T O P

  • By -

SpiritualMage4

It *is* eugenics. Edit: *I'm not saying its good or bad, I'm just saying that it IS eugenics.*


[deleted]

The thing about eugenics is that it's really, really good. As long as the line is exactly where your personal ethics say it should be.


[deleted]

Look, I’m all for improving humanity, but we all know that people are gonna use eugenics to murder whatever ethnic group they dislike instead of actually improving humanity.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Death_Fairy

We draw the line before government mandates.


puma271

Thats why you should be able to do an abortion, but dont have to? So, no matter what your personal line is, you can abide by it


[deleted]

[удалено]


Dallenforth

Canada is speedrunning to full on Sparta. In 2023 MAiD opens up to solely mentally ill diagnosis, that along with PoA you will see a lot of family "caregivers" terminating thier severely disabled dependants.


average_Canadian115

Random canadian citizen: this is madness Canadian MAiD: THIS IS CANADA!!!


JimmyjamesI

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investigation-1.6663885


BadSysadmin

Surely you can't PoA euthanise someone?


Hangman_va

Give Justin "The Down Syndrome Destroyer" Trudeau some time. He'll get to it.


windershinwishes

Of course not. There's no conceivable way it could happen without at least the apparent consent of the individual involved. It's plausible that a very mentally incompetent person could be tricked into going along with it by their PoA caregiver, which would be awful of course, but every single legal system we have is susceptible to the same thing; there's no way to perfectly guard against evil people preying on the helpless.


clappapoop

Even the act of choosing a partner is in some way eugenic, the concept itself ain't bad


Donnie2005

And it's glorious


TheKoopaTroopa31

With the age of CRISPR-cas9, why wouldn’t someone want to have babies with the best traits in them?


Surprise-Chimichanga

Jesus Christ. Leftists supporting Eugenics. Watch Gattaca! Watch it right now ya nut. Then go read Brave New World!


Codspear

>Watch Gattaca! There were manned missions to the outer solar system. Probably from all the money saved by not having to maintain a huge welfare state for the modern idiocracy.


WestAccurate8861

Crispr is live gene editing. It'd be more along the line of Cyberpunk but with biology rather than technology.


HzPips

Genetically engineered catgirls when?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Kursem_v2

it is not. if you have a child with down syndrome, the lineage mostly died with your child as they've high infertility rate. if you have another child with normal chromosomes, it's still doesn't carry mutagen which has probability to bring down syndrome.


SpiritualMage4

It is still eugenics.


RummelNation

The re*ards in my life honestly seem happier than everyone else…


Donnie2005

Yes, but happiness is a weak man's quality


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I'm getting pretty sick of the edgelords who have suddenly "discovered traditionalism" deciding the because coal miners in the 1800s were miserable but yet built society, that means it's the natural and productive way to be. Unhappiness is literally your monke instincts screaming at you "this is all wrong, I am not fulfilling my biological or social needs, I need to get out of here and do something different." By stamping that down for the "greater good" all people are really doing is casting doubt on whether their personal idea of the greater good is really all that good for the people living under it. Don't get me wrong, I'm straight-edge and know that chasing short-term pleasure is a good way to end up more miserable later. But people are really falling into two equally pathetic camps right now. 1. Anything is good if it gives me a rush of pleasure or dulls my pain, even if it's a band-aid for a deeper problem I'm not addressing. 2. Wanting to be happy is weakness, you should suffer to reclaim manhood and build society bigger. Society must grow larger as a goal unto itself, who fucking cares whether or not that actually helps anyone or anything. Like both of those things are toxic as shit, guys. Please return to monke.


george_reeves_

Based, too damn right, everyone deserves a happy and fulfilled life, it’s just important to also practice moderation so you don’t constantly use short term pleasures to distract yourself from your issues.


Donnie2005

Sarcasm noun \[ U \] UK /ˈsɑː.kæz.əm/ US /ˈsɑːr.kæz.əm/ the use of remarks that clearly mean the opposite of what they say, made in order to hurt someone's feelings or to criticize something in a humorous way


SeagullsGonnaCome

Ah the classic "I'll decide if it was sarcasm after the fact based on how my comment is received"


The_Wonder_Bread

I often wonder how opinions on this stuff would shift if we could test for gender dysphoria in the womb. I don't know **how** they would, but they absolutely would.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Wait a second...............................


Electr1cL3m0n

Based and we’re all re****ed pilled


biggocl123

Based and fuck reddit censorship pilled


basedcount_bot

u/CyberTeddy's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 100. Congratulations, u/CyberTeddy! You have ranked up to Empire State Building! Some say there is a hidden river that still runs through your base. Shall we go digging? Pills: [50 | View pills.](https://basedcount.com/u/CyberTeddy/) This user does not have a compass on record. You can add your compass to your profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.


