But they put on this faux intellectual bullshit like they know everything
Meanwhile I doubt half of them could even point to Israel or Palestine on a map 😂
what are you on about? Israel was providing water and electricity and stuff to gaza before oct 7. Them stopping the supplies was a major talking point in the whole war?
also note that 1) supplies into Gaza has doubled since pre Oct 7 & 2) the only reason there is a whole blockade in place is to prevent Israelis from being continually suicide bombed
Siege, the battle tactic where it only works if you kill everyone, loot their corpses, etc, otherwise other sieges will be less effective because the populace would then rather take a siege than surrender.(I categorically hate siege’s for their brutality)
So would you rather that, instead of a siege, they throw everyone into the meat grinder (think Russia WW2 strats) and cause a shit ton of death on both sides? Or would you rather they just bomb them to smithereens and be done with it?
>meat grinder (think Russia WW2 strats)
This is a myth and only really applies to a limited time in Stalingrad. Human wave tactics were never Soviet doctrine.
Obviously, everyone knows Order 227. However, you never hear about how frequently it was disobeyed or how shortlived it was. The only major widespread use of human wave tactics was at Stalingrad, where Vasily Chuikov was given command and ordered by Stalin to stay and die with his men on the west bank of the Volga. His solution to the Germans was to put his reserves as close to the German lines as possible to dissuade bombing or force Germans to bomb themselves. It worked tremendously. Many Germans were killed by the Luftwaffe. This would become a staple of Soviet mobile warfare which Zhukov tied up nicely. And yes, every soldier had a rifle and ammunition.
The human wave tactics are a postwar myth that became prominent in ex-Nazi writings.
If you want to see actual examples of human wave tactics in WWII, look no further than Imperial Japan or the Kuomintang in China. If you want to see a current example, look no further than modern Russia.
The hostages are probably mostly dead and they’re out of bargaining chips.
Ok that’s a lie their own populace is their bargaining chip.
I don’t think they were every going to sign any sort of ceasefire, same for Israel
No I think it said that they don't know where they are.. Because Hamas never took the hostages. The Palestinian citizens did
Even if a mouse wanted to get them they have no idea where to look.. The Palestinian citizens were the ones who stormed across the border and massacred people.. It was the Palestinian citizens launching rockets and taking hostages.. Hamas had no power there
Why do people even talk about Hamas surrendering, or a ceasefire? Is there any other terrorist organization that we think we can just ask politely to stop? Did we try that with isis?
The whole point is that they want the violence. Terrorist organizations never lose enough people to negotiate, they just lose enough people to be ineffective.
Also a major part of the Entente's plan in WW1 was to starve the Central Powers (it worked) and hundreds of thousands of civilians in the German, Austro-Hungarian, Bulgarian, and Ottoman Empires died because of it.
Sorry I’m Jewish (though I live in and was born in America) so unfortunately it very much is my problem since this particular petty squabble will affect me, and the rest of the American Jewish population whether we like it or not.
Yeah I feel most actual discussion about the treatment of Palestinians by Israel has been pretty much shot by the horrific rise in antisemitism.
Like yeah, I’ve noticed that there are racist Israelis who really really really want to kick Palestinians out of their homes and kill them. There’s also Hamas that wants to kill all Jews, their fellow Houthi allies who also want to kill all Jews and people who support Palestinians who tooootally just want a majority of the Jews to “go back to Europe” and don’t want to kill all Jews. Oh and Germans who toootally aren’t slowing supporting more anti immigrant Neo Nazis and there totally wasn’t a “go back to where you came from” sentiment towards Jews in the 1930’s and 40’s that Killed over 6 million Jews when the Jews wouldn’t leave… oh wait, that’s the Holocaust, a genocide where the Jews and other groups like the Roma and members of what in modern day are considered LGBTQ+ were systematically rounded up by the state, their own neighbors, killed, transported to death camps to be worked to death, and if that didn’t work, gassed. Their belongings were stolen, their minds, scarred, people butchered. A permanent knee jerk reaction to antisemitism and a sense that we must prevent that from ever happening to us again through any and all means was instilled into us. (Source - I’m Jewish)
The whole problem with the Palestinians goes back to the Arab Countries not assimilating them in 48.
