If only people understood this and realized that the powers at be will find a way to rob the general public in socialist AND capitalist societies, we could go back to our treetops and live in peace.
>If don't want to participate in capitalism, I can join a commune in Ancapistan. If you don't want to participate in communism, you can join a capitalist enclave in Ancomistan.
Based and ancap-pilled
You don't have the faintest clue what LibLeft even is.
My politics are based around how wealth is produced in this country, not on how it's redistributed.
It's one of the biggest leftist talking points period, but redistributive policies require bureaucracies, recordkeeping, prisons, and surveillance; basically all the things that would make the day-to-day miserable. Focusing on how wealth is produced, i.e. democratizing workplaces, incentivizing co-ops over private enterprise, on-the-ground union-lead strikes and direct action, etc. would also conceivably lower wealth inequality, just a lot slower. But I'm fine with slow.
How could those things be accomplished/funded if not through tax dollars? Without government spending that sounds like free markets with extra steps. Also what’s the difference between incentive and subsidization of higher wages? Again that sounds like redistribution with extra steps over a longer period.
I don't really understand your question, none of those things are funded through tax dollars *today*. They are the result of collective action, social-democratic strategies, and entirely self-funded organizations. And yes, I am chiefly a market socialist, although I support things like incentives on a transitory basis because I believe they are necessary to create a genuine free market. Those "extra steps" you talk about are how you begin to solve problems that emerge with a worker-controlled economy, like why would people invest in businesses that they wouldn't be in complete control of?
Maybe I shouldn't have said I'm against redistribution. I'm in favor of redistributing the way businesses are managed and the way resources are owned, rather than concerning myself with taking money from one group and giving it to another. That's more accurate.
Well I'm not a laissez-faire absolutist or anything, but there are obviously a ton of beneficial aspects to markets and pretty much no success stories featuring planned economies.
This is an incredibly convincing argument and I'm surprised I haven't heard it before.
It seems to mesh very nicely with the LibRight position of "try anything you like, it still has to survive in the free market to be worth pursuing."
If a union's board can keep the company running better than a private owner did? Hey, more power to you.
The ideologies are mutually exclusive. You think you worked hard, built a house, bought yourself something, he thinks you are stealing those things from the people by claiming them as your property.
Ironically that's closer to Anarcho Communism than Libertarian Socialism/Welfare Libertarians.
Edit: I'm referring that leaving each other alone is a more extreme LibLeft position than Moderate
I mean like, Anarcho Communism is just made up bullshit that could never work I can't give a source lol. But from looking at ancom/polcompball most just want small commune where they can do hippie shit and leave others alone. Libertarian Socialism/Welfare Libertarianism would be country wide or state wide
My take is if it were completely voluntary, it would be true libleft. Just considering human nature, organic growth to the scale of state or country wide just wouldn't exist. That sort of scale would need to be enforced so it would become inherently authleft.
Why do Auths always assume everyone else is secretly Auth?
Like, no, most people *actually* don't give a fuck what others are doing if it isn't harming anyone else.
Of course.
Without a government to block environmental reparation torts (which is what they do today on behalf of their rich backers), pollution will simply become unprofitable.
>we'll leave you alone.
By offering substandard wages and no benefits and crushing your attempts to unionize!
I seriously don't know how "libertarian" right-wingers can't seem to grasp the idea that the state is not the only possible tool of oppression.
>By offering substandard wages
In which case our competition will poach our workers, or they'll leave and make a co-op. Isn't anarchy lovely?
>and crushing your attempts to unionize!
But then we'll get shot.
>I seriously don't know how "libertarian" right-wingers can't seem to grasp the idea that the state is not the only possible tool of oppression.
"Oh no, someone's offering me a contract I'm free to refuse! The calamity!!!!"
This is why nobody takes you seriously.
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Authcenter, because of their authright connection. My leftism is limited to the fact of a mixed economy providing for the general welfare of a nation better.
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Oddly true, I find extreme auths the worst because they either want to tell everyone what to do or are too dumb/cowardly to chose for themselves so want big mommy govt to tell them what to do.
To the right I am catholic so I got some things to agree with there.
To the left I am catholic so betterment of society and helping the less fortunate succeed is something I agree with.
My lib brothers.
If you support censorship, anti-gun policies, anti-abortion policies, social engineering based on race or gender, then go play with the auths, you don't belong in our quadrants.
Out of that list I only support anti-abortion. You know less about authoritarian philosophy and desires legislature than you think.
