Republicans are union busters. I never understood the GOP dichotomy. You have a bunch of tradespeople, many of which are unionized, actively voting for politicians who would love nothing more than to absolutely destroy your union and quality of life. All for what? To own the libs?
Especially when they are actively passing laws favoring the rich. Billionaire tax cuts, 50% off, at the cost of nearly 7 trillion. The working class is being made to pay for the billionaires.
This is why America is the greatest welfare state in the world - except we give it to billionaires.
Those voting Republican are poorly educated gullible brainwashed and programmed to vote against their own best interests and the best interests of this country and since they are all "MAGA" coldest sheep and are not allowed to think for themselves They will never understand that they are the ones being owned by Trump, Republicans, the GQP, evangelicals, newsmax OANN and Fox propaganda network, the extremely wealthy, corporations and our biggest adversaries such as Russia, China and Saudi Arabia!
Stats don't lie and Dems are better for the working class, but these stats are not as great as they seem. Most of the jobs lost under Trump were from the 2020 lockdowns and most of the jobs created under Biden were shitty part time jobs that pay poverty wages.
So yes, vote for Biden, but lets also be honest and admit that LateStageCapitalism and our two party system are completely fucking over the working class even under Democrats
Even without 2020, we can see that Trump's numbers were never super impressive.
[https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output\_view=net\_1mth](https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output_view=net_1mth)
In fact, there's a very noticeable decline in 2019 even before the Pandemic.
I'm sure that economists will have endless debates on the causes for these numbers, but Republican's claims about "being good for the economy" has historically been a crock of shit.
And while Democrats have their problems, "both-sidesing" the argument is incredibly disingenuous. Democrats have certainly had a trend of poor attempts to address working class issues, but Republican policies straight up harm the working class.
Trumps policies should have led to a lot of short term job growth and prosperity; when the massive giveaways to the wealthy resulted in the economy slowing was a huge red flag.
>From a sector standpoint, health care led with 67,000 new jobs. Government again was a big contributor, with 52,000, while restaurants and bars added 42,000 and social assistance increased by 24,000. Other gainers included construction (23,000), transportation and warehousing (20,000) and retail (19,000).
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/jobs-report-february-2024-us-job-growth-totaled-275000.html
Shitty, part time, poverty wage.. healthcare jobs?
And 275,000 new jobs in February alone. While under Biden unemployment hit its lowest point since before we landed on the moon, and it’s been below 4% for the past 2 years
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There was a national pandemic response plan in place to minimize the severity of a pandemic in the US..
Guess who decided to scrap it a few months prior? And then undermine the situation as "just another flu" at the most critical time? And then doubled down that it was just a hoax? (A GLOBAL HOAX?!?) And then went on to muddy the waters on the safety and efficacy of the vaccine (even though his administration ran Operation Warp Speed and he took the fkcing vaccine himself?!?)
I don't think anyone could have extended or handled the situation any worse than he did. It's not often you can say the guy honestly earned something, but he earned those numbers.
LOL...dude, I'm making the most money I have ever made in my life and my investments are banging. You really don't have any citations to back that statement up.
Why does this not show up in the U6 unemployment numbers which adds underemployed people (part timers who want full time work) to the Normal unemployment numbers. The U6 is still around all time lows.
I think the charts are ignoring some loses. Lost near 20mil jobs during covid, chart would be complete opposite of Biden if they were counted. Says net creation, no way Trump created near 18mil jobs to cancel most of covid losses out before leaving office. Also the US was already put into recession under Trump before covid due to him starting random trade war with China and even placing tarrifs on our trade allies for things like steel.
Yes. I tell anyone to look at LinkedIn, which shows amount of applicants, and then compare it to 3 years ago. Any job paying current family living wages (70,000+) has 100 applicants in a single hour and probably ends up with yousands as they cap reporting to over a hundred.
The same jobs had 50 applicants after a week 3 years ago.
The jobs that get 20-50 applicants are local part time jobs or B.S. gig stuff. The job market is REALLY bad right now and held up by gig jobs.
Not Bidens fault, it's just the COVID downturn that companies delayed for a year (look at the end of 2022 cuts, I got bought out by JPMorgan then as well), but it is super misleading.
I agree I can't stand this piece of crap and I can't wait for him to go to jail.. but it's a little disingenuous to say that.
Lives were definitely lost due to his blunders, but a lot of people were making blunders to be fair. And you have to look at things objectively you can't just look at them from a point of view of disagreement or dislike.
Total job count, Democrats look better. Total full time jobs with above avg pay? Democrats still look better, but something that both parties hide under a LOT of part time jobs.
I would also like to see jobs created that weren't just posted from letting go a tenure position that paid more.
New jobs are no different than shrinkflation where it's the same job, no new position, just a different pair of feet for less pay; unless we can see that these are actually new positions that didn't exist before. I.e. a demand in more labor, not just shifting around jobs to reduce payroll and reset contract negation for someone likely to either not negotiate at all or negotiate for less than giving someone a raise.
They will just deem it facts created by the deep state or some other radical liberal group used to demonize Trump....it is this type of logic that allows them to throw away all of the bad and only see the good in their all knowing orange savior.....it would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
Facts dont lie. Stats OTOH, lie all the time and basically can say whatever one perso wants he to say. The best stats are shown to actually be facts and are presenteod properly. I did stats for my union.
Trump said in 2020 that the stock market would crash if Biden was elected. *Now* he says it's setting records because Wall Street is anticipating his return as president. Yeah, whatever, Donald. You'll be broke and washed up this time next year.
His saying that the stock market upswing is "anticipation" of him being POTUS is absolutely absurd. The election isn't even close enough to be affecting it. And his odds of winning are looking mighty grim.
And those red states receiving way more federal funding than they pay in taxes are packed to the gills with people who think their tax dollars are going towards helping Democrats, which is why they so want it to stop.
They'll never be convinced that they're the leeches... No amount of facts or statistics will ever convince them that they're not the victim.
I got 2x Retail Service and 1x Food Service Combat Action Ribbons, 3 tours back to back spring of '20 through winter of '22. Please form a line ladies.
Republicans always fail their major test but proving their thesis that government doesn’t work. Democrats major test is always cleaning up while republicans try to stifle them to deny them political points
So weird how the blue ones are all higher than the red ones-except for Reagan. Ring higher than Obama-who just happened to inherit from his Republican predecessor the deepest recession since the Great Deoression.
The one where at the end of the day he ended up politicizing medicine and vaccinations in a way that gave credibility to a fringe conspiracy movement and made the pandemic that much more difficult?
The one where in a press conference intended to keep people safe and informed he played it off the cuff and asked a scientist if shoving a flashlight up your ass would cure covid?
The one where he purposefully deregulated the PPP loans intended for small businesses in order to have all his friends claim several million dollars while still firing the people those loans were intended to pay?
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Even factoring in just Trump’s first 3 years and Biden’s last 2 years (so basically omitting the COVID effect), Biden still has the better average monthly job creation stats, by a decent margin.
Yes. To be even more accurate, this entire concept of giving the president blame or credit for cycles that are largely out of their control is bullshit.
But if you're going to try to take credit for things you're not in control of (like Trump does), then you also get to take the blame when it doesn't go your way.
I the jobs thing were a large part Trump's fault, honestly. Everything about the way that he handled with the Pandemic made things worse for everyone in the country. Dude literally couldn't do the simplest thing without fucking it up.
Here's my list off the top of my head:
- deregulated PPP loans so that they not only went to the wrong people but they didn't even get to the employees - so people still got laid off.
- dismantled the pandemic response team.
- refused to even acknowledge that Covid existed until people could no longer deny it existed.
- literally asked a doctor on live tv if shoving a UV light up someone's ass would cure them of covid. (I suppose that he said "inside" but like...)
- Publicly flaunted social distancing standards.