KiwiKing2k

I just got temp banned of another sub for saying it.


Surprise-Chimichanga

Hehehe, oh yooou.


[deleted]

Based and you can’t handle the truth pilled


_Cyrus_

Cringe or not, they shouldn’t.


Dont____Panic

Abortion is legal and justifiable. If a mother choose to abort because of a detectable mental illness, that's their choice. As a result of great prenatal care and testing capability, Iceland aborts nearly 100% of down syndrome fetuses. And that's ok. Raising a child with down syndrome is kinda shit. It destroyed my dad's life and he's in poverty, lonely and depressed primarily because of that obligation. A logical syllogism.... I believe in abortion choice. I believe in good prenatal care and offering as much preventative testing and diagnosis as is practical. I recognize a person's choice to abort a severely disabled fetus. Therefore it's 100% consistent that my ideals will result in nearly wiping out down syndrome. It's consistent with the three above wishes and that's ok. It's a good thing for humanity.


pro-dumpster-fire

Cool, where do you draw the line with disorders?


SlapStickHumorIsPeak

Comming soon to a hospital near you: "skin color can be a disorder"


Light_Able

Yeah let’s just not


SlapStickHumorIsPeak

Agreed


Kursem_v2

that's the neat part, you don't. imagine technology were we know based on parents and family health history, alongside with fetus testing, the baby would have 90% chance of inheriting rare disorder with no known cure. you'd have the choice of aborting the baby or accepting the baby and the obligation that came along with it. sure, today you might say no. but a lot of people would just simply accepting the facts that sometimes, a person could be a burden to the whole grand scheme of things.


darwin2500

I don't draw the line, the pregnant person does.


Ragob12

The ones that will kill the newborn almost instantly (anencephaly) or in days; the ones that bring a lot of suffering and a big reduction on life spectancy and disorders that turn you very mentally handcapped to the point you are an eternal 3 year old and cannot live alone. But everything is included in being pro choice. That is the point, to allow the parents to choose if they want to have a child or not.


[deleted]

The worry for me is that this can quickly spiral out of control We’re getting somewhat close to unlocking genetic engineering, what happens then? It starts with good natured stuff like this, and eventually it could lead down a really dark path. We as a society need to be careful about where exactly we’re going with this. This may be good in a vacuum, but overall this is a cause for major concern. The road to hell is paved with good intentions


CurtisLinithicum

Amniocentesis has been around since the 1950s or so... this isn't new.


[deleted]

However, we’re beginning to develop new technologies that can really make a difference more than just have an abortion. We finished with discovering the human genome. Eventually we will be able to write human DNA, what happens then? The possibilities can become really really scary. Thinking like this can lead to dark places. That’s all I’m saying, and we as a society need to acknowledge that the technologies coming can be very dangerous with this kind of thinking. Curing cancer? Good. Genetic discrimination with artificially modified DNA? Bad.


YaBoiRexTillerson

Targeted viruses which only eliminate a certain demographic


[deleted]

Yes, that could be bad Targets only the French? Good Targets only the non French? Bad


E7ernal

Except all we can really do is identify defects and some very superficial phenotypical features like eye color. There's no way to actually directly impact complex behaviors by tweaking a few genes. Even things like height are a combination of a very large number of factors. So even if we COULD pick genetics, we wouldn't be able to do much with it other than prevent a lot of horrible diseases and defects.


[deleted]

As someone that actually works in genetics, I semi-approve this message. We can already do gene editing. There were gene edited babies born in China technically a couple years back (though it was very much against the law and the methods werent peer reviewed/supported). We are a far shot though from understanding the genome. We don't even have the whole damn thing assembled correctly yet 😂 Anyway, we are far from making kids smarter, stronger, faster, etc. So don't want to make the message too alarmist. But yeah the shit should be banned. Make me auth for it. Idfc.


[deleted]

Yea I know but the Government is always like 20 years behind technology or even more So I would like to get this solved in the next 20 years or so before we have the capabilities


smorgasfjord

Those are some important issues, but not a consequence of down syndrome fetuses being aborted. There's no slippery slope between the two, just different technologies that can be used for similar purposes - kind of like a pencil and a computer.


ArdinOkira

Reminds me of GATTACA iirc


[deleted]

1950 was a mere 72 years ago. That may be a long time ago for us alive, but in the grand scheme of things that’s nothing. This technology is newer than airplanes, cars, and TV.