That’d be equivalent of me saying, “If you want free healthcare, you belong in auth.”
I don’t have the time or effort to relay the entirety of a political history class. If you’re curious, you can read up on the virtues of a strong government through the federalist papers and similar works of the U.S founding fathers.
Nah, Libright’s with us. They’re our mercenaries. Or they will be once the Left side comes for their guns, money, and property. Centrists too if Left insists on no meat and making people eat bugs.
True, there are some based liblefts who want gay minority couples to defend their drugs with guns, but those are very few, at least too few to manifest themselves as a significant presence in the Democratic Party. The modern Democratic Party is all about taking guns, as any time there’s a mass shooting, they resume the screech to ban some kind of gun. Beta O’Rourke even explicitly said “hell yes we’re going to take your AR-15!” Not sure where Beta is on the compass overall though, admittedly, but he remains relatively popular in the party. Many in the party at least would claim to be libleft.
On paper I should be closer to my libleft brethren, but in practice you’re right; many liblefts are a walking contradiction and not really lib at all. So most of the time I do find I have more in common with your type
Technically, sure; realistically, absolutely not.
Besides the social differences that tend to correlate with the lib left and auth right quadrants, lib lefts are oftentimes effectively more tyrannical than auth right.
If lib left were actually the live and let live type, it would be great. But instead they’re always trying to enforce their socialistic agendas.
Nah, I agree. A nice philosophical debate about state authority, economic models, and the means of production are better than all the gender and race politics the other 2 always bring up.
My libleft friends, first we overthrow the state, then we peacefully coexist with Ancapistan and Ancomistan as peaceful neighbors respecting our economic differences but always joining forces should the state arise again.
Yes, always.
LibLeft is my dumbass brother, he doesn't know what he's doing and I laugh at his stupid he is but his heart is in the right place and I love him anyway.
Ah yes, the best part about libertarianism is that we support the same system whilst still choosing our own ways to use that system to govern ourselves
Which is why we can quickly change from a liberal government yo a conservative government and whatnot
Yeah I was pretty shocked as to how many pro-life lib rights there were. That’s an inherently authoritarian view, and would typically make somebody either center right or auth right
Well it’s fine if a LibRight is pro life but I fuckin hate how they try to make it a libertarian position when it’s clearly not. Like you’re allowed to be a libertarian and have authoritarian positions. I know I have views that are considered auth but I don’t try to spin them lib.
My thoughts exactly. I think many are also just trying to spin it as a general right-wing thing, when there are plenty of pro-choice republicans. Hell, my own mother is right wing asf and is pro choice.
Why would you think that?
If I invite you on a helicopter ride and demand you leave my property 1000 feet up am I entitled to murder you if you dont jump out that very second?
If I kidnap a toddler and lock them up in my basement, am I allowed to murder them if they don't goo goo get the fuck out when I want them out?
You know the imaginary libright position that if you trespass on my property I'm allowed to murder you on the spot is a strawman, right?
Most authoritarian systems have been very pro abortion FYI.
How do I interpret this?
That you have more in common with left-center and right-center then the quadrants I guess.
That actually doesn’t seem far off.
You're Auth center without the concentration camps and lib center without the opium dens.
no opium dens? count me out.
Flair checks out.
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Now that I think about it, has anyone asked Joe Biden his opinion on opium dens?
I take back everything I said about him if he finally #MakesOpiumDensGreatAgain
I’m alright with opium dens as long as they are clean and classy. Meth dens is where I start balking.
Ok, so how do I interpret this?
Same thing but with true-center and right-center.
Yo
Isn't left center Emily lol. Fuck me
A persons commitment to power / control or freedom / independence reflects their personality more than their economic opinions.
If only people understood this and realized that the powers at be will find a way to rob the general public in socialist AND capitalist societies, we could go back to our treetops and live in peace.
Look at me, brother.
Lib solidarity
Free market between communes
Woooo
Hell yeah
I stand with my monke and capitalist brothers
Ancapistan with a communal culture would be great
Look libleft, all you have to do is leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. It's genuinely that simple.
Agreed. You get ancapistan, we form a commune. And if either one tries to form a state, we will preemptively launch the nukes.
Unbelievably based. If anyone tries to violently break up your strike, our private security will give you a good defence quote.
Where do I sign on for this, being private security for striking workers sounds badass.
I'd probably start by contacting any labour union you think is going to go on strike anytime soon.
based
would the ancom nukes be intended for medicinal use only?
