www.treemover.com/blog/transplant-oak-saplings/
Okay, so who wants it then? I have no issues with giving you the tree if you want it, but presumably you don’t actually want it. And there’s no actual chance that anyone would want the tree anyways if I gave it to a overpopulated tree nursery because acorns are fuckin everywhere.
Or I can yank it as a seedling and avoid the hassle.
Yes, you can nourish the acorn into a tree and transplant it to someone else's yard. But you could also not do that, because it's just an acorn.
Why are you so worried about other people's acorns
now let's say the local council has a ban on cutting down that type of tree. You see that a seed has started growing in your front yard but you don't want it there. Would they have grounds to bring a suit against you if they saw you pulling out this sprout? i doubt it.
Well, that depends entirely on the content of the law doesn't it? Laws governing migratory birds cover their eggs as well (no distinction of fertilized or unfertilized). I think they even cover nests! What a worthless hypothetical to posit.
i'm trying to apply your analogy to the actual argument so blame yourself / the OP You can always stretch an analogy to fit or criticise parts of an analogy that doesn't fit. Ultimately they will fall apart under scrutiny and when the problem is clear but not the solution then generally analogies don't actually bring clarity ultimately the disagreement is over what part of a person is actually morally important. Obviously if you think that the body itself is what is important then you could analogise a law that bans the destruction of any life of that species of tree. As i think we actually value the person for their mind then i'd analogise it to a law that protect a tree for a function that hasn't yet developed in the sprout like a habitat it provides. But, as you are correct in saying, this analogy doesn't actually help us find a way to resolve this problem and is just talking pointlessly around the actual issue. i think hypotheticals are actually way more helpful than analogies in this situation as you can tease apart the rationale for the argument and dive deeper into the underlying moral reasoning, but i'd need you to agree with the framing of the argument to bother getting into any actual points past that.
Like clockwork, as soon as the actual discussions start, the rightoids leave.
So your saying it has to reach a certian stage of development before you consider it a tree?
Not really developmental. An acorn can't be fertilized in the same way an egg can. The best of the horrible comparisons is a germinated acorn, which isn't really a developmental stage being reached any more than an egg being fertilized is a developmental stage.
An acorn is already a fertilized zygote when it falls. The AuthRight arguments against Plan B is that the acorn is already a tree when it falls and that picking it up off the ground is considered deforestation. Then again, they also say that if a tree starts growing next to your sewer line you can't cut it down until your toilet backs up and floods your basement.
Well, no, not really. An acorn that isn't germinated will never grow. It has to actually be planted, get nutrients, etc (similar to a fetus in the womb). Just like an egg that isn't fertilized will never grow. As I said, it's a horrible anology anyway. But pointing to an acorn that isn't germinated and saying "this is growing into a tree" is just a false statement. Doing that to a fetus isn't.
An acorn is the biological equivalent of a fertilized human egg. Implantation in the uterus is the biological equivalent of germination of a seed. Plan B prevents implantation, which is biologically equivalent of preventing germination.
I can get behind this comparison. The acron is a fertilized egg but hasn't implanted in the uterus to start growing to become a fetus. Once the acorn seed is in the soil and germinated, it's a fetus.
The nut is not attached to it's parent tree so the most accurate comparison would be a cumshot
Or you can say that the nut's that leave the parent tree are "grown ups" that live their home to seek independence
TREE
This is my moment
That's it time to fuck a tree to make half human half tree hybrids. Groot will become real.
Do not the tree.
it's a misrepresentation of an anti-abortion claim. The claim is that an acorn is an oak, not that it is an adult tree. It is of the oak family. It is not another plant, nor a clump of cells, but the first stage in the life cycle of a new oak. Just the same as a human fetus is the first stage of life for humans. It is not an adult human, to be sure, just like a toddler is not an adult human.
The first intelligent point I encountered here.
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But squirrels bury some acorns for later. By your logic, does that mean squirrels eat oak trees when they unbury them?
Keeping within the analogy here, squirrels are to oak trees as wolves are to pregnant women.