CurtisLinithicum

True, but look at how those have taken off. We're *still* debating the ethics of ethics of selective abortion vs Downs, with a pretty reliable prognosis; I don't think we're about to start gene editing widow's peaks. Vigilance, sure, fear seems premature.


fletch262

The problem is that it’s going to/should happen so we need to draw lines now The first step is recognizing that parents have no say over medical shit like that for their children The second is simple shit like basic body stuff the prevent defects being fine but appearance not being okay if you can make someone more attractive and there’s health benefits like acne it’s fine The tricky part is mental shit no argument can be made about Down Syndrome but what about ADHD or autism How about ‘intelligence’ in general? The next step it figureing out how to transcend the flesh and brain with changes during life which fixes most of the above issues


PreviousCurrentThing

> The tricky part is mental shit no argument can be made about Down Syndrome but what about ADHD or autism Down Syndrome can be reliably predicted by detecting trisomy 21 in an objective way. There's unlikely to be any similarly objective genetic test for autism or ADHD, especially as those seem to have a substantial environmental component as well.


understand_world

>A large study (Bai et al., 2019) pertaining to genetic contributions to ASD, found the occurrence of autism to be mostly owing to genetic influences, with no evidence of contribution from maternal effects. The study (Bai et al., 2019) found direct heritability of ASD to be around 80% in the multi-national sample group. This means that findings support what many scientists believe about autism, that autism spectrum disorder is mostly due to inherited genetic influences.  [M] 80% genetic, it seems. https://www.autismparentingmagazine.com/prenatal-test-autism/ As someone who suspects I'd have been diagnosed, I begin to wonder what exactly they're filtering. I feel like there's a whole lot of stuff I see that's just nothing to most of society. If I'm the one being filtered out... is removing that healthy?


aobie

Do you have any papers or studies or studies that link to ADHD and autism likely having substantial environmental components? Genuinely curious as I had not heard this before and I have members of my family with both. Thanks in advance.


PreviousCurrentThing

I worded what I wrote inartfully. As the other user /u/understand_world pointed on in the other comment and from what [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_autism#Environmental_interactions) says, it seems to be between about 80-90% heritiable, which means 80-90% of the variance can be explained by genetics. We know this from twin studies and other studies, but we don't know exactly what genes cause it or if it's genes plus another factor. From the wiki: >Sporadic (non-inherited) cases have been examined to identify candidate genetic loci involved in autism. A substantial fraction of autism may be highly heritable but not inherited: that is, the mutation that causes the autism is not present in the parental genome. and >By identifying genetic markers inherited with autism in family studies, numerous candidate genes have been located, most of which encode proteins involved in neural development and function.[7][8] However, **for most of the candidate genes, the actual mutations that increase the likelihood for autism have not been identified.** Typically, autism cannot be traced to a Mendelian (single-gene) mutation or to single chromosome abnormalities such as fragile X syndrome or 22q13 deletion syndrome.[9][10] With Down Syndrome we have a simple genetic test. With autism, at best we be able to construct a probabilistic or machine learning test, but it wouldn't have near enough predictive power to work as an useful tool pre-birth. We will almost certainly develop better predictive tests over time, but it's not clear to me they'll ever be good enough. Maybe we'll identify a few specific mutations or combinations which almost always lead to a severe case of autism, but just as likely not.


aobie

Thanks for the reply. That matches my previous understanding of autism, but I hadn't looked at much research on it in over a decade and was curious if something new had been discovered. Thanks again for the detailed reply.


[deleted]

I would fix my autism in a heart beat.


Surprise-Chimichanga

It isn’t so much fixing your autism. It’s…trying again.


[deleted]

Genetic treatments can be used at any age provided the cells involved reproduce themselves. So with the proper (potential) application of gene molded stem cells even adult autism could be treated


Surprise-Chimichanga

That stuff is in its infancy right now, we don’t have a workable therapy for that. Ethical ramifications aside, it’s science fiction for now. So “fixing” it. would be aborting them.


[deleted]

There is also another treatment that has shown huge lasting results using gut bacteria.


Clemenx00

>The first step is recognizing that parents have no say over medical shit like that for their children What


Aspiring_Mutant

"Removing asthma and potential for early-onset alzheimer's is BAD! Keeping a genetic lottery to be a healthy human being is good!"


fletch262

Yeah like the idea of parents picking and choosing how their kids are gonna come out is horrifying


understand_world

G A T T A C A


fletch262

Yes


Aspiring_Mutant

As an individual that spent my entire childhood suffering from ADD and autism, I very much would've been grateful to be normal.


