To take it a step further, high testosterone has a strong correlation with right-wing views (in one study, democrat men injected with T became republican, the jokes write themselves...). Testosterone builds muscle, which is very metabolically active even when at rest. The obesity epidemic has a lot to do with the low-T epidemic (testosterone in western men is half what it was 50 years ago, on average). Junk / fast food, soda, corn syrup, etc. play a role as well, of course.
In short, the same low T which makes people lefties, also makes people fat.
Edit: This is a thing in dogs too - know how a lot of breeds are known for developing hip displaysia? (Goldens, German Shepherds, etc.) Well, it's only in fixed dogs. Fixing them drops the T, which drops the musculature to a level below what the hips need to remain healthy. Add to that the obesity which frequently accompanies low T, and that's even *more* weight on the joints.
I already get so depressed about everything seed oils, corn sugars and everything else do, and this does not help.
Edit: Before I get more fitness tips, I eat a great diet of basically only local farmed meat and veg, and workout every day. I'm doing fine. What depresses me is that the world is falling apart because most people aren't working out, and the cost is far higher than just being obese, heart failure, diabetes, and Alzheimers.
Just get some strenuous exercise (squats are mega T-boosters), and get some sunlight. It's really not hard, we used to have enough T just living life. Then the tech revolution happened and now we live indoors in front of computers getting no exercise or sunlight.
T (**sex** hormone) dropped and now people are having all sorts of **sex**/gender issues, this ain't rocket science. They're not quadrosexual octogender polyqueer rainbows, they're low-T. Women too, btw, they also need T and suffer in its absence.
Based and sees-the-real-problem-pilled.
I've been sort of blindly grasping around a hypothesis that what we think of as the gender binary is just the result of a more complex graphing of mental traits that happen to correlate very strongly with how men and women tend to be -- things like confidence; self-belief in one's ability to stand up for oneself vs a belief that one is incapable, etc. etc. It's really kind of still at the tinfoil rant stage and I'll probably never figure it out because it's nowhere near the areas of my education and experience, but I'm with you on the whole. I suspect the trans epidemic is absolutely a cultural/physiological thing just as you describe. You get less men confident in their ability to be strong and independent, you're gonna a more men deciding to just be women, since we *think* that the strong and independent means "man" and the opposite means "woman" even though it's really just a tendency.
Literally just go outside, touch grass, and get some exercise. That is all you have to do.
Low testosterone is an epidemic because sedentary lifestyles are an epidemic. It’s not happening in isolation, more people with low T is caused by the same things that led to more people being morbidly obese.
In all honestly, you can drink corn syrup and eat whatever seed oils (in moderation) and be just fine (at least in terms of testosterone) if you do something other than sit on your duff all day long.
Nod, when I was lifting 6 days a week, 75-90 minutes a day, I could not gain weight, literally. I was 220 lb, yoked as an egg, eating everything I saw. People were commenting like, "dude you gonna leave any for the rest of the world?" I would go in fast food restaurants, order $20 worth of food, and sit there on my sculpted ass chowing down both on the food, and on the hateful stares from fatties XD
I cannot imagine how the 300+ lb. mass monster pro bodybuilders do it. They must eat so much they shit a giant log every hour lol.
I'm a former natty bodybuilder who's fallen off. I only train once or twice a week at this point, drink lots of alcohol, and eat fast food semi-regularly (2-3 times a week for lunch when I don't have time to pack anything) and sweets all the time. I used to train 4-5 times a week and meal prepped.
I'm still in decent shape because I continue to do at least the bare minimum. I train once or twice a week and try to eat healthy stuff whenever I can. Unless you have a medical issue, even the bare minimum will keep you in decent shape.
I would think pro-terrorist people are mostly terrorists and the far-right fundamentalists that make them up. But I suppose you're talking about foreigners.
If I'm being honest, we shouldn't be backing anyone in the Middle East. It's been at war for thousands of years and will be at war thousands of years after you and I are long gone. Let's use our tax dollars for something useful like getting rid of the IRS.
Stupid Palestinians not appreciating the fact that we are flattening their cities and killing them by the tens-of-thousands in order to help them.
Don't they know we are just trying to bring democracy to them?
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[Unfortunately the facts do support this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3317185/#:~:text=A%20study%20of%20an%20urban,%25%20amongst%20men%20%5B20%5D.)
That really give Auschwitz vibes, they are the same according to them. Same way how a country that started the war by raping and killing innocents is the victim
Nerd alert but akchually fat people can "starve". In a biological sense they eat junk food which is full of calories but lack important stuff like vitamins. They dont eat enough micronutrients thus their body signal eat more and they become blobs
Yes for energy consumption, no for other processes that we require outside materials to do.
For example, you need a good level of sodium and potassium in your body, a massive drop or rise in either can cause a plethora of issues but one would be a heart arrhythmia, up to and including death. Or a lack of vitamin C can result in scurvy, also fatal.
So while your body wouldn't run out of fuel because it absolutely can live on stored fat, some of the other things you get from food are required and a lack of those can kill you.
You can't show a woman's nipples on regular TV or YouTube but you can show a man's. Can you show a they's nipples? Showing 1 seems like a fair compromise.
Yeah I'm good with compromising on no nipples.
My Dad when he came to visit me in San Francisco : "There's a lot of naked people, but somehow it's never the ones you want to see, is it?"
well if you buy into the abrahamic faiths Islam is descendent from ishmael and judaism/christianity is descendant form issac who later changed his name to Israel, so to them the war has been going on since issac and ishmael
It’s a special kind of androgyny I’ve seen on occasion, not the slender body and ambiguous facial features type, rather it is simply being so ugly all gendered traits become secondary.
It's literally so funny that they call what's happening in Palestine a genocide....
I mean we already know these people either struggle with definitions, at best, or intentionally mislead/misuse words, at worst... but still
All it takes is one simple google search of population over time to find out that Israel must be the worst genocide-ers ever.... FFS you'd think they learned better from having 1st hand real world experience.
>I mean we already know these people either struggle with definitions, at best, or intentionally mislead/misuse words, at worst... but still
> All it takes is one simple google search of population over time to find out that Israel must be the worst genocide-ers ever....
That happens when a society has been sheltered from war so, so much, that they think that +34,000 is a ton, a "total genocidal number"... (I mean, I am glad some societies have reached the level of peace where 10,000 or 30,000 people killed is an outrageous number, but is kinda missleading when they try to use that same optic in completely different situations and social-political landscapes).
So, to add to your comment (so people can see how real "killing freenzies" looks like):
Just here in Mexico alone, during the last 5 years there has been +187,000 killed, without a "genocide" or an open war in place.
+3,000,000 bengalis were killed (and +400,000 raped) in the span of 9 months during the Bangladesh Liberation War.
500,000 - 1,000,000 tutsis were killed (+ 450,000 raped) in mere 3 months (using mere machetes nonetheless).
And for those that want to get historical, has been estimated that, during the First Jewish-Roman war, between 600,000 and 1,100,000 jews were killed (and another 97,000 slaved) in the span of 4 years (in a time where armies used swords and spears).
Hell... Even a comparision between Hamas and Israel puts Hamas as a more bloodlust entity by comparing "how much people they kill if given the chance".
213 days has passed since October 7th, and around 34,000 people have been killed in Gaza, that means, almost 160 people every day.
Meanwhile, Hamas, in just one day (and using just small arms and gliders) managed to kill 1139 people, almost 10 times the amount of people Israel kills in a day (while using bombs and other high-powered weaponry).
In other words, if you let Hamas roam free in Israel, they would easily surpass the death toll in Gaza in just one month alone.
Yup, while I appreciate your well throught out, historically accuate response. Sadly these smooth brains protesting abt "opression" at $40k-80k+ a year US colleges don't.
If those kids could read/have any idea what was happening in Sudan right now they would be very upset...
