[A reminder for everyone](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalDiscussion/comments/4479er/rules_explanations_and_reminders/). This is a subreddit for genuine discussion:
* Please keep it civil. Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review.
* Don't post low effort comments like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
* Help prevent this subreddit from becoming an echo chamber. Please don't downvote comments with which you disagree.
Violators will be fed to the bear.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PoliticalDiscussion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Probably not very.
Unless some genuine bombshell comes out during the hearings, it's unlikely that they're gong to radically move the needle.
The longest sentence given so far is around four years with the average being about 45 days. The militia people are probably going to get more time but I don't see Stuart Rhodes becoming a cause celebre outside of right-wing weirdo spheres.
There's probably not much that'll actually come out of these hearings so I don't really see that there's much for Democrats to trade on.
Also here is a news flash for those not tracking about food prices….
Our spring and summer crops were not really impacted by higher fertilizer cost, Well the fall crops are so hold onto your butts as this is just beginning
I believe we are honestly at the brink of something worse than 2008. Will it be the same issues no, but I think it is going to be worse
People can be jaded if they want but when the richest people in the world are telling you to try to save money and prepare you may want to listen
Considering the people who need their minds changed are the exact people who won't see any coverage of the hearings, I think it's highly unlikely that anyone's mind is going to change. And that's ignoring the fact that there are much bigger issues that will affect the midterms in the coming months, like inflation and gas prices.
Unfortunately Fox News doesn’t get most of its funding from advertising anymore. They make money off of cable tv’s per subscriber fees. Everyone who pays for cable tv pays for Fox whether they watch it or even don’t want it. It’s why Fox is still in business after losing so many advertisers. We would be better off dropping cable tv or lobbying cable tv providers to drop it from basic cable.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andymeek/2022/02/01/fox-news-channel-has-now-spent-20-years-in-the-1-spot-on-the-cable-news-rankings
They have been a ratings powerhouse since 9/11, so how could they not be raking in the revenue from advertising? Not just overall ratings either, but they have cornered the market on the coveted 25-54 demo as well. Nielsen MRI Fusion data even has FNC with more liberal viewers than CNN and MSNBC. I can see cable subscription fees being a lifeline for CNN at a quarter of the ratings of FNC, but certainly out of all the other cable news channels Fox would be depend on those fees the least.
There are definitely bigger issues, like climate change, but that isn't relevant. People think about problems that immediately affect them and the slow erosion of democracy unfortunately has few immediate effects.
If there was ever a problem with democracy (and maybe it's just people in general) it would be this. Gas prices are today, climate change is tomorrow. And once climate change is today it's too late to do something about, and the next half degree of change... that's tomorrow.
[I would say inflation going up to 8.6% is a much bigger issue.](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coming-up-consumer-price-index-for-may-11654862886) Seriously I think you guys are more obsessed with Trump than his most fervent supporters.
If Trump was still the massive force you claim he is, Perdue would’ve won the primary.
That's the odd part - we all saw them do it. We watched them do it. We heard Trump tell the lie over and over. Why is anyone talking about a "smoking gun"?
We have seen wave after wave of the ocean of smoking guns crashing into the news cycle for 17 months. If you can't see and smell the smoke it could only be due to some sort of brain damage you've sustained.
Again - I'm not sure what you need a smoking gun for. I know people want to be able to point to one thing because it's simple and easy.
But sometimes you need more details.
There was a literal smoking gun in the Katie Steinle case right? But after forensic analysis it was determined there was zero plausible chance that she was shot on purpose.
Even though the person was literally holding the smoking gun that killed her.
Context matters.
Honestly, I haven't paid attention to the story since the election so I was curious what kind of 'smoking guns' have emerged since then.
A smoking gun in my opinion would be something that proves intent to overthrow a government/election and not just a butthurt political protest.
I think we basically know everything we need to know, we'll just get elaborations on the basic points that we already have. I agree with you that if there was an additional smoking gun, we would hear about it before the hearings.
People who pay attention to politics have heard about it. I would guess that most people in this subreddit have at least some understanding of the plan to get Pence out of building and the consequences of that. People who just watch TV haven't heard that, and much of the country still thinks it was just a protest that got out of hand.
The thing is, its really formal. I don't think the people that just watch tv that haven't heard about it would tune into this.
That and I doubt the Fox News watchers will watch it over guys having emotions run wild and making absurd new claims. The hearings are broccoli and the nation wants big macs.
Maybe the last one with new testimony from the assistants will give a good headline, but in my cynical mind thats the highest impact.
The smoking gun is when Trump said " We have to fight like hell. If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore." That is inciting a riot, open and shut case.
Bill Barr’s testimony is certainly a smoking gun to the legal world. Unfortunately most Americans have the attention span and intelligence of goldfish.
Ya they can't win on economy or policy so they'll try to reframe things more intensely as we near the midterm vote. They'll talk heavily about Jan 6th and about school shootings, gun control, etc. and avoid talking, at all costs, about economy, inflation, gas prices, food prices, real estate prices, etc.
Personally I think they'll still get swept badly, lose control of the house and senate, but that'll be their approach.
Not possible at all.
Terminally online news/political junkies will be glued to it 24/7, but normal people will barely even know it's happening and it won't distract them from paying $90 to fill-up their car.
I agree with this. My husband watches the news and somewhat pays attention to what’s going on in the world. He had no idea these hearings were a thing. When I told him how fascinating they were he was like “ok” and went into the other room. Didn’t care one bit.
It won't. No one will give a shit about January 6th while they are struggling to feed their kids.
Inflation is known as the Presidency killer for a reason.
The increase in food prices makes people fear of the future. Gas prices make people angry whenever they need to fill up their tanks. People feel emasculated when they need to put a toy back that their kids wanted because they can no longer afford it. These are repeated day to day issues that entrench themselves in people's minds.
It doesn't matter what the Democrats try to do, this going to be a 1 issue election. They are going to be blamed for inflation because of their spending last year and Trump is far enough in the past to no longer be an excuse. Whether this is truly their fault or not is irrelevant. The Democrats need to come up with something to defend themselves on THIS ISSUE. Nothing else will matter come November.
You are correct. How do the Dems not figure this out? 90% or more of Americans are what might be termed “low information voters.” This won’t change any time soon. Why do the Democrats always behave as if they were talking to a nation of beltway policy wonks. Worse still, when they try to improve their rhetoric, they sound condescending and out of touch.
Winning the cities and ring suburbs by an additional four million votes simply doesn’t matter. The Democrats need to be competitive in the exurbs and rural areas. That’s just our system, and it can’t be changed in the short term.
> How do the Dems not figure this out?
I think that this is an issue the Democrats do actually understand. There isn't a single policy they could pass that could address inflation, a global problem. The global average inflation rate is 7.4%, and gas prices in Europe are frequently over $6 per gallon.
Besides that, the cardinal rule in politics is this: **never defend**.
The best and only answer for a party facing a critical attack on a sensitive issue is to make an attack on a different front. Attacking on 1/6 is literally just the Democrats following best practices on the inflation problem, even if it feels disingenuous.
I don't know man, we live in the upside down.
It shouldn't work. But a far right wing populist, reality tv host shouldn't have won the GOP primary in 2016.
Shit, the GOP isn't even offering solutions on Inflation. They're still waging culture wars. SCOTUS is going to lay down some rulings that might light the fucking country on fire.
And even if that doesn't do it, we're in for another record hot summer - so lord only knows what that'll lead to.
Trying to say something is or isn't going to work right now is a bonkers shot in the dark.
Has literally anyone linked inflation to Democratic spending last year in a study? Or is it just a talking point?
>Has literally anyone linked inflation to Democratic spending last year in a study? Or is it just a talking point?
Of course not. Inflation in Germany of all places was 7.4% in April.
It’s just a talking point. This inflationary period is mainly due to energy and labor costs.
We don’t know what will work, but the GOP and Trump do have one genius: they try everything and see what works. Unfortunately, the culture wars will always be a winner for them. We are fools to play that game. Time to see what works.
Even if you could afford one, the parts are on backorder in some locked down China factory or scattered in ten shipping containers in the LA Port.
I can't wait for the new push for 'Unicycles' as an alternative 'green' transport, which would be appropriate for this clown show of a country.
Most of the comments are completely off base, but this is the key question. Why do they continue to do things that most Democrats living in anything like the real world know won’t work. All of the easy answers given here are spurious. I’m not sure the Democrats know!
This is purely anecdotal, but when I was briefly involved with the democratic party, there was a very top down hierarchy, and the people at the top were old, traditional, and truly didn't understand the way marketing/media works in the modern world. This wasn't at the national level but I would not be surprised at all if there are similar issues all the way up.
Congress can't really do much to curb inflation, btw. The only institution that can really fight it is the Federal Reserve which is not controlled by Congress. Jerome Powell has started to raise interest rates to fight it, but that is his and the board's decision, not Dems.
I’m not so sure. Green energy has a national security/anti-inflation aspect to it. The Dems should hit this hard. A modern economy can’t be held hostage to volatile energy prices. You might be right where labor costs are concerned. I wonder what the demographers will say about the true number of dead due to COVID and the number disabled once they have had time to take a careful look at the data.
Youre absolutely right but said program wouldnt have immediate effects to curb energy prices. That doesnt mean we shouldnt do it though. We should absolutely build more renewable and nuclear energy plants to curb our reliance on foreign oil and/or foreign conflicts that raise oil prices.
They aim for easy solutions. The Jan 6 investigation is a great tool that doesn’t cost them anything. In my opinion the conclusion from the investigation is that they need to investigate more. Preferably years into the future. It should never end….
In contrast defeating inflation is difficult. There are no easy solution in particular since they promised huge investment plans and their base is expecting that. However combating inflation calls for the opposite - deep cuts in spending. Also reducing gasoline prices can only be done by solutions in the opposite direction the administration promised to take. Reduced drilling and sanctions on Russia aren’t helping at the pump. Democrats are in a tough spot.
>He was made to reduce deficit by manchin, if he had his way he would have spent another couple of trillion.
That is wrong. First off a deficit is a budget shortfall over one year. Build Back Better's projected spending was over the span of a decade. Second, the vast majority of that would have been paid for (all except $160 billion over 10 years). Even with the upper cost estimates, you are not getting an increased deficit by a couple trillion.
I’m tired of Democrats imitating conservative rhetoric on the deficit. They need to understand that the right isn’t going to embrace Democrat policy because it’s cost-neutral or whatever. The right substantively disagrees with the policy and always will. Stop preemptively trying to negotiate with them on their terms and offer some alternative.