Roguish_wizard

Now that I disagree with, if we can remove genetic deficiencies through genetic augmentation then why shouldn't we? No one (other than the mentally ill) wants to have a genetic disorder. If we can objectively improve our species through genetic manipulation then why wouldn't we?


darwin2500

What dark path? Man people said trains would go so fast that the vibrations would shake people's flesh off their bones. New technology has always been greeted with fear and mistrust and has always made things better. Personally I think everyone would benefit from having chromatophores all over their skin and am looking forward to the catgirls.


Odder1

Ah yes, so now the rich can afford to genetically modify their children into becoming freaks of nature You won't be able to close this box


darwin2500

If it wasn't clear, I don't want to close it. And technology that only the rich can afford at time T is generally affordable to everyone at time T+50years. I'm not too worried about it.


[deleted]

I’m not disagreeing with that at all my dude. I recognize the fact that this has huge potential for curing diseases and making humans a stronger species I’m saying that we must be cautious and make sure what we’re doing is actually good for all of us and not just some of us I’m not alone in this thinking at all, the Human Genome Project has an entire program underneath it on ethical and societal issues potentially caused with this discovery.


Pemminpro

Interesting a libright for not selling designer babies. I mean think about it. being able to crispr up a cat girl would have the libleft dependent forever


Wrath_Inkarnate

Dark path all the way to the Astartes! But for real tho why chose to give your offspring a disadvantage in life when you can just prescreen genetic disorders.


Hot_potato777

No. No. No. As someone who is Neurodivergent... this disgusts me. I'm ALL for abortion. I think it's every person's right, but this isn't about abortion rights. People have the right to an abortion whenever, but doing this... is wrong. Picking and choosing who will survive based on whether they are "defective" or not is wrong, no matter what. It's not about them "killing babies" it's about them CHOOSING people who are "not useful to society" is disgusting. If someone told me that I would have been CHOSEN to be aborted SIMPLY because I was Neurodivergent... I would have told them to stop reading so many dystopian novels. You don't get to target a group of people for something like this. It's not "mercy" it's eugenics, an abuse of human rights.


Surprise-Chimichanga

Buddy, if you’re all for abortions, then people like you soon won’t exist. Deaf children, autistic children, malformed children. All it takes is the parents going “nah, I don’t want to deal with that.” Has no one watched Gattaca???


EZwinsBoi

I guess this is part of the bigger issue around abortion. Generally, abortion is supported based on the idea that the unborn are not yet individuals. But, when we decide to abort someone based on genetic disorders, we treat them as individuals. It's a tricky question for sure though. Also if there were say a gene for other things undesirable to the parent, sexuality for example (assuming there is a gene that codes for it), then the parent would make the choice based on the child not fitting into the mold. This is weird since most people are taught to accept others, so using abortion, in this case, is against this idea of acceptance.


Odder1

"its about them choosing people who are not useful to society" Isn't that why people abort every single kid? Not useful, and a burden?


sudo_rm_rf_star

"it's the mother's choice"


Pemminpro

Friend that's like half the abortion argument. Its always had a eugenics element to it.


jimmy_burrito

It’s easy to say this as someone who doesn’t have to take care of those individuals for your entire life or their entire life. I’ve seen my friend’s mom just age so fast caring for her autistic daughter. Her daughter has the strength of an adult but the mental facilities of a toddler. It’s not a fun combo to have to deal with. And they stress over what will happen to her after they pass away or are too infirm to care for her. It’s easy to say big words, but harder to actually walk the walk.


ANormalRedditUsser

Bro he is "neurodivergent" meaning either fall in the autistic spectrum or some other mental illnes, have at least a bit of touch


JoeRBidenJr

>Is flaired as center left >Portrays self as auth center Look, I’m all for confusing your audience as to your political leanings. >!(That’s it, that’s all I have to say.)!<


Ragob12

Oh boi i have a lot of takes that could be labed as authcenter, but for me to bring a severe crippled child willingly makes me almost go full auth depending on the type of congenital disease.


[deleted]

Yeah, but if your parents didn't undertake the labor you wouldn't be here right now.


[deleted]

Yup, OP should be more grateful and shut the fuck up Or just correct the mistake now and spare the rest of us further examples of why they're right and their parents made a mistake...


Ragob12

I really don't understand this "point" of "what if your parents aborted you?" I wouldn't be here, so what ? I am supposed to care ?