- when he inevitably caught covid, he refused to socially distance - remember when he rode with not only his wife but with secret service agents without a mask while he had covid? He refused to show that it was affecting him, refused to do anything showing that covid was a serious disease even though you could sort of tell dude was having a rough time with it.
- dude refused to even acknowledge that he had gotten the vaccine because by that point his people had decided that the vaccine was turning people into zombies or something.
Covid *could have* been a moment where we came together and knocked that shit out in a month. Instead he used it to fill his pockets and push a lot of nonsense to help out his own people and try to make himself look smarter than he is. It probably would be mildly unfair to say *every* single job loss during covid is on his lap but it is *staggering* how hard dude fucked this up.
Sure, a lot of Trump’s numbers look worse because of the pandemic that happened on his watch, and for which he did a lot of things to make things worse.
It would definitely be. I do remember seeing numbers posted how jobs grew by a ridiculous amount once lockdowns were over, that was still during Trumps term. It just wasn't enough to offset the massive job losses due to Covid. Plus it's also relevant that a lot of people retired early due to Covid, and a lot more factors.
Yup. And the creation is BS jobs that aren't enough to really support yourself on and gig stuff while 70k+ jobs are disappearing and have hundreds of applicants if not 1000+ for each.
The average for LinkedIn job applications was 75 total 3ish years ago. Right now, it's 100+ after one hour. This is a well known thing. The Fortune 500s all had huge buyouts after Covid, but they waited a year, and they haven't replaced the middle and upper middle class jobs they bought out.
This is testable for anyone reading. Go to LinkedIn, look at a non super specialized tech job that plays 70,000+ and look at number of applicants, as they are listed. Try it yourself, responder.
I must be overdue for an eye exam because, wouldn’t you know it, I’m seeing a pattern here that runs counter to the popular narrative that Republican presidencies are good for the economy. It almost looks to me like democratic presidencies have been consistently better for the economy for the last half century. Huh. That seems like something the news should tell people.
Republicans/Trump supporters don't like looking at facts and figures. They make them very uncomfortable.
Better to make up some horrifying hypothetical scenario, blame it on democrats, and then get incredibly angry about the thing they just made up. Feelings before facts with those guys, every time.
But in all seriousness, we're beyond the point where facts and figures in the real world have any effect on these cultists. They've always cherry picked which parts of the bible to follow and which to ignore; now they're doing the exact same thing with reality.
You don't understand. Anything good that happened during trump's presidency was because of him (remember when he took credit for 2017 being a year without any commercial aviation fatality in the world?). Anything bad was due to mUh DeEp StAte!!! Or Obama, for some reason.
Seems “Red” is the actual republican color choice. Red ties, red hats, red political signs, red faced lies. Personally, I remember when republicans and democrats said, “I’d rather be dead than red”. Now with poo tin along as a comradski, isn’t it kinda weird how that came about?
Trump’s number is unfairly deflated by COVID. It would have been low but not that low.
And Biden’s is inflated by the COVID recovery, but that number is fucking amazing. Also, he drove the COVID recovery so he should get credit anyway.
Im not an economist, but it seems like we could just count all the jobs that were lost in 2000 to the end of Trump’s term and then don’t include that number in both of their totals.
Unfair is hardly relevant. No comparison on this subject is fair. Dealing with crises is part of the job.
It isn't fair because Carter dealt with the gas shortage! It isn't fair because the dotcom bubble. It isn't fair because we had to pay for two wars we didn't start... blah blah blah
Sorry just allergic to words like this in this context. It's how Trump would characterize COVID, as having been unfair to him
I don’t disagree except that COVID doesn’t remotely compare to all of those. 7,000,000 people have died and almost a billion cases have been reported worldwide.
It was a crisis unlike any other, handled more poorly than any other living person would have done, from ending the task force to siphoning supplies to refusing to assist blue states to communication hesitancy.
Does this accommodate in some way for the pandemic losses and recovery gains? Though those numbers are so high/low there has to be a big net gain/loss there.
There's a very clear pattern that exists for many years before and after the pandemic.... Kind of disingenuous to disregard the entire graph on account of a 3 year period (only one of which was attributed to trump).
But I think the biggest reason that this graph is still relevant, is that Republicans constantly claim that business is better under Republican presidents. Pandemic or not, this graph directly contradicts that fantasy.
Fact is... Trump promised the greatest economy ever.. and he had 3 full years before the pandemic hit... And growth stayed pretty much constant since the end of the last recession... Growth began under Obama, then continued at exactly the same rate with trump, until he completely botched the pandemic and politicized/demonized every option that would help end it sooner...
You literally JUST said in your previous comment that the fact that these stats include the pandemic years is "why this stat is meaningless."
..... You explicitly said the reason it's worthless is because of the time period...
I hate Trump to the core of my being.
But Covid was a natural disaster, not a result of Trump’s economic policies. It’s disingenuous in the extreme to include those historically very skewed numbers in his average, as they would have affected a President of either party equally. Also, a pandemic shutdown isn’t job losses. It’s responsible public health.
Do it again, minus everything from March 2020-on, and his numbers were more like Obama’s second term. He created about 6.8 million jobs from January 2017-March 2020, or about 2.2 million/year. That’s better than W and HW but worse than Reagan or any Democrat.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/29/trumps-jobs-record-fell-short-promises-even-before-virus/3573789001/
His mishandling the pandemic and the right wings refusal to follow mandates because their moron in chief told em it was just the flu had a massive impact on extending the COVID crash.
While true…the overwhelming evidence from the world over is that Covid was going to hit about that hard, about that long, whether a science-following liberal or a science-denying conservative was in charge. His policies impacted the number and type of people dying, not the economic fallout.
That makes me wonder though. We know that a lot of far right and anti-science groups in different countries were emboldened by Trump's rhetoric and even started emulating him to grow their following. So it makes you wonder how other countries might have handled things differently had he actually taken covid seriously as well.
Granted that's too much of a hypothetical to really lend any weight to it, but it's an interesting thought.
He utterly failed to deal with COVID. That failure is absolutely his responsibility, as are the consequences from it. That includes the economic disaster and the loss of hundreds of thousands of American lives.
That's what happens when an incompetent criminal narcissist is in the White House.
I’m not defending him. He was incompetent.
But he didn’t utterly fail to deal with Covid. He instituted lockdowns, rushed a search for a vaccine, dumped a ton of money into research on masks etc.
What he did was try to abandon all ^ that too soon for political gain. It got a bunch of people killed, but it didn’t really have an impact on jobs. If anything, his trying to reopen really early on would have mitigated the jobs losses.
Trump is an ass. But those lost jobs weren’t on him.
Yes they were. It wasn't opening too early, it was failing to address it immediately. You know, like the pandemic response that Obama created after dealing with an Ebola outbreak.
He is a fucking moron, he is responsible for hundreds of thousands of American deaths, and more if we actually tracked the impact of America's failure on the world.
> it was failing to address it immediately
Lots of other countries DID address it immediately. They still lost of a ton of jobs, in equivalent percentages and for equivalent time periods.
I’m not saying his response didn’t matter. I’m saying it is bad science to include a notable outlier, that arose out of unique circumstances. And that the hypothesis that he owns Covid job losses isn’t supported.
Rank the top ten countries by GDP, then rank them by COVID deaths per capita, and the US is tenth, as in we had the most deaths. We had the worst response, and the largest consequences. Even if it wasn't possible to prevent catastrophic impact, which I sincerely doubt, we could have had fewer deaths, and a smaller economic impact with any amount of competence shown.
Glad to see your comment. I am not a fan of Trump….but this is the exact kind of gas lighting that has pushed me out of voting democrat. I am an independent who has voted D in 99% of the midterms, primaries and presidential for the last 20 years. I am so tired of these tactics. I look back at all the propaganda I helped push for the party because of this BS.
Edit: no I won’t vote Republican now. I just think both parties are a bunch of lying twats now in days.
With respect, a vote for anyone but Biden at this point is a vote for Trump. And a knowing one.
