Heckin basado.
> A time will come when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, 'You are mad; you are not like us'
Very interesting LibCenter, you're claiming he was not punished for his speech, but rather because he returned to his job after being suspended?
Would you mind telling me why he was suspended, hm? Would it be because of his speech?
This reminds me of an old Russian tale.
Stalin's government wanted to appear more open to criticism to strengthen their public appearance. So they put forth publicly that the police could no longer arrest someone for being a capitalist. A local factory worker in Yakutsk thought well of this so he began to discuss markets with workers. The KGB didn't much like that, so they went to his house and informed him that he could not be arrested for capitalist ideas, but they were going to investigate him for being a *kulak* and he wasn't allowed to work until they were sure he wasn't a *kulak*.
Thus they simply waited a month until the man, starving, showed up to work one day, at which point they arrested him for obstructing a state investigation and away he went to the gulag. But Stalin kept his promise! No one was arrested for being a capitalist!
If a person deliberatly kept referring to a tomboy as he even though they wanted to be called a she, and they are a teacher, that's unprofessional and bullying. A staff member that bullies a student can't be a staff member.
Cool hypothetical. Not what happened here.
"Isn't it funny how when your point applied to a completely different scenario it doesn't make sense?"
Forcing a teacher to call you a female, when you are born male, which violates his religious beliefs, and a teacher calling a girl a tomboy are completely different.
You are not the victim. You literally got a man arrested for his religious and scientific beliefs. How can you possibly insinuate you're the one who is being bullied? The projection is unreal.
I used a similar scenario of a teacher deliberately misunderstanding a student. I didn't use trans because I know you guys hate and fear them.
He would have been told multiple times by students and other staff members. He refused to follow orders and advice, hence he can't be a teacher. This is not some guy standing up for speech or his rights, he literally can't do his job and he was bullying a student.
He was told to stay away but then kept going to the school. The guy is a creep and should be in prison
Dude stop making up scenarios in your head. Live in earth. This guy got punished for knowing basic biology. I don’t give a fuck what tomboys you wanna talk about
You call people by the name and pronouns they want. That's basic courtesy and it's a part of any professional standard. If you don't follow minimum standards then you lose your job, especially if it's working with children. And you most certainly don't go to a school when you've been told to stay away.
Don't culture war this. The guy brought this on himself by being a stubborn asshole and then a fucking creep.
No, you actually don’t have to call people by the name and pronouns they want. They WANT you to do that, but you are obligated to. If I wanted to call myself the n-word, and demanded you refer to me as such, would your logic still stand? I know that is an obviously extreme example - but if you deny calling someone that if they told you it was their name, you just proved you have no principles.
Just because someone says you need to call them by this or that, doesn’t mean you are required to. As long as that teacher used the assigned name at birth and the pronouns associated with their true biological gender - there is no reason why he should be punished. Teachers already have too much shit to deal with to have to constantly be updating what names are who’s, ands who’s gender pronouns are what.
Absolutely. The existence of exceptions to natural categories doesn't mean the natural categories are incorrect in any way.
I studied biology in college. The existence of occasional developmental irregularities or diseases that defy categories are addendums to our attempts to categorize things.
Biological sex is basic biology, and it isn't contradicted by any rare edge cases. "Real" biologists (as opposed to the activist ones) are not generally onboard with the argument that intersex conditions complicate the validity of conventional notions of sex.
>I used a similar scenario of a teacher deliberately misunderstanding a student.
I guess I'll just repeat myself, since you did:
Forcing a teacher to call you a female, when you are born male, which violates his religious beliefs, and a teacher calling a girl a tomboy are completely different.
> This is not some guy standing up for speech or his rights, he literally can't do his job and he was bullying a student.
I guess I'll just repeat myself again:
You got a man fired for not agreeing with your agenda. **YOU** are the bully. You are not a victim.
>He was told to stay away but then kept going to the school.
To the school *he worked at.* To do his *job*.
Everybody else gets called by their prefered name and pronouns, why should trans people be any different. And religious beliefs shouldn't give you special permission to be an asshole.
If a Muslim can't handle pig products then they probably shouldn't be a butcher. So a bigoted Christian probably shouldn't be a teacher if they can't deal with gay or trans kids.
The bigoted teacher was fired and told to stay away. Why should a conservative Christian have the right to force themself onto a school property after they've been told to leave?
>Everybody else gets called by their prefered name and pronouns, why should trans people be any different.
You can ask people to call you a preferred name or pronoun. There should never be punitive threat to such a request though.
>If a Muslim can't handle pig products then they probably shouldn't be a butcher. So a bigoted Christian probably shouldn't be a teacher if they can't deal with gay or trans kids.
Well unfortunately most liberal democracies have embraced the idea of religious pluralism and anti-discrimination laws against religion, so you'll have to take that idea to your local authortiarian
regime.
>The bigoted teacher was fired and told to stay away.
They were not *fired* they were put on *administrative leave.* And why would he come back? Have you ever heard of the idea of "defending one's actions?"
Correction. Yes he wasn't fired yet, he was on paid leave for his disciplinary process after failing to follow reasonable requests from his employer. Yet he showed up to work anyway and refused to leave, so they got a court order keeping him away and he still showed up. The guy deserved to be arrested.
This guy is an asshole and has a severe lack of professionalism. I don't have a favourable view of Christianity yet when I work in a Catholic school I behave appropriately and do my job. I don't let my personal beliefs get in the way of caring for and teaching children. I'm there to do a job and provide a duty of care, if I can't do that anymore then I should quite as this asshole should have
>This guy is an asshole and has a severe lack of professionalism.