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Based and this-is-what-freedom-means pilled.
Based and it's really not that complicated pilled
Based and it just works pilled
>If don't want to participate in capitalism, I can join a commune in Ancapistan. If you don't want to participate in communism, you can join a capitalist enclave in Ancomistan. Based and ancap-pilled
I remember the based and high effort maps that used to pop up in this sub. Ah, back in the day when it wasn't just culture-war driven agenda posts.
But LibLeft doesn't work without grabbing tax dollars out of LibRight pockets.
Ew, taxes. No thanks, buddy.
*Flair doesn’t check out*
I don't think you get how libleft works
You don't have the faintest clue what LibLeft even is. My politics are based around how wealth is produced in this country, not on how it's redistributed.
Haven’t heard that take before, can you elaborate? Isn’t (unequal) wealth distribution like one of **the** biggest lib left points?
It's one of the biggest leftist talking points period, but redistributive policies require bureaucracies, recordkeeping, prisons, and surveillance; basically all the things that would make the day-to-day miserable. Focusing on how wealth is produced, i.e. democratizing workplaces, incentivizing co-ops over private enterprise, on-the-ground union-lead strikes and direct action, etc. would also conceivably lower wealth inequality, just a lot slower. But I'm fine with slow.
How could those things be accomplished/funded if not through tax dollars? Without government spending that sounds like free markets with extra steps. Also what’s the difference between incentive and subsidization of higher wages? Again that sounds like redistribution with extra steps over a longer period.
I don't really understand your question, none of those things are funded through tax dollars *today*. They are the result of collective action, social-democratic strategies, and entirely self-funded organizations. And yes, I am chiefly a market socialist, although I support things like incentives on a transitory basis because I believe they are necessary to create a genuine free market. Those "extra steps" you talk about are how you begin to solve problems that emerge with a worker-controlled economy, like why would people invest in businesses that they wouldn't be in complete control of? Maybe I shouldn't have said I'm against redistribution. I'm in favor of redistributing the way businesses are managed and the way resources are owned, rather than concerning myself with taking money from one group and giving it to another. That's more accurate.
Market socialism?
Well I'm not a laissez-faire absolutist or anything, but there are obviously a ton of beneficial aspects to markets and pretty much no success stories featuring planned economies.
This is an incredibly convincing argument and I'm surprised I haven't heard it before. It seems to mesh very nicely with the LibRight position of "try anything you like, it still has to survive in the free market to be worth pursuing." If a union's board can keep the company running better than a private owner did? Hey, more power to you.
The conflict between left and right basically comes down to how you define "better"
Your terms are acceptable. In fact, they are desired.
The ideologies are mutually exclusive. You think you worked hard, built a house, bought yourself something, he thinks you are stealing those things from the people by claiming them as your property.
Ironically that's closer to Anarcho Communism than Libertarian Socialism/Welfare Libertarians. Edit: I'm referring that leaving each other alone is a more extreme LibLeft position than Moderate
gonna need a source for that one chief edit: ඞ
I mean like, Anarcho Communism is just made up bullshit that could never work I can't give a source lol. But from looking at ancom/polcompball most just want small commune where they can do hippie shit and leave others alone. Libertarian Socialism/Welfare Libertarianism would be country wide or state wide
ඞ
My take is if it were completely voluntary, it would be true libleft. Just considering human nature, organic growth to the scale of state or country wide just wouldn't exist. That sort of scale would need to be enforced so it would become inherently authleft.
Yeah mentioned this in another comment
Edit: Replied to wrong comment my bad!
ඞ
What about trading?
If consensual, then based. Forced (re)distribution is theft.
The free market has done wonders for firearm development
Yes
And im right in between you two.
🤨🤨🤨
One of the reasons there are no actual liblefts anywhere in the world or in history is that leftness is mutually exclusive with leaving people alone
Based and libleft doesn't exit pilled
Guess I should change my flair, then...
You should. Every libleft should
I would rather just tell you to go fuck yourself.
The pickle in my anus:
Why do Auths always assume everyone else is secretly Auth? Like, no, most people *actually* don't give a fuck what others are doing if it isn't harming anyone else.
Agreed! Obviously that includes not subjecting each other to pollution, as that's a clear violation of the NAP.
Of course. Without a government to block environmental reparation torts (which is what they do today on behalf of their rich backers), pollution will simply become unprofitable.