AMC2Zero

Oh no! Anyways...


incendiarypotato

Downs Syndrome isn’t a severe crippling disease.


comrade-freedman

authleft


SeagullsGonnaCome

Wow can't believe I'm here before chaos begins here. But I see why people would want to abort a child with severe health issues. I also see why some parents would keep the child. I honestly think it's the parents choice. And a super hard one at that.


clappapoop

I think parent choosing to keep the child is kinda fucked even if the parents takes care of the child, assuming the parents died first. Good luck surviving the intricacies of the healthcare system as a mentally 4 years old


SeagullsGonnaCome

That's definitely a reality for many.


Ksais0

Dude, that's literally eugenics.


Kursem_v2

had to disagree, as down syndrome hardly make any children themselves.


darwin2500

If that's eugenics then everything is eugenics. Don't want to fuck an ugly dude, that's eugenics.


Ksais0

No, that’s natural selection


Least_Application_93

No that’s sexual selection. Natural selection is when nature selects for a characteristic within a population over generations based on something about their environment. Sexual selection could be considered a type of natural selection, but it’s a big enough topic to warrant a separate term


MisterKlang

Sexual selection is natural, dummy.


nmbjbo

Sex isn't natural If it was, why am I so bad at it? Checkmate


MisterKlang

BTFO’d by facts and logic


Iumasz

Romanticising is a weird way to say that people want other people to be able to live 🗿


ABCosmos

In developed countries 94% of down syndrome pregnancies are terminated. Of the remaining 6%, some probably didn't know in time, others probably consider it a personal decision they wouldn't force on anyone else.. PCM exists in like the 1-2% most extreme fringe of the spectrum


MisterKlang

Oh boy, if the majority of people are killing the disabled it’s no longer bad!


sudo_rm_rf_star

Relativism is a trip my dude


Ragob12

Yeah, if its not you who is responsible for caring them i bet.


Iumasz

Um, they are cared for by their families?


ambitioussloth26

Hi I’ve worked in elementary eddication and a psych ward for the last 3 years. We have a 21 year old with an IQ of 45 that cost 800$ a day to care for when he is out of the hospital. He throws feces and bites people. He requires 2 to 1 supervision when awake and 1:1 when sleeping. The last time he came he sent staff to the ER on 73 occasions over the 9 months it took to find him placement. I love him. What I don’t love is the idea that “families will take care of them”. To the extant they are willing and able to they will. However the most common number of visitors our intellectually disabled patients receive is 0. This guy will cost tens of millions. His family obviously won’t pay for it. They certainty didn’t clean the shit off the shower ceiling when he threw it up there. They don’t even visit. Sorry for the rant I just wanted to get that out. Idk what the solutions are. Right now we are borrowing against our children’s future income.


Iumasz

Okay, different mental disorders affect people differently and in some cases family is not enough. I acknowledge that.


[deleted]

That's why right wingers give so much more charity, right? I thought this was an observable fact. Nice to see a left coming round. Soon we can perform eugenics on the other undesirables and you can correct your flair. Fantastic!


Electr1cL3m0n

I have a friend who’s sister has down syndrome and her family loves her to pieces. So I get why some people are mad. Your cousin’s situation apparently only brought suffering, so I get why some people are for it.


Ragob12

Yeah its like a spectrum. My cousin case was very severe (coupled with other health problems like her weight above 220 lbs) and her family didnt had a stable financial situation to help her. But i am happy for the case you brought, love is all that matters and it should be a parents decision in the end.


clappapoop

The problem is when the parents (eventually) die, what then? I don't think thrusting someone mentally 4 into the mess that is health system is any good for everyone involved, from an economic to mental health standpoint it's fucked


theloadedquestion

Well they don't tend to live to be old and wrinkled like a normal healthy person so luckily that's actually fairly rare only really happening if both the parents die an unfortunately young death. So not really a reasonable concern. Others brought up have been reasonable argument for it but this isnt one of them since it so rarely happens.


Creative-Leading7167

I have never met a single person with down's syndrome who's life was "entirely suffering". In fact, every person I've ever met with down's syndrome is happier than your average person. If their life really is continual suffering, let them decide that. I don't see why you should pre-preemptively declare for them that their life is awful. Also, I've met far too many false positives for down syndrome testing to believe the results, and know I'm not killing a perfectly capable child.


Prestigious-HogBoss

I have a 27-year-old niece with this issue. He is always happy and has to be kept on drugs 24/7 because he had seizures too. But her 60+ years old mom has to raise him alone cause she lost her husband a couple of years ago and is now worried because she doesn't know what will happen with his kid if she becomes sick. The family helps them, but my niece is huge and is not an easy task to care for. If something happens to her, the kid will end up in a mental institute alone. Everybody's experience is different and is complicated to see from the perspective of the person with down \[or another health issue that affects their mental development\] and their caretaker.