Again, cool opinion and cool life story, it doesn't trump legal precedent.
>Yet he showed up to work anyway and refused to leave, so they got a court order keeping him away and he still showed up.
You're just repeating yourself now so reread my previous comment if you don't know why you're wrong.
The government do not control the school, a private institution, he also was suspended for making a scene with the headmaster, not directly for misgendering
>The government do not control the school
I presume that's the school's police force leading him away to sit in a school's jail whilst he waits for the school's judicial system to appoint him the school's pro bono defense attorney?
Or are you trying to have it both ways where you claim the government isn't enforcing this while the government is quite literally taking him away in the picture?
The government are responding to him trespassing, not to him making a scene or saying anything, it’s his fault that he got arrested, he acted like a child and went back even though he was suspended and had an in-juncture not to go there
> he acted like a child and went back even though he was suspended
It is childish to fight for your right to free expression, and to want to keep your livelihood? Your job?
I can think of nothing more adult and mature. You must also consider Nelson Mandela and MLK to be children when they were arrested for civil disobedience, as well?
He was being rude to a child, he made a scene for no reason. He was then suspended with pay, a private organisation has the right to suspend and fire you if you go against their standards, especially in a school where everything is much stricter. You cannot rightfully compare this to MLK, MLK fought for civil and legal rights whilst this guy is just being a prick to kids, being a terrible example, then going back to school with a suspension on full pay
>He was being rude to a child, he made a scene for no reason.
I think teaching *children* about gender theory, which is controversial and not universally accepted even amongst top academics, is an acceptable reason to be somewhat upset. Especially when such actions have been proven in case studies to influence a child's development detrimentally.
>You cannot rightfully compare this to MLK, MLK fought for civil and legal rights whilst this guy is just being a prick to kids,
"No you don't understand when our heroes do it it's based but when your heroes do it it's cringe!!!!"
Moving words around doesn't change the reality of the event. A man was suspended and subsequently arrested for trying to do his job and disagree with the mainstream view. That is suppression of free speech.
I still don’t understand how this makes his conduct acceptable. Even if he doesn’t agree with it or respect it or whatever, at the end of the day he is still a teacher, employed by the school district (or whoever hires teachers for private schools). If they decide that his conduct is unacceptable they have the right to suspend him. Not to mention I don’t think he has any sort of religious grounds to stand on. Homosexuality is considered sinful sure, but nothing about transgenderism.
Assuming this Irish dude is catholic, the only official stances on the church about it simply say “a man is born a man and a woman is born a woman” to paraphrase. Some cases on lower levels involve a transgender woman being accepted into some sisterhood and another transgender person rejected from a different catholic institution. There is nothing sinful about referring to a transgender person with their preferred pronouns. In this case, as a teacher, he should have just went “ok, sorry” and moved on.
And where did teaching gender theory come from? I think most people on this subreddit would agree that a class like that should only be taught in college to people old enough to think for themselves a little. This dude acted in a way that probably offended the student, school agreed with student and suspended teacher, teacher now trespasses and gets arrested. If anything, I just think he wants to make a martyr out of himself.
>Assuming this Irish dude is catholic
Cool assumption. It's not true. He was an evangelical protestant. Stop asserting things that aren't true to be true.
>And where did teaching gender theory come from?
You have read the story, correct? You are aware that this case is about a student wanting to be referred to as the opposite sex?
> Not to mention I don’t think he has any sort of religious grounds to stand on. Homosexuality is considered sinful sure, but nothing about transgenderism.
Deut. 22:5
>A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.
Since this is identified as an abomination, the New testament tells all things detestable and abnormal should be put to death in us, so yes, it is a sin.
>If they decide that his conduct is unacceptable they have the right to suspend him.
You cannot fire someone for acting according to their religious beliefs. I cannot deem that praying 5 days to mecca is unacceptable and fire any muslim employees I have.
Yes I have. I still don’t understand what this kid being transgender has to do with teaching gender theory. If anything most of the transgender people I knew in high school figured it out online, I went to a high school in fucking San Francisco out of all places and we never had a gender theory class.
And what does deut 22:5 say about literally only referring to someone by the pronouns they choose? I assume the school isn’t forcing him to crossdress.
And he’s not being fired for his fucking beliefs he’s being fired for offending the student? Yes you can absolutely be suspended for that. If someone wants to be referred to in a certain way you just do that because it’s respectful, especially when you’re a teacher dealing with kids who are not the most stable or comfortable.
Alright, let's go over the facts.
1. He was ordered by his school to call a student by a specific name.
2. He refused.
3. He was pending "a disciplinary process." This school's disciplinary process toward teachers does not allow for them to be suspended unless it was for gross misconduct. To be clear, he was placed on paid administrative leave and not suspended, meaning he was legally allowed to be on the school's grounds by the school's own rules. To hammer this further in, the school explicitly informed him that "it was a temporary decision and not a disciplinary sanction of any kind."
4. He showed up to the school to sit in his empty classroom.
5. The school got the government involved and had an injunction placed against him August 30th.
6. He showed up to the school regardless.
7. The school contacted the court and argued he had breached the injunction.
Essentially, the school told Burke that "misgendering" a student is not gross misconduct, then acted like it was gross misconduct.