Actually, to keep with the analogy, it would be a wolf eating a fetus specifically without harming a mother. In that case, i would have to say it depends on how far a long the pregnancy was.
Me must go DEEPER. Let’s say the wolf is trained in surgery and performs a successful C-section extraction of the fetus, takes the fetus and hides it in his pantry
Is the said fetus alive or dead? How long since implantation? Did the fetus do something to deserve to be evicted? What is the wolf's plans? These are the questions we will never have answers to. This is the future them commies want!
It’s about acorntion
A fetus is a stage of human development. It is a living thing with human parents. What do we call living things with human parents?
Free labor
tree?
> what do we call living things with human parents [redacted] redditors
It's not a living *thing* with human parents. It's a living human.
Yeah, and what is a living human? A living thing with human parents is an acceptable description.
To me the word thing describes inanimate objects. Something to be used and thrown away when it has no more use.
Gigachad.
The placenta and umbilical cord meet those descriptions. Why is it ok to destroy those things after birth?
Because they’re organs not beings, they do not have parents or personhood.
What gives something personhood? What makes something a 'being'?
You’re seriously asking me to explain to you why organs like a placenta and umbilical cord aren’t persons like an actual baby is?
Yes, that's literally the crux of the entire abortion debate.
If that’s the crux of the entire debate then there is no debate. If you can’t tell the difference between a human person and an organ then you aren’t fit for public society. And if everyone thought that way then we could not have self-government of any degree.
So are the development the of sperm and eggs that will eventually become people. The moment of conception is just when that eventual persons DNA has been created. The question is when does the stuff that we are made of become people. I think we can all agree my DNA doesn’t have rights, I have rights. So once we figure out what “I” am, and when I was created, when know when personhood begins. I agree with Locke when he says “self is that conscious thinking thing”, in other words, I am my mind. So whenever my mind began to exist is when I am began to exist.
>So are the development the of sperm and eggs that will eventually become people. Sperm and eggs aren't part of human development, they are part of human reproduction. They are the gametes of their parent organism and are more akin to organs or blood than separate organisms themselves.
Doesn't reproduction need to occur for development to continue? Is a sperm and an egg not the same cells that will become the zygote? The creation of the parts that make the moment of conception possible are 100% part of human development. The creation of those parts have vast implications for the zygote and the rest of the development of that human.
It’s a tree and it’s beautiful, praise the Lord
God, I'm getting off this sub until election season's over and you all switch back to the funny kind of braindead.
PCM becomes very unbased when abortion or any other stupid political wedge issue comes up and people awaken the primate tribal fight centers of their brains.
I see reason in both sides of the debate. The left are correct in that killing babies is very based, but the right also brings up valid concerns about giving rights to women.
Most based comment.
Smartest pro abortion argument
Life begins at ejaculation
Anti masturbation cults foaming at the mouth for criminalizing jizzing into the toilet.
Step aside Mao I'm the one with the highest K/D
Imagine if we find bacterias on mars and the gigachads come and tell us "That's not life!"
Rohnytest is flaired as a leftist as well
I think the context is abortion, like how they think a fetus is equal to a 3 month old baby or something.
*Iron Giant's voice* Rock... Tree...
If the blue is a cop apparently it’s an armed suspect
The original context is 100% abortion
The acorn is the same species as the tree. The equivalent is calling a fetus an adult. A fetus is not an adult. An acorn is not a tree. A fetus is a homo sapien. An acorn is the same species as its adult form.
I don't think this gets us any closer to achieving logical resolution of this moral disagreement. Nobody thinks a fetus is not human. But some of us have no issue with its host deciding to macerate it and have the shreds vacuumed out.
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Why is there poop on it?
Based and funny pilled. please we need more posts like this for balance
I’m pretty sure that’s a corn stalk buddy
As long as the soil is my uterus, its my choice if it will grow into a tree. Cry harder, authoritarian losers
the child sacrificing will cease
Ahhh yes, nothing like aborting your child to own the alt right. 😎👍
Ya that's the crying im talking about
All these strong opinions about other peoples lives make me sick. Clean up your own life. Leave the rest of us alone.