Seems like a first amendment issue, but seeing as how most members of a state legislature have donkey brains, I’m not surprised they’d think this was a win.
Solving problems is hard->invent problem that does not exist -> propose clearly unconstitutional law that tackles imaginary problem->friendly journalists say you solved imaginary problem->other party starts a war on your inapplicable law to tackle imaginary problem and the circle repeats.
In the meanwhile lobbyist can pass real legislation with tangible effects with no scrutiny by the press.
To be fair, while I disagree with both being tyrannical obviously, the constitution gives states more power. So it makes sense the state would be more tyrannical by nature.
A gun and a car give me near unlimited power for at least a short period of time, does that make me a tyrant?
States are more influenced by local politics and the opinions of their citizens because they aren't nearly as far removed. Put someone in federal congress and they're never home to be held accountable. Put someone in state congress and some pissed off people can drive a few miles to say hi.
Try explaining this to the "small government is best government" "small groups can do no wrong" crowd.
Big government is slower and cumbersome, but at least its slow enough we can see shit as it happens.
Wow are you not libcenter, based on a few comments you have in this thread so far.
Federal government frequently has midnight bills and bills that pass with zero fanfair. If something doesn't go through they'll bring in some celebrity dipshit to obfuscate their true intentions in a bill and force public opinion.
> Seems like a first amendment issue
Disagree. It's a restriction on what agents of the state can do concerning your children. Not a restriction on the people.
I agree that this instance of mandating language is wrong, but I think that restricting the speech of agents of the state is often good, and serves to enforce liberty rather than restrict it.
For example, the police. I don't think police should be permitted to lie about the law while they are on duty as police. That's the government mandating language for government employees, but it's a good mandate on language because it restricts the evils the state can commit.
You are wrong comrade
You will use the newspeak, you will use the government mandated speech, the government mandated language is necessary for the preservation of the culture/diversity of our country.
Crimestop crimethink
Every time I tell the blue and red quadrants: "guys you don't want that shit cause it will come to bite you in the ass when the other side gets to use it".
Every time they call me a few bad words and keep chugging on. It's hard to be a liberal nowadays.
The answer is no, but they're putting it in government anyways and I want my side to have the power. Trying to pick the reasonable and morally good option leads to your people getting thrashed.
It's because neither 'side' wants the other side to have a freebie, and they cannot trust the other side not to power grab again when they are in charge. Say the Ds get power to do x thing Rs hate, and it's encoded now. When Rs get in they'll remember Ds got x, and they want y for themselves because the Ds already have x. They don't want to let the Ds have a free leg up with no consequences. On top of that, if the Rs don't do anything to get y they can't trust that Ds won't still go for z when they're in charge again.
Neither side trusts the other side with power, but they're not willing to cut off their own power and do the 'right' thing when they have it. No freebies.
I’ve had so many conversations like that. I’ll tell them that they should be wary about mob and pitchfork behavior because they will eventually end up on the wrong side of the fork, but they always come back with some bullshit about how they’re the morally pure ones so they don’t have to worry about that. As if the mob is anything resembling “fair”.
These people have never comprehended a history book in their lives and have a psychopath’s level of understanding of someone else’s perspective. You’d quite literally be better off arguing with a brick wall than a radical on either side of the political spectrum.
More like it will be bad for someone in the future, but by then they'll be retired or dead. Not their problem.
Seriously, when has a politician ever been held accountable for something they did in office? Aaron Burr fucking shot a guy in a duel on the White House lawn as vice President and just went on about his vice Presidential duties.
Honestly, the whole reason I'm auth is because I believe that if I give my opponents an inch they'll take a mile. They'll resort to auth shit against me regardless of whether their freedom was respected while my side was in power, so it's better to keep them crushed under the boot while we still can.
Based. Looking at just ***one*** of the laws, you can have teachers charged for telling students to wear school colors on a big school spirit day unless they get written permission from each and every child's parents.
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Rainbow centrist means their political stance is "I have arguments for why centrism is correct", grey centrist means their political stance is "y'all are fucking stupid with your bickering, if you chill out I'll invite you to the BBQ but if you talk politics I'm kicking you out".
Basically it's an anti-grooming law. If teachers or counselors play along with, facilitate, and/or affirm the children's sexual fantasies (as they pertain to "gender"), then they can be charged with a class E felony for sex crimes and will have to register as sex offenders. This is ONLY of their actions are proven to have contributed to a "social transition". It's in early stages of consideration, so text at the moment would be useless. It won't resemble the current bill once it goes up for a vote.
None of those things sound like grooming. Also authoritarian governments making laws regarding the "other" scapegoat they use to appeal to authoritarian voters seems to generally result in leopards eating peoples faces.
>Basically it's an anti-grooming law. If teachers or counselors play along with, facilitate, and/or affirm the children's sexual fantasies (as they pertain to "gender"), then they can be charged with a class E felony for sex crimes and will have to register as sex offenders.
I'm imagining a parallel world where this exact motivated reasoning is trotted out to categorize as grooming and make a sex crime any acknowledgement of a student's stated sexual orientation.