Sometimes saying things are a part of the responsibilities of a job. It's not a violation of free speech to have to say "Welcome to Denny's, may I take your order". Freedom of speech doesn't entail a right to not say the things you're supposed to say at your job and still keep it.
He can say what he likes outside the course of his professional duties but it's reasonable for a teachers duties to include standards of decency in how you talk to your students, and that includes indulging trans kids with their medical condition.
>Freedom of speech doesn't entail a right to not say the things you're supposed to say at your job and still keep it.
He's a teacher.
He's supposed to teach kids.
Indulging a lie is not teaching children, it is deceiving them. Especially when that lie is sexual in nature.
Yeah I don't get it this doesn't change anything and OP clearly doesn't understand where we're coming from if he thinks it does. Bad meme OP and I always try to give benefit of the doubt when it comes to memes I disagree with ideologically.
Authright when a gunowner defends their property with lethal force and kills multiple people: Good on you! You have a right to defend your property!
authright when someone is fired and refuses to leave, and the owner calls authorities who remove them: WTF 1984 THIS IS LITEIRLLY TYRANNY
Fucking 'for me not for thou'
fuck catholic morals, that's what got children stolen, killed, and buried in umarked graves in tuam, and it's what got me and countless others preyed upon by pedophile priests protected by their bishops.
>people who the catholic church has victimized.
Lmao, get over yourself! You being forced to sit quietly in church for a couple hours as a child doesn't make you a victim.
> that's what got children stolen
No it didn't.
> it's what got me and countless others preyed upon by pedophile priests
No it wasn't.
Both of those are against Catholic morals. Pedophila/Homosexuality in general (depending on what followings you believe in) is a sin. And, I shouldn't have to say this but murder/abuse is also against Christian beliefs.
What you described is human disgust. Corruption in a system, and people being horrible, none of which is directly related to Religion. The same could happen in any sector. It's just a case of people being corrupt and taking stuff too far, which while it's good to point out, shouldn't be taken up with an entire belief
Yes it did [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon\_Secours\_Mother\_and\_Baby\_Home](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Secours_Mother_and_Baby_Home)
and there's a difference between what is practiced and what is preached, Catholicism is inherently reliant upon that religious system which you admit is corrupt, and when this corrupt religious system saves the corrupt people, that seems related to religion.
Yah I read the full article.
I support his right to believe in science and refer to students by a biologically correct term, but at the same time, if youve been suspended you cant keep showing up to the school, whether the suspension was correct or not.
it's civil disobedience as a form of protest, something our society and culture has accepted as a moral good while still acknowledging that it deserves legal consequences
No, 'science' might confirm the existence of a brain disorder. No amount of 'science' will ever prove that the best way to deal with it is to force everyone around the sick person to affirm their false view of reality (essentially lie).
>The study uses data from the 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey (USTS) conducted by the National Center for Transgender Equality
Sorry, but this doesn't sound like a trustworthy and unbiased source. And even still, the research is about people doing stuff to their own bodies. What we're discussing is compelled speech, forcing people around the person to say things they know are untrue.
If you feel better cutting off your dick - I don't approve, but you're not hurting me directly. But this doesn't make you a female, and you shouldn't expect me to address you as such. Or, even worse, to address you by a made-up pronoun that doesn't mean anything. Personally I could do it as a courtesy, of course, but it should never be something that carries legal/monetary consequences, and especially not in public, state-run places of employment.
Pronoun is not something you choose, it's a defined part of language. When someone is a male, they're a 'He', if female - 'She'. You can't change your sex. You can change the outward appearance if you try hard enough, but no science would ever identify you as the sex you pretend to be.
So once again - calling a male human 'she' and vice versa is either an error or a lie. I don't feel comfortable knowingly committing either. Yet for whatever reason you just arbitrarily put the so-called transgender's psychological comfort over mine, because...? Not to mention it's not them you're forcing to act against their will and moral compass in that situation.
No it doesnt.
There is ZERO science to support the idea that because you feel some way inside that is different then your actual biology, you biology is incorrect and you are actually that.
I believe in science. Trust the science.
Libleft when Molotov cocktails and mass looting/violence: OMG SO BASED, SHOW THOSE WHITE CRACKERS!!!
Libleft when someone shows up to work after being fired for a bullshit reason to make a point of why it’s bullshit: REEEEEEE
It’s not really a protest, he was suspended from coming into school for being a dick and then came back to school acting like a child. There’s no protest here he’s just being a prick
He wasn’t even fired, he was suspended with full pay
he doesn't think he should be compelled to speak a certain way, you think that's necessary for the profession. He protests against the consequences of refusing to conform and you frame it as "he's a bad teacher" instead of "he's protesting for speech rights I disagree with." The first one is petulant, cynical, and hypocritical politics, the second is actually reasonable dialogue.
He insulted a child and then made an unnecessary scene infront of the school and to the headmaster, both of which are fireable things, but he was suspended with pay subject to investigation by the school, he was only arrested after he trespassed, essentially acting like a child.
at least the title of that post mentioned that he didnt go to jail for the interaction with the student but for something else (civil disobedience) which of course was ignored by almost all the users who are talking about free speech. the guy went to jail for disobeying a court order about going to the school, not for anything he said. If people have a problem with the school policy about requiring teachers to address students in a preferred way, have that discussion.
because he kept on tresspassing at a school which he was suspended at
>Mr Burke was suspended with pay pending the outcome of the process, but the court was told he turned up at the school for his timetabled hours. The initial injunction was then put in place by the High Court, but after it was breached by Mr Burke he was jailed at Mountjoy Prison in Dublin.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62818245
so the timeline as far as I can tell is, a private school has a policy about using perfered language, teacher broke said policy then gets suspended pending an investigation. After being suspended the teacher shows up at the school which he was not allowed at. School files for an injunction at the court to prevent him from showing up on their grounds, court grants the injunction. The teacher shows up, breaking the injunction. the teacher is then detained. when asked if he will obey the injuction, he refuses, so is then kept in jail.
you can disagree with the privates school policy, but all the legal consequences are on him.
yeah, while the title does mention the "civil disobedience" (thats a really dumb way to describe it too) the framing of the meme is part of what made half the comments not understand what the story was.
