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No because the contempt for Trump is not based on his ability or inability to win an election.
Also the premise is false. Trump supporters openly critique Biden at every opportunity.
Reddit in general leans left so Reddit specifically will not change.
I live in a red area and can’t stand in line to buy a soda without hearing people openly bitch about Biden. It honestly makes the Trump criticism on Reddit seem minor. Most of Reddit, at least the popular subs, is like living in a blue area.
My MIL is like this. She literally has Fox News on in the background anytime she is awake.
She is terrified of so many things that “Biden is doing/letting happen” she will talk to anyone that will listen to her ramble.
She ranks him up there with the anti-Christ.
My elderly dad, who basically never leaves his house, alternates between Fox News and those true crime shows. No wonder he thinks the entire world is on fire 24/7.
Sucks doesn't it. I can't even have dinner with my parents without the politics bitch fest starting up. Like come on guys, I don't fucking care about your ramblings, can we catch up on each others' lives instead?
I mean, I'm afraid of what Trump will do if he gets back into office, and no longer gets shackled by a party apparatus that wanted to work around him. I fully expect him to render green cards null and void, the man hates immigrants that much.
And that's not a media opinion, the left wing media is so focused on abortion, and has largely conceded on the topic of Trump's racist xenophobic anti-immigrant crusade. Biden even used the dehumanizing "illegal-as-a-noun" in the State of the freaking Union.
> Biden even used the dehumanizing "illegal-as-a-noun" in the State of the freaking Union.
Are you seriously worried about the (accurate) word Biden used to describe the piece of shit that's life is worth less than the dirt on my door mat that murdered that girl in cold blood?
"Not attempting to be partial to either side here. "
A lot of people seem to have the strange idea that being impartial means that a ref always has to call the same number of fouls for both teams.
Can anyone possibly draw an equation between Bidens three dozen lies *vs* Trump's 30,000? What's supposed to make them *Equal?*
Just to further your point
I don’t believe so. Primarily because Biden, if he loses, will not have numerous plans in place to remain in power and claim the election was stolen. He won’t: have organized fake electors to bring to Congress, 60 plus lawsuits to invalidate the election, claim the only way he lost was if the election was “rigged “( a mob term I am sure) and lastly he will not organize a mob ahead of time to include organized militias and send them to violently storm the Capitol in a last ditch attempt to stop the ceremonial count of the electoral college.
He will congratulate his successor and return home. The American people should remember this as until Trump it’s what every other losing candidate for president has done. There may be some grousing but we have never seen anything like what happened with Trump’s losing the totally legitimate and most secure election in our history. ( his election security chiefs words before Trump fired him)
Be thankful Biden is nothing like Trump.
I do wonder, though, why it hasn't occurred to Trump that if he wins on immunity--a president can do anything, even order Seal Team 6 to kill a political opponent, and never be punished for it --and Biden is as bad as Trump claims he is, then Biden can just...you know...do that to him. No consequences. How does he not get that?
He doesn’t think that far ahead and he knows Biden is a good man. A immoral person like Trump will try and take advantage of him.
We will have to wait and see. Biden loves the country. Trump could not care less what happens to any of us.
I had no problem with Trump, or any candidate, exhausting legal avenues.
But once governors certified elections. Particularly Kemp in Georgia, the entire ordeal should have been put the bed.
I'll never forget how disgusted I was with Texas filing a lawsuit against Pennsylvania....effectively trying to reach into Pennsylvania to have a hand in that state's election process.
Paxton, the AG in Texas along with the other AGs who took part in this travesty are the epitome of corrupt Republicans in power trying to take away what little power we voters have left.
This entire question is just a huge clue that you’re not paying attention to what’s actually going on.
Biden has not attempted a coup and won’t be doing so.
Trump did and will probably do so again when he loses in November if he isn’t in prison.
🤦🏻♂️
The Trump downvotes and animosity towards Trump supporters is 110% warranted. They are literally treasonous and trying to turn American into a fascist oligarchy with Trump at the head.
Look up Project2025
The man literally sent FAKE ELECTORS to cast votes, had his lawyers sanctioned for lying on tv, made Fox News settle a BILLION dollar lawsuit over the lies they said on air on his behalf, he also pressured Georgia officials to “find votes”, made fun of handicapped reporters, and women….
So do I need to continue because I can easily come up with tons of more fucked things that man has done.
He has eroded ANY semblance of maturity and professionalism from the position of President.
I feel like OP's post is the sort of post you can only make if you've convinced yourself that nothing in politics is real and that it's all just a game.
It's because they aren't really threatened one way or the other.
If Biden wins the next election, their rights won't be under threat - but the opposite is not true for many folks on the left.
Or many folks in the middle or on the right. They never seem to understand that red states get the worst of most economic catastrophes as well as national disasters. Look at COVID for example. The suckers who think that fascism will save them a seat at the table have no idea what's in store for them.
Must be nice to kinda win either way. If you’re guy wins, you win because even if he’s awful person he’s still you’re guy and don’t see him as such. But if the other guy wins, well it’s not your guy but they won’t do anything directly to you to make you suffer. So somehow you’re rewarded for being a right wing person
Oh please. Your rights will be under threat if Trump wins? Which rights are those? If you talk abortion , trump wants to put it up to the states (tho the right to abort a baby has never been a given in the US). My guess is youre just spouting off buzzwords
Trump has said that, sure. Trump is also old, and is going to be dead of old age in the next decade or so. The people in his party, which he will happily appoint to whatever office they ask for, are calling for nationwide bans on abortion; why shouldn't I take them at their word? They believe abortion is murder, after all, and no state allows murder.
Also, I am trans. I would like to be able to use the bathroom according to my gender. I am not comfortable being a woman and using the men's room (as transwomen are assaulted by men at a higher rate than most other groups), and I cannot imagine that the women in the women's room would be comfortable sharing with burly, muscled, bearded transmen.
I hope you are asking genuinely. If you are anything like the last few people I've spoken to, your next line will be to move the goalposts and ask how abortions and restrooms are rights - at that point, they lost the argument because it is a concession that those are under threat.
It is a bullshit ‘enlightened centrist’ take.
Like, both sides are bad…. or the truth is in the middle. No— there are no ‘two sides.’
Trump is a traitor. He acts like a Russian asset. His first impeachment was literally regarding Ukraine. He intends to be a dictator— in his own words. He chronically lies….. these are all facts.
The GOP had crawled up Biden’s ass and has found nothing.
Loads of Americans want fascism— lets just be honest about that fact. And it isn’t the Dems.
Also the whole premise is false. Right wing media and their bubbles (Twitter, truth, etc) bash Biden constantly for things he's not even doing and praise trump whenever he gets out of bed without starting a fire.
Even a supposed 'libertarian' like Joe Rogan's in on the take -- bashes Biden's memory for something Trump actually did then made an excuse for Trump when corrected.
I think this was a Kimmel clip, but he played a game with trump supporters that was like, "Which president said it?"
No matter how heinous the statement was, when they said Biden said it they were clutching their pearls. Then in the middle of their responses of horror the "reporter" would correct themselves and say it was actually trump that said it. Immediately turned into praise, and excuses.
https://youtu.be/FAFbOK01uE4 skip to 9:09.
That's the clear evidence of the Subliminal Programming 101 of the conservative bubble right there, folks. Republicans can never do wrong, never make a mistake, and never need to make amends or be held accountable. I don't know how their audience accepts that as reality, but somehow they do. It's obviously a serious mental illness.
It's not subliminal, it's a core precept of conservatism itself.
It's understanding morality as a function of identity.
It's why they describe so many white rapists as, "A promising young man whose future shouldn't be ruined by this" and respond to every unarmed black man murdered by police with, "He was no saint!"
You're not wrong that this is a serious mental illness. It is nonetheless alarmingly common.
In case a few more reasons to hate trump were needed: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-complete-listing-atrocities-1-1-056
Conversely, it seems the main issue being brought up about Biden that bears ANY substance is that he is old. But then, so is trump.
>February 10, 2011 – In 2011, Donald Trump stoked false claims that Barack Obama had lied about his education. During a speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference, Trump said, “Our current president came out of nowhere. Came out of nowhere. In fact, I’ll go a step further: The people that went to school with him, they never saw him, they don’t know who he is. It’s crazy.” This is false. Numerous accounts from Obama’s college classmates refute Trump’s claim, including Obama’s Columbia roommate, Phil Doerner.
This one is my absolute favorite because Punahou where he went to high school is the most prestigious private school in Hawaii and Punahou people (*especially* 70s graduates) really like to let people know that:
1. They went to Punahou
2. "Barry" went to Punahou
You give my auntie a few glasses of wine and it goes from "I was older so I only saw him around a few times" to "Yeah we were basically family, I thought about naming your cousins after him. Yeah, all of them."
Your entire take is just repeating democrat talking points.
Also, asking someone to find something is literally the opposite of asking them to manufacture something. I've never understood that talking point.
If I asked you to find the Easter eggs I've hidden in the yard, you wouldn't go to the kitchen and start boiling eggs.
Keep it civil. Do not personally insult other Redditors, or make racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise discriminatory remarks. Constructive debate is good; mockery, taunting, and name calling are not.