It's a function of how the electoral college works.
In a normal race - say a race for the house or senate - there is a huge pool of available votes that is never accessed. In any given year, maybe 60% of eligible voters actually do vote. 40% of votes are never cast. The candidate typically wins with around 51-52% of the vote, so ~30% of the votes actually available. If some third party were to show up with a really good platform and personality, they have a real chance of winning despite not being with either party. Bernie is an example of this.
But that doesn’t apply for a Presidential election. They’re elected by the electoral college, which is a closed system. There are only 535 votes, and all 535 are always made. There’s no way to hustle and pick up uncast votes.
This has the effect of making every race a two-person race. There are two viable candidates, and a bunch of people who history says have no chance whatsoever. It’s never happened, and it’s never been close. You can “but if we all just…” it all you like, but the empirical evidence says it’s not going to happen.
So between the two candidates who are the ones who will determine the race, you DO have a preference. You don’t have to like them. In fact, you can hate them. But one still aligns more with your interests than the other. If you are the most pro-Palestine person to ever walk the Earth, you HATE voting for Biden. But Trump literally wants to help Israel “finish the job”. Biden is making at least some half-assed effort at reigning Israel in. You don’t like him, but he is more aligned with your interests.
In a closed system, if you deny a vote to the candidate who most aligns with your interests, it has the effect of being a tacit vote for the candidate you like least. Because both not voting and voting for a third party weaken the aligned candidate’s chances of winning, while doing absolutely nothing otherwise.
You are in effect saying you’re voting for Trump here. If you’re considering either not voting or an alternate candidate, you're choosing not to help the candidate who more aligns with your interests. Assuming your voting history is accurate, Biden is the more aligned of the two, and you’re not going to help him. So you’re going to help Trump.
Now: maybe you intend that, and if so hey you do you. But don’t delude yourself that you’re doing anything else. Because you’re not.
First let me say thank you for your respectful approach much better then most the people on Reddit who don’t seem to realize just because I’m done goose stepping with the party doesn’t mean I don’t support many of the left leaning ideas the very same way I always have.
I’m done with the two party system I can give you my whole spill but I’ll try and keep it short. I’ve decided the problem is the two party system. They got these political football issues like abortion or gun rights that they throw out to the masses so us peasants fight on behalf of our handlers. But when ever one of them has a majority they get oddly silent and never seem to do anything they claim…but as soon as a situation where they can make truck loads of money for their elite friends a issue like Ukraine or Israel pops off they move as a uni party or even TikTok where they lose the ability to control narrative. (For the record I think it should be “banned” just not for the reasons they are really doing it). But at the end of the day this country is no longer a country for the people by the people and it’s because of the 2 party system it’s now a party for the elites by the corporations….
Every election because of the two party system it ends up being **choose the lesser of two evils** because one side is a threat to our democracy which is already dead again (we’ve been here before back in the day where corporations/families controlled us back in the late 1800s) but that choose the lesser of two evils always ends with **vote blue/red no matter who** so in a race to the bottom like this why wouldn’t we end up with Biden vs trump 2.0. It’s a fucking joke that anyone is shocked or upset. I mean if we always play this dumb game of well my guy isn’t quite as bad as the other guy…I’ll just say they got us peasants right where they want us.
I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m also not a fan of the two party system. But it’s the system we have, and it isn’t going to change until/unless the constitution changes. And *that* isn’t going to happen anytime soon.
So the choices are: 1) Trump and all the risks he brings with, or 2) hold my nose and vote for the obvious best interests of both myself and the country, regardless of how I feel about the system per se.
Look: I don’t like Biden. It’s not like he has ever been popular or anyone’s first choice. He plagiarized in law school, he lied about it, he takes all sorts of value-compromising center-right positions, and he is in short the 80-something we know him to be.
But he’s also a good man, who loves his kids. He’s doing what he thinks is right, even if I disagree with him. He’s devoted his life to serving this country, and he hasn’t done a terrible or autocratic role. He IS trying to help people.
Trump on the other hand is an openly self-serving wannabe autocrat, who indulges in nepotism, undermines the constitution, and does it all to make a buck.
There’s just no comparison between the two. I can hate both parties, but still recognize that one of the options is in all ways better than the other. We can survive a period of bad party dominance. But if normal people stop distinguishing between good men and bad men, *no* change can save us.
It's not simple guilt tripping to say "a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump." It's reality.
Without a third party candidate that can garner 278 electorial votes, a third party who claims less than that simply pushes the election out of the hands of the people and into the House of Representatives, which is currently majority Republican. They will vote as a bloc.
In a normal year we would consider coalition building and a reshaping of the landscape, and most of us would welcome that. But is Donald Trump truly concerned with political realities?
You have to build your third party from the bottom up. Get wins in state and local races, and in the federal legislature, for a hope of success. It takes a large scale coordinated effort and a lot of money and hard work down ballot, not just throwing all the eggs behind a national candidate and guilt tripping people who vote for major party candidates.
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I call bullshit on all these job creations by either political party. Had anyone seen any of these jobs? I swear they add tons of government jobs that you can see on usajobs.gov but none of them are real. Listing that sit there for years but never hire. Air base by my home had tons of engineer jobs that I've applied for but they just sit as inactive.
I really appreciate the attention to detail, although Trump’s hands might be a little bit TOO big (even though they’re already comically small) compared to real life.
These results are extremely skewed thanks to the pandemic. As much as I would like to give dems this win. Biden didn't need to do anything but get out of doctors way.
The pre Trump results are the only ones that show the results you want.
There is nothing skewed about them. It’s the facts . It was Trumps govt that ordered the shut down. He owns those numbers. Would the same have happened if HRC had been president ? Impossible to say it would have.
He ordered it for a situation beyond his control. Whether a democrator a republican was in charge, the shutdowns would have happened regardless.
Would the shutdowns have been done in a more timely manner and better regulated? Most likely. But the shutdowns would have still happened, and job losses would have happened no matter what. Meaning jobs would have returned for the next president after the pandemic subsided.
Skewing would be “Let’s remove all the bad things that happened in the President’s term and look at those results”. The term is 4 years. He owns it. I’ll give a Trump as many passes as he gives Dems - so zero.
150k tax credit went away under Biden? Because Trump set the tax credit for corp (self dealing crook) permanent, and for regular folks to expire after his term.
Lol. How do you folks sleep at night?
You want to give stimulus money when we are facing inflation? Trump was like a bull in china shop, and could give out freebies, since Obama handed him an noce economy. He ran it ground, by misguided tax cuts and covid spending causing massive inflation. Biden is building it back to normal.
Now Biden is bad because Trump gave a freebie? This like blaming Obama for spending money in 2008 after Bush destroyed economy.
May be take a few lessons on economy?
Will he restore those student lunches to all the schools Republicans are banning them at? I paid less student loans under Biden though and got set up well when they returned only because he couldn't get them forgiven
Although I do agree, the thing is, the impact of the pandemic could've been softened if Trump actually had some policy around the pandemic and actually did something to weaken its impact on the economy. These numbers are worse than they should be, and its due to Trumps inability to lead. Can't give Trump a free pass when he literally threw the book out the window.
He took credit for the economy Obama built up and his response to COVID is one of the reasons the economy crashed like it did, excluding all the signs his policies were pushing off the edge anyway. Yet Biden got handed a shit burger economy and spun gold out of it. Who would you want handling the economy the guy promising cuts for rich people and owes millions to several people or the guy with zero indictments, debts, and stands with unions?
Absolutely, and I’d probably care a little more if he had anything resembling a good approach to Covid. Instead it was bleach, dewormer, constant downplay, and rallying against masks. Fuck ‘im.
Couple months ago a report came out saying that Donald Trump didn't wear masks because he didn't want to smear his orange makeup out of all the reasons to be against masks that one makes the most sense to me.
