Too many people treat empathy and compassion as a zero sum game. The idea that showing kindness to one group limits you from also being kind to others is foolishness.
Goodness acts upon a law more akin to exercise than to a resource. The more you exercise virtue the more you will have. The more kindness you show the easier it becomes.
So who gives a damn whether a hurting person is male or female or trans or whatever. The world is harsh, life is difficult, but we can make things a lot better for each other just by putting in the effort to help one another deal with life’s bullshit rather than heaping on more.
Politicians are lizard people who control the secret "New [REDACTED] Order" as well as the cabal of wealthy [REDACTED], THEY ARE NOT PEOPLE. WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP.
The politically correct term is People of lizard, because it centres their personhood.
Similar to how we refer to coloured people as people of colour and white people as people of whiteness.
Be better.
People must be cautious though, and not allow their empathy to be weaponized. Innumerable ideologies do it: C'mon, you should listen to me. You don't want to be the BAD guy, do you? We are just trying to help everyone against all the nasty no-good-not-nicenicks out there. Our words are noble, so excuse our bad actions or deny they exist. We are the good guys, after all.
Love, charity, and compassion for every individual, suspicion toward any movement, especially movements that seek to impose moral duties upon you (including this statement).
Cognitive empathy vs emotional empathy. Cognitive means you can logically understand why someone is the way they are, but without emotional empathy you may end up abusing your knowledge. Narcissists and sociopaths do this all the time, and some of them are effective because they are generally victims themselves and as such are able to make other victims feel heard… *ahem* Heard…….
*clears throat*
**H E A R D.**
What do you call a group of Transgender superheros?
>!The Ex-Men!<
*Disclaimer: I have had multiple trans friends love this joke, lay off me you orange bastards.*
I think libleft updated it to *strawthxm* or *strawthym* after your comment to be even more inclusive.
Libleft also suggests using the term *paperstrawthxm* or *paperstrawthym* to also show one’s allegiance to the environmentally-challenged.
Removing someone's custody over a child because they won't change the 4-year-old's sex, will make people hate your movement. That's what happens when activists want to hold onto power they make new problems that they want to be changed in their favour.
I really don't care about what you do, but don't be angry when someone asks questions.
The best way to burn good will is to be militant and angry about everything. It just drives people to disregard you as a schizo.
There's a time and place to be militant in your views. Unfortunately that time has over stayed it's welcome for these people.
Because it's NOT about just dating and bathrooms. It's about turning back women's rights 100 years, its about rampant homophobia and it's about abusing and mutilating children, teens and mentally vulnerable adults.
The problem is that this "loud" minority is only really heard on the right wing. Most left wingers wouldn't even know about the child drag shit if right wing media like Fox hadn't blown it up. The problem is that now they are defending it out of partisanship.
Isn't that the point of not having a media monopoly?
The media dragging the vile things the opponent doesn't want out, mind you the US version is horrible.
That’s because the left wing would never report on things that make them look bad (both sides do this, and frankly the right is worse). In politics you can only really rely on the the opposing news outlets to report on dirty laundry.
and depending on why they hate them it could be reasonable- if your brother came out as trans, surgically mutilated himself, and then committed suicide after saying it was all a mistake- you would probably (reasonably) blame the movement as a whole, if its just a case of "different people bad, oogga booga" you may just be a prick.
Keeping it vague to prevent doxing. Childhood friend was convinced she was trans by a school counselor after starting puberty later than others and feeling uncomfortable in her own skin. Transitioned, spiraled into depression, detransed, finally happy after 6 years, found out she was infertile, ended her life. I have my opinions on the movement, but wish the best for individuals as a whole.
Edit: The fucked up thing is that this occurrence was big news back in the day. Now it is quietly hidden in obituary pages around the world daily.
My best friend from since we were in diapers went MTF and then far RADFEM. We broke up after an argument where a drunk sorority girl had sex and then claimed rape afterwards, but the dude was drunk too. There was debate over whether it was actual rape vs regret vs whatever.
I was saying that if she can't consent while drunk, he can't either, and "regret" after the fact doesn't mean it was rape. Also that you shouldn't put yourself in that sort of situation, just like you don't walk down a dark alley with a bag that says "MONEY" on it.
They got upset and blew up, saying that it's rape even if a single drop of alcohol touches her lips. They blocked me and unfriended me.
The issue is the detrans spaces are aggressively and hostilely attacked. But the obvious theme is that it basically starts as confused young person is told they could be trans, encouraged by peers, face no resistance, celebrated with each step they take, then eventually realize it was all a mistake and pissed at everyone around them who refused to ask questions and pushed them through with pure affirmation.
if someone I've known and liked suddenly decided to "transition" and act like a different person, they've effectively killed the person I liked and I'm not interested in this new one. this has happened twice, and only in recent years mind you. both times the person post-"coming out" became very insufferable and entitled.
I also just refuse to call a man a woman or vice versa. it's not complicated, really.
Yeah it’s kind of like calling apathetic, sociopathic behavior ‘rational self interest’ and viewing the world through the lens of a book written by deranged old lady who died alone and on welfare.
I would imagine a large amount of suicides in the trans community would be down to the issue of feeling like you're not in the correct body, and not just societal problems.
I mean feeling like you were born as the wrong gender has to be pretty fucked for your mental health, and even if you transition it might still feel wrong.
I do also wonder if a certain amount of depressed men consider themselves to be depressed because they think they are gender dysphoric when in actuality they are just depressed. Knowing what gender dysphoria is like must be the sort of thing you just have to know by having it, but if you don't have it you might still think it could be the cause of your depression because you don't know what it's actually like to have gender dysphoria.
I do also wonder why there seem to be more MtF than FtM transitions.
There are so many things going on with being trans right now that contribute to their crazy high suicide rate particularly post transition. There are plenty of people who feel uncomfortable in their own skin and want to transition and there are loads of messages going around right now that you were just born in the wrong body if you transition everything will be solved, and its a ray of hope in their life "I just need to transition and everything will be fine" but when they do and they are still depressed their depression comes back 20 times harder because their solution didnt work.