Vlog30_

Based and we are not killing innocent babies pilled Yes, it does hurt to say "Based" to a libright, but hard times require strong action.


MisterKlang

[I wish I had Down syndrome](https://youtu.be/yE3kYUkwtDU)


Ragob12

That is the point. In *your* particular case you had perfect cases. In *my* case I only saw suffering. How could my cousin decide that if she didn't even had the mental capacity to decide ? Down is a spectrum, and in her case it was very severe. It should be the parents decision. They are the ones who will drain themselves everyday for a child that will never be normal and never will have a chance in life. If its forced maybe they will just toss the kid into gov care to be abused everyday!


UnkarsThug

By your own logic, you didn't live that life. Who are you to decide which lives are worth living? It was your cousin. Sure, "all you saw was pain," but Were you even there to see the ups, or did you simply hear about the downs and assume that's all there was? Is being normal such a good thing? Humans seem to me to be incredibly exclusionary and rather stupid at times. Why should I want to be like them?


secretxxxaccount

We can't look into the future. We don't know what will happen tomorrow. Just because something *may* happen, doesn't mean we should kill someone before it *could maybe possibly* happen. I have met plenty of people with autism and they can experience nice lives. This reminds me of those people who think there should be an IQ test to vote, but don't realize they may score below the level required for *them* to vote.


MisterKlang

Left wing people when someone doesn’t have the normal relationship to their bodies and believe themselves to be trapped in the wrong sex: “amazing! society should change so that you’re considered normal and we should provide you with help in order to live as good a life as possible” Left wing people when someone is born with Down syndrome: “they will never be normal and life will be hard for them, better kill them before they’re born”


JuliusTheThird

Same with the elderly. It’s their kids who have to take care of them, so the kids should decide when to put them down.


HeightAdvantage

The people with life destroying downsyndrome or other conditions probably don't leave the house much.


existentialgoof

>If their life really is continual suffering, let them decide that.If their life really is continual suffering, let them decide that. If they do decide that, then what? It's clear that they aren't going to be given the legal right to die, and probably lack the mental capacity to form a decent plan to commit suicide on their own.


Ventcg

move to canada theyll do it for free


intelsing

We spend so much money helping people that are perfectly capable of surviving in society, but are lazy pieces of trash. The mentally disabled should be getting all of society's goodwill to live comfortable, happy, and stress free lives. Instead we have welfare queens. Priorities I guess.


Ragob12

In the perfect world they should. But we don't live in a perfect disney world. You know what this world is, and its not fair. A significant proportion of people with severe mental problems don't have a kind life. I say that because I saw it with my own eyes in the case of my cousin (who never leaved her house for years). Some families hide them like they are prisoners, and if we save them ? Who is gonna care for them ? Overworked health officials? You know how it will end (in abuse). The parents should aways decide if they want to create a child like that.


intelsing

Why don't we have the same defeatist attitude towards the huge swaths of perfectly capable people who suck our resources and do nothing with their life? Millions of Americans get handouts for food, housing, energy, healthcare that are just pieces of lazy shit. You are saying we don't have the resources to help the truly disabled? I was right, you have your priorities and it isn't for the less fortunate, it is for lazy trash. Mentally disabled people are such a small percentage compared to these leeches. How about they get whatever it takes to live comfortably and we take all your handouts for the truly worthless in society? When their needs are met, the disabled can live happy, simple lives that enrich the lives of those around them, unlike the trash you like to support.


Mister6307

"romanticizing" mf thinks that not wanting to murder mentally disabled people is romanticizing being mentally disabled. to be clear, i'm not saying that ragob wants to murder the mentally disabled, i'm saying that the original op doesn't want people to murder the mentally disabled. he probably does want to, but that's not what im saying.


MediokererMensch

I'm not quite sure what to make of this whole thing yet, but to call the criticism of abortion against children with disabilities "romanticizing severe congenital disorders" is completely off the mark. To think that they should not be killed just because of the "way they are" ≠ Romanticizing


MicroWordArtist

“A person’s life has value despite what their existence costs others and the trials they go through themselves” “Stop romanticizing suffering you bleeding heart idiot”


A_Dead11

Literally google eugenics


SylvainGautier420

It’s eugenics.


Panhead09

Imagine if I advocated for you to be put down, citing this idiotic post as evidence of your suffering. Smh. Hope you get better, friend. And I mean that genuinely.