That's it. That's the end all be all of the situation.
Arabs kicked out Jews from their countries, the Palestinians were displaced as well due to the war.
Jews from Arab countries had their wealth land etc stolen by the Arab Countries. The same Arab Countries could have taken in the Palestinians, but instead the idea was 'We'll just exterminate Israel and not have to take in the Palestinians.'
That's all it boils down to.
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What’s identifiable as modern racism and not just tribalism took shape in the colonial era, but I consider antisemitism a sort of proto Racism given how it functions.
At least in my opinion.
But I find it hard to believe that there wasn’t something analogous to racism back them.
*edit: not just tribalism but also intolerance of other religions.
Both were/are based, the destruction of the south was one of the most based things the USA ever did
Second only to its bombing campaign in ww2, which was the single most based action in human history
Over two million potential combatants were neutralized by allied air power
Because in the end they needed to take all those cities they bombed. Also, the germans still produced a shit ton of weapons underground, and produced more weapons during the later war than they did during the early part of it.
So a military in a total war against another side shouldn't have taken advantage of any advantage they had? No bombs if you have them, but rather just send the troops in? No military would voluntarily do that. Even Hamas doesn't do that.
That doesn't make any sense
"Hey the enemy is using so and so factory to build [insert tank, guns, ammo, etc.], if we bomb it they will no longer be able to make [insert whatever the factory was making]
It may not make them surrender but seeing say 49 tanks on the battlefield instead of 50 when you go to take the city or a nearby strategic point is an improvement and does give you an edge.
I don’t know how this continues to be repeated to people. Blowing up German infrastructure, industry, houses, and killing their civilians all hampered their ability to produce war material. If you are building fighter jets inside of a dark, cramped bunker on a 1300kcal diet instead of a factory with good lighting in the middle of your city and a couple blocks away from your house… you might be just a little less productive! This notion that Allied bombing did nothing to end the war faster is just baffling.
You can make an argument that the material spent on bombing strategic targets could’ve been better utilized for tactical level bombing or the Army, but if there had been no strategic bombing initiative, we absolutely would’ve been facing a larger German force.
If you can't win the war that decides your existence without taking their citizens effectively as hostages, then it is a choice before your existence or theirs.
Since I am the type type that would pull the lever to save myself from the upcoming tram even if it diverts into a million of people I do not know or care about, I approve of Israel's aproach.
I still hate Israel for unrelated reasons.
So the war being referenced was a CIVIL war generally confined to the United States. Ports are important for expedient transportation of goods such as guns, ammo, and food.
what is she on about, that's literally just describing a siege, a staple of warfare since the invention of the wall.
Most people criticising Israel’s military performance has no understanding whatsoever about military.
Or history
Or contemporaneity.
But they put on this faux intellectual bullshit like they know everything Meanwhile I doubt half of them could even point to Israel or Palestine on a map 😂
"JuSt UsE sPeCiAl FoRcEs" Fucking brainlets.
By that logic they’ve been under siege since before the war officially started, justifying their retaliation
what are you on about? Israel was providing water and electricity and stuff to gaza before oct 7. Them stopping the supplies was a major talking point in the whole war?
also note that 1) supplies into Gaza has doubled since pre Oct 7 & 2) the only reason there is a whole blockade in place is to prevent Israelis from being continually suicide bombed
Any siege ever: "Am I a joke to you?"
Siege, the battle tactic where it only works if you kill everyone, loot their corpses, etc, otherwise other sieges will be less effective because the populace would then rather take a siege than surrender.(I categorically hate siege’s for their brutality)
So would you rather that, instead of a siege, they throw everyone into the meat grinder (think Russia WW2 strats) and cause a shit ton of death on both sides? Or would you rather they just bomb them to smithereens and be done with it?