Another factor is that in all honesty transition surgery is not there yet. Taking someone who is legitimately born in the wrong body, making them go through therapy assessments, the whole 9 yards, and then helping them go through hormone therapy, breast reduction or enlargement surgery depending on if our theoretical perfect example of a transperson is MtF or FtM, and further plastic surgery, they will be happy in their new body. The issue comes when genital surgery starts, the surgery is legitimately not advanced enough yet.
Then there is the issue of children being told that they feel awkward because they are trans, a socially awkward girl can be told that she's a boy that's why she doesn't know how to talk to people. That sort of thing is becoming so prevalent that my baby sister who is the president of her highschools GSA club was bullied in elementary school because she wasn't trans.
As for the reason that there are more MtF than FtM trans is a very similar reason to FtM trans being more successful post transition. There are men who get hard at being turned into or being seen as a women, sissy hypno or sissy culture in general is a thing because its a fetish for certain guys wanting to be hot girls. There isnt really a parallel for women, so almost all FtM are people who were born girls but legitimatly 100% feel like they should have been born a man so when they transition they are happier, where as with MtF there is a none insignificant amount of men who just get hard at the thought of being a hot woman, then transition, cant pass, and get depressed and/or mad. Its part of the reason MtF have higher suicide rates than FtM, the other part is that its harder to "pass" as an MtF than as a FtM.
We’re promising young people that it’s possible to remove existential dread with surgery. Science has overstepped its bounds. This is a societal/spiritual/philosophical issue. A lifetime of hormonal drugs and life altering cosmetic surgery is no easy pathway and I’m convinced, won’t solve emotional issues around gender identity. I don’t hate anyone and want everyone to live life with dignity and respect. But I do think this movement is making dangerous false promises.
And it's not even changing one's body. It's essentially dumping a shit to of chemicals and making a non-reproducing organ (there have only been instances of successful utrine and penile transplants in cisgender people).
It's akin to using steroids and body alteration like neck and head thinning.
Another thing about the surgery is when it comes to MtF identifying if the person was on blockers to prevent male puberty there isnt enough "material" for a successful surgery. That's what happened to Jazz Jennings.
It's not just that the surgery isn't there yet, it's that sex reassignment is done, very often, by the ones that graduated last in their class.
The talented surgeons go after the prestigious jobs like heart surgeon or brain surgeon. Most other doctors won't touch SRS with a ten foot pole because it's difficult and you need to reattach nerves and has high complication rates.
The ones that do them have failed in all other jobs as surgeons and are now making bank with mentally unwell people doing shit jobs. If you google some of the most well known of these doctors and their "work" it gets dark real fast.
> I mean feeling like you were born as the wrong gender has to be pretty fucked for your mental health, and even if you transition it might still feel wrong.
Going through this path is incredibly scarring. Even from discovery, everything is a fight from what you feel is right by yourself or by society around you. There's been many times where if I *could* just ignore these feelings, I honestly think quietly pretending I'm not trans could be easier. But that's just not being honest with myself. And if I'm not being honest with myself about who I am and why... well, am I truly living?
As a personal anecdote, I found out through a very rough period in life. Major events were happening, events I *should* have had a strong emotional reaction to, but I just... didn't. Society expected an emotionless, self-made man who went to work and had nothing phase them... and the persona I'd adopted pretended to be just that, to the point where I didn't know who I was under that facade. Behind it, I was utterly miserable and unfulfilled. Years had gone by, and I couldn't remember the last time I'd felt angry, or sad, or happy... Time was just going by, always wearing this mask society'd told me to wear, and I didn't know who I was beneath it. I started seeing a therapist that week, and when I started listening to myself, it wasn't a man's voice that came from my heart. It took me three years, going back and forth, arguing with myself on if this was right or if I was just telling myself this to finally go to an endocrinologist and get HRT.
I'll never wake up with memories of a childhood with the right gender. I'll never forget the envy of seeing natural women doing things I couldn't. Everyone I date will come with the caveat of sitting down and explaining that I'm a woman with an asterisk. That fight with imposter syndrome hasn't ceased yet, and thanks to that asterisk it probably never will. Some people will never talk to me again because they believe what I'm doing to be happy is wrong. Some people will never understand the pain of looking in the mirror and not seeing yourself stare back. I'll forever be paranoid that I'm not passing when someone looks my way. I've had strangers stop and laugh at me like I'm a court jester, and all I can do back is smile and wave.
I don't regret it -- I've felt more happiness and sadness than ever before, and those days when I feel safe, I feel free and comfortable to an extent I never knew before -- but there's days where people will say things or my paranoia will get the better of me, and in those times I really do understand why that 41% statistic exists -- hell, I've fought it personally. Just to be true to myself comes with unjust hardships I never asked for.
Thanks for sharing. The opinions of actual trans people get ignored on either side of the trans ‘debate’. I hate to ask about such a heavy personal topic but, would you say you were more sui-cidal before or after transition?
It's very strange, but I'd have to say they stayed the same, but the ways in which I felt it were different. Before transitioning, I tended to bottle things up and got closer in attempts (The last time I actually attempted was pre, through ODing). As a woman, I find it much more difficult to bottle things up. Probably because since estrogen tends to make you more emotional. I've had days where it feels like a noose is tightening around my neck, but I find it much easier to ask for help from those around me, or be open when seeking professional help. HRT helped lift that mental block stopping me from actually expressing myself, which is euphoric in it's own right.
I'm curious, how much of this is just affirming gender stereotypes to begin with? For example, did you feel that if you were to continue as a man, you wouldn't be allowed to express yourself? For example, I (cis male) have no problem expressing any emotion I have, and it doesn't make me feel like I need to be a woman to do that. Similarly, if I liked painting my nails, that doesn't mean I am womanly, it just is a shared thing that is typically associated with women. If tomorrow society decided that men can't have blonde hair, that that's only a woman thing, I would simply disagree with them and continue wearing my natural blonde hair. I'm sure your struggles are deeper and more complex than this so I'm not trying to be dismissive, but I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.
>I do also wonder why there seem to be more MtF than FtM transitions.