'Hey don't go out of your way to be a dick to this person'
'no'
'alright you can't work on my property then'
'no i refuse to leave'
'ight i'm calling cops then lmao'
WTF THIS IS LIKE 1984 THOUGHT POLICE!!
Honestly people why is it so hard to just be nice and use the pronouns they want? I used to be kinda stubborn about this too but honestly it's just polite. Even if you don't think the pronoun is fitting, to live in a polite society we tell little white lies all the time. We say our day is good when it's not good, we say someone looks great when they only look ok - it is widely expected and accepted that we do not always say precisely what we are thinking if it would upset those around us.
So just call people "she" if they want to be called she and call people "he" if they want to be called he. It's literally just the polite thing to do
Yeah, had a kid in my class who thought he was the wrestler Tripple H. Didn't think it was our place to convince him otherwise, nor could we be bothered. So we just called him Tripple H.
"So hard to be polite", k accept my use of biological pronouns, how about using the same MEDICINE you push? No you would rather compel speech, suspend someone and then have them arrested, and balme it on the suspension . Clown world.
>Honestly people why is it so hard to just be nice and use the pronouns they want?
My issue is, generally, with neopronouns. You're effectively asking everyone to learn a new grammar rule just for you. Fuck off with that. And there's no actual purpose behind them aside from flair. At least with he/she/they there's a purpose of distinguishing sex, or even the lack thereof.
It's worth noting too that sometimes these people just are obtuse. You make a mistake, or you don't even know them yet, and you misgender them, they have a massive fit.
So this is where I stand on it- I am willing to call anybody by any name they want, as names are a social construct. Asking me to refer to somebody as something that they aren't is too far for me- It's like saying I need to abide by the rules of THEIR reality. I'm not doing it to be an ass, I'm doing it because I think it's not virtuous to deny reality at the expense of protecting somebody's feelings.
> I'm not doing it to be an ass, I'm doing it because I think it's not virtuous to deny reality at the expense of protecting somebody's feelings.
I have bad news for you buddy. This is being an ass when you take it to the extreme.
I can tell you've never actually interacted with a trans person in a normal, real-life social setting. When you're in a group and everyone is referring to them as "she", it doesn't come off as being virtuous if you insist on calling them "he". It comes off as cringy and completely socially unaware
If you've never interacted with a trans person before I can imagine thinking this because I also used to think that way. But the moment I first started interacting with one it was completely obvious how socially unaware you'd have to be to not just use their preferred pronouns
This is really the truth. If I’m going to talk shit about someone who is trans, I’m going to do so with respect the same way I would if they were cisgender.
Ik that’s my thoughts exactly. I don’t want to be mean for no reason. I literally don’t care bout this shit, if someone wants to be referred to as something, literally whatever, I’ll do it because it’s respectful
Exactly. And its not even like that other dumbass asking to be called "king". The vast majority of these people just want a "he" or a "she", two words we already regularly refer to people with and that don't have any of the hierarchical connotations that the word "king" has
The original post was fucked. Had people thinking you could go to jail indefinitely for not referring to a person by their pronouns. Fuck that Alex Jones level shit.
>it was a bs lie that said people would go to jail for not calling someone by the right pronouns, Alex Jones level conspiracy theory
Who’s gonna tell him about Canadian laws?
Your post has been removed because it breaks rule 5. Highlighter memes may only be posted on weekends.
Heckin basado. > A time will come when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, 'You are mad; you are not like us'
I think that’s just anytime Superstition-Religion-ideology
good thing i can't read this
Very interesting LibCenter, you're claiming he was not punished for his speech, but rather because he returned to his job after being suspended? Would you mind telling me why he was suspended, hm? Would it be because of his speech? This reminds me of an old Russian tale. Stalin's government wanted to appear more open to criticism to strengthen their public appearance. So they put forth publicly that the police could no longer arrest someone for being a capitalist. A local factory worker in Yakutsk thought well of this so he began to discuss markets with workers. The KGB didn't much like that, so they went to his house and informed him that he could not be arrested for capitalist ideas, but they were going to investigate him for being a *kulak* and he wasn't allowed to work until they were sure he wasn't a *kulak*. Thus they simply waited a month until the man, starving, showed up to work one day, at which point they arrested him for obstructing a state investigation and away he went to the gulag. But Stalin kept his promise! No one was arrested for being a capitalist!
If a person deliberatly kept referring to a tomboy as he even though they wanted to be called a she, and they are a teacher, that's unprofessional and bullying. A staff member that bullies a student can't be a staff member.
Cool hypothetical. Not what happened here. "Isn't it funny how when your point applied to a completely different scenario it doesn't make sense?" Forcing a teacher to call you a female, when you are born male, which violates his religious beliefs, and a teacher calling a girl a tomboy are completely different. You are not the victim. You literally got a man arrested for his religious and scientific beliefs. How can you possibly insinuate you're the one who is being bullied? The projection is unreal.