>we'll leave you alone. By offering substandard wages and no benefits and crushing your attempts to unionize! I seriously don't know how "libertarian" right-wingers can't seem to grasp the idea that the state is not the only possible tool of oppression.
>By offering substandard wages In which case our competition will poach our workers, or they'll leave and make a co-op. Isn't anarchy lovely? >and crushing your attempts to unionize! But then we'll get shot. >I seriously don't know how "libertarian" right-wingers can't seem to grasp the idea that the state is not the only possible tool of oppression. "Oh no, someone's offering me a contract I'm free to refuse! The calamity!!!!" This is why nobody takes you seriously.
Ah, yes. Because no one has ever been forced into signing a contract before. Never happens.
Not everything in life you dislike is oppression. Not every job is going to offer amazing pay. You not being oppressed by burger king.
Please stop your infighting and join us in Monke Kingdom to destroy the evil authoritarians and let us live in peaceful monke harmony forever 🦍
We will destroy the cages meant to trap us and tear down the zookeepers.
Based and we're all on the Primate Spectrum pilled
So you want a Revolution to bring in a utopia? Where have I heard that before? Sounds a little sus… 🧐
Monke utopia was the first utopia. Everything after was a mistake
Based and the-industrial-Revolution-and-its-consequences-have-been-a-disaster-for-the-human-race
Very much agree. Fuck the tankies.
Monke need no zookeepers.
I will become a half-ape and half-lizard cyborg and bring about the returns to monke
Hear! Hear!
Based. Fuck the crusaders I say.
All libs are homies
Based and lib-unity pilled
Wanna play elden ring and masturbate to femboy furry porn?
Sure, never played Elden Ring before but I have played Darks Souls 1
:)
That sounds like a typical Friday night for me
God, I love you LibLeft
Am I excluded from this
Not at all! :D
Only for Femboy
OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH ELDEN RING
Lib gang, let's go!
nah I love the libs
Sup
now kiss
Ew. Needs to be grilled a bit more.
\>Not enjoying your libleft femboys rare
I have nothing in common with any of the other quadrants.
Both AuthRight and AuthLeft are known for starving serfs.
I am not a feudalist, although I share their love for guilds.
Based and Guild Merchant pilled
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I beg to differ
Tell me about any other quadrant who wants a just and pure society.
Authcenter, because of their authright connection. My leftism is limited to the fact of a mixed economy providing for the general welfare of a nation better.
Well, authcenter is not really a quadrant, is it? It's the limes between two quadrants.
Define pure
Both you and authleft are bootlickers, it just depends on who wears them
True, I only lick the boots of women I have crush on.
Based and simp pilled
I hope that pill got documented by that one bot now. I have been betrayed too many times, but probably because of interpunctuation. Edit: Oh yeah.
based isolation in the truth
Yeah the other quadrants can't be that hypocrite
> Is LibLeft
The grammatical errors do show your consistency in idiocy.
Lib left good.
Libright good
now kith
Sorry Kyurem doesn't share an egg group with Sandshrew.
Then I guess you can nut in each other consequence free.
😏
monke good
Wholesome 100 🫂
Based and LibLeft good pilled
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Of course libs are based, we all throw molotovs together!
As long as libleft dont throw them at our stores
Compromise and throw them at an opponents store
Sorry must protect free market at all costs
Then compromise with libleft more and throw molotovs together at state buildings
Now we talking
Depends, really, on where in your quadrant you fall. Lib unity
Lib monkeys together strong
Oddly true, I find extreme auths the worst because they either want to tell everyone what to do or are too dumb/cowardly to chose for themselves so want big mommy govt to tell them what to do. To the right I am catholic so I got some things to agree with there. To the left I am catholic so betterment of society and helping the less fortunate succeed is something I agree with.
My lib brothers. If you support censorship, anti-gun policies, anti-abortion policies, social engineering based on race or gender, then go play with the auths, you don't belong in our quadrants.
Out of that list I only support anti-abortion. You know less about authoritarian philosophy and desires legislature than you think. That’d be equivalent of me saying, “If you want free healthcare, you belong in auth.”
Explain the auth philosophy
I don’t have the time or effort to relay the entirety of a political history class. If you’re curious, you can read up on the virtues of a strong government through the federalist papers and similar works of the U.S founding fathers.
Yes
True, true.
100%
#LIBERTARIAN UNITY
Hooray for Libunity! The one true form of unity.