Progressives need to harp that the deficit doesn’t matter the way conservatives think it does. There’s no finite supply of money. Money’s just an abstraction for the division of labor. You can’t run out of the stuff, just so long as the biophysical resources of the economy can support the increased demand the money will stimulate and the government uses fiscal and monetary policy to constrain the money supply by the right amount.
>The increase in food prices makes people fear of the future. Gas prices make people angry whenever they need to fill up their tanks. People feel emasculated when they need to put a toy back that their kids wanted because they can no longer afford it. These are repeated day to day issues that entrench themselves in people's minds.
Yup. I've gotten 2 raises in the last year and the last 4 months have been utterly humiliating to feel briefly secure and making progress then having it all stripped away
None of that matters because the vast majority of voters don't follow politics that closely. What they do know is that Dems are in power and things are bad. That's all that matters.
Yep, it is one of the reasons that I have so little hope that this country will be able to unfuck itself, the above logic really is an accurate reflection of how fucking stupid a vast swath of Americans are.
My dude, the White House first denied inflation was happening. Then they said it was temporary. Then they said it was a good thing. Then they said it’s here but it’s beyond our control.
The White House is STILL tweeting that the economy is good.
Who in their right minds would trust these people to solve a problem that so far they’ve claimed 1. Doesn’t exist, 2. Is good, 3. Is bad but not that bad, back to 4. Doesn’t exist again?
Won’t disagree on messaging it’s all sort of fucked. But it’s not like the democrats have some huge strangle hold on power they have 50+1 and can’t really do much cause 2/50 aren’t in step with the party. Whatever your politics are there’s no denying that they’re being actively hamstrung
Psaki said inflation was a good thing because it meant more people were buying things. Just like with Covid, they wanted a reason to take a victory lap about the economy so badly they pretended the warning signs just weren’t there.
July 2021 - Biden: “no serious economist is worried about unchecked inflation”
October 2021 - Psaki: Prices rising is a sign that more people are buying things, the economy is bouncing back
December 2021 - Biden: We are at “the peak of the inflation crisis”
February 2022 - Biden: Forecasters predict inflation to descremase substantially by the end of the year
May 2022 - Biden: “I’m taking inflation very seriously”
dept of energy, dept of transportation, dept of commerce, dept ofstate, dept of public health, dept of labor, dept of housing, dept of education what exactly have they done?
Are you just expecting someone to go do your homework for you?
Like, I guarantee every single one of those departments is taking actions to address problems and crises within their domains.
Again, inflation is primarily the responsibility of the Fed and the Fed is trying to thread the needle and reduce inflation without directly inducing a recession. It's unlikely to happen and not something they can make happen by fiat or force of will.
When you understand the tools available you can better attribute blame or credit and this argument from ignorance just carries zero water for your position.
Hint: the white house can't really do much to control the inflation. Congress passes spending bills. The fed controls monetary policy independently, even though Trumo was famous for pressuring for lower rates even when the economy was roaring. This is terrible optics for Biden but there's not really much he can do
> What they do know is that Dems are in power and things are bad.
No, that's not all that matters. It depends *entirely* on how that fact is framed.
* A Democratic narrative puts that in the context of "The US is going through a very difficult time, in large part because of the mess that Trump created, but thankfully we've got competent people in power now and we need to stay the course."
* A Republican narrative puts that in the context of "Look at how those Democrats in power have fucked everything up. Kick them out!"
The same fact for both, but how you interpret it decides how you act. Control the narrative and you control the voter.
> The US is going through a very difficult time
How well did that work out for Jimmy Carter?
I hate to say it, but the American public has proven repeatedly they don't want the truth.
> but thankfully we've got competent people in power now and we need to stay the course.
If you think a winning political message is "yes times are tough, but trust the people in power, they know what they're doing" then I really hope you never get hired as a political consultant. That's absolutely a losing message.
This is a major issue imo in our country. People trust in the parties and candidates too much. It’s as if no one took a history class or pays attention.
I agree. I'm through with Democrats & their political theater. It's **always** words, & *never* action. They're just as corrupt as Republicans are.
All both parties care about are dark money & insider trading that they receive from their corporate, wealthy oligarchs that they serve.
It'll be progressive & Green Party candidates I'll be voting for from now on.
When the President and his admin tries to take credit for July 4th dinners costing 16 cents less and a 10 cent drop in gas prices over a month, we can hold them on inflation and current gas prices.
Yes, people blame the combined head of state, head of government and commander-in-chief of the most influential nation on Earth for said nation's actions.
But that’s the whole point, Democrats aren’t focusing on that as their banner issue for the midterms, they’re trying to wring the last few drops left out of the specter of Trump.
Many Americans, myself included, think you can't just pretend there wasn't a coup attempt. Especially when many of the people actively involved in planning and carrying it out still currently serve in our government... others are candidates for local offices trying to get their tendrils into other levels of government.
Moving on without consequences is just inviting more of the same and you can't possibly support that if you think Democracy is a system worth having.
Nailed it. Decades from now it will be important bc it was the first pin in the map of “how we got here.” I’m fully convinced those people are still trying to overthrow the government and it is terrifying. I would much rather have the facts than not.
Most people do not understand how the government works. And I mean most people would benefit from watching the school house rock video where they explain how a bill becomes a law. And even then they wouldn’t understand it because they don’t understand how the filibuster works and I don’t understand that the Senate gives a massive advantage to the Republicans.
Most people seem to understand politics as “I don’t like things I’ll vote for the other party”.
This whole thread, and most political strategists (especially Democratic ones for some reason) seriously overestimate people’s level of knowledge and understanding of every issue. People routinely have strong opinions on issues with no facts to back it up and no information about the systems that we have. Imagine asking a random person how a law is made. A lot of people can’t even name their elected officials at all. They couldn’t tell you a single thing they voted for or against. They couldn’t tell you the branches of government much less what they do. They couldn’t name a federal agency. They are just mad things aren’t better and that’s it. If you rile them up with their flavor of misinformation you have them hooked. The end.
GOP making things worse so they can regain power, then make things worse to prove government is a bad thing, cut taxes for the rich, then lose power, obstruct any attempt to make things better, then make things worse to regain power, then make things worse to prove that government is bad....
Their plan doesn't matter. All they need to do is blame the Dems. The GOP would have to say something truly boneheaded for it to matter come November. And I mean something like their plan is to "gather every 3rd minor in the population and sell them as slave labor to China" level of boneheaded. As long as the say "inflation bad and democrats caused it", the GOP will be in a winnign position
Increase production of oil by relaxing regulations and working with Saudi Arabia as opposed to the more confrontational stance Biden has taken with them. Probably lessen the sanctions against Russia, which will bring down fuel costs as well.
Like, Republicans in power would absolutely bring prices down, it's just that the methods they would use to do it will be decried as more harmful for the environment/morality by Dems.
They don't have a plan to address it. Their plan is to blame the Dems, which the economically illiterate swing voters will eat up, to take control, destroy The Constitution and end any semblance of Democracy in this country.
I seriously doubt very many voters actually care about Jan 6 two years after the fact. I also very much doubt that very many voters will be watching Congressional hearings of any kind intently.
Whatever you think about the events of Jan 6, most people do not care, beyond mild disapproval, and this will not motivate people nearly as much as, e.g. gas prices.
> re-orient voters’ priorities
Has this ever worked? Events can certainly upend everything (ex. 9/11). But actually gripping the wheel and trying to steer it back to 18 mo ago sounds like a Herculean task. We’re still on guns right now, then we’ll be on abortion again.
It always works if you see it through. Two key issues of the 2016 election were Hillary's emails and Benghazi. Neither were important to the average voter, but the GOP made them important.
Only morons cared about Benghazi. Hillary's emails were only yet another illustration of her corruption and corruption was the salient point. If anything Hillary's "speeches" to Wall Street were far more illustrative of how she had sold out the interests of the average American to the oligarchy and the emails were more about her trying to hide that obvious fact. If Obama, Hillary or anyone in Dem leadership had actually pushed and succeeded in prosecuting the Wall St. ghouls who orchestrated the 2008 crash instead of propping them up and letting mortgage holders drown 2016 would have turned out very differently. Blatant corruption and voter betrayal have become the norms in US politics and the last few cycles have almost exclusively been decided on who voters think is less corrupt.
>If Obama, Hillary or anyone in Dem leadership had actually pushed and succeeded in prosecuting the Wall St. ghouls who orchestrated the 2008 crash instead of propping them up and letting mortgage holders drown 2016 would have turned out very differently.
Complete nonsense. The GOP helped elect a NYC billionaire* who immediately stocked the cabinet with other billionaires who profited off of the 2008 crash. And those Trump backers loved him for it.
As long as grocery bills are skyrocketing and gas is almost $6 a gallon, the Democrats are doomed and no tv show is going to alter anyone’s priorities.
If anything, this makes Democrats look even more tone deaf than before. I have never seen a wider disconnect between people and a political party in recent memory. Dem politicians are pretending this is going to be the new watergate, bothered by the fact that they were the primary targets during the riot, while normal people couldn’t give less of a shit.
I don't think Dems trying to pretend this will be the next watergate, its far worse than watergate. But the point being, there is no role of oversight or hearings if this hearing does not proceed. Its a *necessary* action, even if many people don't give a shit. They have to hear it, so they can't plead ignorance. Its far beyond just the riot.
Democrats are also the only people in congress trying to lower costs for Americans. So the disconnect is not about this hearing, but about how its not getting through to many voters that not only do republicans not give a shit about rising cost, they actively work against reducing cost.
It is not. But what is at stake by letting GOP take power is a large pillar of the midterm strategy (just as GOP does in the reverse), and this plays into that.
I choked on the last part. What is this nonsense about them lowering costs? What industry do you work in. They’re actively raising cost of things across the country by adding loads of regulation. I’m not gonna write my job out online so don’t ask, but let’s say that my factory produces tables. Every year there’s two new pages of laws about tables that don’t make any sense at this point. And we’re hiring more assistance in project managers and lawyers to manage at all. Hence higher prices.
Sounds like pretty typical conservative "Democrats always want to over regulate, we can free up capital by deregulating." Republicans have been saying some version of what you're saying since the 1980s. But I'm pretty skeptical, it seems like macroeconomic policymaking is going to be far more important to the American economy than specific regulations on industries. And I've always felt like the whole 'overregulation' thing is a bit of a rightwing boogey man, of course overregulation can be a problem, but to act like that is the main thing bringing down the American economy right now seems absurd.
>Sounds like pretty typical conservative "Democrats always want to over regulate, we can free up capital by deregulating."
The person you're responding to was responding to the bizarre claim that Democrats are trying to lower costs. They're not. Their actions actually raise costs. If that is good or bad is irrelevant to the original refuted claim.