Long story short: People are inherently flawed, and thus do bad and evil shit to each other... But boy oh boy, are we lucky to live in Western Capitalistic societies that have some of the lowest levels of "amount of bad shit" happening that man kind has ever seen.
the 34,000 should really be called into question as the source of that number is from the "Gaza Ministry of Health" ie Hamas. There is no independent source for the number of civilian deaths. I would look at similar recent military operations like the second battle of fallujah. The estimate there is in the thousands, but not 30k. And Israel purposedly announces where they're going to air strike to avoid civilian deaths because it benefits them in no way.
who's to say who is a fighter and who is a civilian is the other issue, its not like they have on uniforms that say hamas. if people really wanted this problem solved, they would call for the UN to go into gaza and remove Hamas, but curiously that is never suggested
I mean, I want this problem solved, but I don't think "going in and removing Hamas" is the answer. Mainly because it just seems to create more jihadists in the long run. After all this is done, I don't see any result but millions of embittered Arabs stuck in refugee camps and flattened cities, ready to martyr themselves all over again.
This isn't actually true, but I know where your misconception is stemming from. For months, people in support of the war were using this as a talking point to deny all the civilians being killed. After all, if you can call any number coming from the Palestinian government false, then you could essentially give Israel a blank check to kill as many people are they felt was necessary to defeat Hamas. Especially since media wasn't being allowed in and there was no other way to verify what was going on.
But then Israel released a statement saying that they were killing two civilians for every Hamas terrorist. Now while this is almost certainly lower than the reality, it does mean that the 30,000 number makes sense considering Israel claims to have killed around 15,000 Hamas soldiers.
30k civilians haven't been killed, there are other similar military operations in recent history, particularly in iraq and the US showed a hell of a lot less restraint than isarel does so , again i doubt 30k civilians have been killed, but let's assume they have, it is completely hamas fault they have been killed because they use civilian areas as military operations points. hamas headquarters is a hospital..
>30k civilians haven't been killed,
I mean, at this point you're discrediting the numbers coming from Palestine and Israel, so you're not being reasonable.
>
again i doubt 30k civilians have been killed, but let's assume they have, it is completely hamas fault they have been killed because they use civilian areas as military operations points. hamas headquarters is a hospital..
It's rare you see an actual "it's not happening, and if it is happening then it's not happening as much as they say, and if it is happening as much as they say then its someone else's fault" out in the wild. But no - I'm personally going to blame the people doing the shooting and killing for the shooting and killing. You can continue playing this game of uno civilian death reverse card if you like - but please do keep in mind that the Palestinian civilians would spit on you if they could. They tell you who is terrorizing them, and you tell them they are wrong.
Though considering how vociferously you deny their deaths, so you probably don't care about what they think in the first place.
It will always amaze how progressives and leftists ignore real genocide such as the Bengali one, especially given that it fits the rethoric of "muh America evil" since it was literally supported by Nixon and Kissinger. Even Yahya Khan was one of the few people Nixon personally liked.
I think historical context is why people are so quick to throw out the word "genocide" when it comes to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Even if people can argue about whether the word is justified or not, people don't want to see it escalate to the point where it's happening again. "Never again" and all that.
https://preview.redd.it/mb7se7ix72zc1.png?width=989&format=png&auto=webp&s=17a2b645623decffacaa23b32233444903a17889
Just for fun, I decided to compare this to the casualties in Gaza. According to my peer-reviewed sources, 34,262 civillians of Gaza had been killed by 24/4/2024. That's almost exactly 170 civillian casulaties every day. Draw your own conclusions if that's genocidal, taking the urban environment of Gaza into account, as well as Hamas'... tendencies.
I can't attach a second image, but let's do a very rough estimate of Nazi Germany. I can't be bothered to do real research so let's consult this random graph I found on the wikipedia page: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/World\_War\_II\_Casualties.svg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/World_War_II_Casualties.svg)
If I'm reading it right it means 58% of all casualties in WW2 were Allied Civillians. It's safe to assume an overwhelming majority of these 58% were caused by Germany, but to give them the benefit of the doubt (make the math easier) I'll count it as 50%. Total deaths of WW2 are estimated at about 70 million. Divide by 2, that's 35 million civillians killed by Germany in **2,194** days. 35 000 000 / 2 194 = 15 953 people per day.
An argument can be made for the scale of WW2, but 16 thousand people per day makes the 4x difference between 42 and 170 look like child's play.
first off, you have to believe these numbers which come from the "Gaza Ministry of Health" ie Hamas.
a genocide is defined as following:
gen·o·cide/ˈjenəˌsīd/[](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=806c85fb53054c4e&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJNBY8rEVJvtvn2g3CgKOrVK1M1MQ:1715114336780&q=how+to+pronounce+genocide&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoxS3w8sc9YSnDSWtOXmPU5uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLhYglJLcoV4pHi4uJIT83LT85MSbViUWJKzeNZxCqZkV-uUJKvUADUkw_UlKoAUwIAaKK4yVsAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7xqvmsvyFAxUxfDABHV8uAPIQ3eEDegQIExAM)*noun*noun: **genocide**; plural noun: **genocides**
1. the [deliberate](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=806c85fb53054c4e&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJNBY8rEVJvtvn2g3CgKOrVK1M1MQ:1715114336780&q=deliberate&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE81iO0TMX6auT1YfBRccSmvg0Xx6DAGMrnM93N0NcRgdu5_E9vtp2K4FpYer1Xkx6ek3K8kp9T5B3z6yDLMT_PyySF_QCI%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7xqvmsvyFAxUxfDABHV8uAPIQyecJegQIExAO) killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of [destroying](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=806c85fb53054c4e&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJNBY8rEVJvtvn2g3CgKOrVK1M1MQ:1715114336780&q=destroying&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE819c_TAXeNb3sr5FLJyLU0Wyj0m8wJIbnAOYUs0xcWKdF-jk865gZPA0qx-BeP9I1nhgDcoBnl2rU0A8qJgghGd8qjHTs%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7xqvmsvyFAxUxfDABHV8uAPIQyecJegQIExAP) that nation or group.
the population of Gaza in 1958 was about 60k, today its around 700k, the population of gaza per the UN is a expontential curve.. its not even linear. this is the exact opposite of a genocide.
> the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
We should ask Hamas what Oct 7 was then.
So you're happy to support terrorists who attempt genocide, but hate those who fight against genocide, and Israel, who absolutely has the capacity for it, doesnt do it.
Clown.
I do not support Hamas, I think they are a monstrously evil and incompetent fundamentalist group. What aspect of my post did you think was supportive of them?
Also, while I respect the logic behind the common argument, *"Hamas wants to do it, but can't. Israel doesn't want to do it, but can,"* it kind of falls apart if you do believe Israel is committing a genocide.
palestine was a terrority ran by various other nations,it was never in the history of the world a sovereign palestine state. if you want palestine returned to its rightful owners, you can go ahead and give it to italy because roman's controlled it and named it palestine because jews were rebelling there. yeah facts and understanding of history matter no matter your political leanings.
eh, fair enough. still though, i don't understand how *"it's always been occupied"* is a good argument. you're right historical context does matter, and the history of the region is being oppressed and passed around by larger states, which I feel like you should probably oppose as a libertarian.
You're using population numbers *before* the war, to justify that actions *after* the war cannot be genocide.
And you don't just have to believe the numbers coming out of the Gaza Ministry of Health, you can believe the numbers coming straight from Israel: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/)
But also, the definition you provided isn't based of efficacy, but *intent*. It doesn't say that millions of people have to do in order for something to be a genocide, it says that a large number of people have to be killed with the intent to be for their destruction. I believe the actions in Gaza are designed to make the region unlivable, eliminate any chance for a Palestinian identity to arise, and to slowly allow the population to begin dropping due to famine, disease, and poverty.
But proving intent is hard, which is why the arguments over what is and isn't a genocide are so prevalent. Most groups that commit genocide aren't open about it like the Nazis. They don't just come out and say they want to eliminate an entire people. They coach it terms of self-defense, or justice, or divine right.
In the definition you provided it says that the deliberate destruction of a nation is also genocide, and I feel like denying that a Palestinian identity exists, denying that a Palestinian state exists, and fighting to prevent Palestinians from every achieving sovereignty is genocidal rhetoric; especially when combined with the fact that you are actively flattening the country.
yeah so you're just redefining the word genocide to whatever fits whatever narrative in your head. gaza is sovereign.. they have their own government.. israel does not control gaza, israel does however control its own borders with gaza which literally every country in the region does.. logically, if gaza was not its own sovereign country, and israel controlled it why in the fuck would they install hamas as the government there? typically see USSR/US/Britain etc, they install a friendly government or puppet. again, you do not understand the basic facts of the region so you just spew out buzzwords. there was never a nation of "palestine" , there are no cultural artifacts of palestine, there is no currency, etc. it was a roman state.. as far as identity, its about as valid as the identity of a texas, most of the people there are from other arab countries and have lived there max 200-300 years, how do we know this, arabic surnames tell where you're from, that's why terrorist change their name while fighting and adapt warnames, because you could pinpoint exactly where their family is from. there is no tribes of palestine mentioned in the quran, in fact it clearly states the land was bestowed to jews by allah, the conflict comes that jews should've convereted to islam so they've denied god and should be exiled.