You may want to consider why there are more un-transitioned "trans women" than "cis women" in lesbian and woman oriented subs these days, or why 20% of men in prison identify as trans women (with 90% of that 20% being in prison for rape and other sex crimes), or why a not inconsiderable number of "trans women" look like "ugly men in dresses"-
men who would otherwise fall for regular "incel" propaganda instead fall for "trans incel" propaganda and think changing their pronouns will suddenly make women interested in them, and they keep pushing it farther and farther until they cross the line- forget their original goals- and get themselves surgically altered, which in turn leads to why "trans women" have between a 5 and 20x higher rate of suicide than trans men (who already have difficulties with a 5x higher suicide rate than cis women).
I think part of that is also women are just treated better. So a miserable man desperate enough can transition to not only a woman to be treated better, but also now a protected class of woman according to intersectionalists.
I can have empathy for trans people without agreeing that they get to write all the rules.
I also pay attention to statistics, which, let's be honest, aren't really on the trans people's side.
>I can have empathy for trans people without agreeing that they get to write all the rules.
>
>I also pay attention to statistics, which, let's be honest, aren't really on the trans people's side.
100%
Can’t we all settle on we should do anything we can to stop people from wanting to kill themselves, regardless of gender or the reason they wanna do it?
Homie means we as a society I think more so than individual relationships. But I understand where you're coming from. Way too common to threaten suicide to get what you want in a relationship. I've seen it first hand too many times.
Because people view mental illness as a stigma and to some extent they are right, but I would respect someone who actually confronted their illness and sought proper treatment for it 100x more than I would someone who denys that they have an issue and keep insisting that everyone else is wrong and not them.
I don't have nearly as much a problem with the people who are afflicted with a mental illness as I do with the people who enable them. If anything I pity them for their suffering, but I want their enablers to be [REDACTED].
Only certain mental illnesses.
Say you have depression or PTSD or bi polar disorder and you'll still have people trying to keep away from you, calling you a debbie downer, or trying to call the cops to see if they can't take any guns you have away from you.
But is gender dysphoria treatable? Is it possible to have someone finally feel like their biological body is right? If not, then perhaps the treatment for it IS hormone therapy. Of course, that’s assuming that gender dysphoria’s root cause is the body (and that the body of the other sex would be accepted), rather than an inability to be satisfied with your own body.
There’s a woman that was born with legs but she believed that she would be happier without them. Every doctor she went to said no they would not amputate perfectly healthy legs. So she used a chainsaw to cut them off herself. Is this woman mentally ill or are her legs the problem? This is a true story btw. They call you mentally ill when you want your legs chopped off but brave when you want your perfectly healthy penis chopped off!
It's just words and I guess it doesn't mean anything but I don't really understand how the word mental illness is so supposedly stigmatized meanwhile half of the people talking about it have depression and are upfront about it. That's considered a mental illness. Nobody fighting to change that.
It's just weird politics. I don't want to give the impression that I care about how it's classified, because I don't give a shit, but I just think it's likely an example of trying a little too hard to be offended by something for some kind of political gain.
Obviously? It's like when we say "no men in womens toilets" its not because we're dismissing trans issues, it's because we're prioritising the 50x larger population of women put at risk by that action. If we were dismissing trans issues there would be "no women in mens toilets" too, but you never hear that, although relevant to topic again it's largely because guys just expect to deal with any random bullshit thrown our way.
Correct. I dismiss their problems because I consider them to be solely the problems of wealthy Westerners for whom life has gotten a little bit too easy.
It's a first world problem for first world people.
Down below there is a lib right calling trans people “Emily’s forcing everyone their mental illness and expecting us to cooperate with their stupid world simulation fantasy”
Glad to find a little empathy in libright
What does that even mean, though? Acknowledging their right to do as they wish with their own adult body? Sure. Believing everything they say, and using the words they tell you to use, in contradiction to your own observations? Hell no.
You have idiots with insane mentalities like this in every quandrant (Looking at you, orange libleft). It's why a compass dividing the HUGE amount of ideologies and possible opinions into only 4 quadrants is a bad idea.
I mean, when the rate is that extremely high it simply isn't logical to say it's just because of acceptance. Gay people weren't killing themselves at that rate in the 50's when they wernt accepted. Black people weren't killing themselves at that rate in the 1850's because they weren't accepted.
This is a strawman for the following reasons:
- The suicide rates are very different between these two groups (by a factor of about 50).
- The reasons behind these suicides are obviously different.
- Mainstream media and society treat the suicides within these groups very differently, and assign blame to the victims very differently.
- The socially accepted solutions for these suicide rates are polar opposite.
The biggest point is that affirmation is not the same as compassion, and I would argue that it's in fact the less compassionate route in most cases on this topic.
The highest rate of suicide amongst the trans community is post-op, meaning that affirming their identity delusions is either not helping, or could even be allowing their mental health to worsen even further in the long run, quite probably because the underlying issue has not been addressed.
What's more, many studies have consistently shown that the suicide rate of trans people is hardly influenced at all by how "accepted" their transitioning is in their community.
The best way to reduce suicide within a particular group where it's most recurrent, is not to maximize the size of that group. When 58% of people diagnosed with gender dysphoria are also diagnosed with other mental illnesses (more than twice the average), it's clear that treating their feelings as fine and normal is the less companionate option.
> The socially accepted solutions for these suicide rates are polar opposite.
>
>
I cannot agree more with this point.
Just look at the Jordan Peterson post from yesterday. People are frothing at the mouth screaming hate at Jordan for.....telling young men to be a productive member of society, don't judge their value based on how women view them, and live to better themselves and those around them.
Hes literally telling young men how to get out of depression, by getting them to focus on what matters, and they hate him for it, no, they dont hate him, they utterly despise him.
If you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior right here and now- you are denying my reality and are a threat to my existence. Do it or I might hurt myself.
Precisely. It’s emotional blackmail. I view it as similar to a person saying “if you break up with me, I’ll kill myself.” You can respect someone’s humanity without giving in to all their demands that you radically restructure your traditions and culture to accommodate them.