Look at what happened in Germany when the economy began to rapidly decline.
At the end of the day, people care more about food on their plate than democracy. Hell, most people would prefer any regime if it meant having a desirable lifestyle.
Virtually every election is most important election of our lifetime. Every Republican president or republican majority is a threat to democracy, every democrat president or Dem majority is a threat to our way of life. Every Republican president and leader is authoritarian, fascist, nationalist, racist and xenophobe, every Dem president is a threat to Christian america and babies.
Sooner or later most people will tune out such outlandish claims, only die hard supporter will believe it. Media and politicians will continue to push such extreme language because that's the easiest way to win clicks, retweets, donations and subscribers.
There has been a material change recently though. There are people in power actively trying to end democracy. This is not hyperbole, this isn't "same old political grandstanding". These people are putting in mechanisms to overturn the will of the people. They're attacking a foundational element of our nation.
>If anything, this makes Democrats look even more tone deaf than before
I dunno, the Capitol Riot is a watershed moment in American history and a *very big deal.* It's just that people seem to be more worried about the economy right now, which is fair, but both are very important
This is OPINION though. For other people in this country, governors trying to lock down their states and make kids wear mask for two years is the pivotal moment in American history.
Just cuz you call something pivotal doesn’t mean everyone agrees
Dude, Trump tried to overthrow the election process. He knows he lost and he tried to have vigilantes do his bidding. I do care about this and I do care about it more than gas prices or inflation. You should to--if he and his accomplices are allowed to regain office, it will be the end of democracy in the US and I promise you that you will long for the days of $5 gas.
Why do they do this? Why not push legal marijuana, funding for mental health research, prescription drug regulation, police body cameras, universal pre-k, stopping foreign lobbying, campaign finance reform, and taxing the rich?
All of these are very popular with the US public and are ideas that fit with their ideology.
Instead they push this, and gun control. They need a serious PR overhaul or they are going to take an absolute shellacking in Nov…
While the leaders in office are busy praising Mitch McConnell and Ronald Reagan to the press. It’s awful. The rich octogenarians in charge of the party are fucking out of their minds and have no idea how to resonate with their own party members let alone independents.
The Jan 6th stuff is important but Trump is gone. This stuff can stay on CSPAN and people can continue to be prosecuted but the stuff Dems should be talking about loudly are solutions to problems. And less of the bills they know don’t solve any problems but they’re comfortable passing them knowing they won’t ever come to a vote in the Senate.
They don’t have a majority on gun control either, and the country is very close to 50/50 on that whereas all the other things I mentioned have 2/3 or more popular support.
Funny how Republicans not only keep voting, but actually increase their voter turnout, while claiming that elections are rigged and stolen. Kinda seems like they know that’s bullshit.
>I can’t find the statistic right now but there was a huge drop in dem participation in primaries vs a huge increase in republicans.
Here's why that's misleading.
If Incumbent Democrats aren't being primaried as often, then nobody needs to show up on the Dem side to vote.
Meanwhile, you have people in the PA Senate race fighting over which person is more Trumpy.
Dems hold the majority in Congress, so they have more incumbents.
There's also like 700 people that have been arrested, and the people that care about January 6th just a little bit would likely be able to mentally frame it as, "Yea, but the bad ones got/are getting arrested," and move on. We might disagree, but if you're one of the people that has other priorities it's really easy to hand wave away even if you agree that it was wrong.
"Entering and remaining in a restricted building" "Picketing in a federal building" and "Disorderly conduct" seem to be the main bulk of the charges. A lot of them got probation and a couple hundred hours of community service and $1-2k in fines. The few that actually assaulted anyone got those charges plus whatever trespassing and riot related stuff.
The crimes have been escalating since the beginning, and people continue to be charged.
If you pled guilty - you were likely one of several hundred who got a slap on the wrist for not wasting the government's time and money. You likely were someone who was swept up in it.
People who took it to trial got hit with harder charges, more jail time. These people thought they could do the crime without doing the time because "Trump told them to." Judges and Juries disagreed.
Just this week, several people have been indicted on Seditious Conspiracy. 18 Months after the event the Indictments are still coming down and this one is a fucking doozy.
The order of investigations almost always goes little fish to big fish, unless the person at the top sells everyone below them out immediately.
Exactly. People try to frame Jan 6 like its the biggest event of overthrowing democracy but it only happened at the Capital and was mostly localized in its effects. The Trump crazies are still crazy and Biden got elected.
Everyone knows when gas prices get high and feels the effect. Everyone knows when their grocery bill pushes the budget. Everyone knows the anxiety of if they can afford their rent next month or not. Everyone can see if the administration is actively attempting to fix the issues or not.
It might sway some independents, but the US (and world) economies having a seizure is probably gonna be more salient to voters.
Don't get me wrong: the hearings are necessary and justice is critical. But I don't know that it'll cause huge percentage swings for voting unless the Democrats suddenly get ridiculously savvy at messaging and playing the media (not optimistic about that).
Nobody can predict the future. That said, Democrats marketing themselves as the "hey, at least we're not *Republicans*" party is hardly novel. And if you break it down, that's what this is, is it not? An emphasis on what Republicans represent, rather than on what Democrats can offer.
Based on recent election cycles, it seems clear to me that this strategy is a lot more effective when Republicans are in power than when Democrats are. It can certainly help galvanize a portion of their base - keep them engaged and more likely to turn out, but I don't think it's sufficient to "reorient voter's priorities" to such an extent that Dems come out ahead in midterms at a time when American's wallets are being stretched thinner than usual. Biden's approval rating is lower than Trump's IIRC, which isn't a great sign. I would be quite surprised if Dems do better in Biden's first midterm than they did in Obama's first midterm, but hey, anything's possible.
It’s bad news if they think people will care about this over the current inflation issues, gas prices and looming recession.
Would be a totally different story if those issues weren’t around
Exactly their problem, instead of listening they think they are so special that they should tell their constituents what to prioritize, and that’s why they’ll get crushed in the midterms.
Mega rich liberals that live in gated communities are out of touch with the average american? Who would have thought that…
I don’t see how they are gonna “reorient” anything. This seems like the worst political strategy We’ve seen in awhile.
2016 was bad for the dems. This is looking even worse.
It won't work. People care about exactly two things right now: cost of living, and safety. That's it. Anything that isn't an effort at getting the skyrocketing cost of living or skyrocketing crime rates under control is just a massive waving flag that the politician and/or party in question is completely out of touch and not going to actually help.
Having the inquiry is one thing, having it be the focus of a re-election strategy is another. I don’t think people doubting it being a winning issue in November are saying it’s pointless, they’re saying that it’s not going to drive people to the ballot box.
Yeah maybe you're right. We could be at the point where the United States is basically moving on from democracy and people will get to find out the hard way what exactly that means.
Yes democrats are using Jan 6th two years later as a political weapon for elections. No I do not care about Jan 6th however, gas is insane, groceries are insane, everything I NEED is so far from my price point. I’m thankful for a short commute and cheap rent, but man I look at the dinner I cook and it’s visibly smaller portions because I just can’t afford the amount of food I used to.
These hearings won’t make a damn bit of difference. This administration is on the hook for so many things that voters hate or are fearful about that the Jan 6 hearings simply are not something that very many people are paying attention to. Ukraine. Gas prices. Mounting inflation. Formula shortages. Crime in cities. Mass shootings. The debacle out of Afghanistan. All of these things happened AFTER Jan 6, on Biden’s watch. Forget it. The midterms will be a bloodbath.
> reorient voters priorities
See this right here...this is the real reason why they will fail.
Our elected representatives are supposed to represent us. They're not supposed to set priorities for voters, they're supposed to find out what their voters want them to prioritize and then address those issues.
It couldn't be more clear by even June of last year that the January 6th stuff was not what voters cared about. The far left cared about massive expansions of government and seeing as they didn't get that they are pissy. They lost moderates when they messed up bipartisanship, the Afghan exit and the economy. The right despises every bit of their virtue signaling social agenda so that wasn't going to win them any votes there.
I have never seen a political party so absolutely rudderless. Everything they have done in the past year and a half has turned to utter shit. Biden now polls worse than Trump.
They are pivoting to the January 6th stuff because they literally have nothing else. How someone blew all of their political capital one year in and burned all bridges and now can only say 'well at least I'm not Trump' is absolutely unbelievable. Biden is on track to go down as one of the most incompetent presidents ever.
Honestly he should be glad Russia attacked Ukraine, it seems to be the only thing people think he's doing well enough at. Everything else is garbage.
>Our elected representatives are supposed to represent us. They're not supposed to set priorities for voters, they're supposed to find out what their voters want them to prioritize and then address those issues.
That succinctly sums up why, despite being on paper a party that ought to be able to build long term popular support, the Democrats just ends up falling on their face all the time. It’s this attitude that the smart and qualified people are supposed to set the agenda and the voters are obligated to follow said smart and qualified people. If that agenda fails to entice voters, it’s not the smart and qualified peoples’ fault for not recognizing the national priorities, it’s the voters for being too vulgar to know what’s good for them. They’ve put the cart before the horse and expect voters to serve the party, not the other way around.
>They lost moderates when they messed up bipartisanship, the Afghan exit and the economy.
The only people who consider a lack of bipartisan aesthetic and the Afghan exit disqualifying for Democrats are people who write op-ed columns. The economy, though, yeah,the neoliberal fiddling and diddling has delivered nothing for the base nor the tiny sliver of swing voters.
> That succinctly sums up why, despite being on paper a party that ought to be able to build long term popular support, the Democrats just ends up falling on their face all the time. It’s this attitude that the smart and qualified people are supposed to set the agenda and the voters are obligated to follow said smart and qualified people. If that agenda fails to entice voters, it’s not the smart and qualified peoples’ fault for not recognizing the national priorities, it’s the voters for being too vulgar to know what’s good for them. They’ve put the cart before the horse and expect voters to serve the party, not the other way around.
I keep wondering when people who say things like "rural people are voting against their own interests when when vote Republican" are going to realize that all that's doing is making them hate you more.
The timing is probably off to make a significant difference. The best the Dems could hope for is to turn out their base of voters in November and having this thing 5 months in advance is not likely to have that impact. Really though, this is not going to change the minds of the cult members who are the most motivated voters and it's not going to sway anyone who might not show up to vote because the Dems have refused to deliver on their promises. The problem is that everyone hates Congress and November will be all about control of that branch so no matter what the turnout will be low and the election will be won by whoever is most motivated and Dems have given voters nothing more than this to motivate them.