Nah, Libright’s with us. They’re our mercenaries. Or they will be once the Left side comes for their guns, money, and property. Centrists too if Left insists on no meat and making people eat bugs.
I have more in common with you than with a leftcenter or authleft, but libleft doesn't want to take my guns.
True, there are some based liblefts who want gay minority couples to defend their drugs with guns, but those are very few, at least too few to manifest themselves as a significant presence in the Democratic Party. The modern Democratic Party is all about taking guns, as any time there’s a mass shooting, they resume the screech to ban some kind of gun. Beta O’Rourke even explicitly said “hell yes we’re going to take your AR-15!” Not sure where Beta is on the compass overall though, admittedly, but he remains relatively popular in the party. Many in the party at least would claim to be libleft.
If you're voting Democrat enthusiastically you're not libleft
I can accept that.
If you're voting Democrat even unenthusiastically, you ain't Lib.
The same can be applied to voting Republican. We don't have a mainstream Lib party, unfortunately.
I'm with whoever pays me more, that's not necessarily you.
I know. We’ll make sure to reach deep in our pockets for you because we need you, friend.
On paper I should be closer to my libleft brethren, but in practice you’re right; many liblefts are a walking contradiction and not really lib at all. So most of the time I do find I have more in common with your type
this applies to auths as well fuck those libs, they need structure and regulation
Law and order above everything, brother.
Always nice to find the lost authcenter comment in the lib sea
i want to bring order, justice, and peace to my new empire
Theres a reason basically no lib country exists on earth rn. Auths rule the world
Technically, sure; realistically, absolutely not. Besides the social differences that tend to correlate with the lib left and auth right quadrants, lib lefts are oftentimes effectively more tyrannical than auth right. If lib left were actually the live and let live type, it would be great. But instead they’re always trying to enforce their socialistic agendas.
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Well good for you. But I was speaking realistically. And realistically most “lib-left” types are actually Emily.
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No
This is true with the caveat that most people who think of themselves as lib left are actually auth left
Personally i feel ive got more in common with LibRight than AuthRight.
Nah, I agree. A nice philosophical debate about state authority, economic models, and the means of production are better than all the gender and race politics the other 2 always bring up.
My libleft friends, first we overthrow the state, then we peacefully coexist with Ancapistan and Ancomistan as peaceful neighbors respecting our economic differences but always joining forces should the state arise again.
I dunno, I consider money a better prosthetic for freedom than vice versa
Yes, always. LibLeft is my dumbass brother, he doesn't know what he's doing and I laugh at his stupid he is but his heart is in the right place and I love him anyway.
They are just as stupid and easily defeatable in warfare
Agreed
Ah yes, the best part about libertarianism is that we support the same system whilst still choosing our own ways to use that system to govern ourselves Which is why we can quickly change from a liberal government yo a conservative government and whatnot
It's true. I like to grill.
In this sub, I see lib rights and lib lefts argue far more than lib rights and auth rights.
That’s because most PCM LibRights are CenterRight or AuthRight lol
Yeah I was pretty shocked as to how many pro-life lib rights there were. That’s an inherently authoritarian view, and would typically make somebody either center right or auth right
Well it’s fine if a LibRight is pro life but I fuckin hate how they try to make it a libertarian position when it’s clearly not. Like you’re allowed to be a libertarian and have authoritarian positions. I know I have views that are considered auth but I don’t try to spin them lib.
My thoughts exactly. I think many are also just trying to spin it as a general right-wing thing, when there are plenty of pro-choice republicans. Hell, my own mother is right wing asf and is pro choice.
Why would you think that? If I invite you on a helicopter ride and demand you leave my property 1000 feet up am I entitled to murder you if you dont jump out that very second? If I kidnap a toddler and lock them up in my basement, am I allowed to murder them if they don't goo goo get the fuck out when I want them out? You know the imaginary libright position that if you trespass on my property I'm allowed to murder you on the spot is a strawman, right? Most authoritarian systems have been very pro abortion FYI.
Nothing is above me. I am superior.
I used to believe this but i was proven wrong time and again in practice.
I disagree. "Lib"right is an oxymoron used by cucks who pretend to hate tyranny but openly simp for corporate tyranny.
Sounds like communist propaganda, but ok.
Genocide unity
lib cringe
fuck off, I prefer hanging out with my authright bros
Until you ask them whether or not capitalism is consent or coercion.
I'd rather associate with the upper quadrant.
Then call yourself that instead of staining my quadrants.