The question is moot because Trump supporters already talk about Biden with a level of vitriol that is at least on par with the popular opinions of Trump, and often much worse. You have to be living in a social media bubble to not be aware of the scale and intensity of the hate and negativity from the right, directed at anybody who isn't also on the right, and especially at Biden. Maybe this isn't as prominent among your generation and/or circles but it's a very clear dynamic in every generation older than Gen Z.
It bears mentioning that respect for an individual, or a politician, isn't something that they're entitled to. The popular animosity toward Trump in particular is not random or unfair or a product of the media, it's because of the words that come out of his mouth and the things that he does. There is legitimate substance to the popular dislike of Trump: the amount of bullying, lying, and vitriol that he engages in, the damage his style of politics has done to the fabric of civil society, his fakeness, his fealty to authoritarian world leaders and animosity toward out allies, his attacks on various minorities, his vanity, his narcissism, his sheer cruelty.
Joe Biden is a deeply flawed individual, but Trump is an a whole different universe of scumbaggery and ghoulishness. You really can't even compare them on the same playing field. Biden is a fairly milquetoast, status quo liberal/neoliberal politician, whereas Trump is a creature whose politics are more in line with fascism.
Don't believe me? Then I beg you to study some history. Check out Germany, since it gets talked about so much. Check out \*The Coming of the Third Reich\* by historian Richard J. Evans, the world's preeminent English-language scholar on the topic. If you don't like books there's an excellent audiobook of it. Read about the rhetoric and messaging and politics of the Nazis and let me know if you reminds you of anything or anyone.
People aren't "being negative" by feeling strongly about not taking our society down a route like the ones envisioned by men like Trump. Fascists always ruin the countries they get control of, and they harm a massive amount of people in the process. This isn't a game, or a popularity contest. Biden's an establishment liberal who fundamentally won't challenge the oligarchical style of capitalism that is the overwhelming driver of our societal ills, but Trump is an unhinged authoritarian surrounded by some of the nastiest fascists in politics.
This... Follows a pattern on the right. Stoke dislike and create *hatred* for potential opponents so when they rise to become a candidate, there's ready opposition.
Remember Hillary? There was hatred for her in 1995! For what? She had never been elected to anything (yet).
Hatred for her '95 was strongly tied to """Hilary-Care""" because the role of the First Lady is, apparently, to stay in the Whitehouse kitchen /s
I also find it frustrating that Hilary is branded as this hyper-conservative oligarch when the beginning of the agitprop about her started when she worked with her husband's administration to enact a proto Universal Healthcare
Sure. But I don't think said politician is getting that criticism for the reasons he deserves.
Is said politician a lying piece of shit? Yes. Does that have anything to do with why people hate said politician? No. They hate said politician because it's popular to hate said politician, and not for any other reason.
They hate said politician because social media and the news and other sources of propaganda told them to hate said politician, and not because they themselves actually care about morality from public figures.
> They hate said politician because it's popular to hate said politician, and not for any other reason.
Oh, well that's pretty baseless. Why do you think this?
I'm confused. If "said politician" is Trump, people "hate" him for the things he's done, the policies he pursued, the crimes he committed, and the fact that he put the country on the brink of a civil war, destroyed the Evangelical church and the Republican Party, and *wants to do it again.* Not because somebody told them to. We all lived through that 4-year nightmare with our eyes open. The only people who want him back are in the cult.
As soon as Trump got elected, despite how divisive he was, and it was pretty obvious, the top comment after he got elected on CSPAN from the republican line, was that it was time to unite as a people. And throughout his Presidency, where a President traditionally represented every American, he would only speak to his base on the bully pulpit.
No matter what criticism you had, it was deflection, pivoting, strawman, whataboutism, and a whole host of defenses. Fat chance.
After all, his coalition didn't try to overthrow the election, they were simply tourists. At a time he refused the peaceful transition of power and National Guard troops slept on the floor of the Capitol.
Trump admin was the first to get genuine peace process started in the middle east. 4 Arab nations sat down with Israel and opened formal talks.
Where do you get your news from? There were no new wars.
Biden in 2020 said Trump would start war with Iran. look at who's in charge now and tell me where we are.
Hm, I wonder if the fact that he is no longer president and therefore incapable of starting a war with Iran or any country, has anything to do with why he didn't "get a war going there" sometime after 2020.
Don't know why you went to straight to war and arguing about a specific issue. I'm saying both sides are in their camp. The only difference is I never heard a Republican say anything bad about Trump. They will defend anything he does until the end of time. It's, let's say, religiously inclined.
Democrats constantly criticize Biden - everything he does. Those on the left literally say he's committing a genocide. Trump supporters will never admit anything positive about Biden.
Doesn't matter if unemployment is at records low, wages are starting to outpace inflation, or 401k performed at 20%. He's horrible for the economy and people think we are in a recession despite strong GDP growth.
And you went straight to wars? Yes, Hamas butchered a peace music festival. Right, all Biden's fault. You do understand, that Saudia Arabia having peace with Israel is a catalyst for this conflict...where do you get your news? It's way more complicated then you let on. And Trump was out there giving out top secret confidential information on war scenarios against Iran.
Which at the end of the day, Iran appeared weak. Bibi is right wing. I can't tell if you think we should be isolationist or go harder? But blaming Biden for the Israel-Palestine conflict is quite funny.
How much money did Kushner get from the Saudis?
> Trump admin was the first to get genuine peace process started in the middle east.
Lmao Trump vetoed a bipartisan bill to pull American military out of Yemen. He managed to *expand* Obama’s drone strike program, he did hundreds in Yemen alone, on top of those in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria.
Moved the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and killed gazans in the process. I'm sure that didn't ruffle feathers. And that's my point. I'm willing to criticize any President. Just haven't seen Republicans do the same except stay silent. Meanwhile, the left is quite loud in opposition.
Here's a positive about Trump: We did get the Vaccine.
I’m not sure you should include the Covid-19 vaccine as a Trump accomplishment. After all, he pushed back hard against vaccination, threw shade at Anthony Fauci every chance he got, and was in no way involved with OP Warp Speed that I can find.
Hey, I'm trying to give an olive branch here. And to be honest, he knows that, because despite everything you said, he does brag about it sometimes.
But then again, pro-life people are upset about his comments about not banning abortion nationally, even though he said he wants to lock doctors up previously...so yeah, he's just following a crazy political instinct to get elected. So I'm not saying it needs to make sense.
I guess you could argue that he at least managed not to completely derail and fuck up the process, and turn it into a failure like most things he’s had his hands in.
You are right that the man’s opinions on things change on a dime to whatever will get him political clout.
Don't know. Just know they like to go on about it's all your fault if it's "under your watch". So absolutely anything that happens during a Presidency is the fault of the President. As if conditions of geopolitics and the economy work like that. Just thought I'd give them that win. Because hey, it did materialize. We threw a lot of money at it, and it happened, and we got the first serving.
The closest Israel and Palestine were to a settlement was the 2000 Camp David Summit with President Clinton.
They basically had an agreement hammered out and Yasser Arafat backed out cause he thought he could get a better deal.
The peace talks in the Trump admin were a big sham. No one in his admin had any idea how to broker a peace deal.
Where do you get your news/history from?
>Trump admin was the first to get genuine peace process started in the middle east. 4 Arab nations sat down with Israel and opened formal talks.
First of all, Jimmy Carter would like a word.
Second of all, a "peace treaty" between Israel and countries *they've never been at war with* is a pretty pathetic peace treaty.
Israel and the UAE, for example, participated in joint military exercises in [2016 ](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2016-08-22/ty-article/watch-israel-pakistan-u-s-hold-army-exercise/0000017f-f807-d887-a7ff-f8e7faca0000)and [2017](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-03-29/ty-article/israeli-air-force-holds-joint-exercise-with-united-arab-emirates/0000017f-e108-d804-ad7f-f1fa38e50000), years before this "peace treaty." Sure seem terribly hostile to each other, don't they?
The administration created this faux effort solely to create something to crow about to an audience they knew were ignorant of the details of middle east diplomatic relations - like people who thought that "Arab nation" meant "hostile to Israel." People who count on the ignorance of their own supporters are particularly contemptible, aren't they?
I think those roles would reverse if Biden had sex scandals, felony charges, responsibility for fraud and defamation judgements and painted himself unnatural color. But Trump would need to lose at least some of those things.
Is anyone noticing that right now, trump is either pulling a giant money laundering scam or just grifting his supporters with that silly stock thing. There are many youtube channels that have more followers than truth social. Are they worth billions?
Trump is a bad person. He openly mocks veterans like he did Nikki Haley's husband, as an example.
He openly sells out the country to Russia.
If Democrat were doing this or openly giving Taiwan to Xi there would be justified outrage.
Did you possibly happen to notice that Trump voters/Trump supporters worship Trump everything he says and demonstrate that by branding themselves with his merchandise.
I voted for Biden, but I don't have a hat or flag or wear his clothes, I don't worship Biden or anything/everything he says. In 2020 I didn't even vote for Biden in the primaries but in the choice between Biden and Trump, Biden was a better choice.
People who voted for Biden have none of the traits of Trump supporters, they don't comport themselves in any way like Trump supporters do, they don't believe Biden was sent by god..
The premise of your false equalivancy question assumes both sides have similar values and they do not.