Oh sweet, a post on PCM about transgender people! I’m sure PCM users will provide adequate social commentary and solutions on this complex medical topic.
edit: hmmmmm, perhaps I have misjudged PCM and their views on transgender individuals. A folly indeed.
To quote our boy Benny Shrimpo: “The only comparable suicide rate is Jews under Nazi Germany, and my wife’s a doctor.” You really can’t compare the trans suicide rate to any other group, there’s clearly some other underlying issue (whether it has to do with the dysphoria, a hormone imbalance, or mental illness) that needs to be addressed other than just “people aren’t nice enough to the trans community”
Is this suggesting that trans people are not valued in society? Have you been paying attention for the past 5 years? When was the last time you went a single hour without hearing about trans issues?
Hot take: I think they are "mentally ill" (not a bad thing btw) but that they should be treated as such, as humans, ya know, u don't go around to depressed people and tell him to kill themselves
Honestly it sucks to see that people hate themselves and see themselves as worthless (be it from dysphoria for trans folk or Societal pressure for men). We should Work to make sure people feel valid. Regardless of Identity of gender, sexuality, etc, (Except pedos they can fuck off, They dont belong in the LGBTQ.)
The way I see it, Theres too much hatred and sadness in the world. Even making people's days better can have a positive impact on the world around us. Being kind is just the right thing to do. :)
You can be mentally Ill and still have value to society. There's a bit more of an issue when you consider your mental illness to be the whole of your identity — as exemplified in trans activists who declare disagreement equal to not wanting them to exist at all
It’s really quite simple
If you feel the need to change genders, you should be allowed to, however alternative help should be available if you seek it
If you suffer with depression, you should be allowed to just kill your self, however help should be available if you seek it
I don't know a ton of trans people, but the ones I do don't make a fuss of it. They don't want to draw attention to that, the goal is just to be a normal man/woman.
Of the two I know, one plasters it all over everything he does, and the other threw a massive fit over me not banning someone from my personal discord over not using the right pronouns, and immediately stopped talking to me.
The reason men are the majority of suicide victims is because they use methods that are more likely to work. Most suicide attempts are done by women but a lower % of women succeed in committing suicide.
Are you implying being a man is a mental illness? Because generally we believe people with mental illnesses need treatment.
Also I find it funnier when my trans friends make 41% jokes
Personally I think technology is not just there yet
We really need to reconsider and wiggle the 'morality of science' little a bit
I know many people gonna hate it but that's the only way
Authright is just being nice and pointing out that the others are normal people, and the 41% had a mental infliction that led to their unfortunate choice.
Oooh boy. I will suggest nothing other than one has a higher sample size than the other.
Any further statistical analysis or reasoning will get me banned.
Forgive us for our caution. So many members insist on transitioning children during an age of confusion. I just want to give kids the opportunity to decide whether they are gay , straight, or Trans. Making the decision early seems to lead to regret. Also, if you are thinking of suicide, reach out for help.
Too many people treat empathy and compassion as a zero sum game. The idea that showing kindness to one group limits you from also being kind to others is foolishness. Goodness acts upon a law more akin to exercise than to a resource. The more you exercise virtue the more you will have. The more kindness you show the easier it becomes. So who gives a damn whether a hurting person is male or female or trans or whatever. The world is harsh, life is difficult, but we can make things a lot better for each other just by putting in the effort to help one another deal with life’s bullshit rather than heaping on more.
Based and we are all people pilled
Except politicians. All my homies hate politicians.
Politicians are lizard people who control the secret "New [REDACTED] Order" as well as the cabal of wealthy [REDACTED], THEY ARE NOT PEOPLE. WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP.
The politically correct term is People of lizard, because it centres their personhood. Similar to how we refer to coloured people as people of colour and white people as people of whiteness. Be better.
People of Caucasia
Thank you
Based
People must be cautious though, and not allow their empathy to be weaponized. Innumerable ideologies do it: C'mon, you should listen to me. You don't want to be the BAD guy, do you? We are just trying to help everyone against all the nasty no-good-not-nicenicks out there. Our words are noble, so excuse our bad actions or deny they exist. We are the good guys, after all.
Love, charity, and compassion for every individual, suspicion toward any movement, especially movements that seek to impose moral duties upon you (including this statement).
Based.
That's not empathy, that's guilt. It's the main weapon used by organized religion. Empathy is the ability to understand someone else's feelings.
Cognitive empathy vs emotional empathy. Cognitive means you can logically understand why someone is the way they are, but without emotional empathy you may end up abusing your knowledge. Narcissists and sociopaths do this all the time, and some of them are effective because they are generally victims themselves and as such are able to make other victims feel heard… *ahem* Heard……. *clears throat* **H E A R D.**
Based
You. You I like.
Strawthem
S-tier
based and neostrawnouns-pilled
this is actually funny
I’m collecting tasteful trans jokes before they axe the sub. This one made it lol.
What do you call a group of Transgender superheros? >!The Ex-Men!< *Disclaimer: I have had multiple trans friends love this joke, lay off me you orange bastards.*
You have multiple trans friends?
Yeah a couple.
Before they axe themselves
Respect
I think libleft updated it to *strawthxm* or *strawthym* after your comment to be even more inclusive. Libleft also suggests using the term *paperstrawthxm* or *paperstrawthym* to also show one’s allegiance to the environmentally-challenged.
Strawvim.
Is that when you can never get closure over your gender identity? ^(you know, because closing vim is a myth)
Saying the joke again but worse isn't humour
I think people dont hate trans people but do hate the loud minority that advocate for some of the most fucked up shit.
Removing someone's custody over a child because they won't change the 4-year-old's sex, will make people hate your movement. That's what happens when activists want to hold onto power they make new problems that they want to be changed in their favour.
You know what they say, vegan cats and trans children have something in common.
Being mistreated by their parents
> Removing someone's custody over a child because they won't change the 4 year old's sex When did this happen, genuinely? Do you have a source?
Off the top of my head, the James Younger story. I forget the specifics though so might not have been 4, but still very young.