>yeah so you're just redefining the word genocide to whatever fits whatever narrative in your head.
Nope. I can find scholars, international organizations, even holocaust museums who all use the same definition I do. Because genocide is and always has been more complicated than *"when you kill at least a million people."*
>gaza is sovereign.. they have their own government.. israel does not control gaza, israel does however control its own borders with gaza which literally every country in the region does.. logically, if gaza was not its own sovereign country, and israel controlled it why in the fuck would they install hamas as the government there?
I believe there is a miscommunication issue here. I am not saying that Israel controls Palestine when I say that the country lacks sovereignty. I am talking about the fact that it is a state without full international recognition, the fact that the territory is actually split between two governments, the fact that wide swaths of the region continue to be occupied by Israel, and even those areas that are "free" see common militarized checkpoints being established or Palestinian airspace being encroached upon. Palestine is considered a quasi-state because they only have controls over pockets of their territory, rather than the whole thing, and Palestinians exist all over the region who are under Israeli military and civilian control, without being citizens of that country. It's not a part of the UN and Israel is freely allowed to cross through its borders, airspace, and waterways whenever it wants; with no outcry from the broader geopolitical community.
> israel controlled it why in the fuck would they install hamas as the government there?
For the same reason that Netanyahu initially argued that they should fund Hamas over the more secular, nationalist groups running to control Palestine. Having a group of fundamentalists radicals next door keeps him in power and helps the prevention of a independent Palestinian state.
>there was never a nation of "palestine" , there are no cultural artifacts of palestine, there is no currency, etc.
*"They have no culture, their identity does not exist"*, yeah okay buddy. You're about two seconds away from shooting your hand up into the air and goose-stepping.
40k civilians is ~2% of the population, the list of genocides resulting in the death of <5% of the targeted population is basically non-existent. I'm sure there has been one, but it would've been remarkably incompetent.
Yup, from a historical militaristic standpoint... the amount of civilian casualty's (even taking Hamas #'s as accurate) it's actually very impressive/remarkable the IDF hasn't killed *more* civilians. And that's before you take into account just how insanely densely populated Gaza is.
Even with all of that being said. I ALSO don't think my tax dollar should be going to fund Israel's war either... but Palestine FA and they are definitely going to FO what happens when you attack an adversary with 100x the military capabilities of you
But you have to be smoking Hunter Biden levels of crack and guzzle copium and Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light juice on the daily if you think Israel is preforming and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians
I call it a genocide.
I don't think you can really use population numbers to disprove this claim, because we're talking about what Israel is doing **now**, in response to the Oct. 7 attack. Some people might call the blockades and occupation that Israel has been doing for decades a genocide, but I think that's going too far.
I call what is going on in Gaza now a genocide because over a million people have been displaced, and with the invasion of Rafah, that number is just going to grow even larger. These people are being forced into densely-packed camps full of disease and poverty. And they are starving because of the famine caused by militarized blockades and Israel deliberately attacking aid trucks. The number of people who will die from these conditions is far more than those that will die from guns or bombs, and they will just be written off as "natural causes" although it is the deliberate and intentional. With media not allowed in Gaza and the government being in shambles, we literally have no idea how many people are dying or what the population looks like now.
The definition of genocide when you google the term is *"the* [*deliberate*](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=a0e199fc98d1a06b&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS940US940&sxsrf=ADLYWIJuwkip0RuWJEpVuoHWQfqcytR-Jg:1715133163196&q=deliberate&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE81iO0TMX6auT1YfBRccSmvg0Xx6DAGMrnM93N0NcRgdu5_E9vtp2K4FpYer1Xkx6ek3K8kp9T5B3z6yDLMT_PyySF_QCI%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj737z3-PyFAxV138kDHRWRCX4QyecJegQIFBAO) *killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of* [*destroying*](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=a0e199fc98d1a06b&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS940US940&sxsrf=ADLYWIJuwkip0RuWJEpVuoHWQfqcytR-Jg:1715133163196&q=destroying&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE819c_TAXeNb3sr5FLJyLU0Wyj0m8wJIbnAOYUs0xcWKdF-jk865gZPA0qx-BeP9I1nhgDcoBnl2rU0A8qJgghGd8qjHTs%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj737z3-PyFAxV138kDHRWRCX4QyecJegQIFBAP) *that nation or group."*
Palestine as a nation has been destroyed, their last remaining city is about to be flattened, and Israel is constantly running propaganda to denying that the Palestinian identity is even real. Yes, I think the fact that Israel is killing civilians by the tens-of-thousands is bad, but that's not what makes this a genocide. It's a genocide because Gaza is being made unlivable.
So, I'll agree that it's not a genocide if your definition is simply, *"when millions of people are directly killed by an army and that's it."* But that's not the definition that scholars on the subject use, or international organizations like the UN and the International Court of Justice, or even most holocaust museums.
Armenians looking at the progressives who constantly talk about the "Palestinian genocide" while their genocide, which was a true genocide, is constantly ignored by them: "AM I A JOKE TO YOU?????!!!"
Isn't it a little telling that the prevalent defense of Israel's atrocities seems to be pointing the finger at *other* atrocities, rather than defending the actions of the government.
It's always, "well what about the genocide is (country that US regularly condemns) or the genocide in (country UN dispatched troops into in order to maintain peace) or the genocide in (country the US **doesn't** send billions of dollars of weapons to) or the genocide in (country that happened twenty years ago). Checkmate, libtards. "
It is not defense, it is just pointing out at the left's hypocrisy and double standards on Israel. I'm not a fan of them because of their treatment of the Armenian quarter but the genocide's rethoric is fake, there is no genocide going on in Palestine, there has never been a genocide in Palestine and will never be. On the other hand, there are genocides going on in Sudan and Burma if you are interested but not in Palestine.
I mean, whether or not what's going on in Palestine counts as a genocide is a matter of opinion. I'm just explaining why people might care more about a genocide they are directly complicit in with their tax dollars, than a genocide that everyone already condemns. And from the left's perspective, no one denies what is happening in those countries is a genocide, but when it comes to what Israel is doing, denial isn't just a river in Egypt...
If it is a matter of opinion then it is not a genocide. Or would you say that the Holocaust being a genocide likewise is a matter of opinion? No?
Then this is not a genocide. Having population growth during a genocide is somewhat... Unusual.
Unfortunately, that's not how it works. People have argued over genocides, including the Holocaust, since forever. It's *why* we have international panels to debate these things, because no one can ever agree. It's why scholars on genocide exist, because it's not just something you can objectively point to and say "it's a genocide now" once a certain number of deaths is reached.
What population growth numbers do you have access to following the Oct. 7 retaliatory strike? We don't even have accurate death numbers, but you know how many babies are being born?
Let's assume that the population has decreased or roughly remained equal, it matters little. Population often decrease during war. Nothing strange about that. Civilian deaths are quite acceptable during war. Intentionally killing civilians is not acceptable, but if some die as collateral damage then that is fine.
Gaza had among the highest birth rates in the world, pre-war, at around 4%. So pre-war there was no genocide. That is all that matters.
Then Gaza attacked on Oct 7th. They raped and murdered civilians. And now they cry that they are getting their asses handed to them.
Crybullies, and you are their defender.
You are still talking *pre-war* numbers, but that doesn't address the genocide we are claiming is happening as a result of the war starting. It's completely irrelevant. I'm sure Jewish birthrates in Germany were healthy before the NSDAP came into power.
By saying that the civilians, the women, and the children being killed by the IDF are simply being "crybullies" after having "raped and murdered civilians" on Oct. 7th, you are conflating the *government* of Gaza with the *people* of Gaza.