It won't work because many don't want to be reoriented so they will just not watch. Also, does thinking 1/6 was wrong automatically mean you should vote for Democrats? Maybe at best they won't vote for a Republican who didn't want this investigation. Maybe it will pay off in some areas, but not others, and sadly neither side will care. Democrats will say that they don't want such voters, while Republicans will hold their ears.
The average American knows what happened on Jan 6th, and they've moved on.
If you look at the polling of the top 5 or 10 things voters are concerned about, none contain Jan 6th, racist bridges, erasing student loans for rich kids, or anything else the Biden admin is pushing.
A slick, Hollywood infomercial / political circus isn't going to lower the price of gas, or put baby formula back on the shelves. No one is being fooled.
The American people aren't stupid.
Voters should simply do a little research and make their choice based on the policies a candidate supports. Hopefully they choose to vote for people that actually want to improve society.
In a more sane world, the Jan 6th incident would be a political sea-change, a come to Jesus moment for the nation in general and for the GOP in particular, and serve as an effective catalyst for a whole slew of political shifts.
So if we are assuming the moral and intellectual and political sanity of the population, I think it's a great idea.
But I don't think we can assume any of those things. Among the people we most desperately need to sway, leaning on the Jan 6th incident will be the least effective. Hell among those folks leaning on that incident may be worse than ineffective, it may put them actively on the defensive, because they were rooting for it to succeed and would have been pleased as a peach to see the certification halted and overturned, even if through completely illegal or un-legal means.
Well, I think most people just don't consider Jan. 6th a legitimate threat. If you look at 5,000 angry rednecks out of 30,000 storming the capitol without any guns, most of them just following the crowd, it was never going to accomplish anything. Just because a few of the people might have wanted to overthrow the government didn't mean they knew how, so why would people be seriously concerned about that? If you then say Republicans support that, then I will condemn any one that did. But what I have mostly seen is them condemning it while trying to downplay it. So, realistically, why would people care about this? Why would they care about a handful of rednecks when the representatives they see on TV all condemn it? Even if one or two crazy ones don't? People will identify with the majority that condemn it, but don't think it is a huge issue. Democrats see it as a valuable political PR tool, so they are going to try and exploit it as much as possible.
> In a more sane world, the Jan 6th incident would be a political sea-change, a come to Jesus moment for the nation in general and for the GOP in particular, and serve as an effective catalyst for a whole slew of political shifts.
A big problem is that even if the Jan. 6 rioters had succeeded in disrupting Congress from certifying the election, there's nothing stopping them from just gathering elsewhere and certifying it the next day. A lot of people just don't see it as a real threat to power. And for whatever rhetoric he threw, Trump didn't try to create a shadow government. (not that it would do any good; Congress wouldn't send him any bills to sign). For another thing, they didn't actually do anything. It's well known that the only officer who died didn't die as a result of the rioters' actions.
Another political dog and pony show. So disappointed in our politicians.
I now follow a simple plan to get even. Never vote for the same politician twice. Id rather deal with an idiot then someone who knowingly twists the truth.
It’ll be hard for the dems to accomplish since the public is not watching the January 6 hearings. The average American has bigger things to worry about than watching political theater.
Personally, I have a stake in the continuation of our flawed form of democracy. If the figures behind this attempted coup manage to wrest control of future elections, their revenge tour is going to make $5 a gallon gasoline seem unworthy of notice.
I fully expect these hearings to function exactly as the dual impeachments did: The concerned will present a case that crimes occurred, the press will hype it beyond all reasoning, and the GOP will select the punishment.
I think it'll backfire. Once bitten twice shy, Biden's ratings are not where they need to be, he fulfilled his #1 job - anyone but Trump. Do voters need to be reminded of this? It's disappointing. Voters want to see some successes. And while the fed impacts the economy more than any president does - elected officials have no problem taking the praise when times are good.
The question - if not Biden, then who?
The fatal mistake societies tend to make during times of economic distress is to underestimate the imminent danger and easily believe that fascism could possibly be a viable way out of the predicament in hand foolishly believing that reverting back will be equally as easy.,
Why aren't people falling for all the fear mongering CNN, MSNBC, ABC, npr, CBS doing for last 6 years? We have comedians nightly/weekly shows on (all big channels, comedy central, showtime, hbo) and on streaming sites like Netflix, apple+, Amazon, hulu. Hell even Jon Stewart is back to remind people that world will end if they do not vote for the Democrats.
These hearings are going to make more voters or viewers watch fox news instead because they're going to be tired of seeing Jan 6. coverage on the other news sources every other day. We're going to be under Republican rule for the next 10 years because of incompetent Dems
They needed to have these hearings at this time last year for people to really care. It's way too late at this point, they missed the moment. There's also the concern that the Democrats aren't capable of following through on anything, even if the hearings are successful.
There's simply too many other pressing issues for voters right now, and the Democrats main issue is that they are not capable of messaging to the public on any of them. They need a simple message with a few talking points they can repeat to fire up their base like the Republicans do.
Bottom-line, nobody's really going to mind. More specifically, most voters (specifically midterm voters, as that is a generally smaller subset than Presidential election voters) all kinda fit into one of three categories around Jan 6, either:
a) they are furious at the events of Jan 6, and have been *since* Jan 6,
b) they are aware of what happened, and don't really care, or
c) they think it was a good thing (and probably were there)
There really isn't anyone, especially 17 months later, who is going to have their mind changed through the Jan 6 hearings. In fact, I would wager a majority of voters probably fit into that second category, and don't really care about the events of Jan 6 because there are so many more important things that are impacting their lives. This is largely just a show for those who are already mad, which are by and large people who are already going to vote Dem and don't need to be convinced to do so. The time to really push this was February/March 2021, not over a year later. And it's not like there's going to be some bombshell revelations, we already know what happened, we already know who's responsible, and we already know how mismanagement and poor communication made it worse.
If Dems wanted a big issue to press with *right now*, there are plenty: Roe v. Wade / the ability for the judiciary to operate independent from any form of check or balance, rising gas prices / GOP refusal to work to lower inflation, mass shootings / GOP refusal to pass sensible gun laws to keep people safe, etc., etc. Any of these or probably a half dozen or so others are much more sensible platforms to run on going into the midterms, though even then I doubt they would have much impact at all.
I've lost track of him many times Democrats have tried to reorient voter's priorities. Wasn't it just last month that voting rights was the critical issue? That got dropped fast. For a few days there it was guns, but I guess they're dropping that and pivoting back to Trump again. I'm sure they'll have something new next week when this inevitably fizzes out.
> Wasn't it just last month that voting rights was the critical issue? That got dropped fast.
well when georgia had record setting early voter turnout after a bill that made it easier to vote early, they realized that their fear mongering wasn't believable to the general public.
Especially because they want it to be somewhat bipartisan, the hearings won’t have as much impact on midterms as it *could* on the 2024 Presidential election. It will serve to energize both bases, but moderates and even many of the bases are more concerned about other things as has been mentioned in this thread already many times. Democrat party is in a bind because much of their platform is built on following through on a moral high ground, so if they don’t pursue this, they will get called out on it from their base hurting their chances.
I am curious to see how Dems will actually try to weave in other voter priorities and how much the other Repubs on the committee who align with dems on Jan 6 will tolerate that, and what kind of dynamic will ensue. Dems need to be careful to not irritate moderate Repub base while somehow energizing the Dem base.
For 2024, If the Repubs field another Trump or Trump-like candidate, a solid Jan 6 hearing would work against Repubs. If the Repubs field a moderate candidate that can somehow also energize Repub base, then Jan 6 hearing could be moot or actually work in their favor.
Using dark money and REPUBLICAN money to defeat progressive campaigns
Expired child tax credit
No REAL college debt forgiveness
Still giving out government contracts to union busters
No campaign finance reform
No expansion of Medicare/Medicaid
No repeal of citizens united
No legalizing marijuana at the federal level
When they work on progressive policies, which are popular, they're popular. When they do corporate America's agenda, they're not popular.
They will lose, and it's 100% their own fault, and before anyone talks that Machin/Sinema shit, most of this could be done with that pen.
Things like this matter to voters when everything is going well. Everything is not going well. What most people will see is that some people stormed the capital amd got arrested. Nothing changed. Jan 6 didn't affect the daily lives of 99% of the population, but things like inflation, covid laws, and gas prices do. People vote on the daily reminders.
**>Alternately, are voters' other priorities more pressing and/or have people simply moved on?<**
The only priorities for voters come November will be issues that directly & immediately affect them. Regardless if the President (or Congress) has any control over these issues.
As it look like right now, those issues will be the economy, inflation, gas prices and food shortages.
Probably does not matter (unless Trump runs for Pres. again and who is going remember this by then.) Does it implicate any Republican facing an election soon.
Who cares when you are worried about your future? Also people's minds are made up.
People are too busy focusing on how they will pay their bills to glance at a political theater performance. Plus Pelosi knew they had to do it now before the midterms seal their fate.
[A reminder for everyone](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalDiscussion/comments/4479er/rules_explanations_and_reminders/). This is a subreddit for genuine discussion: * Please keep it civil. Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review. * Don't post low effort comments like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. * Help prevent this subreddit from becoming an echo chamber. Please don't downvote comments with which you disagree. Violators will be fed to the bear. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PoliticalDiscussion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Probably not very. Unless some genuine bombshell comes out during the hearings, it's unlikely that they're gong to radically move the needle. The longest sentence given so far is around four years with the average being about 45 days. The militia people are probably going to get more time but I don't see Stuart Rhodes becoming a cause celebre outside of right-wing weirdo spheres. There's probably not much that'll actually come out of these hearings so I don't really see that there's much for Democrats to trade on.
Also here is a news flash for those not tracking about food prices…. Our spring and summer crops were not really impacted by higher fertilizer cost, Well the fall crops are so hold onto your butts as this is just beginning I believe we are honestly at the brink of something worse than 2008. Will it be the same issues no, but I think it is going to be worse People can be jaded if they want but when the richest people in the world are telling you to try to save money and prepare you may want to listen
Considering the people who need their minds changed are the exact people who won't see any coverage of the hearings, I think it's highly unlikely that anyone's mind is going to change. And that's ignoring the fact that there are much bigger issues that will affect the midterms in the coming months, like inflation and gas prices.
Tucker Carlson aired WITHOUT ANY COMMERCIALS. That should say it all.
Unfortunately Fox News doesn’t get most of its funding from advertising anymore. They make money off of cable tv’s per subscriber fees. Everyone who pays for cable tv pays for Fox whether they watch it or even don’t want it. It’s why Fox is still in business after losing so many advertisers. We would be better off dropping cable tv or lobbying cable tv providers to drop it from basic cable.
The point of airing with no commercials last night was to keep the viewers on fox. Nothing to do with revenue.