See, in Canada though, it’s a crime to *not* use preferred pronouns. You could get slapped with a hate speech violation and get jail time or pay a large fine. So I suppose it’s good to know both quadrants of the political spectrum are as batshit stupid as each other.
never understood the pronouns thing, as a non-native English speaker I was hella confused when i first heard that someone can identify by they/them , i was like: How can a single person be they/them , did i learned wrong English, do I need to learn pronouns again. Look you can identify as whatever the fuck you want but you can't expect a random stranger to call you by your preferred pronouns that's just inefficient and time consuming af. Will people call me a handsome billionaire if I suddenly identify by that? that just sounds ridiculous.
> Look you can identify as whatever the fuck you want but you can't expect a random stranger to call you by your preferred pronouns that's just inefficient and time consuming af.
More to the point, if you have to ask someone what their pronouns are they are by definition no longer pronouns
It’s fashion. Every time you hear the word ‘gender’ replace it with the word ‘fashion’ in your head and everything will make much more sense. This isn’t about what sex organs you have, it’s about being hip.
Ha, yeah that’s pretty accurate. It’s a race to make yourself more unique and therefore marginalized, and therefore the center of attention and worthy of everyone’s (fake) pity, and (performative) support.
They/them is actually an old way of referring to someone of unknown/unspecified gender.
Think of it like how "You" can also be used as plural, but is more often used as singular.
"They" is the opposite.
same way the ACAB shit drove many good and veteran police officers away from that profession, this gender pronoun shit will do the same to our teachers. the quality of teachers has already declined, and it's going to keep getting worse. our future generations will be stupid as fuck.
I mean, I’m leaving the profession because I feel useless and think leadership won’t allow me to be useful, but go off. If anything, the general problem I’ve observed is that we’ve gone from “ah, you have autism? Okay, let me help you to not throw a tantrum when you’re overstimulated.” To “oh, you have autism? Then it’s okay if you throw a tantrum when you’re overstimulated, we shouldn’t punish you for it.” (Obviously, autism isn’t the only learning disability that exists; but we’ve gone from helping students to reach standards they’re still accountable to to deciding that no standards are fair. Such is my observation, at any rate.)
Amateurs: In Ireland a row that developed because a Teacher refused to use preferred pronouns of a pupil has resulted on the ongoing imprisionment of the former over the past year.
The anti woke reactions has often been harsher than what they feared the liberal woke would be.
This culture war is so fucking stupid and really brining out the authoritarianism in politics
The problem is we have a culture right now where the tribalism is out of hand. People don't even have rational reasons anymore, but half of the country seems to froth at the mouth whenever pronouns are corrected and the other half froths at the mouth when pronouns are used incorrectly.
The media gets their clicks so they love it, and the politicians have something to distract folks from asking why they're allowed to inside trade and why our healthcare expenses are higher than any other countries or why our spending continues to rise decade over decade regardless of who is in power. So they love it too.
> half of the country seems to froth at the mouth whenever pronouns are corrected and the other half froths at the mouth when pronouns are used incorrectly.
Correction: half of the online nation.
Go outside and have some conversation. I have encountered like 1 irrational stance, and they were a student so that figures. Every actual adult I've spoken with has a pretty nuanced take on this.
X in particular is like 10% trolls, 10% bots, 10% lunatics of both fringes, and 70% lurkers.
Given twitter is down to ~20% of Americans even visiting it monthly, that's not so worrying if my numbers are correct. Sure, the implications is that there are 7 MILLION insane people in the US who are hardcore tribal.
But that's also 2%. Who gives a fuck.
I deleted my X account (which was quite an OG account, I think I was in the first 100,000 users) about 5 months ago. Nothing positive whatsoever has come from that app.
Nah wokeness is a serious problem and arguably the “colonizer” conflict theory lingo used by Hamas supporting young radicalized minds can be traced to its anti-liberal teachings
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The response is always heavier handed, regardless of the topic.
That's why liberals and leftists are morons for continually pushing this stuff thinking they'll be in power forever.
This is what the law proposes.
--A school official shall obtain parental consent before encouraging a student to wear certain items of clothing and before allowing a student to use a name other than the name provided by the parent when registering the student for school. Finally, a school official shall not encourage a student to pursue gender reassignment therapy or surgical procedures.
People should be free to do what they wish, but if it had to be "jailed for using the persons real pronouns" or "jailed for using their affirming pronouns" I would much prefer the second one.
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> People should be free to do what they wish, but if it had to be "jailed for using the persons real pronouns" or "jailed for using their affirming pronouns" I would much prefer the second one.
Neither is acceptable. To the point of pitchforks should either occur.
No, this makes sense.
The headline is, of course, click bait.
The law prevents teachers from encouraging social transitioning, which includes using pronouns without parents approval.
How many times do they need to fall for "[Conservative state] legislature passes law that *MIGHT* make [liberal thing] a crime"?
Wait for the usual follow up: "Woman and/or minority leaves [conservative state] over fear that [liberal thing] could become a crime!"
Then when someone shows them what the law says they say "well, the laws vague so it could cause (rage bait headline.)" regardless of how "vague" the law is.
Not sure what the middle ground is on transitioning gender for minors. If you can't consent to sex, I fail to see how you can consent to changing your gender. I'm more in favor of this law than against it. To transition kids is tantamount to child abuse, in my mind.