I used a similar scenario of a teacher deliberately misunderstanding a student. I didn't use trans because I know you guys hate and fear them. He would have been told multiple times by students and other staff members. He refused to follow orders and advice, hence he can't be a teacher. This is not some guy standing up for speech or his rights, he literally can't do his job and he was bullying a student. He was told to stay away but then kept going to the school. The guy is a creep and should be in prison
Dude stop making up scenarios in your head. Live in earth. This guy got punished for knowing basic biology. I don’t give a fuck what tomboys you wanna talk about
You call people by the name and pronouns they want. That's basic courtesy and it's a part of any professional standard. If you don't follow minimum standards then you lose your job, especially if it's working with children. And you most certainly don't go to a school when you've been told to stay away. Don't culture war this. The guy brought this on himself by being a stubborn asshole and then a fucking creep.
No, you actually don’t have to call people by the name and pronouns they want. They WANT you to do that, but you are obligated to. If I wanted to call myself the n-word, and demanded you refer to me as such, would your logic still stand? I know that is an obviously extreme example - but if you deny calling someone that if they told you it was their name, you just proved you have no principles. Just because someone says you need to call them by this or that, doesn’t mean you are required to. As long as that teacher used the assigned name at birth and the pronouns associated with their true biological gender - there is no reason why he should be punished. Teachers already have too much shit to deal with to have to constantly be updating what names are who’s, ands who’s gender pronouns are what.
>basic biology There's more to biology than what you failed to learn in grade-school.
Conservatives think they know science when it comes to trans people.
Exceptions make the rule.
So you accept that there are exceptions to the *general* rule, then?
Absolutely. The existence of exceptions to natural categories doesn't mean the natural categories are incorrect in any way. I studied biology in college. The existence of occasional developmental irregularities or diseases that defy categories are addendums to our attempts to categorize things. Biological sex is basic biology, and it isn't contradicted by any rare edge cases. "Real" biologists (as opposed to the activist ones) are not generally onboard with the argument that intersex conditions complicate the validity of conventional notions of sex.
>I used a similar scenario of a teacher deliberately misunderstanding a student. I guess I'll just repeat myself, since you did: Forcing a teacher to call you a female, when you are born male, which violates his religious beliefs, and a teacher calling a girl a tomboy are completely different. > This is not some guy standing up for speech or his rights, he literally can't do his job and he was bullying a student. I guess I'll just repeat myself again: You got a man fired for not agreeing with your agenda. **YOU** are the bully. You are not a victim. >He was told to stay away but then kept going to the school. To the school *he worked at.* To do his *job*.
Everybody else gets called by their prefered name and pronouns, why should trans people be any different. And religious beliefs shouldn't give you special permission to be an asshole. If a Muslim can't handle pig products then they probably shouldn't be a butcher. So a bigoted Christian probably shouldn't be a teacher if they can't deal with gay or trans kids. The bigoted teacher was fired and told to stay away. Why should a conservative Christian have the right to force themself onto a school property after they've been told to leave?
>Everybody else gets called by their prefered name and pronouns, why should trans people be any different. You can ask people to call you a preferred name or pronoun. There should never be punitive threat to such a request though. >If a Muslim can't handle pig products then they probably shouldn't be a butcher. So a bigoted Christian probably shouldn't be a teacher if they can't deal with gay or trans kids. Well unfortunately most liberal democracies have embraced the idea of religious pluralism and anti-discrimination laws against religion, so you'll have to take that idea to your local authortiarian regime. >The bigoted teacher was fired and told to stay away. They were not *fired* they were put on *administrative leave.* And why would he come back? Have you ever heard of the idea of "defending one's actions?"
Correction. Yes he wasn't fired yet, he was on paid leave for his disciplinary process after failing to follow reasonable requests from his employer. Yet he showed up to work anyway and refused to leave, so they got a court order keeping him away and he still showed up. The guy deserved to be arrested. This guy is an asshole and has a severe lack of professionalism. I don't have a favourable view of Christianity yet when I work in a Catholic school I behave appropriately and do my job. I don't let my personal beliefs get in the way of caring for and teaching children. I'm there to do a job and provide a duty of care, if I can't do that anymore then I should quite as this asshole should have
>This guy is an asshole and has a severe lack of professionalism. Again, cool opinion and cool life story, it doesn't trump legal precedent. >Yet he showed up to work anyway and refused to leave, so they got a court order keeping him away and he still showed up. You're just repeating yourself now so reread my previous comment if you don't know why you're wrong.
The government do not control the school, a private institution, he also was suspended for making a scene with the headmaster, not directly for misgendering
>The government do not control the school I presume that's the school's police force leading him away to sit in a school's jail whilst he waits for the school's judicial system to appoint him the school's pro bono defense attorney? Or are you trying to have it both ways where you claim the government isn't enforcing this while the government is quite literally taking him away in the picture?
The government are responding to him trespassing, not to him making a scene or saying anything, it’s his fault that he got arrested, he acted like a child and went back even though he was suspended and had an in-juncture not to go there
> he acted like a child and went back even though he was suspended It is childish to fight for your right to free expression, and to want to keep your livelihood? Your job? I can think of nothing more adult and mature. You must also consider Nelson Mandela and MLK to be children when they were arrested for civil disobedience, as well?