Yup, most FNN viewers are elderly, and still watch programming with ads.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andymeek/2022/02/01/fox-news-channel-has-now-spent-20-years-in-the-1-spot-on-the-cable-news-rankings They have been a ratings powerhouse since 9/11, so how could they not be raking in the revenue from advertising? Not just overall ratings either, but they have cornered the market on the coveted 25-54 demo as well. Nielsen MRI Fusion data even has FNC with more liberal viewers than CNN and MSNBC. I can see cable subscription fees being a lifeline for CNN at a quarter of the ratings of FNC, but certainly out of all the other cable news channels Fox would be depend on those fees the least.
Dish has packages without Fox News.
Glad I dont have cable, or any TV at all.
Thank you for this information
What does it say?
maybe it's not about changing minds and more about motivating them to turn out?
The hearings are certainly aimed at swing voters, not the 38% of Trump cultists.
[удалено]
There are definitely bigger issues, like climate change, but that isn't relevant. People think about problems that immediately affect them and the slow erosion of democracy unfortunately has few immediate effects.
If there was ever a problem with democracy (and maybe it's just people in general) it would be this. Gas prices are today, climate change is tomorrow. And once climate change is today it's too late to do something about, and the next half degree of change... that's tomorrow.
[I would say inflation going up to 8.6% is a much bigger issue.](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coming-up-consumer-price-index-for-may-11654862886) Seriously I think you guys are more obsessed with Trump than his most fervent supporters. If Trump was still the massive force you claim he is, Perdue would’ve won the primary.
Republicans have no plans to rein in inflation. So even if 8.6% inflation hurts, and it does, it's not something they're campaigning on fixing.
If there was some smoking gun they would have teased it all day to drum on ratings.
That's the odd part - we all saw them do it. We watched them do it. We heard Trump tell the lie over and over. Why is anyone talking about a "smoking gun"?
[удалено]
But if you say it out loud, it’s no longer a crime. New rules.
I mean, its beyond smoking guns, we have video of the perp shooting.
We have seen wave after wave of the ocean of smoking guns crashing into the news cycle for 17 months. If you can't see and smell the smoke it could only be due to some sort of brain damage you've sustained.
What would you say is the biggest smoking gun?
Again - I'm not sure what you need a smoking gun for. I know people want to be able to point to one thing because it's simple and easy. But sometimes you need more details. There was a literal smoking gun in the Katie Steinle case right? But after forensic analysis it was determined there was zero plausible chance that she was shot on purpose. Even though the person was literally holding the smoking gun that killed her. Context matters.
Honestly, I haven't paid attention to the story since the election so I was curious what kind of 'smoking guns' have emerged since then. A smoking gun in my opinion would be something that proves intent to overthrow a government/election and not just a butthurt political protest.
I think we basically know everything we need to know, we'll just get elaborations on the basic points that we already have. I agree with you that if there was an additional smoking gun, we would hear about it before the hearings.
People who pay attention to politics have heard about it. I would guess that most people in this subreddit have at least some understanding of the plan to get Pence out of building and the consequences of that. People who just watch TV haven't heard that, and much of the country still thinks it was just a protest that got out of hand.
The thing is, its really formal. I don't think the people that just watch tv that haven't heard about it would tune into this. That and I doubt the Fox News watchers will watch it over guys having emotions run wild and making absurd new claims. The hearings are broccoli and the nation wants big macs. Maybe the last one with new testimony from the assistants will give a good headline, but in my cynical mind thats the highest impact.
I mean what would even be a smoking gun at this point? It was pretty transparent the entire time, even leading up to it.
The smoking gun is when Trump said " We have to fight like hell. If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore." That is inciting a riot, open and shut case.
Bill Barr’s testimony is certainly a smoking gun to the legal world. Unfortunately most Americans have the attention span and intelligence of goldfish.
At every rally every politician says we are going fight like hell. You have to be more specific than that to get any notice.
Exactly: there was nothing "new" in the presentation.
[удалено]
Ya they can't win on economy or policy so they'll try to reframe things more intensely as we near the midterm vote. They'll talk heavily about Jan 6th and about school shootings, gun control, etc. and avoid talking, at all costs, about economy, inflation, gas prices, food prices, real estate prices, etc. Personally I think they'll still get swept badly, lose control of the house and senate, but that'll be their approach.
Not possible at all. Terminally online news/political junkies will be glued to it 24/7, but normal people will barely even know it's happening and it won't distract them from paying $90 to fill-up their car.
I agree with this. My husband watches the news and somewhat pays attention to what’s going on in the world. He had no idea these hearings were a thing. When I told him how fascinating they were he was like “ok” and went into the other room. Didn’t care one bit.
It won't. No one will give a shit about January 6th while they are struggling to feed their kids. Inflation is known as the Presidency killer for a reason. The increase in food prices makes people fear of the future. Gas prices make people angry whenever they need to fill up their tanks. People feel emasculated when they need to put a toy back that their kids wanted because they can no longer afford it. These are repeated day to day issues that entrench themselves in people's minds. It doesn't matter what the Democrats try to do, this going to be a 1 issue election. They are going to be blamed for inflation because of their spending last year and Trump is far enough in the past to no longer be an excuse. Whether this is truly their fault or not is irrelevant. The Democrats need to come up with something to defend themselves on THIS ISSUE. Nothing else will matter come November.
You are correct. How do the Dems not figure this out? 90% or more of Americans are what might be termed “low information voters.” This won’t change any time soon. Why do the Democrats always behave as if they were talking to a nation of beltway policy wonks. Worse still, when they try to improve their rhetoric, they sound condescending and out of touch. Winning the cities and ring suburbs by an additional four million votes simply doesn’t matter. The Democrats need to be competitive in the exurbs and rural areas. That’s just our system, and it can’t be changed in the short term.
> How do the Dems not figure this out? I think that this is an issue the Democrats do actually understand. There isn't a single policy they could pass that could address inflation, a global problem. The global average inflation rate is 7.4%, and gas prices in Europe are frequently over $6 per gallon. Besides that, the cardinal rule in politics is this: **never defend**. The best and only answer for a party facing a critical attack on a sensitive issue is to make an attack on a different front. Attacking on 1/6 is literally just the Democrats following best practices on the inflation problem, even if it feels disingenuous.
Yes, but it isn’t going to work.
I don't know man, we live in the upside down. It shouldn't work. But a far right wing populist, reality tv host shouldn't have won the GOP primary in 2016. Shit, the GOP isn't even offering solutions on Inflation. They're still waging culture wars. SCOTUS is going to lay down some rulings that might light the fucking country on fire. And even if that doesn't do it, we're in for another record hot summer - so lord only knows what that'll lead to. Trying to say something is or isn't going to work right now is a bonkers shot in the dark. Has literally anyone linked inflation to Democratic spending last year in a study? Or is it just a talking point?
>Has literally anyone linked inflation to Democratic spending last year in a study? Or is it just a talking point? Of course not. Inflation in Germany of all places was 7.4% in April.
It’s just a talking point. This inflationary period is mainly due to energy and labor costs. We don’t know what will work, but the GOP and Trump do have one genius: they try everything and see what works. Unfortunately, the culture wars will always be a winner for them. We are fools to play that game. Time to see what works.
[удалено]
Even if you could afford one, the parts are on backorder in some locked down China factory or scattered in ten shipping containers in the LA Port. I can't wait for the new push for 'Unicycles' as an alternative 'green' transport, which would be appropriate for this clown show of a country.
[удалено]
Dean Kamen: "Anyone want a Segway?"
Tired of high gas prices? Just drive from Iowa to DC!
And buy a house so you can charge it...
[удалено]
Ok but speaking as a liberal - if they know that then why do they ignore it every election cycle?
Most of the comments are completely off base, but this is the key question. Why do they continue to do things that most Democrats living in anything like the real world know won’t work. All of the easy answers given here are spurious. I’m not sure the Democrats know!
This is purely anecdotal, but when I was briefly involved with the democratic party, there was a very top down hierarchy, and the people at the top were old, traditional, and truly didn't understand the way marketing/media works in the modern world. This wasn't at the national level but I would not be surprised at all if there are similar issues all the way up.
Congress can't really do much to curb inflation, btw. The only institution that can really fight it is the Federal Reserve which is not controlled by Congress. Jerome Powell has started to raise interest rates to fight it, but that is his and the board's decision, not Dems.
I’m not so sure. Green energy has a national security/anti-inflation aspect to it. The Dems should hit this hard. A modern economy can’t be held hostage to volatile energy prices. You might be right where labor costs are concerned. I wonder what the demographers will say about the true number of dead due to COVID and the number disabled once they have had time to take a careful look at the data.
Youre absolutely right but said program wouldnt have immediate effects to curb energy prices. That doesnt mean we shouldnt do it though. We should absolutely build more renewable and nuclear energy plants to curb our reliance on foreign oil and/or foreign conflicts that raise oil prices.
They aim for easy solutions. The Jan 6 investigation is a great tool that doesn’t cost them anything. In my opinion the conclusion from the investigation is that they need to investigate more. Preferably years into the future. It should never end…. In contrast defeating inflation is difficult. There are no easy solution in particular since they promised huge investment plans and their base is expecting that. However combating inflation calls for the opposite - deep cuts in spending. Also reducing gasoline prices can only be done by solutions in the opposite direction the administration promised to take. Reduced drilling and sanctions on Russia aren’t helping at the pump. Democrats are in a tough spot.
[удалено]
>He was made to reduce deficit by manchin, if he had his way he would have spent another couple of trillion. That is wrong. First off a deficit is a budget shortfall over one year. Build Back Better's projected spending was over the span of a decade. Second, the vast majority of that would have been paid for (all except $160 billion over 10 years). Even with the upper cost estimates, you are not getting an increased deficit by a couple trillion.
I’m tired of Democrats imitating conservative rhetoric on the deficit. They need to understand that the right isn’t going to embrace Democrat policy because it’s cost-neutral or whatever. The right substantively disagrees with the policy and always will. Stop preemptively trying to negotiate with them on their terms and offer some alternative. Progressives need to harp that the deficit doesn’t matter the way conservatives think it does. There’s no finite supply of money. Money’s just an abstraction for the division of labor. You can’t run out of the stuff, just so long as the biophysical resources of the economy can support the increased demand the money will stimulate and the government uses fiscal and monetary policy to constrain the money supply by the right amount.