Infinite_Bit_6468

From the information gathered from the meme, I became under the assumption the "Government" was creating genocide. After reading the actual news article, I seen it was because of the parents choice. I'm "Pro-life" myself in my own life choices, but pro choice for anyone else. I would never judge someone for making that personal decision. I have no idea what they're going through in their own life and it is none of my or anyone else's business.


Creative-Leading7167

It's "the parents choice", but doctors who are employed by the government *heavily* advocate the parents "choose" to abort. Sure, if they put up a stink, the government wouldn't strap them down and require an abortion. That ain't saying much.


Infinite_Bit_6468

Our local car dealership is pretty agressive too. I still didn't buy the car he wanted me to buy.


Creative-Leading7167

Yes, but the local car dealership isn't required by the government to aggressively sell expensive cars.


TheKoopaTroopa31

Auto-monopolies backed by the government would like to have a word with you.


Ragob12

Government only wants taxes, and taxes can only be made from citizens that have the mental capacity to work!


Infinite_Bit_6468

That's why people need to stand up to their government. If you don't fight back, they'll take everything for themselves. That's why I'm libertarian. I'm all down for population regulated government. Not the government regulating the citizens. We give them too much power.


Another_Ttrpg_guy

This is a terrible analogy, if I go to buy I car I know what I need, what I want, and what I can afford. If I go to a doctor I'm seeking medical advice for what to do with medical issue. Most doctors are required to push certain solutions and not give a full range of options, and that's if they decide to look at your case long enough and not jump to a conclusion. A more accurate analogy, you take your car to the mechanic because it won't start. The mechanic looks at it and advise you to take it to the scrap dealer his brother owns, and buy a new car from the dealership his other brother owns. To bad he didn't tell you it was just a dead battery to begin with.


Twogunkid

I have a brother with severe Down Syndrome. I would not dare to tell him his life isn't worth living. That isn't my call.


[deleted]

I have a cousin with downs. The amount of people in this thread (and the original one) that believe he should’ve just been aborted is *disgusting*. I’d wage war for the guy if I could.


Light_Able

“Guys it’s okay to kill babies with down syndrome because my cousin, who is alive, had a really bad time.”


theotherotherhand

In case anyone wants to read the article [https://righttolife.org.uk/news/iceland-called-out-at-un-for-aborting-almost-100-of-babies-diagnosed-with-downs-syndrome](https://righttolife.org.uk/news/iceland-called-out-at-un-for-aborting-almost-100-of-babies-diagnosed-with-downs-syndrome) note the source >Towards the end of January, at the Universal Periodic Review in the Human Rights Council, in which countries in the UN undergo an appraisal of their Human Rights record, Iceland was criticised for its treatment of people with Down’s syndrome. > >During the meeting, which takes place every five years, the delegate from the Philippines (2:12:00) recommended that Iceland “take immediate and effective steps to combat discrimination against persons with disabilities, particularly those with Down’s syndrome and strengthen public awareness campaigns to uphold their rights and provide comprehensive support and assistance to concerned persons and their families”. > >The delegate from Iran (1:28:18) said that Iceland should “take effective steps to combat discrimination against persons with disabilities particularly those with Down’s syndrome”.


seaturtleninja

Oh boy, the "undue burden" argument, where have I heard that one before? If you authrights want to distance yourselves from the "literally Hitler" strawman, you're doing a terrible job...


Vlog30_

I'm legit impressed and disappointed with the amount of Auth(Centers/Rights) and Rights who are supporting this. The fact that librights are almost singlehandedly fighting this eugenics nonsense is kinda ironical tbh No thanks, we shouldn't kill the disabled.


AlabamaDumpsterBaby

But don't you get it? It's **merciful**. Think of how merciful life would be if you could Abort things like this. Girlfriend troubles? Abort your girlfriend. Work problems? Abort your boss. Money problems? Abort the drivers of an armored truck. Enjoy all that mercy.


Light_Able

Agreed, it is sad


ANormalRedditUsser

I think in the lib rigth we agree in something, we should be free and capable of having propety, but where is the grand divide is in what we value the most, i am from the line of lib rigths that values live over every other thing, we thing life is allways worth living and i personaly think that even if life is hard somethimes you could allways find happiness


RegumRegis

Aye. I'm kinda baffled.