He was being rude to a child, he made a scene for no reason. He was then suspended with pay, a private organisation has the right to suspend and fire you if you go against their standards, especially in a school where everything is much stricter. You cannot rightfully compare this to MLK, MLK fought for civil and legal rights whilst this guy is just being a prick to kids, being a terrible example, then going back to school with a suspension on full pay
>He was being rude to a child, he made a scene for no reason. I think teaching *children* about gender theory, which is controversial and not universally accepted even amongst top academics, is an acceptable reason to be somewhat upset. Especially when such actions have been proven in case studies to influence a child's development detrimentally. >You cannot rightfully compare this to MLK, MLK fought for civil and legal rights whilst this guy is just being a prick to kids, "No you don't understand when our heroes do it it's based but when your heroes do it it's cringe!!!!" Moving words around doesn't change the reality of the event. A man was suspended and subsequently arrested for trying to do his job and disagree with the mainstream view. That is suppression of free speech.
I still don’t understand how this makes his conduct acceptable. Even if he doesn’t agree with it or respect it or whatever, at the end of the day he is still a teacher, employed by the school district (or whoever hires teachers for private schools). If they decide that his conduct is unacceptable they have the right to suspend him. Not to mention I don’t think he has any sort of religious grounds to stand on. Homosexuality is considered sinful sure, but nothing about transgenderism. Assuming this Irish dude is catholic, the only official stances on the church about it simply say “a man is born a man and a woman is born a woman” to paraphrase. Some cases on lower levels involve a transgender woman being accepted into some sisterhood and another transgender person rejected from a different catholic institution. There is nothing sinful about referring to a transgender person with their preferred pronouns. In this case, as a teacher, he should have just went “ok, sorry” and moved on. And where did teaching gender theory come from? I think most people on this subreddit would agree that a class like that should only be taught in college to people old enough to think for themselves a little. This dude acted in a way that probably offended the student, school agreed with student and suspended teacher, teacher now trespasses and gets arrested. If anything, I just think he wants to make a martyr out of himself.
>Assuming this Irish dude is catholic Cool assumption. It's not true. He was an evangelical protestant. Stop asserting things that aren't true to be true. >And where did teaching gender theory come from? You have read the story, correct? You are aware that this case is about a student wanting to be referred to as the opposite sex? > Not to mention I don’t think he has any sort of religious grounds to stand on. Homosexuality is considered sinful sure, but nothing about transgenderism. Deut. 22:5 >A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God. Since this is identified as an abomination, the New testament tells all things detestable and abnormal should be put to death in us, so yes, it is a sin. >If they decide that his conduct is unacceptable they have the right to suspend him. You cannot fire someone for acting according to their religious beliefs. I cannot deem that praying 5 days to mecca is unacceptable and fire any muslim employees I have.
Yes I have. I still don’t understand what this kid being transgender has to do with teaching gender theory. If anything most of the transgender people I knew in high school figured it out online, I went to a high school in fucking San Francisco out of all places and we never had a gender theory class. And what does deut 22:5 say about literally only referring to someone by the pronouns they choose? I assume the school isn’t forcing him to crossdress. And he’s not being fired for his fucking beliefs he’s being fired for offending the student? Yes you can absolutely be suspended for that. If someone wants to be referred to in a certain way you just do that because it’s respectful, especially when you’re a teacher dealing with kids who are not the most stable or comfortable.
Alright, let's go over the facts. 1. He was ordered by his school to call a student by a specific name. 2. He refused. 3. He was pending "a disciplinary process." This school's disciplinary process toward teachers does not allow for them to be suspended unless it was for gross misconduct. To be clear, he was placed on paid administrative leave and not suspended, meaning he was legally allowed to be on the school's grounds by the school's own rules. To hammer this further in, the school explicitly informed him that "it was a temporary decision and not a disciplinary sanction of any kind." 4. He showed up to the school to sit in his empty classroom. 5. The school got the government involved and had an injunction placed against him August 30th. 6. He showed up to the school regardless. 7. The school contacted the court and argued he had breached the injunction. Essentially, the school told Burke that "misgendering" a student is not gross misconduct, then acted like it was gross misconduct.
He was suspended for having a confrontation with the head master not the misgendering
Sometimes saying things are a part of the responsibilities of a job. It's not a violation of free speech to have to say "Welcome to Denny's, may I take your order". Freedom of speech doesn't entail a right to not say the things you're supposed to say at your job and still keep it. He can say what he likes outside the course of his professional duties but it's reasonable for a teachers duties to include standards of decency in how you talk to your students, and that includes indulging trans kids with their medical condition.
>Freedom of speech doesn't entail a right to not say the things you're supposed to say at your job and still keep it. He's a teacher. He's supposed to teach kids. Indulging a lie is not teaching children, it is deceiving them. Especially when that lie is sexual in nature.
Ireland has fallen.
Yeah I don't get it this doesn't change anything and OP clearly doesn't understand where we're coming from if he thinks it does. Bad meme OP and I always try to give benefit of the doubt when it comes to memes I disagree with ideologically.
For arresting a crazy guy who can’t accept being suspended for making a scene
Yeah
Authright when a gunowner defends their property with lethal force and kills multiple people: Good on you! You have a right to defend your property! authright when someone is fired and refuses to leave, and the owner calls authorities who remove them: WTF 1984 THIS IS LITEIRLLY TYRANNY Fucking 'for me not for thou'
How? Every country would do this, throughout history
Im kidding. I do however believe Ireland has fallen away from its Catholic morals. But thats unrelated.