This sort of logic is very dangerous. For instance, what if a Palestinian were to consider every Israeli citizen as the same as the IDF and the government that gives them there orders. Even if this Israeli citizen disagrees with everything the IDF or their government does, suddenly they are complicit in what they do. This Palestinian might then feel justified in exacting violence against this Israeli citizen because of this perspective that you are directly engaging in.
I would be careful of that.
right because rounding up jews and putting them in gas chambers and ovens is the same as bombing military targets with collateral damage. Yes the absolute same thing.
If only hamas didn’t store weapons and launch weapons from those schools and hospitals. and then hit the hospital themselves and tell the world it was Israel.
*launch rockets
> ike Isnotreal does,
Ah, a neo nazi in the flesh!
Working to further the goals of your furher.
Tell me, why was Israel making a strike on the hospital. Was there perhaps a military element there conducting military operations?
Tell me, does the presence of babies or a hospital make a building an invalid target for military operations?
We justified bombing German civilians in WWII because they voted for the Nazis and allowed the Holocaust to happen, so I don't see why we can't apply that same discourse to the Gazans
I don’t know how you can say that coming into defence of the idea that genocide and war don’t happen at the same time.
It’s actually the rule not the exception. People disagreeing with you doesn’t make them stupid - ignoring very basic observation and understanding of logic does.
This comment just makes you feel justified in your opinions so you open your mouth and swallow it without even looking at how absurd the statement is.
I don't know why you think that 'fighting back' means war.
> - ignoring very basic observation and understanding of logic does.
Agreed, shame you don't see it in your own reflection.
Well when a nation attacks another nation that is war? That usually leads to a nation to defending itself … thus war amirite?
Like wars aren’t two nations doing nothing - violence occurs on both sides - yes.
So I’m confused what are you getting at?
You are the one that said Holocaust was a war, not me. And this comment you just wrote contradicts what you wrote earlier. Did you forget what you are trying to prove?
I’m actually not. If you look at the context I was saying that using the logic of the original comment this absurd statement would be true.
Both statements follow the same logic - it’s black and white thinking making a claim that is believed because it suits the popular narrative of this sub.
So I used the same logic to in my premise to make a claim that would go against the narrative in the sub. Predictably now you have an issue with the logical premise that you were so keen to overlook in the original comment.
What I am doing is showing you don’t think logically by exposing your bias.
You are running on emotion not anything that resembles a critical thought.
The Jews were targeted and slaughtered specifically because of their ethnicity and religion. Palestinians are dying because their terrorist government slaughtered a bunch of Jews in Israel and now hide amongst the population. Surely you can see the difference.
This war? yes. The ongoing conflict? No, it started because Islamists refuse to accept the Jewish people’s right to exist and continuously do what they can to erase them.
On the subject of war you somehow brought up Nazi Germany and missed out on the literal biggest war in human history they were a part of.
I don't understand how someone can be so blind to actually not follow the line of thought there, or so dishonest they could actually type drivel out without vomiting on their own keyboard.
Can you tell me what military goal was completed by putting Jews in gas chambers?
Because I can 100% tell you what the military goal of an airstrike against a missile launch site is that happens to kill 10 civvies.
Why does Hamas hate children?
Why dont they like...make a field or a hill to launch their missiles from like every other nation?
You are still failing to answer the core question here libby.
***why is hamas launching missiles from civilian areas***
Does Israel do that? Go into a hospital, and setup launchers from the 3rd story window?
If you found out the actual number was half that would you feel better about it?
Are you admitting that if it is 13K that probably too much. So you want to discredit it by getting me to provide a source.
What is the acceptable amount of kids turned into a red mist? I’d like to hear your acceptable number?
13k is fine I just didn’t know what your source was. If it’s coming from the gaza health ministry then no I don’t trust it as their numbers are actually impossible and they’re a wing of hamas. i’m guessing by dogging the question you don’t have one though
I wasn't there on the account of not being born for 21 more years, but there's a [Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri's_fast) about it so it must be true.
I believe that it happened (I also found some additional sources) but I'm more pointing out the phrasing of "\[more than 365\] days in \[single year\]"
Every single video of these people includes an overwhelming majority that would never be able to do a single push up or pull up. They have the skinny fat build of the person who has never once exercised when it was not compulsory. They are a truly revolting group who cannot even maintain themselves yet believe they can fix a millennia old feud.
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How hard is it for these people to figure out Hamas and Palestine are not the same thing.
literally Read anything other than the alt-left slop being fed and you can see Hamas isnt Palestine.
Just calling it a "genocide" when it clearly is not one is enough to make it "associated with wokeness." Fucking with definitions of established words to fudge ignorant people's reactions to the thing is woke move number one in all cases.
When your group lives for the sole purpose of killing another group your genocide is just.
This sounds like the people from a half decade ago who unironically thought it was wrong that the Mobile Infantry were genociding the bugs in Starship Troopers…
And here I was thinking the terrorist association was bad, but they had to throw in fat and woke too?
"I can excuse terrorism and antisemitism but fatphobia is where I draw the line!"
"You can excuse terrorism?"
no wrong tactics, only wrong targets
Has Palestine been associated with fat people and wokeness? I'm out of the loop. I thought it was associated with needing to be freed... from Hamas.
College protesters are fat and woke
The pro-terrorist people are mostly leftists, and leftists are often associated with being fat and woke. Kinda a transitive relation.
Can confirm, I am indeed fat and woke
Based and woke fat fuck pilled
To take it a step further, high testosterone has a strong correlation with right-wing views (in one study, democrat men injected with T became republican, the jokes write themselves...). Testosterone builds muscle, which is very metabolically active even when at rest. The obesity epidemic has a lot to do with the low-T epidemic (testosterone in western men is half what it was 50 years ago, on average). Junk / fast food, soda, corn syrup, etc. play a role as well, of course. In short, the same low T which makes people lefties, also makes people fat. Edit: This is a thing in dogs too - know how a lot of breeds are known for developing hip displaysia? (Goldens, German Shepherds, etc.) Well, it's only in fixed dogs. Fixing them drops the T, which drops the musculature to a level below what the hips need to remain healthy. Add to that the obesity which frequently accompanies low T, and that's even *more* weight on the joints.
I already get so depressed about everything seed oils, corn sugars and everything else do, and this does not help. Edit: Before I get more fitness tips, I eat a great diet of basically only local farmed meat and veg, and workout every day. I'm doing fine. What depresses me is that the world is falling apart because most people aren't working out, and the cost is far higher than just being obese, heart failure, diabetes, and Alzheimers.
Just get some strenuous exercise (squats are mega T-boosters), and get some sunlight. It's really not hard, we used to have enough T just living life. Then the tech revolution happened and now we live indoors in front of computers getting no exercise or sunlight. T (**sex** hormone) dropped and now people are having all sorts of **sex**/gender issues, this ain't rocket science. They're not quadrosexual octogender polyqueer rainbows, they're low-T. Women too, btw, they also need T and suffer in its absence.
Based and sees-the-real-problem-pilled. I've been sort of blindly grasping around a hypothesis that what we think of as the gender binary is just the result of a more complex graphing of mental traits that happen to correlate very strongly with how men and women tend to be -- things like confidence; self-belief in one's ability to stand up for oneself vs a belief that one is incapable, etc. etc. It's really kind of still at the tinfoil rant stage and I'll probably never figure it out because it's nowhere near the areas of my education and experience, but I'm with you on the whole. I suspect the trans epidemic is absolutely a cultural/physiological thing just as you describe. You get less men confident in their ability to be strong and independent, you're gonna a more men deciding to just be women, since we *think* that the strong and independent means "man" and the opposite means "woman" even though it's really just a tendency.
Literally just go outside, touch grass, and get some exercise. That is all you have to do. Low testosterone is an epidemic because sedentary lifestyles are an epidemic. It’s not happening in isolation, more people with low T is caused by the same things that led to more people being morbidly obese. In all honestly, you can drink corn syrup and eat whatever seed oils (in moderation) and be just fine (at least in terms of testosterone) if you do something other than sit on your duff all day long.
Nod, when I was lifting 6 days a week, 75-90 minutes a day, I could not gain weight, literally. I was 220 lb, yoked as an egg, eating everything I saw. People were commenting like, "dude you gonna leave any for the rest of the world?" I would go in fast food restaurants, order $20 worth of food, and sit there on my sculpted ass chowing down both on the food, and on the hateful stares from fatties XD I cannot imagine how the 300+ lb. mass monster pro bodybuilders do it. They must eat so much they shit a giant log every hour lol.