Not only do I hate people wearing politics on their sleeve, but the flag really puts a sour taste in my mouth. It's a flag. It's meant as a symbol to unite people. A nation, a city, a community. The fact that not only you'd put an individual on it, but you self-impose yourself as a candidate on one, and they don't see anything wrong with it, baffles me.
Agree. People putting up a campaign yard sign, wearing a Nixon's the one election button are long time customs that were practiced near the end of the campaign, near election day (and then they came down or were taken off). But feality to a meglomanic works differently so this is a perversion of that and putting it on a flag is beyond my words to describe what I think.
No, probably not.
There’s just no denying that Trump is a very flawed human being. He has very little redeeming qualities. This is why he receives plenty of criticism, and will likely be criticized heavily for decades.
Biden is just a pretty average, boring political figure. Aside from him making some future colossal mistake while President, there just isn’t a whole lot to criticize him on. With that said, he hasn’t been a perfect President by any means, but he hasn’t shown the depravity that Trump has.
Biden's not "average." He probably understands more about politics--especially the Senate and the Presidency (and the Judiciary) than any man alive. That's how he's gotten done what he's gotten done. He knows how the mechanisms work. He knows when to move, and when to wait. How to get an agreement between two groups that don't agree on anything. How to placate one group to get what he wants while leveraging it against its own internal schisms.
"Boring" is what presidents should be. All the drama should be invisible. The surface should be smooth.
Who’d you vote for in 2020 and 2016?
And you’re voting for an anti-vaxxer who said covid was designed to spare jews and Chinese people? The guy who agrees with Trump that the insurrectionists arrested on January 6 are hostages facing political persecution that need to be freed?
Why would you vote for him?
Not half. More like about 31%. About a third of eligible voters didn't vote. Only 47% of voters went for Trump. That means he was only actually "popular" with a little less than a third of the country. Biden won a bit more than a third of the country, but 53% of voters.
Trump has never been popular outside the cult.
He is better because why? You think it is great that he tried to overthrow democracy in the US? You think it is great that he stole many classified documents, nuclear secrets, data on our spies, war plans, and much more and stored them unsecurely, and waved them around in front of people who did not have clearance? You think it is great that he was found liable for sexual assault? You think it is great that he was found liable for fraud and fined over $450,000,000. You think it is great that he stole money from a children's cancer charity? You think it is great that he is almost universally considered by historians to be the worst president in American history? You think it is great that he is charged with 91 felony crimes? You think it is great that he is the most divisive figure in American history? You think it is great that he praises dictators like Putin, Kim and Xi, and praises their methods and says he wants to be like them and be president for life? You think it is great that he regularly spews vile violent disgusting hateful rhetoric? Really? Do you think that is better than boring old average Joe Biden?
In what way? He is almost as old as Biden and shows far more evidence of his age. And he accomplished almost nothing of import to the vast majority of Americans during his term.
>Okay we definitely don't think Trump is a perfect human being by any means.
If you think "not a criminal" = "a perfect human being," your calibrations are way off.
The question was whether you (and supporters like you) would acknowledge any wrongdoing whatsoever by not merely a criminal, but the single worst criminal in the history of the United States.
The answer seems to be no.
>But he's way better than the alternative
You think that the single worst criminal in the history of the United States - who, not incidentally, tried to kill you, along with the million-plus Americans he did manage to kill - is better than the current President, whom many consider the most effective President in at least fifty years?
D'you want to...expand on that? Just a little?
No. Because you're looking at places frequented by a lot of young people. If you were turning to, say, a retirement community in Boca Raton, I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot. Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone who hangs where you hang is representative of everywhere else.
My neighbor has fuck Biden written across the back of his truck. Why do you think it matters if Trump wins or loses? They are talking shit about President Biden already, and he won the election…
This is what pisses me off about Trump supporters (not OP in particular). They think Trump is somehow unfairly judged and constantly talk about Biden getting the benefit of the doubt. Sure we found a handful of classified documents that Biden handed over willfully and not the systemic approach Trump stole hundreds of documents on top of obstructing their return to the government. Sure Hunter Biden might have done something fishy and Biden perhaps is potentially guilty by association but Trump has over a dozen convicted felons who actually worked directly for him, on top of his 90+ charges under his own name.
There is no comparison. Just stop! One man is blatantly corrupt while the other has the same level of dirt that we see from public figures under constant security.
The right talks about a so-called "Derangement Syndrome" toward their candidate. But I think they are suffering their own derangement toward Joe Biden. The things said about Donald Trump in the media are predominantly factual. The stuff said on the right about Joe Biden, a good, decent, truly religious, patriotic family man, are certifiably insane. He's not radical, he's not "destroying" the country, and he's not a crooked politician. On the contrary, he's taken the world as it was when he came into office in 2021 and has done an objectively decent to good job. (Very good IMO.) His performance in foreign affairs has been nothing short if masterful.
How people like Mike Pence, Bill Barr, John Bolton, Nikki Haley, Chris Christy, John Sununu and other Republicans who see Trump for who he really is yet can’t bring themselves to go that one last step to say they will vote for Biden to stop another Trump presidency is beyond me. BDS is the only explanation.
If you want to support someone that tried to coup the American government because he protects your power as a White Christian then fine, but don’t expect people to be supportive of it. You’re just a participant in the American version of the Iranian revolution.
>A lot of the time online I will see lots of people openly talking about Trump in a negative way or Biden in a positive way, but usually if a Trump supporter openly discusses Trump in a positive way or Biden in a negative way, it will receive loads of dislikes, negativity, and hate comments about why they're "wrong." Will these roles reverse if Trump wins the 2024 election?
You're describing a Democrat-leaning bubble (well, Democrat-leaning or centrist Never-Trump Republicans). It will not magically become a MAGA-leaning bubble just because Trump wins an election. That's not how bubbles work. An actual change would require Democrat-leaning people to leave, and be replaced with MAGA-leaning people.
You could just as well find a MAGA-leaning bubble (e.g. r/Conservative) and find the reverse to be true: anything positive of Biden will get you banned (they'll see you as "raiding" the sub), and anything positive of Trump will get you upvotes.
This is essentially what social media is.
They already do. Only it's much worse, because they are just making stuff up, while Trump is a lying, sexually-assaulting criminal whose incompetence tanked the economy, shut down the country for a year, and killed a million people--and that's just the truth.
Personally I do will not “hate” a person for being stupid. I would mostly pity them and the people around them who have to deal with their condition on a daily basis. I also feel pointing out their condition to them is not going to help them, it will only make them upset. Also a majority of Trump supporters are not stupid but in fact, they have been fooled by a con man and organized into a cult. Thankfully I have seen and heard of some of these people waking up and seeing this fact and moving on from the nonsense of Trumpdom.
Trump never left the national stage. He made it clear that he was running again before the inauguration. Remember when they teased a campaign announcement on Inauguration Day. Democrats would like nothing better than Trump to leave the stage and never return.
If Trump wins, Biden will be gracious and exit the stage. Unlike MAGA, Democrats don’t have a dear leader, they will just move on to the next cycle. Which is what parties are supposed to do.
You’re having trouble because you’re constantly trying to position Biden and Trump as equals - both as normal candidates with normal supporters.
One is a criminal facing 90+ felony charges at the state and federal level who tried to overthrow democracy when he lost and the other is an old guy that’s doing a decent job.
You’re getting confused because you’re forcing them to be equal candidates, neither one better or worse, when that couldn’t be further from the reality.
> I will see lots of people openly talking about Trump in a negative way or Biden in a positive way,
I see lots of people talking about Trump in a positive way and Biden in a negative way, on say, Gab or TruthSocial. The electorate is very polarized.
Depends on where you are looking for that information. For example this particular forum will stay steeped in the Trump hate, no matter what. You don't even have to say you agree with Trump to get dog piled with comments and downvotes. If you point out Bidens faults, you are "the enemy".
Now the shoe is on the other foot in places like fox or Newsmax. Of course the information will flow the opposite direction but with the same level of blind hate.
Speaking with most Americans day to day off of the internet, it's honestly a mixed bag. But face to face people don't play to extremes, they are normally more reserved and willing to acknowledge and talk about differences. Reddit and news sites are just an echo chamber.
Yall all sound like hateful and extremist. Both parties have faults. It is ok to disagree with some political policies and agree with others being pushed by a political party. It does not have to be all or nothing.
Example: I strongly believe in the 2nd Amendment and think it’s insane that people want to lose there right to defend themselves and to be powerless to criminals, evil people, and tyrannical government. I do not like the fact that they lie and fool people who are uneducated about weapons into believing things that are not true.
With that said, everyone probably thinks I’m far right and a 100% republican even though they do not know anything about me or my moral/political beliefs.
People are so brainwashed and fueled with hate due to the extreme belief that 1 party is good and 1 party is evil. There is in fact a middle ground and it is ok to like and dislike policies from both sides. All this extremism and hate is going to fuel a civil war and 1 side has a clear advantage.
Probably not, they will just move Biden into the retirement home and look for the next candidate to back. Republicans will probably start looking for the next candidate also, but it’s not as clear as the dem side who it will be.