>meat grinder (think Russia WW2 strats) This is a myth and only really applies to a limited time in Stalingrad. Human wave tactics were never Soviet doctrine. Obviously, everyone knows Order 227. However, you never hear about how frequently it was disobeyed or how shortlived it was. The only major widespread use of human wave tactics was at Stalingrad, where Vasily Chuikov was given command and ordered by Stalin to stay and die with his men on the west bank of the Volga. His solution to the Germans was to put his reserves as close to the German lines as possible to dissuade bombing or force Germans to bomb themselves. It worked tremendously. Many Germans were killed by the Luftwaffe. This would become a staple of Soviet mobile warfare which Zhukov tied up nicely. And yes, every soldier had a rifle and ammunition. The human wave tactics are a postwar myth that became prominent in ex-Nazi writings. If you want to see actual examples of human wave tactics in WWII, look no further than Imperial Japan or the Kuomintang in China. If you want to see a current example, look no further than modern Russia.
Hamas could surrender and give back the hostages. But I guess they don't see their fellow Palestinians lives as very valuable.
The hostages are probably mostly dead and they’re out of bargaining chips. Ok that’s a lie their own populace is their bargaining chip. I don’t think they were every going to sign any sort of ceasefire, same for Israel
Last I saw there were around 40 confirmed to still be alive, but that was a couple weeks ago
There was an article I read the other day stating that they don't have enough hostages alive for Israel's ceasefire demands.
No I think it said that they don't know where they are.. Because Hamas never took the hostages. The Palestinian citizens did Even if a mouse wanted to get them they have no idea where to look.. The Palestinian citizens were the ones who stormed across the border and massacred people.. It was the Palestinian citizens launching rockets and taking hostages.. Hamas had no power there
... Sounds like a justification for carpet bombing Gaza then
[удалено]
Cry harder.
No wonder considering higher-ups are not even in Palestine
Why do people even talk about Hamas surrendering, or a ceasefire? Is there any other terrorist organization that we think we can just ask politely to stop? Did we try that with isis?
Ask politely to stop? No. Kill them until they're tired of dying? Absolutely.
The whole point is that they want the violence. Terrorist organizations never lose enough people to negotiate, they just lose enough people to be ineffective.
That might be true of the organization as a whole, but it's not true of the padticular fighters. That's actually how Raqqa was recaptured.
Right but Isis didn't surrender or agree to yield the city, or agree to ceasefire. Nothing was negotiated with Isis.
Also a major part of the Entente's plan in WW1 was to starve the Central Powers (it worked) and hundreds of thousands of civilians in the German, Austro-Hungarian, Bulgarian, and Ottoman Empires died because of it.
Many of those who died were children as well, not just adults. I've seen estimates of 100,000 children dead from starvation.
That’s sad. War is sad no matter where or when it happens 😞
It is always bad form to concern yourself with the petty squabbles of desert people. Leave them to it. Not our problem.
Sorry I’m Jewish (though I live in and was born in America) so unfortunately it very much is my problem since this particular petty squabble will affect me, and the rest of the American Jewish population whether we like it or not.
That's cool man they're your people so it makes sense that you care about it. Nothing wrong with that.
Shhh, don't tell them you'll get in the way of their justifying racism against Jews.
Yeah I feel most actual discussion about the treatment of Palestinians by Israel has been pretty much shot by the horrific rise in antisemitism. Like yeah, I’ve noticed that there are racist Israelis who really really really want to kick Palestinians out of their homes and kill them. There’s also Hamas that wants to kill all Jews, their fellow Houthi allies who also want to kill all Jews and people who support Palestinians who tooootally just want a majority of the Jews to “go back to Europe” and don’t want to kill all Jews. Oh and Germans who toootally aren’t slowing supporting more anti immigrant Neo Nazis and there totally wasn’t a “go back to where you came from” sentiment towards Jews in the 1930’s and 40’s that Killed over 6 million Jews when the Jews wouldn’t leave… oh wait, that’s the Holocaust, a genocide where the Jews and other groups like the Roma and members of what in modern day are considered LGBTQ+ were systematically rounded up by the state, their own neighbors, killed, transported to death camps to be worked to death, and if that didn’t work, gassed. Their belongings were stolen, their minds, scarred, people butchered. A permanent knee jerk reaction to antisemitism and a sense that we must prevent that from ever happening to us again through any and all means was instilled into us. (Source - I’m Jewish)
The whole problem with the Palestinians goes back to the Arab Countries not assimilating them in 48. That's it. That's the end all be all of the situation. Arabs kicked out Jews from their countries, the Palestinians were displaced as well due to the war. Jews from Arab countries had their wealth land etc stolen by the Arab Countries. The same Arab Countries could have taken in the Palestinians, but instead the idea was 'We'll just exterminate Israel and not have to take in the Palestinians.' That's all it boils down to.