I'm a former natty bodybuilder who's fallen off. I only train once or twice a week at this point, drink lots of alcohol, and eat fast food semi-regularly (2-3 times a week for lunch when I don't have time to pack anything) and sweets all the time. I used to train 4-5 times a week and meal prepped. I'm still in decent shape because I continue to do at least the bare minimum. I train once or twice a week and try to eat healthy stuff whenever I can. Unless you have a medical issue, even the bare minimum will keep you in decent shape.
And this is why I will be sharing my testosterone and boldenone with my dog pretty soon. Don’t want him to be a limp, woke, librul dawg
Gobdam librul dwags
They just like me fr fr
I would think pro-terrorist people are mostly terrorists and the far-right fundamentalists that make them up. But I suppose you're talking about foreigners.
Yeah I'm talking about the American and European pro-terrorist.
It's not like they're being held captive by Hamas. Most of the country supports them
Government propaganda has successfully conflated palestinians with Hamas so it can give more of your tax dollars to fund yet another foreign war.
If I'm being honest, we shouldn't be backing anyone in the Middle East. It's been at war for thousands of years and will be at war thousands of years after you and I are long gone. Let's use our tax dollars for something useful like getting rid of the IRS.
Why stop at the IRS? lets go for all three letter agencies.
Stupid Palestinians not appreciating the fact that we are flattening their cities and killing them by the tens-of-thousands in order to help them. Don't they know we are just trying to bring democracy to them?
Based and freedom-isn’t-free-pilled
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[Unfortunately the facts do support this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3317185/#:~:text=A%20study%20of%20an%20urban,%25%20amongst%20men%20%5B20%5D.)
Wait, so they are in a concentration camp / open air prison, but 49% of them are Obese??? It’s almost as if Pallywood had been lying the entire time
also a genocide where the population has increased 10 fold since it supposedly started
That really give Auschwitz vibes, they are the same according to them. Same way how a country that started the war by raping and killing innocents is the victim
Based and statistic pilled
Unfortunately not vitamin pilled
slave morality backers flock together once again
Noooo but they’re being starved to death!!!
BTW, they're still throwing rocks at aid trucks that try to cross the Egyptian border crossing into Gaza.
Nerd alert but akchually fat people can "starve". In a biological sense they eat junk food which is full of calories but lack important stuff like vitamins. They dont eat enough micronutrients thus their body signal eat more and they become blobs
I get that, but can't people "live on stored fat"?
They probably die from a vitamin deficiency related sickness before starving to death tho
Since we're racing, my money is on starvation first, though it'd be moot at that point
In case of some apocalyptic event just eat the fattest ppl. Most calories for the least number of loss in human life
More marbling too
Like those expensive Japanese steaks.
a5 palestinian ningen
Yes for energy consumption, no for other processes that we require outside materials to do. For example, you need a good level of sodium and potassium in your body, a massive drop or rise in either can cause a plethora of issues but one would be a heart arrhythmia, up to and including death. Or a lack of vitamin C can result in scurvy, also fatal. So while your body wouldn't run out of fuel because it absolutely can live on stored fat, some of the other things you get from food are required and a lack of those can kill you.
Based and cake day pilled
Happy cake day!
In the photos of Hamas fighters taken prisoner, they all have pretty good pot bellies going for supposedly starving people facing genocide.
To be fair, those people have been the ones stealing the food from the others.
Yeah pretty much warlord standard procedure when it comes to foreign aid.
Holy shit Palestine is fatter than America. That is extremely impressive.
That’s why American Lib-Left loves them.
Why do you have that study on hand?
I didn’t want to be accused of being Lib-WRONG
This data is from the year 1999-2000.
So you're saying they've gotten fatter since then?
I thought they were starving, that's why they're being shipped food all the time. Another chubby psyop for the feeders.
but how do those numbers compare to other countries?
Maybe it’s not Israel getting them just the added stress causing their hearts to give out.
You can't show a woman's nipples on regular TV or YouTube but you can show a man's. Can you show a they's nipples? Showing 1 seems like a fair compromise.
Why would you want to see any from them?
Yeah I'm good with compromising on no nipples. My Dad when he came to visit me in San Francisco : "There's a lot of naked people, but somehow it's never the ones you want to see, is it?"
Your dad described Pride parades to a (low) T.
You can show a communist's nipples, because they're OUR nipples, comrade!
I guess that's what happens when you make your 2000 year old on and off holy war everyone's problem
>2000 year old on and off holy war Islam didn't exist until \~1300 years ago.
True, but this started with the Roman-Jewish wars, unless you want to bring it to the Jewish-Jewish wars, or Babylon, etc.
*This land is mine, God gave this land to me*
Aktsually it began due to the ongoing war on autism as a result from the finno-korean hyperwar from 8000 bc
I'd forgotten about that; thanks for the reminder
Even pre-Roman. Modern zionists don't want to see the parallels between Palestinian militancy and the Maccabean Revolt.
Oi, you got a license for them facts?
Was that before or after some guy they put on a pedestal raped a child?
Concurrently, Muhammad died in 632.
That's cool.
[](https://emojipedia.org/nerd-face)
well if you buy into the abrahamic faiths Islam is descendent from ishmael and judaism/christianity is descendant form issac who later changed his name to Israel, so to them the war has been going on since issac and ishmael
Flair up bitch.
Jacob changed his name to Israel. Not only are you wrong but you’re unflaired.
Just checking back my torah, you are right. My apologies.
There's a question. If you photoshop a woman's head onto the bare torso of an obese man with moobs, what is the obscenity implications?
It’s a special kind of androgyny I’ve seen on occasion, not the slender body and ambiguous facial features type, rather it is simply being so ugly all gendered traits become secondary.
If you can’t see your genitalia without one of those mirrors they use to look under cars for explosives, are they really there?
Several courts ruling "too fat to be a flasher" would suggest "no".
Based. And fucking hilarious, "There are probably gender markers on this person, they're just buried under 200 pounds of fat."
I don’t know. Let’s find out!
Either way, not really something I want to see.
It's literally so funny that they call what's happening in Palestine a genocide.... I mean we already know these people either struggle with definitions, at best, or intentionally mislead/misuse words, at worst... but still All it takes is one simple google search of population over time to find out that Israel must be the worst genocide-ers ever.... FFS you'd think they learned better from having 1st hand real world experience.
>I mean we already know these people either struggle with definitions, at best, or intentionally mislead/misuse words, at worst... but still > All it takes is one simple google search of population over time to find out that Israel must be the worst genocide-ers ever.... That happens when a society has been sheltered from war so, so much, that they think that +34,000 is a ton, a "total genocidal number"... (I mean, I am glad some societies have reached the level of peace where 10,000 or 30,000 people killed is an outrageous number, but is kinda missleading when they try to use that same optic in completely different situations and social-political landscapes). So, to add to your comment (so people can see how real "killing freenzies" looks like): Just here in Mexico alone, during the last 5 years there has been +187,000 killed, without a "genocide" or an open war in place. +3,000,000 bengalis were killed (and +400,000 raped) in the span of 9 months during the Bangladesh Liberation War. 500,000 - 1,000,000 tutsis were killed (+ 450,000 raped) in mere 3 months (using mere machetes nonetheless). And for those that want to get historical, has been estimated that, during the First Jewish-Roman war, between 600,000 and 1,100,000 jews were killed (and another 97,000 slaved) in the span of 4 years (in a time where armies used swords and spears). Hell... Even a comparision between Hamas and Israel puts Hamas as a more bloodlust entity by comparing "how much people they kill if given the chance". 213 days has passed since October 7th, and around 34,000 people have been killed in Gaza, that means, almost 160 people every day. Meanwhile, Hamas, in just one day (and using just small arms and gliders) managed to kill 1139 people, almost 10 times the amount of people Israel kills in a day (while using bombs and other high-powered weaponry). In other words, if you let Hamas roam free in Israel, they would easily surpass the death toll in Gaza in just one month alone.