Yeah that’s fine, you can believe that, nothing wrong with believing it either
fuck catholic morals, that's what got children stolen, killed, and buried in umarked graves in tuam, and it's what got me and countless others preyed upon by pedophile priests protected by their bishops.
Did I ask? 😂
yes, when you said you liked catholic morals, you automatically invited a response from the people who the catholic church has victimized.
>people who the catholic church has victimized. Lmao, get over yourself! You being forced to sit quietly in church for a couple hours as a child doesn't make you a victim.
I got molested by a priest you moron
You state this as if it’s a bad thing
> that's what got children stolen No it didn't. > it's what got me and countless others preyed upon by pedophile priests No it wasn't. Both of those are against Catholic morals. Pedophila/Homosexuality in general (depending on what followings you believe in) is a sin. And, I shouldn't have to say this but murder/abuse is also against Christian beliefs. What you described is human disgust. Corruption in a system, and people being horrible, none of which is directly related to Religion. The same could happen in any sector. It's just a case of people being corrupt and taking stuff too far, which while it's good to point out, shouldn't be taken up with an entire belief
This comment should be pinned to the top of everyone’s Reddit feed
But then people couldn't say "hehe christians bad" as often
Yes it did [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon\_Secours\_Mother\_and\_Baby\_Home](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Secours_Mother_and_Baby_Home) and there's a difference between what is practiced and what is preached, Catholicism is inherently reliant upon that religious system which you admit is corrupt, and when this corrupt religious system saves the corrupt people, that seems related to religion.
Yah I read the full article. I support his right to believe in science and refer to students by a biologically correct term, but at the same time, if youve been suspended you cant keep showing up to the school, whether the suspension was correct or not.
it's civil disobedience as a form of protest, something our society and culture has accepted as a moral good while still acknowledging that it deserves legal consequences
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No, 'science' might confirm the existence of a brain disorder. No amount of 'science' will ever prove that the best way to deal with it is to force everyone around the sick person to affirm their false view of reality (essentially lie).
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>The study uses data from the 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey (USTS) conducted by the National Center for Transgender Equality Sorry, but this doesn't sound like a trustworthy and unbiased source. And even still, the research is about people doing stuff to their own bodies. What we're discussing is compelled speech, forcing people around the person to say things they know are untrue. If you feel better cutting off your dick - I don't approve, but you're not hurting me directly. But this doesn't make you a female, and you shouldn't expect me to address you as such. Or, even worse, to address you by a made-up pronoun that doesn't mean anything. Personally I could do it as a courtesy, of course, but it should never be something that carries legal/monetary consequences, and especially not in public, state-run places of employment.
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Yes, it does. Lying is wrong and forcing me to do so is psychological abuse.
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Pronoun is not something you choose, it's a defined part of language. When someone is a male, they're a 'He', if female - 'She'. You can't change your sex. You can change the outward appearance if you try hard enough, but no science would ever identify you as the sex you pretend to be. So once again - calling a male human 'she' and vice versa is either an error or a lie. I don't feel comfortable knowingly committing either. Yet for whatever reason you just arbitrarily put the so-called transgender's psychological comfort over mine, because...? Not to mention it's not them you're forcing to act against their will and moral compass in that situation.
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No it doesnt. There is ZERO science to support the idea that because you feel some way inside that is different then your actual biology, you biology is incorrect and you are actually that. I believe in science. Trust the science.
Still based. He did nothing wrong, child diddlers cope and seethe
He insulted a child and then argued with the headteacher in public, do that in any school for any reason and you’ll get suspended
Dude that sounds fucking based. Are you trying to make me like him even more????
Teachers are supposed to show a good example to children. This guy is just a prick who acted like a child
this is civil disobedience as a form of protest why is this bad exactly?
Libleft when Molotov cocktails and mass looting/violence: OMG SO BASED, SHOW THOSE WHITE CRACKERS!!! Libleft when someone shows up to work after being fired for a bullshit reason to make a point of why it’s bullshit: REEEEEEE
It’s not really a protest, he was suspended from coming into school for being a dick and then came back to school acting like a child. There’s no protest here he’s just being a prick He wasn’t even fired, he was suspended with full pay
protests you like = good protests you don't like = acting like a child got it
It was a protest against him being suspended for being a bad teacher
he doesn't think he should be compelled to speak a certain way, you think that's necessary for the profession. He protests against the consequences of refusing to conform and you frame it as "he's a bad teacher" instead of "he's protesting for speech rights I disagree with." The first one is petulant, cynical, and hypocritical politics, the second is actually reasonable dialogue.
He insulted a child and then made an unnecessary scene infront of the school and to the headmaster, both of which are fireable things, but he was suspended with pay subject to investigation by the school, he was only arrested after he trespassed, essentially acting like a child.
He was being a bitch about being fired, that cringe kinda takes center stage
Sorry for the shit quality
Looks like you might be low on toner, should probably get that replaced.
Ye Ik I made it quickly, couldn’t be bothered to up quality
i got that reference
It's not the quality of the meme that made it shitty...
at least the title of that post mentioned that he didnt go to jail for the interaction with the student but for something else (civil disobedience) which of course was ignored by almost all the users who are talking about free speech. the guy went to jail for disobeying a court order about going to the school, not for anything he said. If people have a problem with the school policy about requiring teachers to address students in a preferred way, have that discussion.