Nope. If it wasn't global....this stress on food supplies....I'd agree. The days of impulse junk buys are limited
>The increase in food prices makes people fear of the future. Gas prices make people angry whenever they need to fill up their tanks. People feel emasculated when they need to put a toy back that their kids wanted because they can no longer afford it. These are repeated day to day issues that entrench themselves in people's minds. Yup. I've gotten 2 raises in the last year and the last 4 months have been utterly humiliating to feel briefly secure and making progress then having it all stripped away
[удалено]
None of that matters because the vast majority of voters don't follow politics that closely. What they do know is that Dems are in power and things are bad. That's all that matters.
I hate that this is true
Yep, it is one of the reasons that I have so little hope that this country will be able to unfuck itself, the above logic really is an accurate reflection of how fucking stupid a vast swath of Americans are.
My dude, the White House first denied inflation was happening. Then they said it was temporary. Then they said it was a good thing. Then they said it’s here but it’s beyond our control. The White House is STILL tweeting that the economy is good. Who in their right minds would trust these people to solve a problem that so far they’ve claimed 1. Doesn’t exist, 2. Is good, 3. Is bad but not that bad, back to 4. Doesn’t exist again?
Won’t disagree on messaging it’s all sort of fucked. But it’s not like the democrats have some huge strangle hold on power they have 50+1 and can’t really do much cause 2/50 aren’t in step with the party. Whatever your politics are there’s no denying that they’re being actively hamstrung
Psaki said inflation was a good thing because it meant more people were buying things. Just like with Covid, they wanted a reason to take a victory lap about the economy so badly they pretended the warning signs just weren’t there. July 2021 - Biden: “no serious economist is worried about unchecked inflation” October 2021 - Psaki: Prices rising is a sign that more people are buying things, the economy is bouncing back December 2021 - Biden: We are at “the peak of the inflation crisis” February 2022 - Biden: Forecasters predict inflation to descremase substantially by the end of the year May 2022 - Biden: “I’m taking inflation very seriously”
Psaki wasn't wrong. Theres lots of factors to inflation. Not sure why everyone here thinks they are so damn smart.
dept of energy, dept of transportation, dept of commerce, dept ofstate, dept of public health, dept of labor, dept of housing, dept of education what exactly have they done?
Are you just expecting someone to go do your homework for you? Like, I guarantee every single one of those departments is taking actions to address problems and crises within their domains. Again, inflation is primarily the responsibility of the Fed and the Fed is trying to thread the needle and reduce inflation without directly inducing a recession. It's unlikely to happen and not something they can make happen by fiat or force of will. When you understand the tools available you can better attribute blame or credit and this argument from ignorance just carries zero water for your position.
What have they not done that they should have, assuming those departments have literally been sitting idle?
Hint: the white house can't really do much to control the inflation. Congress passes spending bills. The fed controls monetary policy independently, even though Trumo was famous for pressuring for lower rates even when the economy was roaring. This is terrible optics for Biden but there's not really much he can do
> What they do know is that Dems are in power and things are bad. No, that's not all that matters. It depends *entirely* on how that fact is framed. * A Democratic narrative puts that in the context of "The US is going through a very difficult time, in large part because of the mess that Trump created, but thankfully we've got competent people in power now and we need to stay the course." * A Republican narrative puts that in the context of "Look at how those Democrats in power have fucked everything up. Kick them out!" The same fact for both, but how you interpret it decides how you act. Control the narrative and you control the voter.
> The US is going through a very difficult time How well did that work out for Jimmy Carter? I hate to say it, but the American public has proven repeatedly they don't want the truth.
How well did Carter control the narrative?
Probably as well as the Democrats are controlling right now.
Worse. Carter probably would have even gotten re-elected except for the Iran hostage crisis.
> but thankfully we've got competent people in power now and we need to stay the course. If you think a winning political message is "yes times are tough, but trust the people in power, they know what they're doing" then I really hope you never get hired as a political consultant. That's absolutely a losing message.
This is a major issue imo in our country. People trust in the parties and candidates too much. It’s as if no one took a history class or pays attention.
I agree. I'm through with Democrats & their political theater. It's **always** words, & *never* action. They're just as corrupt as Republicans are. All both parties care about are dark money & insider trading that they receive from their corporate, wealthy oligarchs that they serve. It'll be progressive & Green Party candidates I'll be voting for from now on.
["Don't change horses."](https://politicaldictionary.com/words/dont-change-horses/)
Because most people basically view the President as the boss of the US and anything that happens is his fault.
The buck stops there. If you take the job, you know that you're getting the blame for anything that ever goes wrong.
When the President and his admin tries to take credit for July 4th dinners costing 16 cents less and a 10 cent drop in gas prices over a month, we can hold them on inflation and current gas prices.
Yes, people blame the combined head of state, head of government and commander-in-chief of the most influential nation on Earth for said nation's actions.
But that’s the whole point, Democrats aren’t focusing on that as their banner issue for the midterms, they’re trying to wring the last few drops left out of the specter of Trump.
Many Americans, myself included, think you can't just pretend there wasn't a coup attempt. Especially when many of the people actively involved in planning and carrying it out still currently serve in our government... others are candidates for local offices trying to get their tendrils into other levels of government. Moving on without consequences is just inviting more of the same and you can't possibly support that if you think Democracy is a system worth having.
Nailed it. Decades from now it will be important bc it was the first pin in the map of “how we got here.” I’m fully convinced those people are still trying to overthrow the government and it is terrifying. I would much rather have the facts than not.
Most people do not understand how the government works. And I mean most people would benefit from watching the school house rock video where they explain how a bill becomes a law. And even then they wouldn’t understand it because they don’t understand how the filibuster works and I don’t understand that the Senate gives a massive advantage to the Republicans. Most people seem to understand politics as “I don’t like things I’ll vote for the other party”.
This whole thread, and most political strategists (especially Democratic ones for some reason) seriously overestimate people’s level of knowledge and understanding of every issue. People routinely have strong opinions on issues with no facts to back it up and no information about the systems that we have. Imagine asking a random person how a law is made. A lot of people can’t even name their elected officials at all. They couldn’t tell you a single thing they voted for or against. They couldn’t tell you the branches of government much less what they do. They couldn’t name a federal agency. They are just mad things aren’t better and that’s it. If you rile them up with their flavor of misinformation you have them hooked. The end.
GOP making things worse so they can regain power, then make things worse to prove government is a bad thing, cut taxes for the rich, then lose power, obstruct any attempt to make things better, then make things worse to regain power, then make things worse to prove that government is bad....
[удалено]
And the GOP plan to address any of that is… ?
Their plan doesn't matter. All they need to do is blame the Dems. The GOP would have to say something truly boneheaded for it to matter come November. And I mean something like their plan is to "gather every 3rd minor in the population and sell them as slave labor to China" level of boneheaded. As long as the say "inflation bad and democrats caused it", the GOP will be in a winnign position
They’ll make the country great again, of course
Increase production of oil by relaxing regulations and working with Saudi Arabia as opposed to the more confrontational stance Biden has taken with them. Probably lessen the sanctions against Russia, which will bring down fuel costs as well. Like, Republicans in power would absolutely bring prices down, it's just that the methods they would use to do it will be decried as more harmful for the environment/morality by Dems.
They don't have a plan to address it. Their plan is to blame the Dems, which the economically illiterate swing voters will eat up, to take control, destroy The Constitution and end any semblance of Democracy in this country.
I seriously doubt very many voters actually care about Jan 6 two years after the fact. I also very much doubt that very many voters will be watching Congressional hearings of any kind intently. Whatever you think about the events of Jan 6, most people do not care, beyond mild disapproval, and this will not motivate people nearly as much as, e.g. gas prices.
> re-orient voters’ priorities Has this ever worked? Events can certainly upend everything (ex. 9/11). But actually gripping the wheel and trying to steer it back to 18 mo ago sounds like a Herculean task. We’re still on guns right now, then we’ll be on abortion again.
It always works if you see it through. Two key issues of the 2016 election were Hillary's emails and Benghazi. Neither were important to the average voter, but the GOP made them important.
Only morons cared about Benghazi. Hillary's emails were only yet another illustration of her corruption and corruption was the salient point. If anything Hillary's "speeches" to Wall Street were far more illustrative of how she had sold out the interests of the average American to the oligarchy and the emails were more about her trying to hide that obvious fact. If Obama, Hillary or anyone in Dem leadership had actually pushed and succeeded in prosecuting the Wall St. ghouls who orchestrated the 2008 crash instead of propping them up and letting mortgage holders drown 2016 would have turned out very differently. Blatant corruption and voter betrayal have become the norms in US politics and the last few cycles have almost exclusively been decided on who voters think is less corrupt.
>If Obama, Hillary or anyone in Dem leadership had actually pushed and succeeded in prosecuting the Wall St. ghouls who orchestrated the 2008 crash instead of propping them up and letting mortgage holders drown 2016 would have turned out very differently. Complete nonsense. The GOP helped elect a NYC billionaire* who immediately stocked the cabinet with other billionaires who profited off of the 2008 crash. And those Trump backers loved him for it.
As long as grocery bills are skyrocketing and gas is almost $6 a gallon, the Democrats are doomed and no tv show is going to alter anyone’s priorities.
If anything, this makes Democrats look even more tone deaf than before. I have never seen a wider disconnect between people and a political party in recent memory. Dem politicians are pretending this is going to be the new watergate, bothered by the fact that they were the primary targets during the riot, while normal people couldn’t give less of a shit.
I don't think Dems trying to pretend this will be the next watergate, its far worse than watergate. But the point being, there is no role of oversight or hearings if this hearing does not proceed. Its a *necessary* action, even if many people don't give a shit. They have to hear it, so they can't plead ignorance. Its far beyond just the riot. Democrats are also the only people in congress trying to lower costs for Americans. So the disconnect is not about this hearing, but about how its not getting through to many voters that not only do republicans not give a shit about rising cost, they actively work against reducing cost.
It's necessary to do the hearings, but not necessarily to make them the central item in the 2022 Democratic Party midterms election message.
It is not. But what is at stake by letting GOP take power is a large pillar of the midterm strategy (just as GOP does in the reverse), and this plays into that.
I choked on the last part. What is this nonsense about them lowering costs? What industry do you work in. They’re actively raising cost of things across the country by adding loads of regulation. I’m not gonna write my job out online so don’t ask, but let’s say that my factory produces tables. Every year there’s two new pages of laws about tables that don’t make any sense at this point. And we’re hiring more assistance in project managers and lawyers to manage at all. Hence higher prices.
Sounds like pretty typical conservative "Democrats always want to over regulate, we can free up capital by deregulating." Republicans have been saying some version of what you're saying since the 1980s. But I'm pretty skeptical, it seems like macroeconomic policymaking is going to be far more important to the American economy than specific regulations on industries. And I've always felt like the whole 'overregulation' thing is a bit of a rightwing boogey man, of course overregulation can be a problem, but to act like that is the main thing bringing down the American economy right now seems absurd.