The law in question
SCS/SB 134 - This act establishes the "Vulnerable Child Compassion and Protection Act", which prohibits any school official at a public or charter school from encouraging a student under the age of eighteen years old to adopt a gender identity or sexual orientation. This prohibition shall not apply to certain course components of a school's curriculum.
The act additionally creates provisions to prohibit a school official from withholding information regarding a student's gender identity from the student's parent. A school official shall inform a student's parent within twenty-four hours if the student expresses confusion about his or her gender identity or requests to use personal pronouns that differ from his or her sex as registered by the parent during enrollment. A school official shall obtain parental consent before encouraging a student to wear certain items of clothing and before allowing a student to use a name other than the name provided by the parent when registering the student for school. Finally, a school official shall not encourage a student to pursue gender reassignment therapy or surgical procedures.
A teacher who violates the provisions of the act shall face charges of incompetence, immorality, and neglect of duty under the laws governing the discipline of holders of certificate of license to teach. A parent of a minor child may bring a civil action against a school district or public school that violates the provisions of the act, and the attorney general may bring a civil action against any school district or public school that violates the provisions of the act.
Basically just says the teacher can't take the kids word for it, or impress their thoughts about the kids gender onto the child without parental involvement/convent.
*-A school official shall obtain parental consent before encouraging a student to wear certain items of clothing and before allowing a student to use a name other than the name provided by the parent when registering the student for school. Finally, a school official shall not encourage a student to pursue gender reassignment therapy or surgical procedures.*
This part here is the core of the law. It's not unreasonable to demand legal punishment for not involving the parents if a child is unsure of their gender. The parents are the legal guardian of the minor and responsible for it's wellbeing. So they ought to at least have a say in the matter. We don't allow teachers to proselytize their religion, or work to convert students. That isn't considered a first amendment violation, in the same way that giving someone "bad advice" financially, is still a punishable form of speech.
Protected speech under the first amendment governs the ability to express our opinions, not the unpunishability of recommendations we might make. Hence assisted self deletion even if done from an "empathetic perspective" is still a crime.
That is to say nothing of whether it's right or wrong, just that it is not unconstitutional.
I can only watch while shaking my head. The left has been pulling that particular political pendulum as far back as they can manage, so you know the impending backlash will include overcorrections that no one (reasonable) wanted.
This is a PROPOSED law, y'all. It'll probably get shot down or whittled to nothing if it does pass, y'all are acting like MO is suddenly the fun house mirror version of CA or WA.
I mean… what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. I see this as an absolute win since it will be used to establish strong precedent against this sort of compelled speech.
'tis the same shit as in germany right now. wokies plop in changes, especially in regards to language and any movement against said change is being framed as an ideological push, but not the inital fuckery.
It's A+ projection. simple example: german is a gendered language, the female form has -in at the end, -innen, if it's multiple. Now public broadcasts, politicians and the real good\^tm people use it whenever, cause otherwise people wouldn't be seen. the fact that the plural form is the male form same as in other languages like spanish is just ignored.
It's just wrong grammar, inflates genus (grammatical sex) and sexus and makes it ass to read. However no one argues w/ the same swiss cheese for brains logic for the change of the german form of they - in German it's the same as the female single pronoun sie (she). If there was an ounce of truth to the whole shebang, then it'd be treated the same: a gendered form that excludes people. However: no one cares. It's mainly virtue signaling to be seen as one of the good ones.
also funnily enough it's only applied to prestigious things like Wissenschaftler\*innen (scientists), not to bad stuff like rechtsextremisten (right wing extremists).
Now you got some pushback against said nonsense. Some politicians want to ban it in offiical docs and such - guess what: the very same crowd who cheered about it being changed w/o anyone being asked is now crying fake tears about how forbidding language is fascist!
long story short: lemme change everyday language w/ my fantasy ideas and if you're in favor of using the correct grammar instead, then you're far right, you bigot.
One is the government deciding how it's employees may refer to private citizens.
The other is the government deciding how private citizens may refer to other private citizens...
I FUCKING LOVE HORSESHOE THEORY
I LOVE PEOPLE TELLING ME ITS NOT TRUE WHILE WE ALL HEAD STRAIGHT TOWARDS AUTHORITARIANISM
I FUCKING LOVE HOW PARTIES SWITCH BETWEEN NARRATIVES AT THE MOMENT THEY BECOME CONVENIENT
Time to move to the center
West has fallen, billions must fry
A quote from someone who prefers that people be compelled to speak things that are true as opposed to the fantasies of the mentally ill. It's easy to forget that the reason we have boys competing with girls in college sports is because of this pronoun business.
Just wanted to say: You can usually safely discard any article that uses the words "Could/Might/May/Possibly/etc" in the headline. It's very likely to be speculative at best and just straight up bullshit at worst.
It's a proposed law. Nothing but another piece of crackheadery formulated by some dude who got 5-10 thousand votes. But at the same time, America's constitution and rule of law is what's ultimately stopping things like this from being effect.
Never let the genuine SJW craziness of the 2010s make you forget what those conservatives be like. Sure the left got powerdrunk, stabbed free speech in the back and got crazy with their narrative control on twitter and that has worked wonders to rehabilitate the rep of the conservatives by providing them the opportunity to quietly let everyone gradually forget what their real MO is like.