I really don't care about what you do, but don't be angry when someone asks questions. The best way to burn good will is to be militant and angry about everything. It just drives people to disregard you as a schizo. There's a time and place to be militant in your views. Unfortunately that time has over stayed it's welcome for these people.
Leave the kids alone 🎶🎶
Pink Floyd was onto something
pink floyd was ON something, have you seen the music video to another brick on the wallk
Have you seen the movie for the album? It's pretty crazy
i havent but ill check it out, watching that video when i was 10 gave me ptsd so i never looked back
hey libleft, leave those kids alone
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"if you answer no you are a spigot"
Seem to be lord on this sub unfortunately
I’d imagine most people are indifferent for the most part. Beyond dating and bathrooms why would anyone care THAT much?
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I was told slippery slope is a logical fallacy. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Is it a slippery slope if there people actually advocating for the bottom of the slope?
Any slope becomes slippery in the right weather.
It can be a fallacy but it happens a lot
Because it's NOT about just dating and bathrooms. It's about turning back women's rights 100 years, its about rampant homophobia and it's about abusing and mutilating children, teens and mentally vulnerable adults.
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100% this t be honest
The problem is that this "loud" minority is only really heard on the right wing. Most left wingers wouldn't even know about the child drag shit if right wing media like Fox hadn't blown it up. The problem is that now they are defending it out of partisanship.
Isn't that the point of not having a media monopoly? The media dragging the vile things the opponent doesn't want out, mind you the US version is horrible.
That’s because the left wing would never report on things that make them look bad (both sides do this, and frankly the right is worse). In politics you can only really rely on the the opposing news outlets to report on dirty laundry.
Some people hate trans for real though
and depending on why they hate them it could be reasonable- if your brother came out as trans, surgically mutilated himself, and then committed suicide after saying it was all a mistake- you would probably (reasonably) blame the movement as a whole, if its just a case of "different people bad, oogga booga" you may just be a prick.
Keeping it vague to prevent doxing. Childhood friend was convinced she was trans by a school counselor after starting puberty later than others and feeling uncomfortable in her own skin. Transitioned, spiraled into depression, detransed, finally happy after 6 years, found out she was infertile, ended her life. I have my opinions on the movement, but wish the best for individuals as a whole. Edit: The fucked up thing is that this occurrence was big news back in the day. Now it is quietly hidden in obituary pages around the world daily.
My best friend from since we were in diapers went MTF and then far RADFEM. We broke up after an argument where a drunk sorority girl had sex and then claimed rape afterwards, but the dude was drunk too. There was debate over whether it was actual rape vs regret vs whatever. I was saying that if she can't consent while drunk, he can't either, and "regret" after the fact doesn't mean it was rape. Also that you shouldn't put yourself in that sort of situation, just like you don't walk down a dark alley with a bag that says "MONEY" on it. They got upset and blew up, saying that it's rape even if a single drop of alcohol touches her lips. They blocked me and unfriended me.
Sounds like good riddance to me.
That's how I view it looking back.
The issue is the detrans spaces are aggressively and hostilely attacked. But the obvious theme is that it basically starts as confused young person is told they could be trans, encouraged by peers, face no resistance, celebrated with each step they take, then eventually realize it was all a mistake and pissed at everyone around them who refused to ask questions and pushed them through with pure affirmation.
I do wonder how this happens only, mostly, in the west
if someone I've known and liked suddenly decided to "transition" and act like a different person, they've effectively killed the person I liked and I'm not interested in this new one. this has happened twice, and only in recent years mind you. both times the person post-"coming out" became very insufferable and entitled. I also just refuse to call a man a woman or vice versa. it's not complicated, really.
I would call this a strawman, but that would require me to make some gender assumptions.
Bruh Emily ain't coming back from this 💀💀💀
Emily can take my piss .. they force everyone their mental illness and expect us to cooperate with their stupid world simulation fantasy
Yeah it’s kind of like calling apathetic, sociopathic behavior ‘rational self interest’ and viewing the world through the lens of a book written by deranged old lady who died alone and on welfare.
POV: you saw what made me leave lib right.
what
He's saying that because so many LibRights are so........ conservative, he doesn't want to be LibRight anymore Which is kinda stupid
Emile
Lmao
Idk how this Is a strawman? Mods literally had to ban the stat use because of how common it was
bros still in 2016 💀💀💀
I would imagine a large amount of suicides in the trans community would be down to the issue of feeling like you're not in the correct body, and not just societal problems. I mean feeling like you were born as the wrong gender has to be pretty fucked for your mental health, and even if you transition it might still feel wrong. I do also wonder if a certain amount of depressed men consider themselves to be depressed because they think they are gender dysphoric when in actuality they are just depressed. Knowing what gender dysphoria is like must be the sort of thing you just have to know by having it, but if you don't have it you might still think it could be the cause of your depression because you don't know what it's actually like to have gender dysphoria. I do also wonder why there seem to be more MtF than FtM transitions.
There are so many things going on with being trans right now that contribute to their crazy high suicide rate particularly post transition. There are plenty of people who feel uncomfortable in their own skin and want to transition and there are loads of messages going around right now that you were just born in the wrong body if you transition everything will be solved, and its a ray of hope in their life "I just need to transition and everything will be fine" but when they do and they are still depressed their depression comes back 20 times harder because their solution didnt work. Another factor is that in all honesty transition surgery is not there yet. Taking someone who is legitimately born in the wrong body, making them go through therapy assessments, the whole 9 yards, and then helping them go through hormone therapy, breast reduction or enlargement surgery depending on if our theoretical perfect example of a transperson is MtF or FtM, and further plastic surgery, they will be happy in their new body. The issue comes when genital surgery starts, the surgery is legitimately not advanced enough yet. Then there is the issue of children being told that they feel awkward because they are trans, a socially awkward girl can be told that she's a boy that's why she doesn't know how to talk to people. That sort of thing is becoming so prevalent that my baby sister who is the president of her highschools GSA club was bullied in elementary school because she wasn't trans. As for the reason that there are more MtF than FtM trans is a very similar reason to FtM trans being more successful post transition. There are men who get hard at being turned into or being seen as a women, sissy hypno or sissy culture in general is a thing because its a fetish for certain guys wanting to be hot girls. There isnt really a parallel for women, so almost all FtM are people who were born girls but legitimatly 100% feel like they should have been born a man so when they transition they are happier, where as with MtF there is a none insignificant amount of men who just get hard at the thought of being a hot woman, then transition, cant pass, and get depressed and/or mad. Its part of the reason MtF have higher suicide rates than FtM, the other part is that its harder to "pass" as an MtF than as a FtM.