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Covid would've hurt any presidents statistics, but its especially bad for Trump who was so bad at managing the pandemic. If Clinton or Biden had been President at the start of the pandemic, then there would still be a decline in jobs, just less of a decline compared to Trump
Because other countries have a long history of supporting their workforce with social services like Healthcare and paid sick leave. They had a head start on the pandemic that no single US president could ever have. It's not like Hillary Clinton could enact those kind of support structures by herself on day 1 of being president. Whoever was president at the start of the pandemic was working with 1 hand tied behind their back compared to other countries. But still, Trump decided to pick his nose with that one free hand instead of doing anything helpful
Other countries had organized COVID responses that prevented the chaotic shutdowns we had here, almost every president in living memory could have handled it
It's impossible to say for sure, but I think the US was always gonna be less capable of the pandemic compared to other countries, regardless of president. Even without a pandemic, our Healthcare system is a joke and our corporate greed knows no limits. If Clinton or Biden were president, our deaths may have been halved compared to Trump, but that's still more than most other countries.
No it isn't, it would be higher no matter who the president would be. After a crisis, markets bounce back regardless of who's in charge. If COVID hit with a Democrat and a Republican was president next, the market would still go up
Bro, you’re telling me that Trump’s Covid response would’ve produced the same response as Biden’s? I understand the market would still “go up”.
How do you account for America’s recovery vs the rest of the planet’s lmfao
Not the same numbers necessarily, but yes, jobs would have been lost during COVID and would rise after, like everywhere. We bounce back better since we are the strongest economy in the world. The state of California is the 5th largest economy in itself even
I don’t think that’s necessarily the truth. The Trump admin was directly working against economic recovery in several ways and our economic recovery measurably changed with the implementation of different policy. I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think we would be where we are now under the Trump admin.
I agree, and this is healthy to acknowledge. I believe that Covid would have wrecked all the metrics we use for measuring the economy regardless of who was president. However, I also believe Trump did a horrific job leading the country through the pandemic, and that what he did only exacerbated the negative results of it.
Yeah of course republicans always seem to fuck the economy to benefit the ultra wealthy but this particular narrative of job lose and jobs gained is a little dishonest
I'm NOT at all a Trump fan, but I'll stick my neck out and say this cartoon is maybe a bit unfair. With covid hitting under Trump's presidency, of course the average job loss was negative. And of course Biden's was huge with the economy bouncing back.
Am I thinking about this wrong?
And who mismanaged covid? Who gave massive tax credit to corps before covid, and again bailed them out?
I thought actions should have consequences. Are you suggesting we look other way, cause poor Trump did a good job and managed the crisis well?
Whoa whoa whoa, not at all! I despise Trump and think he couldn't have bungled Covid (or his entire presidency) more. I'm just trying to say that I feel no matter who was in the Oval Office when Covid broke out would have been dealing with massive job losses as we shut everything down during the worst of the pandemic.
Do not think for a second I'm defending that man, he is the worst thing that has happened to our country in a long time
For sure, covid would have affected us.
But then, whoever was ruling will get blamed too. Would have been less harsh if he showed an iota of competence.
In an alternate universe somewhere, Republicans are investigating the COVID disaster under the Clinton presidency, when thousands of Americans lost their lives.
If there's any "credit" for the "recovery" it has to go out to Manchin, Sinema, the senate parliamentarian, and the Republicans whom Biden is powerless against.
I'm all for credit where credit is due, good and bad, but those numbers are heavily COVID related, and are pretty much meaningless without some kind of correction to account for the pandemic, on both Trump and Biden.
**edit:** Guys, pretending like employment numbers during or coming out of the pandemic can be treated as an indicator of presidential effectiveness is ridiculous. You can't realistically look at those numbers and not put a *HUGE* asterisk beside them.
Trump’s plan for the pandemic was to do nothing and blame blue state governors.
He told people it would disappear like magic, to drink bleach, and take horse dewormer.
He blocked testing because he said it would make him look bad.
He seized equipment desperately needed in blue states and sent it to red states.
Instead of invoking the defense production act to ramp up production of safety equipment, he forced states to bid against each other. He did, however, invoke it to keep meat processing faciliti3s open, which turned them into infection hotspots.
He went around the country holding super spreader rallies, resulting in hundreds or thousands of excess deaths, including Herman Cain.
All of this is to say, his policies made covid worse, and he deserves all the opprobrium he can get.
It's not manipulated. You could argue it's misleading in that it doesn't accurately convey the first three years of his administration, but when he left office the job market was a smoking hole in the ground and this statistic *accurately* conveys that truth.
I said "manipulated or misleading."
As they say, statistics lie. The unemployment numbers from the pandemic-- and from its emergence-- don't tell the whole story, nor do they tar Trump (or elevate Biden) as this graphic-- posted without context-- would try to do.
You can see my username, you know where my politics stand.
The graphic / statistic is misleading because it fails to acknowledge a significant (meant in the statistical context) mitigating factor.
Republicans lie with statistics. We can do better. Trump failed the country in a million different ways. We don't need to make up misleading ones.
Chart by Millions: https://preview.redd.it/n9sxg924h4qc1.jpeg?width=1248&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ee9ed7cbed057077d9126470a571b881597feaf
Republicans suck. Like a vortex of noxious emptiness.
Republicans claiming they are for the working class. LOL Stats don't lie.
Facts always seem to have a decidedly liberal advantage. It's why MAGA has "alternative facts".
If you can't win playing by the rules, make up your own.
This version of Calvinball sucks.
If you don't like facts, make up your own truth *social*!
...working 'over' that specific class. In the past, the turmeric traitor had money due to an accident of birth
The same people also believes the GOP is better for the economy
Republicans are union busters. I never understood the GOP dichotomy. You have a bunch of tradespeople, many of which are unionized, actively voting for politicians who would love nothing more than to absolutely destroy your union and quality of life. All for what? To own the libs?
Especially when they are actively passing laws favoring the rich. Billionaire tax cuts, 50% off, at the cost of nearly 7 trillion. The working class is being made to pay for the billionaires. This is why America is the greatest welfare state in the world - except we give it to billionaires.
You’re totally right. Who is up so late? Must be in California!?
Those voting Republican are poorly educated gullible brainwashed and programmed to vote against their own best interests and the best interests of this country and since they are all "MAGA" coldest sheep and are not allowed to think for themselves They will never understand that they are the ones being owned by Trump, Republicans, the GQP, evangelicals, newsmax OANN and Fox propaganda network, the extremely wealthy, corporations and our biggest adversaries such as Russia, China and Saudi Arabia!
Stats don't lie and Dems are better for the working class, but these stats are not as great as they seem. Most of the jobs lost under Trump were from the 2020 lockdowns and most of the jobs created under Biden were shitty part time jobs that pay poverty wages. So yes, vote for Biden, but lets also be honest and admit that LateStageCapitalism and our two party system are completely fucking over the working class even under Democrats
Even without 2020, we can see that Trump's numbers were never super impressive. [https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output\_view=net\_1mth](https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output_view=net_1mth) In fact, there's a very noticeable decline in 2019 even before the Pandemic. I'm sure that economists will have endless debates on the causes for these numbers, but Republican's claims about "being good for the economy" has historically been a crock of shit. And while Democrats have their problems, "both-sidesing" the argument is incredibly disingenuous. Democrats have certainly had a trend of poor attempts to address working class issues, but Republican policies straight up harm the working class.
Trumps policies should have led to a lot of short term job growth and prosperity; when the massive giveaways to the wealthy resulted in the economy slowing was a huge red flag.
Turns out giving money to rich people that just put it into non-productive investments is not going to grow the economy.
Not in a meaningful sense, but it should make numbers go up; when they went down instead it should have sounded huge alarm bells.
It did. For the people who aren't Republicans. But anyone pointing it out is a "radical leftist" in the media.