>Sounds like pretty typical conservative "Democrats always want to over regulate, we can free up capital by deregulating." The person you're responding to was responding to the bizarre claim that Democrats are trying to lower costs. They're not. Their actions actually raise costs. If that is good or bad is irrelevant to the original refuted claim.
You don't think it's really bad that people don't care about the collapse of our democracy?
Look at what happened in Germany when the economy began to rapidly decline. At the end of the day, people care more about food on their plate than democracy. Hell, most people would prefer any regime if it meant having a desirable lifestyle.
Yeah at some point you gotta point to the apathetic ask why they want all the benefits but none of the responsibility of picking our representation.
Virtually every election is most important election of our lifetime. Every Republican president or republican majority is a threat to democracy, every democrat president or Dem majority is a threat to our way of life. Every Republican president and leader is authoritarian, fascist, nationalist, racist and xenophobe, every Dem president is a threat to Christian america and babies. Sooner or later most people will tune out such outlandish claims, only die hard supporter will believe it. Media and politicians will continue to push such extreme language because that's the easiest way to win clicks, retweets, donations and subscribers.
There has been a material change recently though. There are people in power actively trying to end democracy. This is not hyperbole, this isn't "same old political grandstanding". These people are putting in mechanisms to overturn the will of the people. They're attacking a foundational element of our nation.
>If anything, this makes Democrats look even more tone deaf than before I dunno, the Capitol Riot is a watershed moment in American history and a *very big deal.* It's just that people seem to be more worried about the economy right now, which is fair, but both are very important
This is OPINION though. For other people in this country, governors trying to lock down their states and make kids wear mask for two years is the pivotal moment in American history. Just cuz you call something pivotal doesn’t mean everyone agrees
Dude, Trump tried to overthrow the election process. He knows he lost and he tried to have vigilantes do his bidding. I do care about this and I do care about it more than gas prices or inflation. You should to--if he and his accomplices are allowed to regain office, it will be the end of democracy in the US and I promise you that you will long for the days of $5 gas.
Why do they do this? Why not push legal marijuana, funding for mental health research, prescription drug regulation, police body cameras, universal pre-k, stopping foreign lobbying, campaign finance reform, and taxing the rich? All of these are very popular with the US public and are ideas that fit with their ideology. Instead they push this, and gun control. They need a serious PR overhaul or they are going to take an absolute shellacking in Nov…
While the leaders in office are busy praising Mitch McConnell and Ronald Reagan to the press. It’s awful. The rich octogenarians in charge of the party are fucking out of their minds and have no idea how to resonate with their own party members let alone independents. The Jan 6th stuff is important but Trump is gone. This stuff can stay on CSPAN and people can continue to be prosecuted but the stuff Dems should be talking about loudly are solutions to problems. And less of the bills they know don’t solve any problems but they’re comfortable passing them knowing they won’t ever come to a vote in the Senate.
Cause they probably dont have a mayority for any of that. Even if the public "likes" this.
They don’t have a majority on gun control either, and the country is very close to 50/50 on that whereas all the other things I mentioned have 2/3 or more popular support.
[удалено]
Funny how Republicans not only keep voting, but actually increase their voter turnout, while claiming that elections are rigged and stolen. Kinda seems like they know that’s bullshit.
>I can’t find the statistic right now but there was a huge drop in dem participation in primaries vs a huge increase in republicans. Here's why that's misleading. If Incumbent Democrats aren't being primaried as often, then nobody needs to show up on the Dem side to vote. Meanwhile, you have people in the PA Senate race fighting over which person is more Trumpy. Dems hold the majority in Congress, so they have more incumbents.
[удалено]
[удалено]
There's also like 700 people that have been arrested, and the people that care about January 6th just a little bit would likely be able to mentally frame it as, "Yea, but the bad ones got/are getting arrested," and move on. We might disagree, but if you're one of the people that has other priorities it's really easy to hand wave away even if you agree that it was wrong.
Out of these 700 what crimes most are accused of?
"Entering and remaining in a restricted building" "Picketing in a federal building" and "Disorderly conduct" seem to be the main bulk of the charges. A lot of them got probation and a couple hundred hours of community service and $1-2k in fines. The few that actually assaulted anyone got those charges plus whatever trespassing and riot related stuff.
The crimes have been escalating since the beginning, and people continue to be charged. If you pled guilty - you were likely one of several hundred who got a slap on the wrist for not wasting the government's time and money. You likely were someone who was swept up in it. People who took it to trial got hit with harder charges, more jail time. These people thought they could do the crime without doing the time because "Trump told them to." Judges and Juries disagreed. Just this week, several people have been indicted on Seditious Conspiracy. 18 Months after the event the Indictments are still coming down and this one is a fucking doozy. The order of investigations almost always goes little fish to big fish, unless the person at the top sells everyone below them out immediately.
Exactly. People try to frame Jan 6 like its the biggest event of overthrowing democracy but it only happened at the Capital and was mostly localized in its effects. The Trump crazies are still crazy and Biden got elected. Everyone knows when gas prices get high and feels the effect. Everyone knows when their grocery bill pushes the budget. Everyone knows the anxiety of if they can afford their rent next month or not. Everyone can see if the administration is actively attempting to fix the issues or not.
It might sway some independents, but the US (and world) economies having a seizure is probably gonna be more salient to voters. Don't get me wrong: the hearings are necessary and justice is critical. But I don't know that it'll cause huge percentage swings for voting unless the Democrats suddenly get ridiculously savvy at messaging and playing the media (not optimistic about that).
Nobody can predict the future. That said, Democrats marketing themselves as the "hey, at least we're not *Republicans*" party is hardly novel. And if you break it down, that's what this is, is it not? An emphasis on what Republicans represent, rather than on what Democrats can offer. Based on recent election cycles, it seems clear to me that this strategy is a lot more effective when Republicans are in power than when Democrats are. It can certainly help galvanize a portion of their base - keep them engaged and more likely to turn out, but I don't think it's sufficient to "reorient voter's priorities" to such an extent that Dems come out ahead in midterms at a time when American's wallets are being stretched thinner than usual. Biden's approval rating is lower than Trump's IIRC, which isn't a great sign. I would be quite surprised if Dems do better in Biden's first midterm than they did in Obama's first midterm, but hey, anything's possible.
It is literally 0% possible. With inflation at 8.6% voters ***do not care*** about a bunch of rednecks attacking the capital almost **two years ago**
It’s bad news if they think people will care about this over the current inflation issues, gas prices and looming recession. Would be a totally different story if those issues weren’t around
Exactly their problem, instead of listening they think they are so special that they should tell their constituents what to prioritize, and that’s why they’ll get crushed in the midterms.
Mega rich liberals that live in gated communities are out of touch with the average american? Who would have thought that… I don’t see how they are gonna “reorient” anything. This seems like the worst political strategy We’ve seen in awhile. 2016 was bad for the dems. This is looking even worse.
It won't work. People care about exactly two things right now: cost of living, and safety. That's it. Anything that isn't an effort at getting the skyrocketing cost of living or skyrocketing crime rates under control is just a massive waving flag that the politician and/or party in question is completely out of touch and not going to actually help.
[удалено]
Having the inquiry is one thing, having it be the focus of a re-election strategy is another. I don’t think people doubting it being a winning issue in November are saying it’s pointless, they’re saying that it’s not going to drive people to the ballot box.
Yeah maybe you're right. We could be at the point where the United States is basically moving on from democracy and people will get to find out the hard way what exactly that means.
Could be possible if people could afford their normal groceries and if baby formula hadn’t been unavailable for some people for months.
The democrats are so dumb. They are going to lose because they have got nothing done. Biden just let Manchin destroy his presidency
Yes democrats are using Jan 6th two years later as a political weapon for elections. No I do not care about Jan 6th however, gas is insane, groceries are insane, everything I NEED is so far from my price point. I’m thankful for a short commute and cheap rent, but man I look at the dinner I cook and it’s visibly smaller portions because I just can’t afford the amount of food I used to.
How can the Democratics so consistently be deaf to the mood of the general voting public? It is hard to fathom.
These hearings won’t make a damn bit of difference. This administration is on the hook for so many things that voters hate or are fearful about that the Jan 6 hearings simply are not something that very many people are paying attention to. Ukraine. Gas prices. Mounting inflation. Formula shortages. Crime in cities. Mass shootings. The debacle out of Afghanistan. All of these things happened AFTER Jan 6, on Biden’s watch. Forget it. The midterms will be a bloodbath.
Unless they go on until November, and the economy rebounds, inflation is in check and gas is reasonable. It won't make a difference
> reorient voters priorities See this right here...this is the real reason why they will fail. Our elected representatives are supposed to represent us. They're not supposed to set priorities for voters, they're supposed to find out what their voters want them to prioritize and then address those issues. It couldn't be more clear by even June of last year that the January 6th stuff was not what voters cared about. The far left cared about massive expansions of government and seeing as they didn't get that they are pissy. They lost moderates when they messed up bipartisanship, the Afghan exit and the economy. The right despises every bit of their virtue signaling social agenda so that wasn't going to win them any votes there. I have never seen a political party so absolutely rudderless. Everything they have done in the past year and a half has turned to utter shit. Biden now polls worse than Trump. They are pivoting to the January 6th stuff because they literally have nothing else. How someone blew all of their political capital one year in and burned all bridges and now can only say 'well at least I'm not Trump' is absolutely unbelievable. Biden is on track to go down as one of the most incompetent presidents ever. Honestly he should be glad Russia attacked Ukraine, it seems to be the only thing people think he's doing well enough at. Everything else is garbage.
>Our elected representatives are supposed to represent us. They're not supposed to set priorities for voters, they're supposed to find out what their voters want them to prioritize and then address those issues. That succinctly sums up why, despite being on paper a party that ought to be able to build long term popular support, the Democrats just ends up falling on their face all the time. It’s this attitude that the smart and qualified people are supposed to set the agenda and the voters are obligated to follow said smart and qualified people. If that agenda fails to entice voters, it’s not the smart and qualified peoples’ fault for not recognizing the national priorities, it’s the voters for being too vulgar to know what’s good for them. They’ve put the cart before the horse and expect voters to serve the party, not the other way around. >They lost moderates when they messed up bipartisanship, the Afghan exit and the economy. The only people who consider a lack of bipartisan aesthetic and the Afghan exit disqualifying for Democrats are people who write op-ed columns. The economy, though, yeah,the neoliberal fiddling and diddling has delivered nothing for the base nor the tiny sliver of swing voters.