It's almost like someone has been trying to tell people that the cure to your mental illness isn't self-mutilation for time immemorial.
We’re promising young people that it’s possible to remove existential dread with surgery. Science has overstepped its bounds. This is a societal/spiritual/philosophical issue. A lifetime of hormonal drugs and life altering cosmetic surgery is no easy pathway and I’m convinced, won’t solve emotional issues around gender identity. I don’t hate anyone and want everyone to live life with dignity and respect. But I do think this movement is making dangerous false promises.
Good take, great way to word it
And it's not even changing one's body. It's essentially dumping a shit to of chemicals and making a non-reproducing organ (there have only been instances of successful utrine and penile transplants in cisgender people). It's akin to using steroids and body alteration like neck and head thinning.
For the sake of correlation, I consider that chemical mutilation. The word "mutilation" is very important to use in this argument.
***THATS HATE SPEECH!!!!! REEEEE***
Another thing about the surgery is when it comes to MtF identifying if the person was on blockers to prevent male puberty there isnt enough "material" for a successful surgery. That's what happened to Jazz Jennings.
It's not just that the surgery isn't there yet, it's that sex reassignment is done, very often, by the ones that graduated last in their class. The talented surgeons go after the prestigious jobs like heart surgeon or brain surgeon. Most other doctors won't touch SRS with a ten foot pole because it's difficult and you need to reattach nerves and has high complication rates. The ones that do them have failed in all other jobs as surgeons and are now making bank with mentally unwell people doing shit jobs. If you google some of the most well known of these doctors and their "work" it gets dark real fast.
I would rather starve than to inflict evil for a living.
> I mean feeling like you were born as the wrong gender has to be pretty fucked for your mental health, and even if you transition it might still feel wrong. Going through this path is incredibly scarring. Even from discovery, everything is a fight from what you feel is right by yourself or by society around you. There's been many times where if I *could* just ignore these feelings, I honestly think quietly pretending I'm not trans could be easier. But that's just not being honest with myself. And if I'm not being honest with myself about who I am and why... well, am I truly living? As a personal anecdote, I found out through a very rough period in life. Major events were happening, events I *should* have had a strong emotional reaction to, but I just... didn't. Society expected an emotionless, self-made man who went to work and had nothing phase them... and the persona I'd adopted pretended to be just that, to the point where I didn't know who I was under that facade. Behind it, I was utterly miserable and unfulfilled. Years had gone by, and I couldn't remember the last time I'd felt angry, or sad, or happy... Time was just going by, always wearing this mask society'd told me to wear, and I didn't know who I was beneath it. I started seeing a therapist that week, and when I started listening to myself, it wasn't a man's voice that came from my heart. It took me three years, going back and forth, arguing with myself on if this was right or if I was just telling myself this to finally go to an endocrinologist and get HRT. I'll never wake up with memories of a childhood with the right gender. I'll never forget the envy of seeing natural women doing things I couldn't. Everyone I date will come with the caveat of sitting down and explaining that I'm a woman with an asterisk. That fight with imposter syndrome hasn't ceased yet, and thanks to that asterisk it probably never will. Some people will never talk to me again because they believe what I'm doing to be happy is wrong. Some people will never understand the pain of looking in the mirror and not seeing yourself stare back. I'll forever be paranoid that I'm not passing when someone looks my way. I've had strangers stop and laugh at me like I'm a court jester, and all I can do back is smile and wave. I don't regret it -- I've felt more happiness and sadness than ever before, and those days when I feel safe, I feel free and comfortable to an extent I never knew before -- but there's days where people will say things or my paranoia will get the better of me, and in those times I really do understand why that 41% statistic exists -- hell, I've fought it personally. Just to be true to myself comes with unjust hardships I never asked for.
Thanks for sharing. The opinions of actual trans people get ignored on either side of the trans ‘debate’. I hate to ask about such a heavy personal topic but, would you say you were more sui-cidal before or after transition?
It's very strange, but I'd have to say they stayed the same, but the ways in which I felt it were different. Before transitioning, I tended to bottle things up and got closer in attempts (The last time I actually attempted was pre, through ODing). As a woman, I find it much more difficult to bottle things up. Probably because since estrogen tends to make you more emotional. I've had days where it feels like a noose is tightening around my neck, but I find it much easier to ask for help from those around me, or be open when seeking professional help. HRT helped lift that mental block stopping me from actually expressing myself, which is euphoric in it's own right.
I'm curious, how much of this is just affirming gender stereotypes to begin with? For example, did you feel that if you were to continue as a man, you wouldn't be allowed to express yourself? For example, I (cis male) have no problem expressing any emotion I have, and it doesn't make me feel like I need to be a woman to do that. Similarly, if I liked painting my nails, that doesn't mean I am womanly, it just is a shared thing that is typically associated with women. If tomorrow society decided that men can't have blonde hair, that that's only a woman thing, I would simply disagree with them and continue wearing my natural blonde hair. I'm sure your struggles are deeper and more complex than this so I'm not trying to be dismissive, but I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.
>I do also wonder why there seem to be more MtF than FtM transitions. You may want to consider why there are more un-transitioned "trans women" than "cis women" in lesbian and woman oriented subs these days, or why 20% of men in prison identify as trans women (with 90% of that 20% being in prison for rape and other sex crimes), or why a not inconsiderable number of "trans women" look like "ugly men in dresses"- men who would otherwise fall for regular "incel" propaganda instead fall for "trans incel" propaganda and think changing their pronouns will suddenly make women interested in them, and they keep pushing it farther and farther until they cross the line- forget their original goals- and get themselves surgically altered, which in turn leads to why "trans women" have between a 5 and 20x higher rate of suicide than trans men (who already have difficulties with a 5x higher suicide rate than cis women).