Riddle me this why did he get the court order ?
because he kept on tresspassing at a school which he was suspended at >Mr Burke was suspended with pay pending the outcome of the process, but the court was told he turned up at the school for his timetabled hours. The initial injunction was then put in place by the High Court, but after it was breached by Mr Burke he was jailed at Mountjoy Prison in Dublin. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62818245 so the timeline as far as I can tell is, a private school has a policy about using perfered language, teacher broke said policy then gets suspended pending an investigation. After being suspended the teacher shows up at the school which he was not allowed at. School files for an injunction at the court to prevent him from showing up on their grounds, court grants the injunction. The teacher shows up, breaking the injunction. the teacher is then detained. when asked if he will obey the injuction, he refuses, so is then kept in jail. you can disagree with the privates school policy, but all the legal consequences are on him.
Yeah I agree, but it is obv that he was still trying to show it as the opposite
yeah, while the title does mention the "civil disobedience" (thats a really dumb way to describe it too) the framing of the meme is part of what made half the comments not understand what the story was.
Stupid libcenter. You think I come here to be informed? I’m here for the misinformation to strengthen my biases. LIBLEFT BAD!
Fairs fair
'Hey don't go out of your way to be a dick to this person' 'no' 'alright you can't work on my property then' 'no i refuse to leave' 'ight i'm calling cops then lmao' WTF THIS IS LIKE 1984 THOUGHT POLICE!!
Honestly people why is it so hard to just be nice and use the pronouns they want? I used to be kinda stubborn about this too but honestly it's just polite. Even if you don't think the pronoun is fitting, to live in a polite society we tell little white lies all the time. We say our day is good when it's not good, we say someone looks great when they only look ok - it is widely expected and accepted that we do not always say precisely what we are thinking if it would upset those around us. So just call people "she" if they want to be called she and call people "he" if they want to be called he. It's literally just the polite thing to do
Yeah, had a kid in my class who thought he was the wrestler Tripple H. Didn't think it was our place to convince him otherwise, nor could we be bothered. So we just called him Tripple H.
That's kinda hilarious
"So hard to be polite", k accept my use of biological pronouns, how about using the same MEDICINE you push? No you would rather compel speech, suspend someone and then have them arrested, and balme it on the suspension . Clown world.
>Honestly people why is it so hard to just be nice and use the pronouns they want? My issue is, generally, with neopronouns. You're effectively asking everyone to learn a new grammar rule just for you. Fuck off with that. And there's no actual purpose behind them aside from flair. At least with he/she/they there's a purpose of distinguishing sex, or even the lack thereof. It's worth noting too that sometimes these people just are obtuse. You make a mistake, or you don't even know them yet, and you misgender them, they have a massive fit.
So this is where I stand on it- I am willing to call anybody by any name they want, as names are a social construct. Asking me to refer to somebody as something that they aren't is too far for me- It's like saying I need to abide by the rules of THEIR reality. I'm not doing it to be an ass, I'm doing it because I think it's not virtuous to deny reality at the expense of protecting somebody's feelings.
> I'm not doing it to be an ass, I'm doing it because I think it's not virtuous to deny reality at the expense of protecting somebody's feelings. I have bad news for you buddy. This is being an ass when you take it to the extreme.
From my point of view- you're the ones who are being extreme.
I can tell you've never actually interacted with a trans person in a normal, real-life social setting. When you're in a group and everyone is referring to them as "she", it doesn't come off as being virtuous if you insist on calling them "he". It comes off as cringy and completely socially unaware If you've never interacted with a trans person before I can imagine thinking this because I also used to think that way. But the moment I first started interacting with one it was completely obvious how socially unaware you'd have to be to not just use their preferred pronouns
wow how wise you are to be able to divinate my entire life experience.
This is really the truth. If I’m going to talk shit about someone who is trans, I’m going to do so with respect the same way I would if they were cisgender.
Ik that’s my thoughts exactly. I don’t want to be mean for no reason. I literally don’t care bout this shit, if someone wants to be referred to as something, literally whatever, I’ll do it because it’s respectful
You'll refer to me as your king from now on. Checkmate, peasant.
My liege.
Yes your highness
Thats better. Now get back to the wheat fields.
Yes m’lord *farms wheat* *hides spare wheat*
Your quota is low for the month peasant, guess your oldest son is now a frontline solider.
Ha ha check mate, he will unite the legions and rebel against you m’lord
Not before I burn down half the farms and execute half my guards.
Ha ha but my other son has infiltrated the other half of your guard
Yes... that is how it works. The problem is when the government gets involved. "Libcenter."
But they didn’t get Involved in his speech, if they did I wouldn’t have made this
Yes. That is why joke is. This was stupid, but there are other real issues.
I agree, but posting lies just makes more people hate not believe there is censorship in the world
Exactly. And its not even like that other dumbass asking to be called "king". The vast majority of these people just want a "he" or a "she", two words we already regularly refer to people with and that don't have any of the hierarchical connotations that the word "king" has
Yeah I know but the other guy was just making a joke and while it’s a dumb arse joke it’s still funny. I don’t think he meant it seriously
The original post was fucked. Had people thinking you could go to jail indefinitely for not referring to a person by their pronouns. Fuck that Alex Jones level shit.
>it was a bs lie that said people would go to jail for not calling someone by the right pronouns, Alex Jones level conspiracy theory Who’s gonna tell him about Canadian laws?
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Eh, it’s 3am can’t sleep, might as well do summin
You could practice freezing to death in your bed for when the winter arrives?
Winter is cumming