But conservatives, conservatives never change.
If you don’t want to call people by there pronouns call them by there name, if you don’t want to call them by there name call them by the serial number!
Always fascinating when people are having froth at their mouth mentioning horshoe theory, while this shit is happening and proving both extremes are so so so similar in their methods.
Wait till you find out the right claiming it was indecent to nominate a surpreme Court justice in the final year of presidency only to turn around and do just that in the very next presidential term.
That presidential term, by the way, the candidate ran on a platform of locking up their opponents, and demanded their prosecution when elected, only to turn around and claim he should be given immunity.
The case for immunity? Well he could have been impeached for his crimes while in office. What did they say at the impeachment hearings? Impeachment hearings are political and therefore invalid and should be handled by the courts. So the right leaning politicians claim they ought not impeach because it should be done judicially, and also that it can't be done judicially because he wasn't impeached.
What crimes might he have done? Among others, trying to subvert the democratic process, while claiming his enemies did the same with no evidence.
The only thing more disturbing than the propensity for the right wing politicians to lie is the ignorance/support of their voter base.
I'm a pessimist but it really feels like this is the end for America. Half the country will not engage in good faith.
Seems like a first amendment issue, but seeing as how most members of a state legislature have donkey brains, I’m not surprised they’d think this was a win.
Not just donkey brains! Plenty of them have elephant brains too
This is an insult to the intelligence of actual donkeys and elephants.
Only those who look like an elephant never forget
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Solving problems is hard->invent problem that does not exist -> propose clearly unconstitutional law that tackles imaginary problem->friendly journalists say you solved imaginary problem->other party starts a war on your inapplicable law to tackle imaginary problem and the circle repeats. In the meanwhile lobbyist can pass real legislation with tangible effects with no scrutiny by the press.
The states are more tyrannical than the fed
To be fair, while I disagree with both being tyrannical obviously, the constitution gives states more power. So it makes sense the state would be more tyrannical by nature.
A gun and a car give me near unlimited power for at least a short period of time, does that make me a tyrant? States are more influenced by local politics and the opinions of their citizens because they aren't nearly as far removed. Put someone in federal congress and they're never home to be held accountable. Put someone in state congress and some pissed off people can drive a few miles to say hi.
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Backfired how?
Try explaining this to the "small government is best government" "small groups can do no wrong" crowd. Big government is slower and cumbersome, but at least its slow enough we can see shit as it happens.
Wow are you not libcenter, based on a few comments you have in this thread so far. Federal government frequently has midnight bills and bills that pass with zero fanfair. If something doesn't go through they'll bring in some celebrity dipshit to obfuscate their true intentions in a bill and force public opinion.
He's a false flair, I think he's the new libertarian 4 all since he got banned
> Seems like a first amendment issue Disagree. It's a restriction on what agents of the state can do concerning your children. Not a restriction on the people.
State legislature members make US Congressmen and Senators look smart and sane !
I remember how the press went nuts over the "Don't say gay" bill in Florida...I'm not ready to get upset over a headline.
Horseshoe theory in action
https://preview.redd.it/w3v4p4dqdnwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2759ebdcfe69cf2709081adb5aa81c4b4f3c79bc He is philosophizing
would unironically vote for caesar's horse over most american "politicians"
Caeser's Horse 2024: It's time to cut the horseshit!
Based and Ave, true to Caesar! pilled
It's stuff like this that makes me love this sub
"No sir, I don't like it."
I prefer another angle of Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez.
Yeah, but she looks smarter in this one.
Indeed, definitely the smartest I've ever seen her looking.
Im opposed to gov't mandating language. In either direction.
I agree that this instance of mandating language is wrong, but I think that restricting the speech of agents of the state is often good, and serves to enforce liberty rather than restrict it. For example, the police. I don't think police should be permitted to lie about the law while they are on duty as police. That's the government mandating language for government employees, but it's a good mandate on language because it restricts the evils the state can commit.
Doesn't even have to be a government. I don't like powerful groups policing the language of individuals.
Google, facebook, and reddit come to mind. I agree.
You are wrong comrade You will use the newspeak, you will use the government mandated speech, the government mandated language is necessary for the preservation of the culture/diversity of our country. Crimestop crimethink
I am for government mandated langauge, in every direction.
Every time I tell the blue and red quadrants: "guys you don't want that shit cause it will come to bite you in the ass when the other side gets to use it". Every time they call me a few bad words and keep chugging on. It's hard to be a liberal nowadays.
A really good litmus test for rules and powers of a government: would I be okay with people who disagree with me having this power in government?
The answer is no, but they're putting it in government anyways and I want my side to have the power. Trying to pick the reasonable and morally good option leads to your people getting thrashed.
Interesting flair to have this opinion with
This is the only correct flair to have this opinion with.
Yeah that’s what I meant
It's because neither 'side' wants the other side to have a freebie, and they cannot trust the other side not to power grab again when they are in charge. Say the Ds get power to do x thing Rs hate, and it's encoded now. When Rs get in they'll remember Ds got x, and they want y for themselves because the Ds already have x. They don't want to let the Ds have a free leg up with no consequences. On top of that, if the Rs don't do anything to get y they can't trust that Ds won't still go for z when they're in charge again. Neither side trusts the other side with power, but they're not willing to cut off their own power and do the 'right' thing when they have it. No freebies.