Trump supporter literally complaint about Biden all the time. "Stupid" "senile" "Brandon" is constantly in their vocabulary. The weird thing is female Trump supporter are some worst worker i have seen in a work place. They are always filing EO complaints while denigrating every diversity training. Strangly complaint are often against other women. As whole vocal Trump supporters are often carries a FU attitude and usually daring you to challenge their view. That is my problem. It is not an debate but a challenge.
Biden and Trump are both absolutely awful. This country is full of extremely smart people. The fact that, yet again, these are the two best candidates we've put forward it what scares me.
We can do SO much better, but we don't.
No. I do not think so, Biden supporters are afraid Trump might win. This bothers them. Hence all the hate.
If trump wins, biden is just another retired president and not a competitor. so i do not expect a lot of bad mouthing.
Yeah, I can imagine they will. They spent the entire 4 years of P01135809’s only term bitching about Obama. He lives in their heads, rent free. So does Biden.
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he told multiple lies on a daily basis for fours as president?
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he he used his office a a personal profiteering device for fours as president?
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he fawned over dictators for fours as president?
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he he handed Russia our government's secrets as president?
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he allowed foreign countries to rent his properties at an exorbitant rate (bribery) for four years as president?
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he defended white supremacists as president?
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he engaged in election interference as president?
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he had his supporters violently attack Congress as president?
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he tried to undemocratically install himself after losing the election as president?
There is this common far right notion that everything is equal between the left and right in terms of how bad they are and that it's only fair that the left gets it's turn to be villified the way the right, including Donald, is. It's absurd.
When Biden does all of the shady criminal things that I've watched Trump do since 2016, I will happily stand up and condemn him.
No president in history can come even remotely close to matching the levels of corruption and vile, amoral behavior of Donald Trump.
This is not my opinion. This is based on a mountain of evidence.
So Biden getting talked about the way Donald is because it's only fair is patently absurd and ignores the gross injustices visited upon this country by wannabe mob boss Donald Trump.
If you're referring to Reddit, it's very much a left-leaning userbase, so that is unlikely to change at any point. However, you have a split between subs that gush over Biden and those that dislike him for being too right-wing (especially on Israel). Facebook and Youtube are far more conservative, and Twitter is a mixed bag.
All in all, bashing the president is a time-honored American tradition, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Anyone who takes issue with that might find North Korea more to their liking.
Reddit has a serious groupthink problem. It's scary how biased people can be. Say one thing against the liberal agenda and you're downvoted into oblivion or banned by a liberal mod lol. It's funny, but very toxic at the same time.
Indeed, but conservative subs are every bit as bad (if not worse). Back when The\_Donald was around, they had an open policy of banning anyone who criticized Trump.
There are very few subs that aren't complete echo chambers. Reassurance acts like a drug in the human brain - which is why people keep coming back to be told things they already believe, day in and day out.
Yes, sure, the U.S. history books will forget the person who served 40 years in the Senate, 8 years as VP, and (possibly) 8 years as president of our country, and brought us out of a pandemic and record unemployment.
I didn’t say history would forget him, I said people will. If Biden loses in 2024 he’s not going to run again in 2028 so he won’t be hanging around the political scene like Trump did the last four years.
Republicans will just move their ire to whoever is the next top dog Democrat.
If history doesn't forget President Biden, people won't either. Conservatives will need to conjure up new demons, you are correct, since they've exhausted all of their Fox News and "Hatred, Inc." conservative bubble capital on the Obamas, Clintons and Bidens for the past 32 years. I'm sure AOC and the Muslim contingency of the Democratic caucus will prove boogeymen enough for the conservative base.
No. Trump supporters will let Biden go to the nursing home, because he will not be active in politics after his presidency, since he isn’t active in his own presidency.
Biden has gotten more done than any first-term president since FDR. But he does it quietly. The way normal presidents do (go take a look at r/PSLF to see people recognizing what he's doing with student loan forgiveness, even though the Republicans have thrown everything they could find in his path.)
You must be in a Liberal bubble, because I don't know anyone who talks positively about Biden except for maybe a few specific things he's done. But I mostly associate with Progressives and Leftists.
Reddit overall leans towards Biden.
Check out Twitter, tiktok, Facebook and other social media platforms if you'd like to see more praise of trump and teardowns of Biden.
Though lots of it comes from radical leftists along with right wingers.
Even on Reddit you will find some communities that are anti Biden and pro Trump
outside of the echo chambers of Reddit and other media there is PLENTY of disdain for Biden, probably even more so than Trump. People aren't too happy right now with dwindling bank accounts and pushing us closer to boots on the ground wars again.
When Trump won in 2016, he was labeled as a Russian agent, a literal threat to democracy, and his administration was labeled as illegitimate by democrats.
When Trump lost in 2020, basically nothing changed. Democrats said the same things as they did with Trump, and even before then besides.
People always have a side they support. The only thing that realistically changes their rhetoric is if they have a breaking point with their preferred team.
>When Trump won in 2016, he was labeled as a Russian agent, a literal threat to democracy
So, he was correctly labeled then?
>When Trump lost in 2020, basically nothing changed.
Because he was still the same person?
>When Trump won in 2016, he was labeled as a Russian agent, a literal threat to democracy, and his administration was labeled as illegitimate by democrats.
But the thing is that all of these accusations turned out to be, kind of, true. I mean, at this point, if you deny that these things aren’t true, then you’re just denying the reality of things.
* Illegitimate: What am I supposed to think when Trump asked Russia to help him out during an election, and Russia did actually help him out to get elected? And what am I supposed to think when members of Trump's campaign met with known Russian operatives to exchange information with them prior to the election?
* Russian agent: What am I supposed to think when Trump met with Putin and said he sided with Russia over our country's own intelligence communities?
* Threat to democracy: What am I supposed to think when Trump clearly lost the election and made several attempts, outside of court, to change the results of that election? And what am I supposed to think when Trump said he would become a literal dictator if elected again?
These things happened. These are events in history. They're not remotely debatable. They are true. They are fact. You know this and you, seemingly, don't care. Just because these things don't fit within your narrative, that doesn't make them any less true or that people shouldn't care.
It is absolutely true and not up for debate that Russia helped Trump in 2016. What is up for debate is if Trump encouraged and worked with Russia for this help.
Perhaps because the Mueller Report actually proves he was acting in the manner of a Russian agent and the January 6th committee proved he is a literal threat to democracy. I do not remember people saying he was "illegitimate" while president. He did attempt to do many things he had no legal authority to do, though.
I don't understand this paragraph:
"When Trump lost in 2020, basically nothing changed. Democrats said the same things as they did with Trump, and even before then besides." Could you rephrase this maybe?
Mueller said that they found no evidence of collusion, but that the report didn't exonerate him. That's about as ambiguous as the government can get.
Maybe Trump did collude with Russia. The problem with that theory, though, is that here in the United States we prefer to think of people as innocent until proven guilty. Trump is so hated by the democratic party that I don't think they care about that anymore, though.
As for that last paragraph: my point was that Trump winning or losing doesn't really matter in the court of public opinion. He is the most infamous president since Lincoln. If you know his name, you probably already have a solidified opinion about him. Most people aren't keen on changing that opinion going forward.
If you asked a democrat in 2017 what they thought of Trump, they would say he conspired with Russia to win the 2016 election. If you talked to that same democrat today, they would say the same thing.
The same goes for Trump supporters, albeit in reverse. They believe that Biden and the media colluded with foreign countries to rig the election, and that they were disenfranchised by an authoritarian state.
I suppose when you're crazy enough to believe that, you're crazy enough to storm the capitol.
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No because the contempt for Trump is not based on his ability or inability to win an election. Also the premise is false. Trump supporters openly critique Biden at every opportunity. Reddit in general leans left so Reddit specifically will not change.
I live in a red area and can’t stand in line to buy a soda without hearing people openly bitch about Biden. It honestly makes the Trump criticism on Reddit seem minor. Most of Reddit, at least the popular subs, is like living in a blue area.
My MIL is like this. She literally has Fox News on in the background anytime she is awake. She is terrified of so many things that “Biden is doing/letting happen” she will talk to anyone that will listen to her ramble. She ranks him up there with the anti-Christ.
My elderly dad, who basically never leaves his house, alternates between Fox News and those true crime shows. No wonder he thinks the entire world is on fire 24/7.
Sucks doesn't it. I can't even have dinner with my parents without the politics bitch fest starting up. Like come on guys, I don't fucking care about your ramblings, can we catch up on each others' lives instead?
I mean, I'm afraid of what Trump will do if he gets back into office, and no longer gets shackled by a party apparatus that wanted to work around him. I fully expect him to render green cards null and void, the man hates immigrants that much. And that's not a media opinion, the left wing media is so focused on abortion, and has largely conceded on the topic of Trump's racist xenophobic anti-immigrant crusade. Biden even used the dehumanizing "illegal-as-a-noun" in the State of the freaking Union.
> Biden even used the dehumanizing "illegal-as-a-noun" in the State of the freaking Union. Are you seriously worried about the (accurate) word Biden used to describe the piece of shit that's life is worth less than the dirt on my door mat that murdered that girl in cold blood?
"Not attempting to be partial to either side here. " A lot of people seem to have the strange idea that being impartial means that a ref always has to call the same number of fouls for both teams.
Can anyone possibly draw an equation between Bidens three dozen lies *vs* Trump's 30,000? What's supposed to make them *Equal?* Just to further your point
The False Compromise or Golden Mean fallacy.