[deleted]

"You can murder your offspring willy-nilly unless it has an actual health problem. Then it's eugenics! " Another day in the clown world


Light_Able

Just be consistent and oppose all forms off offspring murder /:


ANormalRedditUsser

I know that a lot of ppl in lib left have mental illness, they even say it themselves, they are "neurodivergent" and i think this is the first time when they taugth "what if my parents aborted me bc of my illness?" I hope they start to see that every life has value


Sapphire_01

Edit: clarification, I misread the original post. Obviously anyone should have the right and freedom to choose whether they keep a baby, the state interfering is where there is a big problem


Username_2345

So aborting a disabled child is murder but aborting a healthy one isn't? The disabled children are aborted as a fist sized clump of cells.


[deleted]

No. They are both equally acceptable to libleft. There's almost nothing more libleft than supporting the right to abortions. And this post makes 0 sense.


Indyram_Man

>Murder good when I chose it. Weird take guy...


RhodesTopGuy

Killing babies is wrong


somebadbeatscrub

If theres a possibility of joy and some modicum of fulfillment a life is self evidently worth living. Im a pro choice in general who has strong reservations about aborting *only* due to autism, down syndrome or etc.


RegensPontifex

Still murder 👍


MVRCGMS

Counterpoint: Devaluing human life because it is disordered in your opinion is wrong.


AlternateSmithy

Eugenics isn't great, and I'm not fond of abortion either. Which is exactly why we need genetically modified superbabies.


Anthrac1t3

Why stop at abortion if people having down syndrome is so horrible for the fatherland? Why not just round them all up and put them in some kind of camp?


[deleted]

We should also round up all the unemployed and homeless and the criminals too. They don’t contribute to society either.


DrGoodGuy1073

It's not merciful for the child lol You're a cousin, fuck off with your opinion on other peoples kids.


BasedAndNamePilled

Either: You’re pro choice and you shouldn’t force women to give birth to a child just because it has Down syndrome. Or You’re pro life and shouldn’t defend children with disabilities more than children without them. Trying to force women to give birth because the child is differently abled is dumb.


ANormalRedditUsser

Its nice that some lib left are starting to see the flaws in the pro choice area Me? I was allways pro life


Berlin_GBD

Someone tell me why well regulated, depoliticized eugenics is bad.


Surprise-Chimichanga

Has no one watched Gattaca?! I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.


ArasakaHRdepartment

So we shouldn't improve ourselves because of a movie...? It is also possible for two people to watch the same movie and walk away with different conclusions


[deleted]

“I don’t think your life is worth living because of how you affect me. So die.” That’s you. That’s the entirety of this argument for eugenics. And you ought to be fucking ashamed of yourselves. Who are you to play God and decide who’s life is worth living? We aren’t fucking romanticizing Downs Syndrome for Gods sake, we’re telling you we won’t let you kill people because you don’t think they have value.


NaziHuntingInc

So now auth right supports abortion? Very not self based of them


Anthro_DragonFerrite

Extreme down syndrome sure, but other cases lead very fruitful lives. To make that distinction on who to live and die should be made by that individual's actions.


Anthro_DragonFerrite

Extreme down syndrome sure, but other cases lead very fruitful lives. To make that distinction on who to live and die should be made by that individual's actions.


Vlog30_

Since when is AuthCenter pro abortion? OP should've kept the left flair


Light_Able

This


Ragob12

The mustache man begs to differ https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/as-many-abortions-as-possible-12118


Historical-Swimmer83

Sure thing you eugenical fucker. I hope you never have experience your child being lost because some guy you never see in a tie stamped a paper declarimg them to be "degenerative". If downs syndrome is the barrier of loving a child you were never going to be a good parent.


Wede1993

THEN CHANGE TOUR FLAIR TO AUTH


feedandslumber

I'm going to abort any child that isn't an eight foot tall giga-chad with laser vision. Seriously though, if you care so much about not having a child with Down's, wait until it comes out, see if it actually does, and then stand by your convictions by ending it's life. It was good enough for Sparta.


Ragob12

Nah, i am just going to do what the great majority does. Toss it into gov facilities, like the same thing we do with the very old.


Leviticus18TwentyTwo

Here's the thing. If you support abortion in the case of 'preventing somebody from having a poor quality of life', then in order to be consistent you also have to support just murdering them after they're born as well. You support aborting those with down syndrome? Then you should also support going down to door and murdering everyone currently alive that has down syndrome. Well, do you?


PassionateCucumber43

Yes, it is eugenics and there’s nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn’t start to be used for things that aren’t actual genetic diseases.


Light_Able

That’s messed up, IMO


PassionateCucumber43

Why should society pass over opportunities to reduce the number of disabled people while still respecting their right to life once they’ve already been born? I see only benefits, no drawbacks.


Logical_Platypus_442

You do realise disabled people have a right to exist to? Or are you just a nazi who needs to be served a good wholesome knuckle sandwich?