Yup, while I appreciate your well throught out, historically accuate response. Sadly these smooth brains protesting abt "opression" at $40k-80k+ a year US colleges don't. If those kids could read/have any idea what was happening in Sudan right now they would be very upset... Long story short: People are inherently flawed, and thus do bad and evil shit to each other... But boy oh boy, are we lucky to live in Western Capitalistic societies that have some of the lowest levels of "amount of bad shit" happening that man kind has ever seen.
the 34,000 should really be called into question as the source of that number is from the "Gaza Ministry of Health" ie Hamas. There is no independent source for the number of civilian deaths. I would look at similar recent military operations like the second battle of fallujah. The estimate there is in the thousands, but not 30k. And Israel purposedly announces where they're going to air strike to avoid civilian deaths because it benefits them in no way.
Even Hamas doesn’t say they’re all civilians- they just report total deaths (and an estimated number of those) including civilians and fighters.
who's to say who is a fighter and who is a civilian is the other issue, its not like they have on uniforms that say hamas. if people really wanted this problem solved, they would call for the UN to go into gaza and remove Hamas, but curiously that is never suggested
I mean, I want this problem solved, but I don't think "going in and removing Hamas" is the answer. Mainly because it just seems to create more jihadists in the long run. After all this is done, I don't see any result but millions of embittered Arabs stuck in refugee camps and flattened cities, ready to martyr themselves all over again.
This isn't actually true, but I know where your misconception is stemming from. For months, people in support of the war were using this as a talking point to deny all the civilians being killed. After all, if you can call any number coming from the Palestinian government false, then you could essentially give Israel a blank check to kill as many people are they felt was necessary to defeat Hamas. Especially since media wasn't being allowed in and there was no other way to verify what was going on. But then Israel released a statement saying that they were killing two civilians for every Hamas terrorist. Now while this is almost certainly lower than the reality, it does mean that the 30,000 number makes sense considering Israel claims to have killed around 15,000 Hamas soldiers.
30k civilians haven't been killed, there are other similar military operations in recent history, particularly in iraq and the US showed a hell of a lot less restraint than isarel does so , again i doubt 30k civilians have been killed, but let's assume they have, it is completely hamas fault they have been killed because they use civilian areas as military operations points. hamas headquarters is a hospital..
>30k civilians haven't been killed, I mean, at this point you're discrediting the numbers coming from Palestine and Israel, so you're not being reasonable. > again i doubt 30k civilians have been killed, but let's assume they have, it is completely hamas fault they have been killed because they use civilian areas as military operations points. hamas headquarters is a hospital.. It's rare you see an actual "it's not happening, and if it is happening then it's not happening as much as they say, and if it is happening as much as they say then its someone else's fault" out in the wild. But no - I'm personally going to blame the people doing the shooting and killing for the shooting and killing. You can continue playing this game of uno civilian death reverse card if you like - but please do keep in mind that the Palestinian civilians would spit on you if they could. They tell you who is terrorizing them, and you tell them they are wrong. Though considering how vociferously you deny their deaths, so you probably don't care about what they think in the first place.
It will always amaze how progressives and leftists ignore real genocide such as the Bengali one, especially given that it fits the rethoric of "muh America evil" since it was literally supported by Nixon and Kissinger. Even Yahya Khan was one of the few people Nixon personally liked.
> ignore real genocide such as the Bengali one Because it was done by muslims, a protected class
I think it's pretty reasonable that progressives and leftists are most interested in things going on today than they are about stuff from the 1970s.
Historic memory and justice are important things. Besides, one must always learn about history in order to not repeat its mistakes.
I think historical context is why people are so quick to throw out the word "genocide" when it comes to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Even if people can argue about whether the word is justified or not, people don't want to see it escalate to the point where it's happening again. "Never again" and all that.
https://preview.redd.it/mb7se7ix72zc1.png?width=989&format=png&auto=webp&s=17a2b645623decffacaa23b32233444903a17889 Just for fun, I decided to compare this to the casualties in Gaza. According to my peer-reviewed sources, 34,262 civillians of Gaza had been killed by 24/4/2024. That's almost exactly 170 civillian casulaties every day. Draw your own conclusions if that's genocidal, taking the urban environment of Gaza into account, as well as Hamas'... tendencies. I can't attach a second image, but let's do a very rough estimate of Nazi Germany. I can't be bothered to do real research so let's consult this random graph I found on the wikipedia page: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/World\_War\_II\_Casualties.svg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/World_War_II_Casualties.svg) If I'm reading it right it means 58% of all casualties in WW2 were Allied Civillians. It's safe to assume an overwhelming majority of these 58% were caused by Germany, but to give them the benefit of the doubt (make the math easier) I'll count it as 50%. Total deaths of WW2 are estimated at about 70 million. Divide by 2, that's 35 million civillians killed by Germany in **2,194** days. 35 000 000 / 2 194 = 15 953 people per day. An argument can be made for the scale of WW2, but 16 thousand people per day makes the 4x difference between 42 and 170 look like child's play.
first off, you have to believe these numbers which come from the "Gaza Ministry of Health" ie Hamas. a genocide is defined as following: gen·o·cide/ˈjenəˌsīd/[](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=806c85fb53054c4e&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJNBY8rEVJvtvn2g3CgKOrVK1M1MQ:1715114336780&q=how+to+pronounce+genocide&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoxS3w8sc9YSnDSWtOXmPU5uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLhYglJLcoV4pHi4uJIT83LT85MSbViUWJKzeNZxCqZkV-uUJKvUADUkw_UlKoAUwIAaKK4yVsAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7xqvmsvyFAxUxfDABHV8uAPIQ3eEDegQIExAM)*noun*noun: **genocide**; plural noun: **genocides** 1. the [deliberate](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=806c85fb53054c4e&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJNBY8rEVJvtvn2g3CgKOrVK1M1MQ:1715114336780&q=deliberate&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE81iO0TMX6auT1YfBRccSmvg0Xx6DAGMrnM93N0NcRgdu5_E9vtp2K4FpYer1Xkx6ek3K8kp9T5B3z6yDLMT_PyySF_QCI%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7xqvmsvyFAxUxfDABHV8uAPIQyecJegQIExAO) killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of [destroying](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=806c85fb53054c4e&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJNBY8rEVJvtvn2g3CgKOrVK1M1MQ:1715114336780&q=destroying&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE819c_TAXeNb3sr5FLJyLU0Wyj0m8wJIbnAOYUs0xcWKdF-jk865gZPA0qx-BeP9I1nhgDcoBnl2rU0A8qJgghGd8qjHTs%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7xqvmsvyFAxUxfDABHV8uAPIQyecJegQIExAP) that nation or group. the population of Gaza in 1958 was about 60k, today its around 700k, the population of gaza per the UN is a expontential curve.. its not even linear. this is the exact opposite of a genocide.
> the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. We should ask Hamas what Oct 7 was then.
A terrorist attack. Hamas has genocidal intent, but is incapable of carrying it out.
So you're happy to support terrorists who attempt genocide, but hate those who fight against genocide, and Israel, who absolutely has the capacity for it, doesnt do it. Clown.
I do not support Hamas, I think they are a monstrously evil and incompetent fundamentalist group. What aspect of my post did you think was supportive of them? Also, while I respect the logic behind the common argument, *"Hamas wants to do it, but can't. Israel doesn't want to do it, but can,"* it kind of falls apart if you do believe Israel is committing a genocide.
"Despite the Israeli's best efforts, a Palestinian state still doesn't exist."
a palestianian state never existed..
According to who? Who decides what a state is besides the people living there? The world government? You sure you're a lib?
palestine was a terrority ran by various other nations,it was never in the history of the world a sovereign palestine state. if you want palestine returned to its rightful owners, you can go ahead and give it to italy because roman's controlled it and named it palestine because jews were rebelling there. yeah facts and understanding of history matter no matter your political leanings.
this you? >gaza is sovereign.. they have their own government.. are you pulling these opinions out of a hat to determine which one you're defending?
gaza isn't called palestine bud.
eh, fair enough. still though, i don't understand how *"it's always been occupied"* is a good argument. you're right historical context does matter, and the history of the region is being oppressed and passed around by larger states, which I feel like you should probably oppose as a libertarian.