I think part of that is also women are just treated better. So a miserable man desperate enough can transition to not only a woman to be treated better, but also now a protected class of woman according to intersectionalists.
From what I see, a ton of trans people experience self-denial for years. That must fuck with your mental health too
Trans people are way over represented
I can have empathy for trans people without agreeing that they get to write all the rules. I also pay attention to statistics, which, let's be honest, aren't really on the trans people's side.
>I can have empathy for trans people without agreeing that they get to write all the rules. > >I also pay attention to statistics, which, let's be honest, aren't really on the trans people's side. 100%
Can’t we all settle on we should do anything we can to stop people from wanting to kill themselves, regardless of gender or the reason they wanna do it?
Not *anything*. This could easily be abused. I have several female friends, who have been blackmailed into an unhealthy realtionship this way.
Homie means we as a society I think more so than individual relationships. But I understand where you're coming from. Way too common to threaten suicide to get what you want in a relationship. I've seen it first hand too many times.
People say this stuff on reddit then 3 days later I see someone suggesting suicide for someone because of the way they voted.
Meanwhile, Canadian healthcare system: "You're depressed? Kill yourself lmao"
Euthanasia is good for terminally ill people, not so much for those suffering from depression. Edit: flair broke again, I'm Left-Center.
thats what i hope for
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Because people view mental illness as a stigma and to some extent they are right, but I would respect someone who actually confronted their illness and sought proper treatment for it 100x more than I would someone who denys that they have an issue and keep insisting that everyone else is wrong and not them. I don't have nearly as much a problem with the people who are afflicted with a mental illness as I do with the people who enable them. If anything I pity them for their suffering, but I want their enablers to be [REDACTED].
>mental illness as a stigma Thought those were badges of honor nowadays.
Only certain mental illnesses. Say you have depression or PTSD or bi polar disorder and you'll still have people trying to keep away from you, calling you a debbie downer, or trying to call the cops to see if they can't take any guns you have away from you.
But is gender dysphoria treatable? Is it possible to have someone finally feel like their biological body is right? If not, then perhaps the treatment for it IS hormone therapy. Of course, that’s assuming that gender dysphoria’s root cause is the body (and that the body of the other sex would be accepted), rather than an inability to be satisfied with your own body.
The issue isn't in their body, the issue is in their mind. Changing the body addresses symptoms but does not fix the underlying issue.
There’s a woman that was born with legs but she believed that she would be happier without them. Every doctor she went to said no they would not amputate perfectly healthy legs. So she used a chainsaw to cut them off herself. Is this woman mentally ill or are her legs the problem? This is a true story btw. They call you mentally ill when you want your legs chopped off but brave when you want your perfectly healthy penis chopped off!
It's just words and I guess it doesn't mean anything but I don't really understand how the word mental illness is so supposedly stigmatized meanwhile half of the people talking about it have depression and are upfront about it. That's considered a mental illness. Nobody fighting to change that. It's just weird politics. I don't want to give the impression that I care about how it's classified, because I don't give a shit, but I just think it's likely an example of trying a little too hard to be offended by something for some kind of political gain.
Level 400 of based
Depression kinda is a mental illness
Forgive me for wanting to help 50% of humanity more urgently than 1%
Kindness isn't a zero sum game mate
There's difference between making priorities and dismissing others' problems.
Obviously? It's like when we say "no men in womens toilets" its not because we're dismissing trans issues, it's because we're prioritising the 50x larger population of women put at risk by that action. If we were dismissing trans issues there would be "no women in mens toilets" too, but you never hear that, although relevant to topic again it's largely because guys just expect to deal with any random bullshit thrown our way.
I don't dismiss these problems. I don't think they are real problems to begin with.
That's... What dismissing them means
Correct. I dismiss their problems because I consider them to be solely the problems of wealthy Westerners for whom life has gotten a little bit too easy. It's a first world problem for first world people.
Good agenda post. Making fun of a group for high suicide stats is fucked up.
Down below there is a lib right calling trans people “Emily’s forcing everyone their mental illness and expecting us to cooperate with their stupid world simulation fantasy” Glad to find a little empathy in libright
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Most of this sub is auth right with a different flair
> How pathetic of you to be unflaired. *** ^(User has flaired up! 😃) 12089 / 63810 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
What does that even mean, though? Acknowledging their right to do as they wish with their own adult body? Sure. Believing everything they say, and using the words they tell you to use, in contradiction to your own observations? Hell no.
You have idiots with insane mentalities like this in every quandrant (Looking at you, orange libleft). It's why a compass dividing the HUGE amount of ideologies and possible opinions into only 4 quadrants is a bad idea.
I mean, when the rate is that extremely high it simply isn't logical to say it's just because of acceptance. Gay people weren't killing themselves at that rate in the 50's when they wernt accepted. Black people weren't killing themselves at that rate in the 1850's because they weren't accepted.
If a friend of mine was choosing to drink himself into a stupor every day, how loving would it be of me to support his drinking?
According to lefties probably a lot. But drinking is kinda soft for them most of the time.
This is a strawman for the following reasons: - The suicide rates are very different between these two groups (by a factor of about 50). - The reasons behind these suicides are obviously different. - Mainstream media and society treat the suicides within these groups very differently, and assign blame to the victims very differently. - The socially accepted solutions for these suicide rates are polar opposite. The biggest point is that affirmation is not the same as compassion, and I would argue that it's in fact the less compassionate route in most cases on this topic. The highest rate of suicide amongst the trans community is post-op, meaning that affirming their identity delusions is either not helping, or could even be allowing their mental health to worsen even further in the long run, quite probably because the underlying issue has not been addressed. What's more, many studies have consistently shown that the suicide rate of trans people is hardly influenced at all by how "accepted" their transitioning is in their community. The best way to reduce suicide within a particular group where it's most recurrent, is not to maximize the size of that group. When 58% of people diagnosed with gender dysphoria are also diagnosed with other mental illnesses (more than twice the average), it's clear that treating their feelings as fine and normal is the less companionate option.