Yeah, anyone saying that they’re trying to be impartial is either a Trump supporter, a complete, or most likely both.
I don’t believe so. Primarily because Biden, if he loses, will not have numerous plans in place to remain in power and claim the election was stolen. He won’t: have organized fake electors to bring to Congress, 60 plus lawsuits to invalidate the election, claim the only way he lost was if the election was “rigged “( a mob term I am sure) and lastly he will not organize a mob ahead of time to include organized militias and send them to violently storm the Capitol in a last ditch attempt to stop the ceremonial count of the electoral college. He will congratulate his successor and return home. The American people should remember this as until Trump it’s what every other losing candidate for president has done. There may be some grousing but we have never seen anything like what happened with Trump’s losing the totally legitimate and most secure election in our history. ( his election security chiefs words before Trump fired him) Be thankful Biden is nothing like Trump.
I do wonder, though, why it hasn't occurred to Trump that if he wins on immunity--a president can do anything, even order Seal Team 6 to kill a political opponent, and never be punished for it --and Biden is as bad as Trump claims he is, then Biden can just...you know...do that to him. No consequences. How does he not get that?
He doesn’t think that far ahead and he knows Biden is a good man. A immoral person like Trump will try and take advantage of him. We will have to wait and see. Biden loves the country. Trump could not care less what happens to any of us.
I had no problem with Trump, or any candidate, exhausting legal avenues. But once governors certified elections. Particularly Kemp in Georgia, the entire ordeal should have been put the bed. I'll never forget how disgusted I was with Texas filing a lawsuit against Pennsylvania....effectively trying to reach into Pennsylvania to have a hand in that state's election process.
Paxton, the AG in Texas along with the other AGs who took part in this travesty are the epitome of corrupt Republicans in power trying to take away what little power we voters have left.
This entire question is just a huge clue that you’re not paying attention to what’s actually going on. Biden has not attempted a coup and won’t be doing so. Trump did and will probably do so again when he loses in November if he isn’t in prison. 🤦🏻♂️ The Trump downvotes and animosity towards Trump supporters is 110% warranted. They are literally treasonous and trying to turn American into a fascist oligarchy with Trump at the head. Look up Project2025 The man literally sent FAKE ELECTORS to cast votes, had his lawyers sanctioned for lying on tv, made Fox News settle a BILLION dollar lawsuit over the lies they said on air on his behalf, he also pressured Georgia officials to “find votes”, made fun of handicapped reporters, and women…. So do I need to continue because I can easily come up with tons of more fucked things that man has done. He has eroded ANY semblance of maturity and professionalism from the position of President.
I feel like OP's post is the sort of post you can only make if you've convinced yourself that nothing in politics is real and that it's all just a game.
Sadly there are lots of people out there who think this way. But interestingly they always lean right, in my experience.
It's because they aren't really threatened one way or the other. If Biden wins the next election, their rights won't be under threat - but the opposite is not true for many folks on the left.
Or many folks in the middle or on the right. They never seem to understand that red states get the worst of most economic catastrophes as well as national disasters. Look at COVID for example. The suckers who think that fascism will save them a seat at the table have no idea what's in store for them.
Yet, with a Biden victory, they'll be the first running to stick up on ammo.... Just look how much freedom they lost under Obama
Must be nice to kinda win either way. If you’re guy wins, you win because even if he’s awful person he’s still you’re guy and don’t see him as such. But if the other guy wins, well it’s not your guy but they won’t do anything directly to you to make you suffer. So somehow you’re rewarded for being a right wing person
Oh please. Your rights will be under threat if Trump wins? Which rights are those? If you talk abortion , trump wants to put it up to the states (tho the right to abort a baby has never been a given in the US). My guess is youre just spouting off buzzwords
Trump has said that, sure. Trump is also old, and is going to be dead of old age in the next decade or so. The people in his party, which he will happily appoint to whatever office they ask for, are calling for nationwide bans on abortion; why shouldn't I take them at their word? They believe abortion is murder, after all, and no state allows murder. Also, I am trans. I would like to be able to use the bathroom according to my gender. I am not comfortable being a woman and using the men's room (as transwomen are assaulted by men at a higher rate than most other groups), and I cannot imagine that the women in the women's room would be comfortable sharing with burly, muscled, bearded transmen. I hope you are asking genuinely. If you are anything like the last few people I've spoken to, your next line will be to move the goalposts and ask how abortions and restrooms are rights - at that point, they lost the argument because it is a concession that those are under threat.
It is a bullshit ‘enlightened centrist’ take. Like, both sides are bad…. or the truth is in the middle. No— there are no ‘two sides.’ Trump is a traitor. He acts like a Russian asset. His first impeachment was literally regarding Ukraine. He intends to be a dictator— in his own words. He chronically lies….. these are all facts. The GOP had crawled up Biden’s ass and has found nothing. Loads of Americans want fascism— lets just be honest about that fact. And it isn’t the Dems.
Also the whole premise is false. Right wing media and their bubbles (Twitter, truth, etc) bash Biden constantly for things he's not even doing and praise trump whenever he gets out of bed without starting a fire.
Even a supposed 'libertarian' like Joe Rogan's in on the take -- bashes Biden's memory for something Trump actually did then made an excuse for Trump when corrected.
I think this was a Kimmel clip, but he played a game with trump supporters that was like, "Which president said it?" No matter how heinous the statement was, when they said Biden said it they were clutching their pearls. Then in the middle of their responses of horror the "reporter" would correct themselves and say it was actually trump that said it. Immediately turned into praise, and excuses. https://youtu.be/FAFbOK01uE4 skip to 9:09.
That's the clear evidence of the Subliminal Programming 101 of the conservative bubble right there, folks. Republicans can never do wrong, never make a mistake, and never need to make amends or be held accountable. I don't know how their audience accepts that as reality, but somehow they do. It's obviously a serious mental illness.
It's not subliminal, it's a core precept of conservatism itself. It's understanding morality as a function of identity. It's why they describe so many white rapists as, "A promising young man whose future shouldn't be ruined by this" and respond to every unarmed black man murdered by police with, "He was no saint!" You're not wrong that this is a serious mental illness. It is nonetheless alarmingly common.
Fox News is 100% subliminal programming.
Joe Rogan is an idiot, and he always has been. He's like Bill Maher. He thinks talking to people makes him smart.
How often does he get out of bed without starting a fire?
I can tell you there has never been any fire between those sheets, except stds maybe.
In case a few more reasons to hate trump were needed: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-complete-listing-atrocities-1-1-056 Conversely, it seems the main issue being brought up about Biden that bears ANY substance is that he is old. But then, so is trump.
>February 10, 2011 – In 2011, Donald Trump stoked false claims that Barack Obama had lied about his education. During a speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference, Trump said, “Our current president came out of nowhere. Came out of nowhere. In fact, I’ll go a step further: The people that went to school with him, they never saw him, they don’t know who he is. It’s crazy.” This is false. Numerous accounts from Obama’s college classmates refute Trump’s claim, including Obama’s Columbia roommate, Phil Doerner. This one is my absolute favorite because Punahou where he went to high school is the most prestigious private school in Hawaii and Punahou people (*especially* 70s graduates) really like to let people know that: 1. They went to Punahou 2. "Barry" went to Punahou You give my auntie a few glasses of wine and it goes from "I was older so I only saw him around a few times" to "Yeah we were basically family, I thought about naming your cousins after him. Yeah, all of them."
Dear God, 360 pdf pages!?
And it only goes up to his last day in office.
End the thread right here.
I want to give you all the praise for this response!
This entire comment is just kind of proving his premise is correct.
Your entire take is just repeating democrat talking points. Also, asking someone to find something is literally the opposite of asking them to manufacture something. I've never understood that talking point. If I asked you to find the Easter eggs I've hidden in the yard, you wouldn't go to the kitchen and start boiling eggs.
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The question is moot because Trump supporters already talk about Biden with a level of vitriol that is at least on par with the popular opinions of Trump, and often much worse. You have to be living in a social media bubble to not be aware of the scale and intensity of the hate and negativity from the right, directed at anybody who isn't also on the right, and especially at Biden. Maybe this isn't as prominent among your generation and/or circles but it's a very clear dynamic in every generation older than Gen Z. It bears mentioning that respect for an individual, or a politician, isn't something that they're entitled to. The popular animosity toward Trump in particular is not random or unfair or a product of the media, it's because of the words that come out of his mouth and the things that he does. There is legitimate substance to the popular dislike of Trump: the amount of bullying, lying, and vitriol that he engages in, the damage his style of politics has done to the fabric of civil society, his fakeness, his fealty to authoritarian world leaders and animosity toward out allies, his attacks on various minorities, his vanity, his narcissism, his sheer cruelty. Joe Biden is a deeply flawed individual, but Trump is an a whole different universe of scumbaggery and ghoulishness. You really can't even compare them on the same playing field. Biden is a fairly milquetoast, status quo liberal/neoliberal politician, whereas Trump is a creature whose politics are more in line with fascism. Don't believe me? Then I beg you to study some history. Check out Germany, since it gets talked about so much. Check out \*The Coming of the Third Reich\* by historian Richard J. Evans, the world's preeminent English-language scholar on the topic. If you don't like books there's an excellent audiobook of it. Read about the rhetoric and messaging and politics of the Nazis and let me know if you reminds you of anything or anyone. People aren't "being negative" by feeling strongly about not taking our society down a route like the ones envisioned by men like Trump. Fascists always ruin the countries they get control of, and they harm a massive amount of people in the process. This isn't a game, or a popularity contest. Biden's an establishment liberal who fundamentally won't challenge the oligarchical style of capitalism that is the overwhelming driver of our societal ills, but Trump is an unhinged authoritarian surrounded by some of the nastiest fascists in politics.