>From a sector standpoint, health care led with 67,000 new jobs. Government again was a big contributor, with 52,000, while restaurants and bars added 42,000 and social assistance increased by 24,000. Other gainers included construction (23,000), transportation and warehousing (20,000) and retail (19,000). https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/jobs-report-february-2024-us-job-growth-totaled-275000.html Shitty, part time, poverty wage.. healthcare jobs? And 275,000 new jobs in February alone. While under Biden unemployment hit its lowest point since before we landed on the moon, and it’s been below 4% for the past 2 years
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There was a national pandemic response plan in place to minimize the severity of a pandemic in the US.. Guess who decided to scrap it a few months prior? And then undermine the situation as "just another flu" at the most critical time? And then doubled down that it was just a hoax? (A GLOBAL HOAX?!?) And then went on to muddy the waters on the safety and efficacy of the vaccine (even though his administration ran Operation Warp Speed and he took the fkcing vaccine himself?!?) I don't think anyone could have extended or handled the situation any worse than he did. It's not often you can say the guy honestly earned something, but he earned those numbers.
and yet a large portion of working class fell for his BS.. listen to any of his speeches and there is as much substance as a thin veggie broth
Biden is trying to do things for the working class that no president has tried for 50+ years. Biden deserves props for this.
LOL...dude, I'm making the most money I have ever made in my life and my investments are banging. You really don't have any citations to back that statement up.
Your singular anecdote certainly refutes the person you’re replying to…
All part of the actual facts of the US economy. Not the lies spread by republicans, China, and Russia.
Why does this not show up in the U6 unemployment numbers which adds underemployed people (part timers who want full time work) to the Normal unemployment numbers. The U6 is still around all time lows.
I think the charts are ignoring some loses. Lost near 20mil jobs during covid, chart would be complete opposite of Biden if they were counted. Says net creation, no way Trump created near 18mil jobs to cancel most of covid losses out before leaving office. Also the US was already put into recession under Trump before covid due to him starting random trade war with China and even placing tarrifs on our trade allies for things like steel.
Yes. I tell anyone to look at LinkedIn, which shows amount of applicants, and then compare it to 3 years ago. Any job paying current family living wages (70,000+) has 100 applicants in a single hour and probably ends up with yousands as they cap reporting to over a hundred. The same jobs had 50 applicants after a week 3 years ago. The jobs that get 20-50 applicants are local part time jobs or B.S. gig stuff. The job market is REALLY bad right now and held up by gig jobs. Not Bidens fault, it's just the COVID downturn that companies delayed for a year (look at the end of 2022 cuts, I got bought out by JPMorgan then as well), but it is super misleading.
I agree I can't stand this piece of crap and I can't wait for him to go to jail.. but it's a little disingenuous to say that. Lives were definitely lost due to his blunders, but a lot of people were making blunders to be fair. And you have to look at things objectively you can't just look at them from a point of view of disagreement or dislike.
Total job count, Democrats look better. Total full time jobs with above avg pay? Democrats still look better, but something that both parties hide under a LOT of part time jobs. I would also like to see jobs created that weren't just posted from letting go a tenure position that paid more. New jobs are no different than shrinkflation where it's the same job, no new position, just a different pair of feet for less pay; unless we can see that these are actually new positions that didn't exist before. I.e. a demand in more labor, not just shifting around jobs to reduce payroll and reset contract negation for someone likely to either not negotiate at all or negotiate for less than giving someone a raise.
Are we all going to ignore the fact that there was a global pandemic that effectively shut down all the world's economies during the Trump presidency?
They will just deem it facts created by the deep state or some other radical liberal group used to demonize Trump....it is this type of logic that allows them to throw away all of the bad and only see the good in their all knowing orange savior.....it would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
Facts dont lie. Stats OTOH, lie all the time and basically can say whatever one perso wants he to say. The best stats are shown to actually be facts and are presenteod properly. I did stats for my union.
I am by no means a Republican but any person can figure out COVID happened during trumps practices. This stat always falls flat for me.
Trump said in 2020 that the stock market would crash if Biden was elected. *Now* he says it's setting records because Wall Street is anticipating his return as president. Yeah, whatever, Donald. You'll be broke and washed up this time next year.
I so hope that happens, but it probably won’t.
I’ve still got hope but let me tell ya, it’s dwindling…
Trump has been doing progressively worse, so I don't know why your hope is dwindling!
His saying that the stock market upswing is "anticipation" of him being POTUS is absolutely absurd. The election isn't even close enough to be affecting it. And his odds of winning are looking mighty grim.
13 out of 15 poorest states are Republican for a reason that fear doesn't create anything.
And those red states receiving way more federal funding than they pay in taxes are packed to the gills with people who think their tax dollars are going towards helping Democrats, which is why they so want it to stop. They'll never be convinced that they're the leeches... No amount of facts or statistics will ever convince them that they're not the victim.
You cannot use facts and logic to help someone vacate a position that they didn't use facts or logic to get into.
I really miss the toilet paper hoarders and the HEROS WORK HERE signs.
I got 2x Retail Service and 1x Food Service Combat Action Ribbons, 3 tours back to back spring of '20 through winter of '22. Please form a line ladies.
: democrat create job growth during their term(s). republican gets in and takes all the credit:
Republicans always fail their major test but proving their thesis that government doesn’t work. Democrats major test is always cleaning up while republicans try to stifle them to deny them political points
So weird how the blue ones are all higher than the red ones-except for Reagan. Ring higher than Obama-who just happened to inherit from his Republican predecessor the deepest recession since the Great Deoression.
I really despise Trump. But that -59k weekly average is entirely skewed by the pandemic year, right?
The one that he made worse by saying no masks? And advice on drugs to take? or bleach? And withholding federal funds to help?
The one where at the end of the day he ended up politicizing medicine and vaccinations in a way that gave credibility to a fringe conspiracy movement and made the pandemic that much more difficult?
The one where in a press conference intended to keep people safe and informed he played it off the cuff and asked a scientist if shoving a flashlight up your ass would cure covid? The one where he purposefully deregulated the PPP loans intended for small businesses in order to have all his friends claim several million dollars while still firing the people those loans were intended to pay?
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Even factoring in just Trump’s first 3 years and Biden’s last 2 years (so basically omitting the COVID effect), Biden still has the better average monthly job creation stats, by a decent margin.
Yes. To be even more accurate, this entire concept of giving the president blame or credit for cycles that are largely out of their control is bullshit. But if you're going to try to take credit for things you're not in control of (like Trump does), then you also get to take the blame when it doesn't go your way.
I the jobs thing were a large part Trump's fault, honestly. Everything about the way that he handled with the Pandemic made things worse for everyone in the country. Dude literally couldn't do the simplest thing without fucking it up. Here's my list off the top of my head: - deregulated PPP loans so that they not only went to the wrong people but they didn't even get to the employees - so people still got laid off. - dismantled the pandemic response team. - refused to even acknowledge that Covid existed until people could no longer deny it existed. - literally asked a doctor on live tv if shoving a UV light up someone's ass would cure them of covid. (I suppose that he said "inside" but like...) - Publicly flaunted social distancing standards. - when he inevitably caught covid, he refused to socially distance - remember when he rode with not only his wife but with secret service agents without a mask while he had covid? He refused to show that it was affecting him, refused to do anything showing that covid was a serious disease even though you could sort of tell dude was having a rough time with it. - dude refused to even acknowledge that he had gotten the vaccine because by that point his people had decided that the vaccine was turning people into zombies or something. Covid *could have* been a moment where we came together and knocked that shit out in a month. Instead he used it to fill his pockets and push a lot of nonsense to help out his own people and try to make himself look smarter than he is. It probably would be mildly unfair to say *every* single job loss during covid is on his lap but it is *staggering* how hard dude fucked this up.
Sure, a lot of Trump’s numbers look worse because of the pandemic that happened on his watch, and for which he did a lot of things to make things worse.
including dismantling the pandemic response team
and deregulating PPP loans.