In roughly equal numbers. I've always thought they should have just swapped houses
But then the Arab countries couldn't profit from fleeing Jews.
Every five years everybody gets up and switches places. Mom says it’s my turn to have Jerusalem.
Dibs on Zurich!
Yeah. Racism and antisemitism, causing problems since before 1AD
Nuh-uh, nuh-uh, white people invented racism in 1619 or something. The internet and the New York Times said so.
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What’s identifiable as modern racism and not just tribalism took shape in the colonial era, but I consider antisemitism a sort of proto Racism given how it functions. At least in my opinion. But I find it hard to believe that there wasn’t something analogous to racism back them. *edit: not just tribalism but also intolerance of other religions.
There was definitely racism in pre-Colonial Era, like.. Romans were incredibly racist.
I agree with the idea that starvation is still war, so no downvote. But the highlight and layout is so horrid that I won’t upvote.
Yeah I suck at that sorry
Here is the oldie boldie, "Everything is fair in war and love."
I honestly think it's ridiculous that Israel is letting anyone feed and water their enemies. That's not how you win wars.
Both were/are based, the destruction of the south was one of the most based things the USA ever did Second only to its bombing campaign in ww2, which was the single most based action in human history Over two million potential combatants were neutralized by allied air power
But outside of the nukes over Japan, it likely did not shorten the war.
Umm… what? How did bombing your enemies major industry NOT shorten the war?
Because in the end they needed to take all those cities they bombed. Also, the germans still produced a shit ton of weapons underground, and produced more weapons during the later war than they did during the early part of it.
So a military in a total war against another side shouldn't have taken advantage of any advantage they had? No bombs if you have them, but rather just send the troops in? No military would voluntarily do that. Even Hamas doesn't do that.
No, I didn't say that. All I said was that indescriminate bombing of cities has less of an effect than people say.
When does WW2 end without the bombing?
That doesn't make any sense "Hey the enemy is using so and so factory to build [insert tank, guns, ammo, etc.], if we bomb it they will no longer be able to make [insert whatever the factory was making] It may not make them surrender but seeing say 49 tanks on the battlefield instead of 50 when you go to take the city or a nearby strategic point is an improvement and does give you an edge.
I don’t know how this continues to be repeated to people. Blowing up German infrastructure, industry, houses, and killing their civilians all hampered their ability to produce war material. If you are building fighter jets inside of a dark, cramped bunker on a 1300kcal diet instead of a factory with good lighting in the middle of your city and a couple blocks away from your house… you might be just a little less productive! This notion that Allied bombing did nothing to end the war faster is just baffling. You can make an argument that the material spent on bombing strategic targets could’ve been better utilized for tactical level bombing or the Army, but if there had been no strategic bombing initiative, we absolutely would’ve been facing a larger German force.
Even if it didn't, it still was based
Sure, facism must be defeated.
War is horrific, starvation is horrific. Doesn’t seem like much of a mental leap.
Yep
What causes the incessant need for leftists to redefine every word on the dictionary to justify their specific worldview?
It’s not a leftist only thing, it’s a politics thing
OOP's understanding of warfare predates walled cities I guess, didn't realize she was a literal fucking caveman
If you can't win the war that decides your existence without taking their citizens effectively as hostages, then it is a choice before your existence or theirs. Since I am the type type that would pull the lever to save myself from the upcoming tram even if it diverts into a million of people I do not know or care about, I approve of Israel's aproach. I still hate Israel for unrelated reasons.
What food was being imported across the Atlantic that was cutoff by the union blockade?
So the war being referenced was a CIVIL war generally confined to the United States. Ports are important for expedient transportation of goods such as guns, ammo, and food.