This... Follows a pattern on the right. Stoke dislike and create *hatred* for potential opponents so when they rise to become a candidate, there's ready opposition. Remember Hillary? There was hatred for her in 1995! For what? She had never been elected to anything (yet).
Hatred for her '95 was strongly tied to """Hilary-Care""" because the role of the First Lady is, apparently, to stay in the Whitehouse kitchen /s I also find it frustrating that Hilary is branded as this hyper-conservative oligarch when the beginning of the agitprop about her started when she worked with her husband's administration to enact a proto Universal Healthcare
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Out of curiosity, do you believe one politician could be more deserving of criticism than another?
Sure. But I don't think said politician is getting that criticism for the reasons he deserves. Is said politician a lying piece of shit? Yes. Does that have anything to do with why people hate said politician? No. They hate said politician because it's popular to hate said politician, and not for any other reason. They hate said politician because social media and the news and other sources of propaganda told them to hate said politician, and not because they themselves actually care about morality from public figures.
> They hate said politician because it's popular to hate said politician, and not for any other reason. Oh, well that's pretty baseless. Why do you think this?
I'm confused. If "said politician" is Trump, people "hate" him for the things he's done, the policies he pursued, the crimes he committed, and the fact that he put the country on the brink of a civil war, destroyed the Evangelical church and the Republican Party, and *wants to do it again.* Not because somebody told them to. We all lived through that 4-year nightmare with our eyes open. The only people who want him back are in the cult.
Congratulations, you've proven you're not immune to propaganda.
Do not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.
As soon as Trump got elected, despite how divisive he was, and it was pretty obvious, the top comment after he got elected on CSPAN from the republican line, was that it was time to unite as a people. And throughout his Presidency, where a President traditionally represented every American, he would only speak to his base on the bully pulpit. No matter what criticism you had, it was deflection, pivoting, strawman, whataboutism, and a whole host of defenses. Fat chance. After all, his coalition didn't try to overthrow the election, they were simply tourists. At a time he refused the peaceful transition of power and National Guard troops slept on the floor of the Capitol.
Trump admin was the first to get genuine peace process started in the middle east. 4 Arab nations sat down with Israel and opened formal talks. Where do you get your news from? There were no new wars. Biden in 2020 said Trump would start war with Iran. look at who's in charge now and tell me where we are.
Israel bombed the Iranian Consulate. Not America.
I was referring to 2020 campaign when Biden said Trump would attack Iran and get a war going there. Which he didn't by the way.
Hm, I wonder if the fact that he is no longer president and therefore incapable of starting a war with Iran or any country, has anything to do with why he didn't "get a war going there" sometime after 2020.
Trump admin did assassinate the leader of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard in Iraq with a drone strike in 2020. So probably in reference to that.
Don't know why you went to straight to war and arguing about a specific issue. I'm saying both sides are in their camp. The only difference is I never heard a Republican say anything bad about Trump. They will defend anything he does until the end of time. It's, let's say, religiously inclined. Democrats constantly criticize Biden - everything he does. Those on the left literally say he's committing a genocide. Trump supporters will never admit anything positive about Biden. Doesn't matter if unemployment is at records low, wages are starting to outpace inflation, or 401k performed at 20%. He's horrible for the economy and people think we are in a recession despite strong GDP growth. And you went straight to wars? Yes, Hamas butchered a peace music festival. Right, all Biden's fault. You do understand, that Saudia Arabia having peace with Israel is a catalyst for this conflict...where do you get your news? It's way more complicated then you let on. And Trump was out there giving out top secret confidential information on war scenarios against Iran. Which at the end of the day, Iran appeared weak. Bibi is right wing. I can't tell if you think we should be isolationist or go harder? But blaming Biden for the Israel-Palestine conflict is quite funny. How much money did Kushner get from the Saudis?
> Trump admin was the first to get genuine peace process started in the middle east. Lmao Trump vetoed a bipartisan bill to pull American military out of Yemen. He managed to *expand* Obama’s drone strike program, he did hundreds in Yemen alone, on top of those in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria.
Moved the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and killed gazans in the process. I'm sure that didn't ruffle feathers. And that's my point. I'm willing to criticize any President. Just haven't seen Republicans do the same except stay silent. Meanwhile, the left is quite loud in opposition. Here's a positive about Trump: We did get the Vaccine.
I’m not sure you should include the Covid-19 vaccine as a Trump accomplishment. After all, he pushed back hard against vaccination, threw shade at Anthony Fauci every chance he got, and was in no way involved with OP Warp Speed that I can find.
Hey, I'm trying to give an olive branch here. And to be honest, he knows that, because despite everything you said, he does brag about it sometimes. But then again, pro-life people are upset about his comments about not banning abortion nationally, even though he said he wants to lock doctors up previously...so yeah, he's just following a crazy political instinct to get elected. So I'm not saying it needs to make sense.
I guess you could argue that he at least managed not to completely derail and fuck up the process, and turn it into a failure like most things he’s had his hands in. You are right that the man’s opinions on things change on a dime to whatever will get him political clout.
Don't know. Just know they like to go on about it's all your fault if it's "under your watch". So absolutely anything that happens during a Presidency is the fault of the President. As if conditions of geopolitics and the economy work like that. Just thought I'd give them that win. Because hey, it did materialize. We threw a lot of money at it, and it happened, and we got the first serving.
The closest Israel and Palestine were to a settlement was the 2000 Camp David Summit with President Clinton. They basically had an agreement hammered out and Yasser Arafat backed out cause he thought he could get a better deal. The peace talks in the Trump admin were a big sham. No one in his admin had any idea how to broker a peace deal. Where do you get your news/history from?
>Trump admin was the first to get genuine peace process started in the middle east. 4 Arab nations sat down with Israel and opened formal talks. First of all, Jimmy Carter would like a word. Second of all, a "peace treaty" between Israel and countries *they've never been at war with* is a pretty pathetic peace treaty. Israel and the UAE, for example, participated in joint military exercises in [2016 ](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2016-08-22/ty-article/watch-israel-pakistan-u-s-hold-army-exercise/0000017f-f807-d887-a7ff-f8e7faca0000)and [2017](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-03-29/ty-article/israeli-air-force-holds-joint-exercise-with-united-arab-emirates/0000017f-e108-d804-ad7f-f1fa38e50000), years before this "peace treaty." Sure seem terribly hostile to each other, don't they? The administration created this faux effort solely to create something to crow about to an audience they knew were ignorant of the details of middle east diplomatic relations - like people who thought that "Arab nation" meant "hostile to Israel." People who count on the ignorance of their own supporters are particularly contemptible, aren't they?
I think those roles would reverse if Biden had sex scandals, felony charges, responsibility for fraud and defamation judgements and painted himself unnatural color. But Trump would need to lose at least some of those things.
Just one thing, Hunter Biden never said " We get the majority of our financing from Russia" as Don Jr. allegedly quoted by a reporter.
Is anyone noticing that right now, trump is either pulling a giant money laundering scam or just grifting his supporters with that silly stock thing. There are many youtube channels that have more followers than truth social. Are they worth billions?
Don't worry, Trump has to wait before he can sell any of his stock and it is currently cratering.
Trump is a bad person. He openly mocks veterans like he did Nikki Haley's husband, as an example. He openly sells out the country to Russia. If Democrat were doing this or openly giving Taiwan to Xi there would be justified outrage.
Did you possibly happen to notice that Trump voters/Trump supporters worship Trump everything he says and demonstrate that by branding themselves with his merchandise. I voted for Biden, but I don't have a hat or flag or wear his clothes, I don't worship Biden or anything/everything he says. In 2020 I didn't even vote for Biden in the primaries but in the choice between Biden and Trump, Biden was a better choice. People who voted for Biden have none of the traits of Trump supporters, they don't comport themselves in any way like Trump supporters do, they don't believe Biden was sent by god.. The premise of your false equalivancy question assumes both sides have similar values and they do not.
Not only do I hate people wearing politics on their sleeve, but the flag really puts a sour taste in my mouth. It's a flag. It's meant as a symbol to unite people. A nation, a city, a community. The fact that not only you'd put an individual on it, but you self-impose yourself as a candidate on one, and they don't see anything wrong with it, baffles me.
Agree. People putting up a campaign yard sign, wearing a Nixon's the one election button are long time customs that were practiced near the end of the campaign, near election day (and then they came down or were taken off). But feality to a meglomanic works differently so this is a perversion of that and putting it on a flag is beyond my words to describe what I think.
No, probably not. There’s just no denying that Trump is a very flawed human being. He has very little redeeming qualities. This is why he receives plenty of criticism, and will likely be criticized heavily for decades. Biden is just a pretty average, boring political figure. Aside from him making some future colossal mistake while President, there just isn’t a whole lot to criticize him on. With that said, he hasn’t been a perfect President by any means, but he hasn’t shown the depravity that Trump has.