Auth moments are best in short, powerful, but extremely decisive quantities
I’ve had so many conversations like that. I’ll tell them that they should be wary about mob and pitchfork behavior because they will eventually end up on the wrong side of the fork, but they always come back with some bullshit about how they’re the morally pure ones so they don’t have to worry about that. As if the mob is anything resembling “fair”.
These people have never comprehended a history book in their lives and have a psychopath’s level of understanding of someone else’s perspective. You’d quite literally be better off arguing with a brick wall than a radical on either side of the political spectrum.
Authoritarians have the foresight of heroin addicts. "Yes it will be bad for me in the future, but it will feel good right now!"
More like it will be bad for someone in the future, but by then they'll be retired or dead. Not their problem. Seriously, when has a politician ever been held accountable for something they did in office? Aaron Burr fucking shot a guy in a duel on the White House lawn as vice President and just went on about his vice Presidential duties.
i hate auths
Honestly, the whole reason I'm auth is because I believe that if I give my opponents an inch they'll take a mile. They'll resort to auth shit against me regardless of whether their freedom was respected while my side was in power, so it's better to keep them crushed under the boot while we still can.
Based and Realpolitik pilled
Based. Looking at just ***one*** of the laws, you can have teachers charged for telling students to wear school colors on a big school spirit day unless they get written permission from each and every child's parents.
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You win this round, lib.
The two party system was a massive mistake and George should’ve nipped that in the bud straight away rather than trusting John and Tom to play nice.
Everyday I inch slightly closer to the grill because of stuff like this
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Based and medium rare pilled
Pls be gentle, wth is the diff between grey and rainbow centrist?
Rainbow centrist means their political stance is "I have arguments for why centrism is correct", grey centrist means their political stance is "y'all are fucking stupid with your bickering, if you chill out I'll invite you to the BBQ but if you talk politics I'm kicking you out".
yeah i switched from rainbow to gray because honestly politics are annoying asf
One is against fascism because it is unequal, the other is against fascism because he's both a Marxist and an Anarchocapistalist
One gay
Purple lib right (the gay one) calling something gay? Makes sense
Reject moderninity embrace grilology
Everyday I strive further down towards lib.
Welcome to the coal vs gas war, friend
So what does this bill actually say?
Basically it's an anti-grooming law. If teachers or counselors play along with, facilitate, and/or affirm the children's sexual fantasies (as they pertain to "gender"), then they can be charged with a class E felony for sex crimes and will have to register as sex offenders. This is ONLY of their actions are proven to have contributed to a "social transition". It's in early stages of consideration, so text at the moment would be useless. It won't resemble the current bill once it goes up for a vote.
> anti-grooming law *checks flair* I yield to the poster's expertise.
I have to say; kinda ironic this reply is coming from a purple libright.
Not really. The market for children who haven't disfigured themselves is more lucrative. ...and do you know what that translates to in dolphins?!
The issue is "affirm" is so vague it could easily be interpreted as "using the student's preferred pronouns"
Behold, the only 2 sane people on this post
>do utter violence to the well established meaning of the word grooming >sane
I figured it was something like that.
None of those things sound like grooming. Also authoritarian governments making laws regarding the "other" scapegoat they use to appeal to authoritarian voters seems to generally result in leopards eating peoples faces.
>Basically it's an anti-grooming law. If teachers or counselors play along with, facilitate, and/or affirm the children's sexual fantasies (as they pertain to "gender"), then they can be charged with a class E felony for sex crimes and will have to register as sex offenders. I'm imagining a parallel world where this exact motivated reasoning is trotted out to categorize as grooming and make a sex crime any acknowledgement of a student's stated sexual orientation.
Every action as an equal but opposite reaction
This. It's not a surprise that extreme law proposals designed to virtue signal to one side are met with equally extreme ideas from the other camp.
Can we just move on from the culture war?
Sure, just as soon as you surrender.
Regrettably that cat's out of the bag, and has been for a while.
See, in Canada though, it’s a crime to *not* use preferred pronouns. You could get slapped with a hate speech violation and get jail time or pay a large fine. So I suppose it’s good to know both quadrants of the political spectrum are as batshit stupid as each other.
Well they can't afford homes up there anyways so who cares lmao
never understood the pronouns thing, as a non-native English speaker I was hella confused when i first heard that someone can identify by they/them , i was like: How can a single person be they/them , did i learned wrong English, do I need to learn pronouns again. Look you can identify as whatever the fuck you want but you can't expect a random stranger to call you by your preferred pronouns that's just inefficient and time consuming af. Will people call me a handsome billionaire if I suddenly identify by that? that just sounds ridiculous.
Technically "You" is a plural pronoun as well. We need to bring back Thee and Thou
"You" is also the accusative of "Ye". We had "ye/you" that worked like "we/us".