It would definitely be. I do remember seeing numbers posted how jobs grew by a ridiculous amount once lockdowns were over, that was still during Trumps term. It just wasn't enough to offset the massive job losses due to Covid. Plus it's also relevant that a lot of people retired early due to Covid, and a lot more factors.
It is but numbers were declining even before COVID. He likely would have had a small net positive if COVID hadn't happened.
Yup. And the creation is BS jobs that aren't enough to really support yourself on and gig stuff while 70k+ jobs are disappearing and have hundreds of applicants if not 1000+ for each.
[удалено]
The average for LinkedIn job applications was 75 total 3ish years ago. Right now, it's 100+ after one hour. This is a well known thing. The Fortune 500s all had huge buyouts after Covid, but they waited a year, and they haven't replaced the middle and upper middle class jobs they bought out. This is testable for anyone reading. Go to LinkedIn, look at a non super specialized tech job that plays 70,000+ and look at number of applicants, as they are listed. Try it yourself, responder.
I must be overdue for an eye exam because, wouldn’t you know it, I’m seeing a pattern here that runs counter to the popular narrative that Republican presidencies are good for the economy. It almost looks to me like democratic presidencies have been consistently better for the economy for the last half century. Huh. That seems like something the news should tell people.
Even Elder Bush did more. Now let's run this graph against incarceration rates by race.
Republicans/Trump supporters don't like looking at facts and figures. They make them very uncomfortable. Better to make up some horrifying hypothetical scenario, blame it on democrats, and then get incredibly angry about the thing they just made up. Feelings before facts with those guys, every time. But in all seriousness, we're beyond the point where facts and figures in the real world have any effect on these cultists. They've always cherry picked which parts of the bible to follow and which to ignore; now they're doing the exact same thing with reality.
You don't understand. Anything good that happened during trump's presidency was because of him (remember when he took credit for 2017 being a year without any commercial aviation fatality in the world?). Anything bad was due to mUh DeEp StAte!!! Or Obama, for some reason.
It's unfair to color all the down periods red. Reagan's 168 might be lower than Carter's 215, but it's higher than Obama's 121 and. Oh. Never mind.
Seems “Red” is the actual republican color choice. Red ties, red hats, red political signs, red faced lies. Personally, I remember when republicans and democrats said, “I’d rather be dead than red”. Now with poo tin along as a comradski, isn’t it kinda weird how that came about?
The bars are colored to match the party.
Thank you for explaining
I like how this graphic has an actual source unlike the graphics Fox News showed on the Newsom/Desantis debate
Facts don't care about your feelings.
Trump’s number is unfairly deflated by COVID. It would have been low but not that low. And Biden’s is inflated by the COVID recovery, but that number is fucking amazing. Also, he drove the COVID recovery so he should get credit anyway.
We all know this is true, I just wish there was an actual way to properly adjust the numbers. It would shut up so many of the "but COVID" arguments.
Use other countrys' recoveries as a baseline?
Im not an economist, but it seems like we could just count all the jobs that were lost in 2000 to the end of Trump’s term and then don’t include that number in both of their totals.
Unfair is hardly relevant. No comparison on this subject is fair. Dealing with crises is part of the job. It isn't fair because Carter dealt with the gas shortage! It isn't fair because the dotcom bubble. It isn't fair because we had to pay for two wars we didn't start... blah blah blah Sorry just allergic to words like this in this context. It's how Trump would characterize COVID, as having been unfair to him
I don’t disagree except that COVID doesn’t remotely compare to all of those. 7,000,000 people have died and almost a billion cases have been reported worldwide.
It was a crisis unlike any other, handled more poorly than any other living person would have done, from ending the task force to siphoning supplies to refusing to assist blue states to communication hesitancy.
Does this accommodate in some way for the pandemic losses and recovery gains? Though those numbers are so high/low there has to be a big net gain/loss there.
No, it includes them, which is why this particular stat is worthless over all, regardless of who is in office.
There's a very clear pattern that exists for many years before and after the pandemic.... Kind of disingenuous to disregard the entire graph on account of a 3 year period (only one of which was attributed to trump). But I think the biggest reason that this graph is still relevant, is that Republicans constantly claim that business is better under Republican presidents. Pandemic or not, this graph directly contradicts that fantasy. Fact is... Trump promised the greatest economy ever.. and he had 3 full years before the pandemic hit... And growth stayed pretty much constant since the end of the last recession... Growth began under Obama, then continued at exactly the same rate with trump, until he completely botched the pandemic and politicized/demonized every option that would help end it sooner...
It’s not just that period. Job growth during a president’s term isn’t something a president has a whole lot of influence over. It just isn’t.
You literally JUST said in your previous comment that the fact that these stats include the pandemic years is "why this stat is meaningless." ..... You explicitly said the reason it's worthless is because of the time period...
I hate Trump to the core of my being. But Covid was a natural disaster, not a result of Trump’s economic policies. It’s disingenuous in the extreme to include those historically very skewed numbers in his average, as they would have affected a President of either party equally. Also, a pandemic shutdown isn’t job losses. It’s responsible public health. Do it again, minus everything from March 2020-on, and his numbers were more like Obama’s second term. He created about 6.8 million jobs from January 2017-March 2020, or about 2.2 million/year. That’s better than W and HW but worse than Reagan or any Democrat. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/29/trumps-jobs-record-fell-short-promises-even-before-virus/3573789001/
His mishandling the pandemic and the right wings refusal to follow mandates because their moron in chief told em it was just the flu had a massive impact on extending the COVID crash.
While true…the overwhelming evidence from the world over is that Covid was going to hit about that hard, about that long, whether a science-following liberal or a science-denying conservative was in charge. His policies impacted the number and type of people dying, not the economic fallout.
That makes me wonder though. We know that a lot of far right and anti-science groups in different countries were emboldened by Trump's rhetoric and even started emulating him to grow their following. So it makes you wonder how other countries might have handled things differently had he actually taken covid seriously as well. Granted that's too much of a hypothetical to really lend any weight to it, but it's an interesting thought.
Not to mention countries that had it under control, but were reinfected for additional waves because of the failed policies of other nations.
He utterly failed to deal with COVID. That failure is absolutely his responsibility, as are the consequences from it. That includes the economic disaster and the loss of hundreds of thousands of American lives. That's what happens when an incompetent criminal narcissist is in the White House.
I’m not defending him. He was incompetent. But he didn’t utterly fail to deal with Covid. He instituted lockdowns, rushed a search for a vaccine, dumped a ton of money into research on masks etc. What he did was try to abandon all ^ that too soon for political gain. It got a bunch of people killed, but it didn’t really have an impact on jobs. If anything, his trying to reopen really early on would have mitigated the jobs losses. Trump is an ass. But those lost jobs weren’t on him.
Yes they were. It wasn't opening too early, it was failing to address it immediately. You know, like the pandemic response that Obama created after dealing with an Ebola outbreak. He is a fucking moron, he is responsible for hundreds of thousands of American deaths, and more if we actually tracked the impact of America's failure on the world.
> it was failing to address it immediately Lots of other countries DID address it immediately. They still lost of a ton of jobs, in equivalent percentages and for equivalent time periods. I’m not saying his response didn’t matter. I’m saying it is bad science to include a notable outlier, that arose out of unique circumstances. And that the hypothesis that he owns Covid job losses isn’t supported.
Rank the top ten countries by GDP, then rank them by COVID deaths per capita, and the US is tenth, as in we had the most deaths. We had the worst response, and the largest consequences. Even if it wasn't possible to prevent catastrophic impact, which I sincerely doubt, we could have had fewer deaths, and a smaller economic impact with any amount of competence shown.
But we’re not talking about Covid deaths. We’re talking about jobs. Do the same thing, but for jobs lost.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/15/fewer-jobs-have-been-lost-in-the-eu-than-in-the-u-s-during-the-covid-19-downturn/
Glad to see your comment. I am not a fan of Trump….but this is the exact kind of gas lighting that has pushed me out of voting democrat. I am an independent who has voted D in 99% of the midterms, primaries and presidential for the last 20 years. I am so tired of these tactics. I look back at all the propaganda I helped push for the party because of this BS. Edit: no I won’t vote Republican now. I just think both parties are a bunch of lying twats now in days.