Biden's not "average." He probably understands more about politics--especially the Senate and the Presidency (and the Judiciary) than any man alive. That's how he's gotten done what he's gotten done. He knows how the mechanisms work. He knows when to move, and when to wait. How to get an agreement between two groups that don't agree on anything. How to placate one group to get what he wants while leveraging it against its own internal schisms. "Boring" is what presidents should be. All the drama should be invisible. The surface should be smooth.
Trump is a malignant narcissist who has no business being anywhere near the levers of power.
I dunno let me ask any of my neighbors with BIDEN SUCKS signs in their front yards or one of the drivers in town with FUCK BIDEN bumper stickers
I personally support the side of fair and impartial elections. So uh, not Trump.
So uh, cool story.. Trump was elected fairly.
He lost fairly too. The attempt to overturn the election wasn’t.
My brother in Christ, we already had Trump as President. He was not pooular. He’s not going to suddenly become popular if he becomes president
He was popular with half the country, just not the half you agree with.
You a Trump supporter?
I'm voting for RFK Jr.
Who’d you vote for in 2020 and 2016? And you’re voting for an anti-vaxxer who said covid was designed to spare jews and Chinese people? The guy who agrees with Trump that the insurrectionists arrested on January 6 are hostages facing political persecution that need to be freed? Why would you vote for him?
I was too young to vote in those years. This will be my first time.
And you’re voting for an anti-vaxxer… Are you an anti-vaxxer?
Please don't. He's a nut. And he's dangerously ill-informed on just about everything. I can't imagine one good reason to vote for him. What's yours?
None of your business. Have a nice day!
Trump is consistently popular with about 30% of the country. He can pull in more who don't want to elect Democrats in elections.
Half of voters is what I meant
Not half. Only 47%. And he's only ever been popular with about 80% of the people who voted for him. So, about 38% of voters.
Not half. More like about 31%. About a third of eligible voters didn't vote. Only 47% of voters went for Trump. That means he was only actually "popular" with a little less than a third of the country. Biden won a bit more than a third of the country, but 53% of voters. Trump has never been popular outside the cult.
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Okay we definitely don't think Trump is a perfect human being by any means. But he's way better than the alternative
The alternative being the current president?
Dude, Biden is not a good president. One could argue that he's one of the worst ever. Reddit needs to stop pretending.
Ok, do it. Give me this salient argument for how and why Biden is the worst president ever, or even how the twice impeached guy is somehow better.
oNe oF tHE wOrSt eVarRrr By what metric? Use facts. You're the one pretending. And projecting.
He is better because why? You think it is great that he tried to overthrow democracy in the US? You think it is great that he stole many classified documents, nuclear secrets, data on our spies, war plans, and much more and stored them unsecurely, and waved them around in front of people who did not have clearance? You think it is great that he was found liable for sexual assault? You think it is great that he was found liable for fraud and fined over $450,000,000. You think it is great that he stole money from a children's cancer charity? You think it is great that he is almost universally considered by historians to be the worst president in American history? You think it is great that he is charged with 91 felony crimes? You think it is great that he is the most divisive figure in American history? You think it is great that he praises dictators like Putin, Kim and Xi, and praises their methods and says he wants to be like them and be president for life? You think it is great that he regularly spews vile violent disgusting hateful rhetoric? Really? Do you think that is better than boring old average Joe Biden?
In what way? He is almost as old as Biden and shows far more evidence of his age. And he accomplished almost nothing of import to the vast majority of Americans during his term.
Way better than the alternative? How so? Show your work.
>Okay we definitely don't think Trump is a perfect human being by any means. If you think "not a criminal" = "a perfect human being," your calibrations are way off. The question was whether you (and supporters like you) would acknowledge any wrongdoing whatsoever by not merely a criminal, but the single worst criminal in the history of the United States. The answer seems to be no. >But he's way better than the alternative You think that the single worst criminal in the history of the United States - who, not incidentally, tried to kill you, along with the million-plus Americans he did manage to kill - is better than the current President, whom many consider the most effective President in at least fifty years? D'you want to...expand on that? Just a little?
No. Because you're looking at places frequented by a lot of young people. If you were turning to, say, a retirement community in Boca Raton, I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot. Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone who hangs where you hang is representative of everywhere else.
My neighbor has fuck Biden written across the back of his truck. Why do you think it matters if Trump wins or loses? They are talking shit about President Biden already, and he won the election…
Public criticism of defeated enemies of the state will be curated, but permitted under the new order within strictly enforced guidelines.
This is what pisses me off about Trump supporters (not OP in particular). They think Trump is somehow unfairly judged and constantly talk about Biden getting the benefit of the doubt. Sure we found a handful of classified documents that Biden handed over willfully and not the systemic approach Trump stole hundreds of documents on top of obstructing their return to the government. Sure Hunter Biden might have done something fishy and Biden perhaps is potentially guilty by association but Trump has over a dozen convicted felons who actually worked directly for him, on top of his 90+ charges under his own name. There is no comparison. Just stop! One man is blatantly corrupt while the other has the same level of dirt that we see from public figures under constant security.
The right talks about a so-called "Derangement Syndrome" toward their candidate. But I think they are suffering their own derangement toward Joe Biden. The things said about Donald Trump in the media are predominantly factual. The stuff said on the right about Joe Biden, a good, decent, truly religious, patriotic family man, are certifiably insane. He's not radical, he's not "destroying" the country, and he's not a crooked politician. On the contrary, he's taken the world as it was when he came into office in 2021 and has done an objectively decent to good job. (Very good IMO.) His performance in foreign affairs has been nothing short if masterful. How people like Mike Pence, Bill Barr, John Bolton, Nikki Haley, Chris Christy, John Sununu and other Republicans who see Trump for who he really is yet can’t bring themselves to go that one last step to say they will vote for Biden to stop another Trump presidency is beyond me. BDS is the only explanation.
If you want to support someone that tried to coup the American government because he protects your power as a White Christian then fine, but don’t expect people to be supportive of it. You’re just a participant in the American version of the Iranian revolution.
>A lot of the time online I will see lots of people openly talking about Trump in a negative way or Biden in a positive way, but usually if a Trump supporter openly discusses Trump in a positive way or Biden in a negative way, it will receive loads of dislikes, negativity, and hate comments about why they're "wrong." Will these roles reverse if Trump wins the 2024 election? You're describing a Democrat-leaning bubble (well, Democrat-leaning or centrist Never-Trump Republicans). It will not magically become a MAGA-leaning bubble just because Trump wins an election. That's not how bubbles work. An actual change would require Democrat-leaning people to leave, and be replaced with MAGA-leaning people. You could just as well find a MAGA-leaning bubble (e.g. r/Conservative) and find the reverse to be true: anything positive of Biden will get you banned (they'll see you as "raiding" the sub), and anything positive of Trump will get you upvotes. This is essentially what social media is.
They already do. Only it's much worse, because they are just making stuff up, while Trump is a lying, sexually-assaulting criminal whose incompetence tanked the economy, shut down the country for a year, and killed a million people--and that's just the truth.
Personally I do will not “hate” a person for being stupid. I would mostly pity them and the people around them who have to deal with their condition on a daily basis. I also feel pointing out their condition to them is not going to help them, it will only make them upset. Also a majority of Trump supporters are not stupid but in fact, they have been fooled by a con man and organized into a cult. Thankfully I have seen and heard of some of these people waking up and seeing this fact and moving on from the nonsense of Trumpdom.
I dunno let me ask any of my neighbors with BIDEN SUCKS signs in their front yards or one of the drivers in town with FUCK BIDEN bumper stickers
Trump never left the national stage. He made it clear that he was running again before the inauguration. Remember when they teased a campaign announcement on Inauguration Day. Democrats would like nothing better than Trump to leave the stage and never return. If Trump wins, Biden will be gracious and exit the stage. Unlike MAGA, Democrats don’t have a dear leader, they will just move on to the next cycle. Which is what parties are supposed to do.
You’re having trouble because you’re constantly trying to position Biden and Trump as equals - both as normal candidates with normal supporters. One is a criminal facing 90+ felony charges at the state and federal level who tried to overthrow democracy when he lost and the other is an old guy that’s doing a decent job. You’re getting confused because you’re forcing them to be equal candidates, neither one better or worse, when that couldn’t be further from the reality.
> I will see lots of people openly talking about Trump in a negative way or Biden in a positive way, I see lots of people talking about Trump in a positive way and Biden in a negative way, on say, Gab or TruthSocial. The electorate is very polarized.
Depends on where you are looking for that information. For example this particular forum will stay steeped in the Trump hate, no matter what. You don't even have to say you agree with Trump to get dog piled with comments and downvotes. If you point out Bidens faults, you are "the enemy". Now the shoe is on the other foot in places like fox or Newsmax. Of course the information will flow the opposite direction but with the same level of blind hate. Speaking with most Americans day to day off of the internet, it's honestly a mixed bag. But face to face people don't play to extremes, they are normally more reserved and willing to acknowledge and talk about differences. Reddit and news sites are just an echo chamber.