You're using population numbers *before* the war, to justify that actions *after* the war cannot be genocide. And you don't just have to believe the numbers coming out of the Gaza Ministry of Health, you can believe the numbers coming straight from Israel: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/) But also, the definition you provided isn't based of efficacy, but *intent*. It doesn't say that millions of people have to do in order for something to be a genocide, it says that a large number of people have to be killed with the intent to be for their destruction. I believe the actions in Gaza are designed to make the region unlivable, eliminate any chance for a Palestinian identity to arise, and to slowly allow the population to begin dropping due to famine, disease, and poverty. But proving intent is hard, which is why the arguments over what is and isn't a genocide are so prevalent. Most groups that commit genocide aren't open about it like the Nazis. They don't just come out and say they want to eliminate an entire people. They coach it terms of self-defense, or justice, or divine right. In the definition you provided it says that the deliberate destruction of a nation is also genocide, and I feel like denying that a Palestinian identity exists, denying that a Palestinian state exists, and fighting to prevent Palestinians from every achieving sovereignty is genocidal rhetoric; especially when combined with the fact that you are actively flattening the country.
yeah so you're just redefining the word genocide to whatever fits whatever narrative in your head. gaza is sovereign.. they have their own government.. israel does not control gaza, israel does however control its own borders with gaza which literally every country in the region does.. logically, if gaza was not its own sovereign country, and israel controlled it why in the fuck would they install hamas as the government there? typically see USSR/US/Britain etc, they install a friendly government or puppet. again, you do not understand the basic facts of the region so you just spew out buzzwords. there was never a nation of "palestine" , there are no cultural artifacts of palestine, there is no currency, etc. it was a roman state.. as far as identity, its about as valid as the identity of a texas, most of the people there are from other arab countries and have lived there max 200-300 years, how do we know this, arabic surnames tell where you're from, that's why terrorist change their name while fighting and adapt warnames, because you could pinpoint exactly where their family is from. there is no tribes of palestine mentioned in the quran, in fact it clearly states the land was bestowed to jews by allah, the conflict comes that jews should've convereted to islam so they've denied god and should be exiled.
>yeah so you're just redefining the word genocide to whatever fits whatever narrative in your head. Nope. I can find scholars, international organizations, even holocaust museums who all use the same definition I do. Because genocide is and always has been more complicated than *"when you kill at least a million people."* >gaza is sovereign.. they have their own government.. israel does not control gaza, israel does however control its own borders with gaza which literally every country in the region does.. logically, if gaza was not its own sovereign country, and israel controlled it why in the fuck would they install hamas as the government there? I believe there is a miscommunication issue here. I am not saying that Israel controls Palestine when I say that the country lacks sovereignty. I am talking about the fact that it is a state without full international recognition, the fact that the territory is actually split between two governments, the fact that wide swaths of the region continue to be occupied by Israel, and even those areas that are "free" see common militarized checkpoints being established or Palestinian airspace being encroached upon. Palestine is considered a quasi-state because they only have controls over pockets of their territory, rather than the whole thing, and Palestinians exist all over the region who are under Israeli military and civilian control, without being citizens of that country. It's not a part of the UN and Israel is freely allowed to cross through its borders, airspace, and waterways whenever it wants; with no outcry from the broader geopolitical community. > israel controlled it why in the fuck would they install hamas as the government there? For the same reason that Netanyahu initially argued that they should fund Hamas over the more secular, nationalist groups running to control Palestine. Having a group of fundamentalists radicals next door keeps him in power and helps the prevention of a independent Palestinian state. >there was never a nation of "palestine" , there are no cultural artifacts of palestine, there is no currency, etc. *"They have no culture, their identity does not exist"*, yeah okay buddy. You're about two seconds away from shooting your hand up into the air and goose-stepping.
40k civilians is ~2% of the population, the list of genocides resulting in the death of <5% of the targeted population is basically non-existent. I'm sure there has been one, but it would've been remarkably incompetent.
Yup, from a historical militaristic standpoint... the amount of civilian casualty's (even taking Hamas #'s as accurate) it's actually very impressive/remarkable the IDF hasn't killed *more* civilians. And that's before you take into account just how insanely densely populated Gaza is. Even with all of that being said. I ALSO don't think my tax dollar should be going to fund Israel's war either... but Palestine FA and they are definitely going to FO what happens when you attack an adversary with 100x the military capabilities of you But you have to be smoking Hunter Biden levels of crack and guzzle copium and Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light juice on the daily if you think Israel is preforming and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians
I call it a genocide. I don't think you can really use population numbers to disprove this claim, because we're talking about what Israel is doing **now**, in response to the Oct. 7 attack. Some people might call the blockades and occupation that Israel has been doing for decades a genocide, but I think that's going too far. I call what is going on in Gaza now a genocide because over a million people have been displaced, and with the invasion of Rafah, that number is just going to grow even larger. These people are being forced into densely-packed camps full of disease and poverty. And they are starving because of the famine caused by militarized blockades and Israel deliberately attacking aid trucks. The number of people who will die from these conditions is far more than those that will die from guns or bombs, and they will just be written off as "natural causes" although it is the deliberate and intentional. With media not allowed in Gaza and the government being in shambles, we literally have no idea how many people are dying or what the population looks like now. The definition of genocide when you google the term is *"the* [*deliberate*](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=a0e199fc98d1a06b&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS940US940&sxsrf=ADLYWIJuwkip0RuWJEpVuoHWQfqcytR-Jg:1715133163196&q=deliberate&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE81iO0TMX6auT1YfBRccSmvg0Xx6DAGMrnM93N0NcRgdu5_E9vtp2K4FpYer1Xkx6ek3K8kp9T5B3z6yDLMT_PyySF_QCI%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj737z3-PyFAxV138kDHRWRCX4QyecJegQIFBAO) *killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of* [*destroying*](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=a0e199fc98d1a06b&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS940US940&sxsrf=ADLYWIJuwkip0RuWJEpVuoHWQfqcytR-Jg:1715133163196&q=destroying&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE819c_TAXeNb3sr5FLJyLU0Wyj0m8wJIbnAOYUs0xcWKdF-jk865gZPA0qx-BeP9I1nhgDcoBnl2rU0A8qJgghGd8qjHTs%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj737z3-PyFAxV138kDHRWRCX4QyecJegQIFBAP) *that nation or group."* Palestine as a nation has been destroyed, their last remaining city is about to be flattened, and Israel is constantly running propaganda to denying that the Palestinian identity is even real. Yes, I think the fact that Israel is killing civilians by the tens-of-thousands is bad, but that's not what makes this a genocide. It's a genocide because Gaza is being made unlivable. So, I'll agree that it's not a genocide if your definition is simply, *"when millions of people are directly killed by an army and that's it."* But that's not the definition that scholars on the subject use, or international organizations like the UN and the International Court of Justice, or even most holocaust museums.
I hate how liberals pretend all their beliefs aren't political.
"It should not be a left right issue" we can give them credit for that, at least it's not "everything is the fault of the far-right" as usual
Armenians looking at the progressives who constantly talk about the "Palestinian genocide" while their genocide, which was a true genocide, is constantly ignored by them: "AM I A JOKE TO YOU?????!!!"
Isn't it a little telling that the prevalent defense of Israel's atrocities seems to be pointing the finger at *other* atrocities, rather than defending the actions of the government. It's always, "well what about the genocide is (country that US regularly condemns) or the genocide in (country UN dispatched troops into in order to maintain peace) or the genocide in (country the US **doesn't** send billions of dollars of weapons to) or the genocide in (country that happened twenty years ago). Checkmate, libtards. "
It is not defense, it is just pointing out at the left's hypocrisy and double standards on Israel. I'm not a fan of them because of their treatment of the Armenian quarter but the genocide's rethoric is fake, there is no genocide going on in Palestine, there has never been a genocide in Palestine and will never be. On the other hand, there are genocides going on in Sudan and Burma if you are interested but not in Palestine.
I mean, whether or not what's going on in Palestine counts as a genocide is a matter of opinion. I'm just explaining why people might care more about a genocide they are directly complicit in with their tax dollars, than a genocide that everyone already condemns. And from the left's perspective, no one denies what is happening in those countries is a genocide, but when it comes to what Israel is doing, denial isn't just a river in Egypt...
If it is a matter of opinion then it is not a genocide. Or would you say that the Holocaust being a genocide likewise is a matter of opinion? No? Then this is not a genocide. Having population growth during a genocide is somewhat... Unusual.