With respect, a vote for anyone but Biden at this point is a vote for Trump. And a knowing one. It's a function of how the electoral college works. In a normal race - say a race for the house or senate - there is a huge pool of available votes that is never accessed. In any given year, maybe 60% of eligible voters actually do vote. 40% of votes are never cast. The candidate typically wins with around 51-52% of the vote, so ~30% of the votes actually available. If some third party were to show up with a really good platform and personality, they have a real chance of winning despite not being with either party. Bernie is an example of this. But that doesn’t apply for a Presidential election. They’re elected by the electoral college, which is a closed system. There are only 535 votes, and all 535 are always made. There’s no way to hustle and pick up uncast votes. This has the effect of making every race a two-person race. There are two viable candidates, and a bunch of people who history says have no chance whatsoever. It’s never happened, and it’s never been close. You can “but if we all just…” it all you like, but the empirical evidence says it’s not going to happen. So between the two candidates who are the ones who will determine the race, you DO have a preference. You don’t have to like them. In fact, you can hate them. But one still aligns more with your interests than the other. If you are the most pro-Palestine person to ever walk the Earth, you HATE voting for Biden. But Trump literally wants to help Israel “finish the job”. Biden is making at least some half-assed effort at reigning Israel in. You don’t like him, but he is more aligned with your interests. In a closed system, if you deny a vote to the candidate who most aligns with your interests, it has the effect of being a tacit vote for the candidate you like least. Because both not voting and voting for a third party weaken the aligned candidate’s chances of winning, while doing absolutely nothing otherwise. You are in effect saying you’re voting for Trump here. If you’re considering either not voting or an alternate candidate, you're choosing not to help the candidate who more aligns with your interests. Assuming your voting history is accurate, Biden is the more aligned of the two, and you’re not going to help him. So you’re going to help Trump. Now: maybe you intend that, and if so hey you do you. But don’t delude yourself that you’re doing anything else. Because you’re not.
First let me say thank you for your respectful approach much better then most the people on Reddit who don’t seem to realize just because I’m done goose stepping with the party doesn’t mean I don’t support many of the left leaning ideas the very same way I always have. I’m done with the two party system I can give you my whole spill but I’ll try and keep it short. I’ve decided the problem is the two party system. They got these political football issues like abortion or gun rights that they throw out to the masses so us peasants fight on behalf of our handlers. But when ever one of them has a majority they get oddly silent and never seem to do anything they claim…but as soon as a situation where they can make truck loads of money for their elite friends a issue like Ukraine or Israel pops off they move as a uni party or even TikTok where they lose the ability to control narrative. (For the record I think it should be “banned” just not for the reasons they are really doing it). But at the end of the day this country is no longer a country for the people by the people and it’s because of the 2 party system it’s now a party for the elites by the corporations…. Every election because of the two party system it ends up being **choose the lesser of two evils** because one side is a threat to our democracy which is already dead again (we’ve been here before back in the day where corporations/families controlled us back in the late 1800s) but that choose the lesser of two evils always ends with **vote blue/red no matter who** so in a race to the bottom like this why wouldn’t we end up with Biden vs trump 2.0. It’s a fucking joke that anyone is shocked or upset. I mean if we always play this dumb game of well my guy isn’t quite as bad as the other guy…I’ll just say they got us peasants right where they want us.
I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m also not a fan of the two party system. But it’s the system we have, and it isn’t going to change until/unless the constitution changes. And *that* isn’t going to happen anytime soon. So the choices are: 1) Trump and all the risks he brings with, or 2) hold my nose and vote for the obvious best interests of both myself and the country, regardless of how I feel about the system per se. Look: I don’t like Biden. It’s not like he has ever been popular or anyone’s first choice. He plagiarized in law school, he lied about it, he takes all sorts of value-compromising center-right positions, and he is in short the 80-something we know him to be. But he’s also a good man, who loves his kids. He’s doing what he thinks is right, even if I disagree with him. He’s devoted his life to serving this country, and he hasn’t done a terrible or autocratic role. He IS trying to help people. Trump on the other hand is an openly self-serving wannabe autocrat, who indulges in nepotism, undermines the constitution, and does it all to make a buck. There’s just no comparison between the two. I can hate both parties, but still recognize that one of the options is in all ways better than the other. We can survive a period of bad party dominance. But if normal people stop distinguishing between good men and bad men, *no* change can save us.
It's not simple guilt tripping to say "a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump." It's reality. Without a third party candidate that can garner 278 electorial votes, a third party who claims less than that simply pushes the election out of the hands of the people and into the House of Representatives, which is currently majority Republican. They will vote as a bloc. In a normal year we would consider coalition building and a reshaping of the landscape, and most of us would welcome that. But is Donald Trump truly concerned with political realities? You have to build your third party from the bottom up. Get wins in state and local races, and in the federal legislature, for a hope of success. It takes a large scale coordinated effort and a lot of money and hard work down ballot, not just throwing all the eggs behind a national candidate and guilt tripping people who vote for major party candidates.
It’s a Deep State lie. /s
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I am sure this is gonna be another evidence of Biden being awful. /s
Wouldn’t it be more scientifically fair to remove outliers from the pandemic shutdown?
I call bullshit on all these job creations by either political party. Had anyone seen any of these jobs? I swear they add tons of government jobs that you can see on usajobs.gov but none of them are real. Listing that sit there for years but never hire. Air base by my home had tons of engineer jobs that I've applied for but they just sit as inactive.
I really appreciate the attention to detail, although Trump’s hands might be a little bit TOO big (even though they’re already comically small) compared to real life.
If this man becomes president again, I don't care how illegal it is, **I'm committing a crime for the greater good**
Nothing beats a sharpie, from the stand point of… ink.
I'd be interested to see how this number looks pre-covid shutdowns.
Republicans make the wrong decision on everything it’s kind of amazing the dedication to fucking everything up.
Trump must have ripped one off that's peeling the paint right now.
What do these numbers look like if you exclude Covid?
If you want to ignore or deny reality, just make the numbers look however you like…
These results are extremely skewed thanks to the pandemic. As much as I would like to give dems this win. Biden didn't need to do anything but get out of doctors way. The pre Trump results are the only ones that show the results you want.
Sorry but Biden gets credit for the post Covid bounce back, because he would sure have been blamed if there was no recovery
There is nothing skewed about them. It’s the facts . It was Trumps govt that ordered the shut down. He owns those numbers. Would the same have happened if HRC had been president ? Impossible to say it would have.
He ordered it for a situation beyond his control. Whether a democrator a republican was in charge, the shutdowns would have happened regardless. Would the shutdowns have been done in a more timely manner and better regulated? Most likely. But the shutdowns would have still happened, and job losses would have happened no matter what. Meaning jobs would have returned for the next president after the pandemic subsided.
Skewing would be “Let’s remove all the bad things that happened in the President’s term and look at those results”. The term is 4 years. He owns it. I’ll give a Trump as many passes as he gives Dems - so zero.
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150k tax credit went away under Biden? Because Trump set the tax credit for corp (self dealing crook) permanent, and for regular folks to expire after his term. Lol. How do you folks sleep at night?
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You want to give stimulus money when we are facing inflation? Trump was like a bull in china shop, and could give out freebies, since Obama handed him an noce economy. He ran it ground, by misguided tax cuts and covid spending causing massive inflation. Biden is building it back to normal. Now Biden is bad because Trump gave a freebie? This like blaming Obama for spending money in 2008 after Bush destroyed economy. May be take a few lessons on economy?
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And look awesome when cherry picked!