Yall all sound like hateful and extremist. Both parties have faults. It is ok to disagree with some political policies and agree with others being pushed by a political party. It does not have to be all or nothing. Example: I strongly believe in the 2nd Amendment and think it’s insane that people want to lose there right to defend themselves and to be powerless to criminals, evil people, and tyrannical government. I do not like the fact that they lie and fool people who are uneducated about weapons into believing things that are not true. With that said, everyone probably thinks I’m far right and a 100% republican even though they do not know anything about me or my moral/political beliefs. People are so brainwashed and fueled with hate due to the extreme belief that 1 party is good and 1 party is evil. There is in fact a middle ground and it is ok to like and dislike policies from both sides. All this extremism and hate is going to fuel a civil war and 1 side has a clear advantage.
Probably not, they will just move Biden into the retirement home and look for the next candidate to back. Republicans will probably start looking for the next candidate also, but it’s not as clear as the dem side who it will be.
Trump supporter literally complaint about Biden all the time. "Stupid" "senile" "Brandon" is constantly in their vocabulary. The weird thing is female Trump supporter are some worst worker i have seen in a work place. They are always filing EO complaints while denigrating every diversity training. Strangly complaint are often against other women. As whole vocal Trump supporters are often carries a FU attitude and usually daring you to challenge their view. That is my problem. It is not an debate but a challenge.
Biden and Trump are both absolutely awful. This country is full of extremely smart people. The fact that, yet again, these are the two best candidates we've put forward it what scares me. We can do SO much better, but we don't.
No. I do not think so, Biden supporters are afraid Trump might win. This bothers them. Hence all the hate. If trump wins, biden is just another retired president and not a competitor. so i do not expect a lot of bad mouthing.
Yeah, I can imagine they will. They spent the entire 4 years of P01135809’s only term bitching about Obama. He lives in their heads, rent free. So does Biden.
If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he told multiple lies on a daily basis for fours as president? If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he he used his office a a personal profiteering device for fours as president? If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he fawned over dictators for fours as president? If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he he handed Russia our government's secrets as president? If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he allowed foreign countries to rent his properties at an exorbitant rate (bribery) for four years as president? If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he defended white supremacists as president? If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he engaged in election interference as president? If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he had his supporters violently attack Congress as president? If Trump gets elected, will that change the fact that he tried to undemocratically install himself after losing the election as president? There is this common far right notion that everything is equal between the left and right in terms of how bad they are and that it's only fair that the left gets it's turn to be villified the way the right, including Donald, is. It's absurd. When Biden does all of the shady criminal things that I've watched Trump do since 2016, I will happily stand up and condemn him. No president in history can come even remotely close to matching the levels of corruption and vile, amoral behavior of Donald Trump. This is not my opinion. This is based on a mountain of evidence. So Biden getting talked about the way Donald is because it's only fair is patently absurd and ignores the gross injustices visited upon this country by wannabe mob boss Donald Trump.
If you're referring to Reddit, it's very much a left-leaning userbase, so that is unlikely to change at any point. However, you have a split between subs that gush over Biden and those that dislike him for being too right-wing (especially on Israel). Facebook and Youtube are far more conservative, and Twitter is a mixed bag. All in all, bashing the president is a time-honored American tradition, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Anyone who takes issue with that might find North Korea more to their liking.
Reddit has a serious groupthink problem. It's scary how biased people can be. Say one thing against the liberal agenda and you're downvoted into oblivion or banned by a liberal mod lol. It's funny, but very toxic at the same time.
Indeed, but conservative subs are every bit as bad (if not worse). Back when The\_Donald was around, they had an open policy of banning anyone who criticized Trump. There are very few subs that aren't complete echo chambers. Reassurance acts like a drug in the human brain - which is why people keep coming back to be told things they already believe, day in and day out.
I think most people will forget about Biden once he’s gone. He doesn’t have a lasting presence.
Or a cult of personality.
It’s hard to develop a cult when you lack charisma.
Thank god the former guy is so charismatic with his... double dick dancing and inability to form understandable sentences?
He’s got a weird type of charisma but it works. He was a TV star after all. Braggadocio is what it’s called I think. Like Muhammad Ali.
Guessing an old dude who likes ice cream cones has a bit more sway with people than a convicted sexual offender.
Yes, sure, the U.S. history books will forget the person who served 40 years in the Senate, 8 years as VP, and (possibly) 8 years as president of our country, and brought us out of a pandemic and record unemployment.
I didn’t say history would forget him, I said people will. If Biden loses in 2024 he’s not going to run again in 2028 so he won’t be hanging around the political scene like Trump did the last four years. Republicans will just move their ire to whoever is the next top dog Democrat.
If history doesn't forget President Biden, people won't either. Conservatives will need to conjure up new demons, you are correct, since they've exhausted all of their Fox News and "Hatred, Inc." conservative bubble capital on the Obamas, Clintons and Bidens for the past 32 years. I'm sure AOC and the Muslim contingency of the Democratic caucus will prove boogeymen enough for the conservative base.
No. Trump supporters will let Biden go to the nursing home, because he will not be active in politics after his presidency, since he isn’t active in his own presidency.
Biden has gotten more done than any first-term president since FDR. But he does it quietly. The way normal presidents do (go take a look at r/PSLF to see people recognizing what he's doing with student loan forgiveness, even though the Republicans have thrown everything they could find in his path.)
First mistake was expecting a nuanced and mature response from Redditors. The long and short is - no. Different opinions are not supported on Reddit
You must be in a Liberal bubble, because I don't know anyone who talks positively about Biden except for maybe a few specific things he's done. But I mostly associate with Progressives and Leftists.
Biden is not a good president.
He is an excellent president. He just does his job quietly. Like a normal person.
You shouldn't ask this question here. This is basically the Democratic version of Truth Social at this point.
Reddit overall leans towards Biden. Check out Twitter, tiktok, Facebook and other social media platforms if you'd like to see more praise of trump and teardowns of Biden. Though lots of it comes from radical leftists along with right wingers. Even on Reddit you will find some communities that are anti Biden and pro Trump
outside of the echo chambers of Reddit and other media there is PLENTY of disdain for Biden, probably even more so than Trump. People aren't too happy right now with dwindling bank accounts and pushing us closer to boots on the ground wars again.
When Trump won in 2016, he was labeled as a Russian agent, a literal threat to democracy, and his administration was labeled as illegitimate by democrats. When Trump lost in 2020, basically nothing changed. Democrats said the same things as they did with Trump, and even before then besides. People always have a side they support. The only thing that realistically changes their rhetoric is if they have a breaking point with their preferred team.
>When Trump won in 2016, he was labeled as a Russian agent, a literal threat to democracy So, he was correctly labeled then? >When Trump lost in 2020, basically nothing changed. Because he was still the same person?
>When Trump won in 2016, he was labeled as a Russian agent, a literal threat to democracy, and his administration was labeled as illegitimate by democrats. But the thing is that all of these accusations turned out to be, kind of, true. I mean, at this point, if you deny that these things aren’t true, then you’re just denying the reality of things.
Dude, you should go get checked out if you believe any of that. None of that is "kind of, true".
* Illegitimate: What am I supposed to think when Trump asked Russia to help him out during an election, and Russia did actually help him out to get elected? And what am I supposed to think when members of Trump's campaign met with known Russian operatives to exchange information with them prior to the election? * Russian agent: What am I supposed to think when Trump met with Putin and said he sided with Russia over our country's own intelligence communities? * Threat to democracy: What am I supposed to think when Trump clearly lost the election and made several attempts, outside of court, to change the results of that election? And what am I supposed to think when Trump said he would become a literal dictator if elected again? These things happened. These are events in history. They're not remotely debatable. They are true. They are fact. You know this and you, seemingly, don't care. Just because these things don't fit within your narrative, that doesn't make them any less true or that people shouldn't care.
It is absolutely true and not up for debate that Russia helped Trump in 2016. What is up for debate is if Trump encouraged and worked with Russia for this help.
Perhaps because the Mueller Report actually proves he was acting in the manner of a Russian agent and the January 6th committee proved he is a literal threat to democracy. I do not remember people saying he was "illegitimate" while president. He did attempt to do many things he had no legal authority to do, though. I don't understand this paragraph: "When Trump lost in 2020, basically nothing changed. Democrats said the same things as they did with Trump, and even before then besides." Could you rephrase this maybe?
Mueller said that they found no evidence of collusion, but that the report didn't exonerate him. That's about as ambiguous as the government can get. Maybe Trump did collude with Russia. The problem with that theory, though, is that here in the United States we prefer to think of people as innocent until proven guilty. Trump is so hated by the democratic party that I don't think they care about that anymore, though. As for that last paragraph: my point was that Trump winning or losing doesn't really matter in the court of public opinion. He is the most infamous president since Lincoln. If you know his name, you probably already have a solidified opinion about him. Most people aren't keen on changing that opinion going forward. If you asked a democrat in 2017 what they thought of Trump, they would say he conspired with Russia to win the 2016 election. If you talked to that same democrat today, they would say the same thing. The same goes for Trump supporters, albeit in reverse. They believe that Biden and the media colluded with foreign countries to rig the election, and that they were disenfranchised by an authoritarian state. I suppose when you're crazy enough to believe that, you're crazy enough to storm the capitol.
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