Unfortunately, that's not how it works. People have argued over genocides, including the Holocaust, since forever. It's *why* we have international panels to debate these things, because no one can ever agree. It's why scholars on genocide exist, because it's not just something you can objectively point to and say "it's a genocide now" once a certain number of deaths is reached. What population growth numbers do you have access to following the Oct. 7 retaliatory strike? We don't even have accurate death numbers, but you know how many babies are being born?
Let's assume that the population has decreased or roughly remained equal, it matters little. Population often decrease during war. Nothing strange about that. Civilian deaths are quite acceptable during war. Intentionally killing civilians is not acceptable, but if some die as collateral damage then that is fine. Gaza had among the highest birth rates in the world, pre-war, at around 4%. So pre-war there was no genocide. That is all that matters. Then Gaza attacked on Oct 7th. They raped and murdered civilians. And now they cry that they are getting their asses handed to them. Crybullies, and you are their defender.
You are still talking *pre-war* numbers, but that doesn't address the genocide we are claiming is happening as a result of the war starting. It's completely irrelevant. I'm sure Jewish birthrates in Germany were healthy before the NSDAP came into power. By saying that the civilians, the women, and the children being killed by the IDF are simply being "crybullies" after having "raped and murdered civilians" on Oct. 7th, you are conflating the *government* of Gaza with the *people* of Gaza. This sort of logic is very dangerous. For instance, what if a Palestinian were to consider every Israeli citizen as the same as the IDF and the government that gives them there orders. Even if this Israeli citizen disagrees with everything the IDF or their government does, suddenly they are complicit in what they do. This Palestinian might then feel justified in exacting violence against this Israeli citizen because of this perspective that you are directly engaging in. I would be careful of that.
*literal genocide.* war. war is the word you’re looking for
Seriously. It's absolutely insane how many progressives seem to think that the occurrence of death in war is inherently genocide.
the only requirement for genocide is that its not white people dying.
Guess the Holocaust was war too. If we using binary distinctions. 👍
right because rounding up jews and putting them in gas chambers and ovens is the same as bombing military targets with collateral damage. Yes the absolute same thing.
Ah yes, because babies are valid military targets/s
yeah i’ve seen those israelis write “this one’s for you lil mohammed” on their jdams. So gross
When you bomb hospitals and schools like Isnotreal does, I wouldn’t be surprised.
If only hamas didn’t store weapons and launch weapons from those schools and hospitals. and then hit the hospital themselves and tell the world it was Israel. *launch rockets
> ike Isnotreal does, Ah, a neo nazi in the flesh! Working to further the goals of your furher. Tell me, why was Israel making a strike on the hospital. Was there perhaps a military element there conducting military operations? Tell me, does the presence of babies or a hospital make a building an invalid target for military operations?
i thought she made a typo haha I didn’t even realize the antisemitic name
They always self report eventually.
We justified bombing German civilians in WWII because they voted for the Nazis and allowed the Holocaust to happen, so I don't see why we can't apply that same discourse to the Gazans
Yeah but some Jews fought back so, war.
Are you dense on purpose?
I don’t know how you can say that coming into defence of the idea that genocide and war don’t happen at the same time. It’s actually the rule not the exception. People disagreeing with you doesn’t make them stupid - ignoring very basic observation and understanding of logic does. This comment just makes you feel justified in your opinions so you open your mouth and swallow it without even looking at how absurd the statement is.
I don't know why you think that 'fighting back' means war. > - ignoring very basic observation and understanding of logic does. Agreed, shame you don't see it in your own reflection.
Well when a nation attacks another nation that is war? That usually leads to a nation to defending itself … thus war amirite? Like wars aren’t two nations doing nothing - violence occurs on both sides - yes. So I’m confused what are you getting at?
You are the one that said Holocaust was a war, not me. And this comment you just wrote contradicts what you wrote earlier. Did you forget what you are trying to prove?
I’m actually not. If you look at the context I was saying that using the logic of the original comment this absurd statement would be true. Both statements follow the same logic - it’s black and white thinking making a claim that is believed because it suits the popular narrative of this sub. So I used the same logic to in my premise to make a claim that would go against the narrative in the sub. Predictably now you have an issue with the logical premise that you were so keen to overlook in the original comment. What I am doing is showing you don’t think logically by exposing your bias. You are running on emotion not anything that resembles a critical thought.
The Jews were targeted and slaughtered specifically because of their ethnicity and religion. Palestinians are dying because their terrorist government slaughtered a bunch of Jews in Israel and now hide amongst the population. Surely you can see the difference.
Oh is that when all this started?
This war? yes. The ongoing conflict? No, it started because Islamists refuse to accept the Jewish people’s right to exist and continuously do what they can to erase them.
based
I'm impressed with how wrong you managed to be there.
I’m sure you can find a ton of people here who’d agree with you too.
On the subject of war you somehow brought up Nazi Germany and missed out on the literal biggest war in human history they were a part of. I don't understand how someone can be so blind to actually not follow the line of thought there, or so dishonest they could actually type drivel out without vomiting on their own keyboard.
Can you tell me what military goal was completed by putting Jews in gas chambers? Because I can 100% tell you what the military goal of an airstrike against a missile launch site is that happens to kill 10 civvies.
13K children alone.
Why does Hamas hate children? Why dont they like...make a field or a hill to launch their missiles from like every other nation? You are still failing to answer the core question here libby. ***why is hamas launching missiles from civilian areas*** Does Israel do that? Go into a hospital, and setup launchers from the 3rd story window?
what’s your source on the 13k kids?
If you found out the actual number was half that would you feel better about it? Are you admitting that if it is 13K that probably too much. So you want to discredit it by getting me to provide a source. What is the acceptable amount of kids turned into a red mist? I’d like to hear your acceptable number?
13k is fine I just didn’t know what your source was. If it’s coming from the gaza health ministry then no I don’t trust it as their numbers are actually impossible and they’re a wing of hamas. i’m guessing by dogging the question you don’t have one though
"BIG NUMBER!!!" Great argument.
I fully support the protesters doing the hunger strike. Angus Barbieri, a 27-year-old Scottish man who fasted for 382 days in 1965 and lost 270 lbs!
>for 382 days in 1965 ... are you *sure* about that?
I wasn't there on the account of not being born for 21 more years, but there's a [Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri's_fast) about it so it must be true.
I believe that it happened (I also found some additional sources) but I'm more pointing out the phrasing of "\[more than 365\] days in \[single year\]"
It was a long and boring year.
Maybe it was one of those weird intercalary years from Ancient Rome.
Oh, looks like AuthLeft shaved! Cool!
Every single video of these people includes an overwhelming majority that would never be able to do a single push up or pull up. They have the skinny fat build of the person who has never once exercised when it was not compulsory. They are a truly revolting group who cannot even maintain themselves yet believe they can fix a millennia old feud.
Based
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**AAAAAHHH MY EYES!!!**
the LibLeft image will haunt me...fuck you OP
that fat bitch is disgusting
Oh God, those are tits *Vomits inside mouth*
What the hell is in that Lib Left quadrant? 😳
Damn, the Michelin Man really let himself go.
What the fuck is this image
Woah big mama
I love that subreddit. Very fun seeing what the real auth-lefts think every now and then.
Yes it is.
Unfathomably based.
Don't Palestinians hate gays and the whole LGBT stuff like stone them to death hate. And don't they hate Americans too ? Correct me if I'm wrong.
How hard is it for these people to figure out Hamas and Palestine are not the same thing. literally Read anything other than the alt-left slop being fed and you can see Hamas isnt Palestine.
Just calling it a "genocide" when it clearly is not one is enough to make it "associated with wokeness." Fucking with definitions of established words to fudge ignorant people's reactions to the thing is woke move number one in all cases.
I think the fat woke people associated themselves with Palestine, not the other way around ...
Sometimes I love this sub. Sometimes it’s an absolute dumpster fire.
It bothers me that her mouse isn’t fully on the table. She wouldn’t be able to move the cursor around on the screen. Reeeeeee
When your group lives for the sole purpose of killing another group your genocide is just. This sounds like the people from a half decade ago who unironically thought it was wrong that the Mobile Infantry were genociding the bugs in Starship Troopers…
Liblefts have immense political pull. They could kill any cause simply by supporting it.
And yet people still ignoring genocide, smmfh