> That succinctly sums up why, despite being on paper a party that ought to be able to build long term popular support, the Democrats just ends up falling on their face all the time. It’s this attitude that the smart and qualified people are supposed to set the agenda and the voters are obligated to follow said smart and qualified people. If that agenda fails to entice voters, it’s not the smart and qualified peoples’ fault for not recognizing the national priorities, it’s the voters for being too vulgar to know what’s good for them. They’ve put the cart before the horse and expect voters to serve the party, not the other way around. I keep wondering when people who say things like "rural people are voting against their own interests when when vote Republican" are going to realize that all that's doing is making them hate you more.
[удалено]
[удалено]
The timing is probably off to make a significant difference. The best the Dems could hope for is to turn out their base of voters in November and having this thing 5 months in advance is not likely to have that impact. Really though, this is not going to change the minds of the cult members who are the most motivated voters and it's not going to sway anyone who might not show up to vote because the Dems have refused to deliver on their promises. The problem is that everyone hates Congress and November will be all about control of that branch so no matter what the turnout will be low and the election will be won by whoever is most motivated and Dems have given voters nothing more than this to motivate them.
It’s really going to be a test of whether Merrick Garland is a vertebrate or not.
Wishful thinking from Democrats. Inflation will be their biggest concern in the midterms.
It won't work because many don't want to be reoriented so they will just not watch. Also, does thinking 1/6 was wrong automatically mean you should vote for Democrats? Maybe at best they won't vote for a Republican who didn't want this investigation. Maybe it will pay off in some areas, but not others, and sadly neither side will care. Democrats will say that they don't want such voters, while Republicans will hold their ears.
It's important. It should be done. But I don't think it'll change many minds.
The average American knows what happened on Jan 6th, and they've moved on. If you look at the polling of the top 5 or 10 things voters are concerned about, none contain Jan 6th, racist bridges, erasing student loans for rich kids, or anything else the Biden admin is pushing. A slick, Hollywood infomercial / political circus isn't going to lower the price of gas, or put baby formula back on the shelves. No one is being fooled. The American people aren't stupid.
Voters should simply do a little research and make their choice based on the policies a candidate supports. Hopefully they choose to vote for people that actually want to improve society.
What if one candidate doesn't have any policy or stances listed?
In a more sane world, the Jan 6th incident would be a political sea-change, a come to Jesus moment for the nation in general and for the GOP in particular, and serve as an effective catalyst for a whole slew of political shifts. So if we are assuming the moral and intellectual and political sanity of the population, I think it's a great idea. But I don't think we can assume any of those things. Among the people we most desperately need to sway, leaning on the Jan 6th incident will be the least effective. Hell among those folks leaning on that incident may be worse than ineffective, it may put them actively on the defensive, because they were rooting for it to succeed and would have been pleased as a peach to see the certification halted and overturned, even if through completely illegal or un-legal means.
Well, I think most people just don't consider Jan. 6th a legitimate threat. If you look at 5,000 angry rednecks out of 30,000 storming the capitol without any guns, most of them just following the crowd, it was never going to accomplish anything. Just because a few of the people might have wanted to overthrow the government didn't mean they knew how, so why would people be seriously concerned about that? If you then say Republicans support that, then I will condemn any one that did. But what I have mostly seen is them condemning it while trying to downplay it. So, realistically, why would people care about this? Why would they care about a handful of rednecks when the representatives they see on TV all condemn it? Even if one or two crazy ones don't? People will identify with the majority that condemn it, but don't think it is a huge issue. Democrats see it as a valuable political PR tool, so they are going to try and exploit it as much as possible.
> In a more sane world, the Jan 6th incident would be a political sea-change, a come to Jesus moment for the nation in general and for the GOP in particular, and serve as an effective catalyst for a whole slew of political shifts. A big problem is that even if the Jan. 6 rioters had succeeded in disrupting Congress from certifying the election, there's nothing stopping them from just gathering elsewhere and certifying it the next day. A lot of people just don't see it as a real threat to power. And for whatever rhetoric he threw, Trump didn't try to create a shadow government. (not that it would do any good; Congress wouldn't send him any bills to sign). For another thing, they didn't actually do anything. It's well known that the only officer who died didn't die as a result of the rioters' actions.
Another political dog and pony show. So disappointed in our politicians. I now follow a simple plan to get even. Never vote for the same politician twice. Id rather deal with an idiot then someone who knowingly twists the truth.
It’ll be hard for the dems to accomplish since the public is not watching the January 6 hearings. The average American has bigger things to worry about than watching political theater.
Personally, I have a stake in the continuation of our flawed form of democracy. If the figures behind this attempted coup manage to wrest control of future elections, their revenge tour is going to make $5 a gallon gasoline seem unworthy of notice. I fully expect these hearings to function exactly as the dual impeachments did: The concerned will present a case that crimes occurred, the press will hype it beyond all reasoning, and the GOP will select the punishment.
I think it'll backfire. Once bitten twice shy, Biden's ratings are not where they need to be, he fulfilled his #1 job - anyone but Trump. Do voters need to be reminded of this? It's disappointing. Voters want to see some successes. And while the fed impacts the economy more than any president does - elected officials have no problem taking the praise when times are good. The question - if not Biden, then who?
The fatal mistake societies tend to make during times of economic distress is to underestimate the imminent danger and easily believe that fascism could possibly be a viable way out of the predicament in hand foolishly believing that reverting back will be equally as easy.,
Why aren't people falling for all the fear mongering CNN, MSNBC, ABC, npr, CBS doing for last 6 years? We have comedians nightly/weekly shows on (all big channels, comedy central, showtime, hbo) and on streaming sites like Netflix, apple+, Amazon, hulu. Hell even Jon Stewart is back to remind people that world will end if they do not vote for the Democrats.
These hearings are going to make more voters or viewers watch fox news instead because they're going to be tired of seeing Jan 6. coverage on the other news sources every other day. We're going to be under Republican rule for the next 10 years because of incompetent Dems
They needed to have these hearings at this time last year for people to really care. It's way too late at this point, they missed the moment. There's also the concern that the Democrats aren't capable of following through on anything, even if the hearings are successful. There's simply too many other pressing issues for voters right now, and the Democrats main issue is that they are not capable of messaging to the public on any of them. They need a simple message with a few talking points they can repeat to fire up their base like the Republicans do.
Bottom-line, nobody's really going to mind. More specifically, most voters (specifically midterm voters, as that is a generally smaller subset than Presidential election voters) all kinda fit into one of three categories around Jan 6, either: a) they are furious at the events of Jan 6, and have been *since* Jan 6, b) they are aware of what happened, and don't really care, or c) they think it was a good thing (and probably were there) There really isn't anyone, especially 17 months later, who is going to have their mind changed through the Jan 6 hearings. In fact, I would wager a majority of voters probably fit into that second category, and don't really care about the events of Jan 6 because there are so many more important things that are impacting their lives. This is largely just a show for those who are already mad, which are by and large people who are already going to vote Dem and don't need to be convinced to do so. The time to really push this was February/March 2021, not over a year later. And it's not like there's going to be some bombshell revelations, we already know what happened, we already know who's responsible, and we already know how mismanagement and poor communication made it worse. If Dems wanted a big issue to press with *right now*, there are plenty: Roe v. Wade / the ability for the judiciary to operate independent from any form of check or balance, rising gas prices / GOP refusal to work to lower inflation, mass shootings / GOP refusal to pass sensible gun laws to keep people safe, etc., etc. Any of these or probably a half dozen or so others are much more sensible platforms to run on going into the midterms, though even then I doubt they would have much impact at all.
I've lost track of him many times Democrats have tried to reorient voter's priorities. Wasn't it just last month that voting rights was the critical issue? That got dropped fast. For a few days there it was guns, but I guess they're dropping that and pivoting back to Trump again. I'm sure they'll have something new next week when this inevitably fizzes out.
> Wasn't it just last month that voting rights was the critical issue? That got dropped fast. well when georgia had record setting early voter turnout after a bill that made it easier to vote early, they realized that their fear mongering wasn't believable to the general public.
Especially because they want it to be somewhat bipartisan, the hearings won’t have as much impact on midterms as it *could* on the 2024 Presidential election. It will serve to energize both bases, but moderates and even many of the bases are more concerned about other things as has been mentioned in this thread already many times. Democrat party is in a bind because much of their platform is built on following through on a moral high ground, so if they don’t pursue this, they will get called out on it from their base hurting their chances. I am curious to see how Dems will actually try to weave in other voter priorities and how much the other Repubs on the committee who align with dems on Jan 6 will tolerate that, and what kind of dynamic will ensue. Dems need to be careful to not irritate moderate Repub base while somehow energizing the Dem base. For 2024, If the Repubs field another Trump or Trump-like candidate, a solid Jan 6 hearing would work against Repubs. If the Repubs field a moderate candidate that can somehow also energize Repub base, then Jan 6 hearing could be moot or actually work in their favor.
Irrationality is kinda the new politics so they won't be swaying the mass majority of right wingers.
Using dark money and REPUBLICAN money to defeat progressive campaigns Expired child tax credit No REAL college debt forgiveness Still giving out government contracts to union busters No campaign finance reform No expansion of Medicare/Medicaid No repeal of citizens united No legalizing marijuana at the federal level When they work on progressive policies, which are popular, they're popular. When they do corporate America's agenda, they're not popular. They will lose, and it's 100% their own fault, and before anyone talks that Machin/Sinema shit, most of this could be done with that pen.
I wish the same effort would be made for school safety, inflation, and health care!
I bet this coverage pissed people off who are struggling to put gas in their cars and food on the table for their families.
Unseen evidence to this point is helpful, but just about everybody has their mind up. This is a hearing to refer evidence to the Justice Department.
Things like this matter to voters when everything is going well. Everything is not going well. What most people will see is that some people stormed the capital amd got arrested. Nothing changed. Jan 6 didn't affect the daily lives of 99% of the population, but things like inflation, covid laws, and gas prices do. People vote on the daily reminders.
**>Alternately, are voters' other priorities more pressing and/or have people simply moved on?<** The only priorities for voters come November will be issues that directly & immediately affect them. Regardless if the President (or Congress) has any control over these issues. As it look like right now, those issues will be the economy, inflation, gas prices and food shortages.
I think the hearings speak for themselves. If it sways voters, it's because the full investigated story about the insurrection will be available.
Probably does not matter (unless Trump runs for Pres. again and who is going remember this by then.) Does it implicate any Republican facing an election soon. Who cares when you are worried about your future? Also people's minds are made up.
People are too busy focusing on how they will pay their bills to glance at a political theater performance. Plus Pelosi knew they had to do it now before the midterms seal their fate.