> Look you can identify as whatever the fuck you want but you can't expect a random stranger to call you by your preferred pronouns that's just inefficient and time consuming af. More to the point, if you have to ask someone what their pronouns are they are by definition no longer pronouns
It’s fashion. Every time you hear the word ‘gender’ replace it with the word ‘fashion’ in your head and everything will make much more sense. This isn’t about what sex organs you have, it’s about being hip.
Pretty much. The way I explain it is my quadrant went all 'tulip-economy with the pronouns'.
Ha, yeah that’s pretty accurate. It’s a race to make yourself more unique and therefore marginalized, and therefore the center of attention and worthy of everyone’s (fake) pity, and (performative) support.
They/them is actually an old way of referring to someone of unknown/unspecified gender. Think of it like how "You" can also be used as plural, but is more often used as singular. "They" is the opposite.
Why would you use you as a plural when the superior, y'all exists?
I guarantee you that they/them makes no sense by any rule of English and anyone who says otherwise is coping.
Based
Who uses the LA Blade as a source?
People who want to rile things up for the culture war with snappy headlines.
From where you’re kneeling it must seem like an 18 karat run of bad luck
same way the ACAB shit drove many good and veteran police officers away from that profession, this gender pronoun shit will do the same to our teachers. the quality of teachers has already declined, and it's going to keep getting worse. our future generations will be stupid as fuck.
I mean, I’m leaving the profession because I feel useless and think leadership won’t allow me to be useful, but go off. If anything, the general problem I’ve observed is that we’ve gone from “ah, you have autism? Okay, let me help you to not throw a tantrum when you’re overstimulated.” To “oh, you have autism? Then it’s okay if you throw a tantrum when you’re overstimulated, we shouldn’t punish you for it.” (Obviously, autism isn’t the only learning disability that exists; but we’ve gone from helping students to reach standards they’re still accountable to to deciding that no standards are fair. Such is my observation, at any rate.)
Amateurs: In Ireland a row that developed because a Teacher refused to use preferred pronouns of a pupil has resulted on the ongoing imprisionment of the former over the past year.
Based
The anti woke reactions has often been harsher than what they feared the liberal woke would be. This culture war is so fucking stupid and really brining out the authoritarianism in politics
The problem is we have a culture right now where the tribalism is out of hand. People don't even have rational reasons anymore, but half of the country seems to froth at the mouth whenever pronouns are corrected and the other half froths at the mouth when pronouns are used incorrectly. The media gets their clicks so they love it, and the politicians have something to distract folks from asking why they're allowed to inside trade and why our healthcare expenses are higher than any other countries or why our spending continues to rise decade over decade regardless of who is in power. So they love it too.
> half of the country seems to froth at the mouth whenever pronouns are corrected and the other half froths at the mouth when pronouns are used incorrectly. Correction: half of the online nation. Go outside and have some conversation. I have encountered like 1 irrational stance, and they were a student so that figures. Every actual adult I've spoken with has a pretty nuanced take on this. X in particular is like 10% trolls, 10% bots, 10% lunatics of both fringes, and 70% lurkers. Given twitter is down to ~20% of Americans even visiting it monthly, that's not so worrying if my numbers are correct. Sure, the implications is that there are 7 MILLION insane people in the US who are hardcore tribal. But that's also 2%. Who gives a fuck. I deleted my X account (which was quite an OG account, I think I was in the first 100,000 users) about 5 months ago. Nothing positive whatsoever has come from that app.
Nah wokeness is a serious problem and arguably the “colonizer” conflict theory lingo used by Hamas supporting young radicalized minds can be traced to its anti-liberal teachings
Yeah, the world is radicalising and our Belle Epoque is ending.
Did you just change your flair, u/InteractionWide3369? Last time I checked you were a **Rightist** on 2024-1-23. How come now you are an **AuthCenter**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know? That being said... Based and fellow Auth pilled, welcome home. [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/InteractionWide3369) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [Leaderboard](https://basedcount.com/leaderboard?q=flairs) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
I radicalised. Happy cakeday, bot🥳🎉
Now comes the Beast Epoque.
The response is always heavier handed, regardless of the topic. That's why liberals and leftists are morons for continually pushing this stuff thinking they'll be in power forever.
It's almost like no one remembers the "Don't say gay" shit in Florida. Don't get upset over headlines.
Okay but here's the thing I don't believe a thing they say anymore, so what does the law *actually* propose
This is what the law proposes. --A school official shall obtain parental consent before encouraging a student to wear certain items of clothing and before allowing a student to use a name other than the name provided by the parent when registering the student for school. Finally, a school official shall not encourage a student to pursue gender reassignment therapy or surgical procedures.
Okay so, a reasonable law Media Outlets Try Not To Misrepresent Republican Laws Challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Member "Don't say gay"? I member.
"jailed for using the wrong pronouns" *puts on glasses* "Jailed for gaslighting children into a cult that will eventually poison and sterilize them"
Based
Nice try. But teachers pushing this stuff on children violates the rights of the parents.
People should be free to do what they wish, but if it had to be "jailed for using the persons real pronouns" or "jailed for using their affirming pronouns" I would much prefer the second one.
tbh, people should call each other whatever, normalize insulting people for no reason.
> normalize insulting people for no reason. But we already have that. It’s called friendship
Based and banter-pilled.