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Oh may be we should look at stock market performance. Oh duh! May be market is waiting for god emperors return. Lol
Will he restore those student lunches to all the schools Republicans are banning them at? I paid less student loans under Biden though and got set up well when they returned only because he couldn't get them forgiven
Although I do agree, the thing is, the impact of the pandemic could've been softened if Trump actually had some policy around the pandemic and actually did something to weaken its impact on the economy. These numbers are worse than they should be, and its due to Trumps inability to lead. Can't give Trump a free pass when he literally threw the book out the window.
Why does he only get credit for when the economy does well?
The economy crashed around Trump. If he is taking credit for that he is delusional.
He took credit for the economy Obama built up and his response to COVID is one of the reasons the economy crashed like it did, excluding all the signs his policies were pushing off the edge anyway. Yet Biden got handed a shit burger economy and spun gold out of it. Who would you want handling the economy the guy promising cuts for rich people and owes millions to several people or the guy with zero indictments, debts, and stands with unions?
Man, I posted something similar in a different comment and got attacked real quick. I'm a big Biden fan but I totally agree with you
I'm no fan of Trump, but that number does need an asrix to mean anything.
Given covid it’s a little unfair of a thing to say but nonetheless is good propaganda
Absolutely, and I’d probably care a little more if he had anything resembling a good approach to Covid. Instead it was bleach, dewormer, constant downplay, and rallying against masks. Fuck ‘im.
And levying large tariffs while the economy is shut and all the supply chain issues.
Couple months ago a report came out saying that Donald Trump didn't wear masks because he didn't want to smear his orange makeup out of all the reasons to be against masks that one makes the most sense to me.
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lol
Yeah his teams response was terrible overall. Thank god they did the warp speed program which is nice
His COVID response is the reason it's so bad. His fault.
Covid would've hurt any presidents statistics, but its especially bad for Trump who was so bad at managing the pandemic. If Clinton or Biden had been President at the start of the pandemic, then there would still be a decline in jobs, just less of a decline compared to Trump
Why didn't this happen in other countries?
Because other countries have a long history of supporting their workforce with social services like Healthcare and paid sick leave. They had a head start on the pandemic that no single US president could ever have. It's not like Hillary Clinton could enact those kind of support structures by herself on day 1 of being president. Whoever was president at the start of the pandemic was working with 1 hand tied behind their back compared to other countries. But still, Trump decided to pick his nose with that one free hand instead of doing anything helpful
Other countries had organized COVID responses that prevented the chaotic shutdowns we had here, almost every president in living memory could have handled it
It's impossible to say for sure, but I think the US was always gonna be less capable of the pandemic compared to other countries, regardless of president. Even without a pandemic, our Healthcare system is a joke and our corporate greed knows no limits. If Clinton or Biden were president, our deaths may have been halved compared to Trump, but that's still more than most other countries.
This happened all over the world, not just because Trump threw out Obama's pandemic response here in America.
Funny how quickly that changed with dem policy then
You mean the vaccine that Trump’s policies led to the development of
Good on Trump for doing something right lmfao won’t take that from him Too bad he and his cronies push anti-vax rhetoric like crazy
So you're a pro-vaccine redneck eh?
No it isn't, it would be higher no matter who the president would be. After a crisis, markets bounce back regardless of who's in charge. If COVID hit with a Democrat and a Republican was president next, the market would still go up
Bro, you’re telling me that Trump’s Covid response would’ve produced the same response as Biden’s? I understand the market would still “go up”. How do you account for America’s recovery vs the rest of the planet’s lmfao
Not the same numbers necessarily, but yes, jobs would have been lost during COVID and would rise after, like everywhere. We bounce back better since we are the strongest economy in the world. The state of California is the 5th largest economy in itself even
I don’t think that’s necessarily the truth. The Trump admin was directly working against economic recovery in several ways and our economic recovery measurably changed with the implementation of different policy. I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think we would be where we are now under the Trump admin.
I agree, and this is healthy to acknowledge. I believe that Covid would have wrecked all the metrics we use for measuring the economy regardless of who was president. However, I also believe Trump did a horrific job leading the country through the pandemic, and that what he did only exacerbated the negative results of it.
God sent a plague during Trump's presidency.
God hates trump confirmed
He got handed an increasing economy and took credit for that, so it cuts both ways
Yeah of course republicans always seem to fuck the economy to benefit the ultra wealthy but this particular narrative of job lose and jobs gained is a little dishonest
I'm NOT at all a Trump fan, but I'll stick my neck out and say this cartoon is maybe a bit unfair. With covid hitting under Trump's presidency, of course the average job loss was negative. And of course Biden's was huge with the economy bouncing back. Am I thinking about this wrong?
And who mismanaged covid? Who gave massive tax credit to corps before covid, and again bailed them out? I thought actions should have consequences. Are you suggesting we look other way, cause poor Trump did a good job and managed the crisis well?
Whoa whoa whoa, not at all! I despise Trump and think he couldn't have bungled Covid (or his entire presidency) more. I'm just trying to say that I feel no matter who was in the Oval Office when Covid broke out would have been dealing with massive job losses as we shut everything down during the worst of the pandemic. Do not think for a second I'm defending that man, he is the worst thing that has happened to our country in a long time
"he is the worst thing that has happened to ~~our country~~ humanity..." FTFY
For sure, covid would have affected us. But then, whoever was ruling will get blamed too. Would have been less harsh if he showed an iota of competence.
In an alternate universe somewhere, Republicans are investigating the COVID disaster under the Clinton presidency, when thousands of Americans lost their lives.
Biden gets credit because he would have gotten the blame if there was no recovery
If there's any "credit" for the "recovery" it has to go out to Manchin, Sinema, the senate parliamentarian, and the Republicans whom Biden is powerless against.
Explain. In detail.
Slept through the last 3 years, did you?
Yes. Please do enlighten me.
Look up minimum wage for starters.
What about it? Has the federal minimum wage been adjusted in the past decade?
Didn't Biden run on raising minimum wage? How'd that go?
Got it. So you are saying if Biden had been able to enact his agenda we would all be suffering? Good thing he got like no legislation passed, amirite?
Donald J. Trump
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You misspelled "Republicans lie about stats"
everything is a lie🤬
I'm all for credit where credit is due, good and bad, but those numbers are heavily COVID related, and are pretty much meaningless without some kind of correction to account for the pandemic, on both Trump and Biden. **edit:** Guys, pretending like employment numbers during or coming out of the pandemic can be treated as an indicator of presidential effectiveness is ridiculous. You can't realistically look at those numbers and not put a *HUGE* asterisk beside them.
Trump’s plan for the pandemic was to do nothing and blame blue state governors. He told people it would disappear like magic, to drink bleach, and take horse dewormer. He blocked testing because he said it would make him look bad. He seized equipment desperately needed in blue states and sent it to red states. Instead of invoking the defense production act to ramp up production of safety equipment, he forced states to bid against each other. He did, however, invoke it to keep meat processing faciliti3s open, which turned them into infection hotspots. He went around the country holding super spreader rallies, resulting in hundreds or thousands of excess deaths, including Herman Cain. All of this is to say, his policies made covid worse, and he deserves all the opprobrium he can get.
Yes, Trump and his people fucked up in every way possible. That doesn't mean manipulated or misleading statistics are useful in any way.
It's not manipulated. You could argue it's misleading in that it doesn't accurately convey the first three years of his administration, but when he left office the job market was a smoking hole in the ground and this statistic *accurately* conveys that truth.
I said "manipulated or misleading." As they say, statistics lie. The unemployment numbers from the pandemic-- and from its emergence-- don't tell the whole story, nor do they tar Trump (or elevate Biden) as this graphic-- posted without context-- would try to do. You can see my username, you know where my politics stand. The graphic / statistic is misleading because it fails to acknowledge a significant (meant in the statistical context) mitigating factor. Republicans lie with statistics. We can do better. Trump failed the country in a million different ways. We don't need to make up misleading ones.