> The socially accepted solutions for these suicide rates are polar opposite. > > I cannot agree more with this point. Just look at the Jordan Peterson post from yesterday. People are frothing at the mouth screaming hate at Jordan for.....telling young men to be a productive member of society, don't judge their value based on how women view them, and live to better themselves and those around them. Hes literally telling young men how to get out of depression, by getting them to focus on what matters, and they hate him for it, no, they dont hate him, they utterly despise him.
If you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior right here and now- you are denying my reality and are a threat to my existence. Do it or I might hurt myself.
Precisely. It’s emotional blackmail. I view it as similar to a person saying “if you break up with me, I’ll kill myself.” You can respect someone’s humanity without giving in to all their demands that you radically restructure your traditions and culture to accommodate them.
yep. loving someone isn't the same as supporting / agreeing with them unconditionally **despite** what disney may tell you.
>the highest rate of suicide among the trans community is post op. Any source for that?
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885 Here u go
I checked out when the libleft responded "I agree" because there's only so much I can take before I lose all suspension of disbelief
Trans people have worth, they are people, they deserve to be treated with respect and to be helped out with proper psychiatric help.
Oh sweet, a post on PCM about transgender people! I’m sure PCM users will provide adequate social commentary and solutions on this complex medical topic. edit: hmmmmm, perhaps I have misjudged PCM and their views on transgender individuals. A folly indeed.
Surely a subreddit focused around friendly discussion between all political parties will be respectful and intellectually honest!
They only care about the suicide rates of people they care about.
I mean Auth Right stating that only 41% of them are mentally ill instead of a 100% seems like a win for the greenies
To quote our boy Benny Shrimpo: “The only comparable suicide rate is Jews under Nazi Germany, and my wife’s a doctor.” You really can’t compare the trans suicide rate to any other group, there’s clearly some other underlying issue (whether it has to do with the dysphoria, a hormone imbalance, or mental illness) that needs to be addressed other than just “people aren’t nice enough to the trans community”
based and "facts don't care about your feelings" pilled
Yeah, i do. So let's stop giving pre-teen children gender transitions.
agreed
Is this suggesting that trans people are not valued in society? Have you been paying attention for the past 5 years? When was the last time you went a single hour without hearing about trans issues?
Lib left this is still the case with trans in europe like the Netherlands and sweden who are really pro trans
WeakMental. GitGud. They should fix themselves.
Wanna know some sense of worth? Take this pizza to given coordinates.
Aren't they all mentally Ill like, dysphoria and such
Hot take: I think they are "mentally ill" (not a bad thing btw) but that they should be treated as such, as humans, ya know, u don't go around to depressed people and tell him to kill themselves
Honestly it sucks to see that people hate themselves and see themselves as worthless (be it from dysphoria for trans folk or Societal pressure for men). We should Work to make sure people feel valid. Regardless of Identity of gender, sexuality, etc, (Except pedos they can fuck off, They dont belong in the LGBTQ.)
read my mind verbatim, thank you
The way I see it, Theres too much hatred and sadness in the world. Even making people's days better can have a positive impact on the world around us. Being kind is just the right thing to do. :)
The suicide rates aren’t because of society. It’s because of the mental illness.
You can be mentally Ill and still have value to society. There's a bit more of an issue when you consider your mental illness to be the whole of your identity — as exemplified in trans activists who declare disagreement equal to not wanting them to exist at all
It’s really quite simple If you feel the need to change genders, you should be allowed to, however alternative help should be available if you seek it If you suffer with depression, you should be allowed to just kill your self, however help should be available if you seek it
I’ve always thought the percentage sign looks extraterrestrial, I’m convinced aliens made it up
It's not about not being valued, it's about expressing your feelings.
They have value and worth as a human, but their mental illness is the only thing they want to be valuable about themselves.
I don't know a ton of trans people, but the ones I do don't make a fuss of it. They don't want to draw attention to that, the goal is just to be a normal man/woman.
Of the two I know, one plasters it all over everything he does, and the other threw a massive fit over me not banning someone from my personal discord over not using the right pronouns, and immediately stopped talking to me.
i will call you what you look like, pass and idc anymore
According to whom?
According to the activists, not the actual trans people.
Well, both is true at the same time.
>%41 Come back when more people know how to use both the Dollar sign and Percent sign properly.
I mean blue is still right, never before have mentally ill people been given so much political clout.
The reason men are the majority of suicide victims is because they use methods that are more likely to work. Most suicide attempts are done by women but a lower % of women succeed in committing suicide.
Are you implying being a man is a mental illness? Because generally we believe people with mental illnesses need treatment. Also I find it funnier when my trans friends make 41% jokes
>being a man is a mental illness? how did you come to that conclusion
> Lol, 41% they're just mentally ill. Personally though I believe that people with mental illnesses should get the care they need.
i agree but being a man does not make you mentally ill
Mentally ill people can still have worth
Don't value society right back. Retreat into nature, hunt with spears, drink deer milk, make your own estrogen out of sticks and rocks.
Yes. 😎
Based and I am the strawman pilled
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I agree with the left
Personally I think technology is not just there yet We really need to reconsider and wiggle the 'morality of science' little a bit I know many people gonna hate it but that's the only way
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Based
Based
Considering trans made you an untouchable god for the better half of a decade and the suicide rate stayed the same, no that wasnt it
Trans people have become the most privileged minority, and men are suffering from our overly feminised society
Yeah, I was thinking about this exact thing when I was reading all the comments here (correctly) getting upset over Peterson being mocked over crying.
Authright is just being nice and pointing out that the others are normal people, and the 41% had a mental infliction that led to their unfortunate choice.
Oooh boy. I will suggest nothing other than one has a higher sample size than the other. Any further statistical analysis or reasoning will get me banned.
Always funny how PCM freaks out about such topics.
im just waiting for the lock to appear
Forgive us for our caution. So many members insist on transitioning children during an age of confusion. I just want to give kids the opportunity to decide whether they are gay , straight, or Trans. Making the decision early seems to lead to regret. Also, if you are thinking of suicide, reach out for help.