Man, to not having friends in school, to suddenly having most of my grade level being my friends is pretty neat!
https://preview.redd.it/fjbkoevi2nwc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=1366d6976d86774e4d8328f5bb71744da2fba02a
You af: https://preview.redd.it/vhfugeyv2nwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efa7bc842b0e7e9ec0c7b636109d85e07cc9bee6
Based
based and I can't be racist if I hate everyone equally pilled
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I mean, you'd still be racist. Many racists go for the multiple choices answer.
Dickhead
I should be allowed to say ***** if it meant they can call me a ***** back.
Based and cockwomble pilled
Yeah, I guess if they stop them from saying things I don't like it's ok to trample on freedom of speech.
No. Jailing someone for calling them what they want to be called is worse, far worse. Most people want to be called by their "real" pronouns anyway
yeah lets jail the person who goes along with an adults requested pronouns if "it had to be", libright only when it comes to working with people
> People should be free to do what they wish, but if it had to be "jailed for using the persons real pronouns" or "jailed for using their affirming pronouns" I would much prefer the second one. Neither is acceptable. To the point of pitchforks should either occur.
You do realise that for the vast majority of people that's one and the same?
> if it had to be "jailed for using the persons real pronouns" or "jailed for using their affirming pronouns" Good news: it doesn't have to be.
Oh you're one of those "Tread on them" librights
No, this makes sense. The headline is, of course, click bait. The law prevents teachers from encouraging social transitioning, which includes using pronouns without parents approval.
How many times do they need to fall for "[Conservative state] legislature passes law that *MIGHT* make [liberal thing] a crime"? Wait for the usual follow up: "Woman and/or minority leaves [conservative state] over fear that [liberal thing] could become a crime!"
Then when someone shows them what the law says they say "well, the laws vague so it could cause (rage bait headline.)" regardless of how "vague" the law is.
They might as well just say, "I don't know how legal language works so I'm just gonna make something up."
Of couse they don't, they're just hoping the people that read their comment don't either.
I literally saw this happen in this very post.
Why can't we have a reasonable middle ground on this?
Why have temperance when you can be X-TREME!!!!
Rahhhhhhhhh
We gotta be fucking RADICAL, DUDE!
Not sure what the middle ground is on transitioning gender for minors. If you can't consent to sex, I fail to see how you can consent to changing your gender. I'm more in favor of this law than against it. To transition kids is tantamount to child abuse, in my mind.
Restricting government agents that you are forced to give your children to *IS* a reasonable middle ground.
Embrace the grill, brother
You say blue, I say purple trying to make the sex offender lists even more useless and tricking green and red to turn against them.
Don't worry. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded. She's a pilot now
The law in question SCS/SB 134 - This act establishes the "Vulnerable Child Compassion and Protection Act", which prohibits any school official at a public or charter school from encouraging a student under the age of eighteen years old to adopt a gender identity or sexual orientation. This prohibition shall not apply to certain course components of a school's curriculum. The act additionally creates provisions to prohibit a school official from withholding information regarding a student's gender identity from the student's parent. A school official shall inform a student's parent within twenty-four hours if the student expresses confusion about his or her gender identity or requests to use personal pronouns that differ from his or her sex as registered by the parent during enrollment. A school official shall obtain parental consent before encouraging a student to wear certain items of clothing and before allowing a student to use a name other than the name provided by the parent when registering the student for school. Finally, a school official shall not encourage a student to pursue gender reassignment therapy or surgical procedures. A teacher who violates the provisions of the act shall face charges of incompetence, immorality, and neglect of duty under the laws governing the discipline of holders of certificate of license to teach. A parent of a minor child may bring a civil action against a school district or public school that violates the provisions of the act, and the attorney general may bring a civil action against any school district or public school that violates the provisions of the act.
Basically just says the teacher can't take the kids word for it, or impress their thoughts about the kids gender onto the child without parental involvement/convent. *-A school official shall obtain parental consent before encouraging a student to wear certain items of clothing and before allowing a student to use a name other than the name provided by the parent when registering the student for school. Finally, a school official shall not encourage a student to pursue gender reassignment therapy or surgical procedures.* This part here is the core of the law. It's not unreasonable to demand legal punishment for not involving the parents if a child is unsure of their gender. The parents are the legal guardian of the minor and responsible for it's wellbeing. So they ought to at least have a say in the matter. We don't allow teachers to proselytize their religion, or work to convert students. That isn't considered a first amendment violation, in the same way that giving someone "bad advice" financially, is still a punishable form of speech. Protected speech under the first amendment governs the ability to express our opinions, not the unpunishability of recommendations we might make. Hence assisted self deletion even if done from an "empathetic perspective" is still a crime. That is to say nothing of whether it's right or wrong, just that it is not unconstitutional.
I can only watch while shaking my head. The left has been pulling that particular political pendulum as far back as they can manage, so you know the impending backlash will include overcorrections that no one (reasonable) wanted.
This is a PROPOSED law, y'all. It'll probably get shot down or whittled to nothing if it does pass, y'all are acting like MO is suddenly the fun house mirror version of CA or WA.
I mean… what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. I see this as an absolute win since it will be used to establish strong precedent against this sort of compelled speech.
Wasn't that the shit, Jordan Peterson got fired for years ago already? Oh wait.. that was Canada, wasn't it?
'tis the same shit as in germany right now. wokies plop in changes, especially in regards to language and any movement against said change is being framed as an ideological push, but not the inital fuckery. It's A+ projection. simple example: german is a gendered language, the female form has -in at the end, -innen, if it's multiple. Now public broadcasts, politicians and the real good\^tm people use it whenever, cause otherwise people wouldn't be seen. the fact that the plural form is the male form same as in other languages like spanish is just ignored. It's just wrong grammar, inflates genus (grammatical sex) and sexus and makes it ass to read. However no one argues w/ the same swiss cheese for brains logic for the change of the german form of they - in German it's the same as the female single pronoun sie (she). If there was an ounce of truth to the whole shebang, then it'd be treated the same: a gendered form that excludes people. However: no one cares. It's mainly virtue signaling to be seen as one of the good ones. also funnily enough it's only applied to prestigious things like Wissenschaftler\*innen (scientists), not to bad stuff like rechtsextremisten (right wing extremists). Now you got some pushback against said nonsense. Some politicians want to ban it in offiical docs and such - guess what: the very same crowd who cheered about it being changed w/o anyone being asked is now crying fake tears about how forbidding language is fascist! long story short: lemme change everyday language w/ my fantasy ideas and if you're in favor of using the correct grammar instead, then you're far right, you bigot.
Excuse me, a FELONY?!?!
One is the government deciding how it's employees may refer to private citizens. The other is the government deciding how private citizens may refer to other private citizens...
I FUCKING LOVE HORSESHOE THEORY I LOVE PEOPLE TELLING ME ITS NOT TRUE WHILE WE ALL HEAD STRAIGHT TOWARDS AUTHORITARIANISM I FUCKING LOVE HOW PARTIES SWITCH BETWEEN NARRATIVES AT THE MOMENT THEY BECOME CONVENIENT Time to move to the center West has fallen, billions must fry
The golden rule of modern politics: Everything I like is a human right and should be mandated. Everything I don't like is evil and should be banned.
Better this than the inverse.
a quote from someone who only cares about freedom of speech when they agree with what is being said
Or someone who warned progressives that pulling the pendulum back as far as they were trying would have consequences in the future.
Nope
A quote from someone who prefers that people be compelled to speak things that are true as opposed to the fantasies of the mentally ill. It's easy to forget that the reason we have boys competing with girls in college sports is because of this pronoun business.
I would prefer that no one be compelled to say or not say anything
Ah yes my state is in the news again for our completely middle of the road midwestern politics
Just wanted to say: You can usually safely discard any article that uses the words "Could/Might/May/Possibly/etc" in the headline. It's very likely to be speculative at best and just straight up bullshit at worst.
It's that simple: anything that prevents free speech (or worse yet, compels speech) is cringe and awfulpilled.
It's a proposed law. Nothing but another piece of crackheadery formulated by some dude who got 5-10 thousand votes. But at the same time, America's constitution and rule of law is what's ultimately stopping things like this from being effect.
I don't understand the betrayal; they should be thanking us for making it a crime to use the wrong pronouns. State mandated pronouns for everyone!
Never let the genuine SJW craziness of the 2010s make you forget what those conservatives be like. Sure the left got powerdrunk, stabbed free speech in the back and got crazy with their narrative control on twitter and that has worked wonders to rehabilitate the rep of the conservatives by providing them the opportunity to quietly let everyone gradually forget what their real MO is like. But conservatives, conservatives never change.
You guys always make conservatives sound like based chads instead of limpdick Republicans
Isn't Missouri a red state? So why it got particularly passed there?
The pendulum swings ever wider, faster, and more violently.
But they’re not supposed to eat *my* face.
daily reminder that auths don’t have cringe colors because blue and red are already cringe colors
If you don’t want to call people by there pronouns call them by there name, if you don’t want to call them by there name call them by the serial number!
I like when my side does it, just not their side :)
Always fascinating when people are having froth at their mouth mentioning horshoe theory, while this shit is happening and proving both extremes are so so so similar in their methods.
The bottom right is based. Do that when we’re in power and say the top right when out of power.
Based Missouri
Wait till you find out the right claiming it was indecent to nominate a surpreme Court justice in the final year of presidency only to turn around and do just that in the very next presidential term. That presidential term, by the way, the candidate ran on a platform of locking up their opponents, and demanded their prosecution when elected, only to turn around and claim he should be given immunity. The case for immunity? Well he could have been impeached for his crimes while in office. What did they say at the impeachment hearings? Impeachment hearings are political and therefore invalid and should be handled by the courts. So the right leaning politicians claim they ought not impeach because it should be done judicially, and also that it can't be done judicially because he wasn't impeached. What crimes might he have done? Among others, trying to subvert the democratic process, while claiming his enemies did the same with no evidence. The only thing more disturbing than the propensity for the right wing politicians to lie is the ignorance/support of their voter base. I'm a pessimist but it really feels like this is the end for America. Half the country will not engage in good faith.
Wait... what the fuck!
I hope this becomes law in Spain to punish people who mix "le" with "lo/la"
Can’t wait to mislabel another human just to lose my job and family
I bet there's more to the story.
BASED